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S04.E15: Up To Heaven And Down To Hell

ElectricBoogaloo

By ElectricBoogaloo
in Elementary [V]

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memememe76

memememe76

This episode was all about AQ and Virginia Madsen with a side of Lucy. I got teary at the end. I barely cared about the mystery. As soon as I recognized the cop from Third Watch, I figured he did it. 

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basil

basil

(edited)
Was the mogul guy who was building his "legacy" supposed to be Trump or Trump like? There was a line near the end about him "running for office."

 

 

 

No doubt in my mind we were invited to make that comparison. The ersatz Trump in the Elementary universe wants people to look at the city and think of him. Our real-life Trump puts his name on everything so we'll have to think of him. Truth is stranger than fiction.

 

I thought it was very interesting that Watson unconsciously diagnosed Madsen. She knew something was wrong, but she "just couldn't put her finger on it". Was it the doctor or the detective in her? Would Sherlock have felt the same feelings?

Edited by basil
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Athena

Athena

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I love how platonic this show is. I adore how it emphasizes the friendships and working relationships the core four have with each other. It felt so intimate when Joan and Gregson talked about Paige. I buy that friendship and adore how the show has this total lack of romantic or sexual chemistry. I am a romantic, but I enjoy how this show seems to celebrate friendships.

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MaryHedwig

MaryHedwig

(edited)
Did Virginia and Aidan appear in anything else together, because they sort of look familiar as a couple, or at least screen partners.

Well...Virginia seems to have a thing for police captains.  The series Monk ended with a very promising romantic hookup between Virginia and San Francisco's Captain Leland Stottlemeyer (Ted Levine.)

Edited by MaryHedwig
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Blakeston

Blakeston

No doubt in my mind we were invited to make that comparison. The ersatz Trump in the Elementary universe wants people to look at the city and think of him. Our real-life Trump puts his name on everything so we'll have to think of him. Truth is stranger than fiction.

And I suspect we're going to be seeing the character again, as a politician.
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basil

basil

I suspect we're going to be seeing the character again, as a politician.

 

 

It seems he may have been on the show already? He did say that he had hired them in the past. IMDB isn't updated on this episode yet so I couldn't check the actor's name.

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Athena

Athena

It seems he may have been on the show already? He did say that he had hired them in the past. IMDB isn't updated on this episode yet so I couldn't check the actor's name.

 

The character William Hull played by Skipp Sudduth was in episode S03x06 "Terri Pericolosa".

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thuganomics85

thuganomics85

I vaguely remember the William Hull character from a previous episode, so it was kind of fun seeing him again, even if it basically sounds like he's playing this show's version of Donald Trump (the mogul and political part.  I certainly hope not the racist and hateful parts).  Either way, I figured it was going to be the actual creator.  There was just something about him that felt shady.

 

I don't think they really touch on Gregson's personal life since his daughter, and I'm pretty sure we haven't even gone into his romantic life outside his ex played Callie Throne seasons a go, so this was a nice diversion.  I thought Aidan Quinn and Virginia Madsen worked well together.  MS is definitely a disease that is getting used more on television lately.  I have a feeling this show is going to treat it a bit more serious then Empire did, heh.  I did like how Joan was involved in it and seeing her and Gregson play off one another.

 

The cold opening with Sherlock and Joan staking out a piece of pork to see if rats would eat it, was highly amusing.

 

Next week: 

Yes! They're finally going to do their take on the Hounds of Baskerville!

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

(edited)
MS is definitely a disease that is getting used more on television lately.  I have a feeling this show is going to treat it a bit more serious then Empire did, heh.  I did like how Joan was involved in it and seeing her and Gregson play off one another.

Does anyone here know if someone associated with the show has a family member with MS? Or is "CBS Cares" the driving force behind PSA episode elements?

Edited by shapeshifter
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basil

basil

The character William Hull played by Skipp Sudduth was in episode S03x06 "Terri Pericolosa".

 

 

 

Thanks, Athena. I'll have to watch that tonight.

 

MS is definitely a disease that is getting used more on television lately

 

 

 

It was a major story line in The West Wing, as well.

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roomtorome

roomtorome

This was the only time I really felt the emotional punch - when Joan and Gregson had the conversation - it was very natural and AQ is so criminally underused on this show - he has an easy style that is not showy or affected - just very real and authentic.  I keep thinking there must be a reason that overall, we see so little of him.

 

The mystery itself, once again, bored me to death - can barely even remember what all that blather about air rights and the hideous building were about and don't care.

