S04.E17: You've Got Me, Who's Got You?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Note: this is the first episode in Elementary's new Sunday night time slot!
 

When a vigilante dressed as a comic book hero is murdered, it's up to Holmes and Watson to find the man's true identity and locate his killer; Morland tries to charm Watson into doing him a favor.

Promo:

Edited March 11, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[jch323]

And so it begins ...

The official "Elementary" twitter feed announced tonight's episode will air at 10:35 EST/9:35 CST because of March Madness.

[roseha]

Thanks, I never watch Good Wife, so I  had no idea how long this was going to take.

[Pyralis]

Thanks Global Canada for showing this on time.  "I was bitten by a radioactive detective"   snerk

 

[jch323]

I also liked how one of The Midnight Ranger's numerous deaths included falling over a waterfall while stuck in embrace with his arch-nemesis.

[roseha]

And Joan's shock that Sherlock had taken an original comic out of its plastic bag.  Sherlock: "How else was I going to read it?"

 

They did make another strong episode out of what could have been a fairly light-hearted subject matter.  I hope Joan will have no further involvement in Morlock's business though, as she indicated.  I wonder why she didn't tell Sherlock about that last confrontation with the mole, or if she was going to tell him later.

 

Next week with Sherlock and Fiona looks promising.

[shapeshifter]

I really shouldn't try watching shows at this hour--especially when it's even half an hour later. All I remember is Joan's wardrobe. And the interesting bit at the end: So does this mean she's hiring the mole in Morland's house to be her mole and Sherlock won't know? Plausible deniability, maybe, but he'll figure it out quickly.

[possibilities]

Joan is defying both Sherlock and Morland-- wow.

[Actionmage]

Shallow notes for now:

* Joan's teal and black outfit was amazing and I wish I could get that shirt and tie combo.

* The gray top and the gray pencil skirt  with black points/triangles pointing down from the waist? Super cool.

*Hee! Sherlock making Everyone strip to their birthday suits to help Joan's charity.

*The publisher for the comic book company was a woman!  We didn't see her but, "she thought it'd be fun to hire the grandson..." was the line the older gentleman said.

*We had plenty of Bell in this episode. Yay for Bell fans!

 

.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Actionmage

[GaT]

I liked Sherlock pointing to to cut outs of super heroes while Joan identified how they became super heroes.

[AimingforYoko]

Joan trying to play on Morland's level? She is formidable, but this can't end well.

[Gregg247]

I didn't care for the mystery on this one.  It seemed  like a generic plot that could have been done on any cop/detective show but was "customized" for Elementary.  Very disappointing.  

 

I'm still not sure why Joan has such animus for Morland.  I get that she was uncomfortable around him originally because of all the stories she'd heard about him from Sherlock, but now she just seems to have such a huge dislike for him on her own.  He's a creepy dude, but he's always been polite and gracious to her (as far as we've seen).  I don't get her rudeness to him, or her plan to use the Mole on the inside of his company.  Hopefully, we'll learn more about this as the series goes on.  I'd like to think that Joan (who seems very nice to most people she encounters) has some kind of overall plan she's working on here.  

 

I'm going to trust the writers on this.

[Trey]

I really enjoyed this episode even though I had to stay up late for it.

 

Have we met the Mole before?  Someone in Morland's household or office obviously, but I don't really have any memory of him.

 

I had the grandson as the perp pegged from the start.

 

Another good line from Sherlock, to the Standard Bearer, paraphrased because I don't remember it exactly, "Lots of people come to my door wearing masks; some are here to kill me and some are here to have sex".

[Primetimer]

Some of them have even worse day jobs than Clark Kent!

Read the story

[minamurray78]

"I was bitten by a radioactive detective." lol

 

It wasn't the greatest episode ever, but it didn't fail to amuse me with several moments, like Sherlock making Everyone strip naked for charity, 'cause "better safe than sorry", Sherlock's matter-of-fact "yes, how elese was I going to read it?" and many others stated above.

 

I was surprised by Joan's move abd turning the mole for her own. Some iniciative apart from the Holmes boys. I wonder if one of them will figure her out, and if so, who first.

