Party of One: Unpopular TV Opinions

[Irlandesa]

31 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

And Betty is my tragic queen.  I am rewatching this now, and my unpopular opinion is that I love Betty Hofstadt Draper Francis in all her petty glory. 

I have complicated feelings about Mad Men.  Some of it I loved. Some of it I hated. I'm glad I watched but I have no desire to rewatch.  But I agree with you about Betty. I loved her.  And I thought  of all his romantic interests, he had by far the best chemistry with her. They are one of the most stunning couples in TV history.

I've already shared my "Sopranos, it was good but I think it gets too much credit" rant on here before so I won't go down that road again. 

[BlackberryJam]

I never watched Mad Men because the very sight of Jon Hamm makes my skin crawl. I don't know him. Never met him. But something about him screams, "RUN AWAY BEFORE HE LOCKS YOU IN A BASEMENT AND SKINS YOU ALIVE." I have the same reaction to Derek Jeter. It's visceral. 

[Wiendish Fitch]

2 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

I never watched Mad Men because the very sight of Jon Hamm makes my skin crawl. I don't know him. Never met him. But something about him screams, "RUN AWAY BEFORE HE LOCKS YOU IN A BASEMENT AND SKINS YOU ALIVE." 

You may or may not want to read about his involvement in a violent hazing during his college days. 

[Ohiopirate02]

14 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

I never watched Mad Men because the very sight of Jon Hamm makes my skin crawl. I don't know him. Never met him. But something about him screams, "RUN AWAY BEFORE HE LOCKS YOU IN A BASEMENT AND SKINS YOU ALIVE." I have the same reaction to Derek Jeter. It's visceral. 

I can actually see that, and if the show had Don start to strangle his sidepieces it would have felt in character.  There is a menace to Don and if the show had pivoted into making Don a murderer that still would not have been the most shocking scene in the entire show.  

[BlackberryJam]

36 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

You may or may not want to read about his involvement in a violent hazing during his college days. 

Ugh..disgusting.

25 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I can actually see that, and if the show had Don start to strangle his sidepieces it would have felt in character.  There is a menace to Don and if the show had pivoted into making Don a murderer that still would not have been the most shocking scene in the entire show.  

To be clear. I don’t know Don Draper other than knowing that’s the name of a character Hamm played. My reaction is not to the character; it’s to the actor. I cannot watch him in anything. I cannot look at photos of him on the red carpet. The man creeps me the fuck out.

[DoctorAtomic]

56 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

I have the same reaction to Derek Jeter.

Jeter will at least give you a gift basket. 

38 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

There is a menace to Don and if the show had pivoted into making Don a murderer that still would not have been the most shocking scene in the entire show.  

Funny thing is that Hamm is a great comedic actor imo. 

[Zella]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

While I find Don Draper of Mad Men to be an intriguing enigma, it truly is an ensemble show with great characters in supporting roles.  The female characters in particular are great to watch as they figure out how to navigate the patriarchal world they live in.  Peggy's journey throughout the seven seasons is amazing and so is Joan's.  And Betty is my tragic queen.  I am rewatching this now, and my unpopular opinion is that I love Betty Hofstadt Draper Francis in all her petty glory.  She was right to kick Don to the curb after finding out about him.  Don manipulated her for years and did not deserve her.  

I loved Betty too! I always enjoyed the advertising stuff, too, but Don's personal life was most interesting to me when he was married to Betty, precisely because of Betty. I've often rewatched the first season or two of the show but rarely get around to watching the rest of it, and I think a big part of it is how interesting (but incredibly sad) I find their relationship dynamics.

Spoiler

That reveal at the end of season 1 that she knew all along that he was unfaithful to her is one of those gut-punch moments of epiphany that has stayed with me. 😞 

I find Don a really interesting character (and thought Jon Hamm did a great job with the role), but I never could forgive the way he treated Adam or Betty. He has a long list of sins, but those were the 2 I held against him the most. 

1 minute ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Funny thing is that Hamm is a great comedic actor imo. 

He really is. He's excellent in A Young Doctor's Notebook (among others). 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Zella

[Ohiopirate02]

12 minutes ago, Zella said:

I loved Betty too! I always enjoyed the advertising stuff, too, but Don's personal life was most interesting to me when he was married to Betty, precisely because of Betty. I've often rewatched the first season or two of the show but rarely get around to watching the rest of it, and I think a big part of it is how interesting (but incredibly sad) I find their relationship dynamics.

