S15.E20: Top 4 Perform

[queenanne]

I think that's why she often uses dancers.  The message to me seems to be, "I'm not the product here, my music is.  If you need visuals, here watch these lovely dancers.  Their art is visual."  

 

I might not buy a used car from someone in a Cousin It wig, though.  

 

Fair enough; but for me, it almost makes things worse that they're personal confessional lyrics, etc., that she's expecting us to believe in and purchase.  Maybe if it came with a window into her eyes, we'd say, "Meh.  She's pretty ordinary."  Plus, what did she do for the prior 20 years?  I think it's clear she never made any "real money", i.e. the leap to millions and superstardom, until she added a gimmick she will baldly say is a gimmick.  

 

I mean, to some extent if American Idol has taught us anything at all as viewers, it's taught us about "image". We may not be able to quantify it, but we know it takes one to "make it".  

 

We know that some people, once we start looking at them, really looking at them on a huge stage, seem like nonentities.  In a way, that's the whole point of "Lady Gaga" coming from "Stephanie Germanotta'.  Gaga in retrospect has been quite plain, that she was only "Gaga" because SG was a plain nonentity singing in coffeeshops.  Is the re-casting "a right decision", just because she's now made millions and everyone knows her name?  

 

Probably beyond our abilities to define the scope in a single message board conversation, but it seems a little silly to say that (paraphrasing the generic response category and not any one person in particular) "image is just silly cosmetic foofaraw that no one cares about".  Defining it in the same universe as a universe where the likes of Gaga, Sia, and Lana Del Rey, who tried as ordinary humans with the same intellectual material and got nowhere until they glitzed it up and added a highly stylized image, is kind of disingenuous.  Clearly people care about image, glitz, and glamor.  Gaga was nowhere just singing at open mics.  If she had been satisfied with the place she was at professionally using the "image" of a girl with acoustic guitar, she wouldn't have become "GAGA!"

Edited March 26, 2016 by queenanne

[Ms Blue Jay]

I think part of the reason Sia went from not that famous to hugely famous is the David Guetta hit "Titanium" which was also used in movies like "Pitch Perfect", as part of their ad campaign.  Maybe that's when she was getting "too" famous and she decided to do all of this.  

[waving feather]

I have been a fan of Sia long before her whole face-covering shtick. I don't really understand the rational fully but her voice is still undeniable, so it doesn't bother me. 

 

When she was still showing her face... She's still as kooky and adorble as now. Her songs are pop on the surface, but wow the lyrics are always painful.

Edited March 26, 2016 by waving feather

[BogoGog24]

My take on the episode this week:

 

La'Porsha -

 

Wanted Dead or Alive - I'm over LP and think she should go, but I highly disagreed with Scott's opinion of her singing this and even though she's not really a favorite of mine anymore, I think it's downright disgusting the way he constantly throws her under the bus and shades her in interviews (he did it again this week, mentioning the "cowboy" thing again). I don't see what's so heinous about her singing this song. In the end I don't think it was that great of a performance from her in comparison to others and she flubbed a lyric (which the judges didn't mention?), but over the years we've had plenty of contestants sing songs where the lyrics didn't exactly match them, like Avalon singing Yo Excuse Me Miss? Candice singing When I Was Your Man and not flipping the gender? So what's the difference? As long as she can make you believe what she's singing, that's what really matters and honestly I hate it when people try to gender flip songs. It's always cooler to me to leave the lyrics as written. I seem to recall Nick last year singing Teenage Dream but I can't remember if he changed the lyrics or not.

 

Elastic Heart - This was just ok for me. I was too distracted by the garbage bag she was wearing to really pay attention to her singing. I feel like this was her weakest week, which for her is still pretty great, she's obviously talented, but I'm over her already. I wouldn't be mad if she won because she'd vocally be very deserving and it would be perfect karma for Scott to get stuck with her, but I'm just disenchanted with her now. I think she should go either next week or in 3rd place. It's kind of ironic how she had probably the best week last week with 2 strong performances and this week she was one of the weakest, I would say the worst next to MacKenzie. I think LP peaked way too early and set the bar too high for herself because now everything she does is going to come off mediocre in comparison to what she's done in the past. At least that's how it is for me. Even if her "mediocre" is still better than some of the other's "best," that's just how it is for me.

 

Trent - 

 

Sharp Dressed Man - I liked this, I don't know if it was as great as the judges were saying it was though. I really liked the studio recording and bought it on iTunes though and believe his charted the highest. Boy did he look sharp though. I much prefer his suits than his goofy hats and scarves look. He's quite handsome IMO and I think could be a successful Sam Smith type if he won. 

 

Chandelier - I agree with someone else who said they wished he had belted out the chorus. I was missing that from this, but otherwise he did a good job. Again, not sure if I loved it as much as the judges, but he really is such a skilled vocalist. Easily the best of the male singers left (not that that's saying much). I would love him to be in the finale.

 

MacKenzie - 

 

I Want You To Want Me - I think this was the worst performance of the night. He got drowned out by the band in the middle. It was just ok. There's been very few performances from him that have impressed me and I feel like most of the stuff he does has sounded all exactly the same anyway. When he has the right song, he sounds REALLY good (Roses, Can't Help Falling in Love), but otherwise it always comes off as just "eh." 

 

Titanium - I think this was actually quite good from him, but I wish he had tried for the high note more than only once or twice. When he did it it didn't sound bad at all. 

