S02.E06: Bali Ha'i

[ghoulina]

I think he was shaken up by the ordeal. We think of Mike as fearless, but he is early in his criminal career. Also, "fearless" people generally feel fear, they just ignore it and do what they need to do.

 

Yea, I definitely thought his hand was shaking because he was scared. Just as with thinking Mike's handling of the Tuco situation originally was "out of character", it might be hard to imagine that Mike could be scared. But you're right, and I said this last week, Mike is just now getting involved in this underworld. This isn't BB Mike. We're seeing his journey, as much as we're seeing Jimmy/Saul's. We're learning what MADE Mike the kind of badass who doesn't do half measures. 

[RCharter]

So, I've been thinking through the fraud thing to. I believe fraud is a specific intent crime, which means you have to prove the intent to defraud the victim. I don't know if you can prove intent merely through accepting the check, or if you would need to do something more to show the specific intent to defraud (like actually cashing the check)>

Fraud requires a misrepresentation, knowing it's a misrepresentation, intended to mislead, does mislead, and causes injury. The con has all of those except injury -- not cashing the check. (And BTW, they'd need to set up a Zebra Station company to cash the check, as it's made out to it, not to Kim or Jimmy.)

Also, yes, the client can go with Kim to a new firm, just as it just left one firm for HHM. They hired HHM; they can fire HHM.

Fraud is a specific intent crime, you must have the intent to cause the injury to the victim, so, not merely the intent to mislead, but the intent to defraud.  So, there is really no way to prove the intent to defraud or to cause injury if the check has not been cashed. 

 

It also sounds like the retainer agreement between HHM and the Bank was for a specific matter, while there is always a right to fire an attorney, it would make little sense for the bank to follow Kim if she isn't doing much work on their case.  There isn't even much to suggest that this would be a specialized area for her.

Edited March 24, 2016 by RCharter

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Fraud is a specific intent crime, you must have the intent to cause the injury to the victim, so, not merely the intent to mislead, but the intent to defraud.  So, there is really no way to prove the intent to defraud or to cause injury if the check has not been cashed.

Not cashing the check just changes it from fraud to attempted fraud. They put enough effort into the deceit that it'd really be up to Kim and Jimmy to prove lack of intent. Procrastination in completing the crime won't do it.

[RCharter]

Not cashing the check just changes it from fraud to attempted fraud. They put enough effort into the deceit that it'd really be up to Kim and Jimmy to prove lack of intent. Procrastination in completing the crime won't do it.

Attempt is also a specific intent crime, you have to have the specific intent that the crime be completed.  If there is no intent to actually defraud the victim, than there is no attempt to defraud.

[PrincessSteel]

Kim always seemed too sensible to me to get involved with her boss romantically, but maybe Howard has a thing for Kim he's never acted on and that's why he's taking all of this so personally?

Bosses can take things their proteges do extremely personally without there being some sort of sexual or romantic underlying reason, of course. It's just a thought.

It doesn't have to be sexual/romantic. It has just always seemed that Kim is treading carefully around Howard, more than a partner/associate relationship would require. She is making up for SOMETHING in their mutual past. The extremely icy walk through HHM came off more like feuding siblings than anything else, but maybe it seems so to me because Howard was being such a baby. Edited March 24, 2016 by PrincessSteel

[Bryce Lynch]

Well, sure, you and I know that because we're watching Better Call Saul and got to see the Kim-hustling-for-business montage. How does Schweikart know that? She was pretty careful to pretend she was taking lunch to not be seen doing her cold-calls at HH&M.

Many law firms are also very conservative in hiring. It's not about potential, it's about what you've got in hand right now. Lawyers are expensive and need to be able to provide "food" not only for themselves but also the overhead staff resources that they consume. I can see slowly courting a Kim based on potential, but she needs to be bringing the big-money client (or a handful of small/medium clients) with her when she moves. Is the bank client coming with her or was the head of the bank more taken with Howard's walk down memory lane about the image on his passbook as a kid and let's-deal-on-the-golf-course show?

