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S02.E10: The Man In The Box

The Crazed Spruce

By The Crazed Spruce
in Daredevil [V]

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Bec

Bec

That scene with Matt pretty much letting himself get pummelled by Fisk to prove his suspicions. Intense. And oh crap, now Fisk is going to investigate Matt. I had to remind myself "He doesn't know Matt is Daredevil, right?" But I guess he'll find out soon.

 

Thank goodness for Claire, you can always count on her to talk sense. LOL at her basically telling Matt "Get off the cross, we need the wood."

 

Hey, wasn't that assassin going after Elektra one of the dads from Switched at Birth?

 

Those patients were super creepy.

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FurryFury

FurryFury

(edited)

Hey, that dude with Elektra was pretty hot. Couldn't they at least make out a bit before all the fighting? 

 

I'm starting to really dig the Frank/Karen relationship. It took me by surprise, but he's so vulnerable with her, and sincere. In fact, more sincere than Matt.

 

At this point, I'm kinda more interested in this whole coverup/Blacksmith stuff than the Hand. Although the ending with the zombie-style patients was really cool.

 

Still don't care for Fisk.

 

Why the hell did Stick try to kill Elektra, but didn't do it with Matt?

Edited by FurryFury
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Cthulhudrew

Cthulhudrew

(edited)

Just started this episode, and perhaps my understanding of the legal system isn't exactly qualified to say so, but would the DA's office realistically have had anything to do with a drug bust? At least insofar as being the one to on giving orders to the police to clear or not clear a public space? Seems like something made up to me.

Edited by Cthulhudrew
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Chicago Redshirt

Chicago Redshirt

Just started this episode, and perhaps my understanding of the legal system isn't exactly qualified to say so, but would the DA's office realistically have had anything to do with a drug bust? At least insofar as being the one to on giving orders to the police to clear or not clear a public space? Seems like something made up to me.

I don't do criminal law, but it seems reasonable that prosecutors would be advised on a potential massive drug deal involving 3 different gang factions, and an ongoing operation involving an undercover police officer.

 

I would tend to think that something that massive would be done by the feds, rather than state prosecutors. 

 

Now, why the three factions would opt to meet in a public park seems loose.

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Mars477

Mars477

Now, why the three factions would opt to meet in a public park seems loose.

Holding a meeting in an open, public place makes it less likely that you'll be monitored by electronic surveillance like a bug.  Also, you'd think that the authorities, who wouldn't want to risk civilian casualties, wouldn't start a shootout in the middle of a public park.

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thuganomics85

thuganomics85

RIP, Reyes.  Figured it was only a matter of time, but I'm surprised that it looks like Frank didn't do it, but was set-up.  I guess either the Blacksmith got wind of this or Fisk really has reach outside of prison, and this is all part of his game.  Either way, looking forward to him and Karen running for the hills, since they're become a surprising fun duo and one of the best things about this season.

 

Speaking of duos, Matt and Fisk reunite!  Complete with such bonding moments like Matt threatening to make sure Vanessa never comes back to America again and Fisk bashing Matt's face into the table over and over again.  And now Fisk seems to be getting suspicious over that one punch Matt gave him, and is starting to investigate him.  Could he end up finding out who Matt really is?!

 

I totally figured the assassin (who really did look like Oscar Issac) was actually going to be part of Stick's crew instead of The Hand.  I guess Stick took Elektra's resignation pretty hard.  I guess this is going to lead towards her sticking around for now.

 

Always great to see Claire; especially when it involves her calling Matt out on his bullshit and his love to play the martyr.  Rosario Dawson just lights up the screen.

 

I guess after all the times Matt's gotten beaten up, it was about time for Foggy to get physically harmed.

 

Episodes ends with creepy children of the corn creeping, and ninjas climbing up a hospital with ropes.  Just another evening in Hell's Kitchen!

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Ottis

Ottis

Still don't care for Fisk.

