S01.E03: The Would-Be Prince Of Darkness

[Tara Ariano]

Lucifer enlists Chloe to investigate after his friend, a 22-year-old star quarterback, awakes to find a dead woman floating in his swimming pool. Sofia Vassilieva as Debra, Bri Neal as Ali, Jodi Lyn O'Keefe as Ronnie, Richard T Jones as Joe Haran, Grant Harvey as Lucibro.

[Gigi43]

I hope the description means Lucifer has been going around to people he knows saying "if you see any murdered people, give me a call" (because I can picture him doing that), in search of a case to interact with Chloe over because I don't want him suddenly having " friends " who he genuinely wants to help, and stumbling into situations where people are killed around him like Delilah will get old.

[Bruinsfan]

I hope they mean "friend" in the sense of "favorite pet." Or maybe the kind of friend Linda is.

[thuganomics85]

Not a fan of this one.  Barely any of the angel stuff (no Amenadiel at all), and just way too much on the procedural, which easily gave the game away once I saw Richard T. Jones.  Sure, show.  Richard T. Jones is going to be a mere agent for one scene.  Thanks for trying!  Did enjoy Jodi Lyn O'Keefe camping it up as that "fixer."  Still remember her as Gretchen from Prison Break.

 

While I don't normal dislike Chloe as much as some, she was kind of getting on my nerves tonight, because I felt like she was jumping the gun a lot of times.  I get her suspecting the football player, but did she really have to go straight for the cuffs?  What happen to bringing him down to the station first and questioning him?  All they had was the sex tape, and that's worth an interrogation, but seem like a bit flimsy to go all "Cuff him!" about it.

 

Also, as dark as it would have been, I actually wanted Lucifer to go through with harming his imposter, because I do think he needs to keep some kind of edge this early on.  I get that he will probably end up getting softer as the show progresses and his bond with Chloe is stronger, but he is already feeling less like the Devil and more like a typical snarky anti-hero.  I was totally with Maz over that turn of events.

 

The stuff with Dr. Linda was fun at least.

 

Hope this was just typical filler, and things will pick up soon.

[Gigi43]

Too much talking about Lucifer changing. He's Lucifer the audience already knows the basics of Lucifer enough to recognize that going easy on people is not the norm for him. Sure he's been in LA 5 years but in the timespan of his change has been since meeting Chloe which seems too soon to be changing as fast as he seemingly is. At least they did include him tempting the girl into the pool.

The mention again Lucifer didn't enjoy running hell at first was the most interesting thing said in the episode. It plays in to the "inherently evil" question. If he was as God said wouldn't he have enjoyed it right away? Perhaps he's not "Changing", he's regressing to whoever he was before hell?

"Monkeybottoms" made me giggle... sometimes I'm 4.

Next week looks hopeful on the Angel-front. I really want to continue to like the whole show beyond just finding Tom Ellis very entertaining.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Gigi43

[piperkat]

 

as dark as it would have been, I actually wanted Lucifer to go through with harming his imposter, because I do think he needs to keep some kind of edge this early on.

 

Agreed. I can't help but think this show would be a lot better as a limited-run cable series. It has some interesting ideas, and the lead is compelling, but they tone the darkness down so much for network TV.  "Oops. Did I squeeze too hard?" was about as much edge as we got. Could you imagine the show as a 10-episode arc on FX or Netflix?

Plus, with a limited run, we wouldn't be stuck with all of the procedural filler.

 

What did Chloe see when she was running the tapes back at the end? She seemed confused, but Lucifer looked normal to me.

[missbonnie]

I thought he appeared normal as well and since I dvr'd it I replayed it several times. I didn't see anything except maybe a tint of red in his eyes, but it was very faint. On a shallow note, Ellis simply wears the hell out of a black suit but once the shirt comes off I'm out, he's too thin. As always YMMV.

Edited February 9, 2016 by missbonnie

[AshleyLyn]

Are they doing something with his eyes? They seem so....can't think of the right word but I think they're doing sone sort of CGI thing to them. I'm finding myself fascinated with his eyes.

[HalcyonDays]

I thought he appeared normal as well and since I dvr'd it I replayed it several times. I didn't see anything except maybe a tint of red in his eyes, but it was very faint. On a shallow note, Ellis simply wears the hell out of a black suit but once the shirt comes off I'm out, he's too thin. As always YMMV.

 

Yes he does - he wears it very well. Nah, he's not too thin for me at all. Dude's tall (6.3). He is quite nicely slender... /shallow

 

I too replayed a few times to see what she saw. He looked like himself, eyes and all, but something about maybe his expression peeked her interest. What I find interesting is that he does this stuff completely in front of everyone without worry.