Eh, I find that a little reductionist. If we have to start hating all television/movie characters because they're drug dealers and murderers, that's going to wipe out a lot of the "gritty" shows going all the way back to The Godfather and The Sopranos. It's possible to like a character, or, hell, in Mike's case, admire how well he does his deplorable job and his cajones without having to feel similarly about another character that is equally criminal.

What makes Mike more "likable" (and these are obviously not people with whom most of us would ever hang in real life) is that Mike knows what he is, and Walt spent nearly five seasons/18-24 months blustering about the noble cause that drove all his bad actions when it was nothing more than ego. Walt is constantly running around from crisis to crisis like a chicken with his head cut off, and it's a beautiful contrast to Mike's world-weary, been-there-done-that approach to the job. After Walt killed Gus and met Mike in the desert, Mike told him he didn't know a good thing when he saw it, and he was right.

It's Mike's speech to Playuh -- we're criminals by definition. "Good guy" or not, you are what you are when you engage in criminal activities.

For the record, I liked both Walt and Mike and enjoyed both characters immensely. My only quibble is with those who seem to think Mike was vastly morally superior to Walt. They are in the same ballpark morally, IMO.

I agree with you that Mike's calm, controlled demeanor made him more likable to many. Then again, there is a lot to be said for roof pizza. :)

[Umbelina]

Kim's relationship with Howard could be absolutely anything, since the writers have never made the slightest effort to tell us who Howard is.  They may, now that they've decided to keep Jimmy around longer.

 

Meanwhile, guessing is like playing the LOST game.  He could be anything or anyone to Kim or anyone else.  Maybe he stole Kim's gay boyfriend and they now live together in secrecy.  Maybe he got drunk one night and told Kim he wanted to kill that nutcase Chuck because the company is over a barrel with him.  Maybe he used to be an astronaut, but was drummed out of that because his father objected and forced him into law.  Maybe he plays with Barbie dolls, and Kim knows because he bought one on the way back from a case and Kim saw it.  Maybe anything with this dude.  He's a blank canvas, they can do anything they want with him, or leave him that way.

[morgankobi]

I can't envision a high level drug dealer carrying around a traceable gun, or a "dirty" gun.  Even one driving that car.

 

I think the prosecutor will know exactly what the deal is and he won't go any further.  He will know that Hector intimidated and threatened Mike, just like Hector would do to anyone in this situation.  I don't think the DA is going to make a big deal of it, since it probably happens all the time with drug dealers...no one saw anything and people suddenly forget what they saw when the realize who they saw do it.  

Perfect time for the DA to maybe have a chat with some friends at the DEA to get more info...

[ZaldamoWilder]

I wonder if THAT guy might be running a con on them. How, I don't know.

I'm not sure if anyone has said this in so many words (re: Kim), but for most of us, making a big career change in our mid-40s is a pretty big deal (vs 20s or 30s).

TY to all who explained the doormat; as with so much in teeveeland, it went so far over my punkin head.

 

I like it.  What if he's the whale hunter and somehow crosses paths with Kim again...... at HHM?  Although my impression is that they don't really do small potatoes.  Corporate law, class action stuff.  But I swear my imagination can see that guy and Howard having a martini. 

 

Mods, {{shittygiggle}} lol.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Attempt is also a specific intent crime, you have to have the specific intent that the crime be completed.  If there is no intent to actually defraud the victim, than there is no attempt to defraud.

Since you can't read minds, you have to go by external clues. We didn't see what transpired, but Jimmy;s comment to Kim about knowing a guy suggests that he thought Kim might have been in it for real, so I'm sure it looked real to observers like the restaurant staff. When you add in Jimmy's past behavior, is anyone really going to buy these two lawyers saying that they were just pretending to commit a felony?

