Party of One: Unpopular TV Opinions

[festivus]

As much as I loved Firefly, I don't think I want it back. I mean they killed off two good charcters and left two crappy ones. There's my UO. I don't like Kaylee.

[Sweet Tee]

I'll agree with you there. I hate Kaylee.

[applecrisp]

My UO is Sleepy Hollow, having just watched the John Adams biopic SH really does a discredit to our founding fathers.  Mostly, Franklin who could be a pain in the butt, yet was rational and would have had nothing to do with all the supernatural crap.  My opinion of course.  It is going deeper and darker and has no where to go.

 

 And why the Jefferson love when the man was an unapologetic slave owner, when so many African-Americans are on the show.

[ganesh]

The X Files wasn't too hard to revive because you only really needed two people. Firefly still has a large cast. I think they'd be better off with a movie every now and then. Even if it was 90 minutes on netflix. 

 

I liked the Arrested Development revival, but the actors weren't all available at the same time, which is ok, but when your main set is a spaceship, you can't really pull that off. 

[Julia]

As much as I loved Firefly, I don't think I want it back. I mean they killed off two good charcters and left two crappy ones. There's my UO. I don't like Kaylee.

 

I'll go one step further and say that I don't get the appeal of Jewel Staite.

[UYI]

I'll just go with the UO that Jewel Staite will always be Becca Fisher from Flash Forward to me. That show was great, probably one of the best teen shows ever. 

[festivus]

I've never seen her in anything else (except the X-Files ep when she was a young girl) so I don't know about the actress but Kaylee got on my last nerve. My other UO is that I quite liked River.

[Chaos Theory]

There is also a weird trend of complaining of cancellation of shows that have gotten a more then fair chance. Person of Interest has always been a "bubble" show and yet CBS kept it around for 5 seasons. That is s fair amount of time to get an audience. Same with Hannibal. Three seasons is a fair chance. You can debate both networks not doing a lot of commercials on the shows. I don't remember seeing any commercial on Hannibal but with such low ratings spending money on a commercial may seem silly and yet if you don't new people are less likely to watch. It's a double edge sword.

[SmithW6079]

My UO is Sleepy Hollow, having just watched the John Adams biopic SH really does a discredit to our founding fathers.  Mostly, Franklin who could be a pain in the butt, yet was rational and would have had nothing to do with all the supernatural crap.  My opinion of course.  It is going deeper and darker and has no where to go.

 

 And why the Jefferson love when the man was an unapologetic slave owner, when so many African-Americans are on the show.

I'm shocked that a show in which a man from the 18th century magically awakens in the 21st century and fights demons and what-not would not be a discredit to the founding fathers.

 

Most of the founding fathers from the south were slave owners. And Lincoln, who "freed" the slaves, did not believe that black people were the equal of whites. He supported voluntary colonization of blacks to South America for quite some time.

[ganesh]

I don't think SH intended to adhere to the historical record from the get go. They paid some lip service when Abby went back in time in terms of the people jailing her for being back, but that's it. Also, that set up one of the greatest sight gags in television history.

[proserpina65]

And why the Jefferson love when the man was an unapologetic slave owner, when so many African-Americans are on the show.

 

This issue has been addressed on the show, although perhaps not to the extent that it should've been.

[supposebly]

There is also a weird trend of complaining of cancellation of shows that have gotten a more then fair chance. Person of Interest has always been a "bubble" show and yet CBS kept it around for 5 seasons. That is s fair amount of time to get an audience. Same with Hannibal. Three seasons is a fair chance. You can debate both networks not doing a lot of commercials on the shows. I don't remember seeing any commercial on Hannibal but with such low ratings spending money on a commercial may seem silly and yet if you don't new people are less likely to watch. It's a double edge sword.

5 seasons is a success in my book. And most shows shouldn't go longer anyway. I'm ok with Hannibal being cancelled. It's an awesome show but I don't need a show to go on forever to like it. Quality never increases the longer a show lasts.