 

Dalton - 

 

God Only Knows - I think since the lives started this was his best vocal, probably because he wasn't sick this week. This is definitely a closer representation of his voice and what I know he can do than what he's shown in past weeks. I do agree the aimless wandering around on the stage was a little distracting, maybe he should have just sat on a stool or stood behind the mic stand. The sitting on the stairs was cute though. His recording was the only other iTunes recording I bought besides Trent's. I'm glad he finally pulled out a ballad and did something soft and vulnerable for a change.

 

Bird Set Free - Wow. Just wow. I don't honestly get the hate over this. This is easily the most powerful performance he's ever given. I don't understand at all people saying, not just here but all over the Internet, that he was being fake in this. Not at all! He is one of the most genuine people in this competition (they all are) and one of the most genuine people in general. I really felt this from him and felt like this was the perfect song for him, even more than Sound of Silence was. It was like Sia wrote these words just for him. If you didn't feel that when he broke down at the end.... There were probably no tears because he was trying not to cry, he hates crying and especially hates crying on TV. I think people are giving him way too much credit for "fake" crying, he's not that great of an actor. He deserves an Oscar if he was faking that. You could just tell he felt every word he was singing.

 

I think anyone who hated this performance, calls it fake or whatever, clearly missed the point of the entire song. Dalton knows he's not the best singer in the competition. He's even acknowledged that himself in interviews. I'm sure he's read the comments he gets about people saying he can't sing or that he's mediocre. I feel like that's all the more reason why he chose this song with these lyrics. "I don't care if I sing off key, I get lost in my melodies, I sing for love, I sing for me." Music is what helps him through his depression and bipolar disorder. He doesn't care that he's not the best singer, he sings because it's like therapy for him, and as a fellow musician I totally understand that from him. Music is his release like it is for myself and many others. This was just the absolute perfect song for him and he delivered it emotionally better than anyone could have. Dalton's not the best singer in the competition, but for me he connects the best to his songs and delivers the lyrics like no one else does, and that counts more to me at the end of the day than who can hit the highest note. I FEEL stuff when Dalton sings, that's why I like him.

 

I wish people would stop it already saying he only gets by on looks. It's a really sexist comment, for one thing, to assume young girls are only voting for looks. I follow a lot of his fans on Twitter and yes they all love his looks but they love his talent and his heart as a performer much more. He's not just some singer on TV for most of us. I've personally seen stories of people on Twitter saying they too suffer from some kind of mental illness like depression, anxiety, or whatever and that he's helped them get through it. That's inspiring. He's inspiring. He's everything an American Idol should be IMO. Yeah he also just happens to be damn good looking, so what? It's not like people buy CDs to listen to how someone looks, that doesn't even make any sense. If he was hideous looking people would probably comment on what a great, deep, sensitive artist he is. If all he had was looks and nothing else, he would not have made it to the top 4. Even the Tim Urbans and Sanjayas and Lazaros of the Idol world got booted eventually and none of them made Top 5. 

 

At the end of the day, it's about who you connect with, who's music would you buy, who would you see in concert. Most of the people who have won Idol were not the best singers in their season, but there were qualities about them besides that that attracted people to vote for them. I think Phillip was far from being the best singer in his season and I think Jessica or Joshua deserved to win that year, frankly, and while P2 is not my cup of tea generally, there must have been something about him that enticed people to vote, probably for the way he connected to his performances and having a unique style. I thought Nick was pretty meh last year, but again, something about him must have enticed people to vote, probably because he's really likable and nice. Pop music is all about the whole package, not just having 1 quality or another, but having a bit of everything and to me Dalton has everything. 

 

I'd encourage people to check out his acoustic performances on YouTube if they think he can't sing, but I won't even bother because I'm sure no matter what some people won't change their opinion about him. It's a shame that some people don't see what I and others see in him, but oh well. Their loss. For me the best quality about Dalton is his songwriting. He's a phenomenal writer IMO and I've already bought everything I can get my hands on from him in terms of original music. Dalton is someone I would buy a CD from and someone I would see in concert. I can't say the same about La'Porsha, despite the fact she's a better singer. Whatever, I just don't care. It's not just all about having a great voice, if that's all it took there'd be many more famous singers than there are. Sonika is a great example of someone with a great voice but obviously didn't do enough to connect with the audience. I connect with Dalton more artistically and personally, so that's where my votes go.

 

If the finale came down to La'Porsha and Trent, I guess vocally they are the 2 most deserving. But I would prefer to see Trent win. I don't see LP being commercially successful. As I said, I wouldn't care about buying her record or seeing her in concert. Trent, depending on the material, I would possibly buy his album and possibly see him live, again, depending on what direction he went in. He would have a chance at success IMO if he did Sam Smith/Adele type stuff. 

 

My preference for a finale though is Dalton and Trent and I would be happy with either outcome. Dalton is my #1 pick though. I think he deserves it so much. To see someone who encountered so much pain and darkness in their life emerge victorious with the confetti falling down is just so inspiring to me and exactly what American Idol is all about. And I think depending on how much Scott pushed him promotion-wise and what material he released (hopefully his own original stuff), he could potentially be one of the bigger success stories as well. I know no matter where he places though he's going to go on to do things after Idol and this won't be the last we hear from him. 