[Captanne]

Does anyone honestly think the restaurant staff would touch that conversation with a ten foot pole?  They will deny anyone even sat there.

[ShadowFacts]

Since you can't read minds, you have to go by external clues. We didn't see what transpired, but Jimmy;s comment to Kim about knowing a guy suggests that he thought Kim might have been in it for real, so I'm sure it looked real to observers like the restaurant staff. When you add in Jimmy's past behavior, is anyone really going to buy these two lawyers saying that they were just pretending to commit a felony?

 

 

The mark may just kick himself in the ass after his check isn't cashed and he can't reach Jimmy and Kim at the fake contact info they gave him.  Or, he may not like it that his check is out there with some scammers with his signature and routing number, and maybe his memory is jogged as to Jimmy's face from the billboard caper reports.  It's a stretch, but Jim and Kim would have to explain how they were just having fun and this wasn't a securities fraud attempt.  Maybe no charges are filed, but from what's been said in this forum about law firms protecting their reputations, they would both get sacked.  I doubt it will go down this way because a lot has been spent it seems on the two law firms' actors and sets, but this is what Kim should have been a lot more worried about.  She may not be recognized, but Jimmy doesn't mind being in the spotlight. 

[TVFan17]

Kim's relationship with Howard could be absolutely anything, since the writers have never made the slightest effort to tell us who Howard is.  They may, now that they've decided to keep Jimmy around longer.

 

Meanwhile, guessing is like playing the LOST game.  He could be anything or anyone to Kim or anyone else.  Maybe he stole Kim's gay boyfriend and they now live together in secrecy.  Maybe he got drunk one night and told Kim he wanted to kill that nutcase Chuck because the company is over a barrel with him.  Maybe he used to be an astronaut, but was drummed out of that because his father objected and forced him into law.  Maybe he plays with Barbie dolls, and Kim knows because he bought one on the way back from a case and Kim saw it.  Maybe anything with this dude.  He's a blank canvas, they can do anything they want with him, or leave him that way.

 

I would love it if we found out that Howard was the real Smoke Monster... or that he was one of The Others living on the island... or hidden in the Hatch for years... perhaps a secret Ben Linus cohort in a wacky flash-sideways storyline.  (Oh, how I miss the ridiculousness of LOST!)

[Umbelina]

Personally, I don't think they had a plan for Howard at all, he was just there to move Jimmy to becoming Saul.  I do think we will see more about Howard now that Jimmy is sticking a while.  I kind of hope he's in the closet and gay.  I don't think Vince and crew have had a compelling gay character before, and the one visual clue we have about Howard is that he is a snappy dresser, and always well groomed.  The most interesting thing about him before was him telling Kim that Chuck made him do it, but now, we even have reason to doubt that.  Who is the real asshole to Kim and to Jimmy?  Chuck or Howard?  Personally, even if it's always been Howard, I will still hate having Chuck on screen more, because it's always the same old routine with him.

 

"Jimmy WRONGED ME!"  here, and there, and there too, and then back then, and now, and before that, and once when we were kids, and then that summer of 96, and the fall too, oh and back in school, and that time with  dad, and that time in Chicago, and also in Cicero, and then ABQ several times, let me tell you all about those after I finish telling you about all the things he did that harmed me in 1989!

[monagatuna]

She won't though.

 

The guy made it very clear it was an obvious conflict of interest and she would not be on that case. 

 

ETA

Then again, they could be shady, or she might be worried about some kind of pressure to spill information.  Legal guys, want to chime in here on this kind of thing?

This may have already been covered, but no, she can still work with the opposing firm. They would have to erect what's called an "ethical wall" (used to be called a "Chinese wall" which is no longer commonly used) around her work. She wouldn't have access to any of the Sandpiper case info or files, and she would not be permitted to offer her opinion or help to any of the attorneys or staff working on Sandpiper. Any accidental transmission to or from her about the case would be destroyed and unusable.