 

Sleepy Hollow is a crap show (was? is it still on?) and I think it was never really that wonder people made it out to be. I jumped off that boat long before season 1 ended. It was ridiculous and the Man out of time jokes became stale very quickly.

[Chaos Theory]

Sleepy Hollow is a crap show (was? is it still on?) and I think it was never really that wonder people made it out to be. I jumped off that boat long before season 1 ended. It was ridiculous and the Man out of time jokes became stale very quickly.

I gave up on Sleepy Hollow somewhere in the second season. The first season did have two major things going for it. A strong woman of color and a female/male pairing that had zero romantic chemistry. Unless that changed the central pairing wasn't secretly in wuv. Plus it was a fun show.

[ganesh]

S3 of SH has been tweaked to capture more of that S1 vibe. It's quite good. 

[Julia]

Person of Interest was one of the top rated shows on broadcast until they swapped out Carter for Root. At which point, yes, it became a bubble show.

[roseha]

I don't know if this is unpopular or not, but I don't like sitcom "finales".  I only think finales work in dramas where loose ends have to be tied up.  I think the first show to have a real finale was The Fugitive, which demanded one due to its story line.  But comedies in that era didn't have finales, and I don't think they need them now.  I'd rather just have them end with a typical funny episode, like The Dick Van Dyke Show or Get Smart did.  I think that in most cases anyway we don't expect to see a main character die in a sitcom, so it really should be okay to imagine life going on in their universe.

[Raja]

S3 of SH has been tweaked to capture more of that S1 vibe. It's quite good. 

The season two finale of Sleepy Hollow could have been titled we're sorry here is the reboot.

[ParadoxLost]

The season two finale of Sleepy Hollow could have been titled we're sorry here is the reboot.

 

Since this is the thread it is.  I've said it before and it say it again.  S1 was never as good as people said it is.  S2 was never as bad as people say it was.  And S3 isn't some miraculous return to quality television.

Edited February 13, 2016 by ParadoxLost

[ganesh]

Nothing ever is.There were some legit gripes with S2 though. It is a good example of TPTBs wanting to have a particular show, but that's not really the show they had. So they fixed it. I think it's actually a better idea to move away from western-style religion end of the world. There's older stories to tell. 

[ChromaKelly]

My UO is Sleepy Hollow, having just watched the John Adams biopic SH really does a discredit to our founding fathers.  Mostly, Franklin who could be a pain in the butt, yet was rational and would have had nothing to do with all the supernatural crap.  My opinion of course.  It is going deeper and darker and has no where to go.

 

 And why the Jefferson love when the man was an unapologetic slave owner, when so many African-Americans are on the show.

And Jefferson largely sat out the Revolution. He fled from his mansion. "Don't lecture me about the war, you didn't fight in it!"

I would think Crane would find Jefferson's unapologetic slave-owning to be problematic, at the very least. ETA - It was mentioned upthread it was addressed but I can't remember the specifics. I need to go back and rewatch this show now that I'm all into Hamilton. Where has Ham been in the show? He was Washington's Right Hand Man.

Edited February 13, 2016 by ChromaKelly

[applecrisp]

And Jefferson largely sat out the Revolution. He fled from his mansion. "Don't lecture me about the war, you didn't fight in it!"

I would think Crane would find Jefferson's unapologetic slave-owning to be problematic, at the very least. ETA - It was mentioned upthread it was addressed but I can't remember the specifics. I need to go back and rewatch this show now that I'm all into Hamilton. Where has Ham been in the show? He was Washington's Right Hand Man.

 

I think he has mostly been left out of this show.  I can understand Adams,who was vehemently opposed to slavery, was in Europe for most of the war.  I think that is why  I am not enjoying the John Adams biopic because he was not really where all the action is. 

 

Why insist though that Jefferson was this great guy.  He resembles more of a modern day politician than most and was a phony.

[Wiendish Fitch]

I'll agree with you there. I hate Kaylee.

 

The older I get, the more I hate Kaylee. I know it's horrible, but she now brings to mind the "Cool Girl" rant from Gone Girl. 