 

 

He's the best thing about DD, IMO. Though I liked him better when he was also trying to clean up Hell's Kitchen, albeit in a more objectionable way. Now he seems intent on gaining power, for his own use, and as I posted near the end of last season, that makes him less interesting. Still, his motives and actions make sense and I like the intensity. And his honesty about it.

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FurryFury

FurryFury

(edited)

I know there are a lot of people who love Fisk. I just don't. I don't like him as a person, and I don't like him as a character. I actually don't even like the actor's work. Everything about Fisk feels pretentious and forced, like the writers wanted to make the show as close to a prestige drama as possible. The Vanessa stuff is ridiculous - we never see what exactly she loves about him. She doesn't have a personality, she doesn't have a backstory, she's just there to enrichen his story. He feels like a character tailored to men and viewers who love slow, ponderous, cable-style drama storytelling with a huge focus on manpain and relationships between men. I'm not one of them. I want something more dynamic, sincere and much less pretentious. Which is why Frank worked for me on so many levels and why I've almost dropped the show in season one because of Fisk (thank God I didn't!).

 

That said, pairing him with Frank this season worked pretty well, because it's Frank. Matt lost a lot in my eyes this year because of his behaviour, so his relationship with Fisk is like the last thing I wanted to see (OK, second last after the endless repetitive fights with mooks). But there were some real shades of Villain Sue trope with Fisk taking over the prison. Some of the events were really, really contrived.

 

Of course, I admit that my opinion's pretty subjective in this case.

Edited by FurryFury
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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

Love it when Claire shows up. Her snarky attitude to all the nonsense is so refreshing. And I loved her telling Matt to stop feeding his ever growing martyr complex. He's trying to bring himself round to thinking like Elektra and the Punisher; that all his efforts are for nothing because the bad guys just keep coming back.

The scene with Matt and Fisk was excellent. All that stillness and tension, then the explosion when Matt pushed the right button. I didn't expect Fisk to be such a big player in this season, and I'm quite pleasantly surprised.

I do like Karen's trajectory as a journalist. She's definitely growing, both in confidence and as a protagonist in the show. It's cool that her boss seems to have rediscovered his crusading zeal in the wake of Ben's death.

Hey, Elektra gets her signature weapons. Thanks, incompetent assassin guy! I'm guessing that trying to kill her is one of Stick's attempts at manipulating her to doing what he wants.

And suddenly the show becomes a horror, with those creepy fucking kids. Yeesh.

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Lady Calypso

Lady Calypso

So, I think it's fair to say that Fisk rattled Matt pretty badly this episode. I do think he was genuinely spooked when Fisk threatened both him and Foggy. Yes, it scared him into thinking that he needs to drop everything in his life and embrace the vigilante while burying the human side of him, but still. And Fisk touching the part of the lip where he was punched by Daredevil last season? He totally is on Matt's trail, and it won't take him long to figure out his secret identity. That's terrifying, and that is going to end up bad for Matt in the near future.

 

I loved Fisk last season, but getting a taste of Frank this season makes me like him less. I also don't like how quickly he rose to power. I would have preferred to see him struggling. We only got that for all of ten minutes, but he was still playing the long con. I guess I find that even with Fisk going to prison, he still hasn't lost anything. It's clear he'll get out by season's end, so all of this was really to stall. That's why I hope Matt makes good on his promise and as much as I enjoyed Vanessa, I hope she never steps foot into America, and New York, ever again. That would make Fisk lose...and get him angry, which would be interesting to see, at least. He would actually make mistakes for once. 

 

Oh, hi Gilles Marini! Oh....bye? He's really just a one off guest star? Disappointing. Also, I caught sight of Marini's stunt double several times in that fight sequence, which distracted me. At least, I'm pretty sure that was a stunt double. 

 

Man, that was some creepy children of the corn shit there. I knew something like that was going to happen. Run, Claire, run! Also, love Claire a lot and I am so happy we finally get Claire/Matt scenes. I loved them last season, and she always brings out the better in him, or at least tries. It's what made me understand Matt for the first time since Elektra showed up, at least. 