 

Conflicts like this used to bar attorneys from working with opposing firms, but that was back in the day when you were expected to spend your entire career at the same firm and eventually get your name on the building. That's so rare anymore that enforcing a rule like that would effectively make it impossible for an attorney to have any kind of real career.

[shapeshifter]

The mark may just kick himself in the ass after his check isn't cashed and he can't reach Jimmy and Kim at the fake contact info they gave him.  Or, he may not like it that his check is out there with some scammers with his signature and routing number, and maybe his memory is jogged as to Jimmy's face from the billboard caper reports.

Oo. Good point. Jimmy can't be both running cons and advertising his face.

[PreBabylonia]

This may have already been covered, but no, she can still work with the opposing firm. They would have to erect what's called an "ethical wall" (used to be called a "Chinese wall" which is no longer commonly used) around her work. She wouldn't have access to any of the Sandpiper case info or files, and she would not be permitted to offer her opinion or help to any of the attorneys or staff working on Sandpiper. Any accidental transmission to or from her about the case would be destroyed and unusable.

 

Conflicts like this used to bar attorneys from working with opposing firms, but that was back in the day when you were expected to spend your entire career at the same firm and eventually get your name on the building. That's so rare anymore that enforcing a rule like that would effectively make it impossible for an attorney to have any kind of real career.

 

The Good Wife uses "the Chinese Wall" term frequently. I wonder if that means that TGW uses consultants that haven't worked within a law firm for a long time.

 

Regarding the issue about the Ice Station Zebra Associates cheque, I really don't think the police would bother to investigate. They tend to get involved when there are frequent incidents, complaints from financial institutions, or substantial media attention. Although these cons could definitely impact the lawyers careers, I don't think anyone will find out. I'm pretty sure their mark is just the type of person to want to hide his gullibility. When he can't get hold of them, he'll simply put a stop payment on the cheque.

[RCharter]

Since you can't read minds, you have to go by external clues. We didn't see what transpired, but Jimmy;s comment to Kim about knowing a guy suggests that he thought Kim might have been in it for real, so I'm sure it looked real to observers like the restaurant staff. When you add in Jimmy's past behavior, is anyone really going to buy these two lawyers saying that they were just pretending to commit a felony?

Absolutely, and the biggest external clue is that no one cashed the check, and no one has shown any interest in cashing the check.  The longer someone fails to cash a check, the fact that there is no business set up to cash the check, the less able you are to prove that there was any intent to cash the check or to defraud the victim. You're allegedly running a scam and you've kept the check and shown no interest in cashing it?  It negates any idea of the specific intent to defraud.  Generally, someone looking to defraud someone cashes the check as soon as possible, but weeks and months later and no one has cashed the check?  You find the check displayed as a trophy?  That wouldn't rise to the level of specific intent, not for an actual crime of fraud, and not for attempt to defraud.

Edited March 26, 2016 by RCharter

[RCharter]

Does anyone honestly think the restaurant staff would touch that conversation with a ten foot pole?  They will deny anyone even sat there.

How much did the staff even hear of the conversation?  And even if they did, contextually, scammers don't sit around holding onto checks.  

[Ohwell]

Wouldn't the mark just call the bank and put a stop payment on the check after, say, about a week of them not cashing the check?  

[ElDosEquis]

Try to remember or describe someone you have had a conversation with at a bar over drinks, then add the fact that his sister is a piece?

 

The guy was probably trying for a double play, making some money and hooking up with the sister, after all, you just gave her a 10k check. She was 50% of the team, every guy would be drooling to get a chance to hit it.

