S01.E04: Manly Whatnots

[Tara Ariano]

Lucifer deduces that he must seduce Chloe if he is to get over his infatuation with her. Meanwhile, they take on a missing-girl case and Amenadiel expresses his concerns about Lucifer to Maze.

[Guest]

Its interesting that they are moving to making Lucifer vulnerable / more human this fast and that he's liking the change.  It makes me think something is going to happen to reverse that pretty drastically by the end of the season.

[FormerMod-a1]

I sure hope so, because otherwise I am hating the rapid human-ifying of him.

[Actionmage]

I enjoyed Maze and Amendiel's tussle. The look of shock/surprise on Amendiel's face after Mazikeen licked him? Priceless. He was still thinkin' about it after she left. I do think they may negotiate something. Maze doesn't seem inclined to trust someone who was Team Anyone-But-Lucifer as Amendiel seems to be painted, but in order to save him from himself, she might prefer choosing someone with more of the Big Picture than Chloe the Mere Mortal.

 

I hated that Chloe felt she should apologize to Officer Douchebag. Even if she was sleeping with Lucifer ( please never sleep with Lucifer), it's none of his biz, even with Beatrice. ( Lucifer and the bacon, acting like she was a puppy is still a little funny.) Unless dude is actually in charge of her caseload or in her chain of command, he doesn't get to sign off on what she does. There's being mindful of your ex and trying not to be antagonistic, then there is not your problem.

 

If Lucifer "turns" mortal, who benefits? Not Mazikeen or Amendiel, as they are trying pretty dang hard to get Capt. Sexy back in his box. Supposedly, Lu's father is indifferent, but we keep hearing that awful, terrible things will happen if Lucifer doesn't do as he's told. Who is the person/demon/god who gets to whatever if this turns into a permanent vacay?  That is who Amendiel should be keeping an eye on, imo. (Maybe we can get Amendiel talking to Destiny about how to nudge Lucifer back? Or trying to get Death to talk to Lucifer? Or Desire wants to hang out and see what's so fascinating? That would be cool.)

 

I felt bad for Dr. Linda this week. Hopefully, Lucifer will double the usual "payment", regardless of mortality status.

[HalcyonDays]

Its interesting that they are moving to making Lucifer vulnerable / more human this fast and that he's liking the change.  It makes me think something is going to happen to reverse that pretty drastically by the end of the season.

 

I'm curious if anyone who shoots Lucifer would still injure him, or was it only that Chloe shot him, that he got injured. Because as Dr. Linda mentioned, that he put Chloe on a pedestal and in turn, seems to lose his "power." She used it as a metaphore, but he really did lose his power. If someone else shot at him, would he actually get bloodied and feel pain?

 

Good episode - enjoyed it. Very interesting reaction to when Chloe tried to touch his wing scars. Shocked that he would cut them off though - maybe he might need them in the future.

 

Chloe seeing more and more that there is something not right. However, she seemed to quickly forget about it. If Lucifer really wants to prove he's the devil, why doesn't he flash his devil face/chance his eyes. Maybe it only comes out when he is going to punish someone, and they are scared of him.

 

I expected him to be more upset that he could be shot, not so nonchalant about it.

 

Shallow comment of the episode: Dear god, Tom Ellis is hot. Like, smoking smoking hot. Yes show, please show Lucifer sans clothes at least once an episode, plskthx.

[Gigi43]

The party/case reminded me of things SVU used to cover. And then annoyed me SVU barely does stuff like that anymore. Piled on top of being mad the promo was grossly misleading this would be a more Angel-centric ep. Are those meetings really a "thing" as Dan suggested they are today?

 

What I got from Chloe nodding along to the music, and my inability to tell if she was totally lying to those guys with the pick up lines, is that she herself is rather cheesy. Dan is definitely not an aggressive guy from what we've seen, so it makes sense.

 

The humanization of Lucifer better be short lived. It's way too soon for stuff like that. It was predictable too (by people on this board!) the bleeding would be used to throw Chloe off of the truth for at least another week. Though, did she see his eyes change or not? That should overpower bleeding. Barging into a therapists office ignoring a patient already in the room is a played gag.  I appreciate the show bothered to give Chloe a visible bullet hole, at least. I also liked Lucifer pointing out STD's are a suitable punishment for that guy, not death. Ellis continues to master line deliveries.

[jay741982]

Chloe looked Hot in that red dress.

[Guest]

One thought I did have in this episode was.... What happens if you test Lucifer's DNA, Chloe?

[storyskip]

I enjoyed this episode, even as I was face palming at Lucifer being his impossible self.

 

The bacon and Trixie ... can we just have an episode of Lucifer and Trixie?  I know, it would probably be overload but Tom Ellis and the young actress bring an adorable whimsy to that dynamic, even when Lucifer is being horrible about children.