 

Yet my dislike of Kaylee has nothing, and I mean nothing, on my loathing and disgust of the much-loved Mal. I didn't find Mal a sexy badass, I thought he was a bullying, unrepentant misogynist (in addition to being boorish, monosyllabic, and not even that good looking). I found his treatment of Inara and Simon (whom I didn't even like all that much) utterly repugnant. Mal isn't "the Man", he barely counts as a man. A real man knows how to treat a lady. It confirms my suspicion that Joss Whedon is no feminist that he wrote this loathsome, sexist asshole and implicitly expected us to root for him. 

 

One of my favorite TV boyfriends, Marcus Cole from Babylon 5, would have mopped the floor with Mal. 

[Julia]

Why insist though that Jefferson was this great guy.  He resembles more of a modern day politician than most and was a phony.

 

Time that is intolerant

Of the brave and the innocent,

And indifferent in a week

To a beautiful physique,

Worships language and forgives

Everyone by whom it lives;

Pardons cowardice, conceit,

Lays its honours at their feet.

Time that with this strange excuse

Pardoned Kipling and his views,

And will pardon Paul Claudel,

Pardons him for writing well.

 

Jefferson wrote a document that was better than he was.  

 

ETA: Wiendish Fitch, I heart you. 

Edited February 13, 2016 by Julia

[ABay]

Hamilton was, by far, the hottest of the Founders. Adams and Franklin are my favs. Jefferson...meh. I want to like him because he was brilliant, invented cool things, and had some good lines in 1776, but Ken Howard aside, I find it hard to warm up to him. Having said that, if you watched Sleepy Hollow before deciding what it does or does not do, you would've seen that it has taken Jefferson down more than once. 

 

I will now move to Pet Peeves to vent some more.

[amensisterfriend]

I really disliked Kaylee too! And I wanted to love her, in part because I'm so over angry and angsty characters that I was eager to embrace someone who's so determinedly cheerful and optimistic. But something about her is just so unbelievably annoying, and she's just not interesting or entertaining to me at all. And I have issues with Firefly''s dialogue in general---that god awful blend of proper English, Old West slang and random Chinese phrases---but it seems Kaylee got some of the very most cringe-inducing lines. Also, I thought her would-be romance with Simon was a total disaster. If it's possible to have less than zero romantic chemistry and compatibility, they managed that feat :) 

[ribboninthesky1]

The older I get, the more I hate Kaylee. I know it's horrible, but she now brings to mind the "Cool Girl" rant from Gone Girl. 

 

Yet my dislike of Kaylee has nothing, and I mean nothing, on my loathing and disgust of the much-loved Mal. I didn't find Mal a sexy badass, I thought he was a bullying, unrepentant misogynist (in addition to being boorish, monosyllabic, and not even that good looking). I found his treatment of Inara and Simon (whom I didn't even like all that much) utterly repugnant. Mal isn't "the Man", he barely counts as a man. A real man knows how to treat a lady. It confirms my suspicion that Joss Whedon is no feminist that he wrote this loathsome, sexist asshole and implicitly expected us to root for him. 

 

I have never understood the "Whedon is a feminist" perspective.  But I'm no Buffy fan, either.  

 

ETA: The only Firefly character I really liked was Zoe.  Everyone else fell onto a spectrum of "Ugh, please shut up" (Mal, Kaylee) to meh (Wash, Inara, Shepherd, River) to intermittently tolerable or likable (Jayne, Simon).  Zoe should have been the captain, as far as I'm concerned. Also, ditto to whoever it was that preferred the film.  It's the only reason I watched the TV episodes, and wasn't impressed.     

Edited February 14, 2016 by ribboninthesky1

[SmithW6079]

I don't know if this is unpopular or not, but I don't like sitcom "finales". I only think finales work in dramas where loose ends have to be tied up. I think the first show to have a real finale was The Fugitive, which demanded one due to its story line. But comedies in that era didn't have finales, and I don't think they need them now. I'd rather just have them end with a typical funny episode, like The Dick Van Dyke Show or Get Smart did. I think that in most cases anyway we don't expect to see a main character die in a sitcom, so it really should be okay to imagine life going on in their universe.