[Writing Wrongs]

Why did they have to move nights? Now it will always be on late, what a pain. As it is, there were 15 minutes left and my CBS channel froze so I have no idea how it ended.

[wonderwoman]

"Why did they have to move nights? Now it will always be on late, what a pain."

Thankfully, we won't have to deal with Sunday delays until the US Open in September. So, enjoy the rest of the season.

[thuganomics85]

Sherlock getting some revenge on Everyone for all the times they embarrassed, was a fun way to open up the episode.  Of course, I hope he is prepared for retribution the next time he needs their aid.

 

Vigilante wannabe superheroes are becoming popular now on procedural shows (off the top of my head, the most recent one I remember was iZombie doing one), but I was entertained.  Loved Sherlock opening up mint condition comics to read them and even understanding the appeal, one he looked past the "skull-sized breasts" and horrible continuity.  And I totally loved the reference to Reichenbach Falls.  I totally didn't see that coming!  But I figured it was the Baxter guy because Michael Mosley tends to play characters who end up not being nice people.

 

Damn, Joan!  I can't believe she found the mole, but is now going to use him to spy on Morland.  That is very, very risky, but pretty awesome.  But things will get ugly once he and/or Sherlock find out about this little play.

[roseha]

Did anyone recognize the actor who played the tailor that Bell interviewed?  I thought I had seen him somewhere.  Maybe he's a Hey It's That Guy?

[Trey]

Did anyone recognize the actor who played the tailor that Bell interviewed?  I thought I had seen him somewhere.  Maybe he's a Hey It's That Guy?

I finally found his name - it's Stephen Singer - I've never heard of him but I sure thought he looked familiar too.

[roomtorome]

I keep waiting - in vain - for LL to have an expression.  Thank god for JLM bringing the spark to their scenes together - 

 

I think Bones and maybe (not sure) even Castle had a superhero murder victim.  They are all blending together the last few years.  If you put a gun to my head I couldn't tell you the origin story of any superhero except Superman and that's mostly because I just don't care - making much of tv rather dead to me.  Sigh.

 

I'm not even touching the Watson wanting a mole inside daddy Holmes organization - too much absurdity in that for me.  

[roseha]

I finally found his name - it's Stephen Singer - I've never heard of him but I sure thought he looked familiar too.

 

Thanks much Trey!

Edited March 21, 2016 by roseha

[tennisgurl]

The superhero stuff was pretty entertaining, and it got some good chuckles out of me ("I was bitten by a radio active detective", Sherlock pondering why more superheros are not dead from cancer) and it was a fun mystery. I am a superhero fan, so I was amused by a lot of the jokes and references, plus Sherlock mocking the whole secret identity thing. If we could just get Sherlock in a room with a few TV superheros I could mention...

 

I have no idea what Joan's deal is with Moreland. Sherlock just does not want him in his life, and that seems to be that. Why is she getting more involved? I have trouble really getting a read on Moreland, and just how nefarious he is, but from Joans perspective, what has he done? Does she really think she can out hustle this guy? Joan is pretty great, dont get me wrong, but Moreland is playing in a different playing field. 

[Twilight Man]

thuganomics85

Vigilante wannabe superheroes are becoming popular now on procedural shows (off the top of my head, the most recent one I remember was iZombie doing one), but I was entertained.

roomtorome

I think Bones and maybe (not sure) even Castle had a superhero murder victim.  They are all blending together the last few years.

 

Don't forget to add NCIS to the list as well.

Abby: Can I get a picture with all of you?

Female Vigilante: Sure. By the way, I really love your superhero costume.

Abby: I'm not wearing a costume??

[MissLucas]

That was my favorite episode this season. I laughed out loud several times and enjoyed all the fun the show clearly had with spoofing super-heroes. And I loved the little shout-out to the Reichenbach Fall. But what I thought was really well done was that they did not simply mock wanna-be vigilantes. Even if Sherlock spent a good deal of the episode eye-rolling at the silliness of comic superheroes (In what universe are these people not all dead from cancer? - indeed) and the people who get caught in that world he wanted the murder victim to get the respect he deserved and he wanted his successor to be as safe as possible. That was quite touching.

 

And I'm looking forward to the Joan - Morland arc. The final twist took me by surprise, this should get interesting.