 

Karen! I still enjoy Karen, and I love how her and Frank are going to be teaming up, even for a short while. I knew he didn't kill Reyes or anyone else. Guns like that are not his style. I also hope Karen's new boss (I simply can't remember his name!) stays alive. He would be a person I would expect to be dead either this season or early next, and I'd rather he remained in the living. 

 

Very little Foggy this episode, but I mean, now he's a target for Fisk, so that's not good.

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

Not denying Fisk is a monster, but Matt knows he is a psycho, so bringing up Vanessa and the threat to keep her away from the US/Fisk made him look like a complete moron. He knows Fisk, so he should have anticipated getting the shit beat out of him.

 

Unless Matt likes pain, and after this season, I'm not so sure that isn't true!

 

But me, I like the crazy bastard (and think - evil or not - he is interesting), so I was glad to see him.

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Ottis

Ottis

He feels like a character tailored to men and viewers who love slow, ponderous, cable-style drama storytelling with a huge focus on manpain and relationships between men. I'm not one of them. I want something more dynamic, sincere and much less pretentious.

 

 

You're right, Fisk *is* pretentious - that's a key part of his character. It is how he justifies what he does, by believing he has the right answer(s). Or at least did in most of season 1. Not sure that's still true since he became more of a muh-ha-ha villain near the end of last season. Anyway, he is like Frasier as a supervillain, or a smarter Sideshow Bob. Everything Fisk does has a purpose and is part of his plan, except when he occasionally just loses his sh-t and kills a guy by his car, or beats a blind man. In a way, he has the best of both villain worlds - deliberate (as he was using Frank and then leaving him to die) AND sometimes crazy. I like his fussiness.

 

I don't get Vanessa, either, and honestly I pretty much erased the character in my head. She was important last season, when Fisk was still human and had the same goals as DD but a different way to get there. Now all that is left is remnants of that Fisk. Maybe putting him in jail actually wasn't the best idea. I think Fisk has evolved into someone different than the guy who was comforted by Vanessa. More of a straight bad guy. He just doesn't realize it, yet. It doesn't bode well for Vanessa.

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

Oh, I think Fisk was fooling himself even back in S1. He saw himself as this savior of Hell's Kitchen while his methods were of an "average" villain. So I actually think the end of S1 got that right.

 

Where I think Vanessa comes into play? Based on the very little I have read about her comics-wise, she seems to be Fisk's conscience and the remnants of his good side. (Which I think S1 showed to great effect.) So Matt threatening to keep her away seems symbolic of leaving Fisk without his crumbs of conscience.

 

All very symbolic and such.

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Actionmage

Actionmage

When Fisk was beating Matt up who -- as far as they know -- is a helpless blind man, I was like "stay classy, Fisk."

 

Nice to see I wasn't alone in that thought.  Still, for Fisk, he probably came out fine. He put hitch in Matt's step ( great physical reaction, Mr. Cox! ) and just got more cred as The Guy Who'll Take Down Anyone, Even Blind Folk.

 

Are we supposed to be getting lighter vibes of Karen/Matt with Karen/Frank?  Both men have saved her from worse men. Both had police and PR problems. I will say, that if I could pick a friend, Karen would be the one to find. She's a bloodhound and a mama bear. 

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Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

I am liking Fisk this season so far. Him running the prison is a lot more Kinpin-ish. I found last year he started as the kingpin but by the end of the season he was more of a giant baby throwing a temperature tantrum.

Also was that the Avenger's tower I saw in the skyline shot (to the left of the Empire State Building) when Elektra showed up at the little airport. It wasn't really in focus but it was a building with a bright point on top and a weird thing sticking out of the side.

The fight scene at the airport was cool though, but I am not really sure why Stick wanted to kill her, other than his just general asshole nature.

