S03.E08: Breaking Down Barriers

[okerry]

 . . . but physical affection is not just sex. It's hugging, a kiss on the cheek, holding hands, and Ashley is uncomfortable with all of that as well.

 

 

She is uncomfortable doing such things with DAVID because with guys like him, responding to a kiss on the cheek means he's going to have his tongue jammed down her throat in the next three seconds. Responding to hand-holding means he'll have his arm up her shirt or down her shorts in the next five seconds.

 

I hate to be so blunt, but this is what "nice guys" like David do because they have zero idea of how to please a woman or get her to respond. They are frustrated and often angry about their lack of success and honestly believe that there's something wrong with these women, so they have to move fast if they get the slightest chance. And then they get whiny, bitchy, and nasty if she doesn't like what he's doing, which she never does.

 

Doing something like deliberately texting another woman, and making sure Ashley knows about it, is exactly the sort of paybacks and punishment these guys will deal out. As I said, they blame the women 100% for their lack of sexual success, and they absolutely refuse to change their approach. So the vicious circle continues. 

 

Again: If you've never encountered this, you won't believe it - but I'm telling you, it's not uncommon. David's admitted failures in the dating arena, verified by his bros, and his complete failure with Ashley, all add up to this. And if she's a cold robot, it's because she's trying to shut him down and get him to Back Off and Stop Pushing - which he refuses to do.

 

It's okay if you don't believe me. If you've never encountered this, you probably won't.

 

Edited to add: I'm not accusing David of being a "rapist" or anything of the kind. I'm accusing him of being an idiot who honestly believes that any positive signal from a female means the light's green to go full speed ahead. If you ask them to slow down, or try to tell them what you would like, they sulk and whine - and then keep right on pushing because they're convinced it's the woman's problem, not theirs.

 

I don't know why men end up like this, except that maybe men are not educated in this culture on how to approach and please a woman. They grow up watching sex comedies and porn, and getting some very, very warped ideas on what women are really like and what women really want. I don't know. I only know it's a very real phenomenon and Dr. Sexologist should be the one addressing it, not me!

Edited January 22, 2016 by okerry

[ctbabe]

My perception on David is different. (perception is all we have due to editing and production, we are being led where they want us to be. they knew the outcome before they edited the show for our pleasure)

if you look at the wedding, he kissed her hand to take the pressure off. She wanted to sleep in the room alone on the honeymoon , he did. She wanted to stay in her apt the first night back, he said okay. etc etc

he is trying to get her to talk, open up a little. become friends. etc. I am sure that he would like more, but he has even said this isn't the time for that

She wants no part of him, the show, the cameras, the games, the tests etc. just the cash

As most people have said, she should never have been allowed to be a contestant

That's exactly how I see it too..

[BBDi]

I think of David as more likely being the type of guy who, if you give him any encouragement, thinks it means you are getting married.

Oh, wait.

[lavenderpenguin]

She is uncomfortable doing such things with DAVID because with guys like him, responding to a kiss on the cheek means he's going to have his tongue jammed down her throat in the next three seconds. Responding to hand-holding means he'll have his arm up her shirt or down her shorts in the next five seconds.

 

I hate to be so blunt, but this is what "nice guys" like David do because they have zero idea of how to please a woman or get her to respond. They are frustrated and often angry about their lack of success and honestly believe that there's something wrong with these women, so they have to move fast if they get the slightest chance. And then they get whiny, bitchy, and nasty if she doesn't like what he's doing, which she never does.

 

Doing something like deliberately texting another woman, and making sure Ashley knows about it, is exactly the sort of paybacks and punishment these guys will deal out. As I said, they blame the women 100% for their lack of sexual success, and they absolutely refuse to change their approach. So the vicious circle continues. 

 

Again: If you've never encountered this, you won't believe it - but I'm telling you, it's not uncommon. David's admitted failures in the dating arena, verified by his bros, and his complete failure with Ashley, all add up to this. And if she's a cold robot, it's because she's trying to shut him down and get him to Back Off and Stop Pushing - which he refuses to do.