 

I enjoyed the QB story - did they model him off Tebow? Though the motives for this agent to kill seemed weak.

 

Are they doing something with his eyes? They seem so....can't think of the right word but I think they're doing sone sort of CGI thing to them. I'm finding myself fascinated with his eyes.

 

His regular non-Devil eyes remind me of Richard Alpert (Nestor Carbonell) from Lost. They both have very dark lashes, which frames their eyes and makes them look like they are wearing eyeliner.

[xyzzy]

I wish they'd tone down Ellis' eyeliner. I've never seen him in anything else so I looked up some of his photos--he definitely doesn't have distichiasis, and it's weird to imagine Lucifer rolling out of bed, showering, and then carefully applying eyeliner and mascara before selecting a bespoke suit. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course--I just feel like Lucifer wouldn't care about makeup, especially given his line about being perfection already.

 

I think this episode was something of a step backwards. There was nothing to chew on. Lucifer easing up on punishing "himself" after his therapy session was just obvious and hokey. I mean, it's fine for a silly show, but I was hoping for more out of this series. Like some other posters here, I can't help but wistfully wonder what Netflix would have done with the Devil.

 

I didn't really get Chloe gripping her mouth in shock while zoomed in on Ellis' normal face. If his eyes were black or his expression particularly thunderous I could have bought the shock, but she was there and saw what happened. Nothing about the zoom and enhance (lel) added new information unless I missed something obvious.

 

I kind of wished that the therapist had pointed out that Lucifer's decision to punish evildoers "at his own discretion" on earth is just another version of towing the party line, but I guess he isn't ready for that epiphany yet.

 

I really like Chloe's interactions with her daughter, but they feel sort of alien to me. Do most parents interact with their children with such positivity, patience, and cheerfulness? My parents talked to me like I was an adult for as long as I can remember. So is this tv land parenting or are actual people like Chloe?

[Senna]

I thought the reason she was replaying the video at the end was that Lucifer clearly didn't push Agent Joe (or whatever his name was) enough (at all?) to cause him to shatter a glass pane like that, and she was trying to figure out how Lucifer did it.  I didn't see any reason for "enhance and SHOCK!* either though.

 

(I only half watch this show at the best of times though, so I could be off-base.  Tom Ellis is entertaining, but the character is not nearly devilish enough, and I reeeeaaally don't care for Chloe at all.)

[AshleyLyn]

Okay. Found the imposter side story more interesting although I did like one line with the main storyline.

He was just so offended about it. And the imposter...*snort*

However Maize..I think she wants Lucifer to be really extreme. Which I don't blame her in a way. He was a big bad in Hell and not being the big bad here. She probably wants the Apocalypse and I think this bit here will lead to her stabbing Lucifer in the back.

In a way I'm liking Maize.

Lucifer's line after the car bomb.

"See? Warmer." (Or something to that effect)

Figured the agent the moment they start talking to him. Plus its a "Hey it's that guy!" Curse.

Tired of Chloe not believing. BELIEVE.

Not feeling Chloe's ex and Chloe is still sort of eh.

I think Lucifer enjoys doing these cases because its something different for him and he's not bored. He got tired of being the jailer in Hell and he came to Earth to do something different. These cases and Chloe come along and he's got something else to do.

His anger with the agent...shoving him through the glass..I think after spending so much time with the sinners, spending time with the people who are alive is what's changing him. He's seeing humanity before they get sent to hell.

At least that's my view.

[BW Manilowe]

I was interested to see Richard T. Jones on the show tonight. He also plays/played the Governor of Hawaii on Hawaii Five-0. His recurring character hired Lauren German's character on that show, Lori Weston, to "babysit" the team & try to reign in more of their unorthodox methods, then he fired the same character later in the same season (S2, 2011-2012) because she basically ended up not fulfilling any of the objectives of her position the way the Governor imagined them.

[GaT]

Chloe is ruining this show for me, I really don't like her, & what are they doing to her makeup? She looks like she has the world's worst under eye shadows, they make her look like a skull.

Edited February 9, 2016 by GaT

[NorthstarATL]

Chloe is ruining this show for me, I really don't like her, & what are they doing to her makeup? She looks like she's has the world's worst under eye shadows, they make her look like a skull.

Maybe that's HER CGI? Seriously, she referred to Lucifer as being "hell bent" on something during one of their excursions, and he didn't even bite?

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I really loved the opening scene where he was all about the jumper jumping.  Finally, we were gonna get to see him dabble in his darkest arts.  Then, of course, it was fool me.  OK.  Ha ha.  Got me.  Then we got the scene where he was gonna eviscerate the imposter.  Maise was totally getting into it, as was I.  He was believable, too.  A nice bonus.  Then, Ha!  You didn't fool me!  He wimped out.  Blecch.  This show will not work unless LM is a true evil, at least on occasion.