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AnnieBeez

AnnieBeez

I thought that Greyson had been dating her for about a year?? For her to be diagnosed with MS, she would've had to have symptoms--pretty severe symptoms for them to even consider MS. Didn't he notice? That part was off to me. 

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Texasmom1970

Texasmom1970

I loved seeing the captain get more screen time, I love Aiden. And I must have Joan's dress and the long black overcoat she wore. The wardrobe department does an amazing job dressing her in interesting, classy clothes that are not too old or too young looking for her. Pretty spot on.

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Kromm

Kromm

I loved seeing the captain get more screen time, I love Aiden. And I must have Joan's dress and the long black overcoat she wore. The wardrobe department does an amazing job dressing her in interesting, classy clothes that are not too old or too young looking for her. Pretty spot on.

I never know how to take that aspect. I'm pretty certain that Joan Watson isn't supposed to be Lucy Liu's actual age. I think they, very much through how she dresses, acts, and who her friends outside of work are shown to be, imply that Joan is probably late 30s. Lucy is a decade older (even if she doesn't show it).
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basil

basil

I thought that Greyson had been dating her for about a year?? For her to be diagnosed with MS, she would've had to have symptoms--pretty severe symptoms for them to even consider MS. [bolding mine]  Didn't he notice? That part was off to me.

 

 

That isn't necessarily true. MS in its early stages can be hard to detect, but early symptoms are not always severe. I have known people who have had an episode while I was with them and never knew until they told me.

 

Also, he's only dating her, not living with her 24/7. She is no doubt on medication. It is not always as noticeable as you'd think. 

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sinkwriter

sinkwriter

 

I vaguely remember the William Hull character from a previous episode, so it was kind of fun seeing him again, even if it basically sounds like he's playing this show's version of Donald Trump (the mogul and political part.  I certainly hope not the racist and hateful parts).

 

I don't off-hand remember the case of the previous episode he guested in, but I do remember that at the time I thought Skipp had used a few affectations and accent-related choices in his acting that heavily reminded me of Trump. Interestingly, in this episode, he seemed to have backed off those choices and lightened his approach. I wonder if that was because his role was originally supposed to be a one-off, or if he was told to ease up on seeming too much like Trump so that they couldn't get sued. (Not implausible, given how Trump likes to threaten that toward anybody even making the slightest case against him and his behaviors in any way. *eyeroll)

 

I liked the Gregson focus and Joan/Gregson stuff, and I was thoroughly entertained by the opening scene between Watson and Sherlock.

 

And the case seemed very interesting at the start, with the woman being thrown to her death and the dog and the weird possibilities. But when the overall case details turned to zoning rules and all that very dry boring stuff, my brain pretty much glazed over. At one point I actually announced to my TV, "My brain officially hurts." Just keeping up with all the files and the zoning and the rules about airspace and .... zzzzzzzzzzz. I feel like they started out with a potentially interesting episode and let it get bogged down in details that only an architect or a zoning commissioner could love.

Cool to see Malcolm Gets, though! (As the architect in question.) I almost didn't recognize him at first, because it's been so long since I've seen him on TV, but as soon as he opened his mouth, I said, "Malcolm! It's you!" And thoughts of Caroline in the City flooded back to me.  *GRIN*

Also a tribute to how boring the case was: I spent most of my time thinking about that poor guy who got crushed by that old lady. Mainly because he was carrying balloons and a giant giraffe at his time of death, so I kept thinking, "They just killed off someone's dad, on his way to his kid's birthday!" The idea that some poor little kid just lost his or her father, on his or her own birthday. That's horrible.

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mojoween

mojoween

All those Mylar balloons, just floating away. I was really interested in what the other driver was going to get from the trunk. Tire iron? Shotgun?

I didn't realize Gregson and his wife were officially divorced. Weren't they reconciling? Or did that go sour and I don't remember that part.

I want a hug from Aidan Quinn now too. Lucky Lucy.

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basil

basil

Is the show being cancelled ?

 

 

Its ratings have see-sawed, and changing the night it's shown on is not a great sign, but Elementary seems to have a pretty dedicated audience that I think will follow it. I believe (and hope) that it will be renewed for a 5th season.

 

Bland and boring Mystery episode. And, not for the first time--writer apathy, uninspired director, lazy showrunner(?).

 

 

I've never watched Elementary for its cases, but rather more for the performances and amusing dialogue. As to the rest of your complaints - can you elucidate? What is it about the creatives that you find apathetic, uninspired and lazy? I find them anything but. For a network show, they represent the GLBT community and people on the spectrum respectfully and matter-of-factly. I enjoy the way they cleverly include canon into the show, without shoe horning it in. They bring in the bizarre and the obscure.