 

Again, looking at the source material they are sticking to that with the lack of wings.  He did give up his wings in the comics and had to go through a difficult trial, powerless, to get them back.  So the concept of Lucifer 'humanized' is actually not that far off from the source material.  Now, he's less enamored of it in the comics and works hard to get his full powers back but that is part of the story, so having it be part of the TV show makes sense.

 

Also, if it cuts down on the special effects budget, well you know the execs at Fox are going to like that, let's be real here.

 

Mazikeen vs Amenadiel .. more please!  That was a really well choreographed fight and I'd enjoy seeing more of those.  

 

I also like the theory that Lucifer got 'injured' because it was Chloe who pulled the trigger, though from the previews next week that doesn't look like it's the case. It's interesting that they hinted at the fact that maybe it's because Chloe doesn't believe in/fear him is part of what interferes with his influence over her.  I'd rather they go that route with it than some 'she's part angel' angle.

 

And to give the devil it's due, I actually for the first time enjoyed the chemistry between Chloe and Lucifer when she tried to touch the scars on his back and after she shot him/he lied for her.  Baby steps!

Edited February 16, 2016 by storyskip

[tennisgurl]

The fight between Amendiel and Maze was pretty hot, not going to lie. Poor guy seemed utterly perplexed as to what to do about her, and her leather clad ways. 

 

So Lucifer is becoming human? How...does that work, exactly? Could be an interesting development, but I cant imagine it will stick, this early in the series. Also, the ruined wings scene was interesting. Even with him now being able to bleed, that has to give you some pause, Chloe. 

 

The COTW was alright, although I wondered if they were going into darker territory with the pick up artist stuff. I liked how mad Lucifer seemed to be at the woman shooter. He makes a good point. Sleeping with someone and not calling them again is an asshole thing to do, but its not worthy of murder. 

[Jlina]

O.M.Geeeee.  This guy is hawt.  Maybe it is CGI on the eyes but I cannot look away from the screen.  Even if he's a little thin and kind of effeminate at times, he has restored my faith in beautiful men.

 

Plus the story angles for fun often enough that it makes it enjoyable too.

 

I will be glad when or if they go into the dark side mythology more often and deeper and love having the therapist included for exposition. 

 

It will be interesting to see just how "not human" he really is at some point..or how human he becomes.

[FormerMod-a1]

Chloe sure looked a long time at Luci's nakedness.  Not that I can blame her.   (Cliche though it may be)  

[Bobbin]

Lucifer is not going to show his true face to Chloe just to prove who he is -- all of the people who have seen it went raving mad.

[Actionmage]

Who would Mazikeen turn to for help in getting Lucifer "back home"?

 

a) Chloe, the cop/ object of Lu's obsession

b) Dr. Linda, a sex partner who Lucifer actually listens to, even if he doesn't always get what Dr. Linda's putting down

c) Beatrice, she seems to be most sensible about Lucifer

d) Amandiel, a brother angel who is a pushy sunuvagun

e) someone else

or

f) no one else?

[thuganomics85]

Lucifer really is losing his powers, huh?  At least his ability to be immortal.  Unless this does end up being a case where only Chloe can hurt him.  Either way, I can't see this lasting too long, because I would think him being immortal is one of things that makes him different from the snarky, anti-heroes on other cops shows.

 

This was probably the most I liked the Lucifer/Chloe pairing and interactions.  The scene were Chloe was "dancing" along with the lame pick-up artist's cheesy music showed a more fun sign to her, and their bit with his scars, was a more serious side to the relationship.  I do think a hook-up will happen some day.  Lucifer obviously made his intentions known (to say the least), and Chloe clearly is somewhat attracted to him, since she seem to take a long time to finally look away from his nakedness.

 

Case of the week was alright, although I figured the twist out since I knew the actress from True Blood (Bailey Noble), and figured she would be more involved then just a captive.

 

More Amenadiel/Mazikeen scenes, please.  Those two were fun together.  Enjoy seeing Lesley-Ann Brandt play a more arrogant, confident character, compared to her Naevia on Spartacus.

[forum4idiots]

i really wanted to enjoy this show.....but everything is just getting old.  even the accent is getting old.  anyone else getting sick of the same old snark he does to "tempt" people?

[cynic]

Seriously, is Chloe supposed to still be recovering from her wounds or is just about to be diagnosed with some life-threatening illness? Why does her makeup make her look like death? Her eyes look bruised and the rest is just sallow.

 

Tom Ellis is gorgeous and charming, but Lucifer's schtick can only take this show so far, imo at least.  I can't just watch for him. The procedural stuff is a bore and the "banter" between him and Chloe is annoying. 

 

I did enjoy Maz and Amenadiel. I also thought Ellis was really good in the wings scene....his nakedness might have influenced that slightly, but I really did think so.

[Sandman87]

Somehow I knew how the episode's crime of the week was going to play out as soon as they said it was a kidnapping for ransom. I'm not sure what tipped me off about it.

 

Silly Maze! You can't beat an angel with knives. You have to wrestle 'em, like Jacob did in Genesis.