 

The penultimate scene?  Back to random super power usage.  Blecch.  Why this time and not other times?  Why didn't he throw the record producer through a studio window in the first ep?  

 

I was angered when Chloe cut him off when he was trying to tell her about the agent's phone call that he found on the victim's phone.  One of the oldest TV tropes evah - pissed off partner refuses to hear.one.single.solitary.word.  Ugh.  Absurd.  Totally unnecessary.

 

The deal at the end is unclear.  The only thing I thought I could see was a beard - the classic beard depicted on so much devil art.  The tip (bottom) was not as low (long), though.  The eyes were not red.  That is for certain.

[Big Bad Wolf]

They need to fix Chloe being so irritating. Fast.

 

I thought she was fascinated with the video of Lucifer at the end because he launched a 200 lb man 10 feet through a plate glass window with seemingly no effort. I wouldn't have thought it would take more than that to pique her interest.

[wayne67]

I was angered when Chloe cut him off when he was trying to tell her about the agent's phone call that he found on the victim's phone.  One of the oldest TV tropes evah - pissed off partner refuses to hear.one.single.solitary.word.  Ugh.  Absurd.  Totally unnecessary.

 

Yeah I wasn't really happy with her cutting him off repeatedly though it makes it more obvious why noone wants to partner with her. She's not very perceptive. Hey this guy keeps telling me he's the devil and he got shot 6 times I wonder how he survived... *yawn*

 

Tiresome. 

 

I like the Devil but he's already become too soft too fast and it's kind of sapping the fun out of the show. It doesn't really leave him with much room to grow when in episode one he's driving one dude insane and by episode 3 he basically gives his imposter a free pass for impugning his rep with the ladies.

 

Oh well. The really funny thing is I still find the child actor completely tolerable. She's probably second after Tom Ellis as far as enjoyable characters.

 

I'm not really sure what's up with Maize. I'm kind of hoping she tries to take Lucifer's place in hell because she seems wasted being his frustrated sidekick.

[greekmom]

Also, as dark as it would have been, I actually wanted Lucifer to go through with harming his imposter, because I do think he needs to keep some kind of edge this early on.  I get that he will probably end up getting softer as the show progresses and his bond with Chloe is stronger, but he is already feeling less like the Devil and more like a typical snarky anti-hero.  I was totally with Maz over that turn of events.

 

The stuff with Dr. Linda was fun at least.

 

Hope this was just typical filler, and things will pick up soon.

Agreed. It's too early for Lucifer to have a change of heart so to speak.  He should have tortured his imposter.  Or at least have his imposter torture himself for doing the unthinkable in trying to be Lucifer Morningstar.  

Gald there was no other angels except for Maz.  I would like to see an angel come visit Lucifer from the other side (i.e. Michael, Gabriel or Raphael).

[AshleyLyn]

Awwww man I would love a visit from Michael. Seeing how hostile he is to Amandiel (sp?) imagine the hostility with Michael?

Edited February 9, 2016 by AshleyLyn

[TobinAlbers]

I kind of wished that the therapist had pointed out that Lucifer's decision to punish evildoers "at his own discretion" on earth is just another version of towing the party line, but I guess he isn't ready for that epiphany yet.

 

 

Ellis does good epiphany. His face simply lit up when he realized 'I've got the mad sads because I'm a punisher of the guilty, not the innocent!' And off he went.

 

With all the sex they're having, I hope Dr. Therapist is using birth control. Otherwise we may get a sub-arc of Daddy Lucifer and the potential anti-Christ.

 

His anger with the agent...shoving him through the glass..I think after spending so much time with the sinners, spending time with the people who are alive is what's changing him. He's seeing humanity before they get sent to hell.

At least that's my view.

 

Yep, his seeing what leads up to his guilty sinners dropping in on his kingdom is interesting. I did like that his interactions with Ty weren't all bad but definitely not good either. He pushed Ty to committing carnal sins, but then assisted in clearing his name although that was less about saving him and finding the guilty party and then at the end he reminds Ty that he does indeed owe him one and that could be either a very benign request ( I need tickets to the Super Bowl!) or very, very bad for him.

 

This was definitely a lightweight episode in terms of story but Ellis keeps it rolling. And as vain as Lucifer is,  I can totally see him waking up to draw in his pretty eyes for the full effect.

[cynic]

Chloe is ruining this show for me, I really don't like her, & what are they doing to her makeup? She looks like she has the world's worst under eye shadows, they make her look like a skull.