 

I think next week either MacKenzie or La'Porsha should go, then whichever of the 2 didn't go goes in 3rd, and we're left with a Dalton/Trent finale. I liked both Mac and LP in the beginning but I'm over them now. I would potentially buy Mac's CD depending on the material (if it was as good as Roses), might not care to see him in concert. I feel like everything he does is the same and he has a very limited style (but when he does that 1 style it's very good). For me Trent is the best vocalist left and Dalton is the best song flipper/entertainer/performer left. 

 

I'm shocked Dalton was in B2 this week. I'm hoping it was producer shenanigans done for drama and not that he was really in B2 because with how many fans he has voting for him, I just don't see how LP or Trent scrounged up enough votes to overtake him. And it scares me. I think MacKenzie's fans will vote really hard this week due to the bussing he got. Dalton's fans are voting extra hard due to him being in B2. Trent had an overall solid night, probably the best of the 4, so he's not going anywhere. La'Porsha went first and had a meh performance and this week wasn't really overall one of her strongest so I hope that means maybe she'll go next week.

 

Other:

 

I won't be able to handle the hometown visits next week. I hope they don't show stupid JLo's face during one of them like they did with poor Alex Preston a few seasons ago. DONT RUIN IT. 

 

Speaking of stupid JLo, how could she forget the mentor's name? I'm not a fan of Springsteen but as soon as I saw the guy I totally recognized him. And even if it was just a temporary brain fart like we all sometimes have, she didn't even act bothered about forgetting, like "Oh I'm so sorry, I just had a brain fart, how could I forget?" Stevie's wife had some choice words for JLo on Twitter (but she deleted most of her tweets). 

 

I liked both mentors. Stevie gave great advice and he made Scott look so stupid for disagreeing with the Bon Jovi song. I also think he gave great advice to Dalton for changing the rock song. I've never been a White Stripes fan and I think 7 Nation Army would have been so predictable for him. I'm glad he chose a soft and vulnerable song for a change because all his performances up to now have been basically emo rock. Good to see him do something different for a change and that I feel is more in his wheelhouse. 

 

I think Sia was a great mentor as well. She made some jerkish comments in the media about my favorite singer so I was prepared to not like her, but she seems really nice and all the contestants have said she's the sweetest person. I loved her and Dalton bonding over their bipolar experience. You could tell how much Dalton's face lit up when he learned that about her and that it made him feel less alone and like someone could understand him. I loved that Sia also pushed the contestants to go outside their comfort zones a bit, like with MacKenzie. The greatest teachers push IMO and it usually brings the best out of them. I personally don't mind the hiding her face thing either. It looks ridiculous and I think achieves the opposite effect she wants by just drawing even more attention, but hey, it's worked for her and I respect her desire to want to do what she loves but retain some semblance of anonymity. She has some severe mental illnesses, besides bipolarity, I think she also suffers with depression and possibly anxiety as well, I can imagine dealing with fame and paparazzi is difficult for perfectly healthy people, let alone if you have mental illnesses like that. 

 

I've never really gotten the fuss over David Cook or his music, to me he's a barely above average singer (I know, rich coming from a Dalton fan lol), but I quite liked his performance. It's not a song I would buy on iTunes but I thought it was the perfect song for that Idol tribute. I liked it more as it built up and the tribute behind him was nice and touching.

 

Poor Sonika. I wish they could have let her sing her swan song instead of having it just playing over her goodbye package. We could have skipped the stupid Angry Birds commercial and Fungo nonsense to have her sing and give a proper goodbye. She looked nice though.

 

Wanted to mention because some people were wondering/asking, yes Dalton teaches vocals, bass, and guitar at School of Rock in Texas which is an after school music program for kids and where he studied for several years himself. They also do teach adults but I think Dalton is an instructor for kids. IMO you don't have to be Mariah Carey to teach voice. Teaching voice is based on technique and he learned all the techniques himself when he went there. Everyone is going to have different vocal capabilities and as long as he can effectively teach a young child what to do to make them the best singer they can be, what does it matter that he's just an ok singer himself? 

 

Prediction for B2 next week: MacKenzie and La'Porsha, La'Porsha goes home. I don't know though. There seems to be a trend with whoever is in B2 and gets saved ends up in the B2 again the following week and gets eliminated so I hope that doesn't mean Dalton will go. :( But even if he does, he still made 4th place and we all know that means he's gonna pull a Daughtry, come out later this year with a CD called Rapattoni, and become the most successful selling alum of the year. :D Hmm, maybe I do want him to come in 4th after all. :p

Edited March 26, 2016 by BogoGog24

[howmanywords]

Because the AI brass has come to their senses and realize they all suck. They have nothing left to lose, so they're not even pretending anymore. LOL

Fox released a list of all the alumni that will be part of the final (tons) and the only winner not included was Phillip.

[BogoGog24]

Fox released a list of all the alumni that will be part of the final (tons) and the only winner not included was Phillip.

 

I noticed that. I think it's because of the contract lawsuit. They even invited Candice and Caleb back.

[wiggiebegone]

The pimping of Trent was to get more votes for centipede head. Were they saying fongoo or fungoul? that's an Italian curse phrase. Will not miss Harry or fakester jlo.  Pathetic. Also, I never saw another family get a makeover job like one got tonite. Show has gone into patheticville this year. I miss Paula and Simon and never thought 'd say it, and even Randy!

[ari333]

Which family got the makeover? I missed it TIA.