Edited March 26, 2016 by ElDosEquis

[ShadowFacts]

Naturally stopping payment is the way to go, and the guy would do it probably after sobering up and not wait to see if it got cashed.  A crime isn't going to be charged.  But my point originally was it is way too risky for Kim to go around doing a charade under a false identity and signing a contract in one instance, and inducing a guy to invest in a bogus company in another.  It's not what ethical, smart lawyers do.  That would be exceedingly embarrassing to try to explain if anyone ever did run into her and recognize her again, and Howard got wind of it.  In fact, I don't think she would need to explain for more than about 30 seconds before being fired. 

[Ohwell]

Naturally stopping payment is the way to go, and the guy would do it probably after sobering up and not wait to see if it got cashed.  A crime isn't going to be charged.  But my point originally was it is way too risky for Kim to go around doing a charade under a false identity and signing a contract in one instance, and inducing a guy to invest in a bogus company in another.  It's not what ethical, smart lawyers do.  That would be exceedingly embarrassing to try to explain if anyone ever did run into her and recognize her again, and Howard got wind of it.  In fact, I don't think she would need to explain for more than about 30 seconds before being fired. 

Oh, I know that it was still unethical.  I was just wondering if the guy did the stop payment, then Jimmy and Kim would be completely off the hook.

 

Frankly, I don't understand why Kim, on the one hand, is doing stuff like this while, on the other hand, chastising Jimmy for being...Jimmy.  

[Blakeston]

So, I've been thinking through the fraud thing to.  I believe fraud is a specific intent crime, which means you have to prove the intent to defraud the victim.  I don't know if you can prove intent merely through accepting the check, or if you would need to do something more to show the specific intent to defraud (like actually cashing the check.

Courts have rejected the "But I didn't cash the check" defense. (Here's one example.)  A signed check is considered something of value, and accepting a check from someone is accepting something of value from them.

 

I do think we will see more about Howard now that Jimmy is sticking a while.  I kind of hope he's in the closet and gay.  I don't think Vince and crew have had a compelling gay character before

That depends on how you interpret Gus. But they haven't given us a significant character who's been confirmed as gay.

[RCharter]

Courts have rejected the "But I didn't cash the check" defense. (Here's one example.)  A signed check is considered something of value, and accepting a check from someone is accepting something of value from them.

 

That depends on how you interpret Gus. But they haven't given us a significant character who's been confirmed as gay.

This case has glaring differences.  First and foremost, the case focuses on the person who wrote the check, not the person who received the check.  Secondly, all checks written in this case were cashed and/or deposited.  Even the precedent case quoted in the case you found involved a check that was actually cashed (by a third party). Third, the court's discussion an uncashed check is in its discussion of money laundering, and not fraud.   Fourth, the argument is not about specific intent, but rather about what constitutes proceeds under the statute. The only specific intent discussion is focused on the party who wrote the check and what his intent was at the time he drafted the check, not the intent of the person who received the check (and ultimately deposited/cashed the check)

Edited March 28, 2016 by RCharter

[Hanahope]

The writers seem to recognize that a realistic depiction of the world of big firm corporate civil litigation does not exactly make for thrilling television.

 

That's why TGW condenses their cases all into a trial or hearing before a judge and they get resolved in a day or two.

 

 

There have been two references to Jimmy's ex-wives. In the Breaking Bad episode "Green Light," Saul tries to talk Walt out of getting into it with Ted Beneke after Skyler confesses that she's been fucking him. He says, "I caught my second wife screwing my stepdad, okay? It's a cruel world, Walt."

 

 

If Kim is Jimmy's second ex wife, and this story is true, we haven't met the step dad yet.  Such would be interesting, since I believe there was already a reference to Jimmy's mom being dead.  I can't believe Kim would sleep with either Chuck or Howard at this point.

 

I think Kim does want to leave HH&M, but is a bit scared to do so.  Leaving a known job for an unknown job is scary no matter what.  You never know what you're getting into.  Considering that Kim should know by this point that essentially HH&M doesn't care that much about her beyond her ability to bring in one client (and who knows if that will lead to more).