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AudienceofOne

AudienceofOne

I know there are a lot of people who love Fisk. I just don't. I don't like him as a person, and I don't like him as a character. I actually don't even like the actor's work. Everything about Fisk feels pretentious and forced, like the writers wanted to make the show as close to a prestige drama as possible. The Vanessa stuff is ridiculous - we never see what exactly she loves about him. She doesn't have a personality, she doesn't have a backstory, she's just there to enrichen his story. He feels like a character tailored to men and viewers who love slow, ponderous, cable-style drama storytelling with a huge focus on manpain and relationships between men. I'm not one of them. I want something more dynamic, sincere and much less pretentious. Which is why Frank worked for me on so many levels and why I've almost dropped the show in season one because of Fisk (thank God I didn't!).

 

That said, pairing him with Frank this season worked pretty well, because it's Frank. Matt lost a lot in my eyes this year because of his behaviour, so his relationship with Fisk is like the last thing I wanted to see (OK, second last after the endless repetitive fights with mooks). But there were some real shades of Villain Sue trope with Fisk taking over the prison. Some of the events were really, really contrived.

 

Of course, I admit that my opinion's pretty subjective in this case.

 

I think you've nailed it for me. Last season was very enjoyable but my eyes practically rolled back in my head every time we had a Fisk and Vanessa scene. Fisk monologues far too much and he's too powerful for no reason. Last season at leasthe had money and connections. This year he's broke and in jail yet apparently owns the entire prison? That makes very little sense.

 

And yes, this is just opinion of course.

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millennium

millennium

Is the general impression that Matt allowed himself to be roughed up by Fisk or that he was overwhelmed?   At first I thought the former and expected Matt to regain his composure once he was outside in the corridor, but he still appeared shaken. 

 

I don't understand how Fisk came by the super strength which enabled him to subdue both the Punisher and Matt.   Or bench press eight hundred pounds or whatever.

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

I don't understand how Fisk came by the super strength which enabled him to subdue both the Punisher and Matt.   Or bench press eight hundred pounds or whatever.

 

Well, Fisk is mammoth-sized in the comics. With such a build, not to mention his...poor impulse control, shall we say?...I can buy him subduing both men with little effort.

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blueray

blueray

I thought that Matt let himself get beat up (as he's suppose to be a normal lawyer). However, instinctively he blocked him and punched him in the face. Which is when Fisk said something about his dad being a boxer. From that it would seem like Matt learn something from his father, which isn't that weird. But I think Fisk realized Matt wasn't afraid or shocked for that matter. I think most people in that situation would have screamed for help.

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

I thought that Matt let himself get beat up (as he's suppose to be a normal lawyer). However, instinctively he blocked him and punched him in the face. Which is when Fisk said something about his dad being a boxer. From that it would seem like Matt learn something from his father, which isn't that weird. But I think Fisk realized Matt wasn't afraid or shocked for that matter. I think most people in that situation would have screamed for help.

 

I thought Matt did a good job of hiding his abilities when Fisk attacked him. Other than the block and punch, which was a lapse, he let Fisk believe he was totally overwhelming him. I don't think Fisk picked up on it being odd, or that Matt didn't seem as distressed as he otherwise might. To me, Matt gave off every impression of being as shocked and speechless as any blind man who is suddenly attacked in a situation where he's supposed to be safe might.

 

It's going to take more than that for Fisk to link the pesky blind lawyer to Daredevil, in my view.

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KaleyFirefly

KaleyFirefly

Oh, hi Gilles Marini! Oh....bye? He's really just a one off guest star? Disappointing. Also, I caught sight of Marini's stunt double several times in that fight sequence, which distracted me. At least, I'm pretty sure that was a stunt double. 

Thanks for putting a name to a face! So then I had to look up Gilles Marini...it was, ahem, research...can this guy just be in every TV show?? He's ridiculously hot.

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KaleyFirefly

KaleyFirefly

The fight scene at the airport was cool though, but I am not really sure why Stick wanted to kill her, other than his just general asshole nature.