Somehow I knew how the episode's crime of the week was going to play out as soon as they said it was a kidnapping for ransom. I'm not sure what tipped me off about it.

 

Silly Maze! You can't beat an angel with knives. You have to wrestle 'em, like Jacob did in Genesis.

[GaT]

When the Twilight movies came out on DVD, they had a feature for people who were Team Edward or Team Jacob. It would skip the parts with the guy you didn't like so you wouldn't have to see him. I wish they would put something like that on this show so I could watch without seeing Chloe.

[johntfs]

I liked the gay dude.

 

Meanwhile, if they really need a terrifying demonic figure to run Hell, they should recruit Bill Cipher from Gravity Falls.

Edited February 16, 2016 by johntfs

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Bacon for the lil pup?  Priceless!  All the rest of it was pretty turrible, though.

 

Of all the nonsense, Amendiel being tempted, even a smidge of a skosh, is too much and the worst of it.  Think of the ultimate original source material.  Lucifer tempted and was banished.  The very last thing that Amendiel would EVER allow is for some kind of temptation.  He (It?) is an angel and as he said, a little demon can't, literally, touch him.  The show is going too damn far.  There is only so much one can mess with the "book" before anything can happen and the writers/showrunners can just make it ALL up as they go along.  That isn't art.  It is garbage.  If they wanted to create a completely alternate universe, it would be fine.  The problem is they insist on, and the entire hook is, the original story.

 

Chloe absolutely saw his demonic face and it rightly scared the stew out of her.  Four minutes later she was "acting" (lousy acting by German) like the distressed girlfriend whose BF has a bad boo boo.  So bad.  How long before her bullet wound goes away as if it never happened?  I give it two more eps.  Tops.  Her knobby-knock knees?  She's kinda stuck with them.  Oh well.  Life's hell, eh?

 

Oh.  His wings may have been clipped, but based on Chloe's reaction, it seems the rod was spared.  We all know what happens when rods are spared, don't we?  :)

Edited February 16, 2016 by Lonesome Rhodes

[BooBear]

I liked the gay dude.

 

That cracked me up. I knew they were going to go there eventually but it was so blunt. For about the first 15 minutes I laughed wildly.  But, something that is increasingly bothering me is that we never see Chloe at the office. I was excited we finally got a boss but I feel like like they are holding off on that wing of the story until they see if the series goes. But it is awkward. Having Dan brief her at her kitchen table? How exactly does this police office work?

 

I thought it was interesting that Luci didn't seem concerned about the wings. What does no one else recoil in horror when they see those scars? I can't believe that Luci's humanity has to do with Chloe not fearing him. I get the feeling she is increasingly fearing him as she is starting to believe and /or know there is something off with him.  When Chloe was beaming after Luci lied to her boss I took that as relief that he bled and she was satisfied that he wasn't the devil.  Though personally it might bother me that he was possibly mentally ill.

 

The procedural aspect is hard. Boring and stale.  I just don't know how the series is going to get around it without boring the audience.

[Trisan]

The Chloe-bantering keeps on going... well, not for me...

 

I'm really invested in her character, and it doesnt hurt that she's gorgeous as hell (that red dress, oh my Satan !)... and after all, it's only fair that us men can appreciate a bombshell in that show, considering how women have it with Lucy (whom I'd freeze Hell to look like him !)

[TobinAlbers]

 

I liked the gay dude.

 

I really wish Lucifer had given him the once over and handed the guy his card with instructions to give him a call later for drinks since he was currently there on business.

 

Amendiel was grossed out by demon cooties after Maze licked him. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

In one of the episode descriptions for upcoming weeks it's

Dr. Linda

that Amendiel and Maze go to for help with Lucifer.

 

Lucifer's strangled noise when Trixie launched herself at him for a hug was just so appropriate for those who are not into children. Then he tries to lure her away like a puppy using bacon.

 

Given that they've seen each other naked and he's SO intent on having sex with her, there's no way that they'd have Chloe be Lucifer's daughter or granddaughter would they? I kind of want there to be a swerve so it's not so typical female cop and male non cop ( See also Sleepy Hollow, Rosewood, Castle, Forever) fall in love.

[Zipper]

I'm almost as interested in how they managed to humanize Chloe this episode as I am about the Lucifer bleed.  Her embarrassment with Dan in the opening scene came off credibly, including the unnecessary apology; her dorking out to the music (either ironically or not); her clear appreciation for the Lucibod; her empathy for his scars (great moment); and her ongoing struggle with his proclaimed identity. I enjoyed her much more this week.  Tom Ellis is doing so well with his role, they needed an episode that elevated Chloe-- both in writing and in acting, and I think this was a good step in that direction. 