[MisterGlass]

I couldn't stay up to watch this in it's entirety last night so finished it today.  There were some jokes, in particular the Reichenbach Fall reference.  And what irony, Joan hosting a clothing drive for a charity!

 

Of the things Morland has done that are sketchy, donating to Joan's charity as a way to obligate her bothers me most.  This is someone with whom he has an established relationship, and instead of reaching out to her in an upfront way, he tries to put her off balance and then behaves as though he did nothing devious.  It shows either an extreme discomfort with trusting another person or an inability to separate his business behavior from personal interaction.  I'm glad Joan called him on that.  As for her having a mole in his office, that's dangerous to her and to the mole.

 

 

I hope Joan will have no further involvement in Morlock's business though, as she indicated.

 

I could definitely see him as a Morlock.

[helent]

Another good line from Sherlock, to the Standard Bearer, paraphrased because I don't remember it exactly, "Lots of people come to my door wearing masks; some are here to kill me and some are here to have sex".

"One time it was both." (also paraphrased due to bad memory).

[roseha]

I could definitely see him as a Morlock.

 

Ha, I have no idea where I got that since I've never read the books you linked to.  Maybe I  heard about it somewhere, or I mixed up Morland and Warlock :)

[sinkwriter]

 

I also liked how one of The Midnight Ranger's numerous deaths included falling over a waterfall while stuck in embrace with his arch-nemesis.

 

That, and Sherlock having Joan tell him the backstories of all the cardboard cutout superheroes in the comic book office, was probably my favorite of the whole episode.  *GRIN*

 

 

I had the grandson as the perp pegged from the start.

 

I did, too, but mainly because he played a really psycho bad guy on Castle (in a recurring role) so as soon as I saw him, I said, "Oh, he's the bad guy." I would have been surprised if he hadn't been. Though I did appreciate that he broke down and actually seemed sorry, in the end. I thought he was going to be all righteous fury and psychotic underneath.

 

 

I'm still not sure why Joan has such animus for Morland.  I get that she was uncomfortable around him originally because of all the stories she'd heard about him from Sherlock, but now she just seems to have such a huge dislike for him on her own.  He's a creepy dude, but he's always been polite and gracious to her (as far as we've seen).

 

Yeah, she's REALLY pushed him from day 1, and I just don't know that it feels like Joan as a character to me. I know she's heard stories from Sherlock, but 1) I would imagine she'd take that with a grain of salt, given that Sherlock is the son and could be struggling to see things from an unbiased perspective, no matter how smart he is, and 2) she's usually a compassionate person who gives people the opportunity to show her what kind of person they are before she judges them. So I was pretty surprised to see her lay into Morland pretty much immediately. I suppose on some level maybe she thought she needed to establish right off the bat that she wasn't going to be a pushover, and that her allegiance is to his son. But I do think she could have done that more civilly than they have had her behave toward him. 

 

I wonder if the writers pushed her behaviors a little too hard because they wanted it to make sense as a progression of story when they got to this episode and had her blackmail Morland's mole.

 

Did anyone recognize the actor who played the tailor that Bell interviewed?  I thought I had seen him somewhere.

 

Yeah, I couldn't place him at first, but now I remember! He had a great bit part in the pilot episode of White Collar. He played a guy who didn't know an item in his archives was fake, and Matt Bomer's character Neal has to break it to him, "Yeah, it's a fake. It's less than a week old." LOL. He has a nice approach. Definitely a good "that guy." 

 

"I was bitten by a radio active detective", Sherlock pondering why more superheros are not dead from cancer

He had a lot of very funny lines in this episode! I liked that.

[MissLucas]

Joan's reaction to Morland is not all based on hearsay. Given her job at the beginning of the show she knew that her clients/patients were not exactly reliable narrators. I remember that she was trying to mend fences with Sherlock and his father. IIRC there was more than one episode where she got all excited because Morland had announced a visit and then - confirming Sherlock's cynicism - did not show up. That and being a daily witness to the damage of Morland's parenting style is more than enough for me to justify her coldness.

[basil]

Yeah, she's REALLY pushed [Morland] from day 1, and I just don't know that it feels like Joan as a character to me.