I was wondering that, too -- why did Stick go to so much trouble to save her life, only to try to kill her later? Just because she's not working for him? Who does she work for now? 

 

Great shot with the creepy kids looking out the window and the ninjas silently climbing...what a way to end an episode!

 

I like Fisk as a character and the actor is great. I wondered if Matt was just bluffing in his threat about Vanessa -- can he really keep her out of the country? And I liked his argument to Fisk that Fisk can never leave New York...so many New Yorkers are that way! The city is in their blood! They can't imagine ever leaving. 

 

I am liking the Frank / Karen team-up! I like that Karen didn't back down when confronting Frank. She is a strong character, which I like, because I didn't like her much in season 1.

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ulkis

ulkis

Is the general impression that Matt allowed himself to be roughed up by Fisk or that he was overwhelmed?   At first I thought the former and expected Matt to regain his composure once he was outside in the corridor, but he still appeared shaken. 

 

I don't understand how Fisk came by the super strength which enabled him to subdue both the Punisher and Matt.   Or bench press eight hundred pounds or whatever.

 

I think he was shaken from finding out Fisk ran the prison, and the threat to Foggy. And getting punched in the face a bunch of times probably left him a bit disoriented, even if he let it happen.

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maczero

maczero

On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 9:42 PM, millennium said:

I don't understand how Fisk came by the super strength which enabled him to subdue both the Punisher and Matt.   Or bench press eight hundred pounds or whatever.

You should see some of Kingpin's earliest comic appearances. He beat Spiderman with his bare hands and even a young Spiderman could easily lift a car.  He's also shaken off being shot, run through with swords and had a multi-story being land on top of him.  The funny thing is Marvel insists that Fisk is a normal human.

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millennium

millennium

41 minutes ago, maczero said:

You should see some of Kingpin's earliest comic appearances. He beat Spiderman with his bare hands and even a young Spiderman could easily lift a car.  He's also shaken off being shot, run through with swords and had a multi-story being land on top of him.  The funny thing is Marvel insists that Fisk is a normal human.

That is funny.   I grew up DC, so had no exposure to any of these characters before.

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Anela

Anela

I hate Fisk. I guess he set things up for Frank to escape, so that he could take care of certain things outside, and blame him. I also felt bad for D.A. although she'd been trying to cover things up. I don't think she deserved that. 

I also like Frank and Karen together. 

That ending was creepy. 

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sinkwriter

sinkwriter

(edited)
On 3/26/2016 at 1:38 AM, WendyCR72 said:

Well, Fisk is mammoth-sized in the comics. With such a build, not to mention his...poor impulse control, shall we say?...I can buy him subduing both men with little effort.

There was a this one camera shot that made me really see the difference in size between Frank and Fisk, when Fisk came to see Frank in that solitary sort of room he was brought to after the big cellblock massacre. They were practically nose to nose a few times in that scene, facing off with one another, and in that moment the camera made Fisk look a lot taller than Frank. Before that, I always saw Frank as this giant, but in that moment, he looked scarily vulnerable in comparison to Fisk who loomed over him in size (height and bulk). It was pretty fascinating.

Edited by sinkwriter
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sinkwriter

sinkwriter

Poor Foggy. He better be okay, or I'm going to be very pissed off.

P.S. I was glad to see Karen actually brought Ben's editor boss with her when she went to see the medical examiner, and actually acquiesced when he insisted she bring some cops with her when she stopped off at her apartment for her files. I know she can take care of herself, but her insistence upon always going alone to these incredibly dangerous places (or when she knows she's in danger) just pisses me off. She doesn't need a man to save her or anything like that; I just prefer knowing she's going with some backup, you know? Don't be stupid. (Especially when sometimes your hard-headedness and pushiness ends up getting someone else killed.)

In fact, I loved the line the editor gave when she tried to call him out on insisting she not go alone because he never would have insisted on it with Ben, and he said, "Yeah, and I'm never making that mistake again." That was a great line for his character. Poor Ben. I miss him.

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