  Hide contents

That reveal at the end of season 1 that she knew all along that he was unfaithful to her is one of those gut-punch moments of epiphany that has stayed with me. 😞 

I find Don a really interesting character (and thought Jon Hamm did a great job with the role), but I never could forgive the way he treated Adam or Betty. He has a long list of sins, but those were the 2 I held against him the most. 

He really is. He's excellent in A Young Doctor's Notebook (among others). 

Yeah, Betty knew what Don was doing those nights he didn't come home, but he was doing the same thing as all of her friends' husbands.  That moment in season one is one of my favorite Petty Betty moments.  My absolute favorite Betty moment is her shooting those annoying birds, cigarette dangling from her lip while "You are my special angel" plays in the background.

Don's dismissal of Adam is his biggest sin in my book.  I do love that the show never lets the audience forget it either.  It rightly haunts him every season.  

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

My absolute favorite Betty moment is her shooting those annoying birds, cigarette dangling from her lip while "You are my special angel" plays in the background.

Yes! Birdie, indeed! 

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Yeah, Betty knew what Don was doing those nights he didn't come home, but he was doing the same thing as all of her friends' husbands.  That moment in season one is one of my favorite Petty Betty moments.  My absolute favorite Betty moment is her shooting those annoying birds, cigarette dangling from her lip while "You are my special angel" plays in the background.

I just rewatched that and it's fantastic. Count me in on loving Betty. Her relationship with Sally is pretty fascinating too.

She has so many great moments, but I love one that she was given very near the end...

Spoiler

Where Don tries to swoop in upon learning what's happening back home like he'll make everything better like the hero he looks like and Betty says, "I just want things to be normal and you not being here is part of normal."

It's like she's been sharpening that knife for 7 seasons and just slides it in and she's not even being spiteful just truthful.

 

[GreekGeek]

Adding to the Betty love here. She reminded me of my own mother in many ways, except that my mother was a brunette and not a blonde (and though Betty briefly experimented with becoming a brunette, she'll always be a blonde to me). Sure, her mothering could be very harsh, especially with her daughter, but she was treating her kids the way she'd been treated. There's also the fact that 

Spoiler

she was the only one of the core cast not to receive a happy ending.

 

[callie lee 29]

I never watched Mad Maen but just based on media and commercials I saw, I was Team Betty. Don Draper just seemed like a big ok’ bag of douche.

i saw The Wire a couple of time and couldn’t get into it. I always thought Homicide: Life on the Streets was both a better show with better written characters (at least in  the first few seasons).

[bmoore4026]

I'm also a Betty lover.  I thought January Jones did a good job with the character and loved her scenes with Kiernan Shipka.  You could tell they had chemistry together.

Also, I didn't mind Pete too much.

[catlover79]

11 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

I never watched Mad Men because the very sight of Jon Hamm makes my skin crawl. I don't know him. Never met him. But something about him screams, "RUN AWAY BEFORE HE LOCKS YOU IN A BASEMENT AND SKINS YOU ALIVE." I have the same reaction to Derek Jeter. It's visceral. 

That's the same reaction my mom has to Ben Stiller. 

[sistermagpie]

18 minutes ago, bmoore4026 said:

Also, I didn't mind Pete too much.

Pete was my favorite character.

[DearEvette]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

Pete was my favorite character.

Same.  I didn't care for him in season 1 but as the series went on, he and Kenny were about the only two of the admen I liked.

Very much team Betty.  I loved that when questioned about her seeming coolness she replied "My people are Nordic."  I legit use that line.  And I'm black.

Disliked Joan. A lot.

Edited May 13, 2020 by DearEvette

[Hiyo]

Betty was ok. Didn't like her as much as I did Peggy or Joan.

My unpopular opinion is that I didn't hate Megan...

[Blergh]

On 5/12/2020 at 10:18 PM, catlover79 said:

That's the same reaction my mom has to Ben Stiller. 

Which is a good segue to an UO of mine.  Despite my love I had for decades for the personalities and talents of his late parents ,( Jerry Stiller and Anne Meara), I never have found him entertaining or funny. Just photogenic in his 20's and 30's but the second the younger Mr. Stiller opened his mouth, the charm evaporated. Not a bad person or anything but just a bit 'meh', IMO.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Blergh

[Hiyo]

Quote

I never have found him entertaining or funny.

I have the same reaction to Jerry Stiller (though I loved Anne Meara).

[FurryFury]

15 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

I never watched Mad Men because the very sight of Jon Hamm makes my skin crawl. I don't know him. Never met him. But something about him screams, "RUN AWAY BEFORE HE LOCKS YOU IN A BASEMENT AND SKINS YOU ALIVE." I have the same reaction to Derek Jeter. It's visceral. 