It's like they were going for a slightly harried, no-nonsense cop look, but landed on exhausted (and possibly ill) instead. These are the same people who did Life, right? They had Sarah Shahi doing the same type of thing, but she's so naturally stunning that they really couldn't mess her up.

And on a super petty note, what is going on with her eyebrows? I was trying to figure out if they're naturally that long and upturning or if they're made up like that. They're odd.

I agree with those that think Lucifer is too soft too quickly. Maybe they thought that the audience wouldn't be comfortable with a show about the devil unless it was super clear that he would be redeemable, but they're getting rid of the part that makes him interesting. Now, he just seems like every other snarky crime fighter.

Lastly, what is with the cops letting him grandstand like that and then throw that guy through a glass wall. He's just a consultant. I know all the shows with a fish out of water partner do the same thing, but it seems particularly bad here, especially since its only the third episode and all the cops in the background probably don't know him from Adam. And I had pretty much tuned out by then, so cab anyone tell me if the agent did something threatening enough to justify that use of force or are they just handwaving Lucifer's assault?

Edited February 9, 2016 by cynic

[blixie]

This was definitely a step back in terms of overall quality, no Trixie/Lucifer scenes though she was still amusing in how excited she was to talk about him, and way to much evidence they are doubling down on Devil Detective with a Heart of Gold. NO Fox more chaotic neutral amorality please. I don't mind Chloe, I just don't like her as a straight forward detective, she needs to be more fully folded into his supernatural world. I also need PoV from Maize. At the very least Lucifer should have made that imposter sweat a little more.

 

Yet and still, every line reading from Tom Ellis amuses the shit out of me, and I'd be here for that alone.

[storyskip]

I may be the lone voice of dissent but I find myself getting into the groove with this show and this episode went by very quickly, which for me means an engrossing story.

 

This is NOT to suggest it doesn't have it's flaws, as have been pointed out but I don't mind suspending my disbelief to enjoy the parts I do like. :)

 

I did miss Amenadiel this week and I agree, Trixie and Lucifer interactions are always gold.  I actually enjoyed Lucifer and Dr. Linda this week, with them exchanging gibes as he went out the door, it really did feel like a proper FwB relationship, verse her just drooling ridiculously on him.

 

I also enjoyed Lucifer realizing about displaced anger regarding his impostor vs Alisa's murder.  Considering the source material, I wonder if that's going to play into Lucifer's issues with his father.

 

While the show is deviating from the source material (because let's face it, the actual source material could only be produced on Netflix or ShoTime) it may be important to remember that Gaiman's Lucifer was never meant to be a "DARK EVIL CHARACTER".  If anything, like someone mentioned last post, he's chaotic neutral. In a nutshell (again the source material is a lot more complex in terms of themes) he was a huge supporter of Free Will but wanted it for angels, since humans were getting it.  His "father" needed him to fill a "role in the play" and so Lucifer ended up in Hell.   Going back to the pilot and his question to Amenadiel "Am I inherently evil or is dad forcing me to fill a role in his play".

 

But I will say the show is so back and forth, between the bad stuff that makes it cringe worthy and the subtle nuances that just get lost in the groaning of "oh Lucifer is having another orgy, yay."

 

As for what Chloe was looking at in the video, as mentioned in two different posts up above:

1) Lucifer (Tom Ellis) is a very slender man, maybe 170lbs-180lbs max.

2) He threw ... didn't shove, didn't grab, didn't do more than press his fingers to the agent's shoulder and THREW a 200+lbs man, 10+ feet, through a glass wall and he never moved while doing it.

 

A normal human, should have had to grab that agent's lapels and at least throw his weight into shove him but Lucifer just stood there and never moved beyond the flick of his fingers.  So she's watching him do that, over and over trying to figure out how the heck he managed it.  He shouldn't be that strong.

 

Anyway, I'm enjoying the show and except for Chloe, I'm enjoying all the characters together and don't mind escaping my day for an hour with them.  Do I wish this show was on something like Netflix or Shotime with a set run of 10-13 episodes?  Oh yeah!  But it's not, (and Fox makes me cringe on general principle) so I'm going to enjoy it while it lasts.

[Zipper]

I think the make-up department had an off week.  Too heavy on the eye liner for Lucy.  Too much brow definition for Chloe.  Neither of those admittedly superficial points struck me before last night, but that first scene with Lucy in the heavy kohl was a little weird.  

 

Not quite as interesting on the grand arc of the Devil's vacation, but the exchange for me was the individual introspection and Ellis's selling of his realization.  I'm in the camp where I would love to see more of the history/consequences of his decision to leave Hell, but I'll be patient because I find Ellis so watchable. 