[Padma]

I couldn't stand Simon or Randi and Paula was, most of the time, nice but so insipid. I know their chemistry was part of the reason for AI's huge early success, but for me, they eventually made the show unwatchable. And I didn't like Tyler, DeGeneres, Minaj or Carey so to me, even with their faults, this has been far and away the most knowledgeable and most enjoyable panel--also the one with the best chemistry. And I like the idea of having someone mentoring the contestants, but I haven't liked most of the choices--including Borchetta. A lot of the criticism of the singers sometimes sounds like veiled criticism of the advice Scott's given them.  If it wasn't for Big Machine's connection to the finalist, I think they could have found someone so much better.  He's an improvement over Randy Jackson, but that's about the best I can say.

 

I've liked Mackenzie and Dalton from the beginning and think each should be able to have decent careers in music--Dalton in a group and Mackenzie as a songwriter who sometimes also performs. But, for me, they're both in way over their heads as F4. Trent and La Porsche are just vocally so much more accomplished--so much more capable on so many different kinds of songs--and deserve to be F2, with either one of them a reasonable winner.  

 

I almost feel bad for Mackenzie and Dalton lasting this long because the pressure just gets worse and the expectations, I think, are beyond what either of them can successfully deliver. The last three weeks have been showing that, imo. I'm not looking forward to hearing either of them struggling some more next week.

[BogoGog24]

I think we all got the point.  Not loving a performance doesn't mean it went over your head, necessarily.  I actually thought he sang both songs well and sounded really good.  I just think he's overacting.  It's an opinion, not an assertion of fact, an insult to your tastes or a comment on his worth as a human being.

 

IMO people still commenting on his lack of vocal ability shows they missed the point of the lyrics. 

[designing1]

Everyone here is pretty darn intelligent, and the song really isn't all that deep and complex. We got it. Doesn't mean we still can't have reached the conclusion over the past several weeks (not just one song) that Dalton is vocally limited.

 

It also doesn't mean others can't think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's still a free country...this year.

[TheGreenKnight]

I think Dalton spinning a narrative that benefits himself about how vocal ability doesn't matter shows he's missing the point of the show. Especially when you have La'Porsha and Trent, who have both vocal ability and connection to the lyrics, why does Dalton deserve a pass?

[Jextella]

I couldn't stand Simon or Randi and Paula was, most of the time, nice but so insipid. I know their chemistry was part of the reason for AI's huge early success, but for me, they eventually made the show unwatchable. And I didn't like Tyler, DeGeneres, Minaj or Carey so to me, even with their faults, this has been far and away the most knowledgeable and most enjoyable panel--also the one with the best chemistry. And I like the idea of having someone mentoring the contestants, but I haven't liked most of the choices--including Borchetta. A lot of the criticism of the singers sometimes sounds like veiled criticism of the advice Scott's given them.  If it wasn't for Big Machine's connection to the finalist, I think they could have found someone so much better.  He's an improvement over Randy Jackson, but that's about the best I can say.

 

I've liked Mackenzie and Dalton from the beginning and think each should be able to have decent careers in music--Dalton in a group and Mackenzie as a songwriter who sometimes also performs. But, for me, they're both in way over their heads as F4. Trent and La Porsche are just vocally so much more accomplished--so much more capable on so many different kinds of songs--and deserve to be F2, with either one of them a reasonable winner.  

 

I almost feel bad for Mackenzie and Dalton lasting this long because the pressure just gets worse and the expectations, I think, are beyond what either of them can successfully deliver. The last three weeks have been showing that, imo. I'm not looking forward to hearing either of them struggling some more next week.

 

Agree with most of this.  Not winning might not be the worst thing in the world given the track record of recent winners.  Of the remaining four, I hope La Porsha wins only because odds of a post-show career are slim to none for her.  Heavy-set, older, a mother .... not the typical mold of an up-and-coming pop star.  The boys fit the mold a little better.  They may not have post-show careers either but they are closer to the mold and have a leg up that LP doesn't have.

 

I really like Harry and Keith.  Alot.  They are good judges and entertaining as well.  I'm always surprised and impressed by how smart they are.  Keith, in particular.

 

I do like JLo on the show but not at the salary she makes. She doesn't warrant it, IMO.  While she is likeable on the panel, she is BORING and not nearly as insightful as the other two.

 

I've always believed (and still believe) that Paula and Randy were the best judges the show ever had.  Paula went looney tunes toward the end, and Randy was never very articulate, but...they had the best intuition about the contestants out of all of them combined. 

[MrsMoltisanti]

I love Dalton but over the last few weeks I do see his limits as the above poster mentioned. He must be connecting on some level though to inspire such allegiance from some fans on the boards. I think he could have used a few more years and maybe some more training but this being the last season we can't have this scenario. One thing I noticed was that he had written in marker on the top of his hand "it's alright". And I noticed Sia had something along those lines written on the top of her hands as well. I wonder if he got that from her as a suggestion after the cameras stopped rolling. I would like to imagine her giving him some such advice like that. Dalton really seemed nervous all night whether real or amped up for attention it was so noticeable.

All in all I really like the judges. Harry is annoying at times and JLo is sweet but diva like and Keith is just this real guy. They work for me.

Still died a little when JLo forgot Stevie's name. I love him from the Sopranos. He was fantastic on the show. I think his real life wife played his show wife as well so I can just see her giving it via Twitter to Jennifer.

Edited March 26, 2016 by MrsMoltisanti

[designing1]

I think Dalton spinning a narrative that benefits himself about how vocal ability doesn't matter shows he's missing the point of the show. Especially when you have La'Porsha and Trent, who have both vocal ability and connection to the lyrics, why does Dalton deserve a pass?