 

It's a hard balance-- on one hand, we know he's capital "D" the Devil.  But if I had a super good looking, rich, quippy British dude show up at my job once a week (or for a week, the show's timeline isn't very important to me, so I don't know or care how much time has passed) and tell me he was Satan a few times, I would have to see some pretty amazing stuff-- on repeat-- before I even thought about believing him.  Because that is CRAZY.  The actual Devil in our space and time.  She doesn't even believe in this "stuff" so it's doubly challenging.  I think episode 4 is a good time for her to start acknowledging that something is up, and I'm okay with her not "believing" fully for a while.  Once she acknowledges his identity, this show changes into something else, or it becomes the Devil solving crimes with his cute gal pal, and I'm not sure that has any legs.

  

And many thanks for the restraint in make-up this week. 

[HalcyonDays]

her clear appreciation for the Lucibod.

 

You just won this thread, and nickname of the year! Love this!

 

Lucifer tempted and was banished.  The very last thing that Amendiel would EVER allow is for some kind of temptation.  He (It?) is an angel and as he said, a little demon can't, literally, touch him.

 

I don't know anything about the comics, just what's on screen, but since it's a TV show, I am sure they will spin some things differently. So if demon cannot literally touch an angel, then this is a huge development - no wonder Amendiel responded as he did. So it is Amendiel's frequent visits to the Earthly realm, or the consequences of Lucifer being out of hell for a long time that allowed Maze to actually touch him? Besides, who is to say that the other Angels are 100% untemptable? Maybe the lines between heaven and hell are starting to blur? Just throwing it out there.

[Gigi43]

I'm almost as interested in how they managed to humanize Chloe this episode as I am about the Lucifer bleed.  Her embarrassment with Dan in the opening scene came off credibly, including the unnecessary apology;

 

Yeah, I didn't see the apology at all as something she thought she genuinely owed Dan or anything, it's just something people do when they're embarrassed, and especially with how off guard she was about whole thing from Lucifer breaking in to Dan/Trixie showing up, it totally fit. I probably would have apologized too for the randomness of it all, for lack of not knowing what else to do, not because I was guilt ridden. I didn't think Dan was too dickish either, though. Lucifer is clearly... strange... not too mention he keeps insulting Dan to both their faces, so seeing your ex with a guy like that in that situation, has to be a bit weird.

 

Lucifer should stalk Dan for an episode if he wants to find out how to attract Chloe. Separated or not, he pulled it off once. My guess is Dan sent Edible Arrangements instead of breaking into her house and cooking.

 

As for Amendiel being tempted... well, Lucifer seems to think he's next in line to take over hell, so, could his sort of temptation actually be "Dad" setting the stage for Amendiel's possible "fall" as he once did for Lucifer, since Luci isn't showing any signs of going back. He's becoming more... Lucifer-ish as Lucifer maybe is becoming more human? Just throwing this out there.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Gigi43

[Zipper]

I get the feeling she is increasingly fearing him as she is starting to believe and /or know there is something off with him. 

 

Totally agree.  She caught something in that reflection that scared the crap out of her.  He pressed that fear, and then demanded she test his repeated claims of immortality.  I don't think she pulls the trigger without soul-shaking fear.  I've been thinking about Chloe and what happens when she ultimately realizes he is who he says he is.  Believer or not, when confronted with Satan, banished son of God as a reality, I think it's enough to drive someone completely insane.  All of a sudden, it's not a Judeo-Christian archetype, it's real (and that comes with damnation, eternal pain, hellfire, and the reality of God in some fashion; its A LOT). I'm not much of a believer, but I would have shot for center mass on the terror alone.  So I think a lot of care has to be taken in Chloe's realization, because if too easily taken, it's cheap and deprives the viewer of that whole conflict dynamic.  If too realistic, she's batsh*t crazy in one moment, unless there is something about her that allows her to hold this truth in a way different from mere mortals.  I sure hope the writers are up to this, because it could be really cool. 

[izabella]

So Lucifer is becoming human?  How is that happening - is that by design (punishment for staying on earth too long), consequence (staying on earth too long or becoming friendly with humans makes you become human), or accidental (because he is starting to feel something for humans, he is becoming human), or something else?

 

And what happens if he is killed?  Seems like that would be a huge problem for the Underworld if his vacation is already so much of a problem.

She caught something in that reflection that scared the crap out of her.

 

I slow-mo'd and paused - there was indeed a very clear reflection of Lucifer in that mirror, with his devil face and glowing red eyes.  It was brief, but Chloe saw it for sure.  

[CoyoteBlue]

Yeah, I didn't see the apology at all as something she thought she genuinely owed Dan or anything, it's just something people do when they're embarrassed, and especially with how off guard she was about whole thing from Lucifer breaking in to Dan/Trixie showing up, it totally fit. [...] Lucifer is clearly... strange... not too mention he keeps insulting Dan to both their faces, so seeing your ex with a guy like that in that situation, has to be a bit weird.

Dan seemed to say that they are just separated, not completely divorced. He's probably not expecting naked breakfast encounters with new men in her life just yet. I do think she could have managed to explain that the reason she's wearing a towel is because Lucifer broke in while she was in the shower and she thought he was an intruder. I mean, explaining that Lucifer is crazy and has no boundaries would not be a new concept for Dan. :)

Edited February 16, 2016 by CoyoteBlue

[HunterHunted]

I liked the gay dude.