I do like my shows to have some kind of wrap-up, even sitcoms. "Friends," for example, did a nice job, because while we got resolution on a bunch of story lines, there was also the sense that life would go on once the cameras were gone.

[Joe]

I have never understood the "Whedon is a feminist" perspective.      

He calls himself one. I'm sure he believes his words too, but keep in mind that he's just as fallible as the rest of us. Everyone can screw up.

[Julia]

I guess it's hard for me to recognize the gospel of empowerment through prostitution, mind control, the monstrousness of being childless (for a woman) and ever-shrinking BMI as feminism coming from someone who's free to choose his message.

[applecrisp]

Hamilton was, by far, the hottest of the Founders. Adams and Franklin are my favs. Jefferson...meh. I want to like him because he was brilliant, invented cool things, and had some good lines in 1776, but Ken Howard aside, I find it hard to warm up to him. Having said that, if you watched Sleepy Hollow before deciding what it does or does not do, you would've seen that it has taken Jefferson down more than once. 

 

I will now move to Pet Peeves to vent some more.

I watched the first two seasons and some of the third.  There has been some complaints against Jefferson, just not enough to my liking.  I just really despise Jefferson I guess.

[supposebly]

Were we supposed to like Mal on Firefly? I didn't but I still found him an interesting, albeit often aggravating character. But then, I think among the Whedon shows, I like Firefly best, Angel (later seasons) second best, I can't stand Buffy but I kinda get why people liked it, and don't get me started on Dollhouse. Oddly enough Angel season 5 holds up best of them all.

 

Whedon a feminist? Hilarious. I did not think so 15 years ago and I still don't think so. He just seems to like to cast tiny women in main roles. Sometimes he gets lucky and they can act and carry a show. Sometimes he doesn't. That doesn't make him a feminist in my book.

I think some of his male characters were way more developed and layered and interesting than most of his female characters (Mal, Simon, later seasons Wesley). Most of the female ones seem too perfect and don't have a lot of layers. I love Zoe but she doesn't have much of an edge. She was defined by her relationships and to me, that's a lazy old-fashioned way of writing for female characters. Kaylee is cheerful and open-minded. What else? I couldn't say.

I like River, especially after the movie but I would watch Summer Glau just move, so I'm not quite objective with my girl crush on her. But who is she? I wouldn't know.

Buffy? I just can't stand her. I watched the whole show but I clench my teeth whenever SMG was on screen. So, there was a lot of teeth-clenching involved to get through it. I liked the later seasons better.

 

When it comes to empowered Sci-Fi characters of the 90's, Scully beats them all for me.

[Chaos Theory]

I have never understood the "Whedon is a feminist" perspective. But I'm no Buffy fan, either.

ETA: The only Firefly character I really liked was Zoe. Everyone else fell onto a spectrum of "Ugh, please shut up" (Mal, Kaylee) to meh (Wash, Inara, Shepherd, River) to intermittently tolerable or likable (Jayne, Simon). Zoe should have been the captain, as far as I'm concerned. Also, ditto to whoever it was that preferred the film. It's the only reason I watched the TV episodes, and wasn't impressed.

I have like/loved most of Whedons work so I can at least appriate his approach to female characters. Is it perfect? No. Is it better then a lot of characters on television including those created by women? Yes. Edited February 15, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[ganesh]

When it comes to empowered Sci-Fi characters of the 90's, Scully beats them all for me.

 

Aeryn Sun could give her a run. 

 

It seems like a UO is that I think the updated XF is fine. I was totally unspoiled, and I had no expectations. It's obvious that the actors were coming back because they wanted to, not that they need to, so they were going to want to get into something different with the characters. It's disingenuous to expect a revival of a tv show 10+ years off the air is going to be the exact same thing. 

Edited February 15, 2016 by ganesh

[supposebly]

Aeryn Sun could give her a run. 