 

Exactly.

Edited March 26, 2016 by designing1

[Foghorn Leghorn]

I think Dalton spinning a narrative that benefits himself about how vocal ability doesn't matter shows he's missing the point of the show. Especially when you have La'Porsha and Trent, who have both vocal ability and connection to the lyrics, why does Dalton deserve a pass?

 

And isn't Dalton missing Sia's point who makes it about music/voice/lyrics without a face....alike yet so different.  

Edited March 26, 2016 by Foghorn Leghorn

[Jextella]

I think Dalton spinning a narrative that benefits himself about how vocal ability doesn't matter shows he's missing the point of the show. Especially when you have La'Porsha and Trent, who have both vocal ability and connection to the lyrics, why does Dalton deserve a pass?

I like Dalton, and who am I to know if there is strategy at work here.  Regardless of intent, it ain't flyin'.  In fact, it's having the opposite effect on me.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Jextella

[Stratego]

I think Dalton spinning a narrative that benefits himself about how vocal ability doesn't matter shows he's missing the point of the show. Especially when you have La'Porsha and Trent, who have both vocal ability and connection to the lyrics, why does Dalton deserve a pass?

...and how many times did Simon say "...it's a singing competition."

[BogoGog24]

LP and Trent may have both but they really don't appeal to me artistically the way Dalton does. It ain't just all about who sings the best and technical ability. I do enjoy Trent's artistry to an extent but... Dalton just does it for me more than anyone else. I connect with him so much on both an artistic as well as a personal level. It probably helps that I've sought out a lot of his original music and watched him in interviews, basically anything I can see, hear, or read about him. None of the others inspired me to do any of that. Like I said, at the end of the day, it's about who you personally connect with. People can shout at me all they want to about how Trent and LP are the better singers on a singing competition- I really don't care. They don't interest me. Dalton is the one who interests me and grabs me. He's the one I'm going to buy a CD from and go see in concert. That's all there is to it. 

[rereader2]

If pure singing talent were all that mattered in a music star, we'd all be listening to opera--and rap and hip-hop would never have happened at all. 

 

There's a cluster of talents that make a person successful in the music world, and different genres require different personalities (and different talents) as well. This year it's especially noticeable that they set up the pool of contestants so that by the time our votes counted at all the choice was as much for music genre as singer--people vote for what they want to hear more of (to the extent that they vote), which includes genre and personality more than voices. And that's weird, but it's also fine, because that's also how people consume music.

[27bored]

I'm just not interested in the sentiment that vocals are secondary on a singing competition.

To be honest, and I don't know if this changed once Simon left or if it changed after they allowed instruments, but there's a lack of competitiveness in these Idols over the past few seasons that really affects the show. If people like Mackenzie and Dalton can skate by on looks and aw shucks appeal, they never have to worry about being very good.

[Ketzel]

The popular music industry has always had its performers who were weak on vocals but strong on sex appeal. And if Dalton achieves a career, he'll be another one of them. *shrugs* Although I must say the point of Sia's lyric "I don't care if I sing off-key" was not that it's OK for a professional singer to sing off-key.  And Dalton was definitely off-key.

[queenanne]

One more time before I stop beating this dead horse, here is Sia in February 2015...

 

face fully on display, for photocall at Elton John's bash.

 

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/recording-artists-sia-and-nicole-scherzinger-attend-the-news-photo/464199500

 

Now I really don't know what secrecy everygirl-day shopping purpose she would think was affected by donning the over-eye wig.  Clearly she's also smart enough to know that these could potentially be worldwide pictures.

[GreyBunny]

There was also a mild scandal at the time of the original show because it was said that, being local, she wasn't required to stay segregated in the mansion with the other contestants and could instead go home (to then-fiance or parents; not sure which).  

 

Lastly, she had a pretty notorious run in the press at the end of her previous series, Smash, when she was pictured making out with Mary McCormack's husband, one of their former directors, in a parking lot.

 

McPhee was standoffish, condescending, and downright nasty to the other contestants and fans and walked around with a sense of entitlement.  She told Kellie Pickler that she (Kellie) didn't deserve to be there and should go home.  Regardless of whether someone agrees with her or not it was not her place to say that to Kellie or any other contestant.  What a bitch.  I hate her worse than any other contestant that was on the show and there have been some real hateable contestants. 

Edited March 27, 2016 by GreyBunny

[BogoGog24]

McPhee was standoffish, condescending, and downright nasty to the other contestants and fans and walked around with a sense of entitlement. She told Kellie Pickler that she (Kellie) didn't deserve to be there and should go home. Regardless of whether someone agrees with her or not it was not her place to say that to Kellie or any other contestant. What a bitch. I hate her worse than any other contestant that was on the show and there have been some real hateable contestants.

Wait what? When did she say that? That was my first season watching and I think I was still in middle school so that whole season is pretty foggy to me. I hope she didn't actually say this on camera did she?

Speaking of Katherine I forgot all about her performance. I kind of preferred when she sang SOTR the first time on the actual show, and aside from whatever bad personal traits she may or may not have, I remember loving that performance from her. But talk about vocally great singers- well she's probably easily a better singer than Dalton and yet she doesn't interest me.