I guess the creators of Kimmy Schmidt had the same feeling, then.

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, Hiyo said:

I have the same reaction to Jerry Stiller (though I loved Anne Meara).

I liked him in Seinfield better then King of Queens. Sure he was an jerk and a terrible father in both. But he wasn't on as much in Seinfield as he was in the other show and could be funny. Arthur startled out okay but a jerk but after a few years was just an asshole. I got tired of him fast. 

[festivus]

I loved Betty and Pete, they were my favorites. Betty was the most interesting character and Pete was the best acted.

Peggy was who I couldn't stand. That character bored me for seven years. I did love this though:

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, festivus said:

I loved Betty and Pete, they were my favorites. Betty was the most interesting character and Pete was the best acted.

Peggy was who I couldn't stand. That character bored me for seven years. I did love this though:

That moment is iconic, and I am enjoying rewatching Peggy's scenes knowing this will eventually happen.  It makes it easier to watch her hopping into bed with Duck.  I do like Peggy because I see a lot of myself in her.  In the season 3 episode where she smokes pot for the first time, her uttering "I'm Peggy Olson, and I want to smoke some marijuana" hit me right in the gut. 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 5/12/2020 at 1:52 AM, bmoore4026 said:

I...don't like The Sopranos.  Just the overall bleakness and edgyness gets to me and really affects my mental health in ways I just don't like.  In fact, lots of HBO dramas give me that feeling.

It took me a few years to get into the Sopranos since when it first came out I thought there was no way it could be as good as the hype it was getting. But when I did watch it I really liked it. As far as the bleakness on of my favourite parts of the show was the comedy, to the point where I can't believe none of the writers have tried to create a sitcom.

[Wiendish Fitch]

11 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

It took me a few years to get into the Sopranos since when it first came out I thought there was no way it could be as good as the hype it was getting. But when I did watch it I really liked it. As far as the bleakness on of my favourite parts of the show was the comedy, to the point where I can't believe none of the writers have tried to create a sitcom.

I have only watched the first episode of The Sopranos, and that was enough for me. I have cooties when it comes to stories about the Mafia or any people involved in organized crime. I find that even media that "doesn't glamorize the mob"... still glamorizes the mob. Sorry to be a hand-wringing scold, but I think these people are scum, living opulent lives from blood money. It's gross. I quite frankly hate them, real or fictional.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Wiendish Fitch

[Zella]

I loathed Pete at first. Then I became fond of him and I appreciated the fact he was always more complex than most little shit characters.

He's also the Mad Men character I quote the most.

"Hell's bells, Trudy!" 

"It's a chip and dip! We got two."

"It's an epic poem to get home."

[Ohiopirate02]

38 minutes ago, Zella said:

I loathed Pete at first. Then I became fond of him and I appreciated the fact he was always more complex than most little shit characters.

He's also the Mad Men character I quote the most.

"Hell's bells, Trudy!" 

"It's a chip and dip! We got two."

"It's an epic poem to get home."

And then there is my all-time personal favorite Pete--

and

[LilWharveyGal]

"The clients want to live too, Ted!"

Sign me up as Team Betty.

[Pickles Aplenty]

9 hours ago, Hiyo said:

My unpopular opinion is that I didn't hate Megan...

Neither did I. 

Another Mad Men UO is that I never found anything Ken did to be interesting.  Ever.

[sistermagpie]

8 minutes ago, Billina said:

Neither did I. 

Another Mad Men UO is that I never found anything Ken did to be interesting.  Ever.

Megan's an interesting character for me because while I wasn't often interested watching her, I love thinking about her as a character.

Also, yeah, I liked Ken, but it seemed like people sometimes projected stuff onto him that wasn't there or was exactly the opposite of what was there.

[Ohiopirate02]

9 minutes ago, Billina said:

Neither did I. 

Another Mad Men UO is that I never found anything Ken did to be interesting.  Ever.

I don't think Ken was ever supposed to be interesting.  He existed as the foil to Pete and Harry once he finally settled down and got married.  He was also the only character who had a fulfilling life outside of the office.  

[Zella]

I liked Ken well enough, but I feel like a lot of people who championed him forgot about what a pig he was in the first season. 

[Kel Varnsen]

4 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Sorry to be a hand-wringing scold, but I think these people are scum, living opulent lives from blood money. It's gross. I quite frankly hate them, real or fictional.