 

On the 5 years in LA point, I would hope to see an episode this season that harkens back to his first days; perhaps someone punished returns so we can see the difference between then and now... this recent change we are told of but not shown because we met this Old Scratch when he met Chloe.

 

After pausing the TV to see what Chloe was reacting to in the last scene, I noted the camera angle would not permit her to see how force was exerted (from behind the agent).  What struck me is something that looks like black smoke around her head-- if I'm right that she was in frame to the left and in the knee-length camel coat.  Maybe that's me hoping for a bit more intrigue for her character, or more of the supernatural.  But something about that person in frame looks weird.  Anyone else see that, or is it my bad eyesight and worse TV?

[AshleyLyn]

I may be the lone voice of dissent but I find myself getting into the groove with this show and this episode went by very quickly, which for me means an engrossing story.

 

 

You're not the lone voice of dissent. At first I was hell on resisting liking this show, but I am liking it.. I'm just not into all the aspects yet. It still feels like it's trying to figure out what it wants to do, and this episode felt a little off in the storytelling (I wouldn't be surprised if it was aired out of order...).  The procedural aspect is not appealing, we got too many of those, it's the supernatural/angel part of the show that's appealing, that part for me is engrossing. So I would say you aren't alone entirely. 

[Primetimer]

Lucifer is the victim of identity theft in this episode, because this show really wants you to know that he's having an identity crisis and they're not sure 'the devil left his job and is now playing piano in a bar' adequately captures the idea.

Read the story

[mspaul]

 

Yet and still, every line reading from Tom Ellis amuses the shit out of me, and I'd be here for that alone.

 

I'm with you.  And I know I'm in the shallow end, but this show could literally be Ellis reading the screenplays of the lesser Adam Sandler movies out loud, and I'd still tune in every week.

[Bruinsfan]

I too was really let down by Lucifer letting his moronic identity thief off so easily. The show would have benefited by taking a page from the printed version's book; the most recent Lucifer comic had a shocking panel transition that revealed Gabriel had been flayed alive as part of an interrogation. I did like him befriending the virginal football player and tempting him, though, that felt in character.

 

I wish they'd tone down Ellis' eyeliner. I've never seen him in anything else so I looked up some of his photos--he definitely doesn't have distichiasis, and it's weird to imagine Lucifer rolling out of bed, showering, and then carefully applying eyeliner and mascara before selecting a bespoke suit. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course--I just feel like Lucifer wouldn't care about makeup, especially given his line about being perfection already.

 

I didn't really get Chloe gripping her mouth in shock while zoomed in on Ellis' normal face. If his eyes were black or his expression particularly thunderous I could have bought the shock, but she was there and saw what happened. Nothing about the zoom and enhance (lel) added new information unless I missed something obvious.

Agreed on both these points. Lucifer isn't playing in the Superbowl or auditioning for KISS, the makeup people need to put down the eyeliner. And Chloe was right there to see the obvious display of casual superhuman strength, having that be what causes her to gasp in horror at the replay makes it seem like she rides the short bus to the police station every morning.

 

Awwww man I would love a visit from Michael. Seeing how hostile he is to Amandiel (sp?) imagine the hostility with Michael?

In the source material Lucifer is affectionately sarcastic with Michael but actually seems to respect him a lot more than the rest of the angels.

[AshleyLyn]

Ah..well I'm not familiar with the source material, more familiar with the Sunday School stuff I guess. But I know the show is going off a different material, like you mentioned. I suppose I should look it up, but I'm not a big fan of comics. 

 

I'm wondering if Father is getting a good laugh out of Lucifer's situation. I mean, Lucifer hated humans in the beginning, now he's trying to help them. *snort* I really think what's changing them is that he gets to see them past the sinner .Yes he does the temptation, because that's just him. 

 

I'm getting the feeling too the writers are being a little careful right now because they probably have so many people breathing down their neck. This show, like others have said, would have done better with some more free reign on Lucifer himself, if it was on Showtime, HBO, or Netflix.

[storyskip]

Yep, in the source material it's pretty obvious that while Lucifer doesn't pass up an opportunity to needle Michael, he has a great deal of affection and respect for Michael.  His brother is one of the few beings who Lucifer seems to love, unconditionally.  This is part of why Lucifer takes to watching over Elaine Belloc, since she is Michael's daughter.

 

Again, this is all digging into source material and may or may not end up having anything to do with the tv show.

 

Also side note, in the source material, all angels except Michael are sterile.  So Luci could easily be shooting blanks.

 

And one thing I forgot to mention in my first post.  I did like one part of Chloe this episode, which wants to give me hope for the character.  When Lucifer had tossed the guy through the window and went to advance on him, her reaction to his absolute fury.  It's interesting to see her respond to him when he drops the charm and genuinely gets angry, like those are the moments when I see an interesting dynamic between the actors/characters.