 

I do think its interesting that she started at HH&M in the mail room and essentially worked her way up, just like Jimmy wanted to, but for whatever reason, the firm agreed to pay for her law school and is, or at least was, fully accepting of her as an attorney on a possible partnership track.  Not many firms, especially 'blue blood type firms' would do that.  I had one firm that turned its nose up at me because when moving to a new state, I had to work as a paralegal for a year until I took that state's bar exam and got my license to practice in that state (no reciprocity for California).  It definitely goes to show that Chuck was the only reason why Jimmy was denied a job at HH&M, and why Jimmy and Kim became close.

 

I did think it interesting that it showed Schwiegert attending the hearing, on a simple discovery matter, with his associate.  It is so rare that I ever see more than one attorney at hearings, particularly early discovery hearings.  Clients rarely enjoying paying for second attorney to essentially sit around and do nothing in court.  So for Schweigert to comment to Kim that HH&M is abandoning her because a partner didn't come to the hearing, made no sense to me.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Hanahope

[Umbelina]

Boy, Kim has a boring bedroom.  Drab colors, and almost nothing personal in it at all.  That must be intentional, because I know Vince's crew had a lot of pride about their sets during BB.

[qtpye]

Boy, Kim has a boring bedroom.  Drab colors, and almost nothing personal in it at all.  That must be intentional, because I know Vince's crew had a lot of pride about their sets during BB.

 

 

Yeah, I was surprised at her bedroom.  I thought she would have a very distinctive, Martha Stewart, type of decor.

 

Perhaps, because she works so much, she does not really care about decorating her personal space.

[ByTor]

Maybe he plays with Barbie dolls, and Kim knows because he bought one on the way back from a case and Kim saw it.

OK, I would totally watch an entire episode about this!

[Umbelina]

Yeah, in Kim's bedroom the colors clash too, or don't go together, drapes, bedspread, wallpaper all just seem careless, and those ugly boxed art things above her bed on the vast walls just scream "Saw it at Ross, figured it will word as well as anything" or maybe even that they were there when she arrived.

 

You can see some personal clutter in the bathroom, some plain white cup thing holding her toothbrush and stuff.

 

She's not into decorating, or yeah, is rarely there long enough to care, yet she owns a racy car.  Hmmm

[qtpye]

Maybe the car was provided by the firm, the same way Saul got a car when he started work at Davis and Main?

[MaryPatShelby]

My quote function didn't work, but there was a somewhat snarky comment to someone who noticed that the director, or producer, or something of this episode had done some work on Breaking Bad.  Though that comment was not addressed to me, I guess I want to remind everyone that some people watched BB but didn't memorize every director, actor, character, or crew member. There might have to be some understanding of that fact when someone makes a comment that seems like a "well, DUH" to everyone else.  Case in point:

 

The problem with this is that we're back to Walt's insecurity and ego as to why he has that that perception Elliot and Gretchen/Gray Matter.  

Why are we "back" to this?  This is a discussion board for a specific Better Call Saul episode, not Season 2 of BB.  If mods are reading, is there a possibility of sub-sections within an episode thread - one for episode discussion and one for a discussion of that episode's relationship to Breaking Bad?  Just a thought, and I understand that everyone's MMV.

[Ohwell]

Why are we "back" to this?  This is a discussion board for a specific Better Call Saul episode, not Season 2 of BB.  If mods are reading, is there a possibility of sub-sections within an episode thread - one for episode discussion and one for a discussion of that episode's relationship to Breaking Bad?  Just a thought, and I understand that everyone's MMV.

 

As has already been discussed, there is a Better Call Saul episode thread without any references to Breaking Bad  (see below).  The mods set that up last season so that those who didn't want to hear about BB could post there, and those of us who've seen BB and make references to it, can post in episode threads such as these.  So, we're free to discuss BB stuff here.