I get that and do kind of agree with it. And I did hate how many people saw Tony Soprano as someone to be impressed by or looked up to, or how people wanted to be a badass like him. It seems they totally missed the point of the show where Tony actually had a pretty shitty life and was a pretty awful human being.

[Ohiopirate02]

21 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I get that and do kind of agree with it. And I did hate how many people saw Tony Soprano as someone to be impressed by or looked up to, or how people wanted to be a badass like him. It seems they totally missed the point of the show where Tony actually had a pretty shitty life and was a pretty awful human being.

I think that is because there are people out there who believe protagonist=hero.  Tony Soprano, Walter White, Don Draper, etc were never meant to be heroes.  The viewer was never meant to find them likeable or want to emulate them.  We are supposed to watch them and be horrified by their actions but still be unable to look away.  The viewer is a voyeur looking into the life of a person most of us never meet in real life.  Also, these are complex characters and the viewer is supposed to have moments where we empathize with these bad men (and women, but the misogyny in these shows and viewer interpretations is a whole different argument).  We are supposed to be shocked when we find a part of ourselves in Tony, Walter, etc.  

I do get why some people stay away from these shows.  They are bleak af and television should be entertaining.  

[DoctorAtomic]

To be fair, people can be entertained by those kind of shows too. 

[Ohiopirate02]

37 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

To be fair, people can be entertained by those kind of shows too. 

I agree.  I don't mind morally gray protangonists, and I do not need my protagonist to be "likeable."  I honestly hate that word.  But I do understand that everyone has their hard limits on what they want in their entertainment--tv shows, books, movies, music etc.  

For myself, after I get off work today I will fix myself a cocktail and watch a couple episodes of Mad Men before watching the latest episode of the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, and finish off watching What We Do in the Shadows.  

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I have only watched the first episode of The Sopranos, and that was enough for me. I have cooties when it comes to stories about the Mafia or any people involved in organized crime. I find that even media that "doesn't glamorize the mob"... still glamorizes the mob. Sorry to be a hand-wringing scold, but I think these people are scum, living opulent lives from blood money. It's gross. I quite frankly hate them, real or fictional.

For me, I just generally find mob stories boring more than anything else (which sounds odd, given the types of lives they led). Even stories about real life mobsters don't really grab me much-I think the only exception I can think of at this time was the recent McMillions documentary, but that was partly because there was so much else going on alongside the mob stuff. Otherwise, it's just not really a genre that holds my interest much. 

Haven't seen "The Sopranos", though, so can't comment on that one. I do remember my dad used to watch the show back in the day. 

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I agree.  I don't mind morally gray protangonists, and I do not need my protagonist to be "likeable."  I honestly hate that word.  But I do understand that everyone has their hard limits on what they want in their entertainment--tv shows, books, movies, music etc.  

For myself, after I get off work today I will fix myself a cocktail and watch a couple episodes of Mad Men before watching the latest episode of the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, and finish off watching What We Do in the Shadows.  

Well, what kind of cocktail is it?

I liked the Sopranos, but I do think it gets somewhat of a bump in that it wasn't actually as great as people remember because it was *the* show that paved the way for our current viewing landscape. (I've said this before). There wasn't shit on Sunday nights on any channel back then of note. And tiny cable outfits putting out genre or high quality drama was unheard of. 

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I do not need my protagonist to be "likeable." 

I need my protagonist to be "likeable" in the sense that I like to watch them, but don't necessarily need them to be "good people". I love Regina from Once Upon a Time, which is a highly UO. I like her, not that I want her to be a real person because she's a horrible person, but I like the character. I find her incredibly fun to watch. Do I think she should be in jail? Yeah, she's a homicidal maniac. But I like watching her. 

I liked Tony Soprano in the sense that I found him complex. I didn't, however, like the show much because I can't stand that much realistic violence. I can watch an entire planet full of people get blown to bits, but show me a guy laying on the ground getting kicked and nope, can't do it. 

Which leads to another possibly UO. I love Marvel movies but I am bored out of my mind when they get to all the expensive fight scenes. Boring! Get back to the chatter and camaraderie please. 

[ABay]

10 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

I need my protagonist to be "likeable" in the sense that I like to watch them, but don't necessarily need them to be "good people".

Ditto. I love Ben Linus. Do I want to invite him 'round for dinner? No, because he's lying, manipulative murderer. But he was fun to watch and the only reason I stuck with Lost to the bitter end.

[Mabinogia]

21 minutes ago, ABay said:

Ditto. I love Ben Linus.