 

So I'm a little worried that next week is going to be the trope of 'Luci looses his powers, just as Chloe starts to believe in them, so Chloe won't believe him and we go back to 'will she/won't she' dance.   This is something I actually liked about the first season of Sleepy Hollow, is they didn't draw out Abbie coming to accept what Crane was saying, they developed it and then pushed on with the story telling, instead of hanging false tension in the dynamic.

Edited February 9, 2016 by storyskip

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I thought the reason she was replaying the video at the end was that Lucifer clearly didn't push Agent Joe (or whatever his name was) enough (at all?) to cause him to shatter a glass pane like that, and she was trying to figure out how Lucifer did it.

 

 

Exactly. She wasn't looking at how he looked doing it, she was looking at how he did it.

 

It looked like he didn't exert an effort to push the agent to the extent he did. That is what she's trying to puzzle out.

 

I suppose the guy won't press any charges but the fact that Lucifer did that in front of witnesses should have an impact. 

[Happy Harpy]

I agree that it was more filler, and I found it less funny than the first two, but I still liked it.

 

I understand Chloe's closed off attitude. A woman and considered a snitch by her whole department, she certainly got the habit to steel herself before the blows come; for once her backstory imo gives a good explanation for her behavior. Moreover, I love Lucifer and he's wonderfully entertaining to me, but it's because I'm a viewer. Prince of Darkness or not, come pester me like he does with her when I'm working (or cooking) and fear my wrath. Seriously.

I still love her interactions with Trixie who  might be the best child I've ever seen on TV, and the little actress is so awfully cute. But yes, I did miss Lucifer/Trixie scenes. I have a hunch that during the Trixie in danger episode (the sooner it happens, the better) Lucifer might get as violent and scary as the Devil can be.

 

I find it interesting that the writers go with (gratuitous/vanilla) post-threesome scenes but restrained Lucifer's violence, in this one at least.

 

Count me in for those who want Chloe to accept the truth and the show to get to second gear.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Happy Harpy

[gwhh]

I guess Lucifer does NOT like glass doors.  Because that the 2nd time he thrown someone through a glad door! 

[Ria]

This show would be better without Chloe. She serves no real purpose, doesn't drive the plot, doesn't bring out the most interesting aspects of any character. Heck, she's not even a good detective. If she left, we would have essentially the same show without its main irritant.

[Mabinogia]

I, too, was annoyed that the show didn't "go there" with the imposter. Really, if they wanted to keep Lucy from getting his hands too dirty lest we simpletons not love him anymore, they could have just had him walk away telling Maiz to "deal with him", then we follow Lucy and what Maiz does is left completely to our twisted imaginations. But at least it doesn't make Lucy soft. He is punishing the imposture while allowing his little pet Maiz a chance to do what she loves.

 

I love the idea that it is seeing humans before they reach hell is what is changing him. Please, anything other than the love of a bland woman.

 

Not much has changed for me yet. I love Lucifer, Dr. Linda, Trixie, the whole angel side of things, even the identity crisis. I hate the procedural aspect of the show and Chloe. And I agree about her makeup, though to me she looks strung out most of the time. I pretty much hate everything about her characterization (the bitchiness towards the ex, the boobie scene background that I think is supposed to make her edgy, the not listening to Lucifer, the constant asking him "what are you" hey, dipshit, he told you, and yes, I get it, you don't believe him, but asking him repeatedly isn't going to change his answer, even if it wasn't true. Every single time you ask he is going to say he is the Devil. MOVE ON!!!!! (sorry, that just bugs sooo fucking much). The only redeaming thing about her so far is that without her we wouldn't have Trixie and that kid is seriously adorable! Maybe Chloe can die in a shoot out and Lucy can adopt Trixie and they can do family therapy (sans the sex part) with Dr. Linda.

 

But as long as Lucifer is still hot as hell I will very likely tune in every week and yell at the screen every time Chloe asks who Lucy really is and actually expects to get a different answer than the one she got the other 500 times she asked.

[Gigi43]

I was relieved they didn't mention Hottub High. When Chloe mentioned she knows how actresses get pimped out or whatever, I was expecting a comment from Luci, and I was so pleased it didn't happen. Hopefully it's the start of a break from it.

[Rosiejuliemom]

I'm really liking this series so far. It has enough merits for me to shut off my brain and enjoy the ride.

 

FOX really needs to stop tempting me back into television with gorgeous British men. First Sleepy Hollow and now this! It'll stop working...eventually...maybe. 

Edited February 10, 2016 by Rosiejuliemom

[lorbeer]

I like the show so far, I liked "Rush" more though - I started to watch the showe for Tom Ellis.