Meanwhile, if they really need a terrifying demonic figure to run Hell, they should recruit Bill Cipher from Gravity Falls.

Bill Cipher gives me nightmares. It's funny that you mention Gravity Falls because Lucifer has such a hard time shading its protagonist, but Gravity Falls, a children's show, does it so well. Gravity Falls is so good at showing that Dipper and Mabel can be venal, arrogant, and selfish, but ultimately are good people. At the same time Grunkle Stan is a terrible person, but loves his family and would do anything for them. I wish this show would write Lucifer as well as Gravity Falls wrote Grunkle Stan. Or at least as terrifying as Gravity Falls wrote Bill Cipher.

Edited February 16, 2016 by HunterHunted

[Danny Franks]

"Really, Chloe? I'm disappointed in you." Douchenozzle move by the douchenozzle ex. 

 

I like that Lucifer is genuinely confused and distressed that Chloe won't sleep with him. It takes the 'smooth, shallow ladies man' trope to its ultimate conclusion. He's not just assuming that all women want him because he's hot and charming, it's because he has a supernatural ability to entice them. And then using that as a contrast to the sleazy, inadequate morons who think they can 'learn' how to pick up women from misogynists who tell them that they're entitled to was nicely done. Lucifer thinking the best way to lose interest in a woman is to sleep with her is pretty much the perfect denunciation of these attitudes.

 

Honestly though, turning this into a 'will they, won't they' is bound to fail. Just have them sleep together before Chloe inevitably finds out he's really the Devil, and then deal with the fallout of her finding out. That could actually be an interesting story to tell. Sadly, it looks more like they're going to tell the 'Lucifer is really a massive wooby and is just in so much manpain and just needs a good woman to help him heal' story. Ugh.

 

Mazikeen temping Amendiel was interesting. She's a demon, so I guess that's her job. And he seems primed for a fall. I agree it looks like the long term narrative for the show would be him and Lucifer changing places. Luckily, it isn't likely to last long enough for us to see a 'Lucifer seeks God's forgiveness' storyline.

[gwhh]

If you notice they BOTH looked at each other naked bodies for a LONG time!   Once by accident and once on purpose!

 

And only Lucifer said her was just as great today as it was back in that movie.

 

Chloe loved touching the lucibod also   

 

Her clear appreciation for the Lucibod.  So cool of a term!

[Bruinsfan]

One thought I did have in this episode was.... What happens if you test Lucifer's DNA, Chloe?

That is interesting to consider. Is he merely manifesting a human body to wear like a suit (the "is this thing working?" comment to Dr. Linda would seem to imply so) or does his physical appearance mirror something fundamental about his essence (as the wing scars imply)? In the former case I can see perfectly human DNA that has no special qualities beyond great bone structure once removed from Lucifer's person. In the latter, he might not actually have DNA, or even be composed of normal atomic matter at all. What does materialized ectoplasm look like under a microscope?

 

Lucifer is not going to show his true face to Chloe just to prove who he is -- all of the people who have seen it went raving mad.

Again I think the SFX people are really falling down on the job if that's the demonic visage that's supposed to be driving people stark raving mad. Almost everyone today has seen much worse in horror movies or your average episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I think they would have done better to look to some of John Carpernter's movies like The Thing or In the Mouth of Madness for inspiration about depicting inhuman evil that would make people's worldviews shatter (hint: waving tentacles and wet, insect-like background sounds have a much stronger visceral impact than someone looking like a burn victim).

 

I do think a hook-up will happen some day.  Lucifer obviously made his intentions known (to say the least), and Chloe clearly is somewhat attracted to him, since she seem to take a long time to finally look away from his nakedness.

Well, she does have eyes after all.

 

I really wish Lucifer had given him the once over and handed the guy his card with instructions to give him a call later for drinks since he was currently there on business.

That would have been preferable, but at least Lucifer offered the excuse that he was too busy at the moment rather than uninterested as a matter of principle. And it was good to see confirmation that he has the same effect on anyone who finds men attractive (except Chloe).

[Primetimer]

Lucifer discovers that the horrors of Hell are nothing compared to an afternoon spent in a seminar full of aspiring pick-up artists in this episode's case of the week. Chloe discovers…well, nothing, because she's not exactly a Batman-level detective.

Read the story

[zxy556575]

I really like Chloe and think German does a very serviceable-to-good job with the lines given her (ignoring the whole "so beautiful as to be kind of unbelievable as a tough cop" thing). But I don't want her to become romantically or sexually involved with Luci, just for the cliche factor, and hope the show doesn't go there. I'm enjoying the gradual softening of her initial antagonism, but would prefer she remain wary and uncertain about Lucifer's identity and motives. I assume she'll eventually learn/accept the truth, and how she handles that arc has intriguing potential, including possible interactions with Amenadiel et al and damage to her own psyche.