Ah, Ben Linus. What a great character played to perfection. But no, I wouldn't want to spend any time with him if he were a real person. What I look for in a real life person is very different than what makes a fictional character likable to me. I probably wouldn't watch a show about my friends. It is a blast hanging with them, but lord would we be dull to watch. haha

Ben really was one of the best things about Lost. 

[Hiyo]

Oh, Ben Linus...ugh. Boy did he drag down Lost as a show for me. Not the worst sin that show committed, and while he alone didn't ruin the show for me (it was him plus too many other factors combined together), I could have done with much, much, much, much less of him on the show.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Hiyo

[Blergh]

50 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

Oh, Ben Linus...ugh. Boy did he drag down Lost as a show for me. Not the worst sin that show committed, and while he alone didn't ruin the show for me (it was him plus too many other factors combined together), I could have done with much, much, much, much less of him on the show.

Agree- and I could have done with much,much,much,much, much less of the show in general than I  DID watch  til I finally bailed (and am VERY thankful I didn't heed the pleas of my fellow gluttons for punishment/misery loves company cronies who kept trying to guilt me back to watching this mess to the bitter end). If nothing else, this experience taught me to NEVER, EVER trust that any kind of Abrams production won't wind up being  being a totally pointless, audience-jeering bummer! 

[Ohiopirate02]

On 5/13/2020 at 1:19 AM, Hiyo said:

Betty was ok. Didn't like her as much as I did Peggy or Joan.

My unpopular opinion is that I didn't hate Megan...

I'm rewatching the show now, and will begin season 4 later today.  I am eager to revisit Meghan and see my reaction to her.  Meghan is a character who I like on paper and I understand why she is there, but I remember not liking Jessica Pare's acting.  

[DoctorAtomic]

8 hours ago, Blergh said:

If nothing else, this experience taught me to NEVER, EVER trust that any kind of Abrams production won't wind up being  being a totally pointless, audience-jeering bummer! 

I think that's part of the fundamental problem. With TPTBs having no idea what story they're trying to tell, the actor has to make it all up. It unfairly lands on them because you see the actor every week. The show itself was an absolute mess, but I will give them credit that once they said - we're doing X more shows and that's it - the show did get better. Granted, the plot was dumb af, but there was some internal consistency. I will give them credit for a multicultural cast. And I think you can say that the pilot alone just by itself is the best one in tv. 

But I knew from the jump that nothing was going to hold up just from watching the X Files already, so I didn't have much investment in the show beyond enjoying the locale. 

I like Mad Men even if the characters are awful people. That never bothers me. I liked when Don had his 'honest' moments - showing the daughter where he grew up, etc. 

[callie lee 29]

On 5/13/2020 at 1:36 AM, Hiyo said:

I have the same reaction to Jerry Stiller (though I loved Anne Meara).

Same. 

[sistermagpie]

4 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I'm rewatching the show now, and will begin season 4 later today.  I am eager to revisit Meghan and see my reaction to her.  Meghan is a character who I like on paper and I understand why she is there, but I remember not liking Jessica Pare's acting.  

This is exactly how I felt about Megan. But re-watching it makes it better because I know where it's going and so knowing exactly why she's there and what she's doing makes it better.

[ABay]

I will check out new JJ Abrams shows because he was a producer on Person of Interest, and Carlton Cuse's because of Brisco County, but I will never forgive Lindeloff for the idiocy that beset Lost.

[selkie]

They should have cancelled The Sopranos after Nancy Marchant died. IMO, what made the early episodes work was the whole screwed up Tony-Livia dynamic and about how Tony could be on top of the world in so many ways and then just crumble when she confronted him. 

And when Livia was gone, there was no one left who could really successfully offset Tony's attempts to claim more power in his life and it turned into another generic mob show.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 5/14/2020 at 2:37 PM, ABay said:

I will check out new JJ Abrams shows because he was a producer on Person of Interest, and Carlton Cuse's because of Brisco County, but I will never forgive Lindeloff for the idiocy that beset Lost.

My unpopular opinion about Lost is that it seems like the showrunners of Lost received a massively disproportionate amount of shit in comparison to the issues with the show. JJ because he was only involved (for the most part) in the first season, which was a pretty great season of TV.

Lindeloff and Cuse because in part the big issue was the network seeing dollar signs and trying to stretch the series as long as possible. And in part because the older I get the more I think it was a total baller move for the finale to say the mysteries of the island are pointless bullshit as this is a show about characters and their relationships.

I mean it's not like it was the How I Met Your Mother finale.