 

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/22170-better-talk-saul-bcs-only/page-3#entry1965194

Edited April 3, 2016 by Ohwell

[scenario]

The check is probably a non-issue unless they need it to be for the purpose of the plot. Many victims of fraud do not report it because they don't want to look foolish. Kim said he was a perfect mark so he's probably an out of towner. I would bet the guy woke up the next morning when he sobered up and called to back out of the agreement.  When the number didn't get him to where he expected he stop payment on the check.  He doesn't want to have to explain why he was in a bar talking to an attractive woman to his wife/girlfriend. The check was never cashed. The only thing it has cost him is the price to stop payment. He probably figures he's dodged a bullet and wants to forget about it. Even if he reports it I doubt the police would put much resources into solving the crime.

 

I seem to be the only one around here who likes Chuck, but only in small doses. He's so smart but he is terrible with dealing with people. He totally misplayed Jimmy. When Jimmy was a new lawyer he should have hired him as a first step lawyer and tell him that he's giving him a chance but he's got to work his up like everyone else. Jimmy starts in document review for a year or two. No court and no dealing with clients. I would give Jimmy two months before he either quits or messes up so badly that Chuck could "reluctantly" fire him. Chuck looks good to the staff, doesn't burn bridges with Jimmy and gets his brother out of his hair without looking like the bad guy. When Jimmy turns into Saul, he can honestly say he tried to help. 

[ZaldamoWilder]

My quote function didn't work, but there was a somewhat snarky comment to someone who noticed that the director, or producer, or something of this episode had done some work on Breaking Bad.  Though that comment was not addressed to me, I guess I want to remind everyone that some people watched BB but didn't memorize every director, actor, character, or crew member. There might have to be some understanding of that fact when someone makes a comment that seems like a "well, DUH" to everyone else.  Case in point:

 

Why are we "back" to this?  This is a discussion board for a specific Better Call Saul episode, not Season 2 of BB.  If mods are reading, is there a possibility of sub-sections within an episode thread - one for episode discussion and one for a discussion of that episode's relationship to Breaking Bad?  Just a thought, and I understand that everyone's MMV.

I watched BB and I have to agree with this. Sometimes something will get mentioned here and I'll think man, ya'll are on it, I would not have recognized them/it/her. Sometimes though it's actually a bit of a distraction because for all the BB references, which again, I enjoy in the show, our reference to them makes me either rewatch for what I missed the first time or look at it in a different context and that can be distracting. For example there was a scene a couple episodes ago where Mike was talking to Nacho about the plan to get rid of Tuco and advised him as to the disadvantages of killing him. On the boards the next day it was said that Mike had said the place would be crawling with Salamancas. Crawling is an essential description as it harkens specific BB episode imagery. When I watched that back, I realized that was not what Mike said. He said something similar, but the point was it made me concentrate on the minutiae of the script as opposed to enjoying the scene overall. I know there's a thread for BB absent BCS, but I also watched BB. I kind of want to get a kick for how brilliant this show on its own.

[RCharter]

 He totally misplayed Jimmy. When Jimmy was a new lawyer he should have hired him as a first step lawyer and tell him that he's giving him a chance but he's got to work his up like everyone else. Jimmy starts in document review for a year or two. No court and no dealing with clients. I would give Jimmy two months before he either quits or messes up so badly that Chuck could "reluctantly" fire him. Chuck looks good to the staff, doesn't burn bridges with Jimmy and gets his brother out of his hair without looking like the bad guy. When Jimmy turns into Saul, he can honestly say he tried to help. 

So much this right here.  He could have made it work for him, and maybe it would have embarrassed Chuck a little, but people would have just felt sorry for him and Chuck would be seen as an even bigger hero.  I would say two months of honest, boring, mundane document review and Jimmy would have been back to slippin'  Of course there is a small chance that Jimmy finds his way around with charm, but it would have been such a small risk.