Edited February 17, 2016 by lordonia

[storyskip]

A little side observation on Luci and Trixie.  Going to open this with a quick disclaimer:  Yes I know the last thing a network show would 'show' is any sort of harshness towards a child Trixie's age, but the script writers didn't have to have a 'child' character unless it brought something to the narrative.  It's not like cute child characters are a major draw for the 18-45 demographic.

 

In another chapter of how this show can be subtle (when it's not dropping anvils) is the dynamic between these two and what it showcases about Lucifer's character. We know he doesn't lie and he has no reservations of telling adults and angelic brothers where to get off but Trixie is different.

 

It would be easy for him to flat out say to her face "I don't like you, I find you tedious and beneath my notice, go away" after all, from what he 'says' to Chloe about children, you'd think those words would be pre-programmed on his lips.  But when actually faced with a child (an 'innocent' not a bully like the other girl was painted to be) he ties himself up like a pretzel to keep from being either physically or emotionally crushing.

 

We've seen him throw fully grown men through glass and this week he cloths-lined the brother without a thought, yet every time Trixie throws herself on him and hugs him, though he reacts all "Eeek!" he's incredibly tolerant with her, hell this week she grabbed his fingers and was tugging him along to go look at a 7 year old's bird report and he was going.  

 

Counter balance this with the way he held on to the money with a grown man yanking on the bag with all his strength and there was no give to Lucifer.  He wouldn't even have to use angelic ability to hold his ground when Trixie tugged him away, just stand firm and say "No, I'm going to talk to your father a moment", especially since he'd be facing off with Detective Douche, which we know he LOVES to do, but instead, off he goes.

 

Where Lucifer is quite sharp with adults who vex him, with Trixie he usually tries to distract/re-direct her, setting her up on the bed with Chloe in the pilot, the silliness with the doll in the second episode, now bacon.  Anything rather than a direct, "I don't like you, stop talking to me" but at the same time he's never patronizing.  His distraction techniques are either genuine (save some of this unpleasantness for your mother, here you go) or so awkward/ridiculous that they're amusing.

 

It's a quick/subtle nod back to what was pointed out in this week's write up of TV.  This version of Lucifer isn't the being who "makes" humans do anything.  He's a punisher of the guilty but he's not an evil sin maker; humans can do that all on their own (again the theme of Free Will and what you do with it).  When faced with a child who is still an 'innocent' (hey she has the internet, loss of some innocence right there) he's flummoxed but goes out of his way not to bring harm to her.

[saber5055]

Lucifer says he doesn't have a tail, but then flashes his "real" face (that looks just like our "traditional" devil face) to scare the bejezus out of people and send them into shock? Please. That BLACK look he gave Chloe when she wanted to check out his wing scars was enough to back me off. And her, obviously. 

 

Plus Lucifer was a real tool for cutting Chloe off about those scars, just when she was getting empathy for him. Lucifer should have paid attention to early episodes of Arrow to see how Oliver's scars worked magic on getting Laurel into bed. You blew it big time, Lucifer.

Edited February 16, 2016 by saber5055

[izabella]

Plus Lucifer was a real tool for cutting Chloe off about those scars, just when she was getting empathy for him

 

Sympathy for the Devil? 

[Happy Harpy]

I absolutely loved this one. I laughed out loud half of the time. The balance between fun/second degree and serious was almost perfect for me. 

 

I liked Chloe, now I love Chloe. I'm glad that the writing allowed her to show vulnerability, humor and empathy. And the moment when Lucifer grabbed her hand was hot, sorry not sorry.

 

Trixie is a paranormal TV phenomenom for me. Or she actually has Lucifer's powers of seduction. First, there's the whole "I love a kid character". And now, I want to say things like "give me more Trixifer scenes". I need help.

 

Probably unpopular, but I find Maze more interesting fighting dirty with Amenadiel than fangirling/nagging around Lucifer.

 

One of the funniest moment for me was Lucifer testing even Dr Linda's patience with his deductions.

[Danny Franks]

Sympathy for the Devil? 

 

Well I think we can see that Lucifer is clearly a man of wealth and taste.

 

This version of Lucifer isn't the being who "makes" humans do anything.  He's a punisher of the guilty but he's not an evil sin maker; humans can do that all on their own (again the theme of Free Will and what you do with it).  When faced with a child who is still an 'innocent' (hey she has the internet, loss of some innocence right there) he's flummoxed but goes out of his way not to bring harm to her.

 

 

That is an interesting take on the character, and one that makes a TV show about him more viable than just having him be evil. But we need to see more evidence that punishing people is something he has done with enjoyment, and with no small measure of 'eye for an eye' fury. He is one of God's children, after all. I'd like to see if, when he inevitably starts to unravel, he begins to look for guilt and wrongdoing where there is none, just so he can punish people. 