 

 

 

Ok, I can agree on that one. They are at least in the same league what when it comes to interesting female Sci-Fi characters during that time. Now I want a conversation between Aeryn Sun and Scully on the merits of which gun to use when. They both were handy with them, something that's often overlooked when it comes to Scully. The woman shot out a fan while almost falling into it in season 1.

Edited February 15, 2016 by supposebly

[ParadoxLost]

Aeryn Sun could give her a run. 

 

It seems like a UO is that I think the updated XF is fine. I was totally unspoiled, and I had no expectations. It's obvious that the actors were coming back because they wanted to, not that they need to, so they were going to want to get into something different with the characters. It's disingenuous to expect a revival of a tv show 10+ years off the air is going to be the exact same thing. 

 

I'm generally pretty happy with the revival too.  I think where I'm a little surprised is that we haven't seen stronger entries into the monster of the week category.  I get where/why they are doing the relationship / mytharc stuff they are doing, but with the revival also having the production staff coming back I'm surprised someone didn't have a really, really solid idea for a "monster" in the last ten years. 

[ganesh]

The last one was ok. Home Again. 

I think they were trying to tick off boxes more than anything, and I think they (TPTBs) didn't really understand how people watch tv in 2016. There's not really a story to tell here. 

 

The fans imo have been just ungrateful and pissy. 

[DearEvette]

And Jefferson largely sat out the Revolution. He fled from his mansion. "Don't lecture me about the war, you didn't fight in it!"

I would think Crane would find Jefferson's unapologetic slave-owning to be problematic, at the very least. ETA - It was mentioned upthread it was addressed but I can't remember the specifics. I need to go back and rewatch this show now that I'm all into Hamilton. Where has Ham been in the show? He was Washington's Right Hand Man.

 

S1 Abbie and Frank schooled Ichabod on Sally Hemings and asked Ichabod how he could admire a man who talked about liberty yet owned slaves.  Also they revealed him to be a plagiarist ... he 'self attributed' one of Ichabod's quotes as his own.  Ichabod was crushed.  It was a neat set of scenes interspersed with them laying traps for Headless

Edited February 16, 2016 by DearEvette

[ganesh]

I'm also over the 7 pages of whether Abby's hair would have grown that long enough while she was "away." It's a tv cheat to show that time was moving differently, so we could understand her state of mind. Sometimes, you have to do that on tv. 

[Chaos Theory]

I'm also over the 7 pages of whether Abby's hair would have grown that long enough while she was "away." It's a tv cheat to show that time was moving differently, so we could understand her state of mind. Sometimes, you have to do that on tv.

I'll go even further. Not all tv cheats are bad or lazy writing. Sometimes they are there simply because the alternative is a long drawn out info dump or an episode devoted to unnecessary details that can be solved with four words "Because I said so."

[Cherpumple]

Hamilton was, by far, the hottest of the Founders.

 

Amen to that! And I always picture him with a thick Caribbean accent (think Barbados Slim from Futurama) because he was raised in the West Indies. That just makes him hotter. And btw, if you're ever in Harlem, you can visit his house. That's right, his quaint colonial wooden farmhouse is in Harlem. It's worth a look!

 

I don't mind the way the founding fathers are portrayed in SH (although Betsy Ross is another story!), because it's obviously tongue in cheek and over the top. And it's all based on Ichabod's own prejudices and personal friendships, so I assumed that we are supposed to take their portrayals with a grain of salt, as Ichabod certainly isn't infallible or unbiased. To me, the fact that Ben Franklin is made out to be a pompous villain is more of a running joke about Ichabod being a bit of priss, rather than an indication of how I am supposed to view him.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I wanted to punch her in the face every time she'd go off on one of her diatribes with that 5 pack of cigarettes a day raspy drawl.

 

Eh, I would rather listen to Abbie rasp all the live-long day than Claire and/or Serena wishy-wash about whatever. I don't really hate anyone from Law & Order, and I've come to appreciate Ben Stone much more in the present than I did in the past, but given my choice of the female A.D.A.s, Abbie is always at the top of my list.

 

lalalallala I can't hear you llalalalalala.  Firefly would have been the bestest show ever, and would have gone on and on and on with nary a drop in quality until the end of time.    If only it hadn't been cancelled after being screwed over by Fox.