I get to some people vocals are #1 in a singing competition. But that doesn't mean it is for every viewer. I think if people only voted based on vocal talent we wouldn't have ended up with half of the winners we did. Yet go figure that Taylor Hicks still ended up with a successful Vegas career, Scotty McCreery a #1 platinum selling album, and Phillip a quintuple platinum single. In comparison to Katherine whose music career really went nowhere, Haley Reinhart whose album never gained any kind of momentum (although has a steady gig performing with PMJ), and Jessica Sanchez whose album basically flopped. If all that matters is a good voice then why didn't any of them become stars?

No matter how many times people say a singing competition should be about the singing, it never really is. By the time we get to Hollywood Week, most of those people can sing. At that point there's gotta be other qualities that make them stand out besides that.

The main thing that just really gets under my skin is that all over the place I see people where, it's not enough for them to just say they don't like Dalton and leave it at that. They have to find ways to invalidate him as an artist and find reasons why people shouldn't vote for him or act like people have no reason to like him. Like because they think he's untalented it means he actually is and that everyone should think that about him. Saying he's only there because of his looks and saying his fans only vote because he's cute is pretty insulting not just to Dalton but to his fans as well.

The reason that's most especially annoying is because from what I've seen Dalton's fans are pretty respectful towards the other contestants and their respective fans. Notice how I expressed what I felt about LP, Trent, and Mac without ever invalidating their artistry or acting like their fans shouldn't like them. I just said they don't do anything "for me" and left it at that. Dalton's fans are one of the overall nicest groups of people yet we are targeted the most with hate and insults (not saying anyone here was being hateful but just in general).

[queenanne]

McPhee was standoffish, condescending, and downright nasty to the other contestants and fans and walked around with a sense of entitlement.  She told Kellie Pickler that she (Kellie) didn't deserve to be there and should go home.  Regardless of whether someone agrees with her or not it was not her place to say that to Kellie or any other contestant.  What a bitch.  I hate her worse than any other contestant that was on the show and there have been some real hateable contestants. 

 

I don't doubt the sentiment, but in the interests of fairness I have to say that the narrative otherwise, was that Kellie was a bridesmaid at McPhee's wedding and was also her roommate in the American Idol accommodations, so it's possible maybe they fought like sisters and made up.

[rereader2]

...and how many times did Simon say "...it's a singing competition."

 

And how many times did the person with the best voice actually win? Arguably never.

[queenanne]

And how many times did the person with the best voice actually win? Arguably never.

 

I feel like there's a finite cap on talented powerhouse singers who haven't been discovered or washed out of the category of trying at this point, and have in fact said so for a couple (several? feels like forever) years.  That's why we spent so much time besieged this season and, I feel, to be frank, in seasons kinda ever since I can remember, besieged by "fifteenness" (or however low the edge of the wedge was).  The current fifteen-year-olds are some of the only legitimate sitting-in-my-backyard-with-a-guitar artists who haven't tried to make it, here or on the Voice, don't have a failed record deal (or several) under their belts, or a current agented-and-actively-pushing-me situation.

[Stratego]

And how many times did the person with the best voice actually win? Arguably never.

Simon also said "...song choice...".  Singing competition involves more than voice.  Yesterday I watched a repeat of a show about Heart ("Rock Icons" or something).  Ann Wilson was commenting on qualities (in singing)--especially since she was performing Staircase to Heaven in front of an audience including Altman and Page (they were receiving some high award) and how important it was "to own a song".

 

As for "best voice"--not sure what you consider "best"--but most years I believe it was the "best" (overall) singer from the finals that won.  There were exceptions (like last year where Clarke "volunteered" for 2nd place), but mostly "the best".  One factor generally overlooked is fatigue.  Very few contestants were prepared for the grind of rehearsals, interviews, commercials, and performances.  Look close at most of today's stars--they are often very fit--performing is hard work.

[waving feather]

As for "best voice"--not sure what you consider "best"--but most years I believe it was the "best" (overall) singer from the finals that won. There were exceptions (like last year where Clarke "volunteered" for 2nd place), but mostly "the best". One factor generally overlooked is fatigue. Very few contestants were prepared for the grind of rehearsals, interviews, commercials, and performances. Look close at most of today's stars--they are often very fit--performing is hard work.

Can you elaborate more on how Clark volunteered to be 2nd place? I tuned out halfway through last season so I didn't know what went down towards the end. Thanks in advance.

I agree with the fatigue and hard work. AI contestants are worked to the bone especially when it comes down to the wire. It becomes less about talent and more about survival of the fittest. Just this week for example, the top 4 are flown right the next morning after the show to their hometowns, reached there night time and the next morning do the press, events, parade and mini concert... And then flown straight back to LA at night and start rehearsals for 3 songs the next morning. Learn, arrange, practice, staging, commercial, iTunes recording etc. I don't know about you, but just the travelling back and forth alone would wipe me out. In one of the hometown interviews, Trent mentioned that talent can only get you so far, it's all in the hard work...how much rehearsal time you put in.

[Ketzel]

I get to some people vocals are #1 in a singing competition. But that doesn't mean it is for every viewer. I think if people only voted based on vocal talent we wouldn't have ended up with half of the winners we did. Yet go figure that Taylor Hicks still ended up with a successful Vegas career, Scotty McCreery a #1 platinum selling album, and Phillip a quintuple platinum single. In comparison to Katherine whose music career really went nowhere, Haley Reinhart whose album never gained any kind of momentum (although has a steady gig performing with PMJ), and Jessica Sanchez whose album basically flopped. If all that matters is a good voice then why didn't any of them become stars?