 

I spent most of my time thinking about that poor guy who got crushed by that old lady. Mainly because he was carrying balloons and a giant giraffe at his time of death, so I kept thinking, "They just killed off someone's dad, on his way to his kid's birthday!" The idea that some poor little kid just lost his or her father, on his or her own birthday. That's horrible.

 

 

Funny, I didn't get a "daddy" vibe at all. At best, maybe an uncle, a boyfriend or even a delivery guy. A giant giraffe and mylar balloons are a pretty cheesy gift...and not that the guy deserved to die for it, but he was a total dick for stealing the parking space. Bad manners, and apparently worse karma. That said:

 

I was really interested in what the other driver was going to get from the trunk. Tire iron? Shotgun?

 

 

I was curious, too. It didn't really make sense that a guy like that (older, likely wealthy) would openly resort to violence over a parking space, but that did seem to be what they were implying.

 

 

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MissLucas

MissLucas

I loved seeing the captain get more screen time, I love Aiden. And I must have Joan's dress and the long black overcoat she wore. The wardrobe department does an amazing job dressing her in interesting, classy clothes that are not too old or too young looking for her. Pretty spot on.

The coat is sold out, sorry. She wore it already once last season

 

Loved this episode - I think that was the first time after Kitty's departure that I got a tad teary. Aidan Quinn and Lucy Liu were fantastic in that last scene.

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Texasmom1970

Texasmom1970

The coat is sold out, sorry. She wore it already once last season

 

Loved this episode - I think that was the first time after Kitty's departure that I got a tad teary. Aidan Quinn and Lucy Liu were fantastic in that last scene.

Dang I love that coat, but I guess a lot of others do as well! I also loved the support Joan told the Captain he would get, so sweet.

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MisterGlass

MisterGlass

 

I didn't realize Gregson and his wife were officially divorced. Weren't they reconciling? Or did that go sour and I don't remember that part.

 

I believe it was mentioned as an aside in an episode, but not specifically shown.  They did try for a while to reconcile.

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AnnieBeez

AnnieBeez

That isn't necessarily true. MS in its early stages can be hard to detect, but early symptoms are not always severe. I have known people who have had an episode while I was with them and never knew until they told me.

 

Also, he's only dating her, not living with her 24/7. She is no doubt on medication. It is not always as noticeable as you'd think. 

 

Okay. Perhaps I should say unusual symptoms. This is a touchy subject with me--as someone who does NOT have MS but who has a neuromuscular disease. I'm going to let it go. I'll just say it did not ring true for me.

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ElectricBoogaloo

ElectricBoogaloo

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It's a good thing that the murderer wore fancy expensive shoes with a distinctive heel. If he had been wearing cheap crappy shoes from Payless, he might have gotten away with it!

 

The coat is sold out, sorry. She wore it already once last season

She and Sherlock must be making good money if she is buying $1000 coats. Then again, are she and Sherlock not paying rent since Morland owns it? Living rent free definitely frees up a lot more disposable income!

 

It was weird to see Sully from Third Watch as the bad guy again. I guess at least this time it was the architect who was really the bad guy (ha, how often do you get to say that?).

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Clanstarling

Clanstarling

I must be pretty boring, because I thought the air space rights was kind of interesting - I've never heard about that and enjoyed learning about it. I didn't hate the case, though of course, the Captain and his girlfriend stole the show. I can't remember the last time I teared up - and I think I was tearing up because Aidan was tearing up.

 

I agree that the actress at the Save the Neighborhood (or whatever it was called) office was misused. I don't recall her name, but I've loved her in everything I've seen her in. I didn't recognize any of the other actors involved in that plotline.

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theatremouse

theatremouse

(edited)

I must be pretty boring, because I thought the air space rights was kind of interesting - I've never heard about that and enjoyed learning about it. I didn't hate the case, though of course, the Captain and his girlfriend stole the show. I can't remember the last time I teared up - and I think I was tearing up because Aidan was tearing up.

I'm always so torn when I watch this type of show and they use something I find interesting (and makes me feel like I learned something) to hinge a plot point on. This show is usually better than most about getting the facts right, they sort of need to given the premise of Sherlock knowing everything. If they got it wrong a lot it'd be infuriating. Still, when I watch what's basically a procedural, especially on CBS, I always hesitate before letting myself think "hey! I learned something new!" It makes me want to research it first before accepting the new interesting info. Probably because I've had so many experiences where I did already know some tidbit they used, and used wrong. It sort of pisses me off that I can't just enjoy that "learning" moment because now I never trust it.