[scenario]

The thing about document review is its a numbers thing, not a people thing. Jimmy can talk all he wants but if he's producing two boxes of work a day and everyone around him does ten, the talk don't matter. Chuck would be in his rights to tell Jimmy he's got to put out more work or else. Even if the other lawyers like Jimmy a lot, I can't see them doing his work for him or letting him totally slack off. Chuck can give him two or three chances more than he would someone else before firing him and everyone would feel that Jimmy deserved what he got and if anything Chuck was too forgiving. Chuck may be a little embarrassed but if he just follows the rules and cuts Jimmy just a little more slack than necessary, he'd look like a caring older brother. When he finally fired Jimmy, or Jimmy quit it would help moral rather than hurt it because its clear that management doesn't play favorites. Even a senior partners brother get fired when he doesn't live up to the companies tough standards. 

[RCharter]

^^brilliant.

[ByTor]

I seem to be the only one around here who likes Chuck, but only in small doses.

I'll actually one-up you...not only do I like Chuck, but I wish there were more Chuck. To be clear, I don't like like Chuck, I think he's a terrible person, but I like what his story brings to BCS. I do admit, Breaking Bad is far and away my all time favorite tv show, and I loved the Saul character. So, while of course I want to see how Jimmy becomes Saul, I appreciate that BCS is its own show with its own characters, and as such I'm enjoying Chuck's and Kim's drama. As a prequel, I do feel it's necessary to introduce BB characters into the mix, and I am enjoying Mike's story playing out, but I'd be very disappointed in BCS if it were overloaded with BB characters (not that I'm saying an "overload" is what other viewers want).

[Umbelina]

Never mind.

 

I decided to start a new topic (Yikes!) and a post like the one that was here, belongs in a thread like the one I started.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Umbelina

[Lingo]

I read this whole thread and didn't see anyone else bring this up. I was confused by the final scene in the 'con' but it seems I was the only one. When Kim goes into the bathroom, Jimmy talks to the 'mark' alone, and it seemed to me that he was trying to persuade the mark NOT to take the bait. Am I wrong about this? That's how I took it and I was surprised by it, because Jimmy up to that point seemed very enthusiastic by the idea of the con. I thought maybe he was trying to protect Kim from herself, which in itself was surprising to me, but later it turns out the mark DID take the con, and Jimmy asks Kim if she wants his help cashing the check, without any apparent hesitation. So I'm wondering if I completely misread that scene. If I did, I have no idea what the intent was.

[ShadowFacts]

I believe it was a bit of reverse psychology, Jimmy saying Kim really shouldn't be doing this, taking on another investor, etc.  To make it seem even more enticing, so the guy just can't resist getting in on such a great opportunity that has already attracted so many eager investors. 

[Lingo]

Maybe so? I don't know, they made a point of them having the conversation while Kim was away though, as if Jimmy was doing something behind her back. Another thought I had was that maybe the mark was trying to horn in on some other business venture that Kim had mentioned, perhaps to hit on her, and Jimmy was trying to push him away to signal that she's "taken"?

[scenario]

Its standard con technique, good cop/bad cop. One person is really eager and the other one acts like they're on the marks side. It makes the whole thing seem more believable. If both of them were pushing it, the mark would be more likely to suspect something. 

[Lingo]

Hmm. I guess I'll have to rewatch. It felt too deliberate and drawn-out just to be part of the con, but then again, this show loves to pad out its air time.

[rollerblade]

She's not into decorating, or yeah, is rarely there long enough to care, yet she owns a racy car.  Hmmm

 

Haha, had to snicker at the description "racy" car.  I have one (a 2003 gts), and while it looks sporty (not really), it drives like a sedan and corners like a delivery van. I've driven an old Oldsmobile that has better turning radius, no joke. Besides, that 3rd gen Eclipse's black paint would not last in ABQ sun. Kim did not do her research, or it was indeed a company leased mobile. :P

[Umbelina]

Yeah, but it LOOKS racy!

 

;)