 

Trixie is a paranormal TV phenomenom for me. Or she actually has Lucifer's powers of seduction. First, there's the whole "I love a kid character". And now, I want to say things like "give me more Trixifer scenes". I need help.

 

 

I do enjoy Lucifer's scenes with Trixie, just for his magnificently odd attempts to treat her like a wayward puppy. And Laura German is very convincing as her mother. Her and the kid have nice chemistry in their scenes. But I could have done without the anvil of, 'if you shot him, you must really like him'.

 

Yes. She does like him, that's quite clear. It's also clear that the writers don't plan on the attraction vanishing or morphing into platonic friendship. I just wish they'd bone and get to the next level, where she has to deal with the fact she's sleeping with the devil.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Danny Franks

[storyskip]

That is an interesting take on the character, and one that makes a TV show about him more viable than just having him be evil. But we need to see more evidence that punishing people is something he has done with enjoyment, and with no small measure of 'eye for an eye' fury. He is one of God's children, after all. I'd like to see if, when he inevitably starts to unravel, he begins to look for guilt and wrongdoing where there is none, just so he can punish people. 

 

 

It's the take of DC Vertigo comics that this show is based on.  I'm not sure of the rules for linking but if you google Vertigo Lucifer it will pop up.  Initially introduced in Neil Gaimen's Sandman comics, this take on Lucifer is more Milton-esq than the Biblical 'EVIL'.  Mike Carey explores the idea of Free Will, the choices humans make as their own downfall and Lucifer is/was more a puppet in his "Father's" grand plan, than EVIL, capital E.  The thrust of the story isn't about Lucifer looking for redemption from "Dad" in fact he's got no interest in "Dad" or "Dad's plans" anymore.  He wants what humans have, Free Will.  He wants freedom from the Silver City.

 

At the time we meet him, really meet him, he's grown bored with punishing people (he's been doing it for eons after all) and really only punishes people who go too far (Elaine's foster father when he's abusing her) or when they cross Lucifer directly.  Then he gets nasty.  He's very much a "doesn't start the fight but definitely finishes it" mindset.

 

The TV show has given the character a lot more of a light hearted almost gleefulness, which he needs for TV, to be honest.  But otherwise, they really have been sticking to the core elements of the character from the comic series.  

[Bruinsfan]

It's possible that Lucifer has an entirely pragmatic reason for treating Trixie with kid gloves, so to speak. This is a setting where there is literally a benevolent God up in heaven watching everything people do; I'd imagine the chances of direct divine intervention ratchet way up if a supernatural creature causes unneeded trauma to innocent children. Lucifer's intended part of the divine plan is punishing sinners, so there's probably not the same sort of risk associated with beating the crap out of murderers and scumbags.

[Gigi43]

Maybe Lucifer is holding on to some respect for her punishment skills from the Pilot. He was clearly impressed, after all.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Gigi43

[Hiddenpick]

Oh Lucifer...his frenzy of rapid one liners, wisecracking philosophizing makes him a sort of a Chandler Bing with confidence and ..(wait....wait) a devil-may-care style. O.M.G. What is clear is that he treats his existence as a joke, and his concern about his possible mortality is not one he presumably cares about. He is more intrigued by humanity and its unknowns than how these possible changes will impact his hedonistic life style. I mean he seems to have no purpose other than debauchery. Weeellll..actually that and he's also quite amusing.

 

The crime/procedural plot this week was extremely uninvolving. Seems they are getting more and more dumb. I mean a motivational speaker with a caveman mentality message whose ex girlfriend (he took her virginity as some sort of experiment,) tries to get back at him by having him fall for her so that she could destroy him..really?

 

I have come to the conclusion that, the pitiful procedural are time fillers, so I am now enlisted in a seven step program (PTP- pass the procedural) which allows me to ignore their worth within the story and rely on the gift of laugh that Lucifer offers. However there were times this week that his quips didn't hit the mark for me, which, at interims, made him a little less charismatic. Not a whole lot you understand, just enough to make those moments flat. However, thankfully, joyously those hiccups were outweighed by the introduction of a new set of emotional traits for Lucifer---exposure and sensitivity. Not the mushy kind of sensitivity or raw exposure, but tinged with acute wickedness. It's his serious somewhat 'fragile' side that not only changed the pace and charged the scenes but gave me a tiny and welcomed reprieve from the constant wisecracking.

 

His reaction to Chloe's touch and her interest in his scar was a revealing moment, for example. He snaps at her, changing his affect to one of ..well, sensitivity and a bit of sadness. Another was the was the moment when he was shot. His reaction is at first disbelief and then shock and then I think comes quickly to a decision that being hurt is something that intrigues him. 

I wonder if Chloe's immunity to his persuasive 'powers' has to do with her secular beliefs? She's an atheist I think? So could it be that her non-belief is a factor? I dunno just seemed the conversation they had was kinda random.

 

Maze and Amendiel's confrontation was a cool a cheap man's Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon fight moment. Not to mention Maze's tongue lashing..er..no means no.