I don't see anyone here saying that vocal talent is the ONLY thing that matters. Obviously star quality has many aspects aside from pure vocal technique. In fact, star quality can override the lack of vocal technique, as can technology. It's not hard to find stars whose charisma is the biggest part of their appeal, with autotune making up for the vocal lacks. But I, for one, think singing should matter, in the sense that a strong voice should be a necessity for a professional singer. It's not all that's needed, but it should be in the package.

 

The main thing that just really gets under my skin is that all over the place I see people where, it's not enough for them to just say they don't like Dalton and leave it at that. They have to find ways to invalidate him as an artist and find reasons why people shouldn't vote for him or act like people have no reason to like him. Like because they think he's untalented it means he actually is and that everyone should think that about him.

That's what discussion is about. I don't think people are trying to find ways to invalidate Dalton as an artist. They just don't care for his performances and are offering their reasons why.

[howmanywords]

And how many times did the person with the best voice actually win? Arguably never.

That's when things get tricky though because best voice will always be a matter of opinion.  There are some singers who are obviously better technical singers than others but for the most part I think everyone that won were good singers. Carrie, Kelly, Fantasia, Jordan, Candice just off the top of my head I think they were the best singers. When it comes down to the final 2 there are many factors that go into voting like last year I felt both Nick and Clark were very goof but Nick had the better song and that pushed me to vote for him.

 

I don't see anyone here saying that vocal talent is the ONLY thing that matters. Obviously star quality has many aspects aside from pure vocal technique. In fact, star quality can override the lack of vocal technique, as can technology. It's not hard to find stars whose charisma is the biggest part of their appeal, with autotune making up for the vocal lacks. But I, for one, think singing should matter, in the sense that a strong voice should be a necessity for a professional singer. It's not all that's needed, but it should be in the package.

That's what discussion is about. I don't think people are trying to find ways to invalidate Dalton as an artist. They just don't care for his performances and are offering their reasons why.

Exactly. And frankly I don't see a ton of Dalton hate.  I dont see him ripped to shreds. Nothing compared to some of the brutal hate other Idols have gotten over the years.  If someone sings off key people are going to point it out and offer opinions.  Just like La'Porsha who is normally praised is seeing some harsher opinions this past week since she was a little off (and forgot words which people pointed out).

[perfectstorm]

I think Dalton's fans do him no favors by focusing too much on his looks, what he is wearing, etc.  Something tells me the screaming teen fans would feel differently if he looks like Caleb Johnson.

 

I also think Dalton invalidates himself - by focusing too much on the façade (the guy liner, his outfit).  He had said the boy band thing was really more him and that MacKenzie was more the artist, musician.

 

I'm just not clear who he is as an artist - and I'm sure if he knows himself.   Whether it's Cook, Kris, Lee, Scotty, Phil, they knew who they were and the music always came first with these guys.

Edited March 27, 2016 by ifoundit

[GreyBunny]

I don't doubt the sentiment, but in the interests of fairness I have to say that the narrative otherwise, was that Kellie was a bridesmaid at McPhee's wedding and was also her roommate in the American Idol accommodations, so it's possible maybe they fought like sisters and made up.

That's a narrative for AI to weave, not McPhee.   Pickler was a fellow contestant, not a "bridesmaid" to her wedding and telling her she should go home was just nasty.  If McPhee thought of Pickler as a bridesmaid then that just another example of her unearned sense of entitlement.  If they fought like sisters then I have little doubt McPhee was the one starting the fights.   

[Ketzel]

That's a narrative for AI to weave, not McPhee.   Pickler was a fellow contestant, not a "bridesmaid" to her wedding and telling her she should go home was just nasty.  If McPhee thought of Pickler as a bridesmaid then that just another example of her unearned sense of entitlement.  If they fought like sisters then I have little doubt McPhee was the one starting the fights.

Queenanne wasn't speaking metaphorically. Kellie Pickler actually was a bridesmaid when Katherine McPhee got married in 2008. Edited March 27, 2016 by Ketzel

[howmanywords]

Kellie was definitely a bridesmaid

http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2008/gallery/mcphee_wedding/mcphee7.jpg

[tribeca]

 I seem to always like the polarizing contestants so I get how it can get disappointing when people put down the one you are rooting for.  Heck I rooted for Kris Allen from Wild Card week on and thought he had no chance of winning.  Was shocked and happy when he won only for everyone (and I mean everyone) telling me there were conspiracies and Kris didn't deserve to win.  No celebrating for that one.

 

    It will be interesting to see if this is a two person or three person finale.   A lot of former idols expected to perform which should be fun.  Wonder if any former judges will be there??

[TheGreenKnight]

I get to some people vocals are #1 in a singing competition. But that doesn't mean it is for every viewer. I think if people only voted based on vocal talent we wouldn't have ended up with half of the winners we did. Yet go figure that Taylor Hicks still ended up with a successful Vegas career, Scotty McCreery a #1 platinum selling album, and Phillip a quintuple platinum single. In comparison to Katherine whose music career really went nowhere, Haley Reinhart whose album never gained any kind of momentum (although has a steady gig performing with PMJ), and Jessica Sanchez whose album basically flopped. If all that matters is a good voice then why didn't any of them become stars?

The point isn't that the person with the best technical voice wins, it's that the winner of a singing contest (whoever they may be) should at least be a competent or above average singer. For what it's worth, Taylor Hicks can sing very well--leagues better than Dalton--even if he's a type that the average person would not be interested in. Whether Idol's hype machine could (or has) made the best out of winners who can't sing is besides the point.