 

It's okay if you don't believe me. If you've never encountered this, you probably won't.

 

I know the kind of man you are talking about, and I believe you that they exist. I just haven't seen any signs from David's behavior that he fits this particular pattern. He doesn't seem angry, 'bitchy' or mean towards her. At least I haven't seen anything that implies he's behaving that way. He has gotten frustrated with her, but frankly, it always seems reasonable -- we don't have all the facts, but even as a friend, I'd find Ashley pretty insufferable and wouldn't want to hang out with her. She seems incapable of any warmth and has zero conversation skills. Like when they were discussing one of the expert sessions and he was like, how did it go and she replied 'good' and said nothing else? Yeah, that kind of lack of enthusiasm would get on my nerves, too. I get that she doesn't like him, and so she's giving him the coldest shoulder ever, but it's a bit much and does make her look like she'd be a miserable person to hang out with -- even as friends.

 

And honestly? I don't think David's behavior matters that much in this situation, because I think Ashley wouldn't be attracted to him regardless of his behavior. She's just not into him. It's as simple as that -- you can't force romantic attraction and you can't force chemistry. Even removing the physical attraction component, it's clear that they are on two different wavelengths (this is so painfully obvious during the fishbowl scene, where he's joking around and Ashley is unable to even crack a smile or lighten the situation at all).

 

I also missed where his 'bros' verified his dating failures? I thought they were saying that he had more luck on a random bar night than he did with Ashley, which suggests to me that, at the very least, he's able to attract some women successfully (even if only for a kiss).

Edited January 22, 2016 by lavenderpenguin

[Jack Sampson]

Either David wants to learn from this and wants an actual chance with his wife, or he can keep on doing this with every woman he meets and keep on being the guy who's "bad at dating" but blaming the women for not responding. Even his guy friends were shaking their heads over him being the one kissing the women in the bars on the first night. Even they said that he was pushing for too much too fast and had no idea how to let a physical relationship with a female develop naturally.

That just shows that David has enough game to pick up girls at a bar. He's not some sad "nice guy" who begs for attention because he can't get laid, his friends were shocked that this one woman hasn't responded. They were wondering why he's wasting his time on a robot if real women are readily available and responsive.

David doesn't need to change his approach, he needs to realize that Ashley isn't worth the effort and find a woman who is. I'd bet David could find a new and better woman on any given weekend.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Jack Sampson

[ElectricCityy]

I think David is behaving for the show he signed up for. He has not pushed her for physical intimacy. He has taken baby steps with his new WIFE hoping she would warm up to him. On that honeymoon Ashley could barely be bothered to engage in small talk.. If she didn't even want to get know a stranger, she shouldn't have signed up to be married at first sight. 

 

There is nothing wrong with Ashley not being attracted to him or taking longer to open up but when you have 5 weeks to make a decision on your new spouse, put in some sort of effort. I have seen none from her.

[Snarklepuss]

She HAS tried a few small things - and I'm tellin' ya, David is one of those guys who goes from zero to 900 in a nanosecond and has NO speed in between. That's why she is so shut down. I've been around "nice" guys who were exactly like this. If you give them the slightest encouragement, they will instantly push and push and push and push for more and more and more - AND IF YOU DON'T RESPOND EVERY BIT AS FAST, they whine and complain and ignore you and blame you just like David is doing. Which is an even BIGGER turnoff and makes the whole situation WORSE. Just like we're seeing here.

 

If you've never encountered a guy like this, he's just going to look like a poor poor innocent nice guy who's being shot down by an Ice Queen for no apparent reason. Which is how many posters here are reacting to him. It's understandable, and I'm just glad you haven't had to date a man who does this!