 

I think Lucifer's changing too quickly, I would like to see more of his supernatural powers - everything we saw was him being very persuading and now we also know he's super strong. And immortal of course. But as we can see in the next promo

he may not be immortal annymore

.

 

And I don't know how I feel about Chloe. She's quite transparent. I don't like the impact she's got on Lucifer because that implies she's very special somehow and she doesn't seem special at all - except of course being immune to Lucifer. Maybe she's immune because she's so much 'not believer'?

[Bruinsfan]

Regarding the issue of his supernatural powers, I guess everything has been scaled down for a TV special effects budget. But I really don't see how a little bit of invulnerability/super strength and being able to cajole a person into revealing their repressed urges would allow Lucifer to maintain control of who knows how many demons in Hell and oversee the punishment of billions of sinners. In the comics while there were certain angles of attack he was vulnerable to, he seemed to be able to do just about anything he wanted except suborn other people's wills, and that may have been more because of his own attitude toward free will than a true gap in his abilities.

 

On just a basic physical level, the pilot had him being knocked back by gunfire and wincing as if bullets hurt him. In the source material, you could drop an H bomb on Los Angeles and Lucifer would be standing unharmed at the bottom of the crater brushing ash off his lapels.

[storyskip]

Speaking to the topic of his powers (and let's face it a TV special effects budget) I have been speculating about something.

 

The following is PURE SPECULATION, NOT ACTUAL SPOILERS 

 

I wonder if they're going to go the route of Luci losing his powers for the remainder of the season?  That maybe they've given the audience (and Chloe) a taste of his abilities in these first 3 episodes, then plan to remove them and leave Luci to navigate his 'retirement' with just his wit.  Sort of "Okay, go back to Hell and get your powers back.  Stay on Earth and you're going to do so as a mortal human."

 

I'm thinking about the source material, book 2 when he goes to get his wings.  While not powerless in that realm, he is completely out powered by the individuals he has to negotiate with there there, so effectively powerless, and has to get his wings back through pure wit and cunning, which are regarded as two of his greatest powers.

 

It could be an interesting twist, rather than just 'he's lost his powers long enough for Chloe not to believe him' and would give an arc beyond the police procedural for the story to follow.

 

PS: Moderators, I apologize if speculation should not go in an episode thread but I didn't see a speculation topic for this show. 

[Hiddenpick]

Slick, quick quipped, erotic, despotic, Lucifer swaggers through this half-way decent episode in a cool stride. Well...maybe I'm pushing the despotic part a bit, at least for now. But maybe it's knowing that the ability to exercise diabolic behavior is just below the surface that the producers want us to file away, what with glimpses of certain abilities he has. My ruminating may...may have feet only because this incarnation of Lucifer is about him recognizing and punishing evil---not creating it. The substructure of the show may not be a 'pure' or 'true' supernatural entry so much as a glimpse of an odd, wavering relationship between a restless 'vacationing' Lucifer (exercising free will) and his atypical (and surprising) interest in the human condition and how and why he's affected by it. Lucifer and Chloe's shared sensibility is that they both have reached a point in their existence where they question right, wrong, good, evil.

 

Anyway, this week's episode didn't provide any movement in the relationship between Lucifer and Chloe. And by movement I don't mean romantic entanglement. I mean she has been asking the same questions about who he is and has had him investigated. She has seen evidence of his 'powers' and chooses not to believe her eyes or his word. It's not that I necessarily need to see growth, I guess I don't want to see stagnancy. Since the Pilot it's the same catch twenty two-ish game of trying to find out who this man is and what he's hiding. But she has been told who he is. Furthermore, he isn't hiding anything at all.

 

His relationship with Maze is a maze in itself. She's his 'assistant' as it were, but I wanna know more about their personal relationship. She is often disappointed in Lucifer's inaction and is a cheerleader for his former (apparent) badass self; but since we aren't privy to what those were, she comes off almost--almost as whiny and jealous. I suppose there will be time to put all the pieces together. I should be patient, right? 

 

The procedural plot was and has been draggy and uninteresting and almost amateurish. Again I suggest that there has to be more intrigue with these cases--more acuity to the plot and therefore more intense investigating to find and eventually punish the perp. Things are just too rote now. Ack, then again the problem may be mine and mine alone in that my expectations outweigh and outpace the stride the writers need to set.

The fact is despite my prickly criticism it's still fun to watch. For instance, Lucifer's one liners are witty and pun-ny and those scenes with his psychiatrist continue to serve two purposes. 

a) The internal 'voice' of who he's becoming

b) Funny, funny interludes--they are always in some state of dishevelment.