[rereader2]

I think there's an awful lot of hyperbole going on about Dalton's voice. He may not have Trent's range or a particularly powerful voice, but he has a good voice, and an expressive and distinctive one, and no, he does not sing off key. The worst problem he's had in this competition has been an occasional problem with keeping his voice steady, and seeing as he's had (and still has) a sinus infection for most of this highly abbreviated season, it's not surprising. Going by his live performances on YouTube (from when he's healthy), this isn't a regular issue for him.

Edited March 28, 2016 by rereader2

[nutty1]

I have only watched sporadically this season, and I googled the top 4's songs from this past week.

 

I still like MacKenzie a lot. I love quirky. The judges seem like they'd like him to go next.
Trent has a great voice, a bit boring. I liked his first song better than the second.
Dalton....I still do not think he has the best voice, but I see the appeal. He should do Broadway. I also liked his first song, much better. He has haunting eyes. He seems so.....fragile.
LaPorsha has a great voice. But she does nothing at all for me.

I think Trent or LaPorsha will win.

[jem199]

I don't see any of these kids ever being a star.  There were seasons I would count the hours until I got to see a certain performer but I'm just watching it out of habit at this point.  I like Dalton because I go more for passionate singers.  I have a bipolar teenager daughter and I don't think for one second that he's faking or exaggerating his angst.  What I see in him is exactly what I see in my daughter when she's depressed.  While she's in bed with the covers over her head hiding from the world, he's out singing in front of millions of people.  That takes some guts. It's a low most of us can't even imagine.  Instead of taking shots at a kid with a mental disorder he never asked for be glad you will never have to walk in his shoes. 

 

There's something about Trent that totally turns me off.  I don't care for Mackenzie's arrangements.  I like La'Porsha but will probably forget about her after the finale.  Definitely time for this show to end.

 

[Padma]

Ever since I realized how awful and restrictive the "winner's" contract is, the more I like someone, the less I want him or her to win. Depending how you present yourself and "hustle", it can be so much better for a career to come in 2nd, 3rd...even 6th.

 

In this case, I like all four finalists fine. Although I'm one who feels La Porsche and Trent are superior singers to the other two, it doesn't mean I want them to "win" because I don't think it's necessarily much of a prize. Under these circumstances, maybe I'd go with the argument someone made upthread, that La Porsha probably would have the least opportunities without the contract given her age, singing style and being heavyset. I think the other three might have better opportunities without Borchetta, so at this point I guess I'm rooting for La Porscha to win. (I think Scott wants Trent to win, though, so that will probably be how it goes.)

 

It's very relaxing watching this show when you don't really think much of the prize.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Padma

[bluwater]

Padma, I agree. I am rooting for Dalton because he is my fave and he wants to win so bad. On the other hand, winning will be SO restrictive and I need my bird set free. See what I did there? ;)

Plus, Scottie B is a douchenozzle and I do not wish him on ANY of these people.

[Qoass]

 

Sia’s eyes, in fact any set of eyes, are a major tool of communication.  (I’ve no opinion on Daft Punk or Slipknot as I don’t listen to them, and barely know who they are.)  That’s why we say “the eyes are the windows to the soul”, and it is in fact a body language truism that we’re told not to trust people who won’t look you in the eyes, or who go about wearing sunglasses to shield their eyes.

 

Eek!  Don't tell Stevie Wonder!

 

Just kidding.  I can't help but wonder if Sia is hiding her age more than her attractiveness.

 

And I don't understand how so many people can talk about their personal connection to a person they've never met personally.  I think there's frequently a difference between what we see on TV and what we read or hear second hand from "insiders" and what happens in real life.

[suebee12]

 

that La Porsha probably would have the least opportunities without the contract given her age

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't she just 22? 23 at the most? I am not a fan but her age certainly isn't a detriment.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't she just 22? 23 at the most? I am not a fan but her age certainly isn't a detriment.

 

She is 22.  She sings with a heart full of much more experience and maturity!

[ari333]

After her performance  did she say (with that wig on) that she is blind as a bat? or blind? OR whatever she said? There are some folks who are really blind and don't have a choice.

[QTBlueMoon]

sorry, what is bewp?

[proserpina65]

...and how many times did Simon say "...it's a singing competition."

Except it's not 100% a singing contest and hasn't been from very early on.  People vote for the contestants they like for a variety of reasons, and it's not always the best singer (which is a subjective thing anyway) who wins.

I'm just not interested in the sentiment that vocals are secondary on a singing competition.

To be honest, and I don't know if this changed once Simon left or if it changed after they allowed instruments, but there's a lack of competitiveness in these Idols over the past few seasons that really affects the show. If people like Mackenzie and Dalton can skate by on looks and aw shucks appeal, they never have to worry about being very good.

It had nothing to do with Simon leaving or allowing instruments.  AI hasn't been purely a singing competition from almost the beginning.  Heck, Simon pimped contestants based as much on looks as talent.

[Biggie B]

sorry, what is bewp?

 

I had to Google this, since I didn't didn't know. Unfortunately, I'm at work, and full access to Urban Dictionary is denied - but I did see this much:

 

"The noise made after Billy Gunn's "Mr Ass" theme tune and now signifying the end of a joke that rhymes with 'Ass Man' made famous in meme form."

 

Unfortunately, this doesn't help me at all, so...perhaps someone else can chime in!