 

I have encountered many men like this because I've been around for a long time and was once a guy magnet.  That said, this is what guys DO.  It's not something that a woman should not expect or tolerate from a man, but she should know how to handle it, especially if she's 30 years old and has had at least one long term relationship.  You have to be up front about your feelings and your comfort level with a guy, not shut down to him and leave him lost in space thinking he can just proceed with the plan.  Men often need to be told "no" or if they are interested in you they will think it's a subtle "yes" or even a "maybe", which is enough.  It may be subconscious but it's what they do.  Ashley has not been completely honest and open with David until this last episode when Dr. C basically had to pull the truth out of her about her continued non-attraction to him.  It was an obvious revelation to David.  Until then she's just been saying she needs time.  It's this kind of lack of communication that makes Ashley the one responsible for this situation - David strikes me as the kind of guy that would get the clue and back off if she had ever hit him upside the head with a 2x4.  Which is what men often need, there is nothing wrong with David for needing that.  Ashley is just not up to being honest and open about her feelings with a guy.  She says she doesn't want to "hurt his feelings" but usually that's a complete cop-out.  She is just not comfortable communicating her feelings to set the boundaries of the relationship.  And that's HER issue, not his.  I would have absolutely NO problem making it abundantly clear to David that he should either slow down, back the fuck off or just leave me alone altogether.  You can't fault the guy, having gotten married to her, to take steps to see if he can get her on board with being even a little physically intimate.  And I do have to wonder how much production is responsible for goading him on in that.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[Soup333]

It's okay if you don't believe me. If you've never encountered this, you probably won't.

 

I've encountered the guys you're speaking of, but I just don't think David fit into that generalization at the beginning. Ashley didn't want him AT FIRST SIGHT. He hadn't yet had the opportunity to be pushy, whiny or needy at their wedding or the reception. 

 

I can't get onboard with Ashley on this one. She should have never signed up for this show to begin with and why she did will probably always be a mystery. Since she felt nothing for David and knew within a fairly short amount of time that she would never feel anything for him, she should have been honest about it. Not rudely honest like Sam was, but she still should have told him before this past episode. It's cruel to leave him perpetually trying to see if they can make the marriage work when she's not even interested in being friends with him. 

[Booger666]

I'm a little concerned about some of the stereotypes and blanket statements here like 'women need to be courted' and 'give a man the slightest show of affection and he will push for sex'. To be clear, I'm not calling anyone or a particular post out. But in multiple posts I've gotten the feeling that archaic and inappropriate stereotypes are being projected onto some of the contestants. Please bring back the snark and insightful posts about what we've actually seen on a heavily edited and staged show that barely falls into the realm of reality.

[ctbabe]

I have encountered many men like this because I've been around for a long time and was once a guy magnet. That said, this is what guys DO. It's not something that a woman should not expect or tolerate from a man, but she should know how to handle it, especially if she's 30 years old and has had at least one long term relationship. You have to be up front about your feelings and your comfort level with a guy, not shut down to him and leave him lost in space thinking he can just proceed with the plan. Men often need to be told "no" or if they are interested in you they will think it's a subtle "yes" or even a "maybe", which is enough. It may be subconscious but it's what they do. Ashley has not been completely honest and open with David until this last episode when Dr. C basically had to pull the truth out of her about her continued non-attraction to him. It was an obvious revelation to David. Until then she's just been saying she needs time. It's this kind of lack of communication that makes Ashley the one responsible for this situation - David strikes me as the kind of guy that would get the clue if she had ever hit him upside the head with a 2x4. Which is what men need, there is nothing wrong with David for needing that. Ashley is just not up to being honest and open about her feelings. She says she doesn't want to "hurt his feelings" but usually that's a complete cop-out. She is just not comfortable communicating her feelings to set the boundaries of the relationship. And that's HER issue, not his. You can't fault the guy, having gotten married to her, to take steps to see if he can get her on board with being even a little physically intimate. And I do have to wonder how much production is responsible for goading him on in that.