But I digress...

Edited by theatremouse
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sinkwriter

sinkwriter

(edited)

I thought the mention of the airspace rights was interesting, definitely not something I'd heard about before, but I think after a certain point the episode started to feel like a lecture about it, so that we could understand enough to get why the architect did what he did. But it was too much for me. I felt like my brain wasn't keeping up with all the information and how it all fit together. Too much talking.

 

It wasn't until they showed the smaller building and explained it to the Trump-like business guy that everything cleared up and clicked. It just seemed like the case had a lot going on, maybe too much.

Edited by sinkwriter
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tljgator

tljgator

(edited)

Everything I know about air rights I learned from watching the cheesy movie Burlesque one too many times as a guilty pleasure, lol ... it's much more fun when Xtina and Cher sort it out than it was here.  Thank you, sinkwriter -- Malcolm Gets! He seemed so familiar and I couldn't quite sort out who it was.  (Good guy -- comes back here every year to do a one-man show kinda thing to raise money for the community theater.)

Edited by tljgator
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jhlipton

jhlipton

I thought it was very interesting that Watson unconsciously diagnosed Madsen. She knew something was wrong, but she "just couldn't put her finger on it". Was it the doctor or the detective in her? Would Sherlock have felt the same feelings?

 

 

I think a bit of both.  The detective may have picked something up from the way she was acting and the doctor from her actions being off.

 

It's a good thing that the murderer wore fancy expensive shoes with a distinctive heel. If he had been wearing cheap crappy shoes from Payless, he might have gotten away with it!

 

It is a standard trope in mysteries these days that someone along the line of inquiry (if not the bad guy himself) will use a product that is rare enough that the detectives can find out who used it.

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frenchtoast

frenchtoast

I had heard of air rights because my husband's cousin is a lawyer in NYC that handles that stuff. I'm one of those weirdos that like the regulations and rules stuff, going over all those documents. But then, I watched this during the day because I was not staying up to watch on Thursday night, so seeing someone read and discuss was easier to handle.

 

Also, loved that coat she was wearing. Wow, was that gorgeous on her.

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MisterGlass

MisterGlass

 

She and Sherlock must be making good money if she is buying $1000 coats. Then again, are she and Sherlock not paying rent since Morland owns it? Living rent free definitely frees up a lot more disposable income!

 

Yes, free rent helps a lot, and I can't imagine how much in NYC.  I know Sherlock originally paid Joan out of his trust fund allowance, but now that she has her own cases she probably charges a nice fee.  I think Sherlock still works pro bono for the NYPD.

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basil

basil

It is a standard trope in mysteries these days that someone along the line of inquiry (if not the bad guy himself) will use a product that is rare enough that the detectives can find out who used it.

 

 

Well, it isn't as though that has never happened in real life - OJ's shoes come immediately to mind.

 

I had heard of air rights because my husband's cousin is a lawyer in NYC that handles that stuff. I'm one of those weirdos that like the regulations and rules stuff, going over all those documents. But then, I watched this during the day because I was not staying up to watch on Thursday night, so seeing someone read and discuss was easier to handle.

 

 

It's a big issue in NYC. They are doing a reverse version of it at a Broadway house, the Palace theater, soon. They are lifting the theater so they can put in businesses below it.

 

agree that the actress at the Save the Neighborhood (or whatever it was called) office was misused. I don't recall her name, but I've loved her in everything I've seen her in.

 

 

Jackie Hoffman, a well-known Broadway actress. One of those you love or you hate. I liked her in this role, but really dislike her as a live performer. She tends to ad lib and upstage other actors when she performs live.

 

This is a touchy subject with me--as someone who does NOT have MS but who has a neuromuscular disease. I'm going to let it go. I'll just say it did not ring true for me.

 

 

Fair enough. I hope your situation is manageable.  I have to wonder, though - does this mean we'll see less of Aiden? If he couldn't hold his marriage together because of his dedication to his work with a healthy woman, how will he cope with balancing his job with being a caregiver?

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Kathira

Kathira

She and Sherlock must be making good money if she is buying $1000 coats. Then again, are she and Sherlock not paying rent since Morland owns it? Living rent free definitely frees up a lot more disposable income!

 

Also, as a sample-size woman living in one of the great fashion centers of the world, Joan would have easy access to all kinds of high-end clothing at very good prices.

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