 

 

[Sonja]

His relationship with Maze is a maze in itself. She's his 'assistant' as it were, but I wanna know more about their personal relationship. She is often disappointed in Lucifer's inaction and is a cheerleader for his former (apparent) badass self; but since we aren't privy to what those were, she comes off almost--almost as whiny and jealous. I suppose there will be time to put all the pieces together. I should be patient, right?

I wonder how long it will take her to realise her cheerleading is actually what stops him. I was really disappointed she couldn't hold her tongue; he was this close to doing something not FOX-like to the identity thief and then Maze had to open her mouth. Again.

 

 

I too was really let down by Lucifer letting his moronic identity thief off so easily. The show would have benefited by taking a page from the printed version's book; the most recent Lucifer comic had a shocking panel transition that revealed Gabriel had been flayed alive as part of an interrogation. I did like him befriending the virginal football player and tempting him, though, that felt in character.

 

Same here. Him tempting the football player was fun, but the identity thief was disappointing. Nice that he put the agent through the glass later on at least.

 

Too much brow definition for Chloe.

Her brows were downright distracting in this ep.

 

Lastly, what is with the cops letting him grandstand like that and then throw that guy through a glass wall.

That was actually even less believable than everything else they've done so far. How are they justifiying it? That it was a freak accident because it's not physically possible he could have put him through the glass?

 

I really loved the opening scene where he was all about the jumper jumping.  Finally, we were gonna get to see him dabble in his darkest arts.  Then, of course, it was fool me.  OK.  Ha ha.  Got me. 

Same here. I was hoping the opening scene was a flash forward from the episode. And then I remembered this was a network show. Mäh.

[Hiddenpick]

I wonder how long it will take her to realise her cheerleading is actually what stops him. I was really disappointed she couldn't hold her tongue; he was this close to doing something not FOX-like to the identity thief and then Maze had to open her mouth. Again.

 

 

 

Good question Sonja. I suppose she is still dealing with her suspicion that he's changing; that in the past her encouragement would have prompted him to go forward with an act that lives up to his name. As it is now, when she eggs him on, he's probably reminded of his new outlook.

[FormerMod-a1]

I don't think it was the cheerleading, per se, that stopped him.  It was her particular "It's like watching you punish you" phrase that stopped him.  She could have reveled in it and said almost anything else, or just stopped after the "I love this/I'm getting turned on" part and it wouldn't have stopped him.

[Sonja]

I don't think it was the cheerleading, per se, that stopped him.  It was her particular "It's like watching you punish you" phrase that stopped him.  She could have reveled in it and said almost anything else, or just stopped after the "I love this/I'm getting turned on" part and it wouldn't have stopped him.

I would have agreed with you had it been the first time, but he stopped himslef after Maize cheered him on once before (I think it was in the pilot), so it seems to be a pattern. Or a 'we're a network show' plot device ;-)

[Gigi43]

Maze would be better off realizing encouraging actions like in episode 2 when they gave the two guys guns, is probably the best way to get glimpses of "her" Luci. Not actually hurting people, but facilitating people getting hurt by various means/other people.

[jhlipton]

What did Chloe see when she was running the tapes back at the end? She seemed confused, but Lucifer looked normal to me.

 

 

It looked vaguely (very vaguely) like he might maybe could have kinda sorta had wings.  If you squint hard.  And there looked to be black smoke around someone next to him.

I did like that his interactions with Ty weren't all bad but definitely not good either. He pushed Ty to committing carnal sins

 

 

The tempting was a bit too easy for me.  A man like Ty, when you dis his moms like that, is not going to just say "Ok, whatever."

 

the lesser Adam Sandler movies .

 

So, any of them?

 

 

I'm liking Ellis a lot more than I did at the start -- his charm is growing on me.  And I like Chloe, too.

[peachmangosteen]

I found this ep to be the worst so far, but I still enjoyed some of it.

 

I'm all alone at the table though in liking Chloe but not really giving a shit about Maize or the therapist, who's name I can't even remember.

[BooBear]

I found this ep to be the worst so far, but I still enjoyed some of it.

I'm all alone at the table though in liking Chloe but not really giving a shit about Maize or the therapist, who's name I can't even remember.

 

I think this episode is exhibit A in what this show needs to keep away from. Though of course, Tom Ellis made it lots better with his charisma, but, I don't really understand why Lucifer would give two figs about any of it.  I also don't care about Maize at this point but I suspect that she will have some great role in the future. The therapist I think is the device so the audience can see what is going on with Luci.  I can't say I love Chloe but I think she is serviceable enough and it is enough that it seems Luci really likes her and it looks like she might get let in on the secret which would then make her more important to Luci simply as a human who knows what is up.