 

Don't you mean FUX? ;-)

 

And since we've cycled back to the topic of Joss Whedon, I have a new UO - Buffy Summers was a terrible friend way more often than she was a good one.

 

I know the popular thing still seems to be saying that Xander was awful and horrible and awful because he asked Buffy for a date once and then dared to be hurt and upset when she said no, but let's review. Buffy consciously and deliberately betrays her friends after spending three months hiding out in Los Angeles because they "can't understand her pain." Never mind that they might have understood it if she had, y'know, not caught that late-night bus, leaving her physically injured and emotionally hurt 'friends' behind. She comes back after a ;period of total radio silence, and the second she realizes Tall, Dark, and Dense is back, she actively makes the decision to harbor him, knowing that she's not only risking her friendships again but also taking the chance that the loophole in the curse has changed. Fair enough to say that neither she nor Angel had any idea that his soul could be lost the first time, but afterwards? No excuse except that she was a selfish, uncaring brat who didn't care who she hurt as long as she wasn't the one in pain.

[ByTor]

Eh, I would rather listen to Abbie rasp all the live-long day than Claire and/or Serena wishy-wash about whatever.

Is it because she's a lesbian? :P On to UO #2, Serena was my favorite ADA :)

Some people have expressed not liking Seinfeld as their UO. I like Seinfeld, but my UO is that I don't laugh even once during the Soup Nazi episode, I didn't think anything about it was remotely funny.

[andromeda331]

and I've come to appreciate Ben Stone much more in the present than I did in the past

So have I. They've been playing the earlier episodes on We TV, and I'm surprised by how

much more I like him.

[Rick Kitchen]

Too bad Michael Moriarty turned into an unmitigated asshole in real life.

[ganesh]

I'll go even further. Not all tv cheats are bad or lazy writing. Sometimes they are there simply because the alternative is a long drawn out info dump or an episode devoted to unnecessary details that can be solved with four words "Because I said so."

 

You have to give a *little* as a viewer. Ok, her hair is long. Come on. You get the point. Farscape did a great job with the translator microbes: We know the aliens all talk different. You can't really have a show like that. Then, you can use that for fun.

The problem is TPTBs tend to sway way into too much cheating and "let the viewers figure it out."

[ribboninthesky1]

Am I supposed to find Damien Lewis attractive? I've watched a couple of episodes of his new show, and showrunners insist on close ups.  Just...no. Please, stop.  

 

Granted, he's not as bad as Ray Liotta, who looks like he's melting on my TV screen.  But god almighty, pull the fucking camera back.  I don't need a man to be handsome, but in this world of high definition, some of these shows REALLY need to lay off close ups.  Particularly for some men. Women can't get away with anything resembling flaws, for the most part, so when they're standing next to these dudes, the contrast is glaring. 

[merylinkid]

 

We know the aliens all talk different. You can't really have a show like that.

 

This gets into my pet peeve/UO.   If you have a show taking place in a non-English speaking country, do not have the actors speaking with an accent.   It just emphasizes the fact they are speaking English in a situation they would not be.   Either have them speak in a foreign language (not really doable) or just go straight with the English.   I can fanwank they are then speaking their own language, I am just hearing English.   But if they use an accent, takes me right on out of the show.   

[proserpina65]

Too bad Michael Moriarty turned into an unmitigated asshole in real life.

I wouldn't say 'asshole' so much as 'nutjob'.  But as you say, too bad, because I loved Ben Stone.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I wouldn't say 'asshole' so much as 'nutjob'.  But as you say, too bad, because I loved Ben Stone.

 

Agree. I remain bitter, yes, even to this day, that Moriarty went Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs, because I fucking LOVED Ben Stone!

[Chaos Theory]

Am I supposed to find Damien Lewis attractive? I've watched a couple of episodes of his new show, and showrunners insist on close ups. Just...no. Please, stop.

I thought he was gorgeous in "Life". Don't remember if I found him attractive in "Homeland". I think I like his smile.