Lucifer's conclusion to the psychologists advice was hilarious, but it was those nude scenes that were interesting. Yes they both took a good long look, and it wasn't hard..um..to see why.

Trixie is the cutest thing.

 

 

 

 

 

[rubyred]

I dunno, I just can't get into Chloe. Or maybe it's German as Chloe. She's got the shit job, being the straight woman, and I sympathize with that. But I'm never convinced that she's even a TV cop, let alone real cop. And I think if she were truly as unruffled about Lucifer and his attractions as we've been told previously, she wouldn't have been as embarrassed as she was by Lucifer's nudity. I like how Rachael Harris' character is able to "work within the metaphor' of Lucifer being the devil and still have credibility as a character. If Chloe's entire arc is going to be "Chloe learns to accept that Lucifer is really the devil" -- well dang, what a yawn, The audience has known that from jump. The stuff that's really interesting about this show has nothing to do with Chloe, and the banal COTW procedural format only highlights that.

She's just so...run-of-the-mill TV actress, and doesn't bring anything special to the role. The overworked single-mom cop is a well-worn trope, I wish there was something unique to hook in to. And that thing would not be "Hot Tub High School."

[storyskip]

It's possible that Lucifer has an entirely pragmatic reason for treating Trixie with kid gloves, so to speak. This is a setting where there is literally a benevolent God up in heaven watching everything people do; I'd imagine the chances of direct divine intervention ratchet way up if a supernatural creature causes unneeded trauma to innocent children. Lucifer's intended part of the divine plan is punishing sinners, so there's probably not the same sort of risk associated with beating the crap out of murderers and scumbags.

 

Actually, if they follow the source material (though being that this is network I suspect they'll just skirt it) "Dad" has left the Silver City and been uninvolved in things for quite some time.  This is part of why angels like Amenadiel are so tetchy; their strict world order has been a sham for awhile now.  Many can't figure out what to do without someone to follow and those trying to keep things in 'order' are getting pretty desperate trying to fake it.

 

Amenadiel talks about going to "Father" on Lucifer's behalf but I suspect he's trading on the threat of "Dad" rather than the reality.  After all, if "Dad" really cared that much ... why is Amenadiel seeking to make deals with lower demons like Mazikeen?

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they do something similar with the TV Show.  Maybe not the level of detail the comics go into with Elaine's story arc but take a similar approach to explain why "Dad" doesn't just step in and make Lucifer go back to Hell.

Edited February 17, 2016 by storyskip

[Danny Franks]

And I think if she were truly as unruffled about Lucifer and his attractions as we've been told previously, she wouldn't have been as embarrassed as she was by Lucifer's nudity.

 

But that's the point. She's not unruffled by him. She is attracted to him, but doesn't want to admit it. Just like every straight woman in a procedural 'will they, won't they' show. I felt like that was inferred in previous episodes, and they really cemented it in this one, even including the anvil of Trixie pointing out that Chloe likes Lucifer.

 

The difference is that Chloe is able to resist her attraction, unlike all of the other women (and men?) that Lucifer sets his gaze on. That's what makes her so intriguing to him. And I guess that spending time with her outside the boundaries of his usual human interactions (sex) is contributing heavily to his desire to change.

 

[Bruinsfan]

Actually, if they follow the source material (though being that this is network I suspect they'll just skirt it) "Dad" has left the Silver City and been uninvolved in things for quite some time.  This is part of why angels like Amenadiel are so tetchy; their strict world order has been a sham for awhile now.  Many can't figure out what to do without someone to follow and those trying to keep things in 'order' are getting pretty desperate trying to fake it.

 

Amenadiel talks about going to "Father" on Lucifer's behalf but I suspect he's trading on the threat of "Dad" rather than the reality.  After all, if "Dad" really cared that much ... why is Amenadiel seeking to make deals with lower demons like Mazikeen?

In the comics,

Yahweh didn't disengage from creation until about a third of the way through the series run, and Amenadiel's original dealings with Lucifer were by his command. (Though he later fomented an angelic invasion of LA to fight Lucifer without directives from higher up.) His goals don't seem to match up to the comics storyline, so it's hard to predict where they're going with the situation in Heaven. But I think it likely that God is behind the changes to Lucifer's state of being, whether or not Amenadiel is acting on his own initiative.

[storyskip]

True but in the comics:

 

But Yahweh wasn't part of why Lucifer lost his powers. Other deities getting into the mix, the corruption of his feathers, the different dimensions he visited but not Yahweh and if Yahweh is behind this, it's backfiring.

 

Also Lucifer never shows 'fear' of Yahweh or "Dad's" retribution.

 

But I agree that the TV show is making some definite deviations and I don't think they're going to involve Yahweh that closely.  I think his interaction with Trixie is more based on his own attitude/character development rather than a fear of what "Dad" might do.  I'd say that if Luci is careful about Trixie for the sake of anyone's opinion it's Chloe's.

 

Regardless, I just enjoy their dynamic. :)