 

 

I've talked about this before - the writers seem to play a little fast and loose with Joan. I hated the way they had her treat Lestrade after he had been mugged. Yes, he had a drink in the backyard (after he had been beaten bloody and robbed) and she somehow saw that as a threat to Sherlock's sobriety (even though alcohol was never, as far as we know, an issue with Sherlock). Seemed way out of character for Joan to be as nasty to him as she was at that time. Bring it up later, sure - but she is (was) a doctor with a patient needing tending to, and all she really did was lay into him. Just bugged the hell out of me. That said:

 

IIRC there was more than one episode where she got all excited because Morland had announced a visit and then - confirming Sherlock's cynicism - did not show up. That and being a daily witness to the damage of Morland's parenting style is more than enough for me to justify her coldness.

 

 

This is all very true, and does make a bit more sense than the way she (mis)treated Lestrade.

 

 

Joan is defying both Sherlock and Morland-- wow.

 

 

Wow, indeed. I don't know if I credit this to Lucy's acting, or whether the writers tipped their hand (deliberately or not), but when she told Sherlock she was "having dinner with a friend" on her way to recruit the mole by blackmail, I knew something was up. I can see this blowing up in her face.

[shapeshifter]

Ha, I have no idea where I got that since I've never read the books you linked to.  Maybe I  heard about it somewhere, or I mixed up Morland and Warlock :)

Aw. I just thought you were being really clever.

[frenchtoast]

Also, regarding Joan's attitude toward Morland, he was enlisting Mycroft to get Sherlock back to London, mostly by threatening to cut him off. Especially at the time both of them were going through a bit of a rough patch with the police. And even though he could get private clients, it wasn't what he wanted to do. I think Joan saw that as profoundly misunderstanding his own son and almost intentionally detrimental to his well being. Of course, Morland doesn't owe him money, he's a grown adult and should make his own living. But, to pull out that support, especially still going through recovery, was a pretty shitty thing to do. And I think also informed how Joan saw him. She tried much harder with Mycroft, who she at least she got to know and could see he was trying his best. 

 

On top of that, he's been doing shady stuff with this whole being shot, and he's been manipulating them into working for them instead of coming out and asking them. He never seems forthright or accountable and he comes off as underhanded and untrustworthy. I don't have much of a problem with how Joan dislikes Morland.

[shapeshifter]

Also, regarding Joan's attitude toward Morland...

he's been doing shady stuff with this whole being shot, and he's been manipulating them into working for them instead of coming out and asking them. He never seems forthright or accountable and he comes off as underhanded and untrustworthy. I don't have much of a problem with how Joan dislikes Morland.

Maybe Joan just doesn't trust him to do what's in Sherlock's (or anyone's) best interests, and she thinks it's a matter of life and death to spy on him, since he has proven that he is not often truthful about what's going on.

[DeLurker]

'truthiness" is a word that would apply to Morland.

 

And he's John Noble - so I know there is going to be some unsavory layers to Papa Holmes.

[vibeology]

Yeah, I couldn't place him at first, but now I remember! He had a great bit part in the pilot episode of White Collar. He played a guy who didn't know an item in his archives was fake, and Matt Bomer's character Neal has to break it to him, "Yeah, it's a fake. It's less than a week old." LOL. He has a nice approach. Definitely a good "that guy." 

 

I was really moved by his little monologue about how the Midnight Ranger had brought back hope and a sense of security to the neighbourhood. I think nailing those lines really gave the rest of the episode more weight. People here have mentioned examples of "superheroes" on crime shows and the ones I've seen play it more for a laugh. (Not that this didn't have its jokes, but it never felt like they were at the expense of the victim.) By having someone in the neighbourhood talk about why the Midnight Ranger mattered, I think it made the rest of the investigation more serious and important. Props to that guy for capturing it perfectly because it made the episode work, IMO.

[sinkwriter]

 

I don't have much of a problem with how Joan dislikes Morland.

 

I definitely don't have a problem with her disliking him. He's not to be trusted (and John Noble plays that so, so well). I just feel like she was combative to him right from the start when he arrived in NYC, even storming into his office without being invited or let in by his secretary. That's unlike her. She's not rude. Even when someone's horrible, she's got more of a quiet anger. With this situation it just didn't feel like her - she was on the offensive from the very start, when I would think she'd be quieter, more careful and observant at first, in order to really get a sense of him and how he should be handled. I thought her repeated storming in seemed to give him the upper hand, and that's not what she should want him to have. 

 

Then again, her bluntness may be something she's learning from Sherlock, a guy who definitely has no censor sometimes, even to his own detriment.

Edited March 22, 2016 by sinkwriter

[Athena]

If we look at Morland from Joan's perspective, he's been very rude to Joan even before meeting her. They've exchanged emails, but he's flaked on their meetings more than once. He claimed to care about Sherlock, but all he ever did was throw money or even threaten to evict them. Morland has put a lot of pressure on Sherlock from afar. Joan was protective of Sherlock as his sober companion, but they are now practically family. I think the more she lives with Sherlock, the more she understands the animosity with Morland be it rational or not.

 

She did give Morland a chance when they went to dinner, but her allegiances have always been to Sherlock. I find Morland fascinating, but to Joan, he's always been consistently sneaky with her and Sherlock. He used his employees as a buffer, he never asks for things sincerely or outright, and he has kept a lot of information from both of them. I think Joan is definitely more on the offensive as she's become more experienced.

[MisterGlass]

 

He claimed to care about Sherlock, but all he ever did was throw money or even threaten to evict them.

 

I think the eviction threat may have been a ploy of Mycroft's to try to get Sherlock to leave while he was doing spy things in the city.  However, Morland did give away Sherlock's London home to Mycroft.

 

 

Joan was protective of Sherlock as his sober companion, but they are now practically family.

 

This is very true.  And Sherlock has blindspots when it comes to people with whom he has an emotional history or attachment.  He is only a few months out from a relapse that was due in large part to extreme emotional distress. 

[andromeda331]

Loved Sherlock's getting back at Everyone. Also when Joan came into the room and he say 'you know everyone'

and she says she didn't before he explained they were Everyone. Sherlock wondering how the superheroes

weren't all dead from cancer and the mention of Reichenbach Fall.

[frenchtoast]

Because of this show, every time I hear about the hacking group (and yes, Sherlock, I know that's not the correct descriptive term) Anonymous I always have to fight the urge to correct it to Everyone. No, no, toast, Everyone is fictional. Anonymous is the real one. Truth be told I like Everyone better. 

[Helena Dax]

Ha, I have no idea where I got that since I've never read the books you linked to.  Maybe I  heard about it somewhere, or I mixed up Morland and Warlock :)

 

Have you ever watched Sleepy Hollow? ;)

 

Wow, Joan left me speechless with that move! Let see what happens because Morland is a very, very dangerous man. 

 

Loved this episode, everything about the superheroes was great. Sherlock made me laugh several times. A very light, funny episode, which probably means they're going to break our hearts soon. 

[Clanstarling]

But what I thought was really well done was that they did not simply mock wanna-be vigilantes. Even if Sherlock spent a good deal of the episode eye-rolling at the silliness of comic superheroes (In what universe are these people not all dead from cancer? - indeed) and the people who get caught in that world he wanted the murder victim to get the respect he deserved and he wanted his successor to be as safe as possible. That was quite touching.

I agree. I still find it weird, but I do like that ultimately they treated him with respect.

 

 

Of the things Morland has done that are sketchy, donating to Joan's charity as a way to obligate her bothers me most.

I agree. Of course, the easiest way to deal with that would be to simply thank them for the donation and not feel or acknowledge any obligation. That's been my approach on far more humdrum versions of this tactic in real life. They don't often like to spell it out. Of course, Morland's a different case.

My OCD, once Joan said the amount was $250,000, was all "hey, if you say it's a 5 Zero figure, make sure there are 5 zeros, not just 4. It's not that hard to do - make it $200,000 or $300,000!" It's a curse. LOL.

Edited March 27, 2016 by clanstarling

[AnnieBeez]

 

My OCD, once Joan said the amount was $250,000, was all "hey, if you say it's a 5 Zero figure, make sure there are 5 zeros, not just 4. It's not that hard to do - make it $200,000 or $300,000!" It's a curse. LOL.

 

I had the same problem. Glad to find someone with the same issue.