If there were emcotion, I would have sent you kisses and hugs.. after reading and writing this, I would encourage everyone to read David's 1st and 2nd interview. Just read the knot interview. He said he would have loved to know abt the issue earlier so they could figure out a way of working on it.

[Snarklepuss]

I'm a little concerned about some of the stereotypes and blanket statements here like 'women need to be courted' and 'give a man the slightest show of affection and he will push for sex'. To be clear, I'm not calling anyone or a particular post out. But in multiple posts I've gotten the feeling that archaic and inappropriate stereotypes are being projected onto some of the contestants. Please bring back the snark and insightful posts about what we've actually seen on a heavily edited and staged show that barely falls into the realm of reality.

 

I for one wasn't speaking about stereotypes, but my very real experience with men in general when in a dating relationship.  If I got mad at every guy that acted that way with me I'd be a very bitter old woman by now.  I recognize that some things just go with the territory.  Men and women can tend to be different in certain ways - It's not bad or good, it just is.  For sure, not all men are one way but if my history has shown them to commonly act a certain way I don't think it can be called an inapporpriate stereotype.  And believe me, some of this experience is not "archaic", either but pretty darned recent.  For sure, uptight hipster dudes who are all cerebral in their heads and default to acting like wimps when mean nasty women like Sam are around might not act that way, but there are many men who will, and it's certainly not a negative thing on them to be that way, in my opinion.  YMMV.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[okerry]

I'm a little concerned about some of the stereotypes and blanket statements here like 'women need to be courted' and 'give a man the slightest show of affection and he will push for sex'. To be clear, I'm not calling anyone or a particular post out. But in multiple posts I've gotten the feeling that archaic and inappropriate stereotypes are being projected onto some of the contestants. Please bring back the snark and insightful posts about what we've actually seen on a heavily edited and staged show that barely falls into the realm of reality.

I don't think it's a "stereotype" to say that women need to be courted. For a long-term relationship, most of them do. That's nature, and it's not an "archaic stereotype" at all. 

 

And I was talking about David in particular when it came to pushy, clueless men.

 

I'd point out that one side of a show like MAFS, which is pretty much in the realm of TrashTV, is that it can provoke good discussions like this one - whether the show ever intended to or not!

[okerry]

And though he had his own suspicions, after that joint session with Cilona and Ashley, David knows for sure that Ashley will never be interested in him due to lack of chemistry. So now David is Hurt, with a capital H because he knows the Dream is dead. If subsequent episodes show him to be surly and sulky, while turning to tinder or match, I can understand his reactions. 

 

 

But that's exactly my point. To a guy like David, the light is either green or it's red. Either he can go all-out and try for all he can get, or he's been shot down in flames and it's over.

 

It would never occur to him that maybe the light is yellow. That maybe he could try a different approach. No, he'd rather go sulk by himself and text other women than try anything different.

 

And yes, he DID have a chance with her at first, even if a pudgy ginger wasn't what she was expecting. I still say David shot himself down with Ashley with his clumsy, pushy approach and refusal to try anything different, and that her coldness is due far more to his approach than to the chemistry.

 

Believe me, Ashley's best-looking guy in the world would get nowhere if he acted like David - but David would never believe that. He'd just blame her and "chemistry," and not look at his approach.

 

But that's okay. I'll wait for the tell-all article by Ashley once the show is over!

[ElectricCityy]

But that's exactly my point. To a guy like David, the light is either green or it's red. Either he can go all-out and try for all he can get, or he's been shot down in flames and it's over.

 

It would never occur to him that maybe the light is yellow. That maybe he could try a different approach. No, he'd rather go sulk by himself and text other women than try anything different.

 

And yes, he DID have a chance with her at first, even if a pudgy ginger wasn't what she was expecting. I still say David shot himself down with Ashley with his clumsy, pushy approach and refusal to try anything different, and that her coldness is due far more to his approach than to the chemistry.

 

Believe me, Ashley's best-looking guy in the world would get nowhere if he acted like David - but David would never believe that. He'd just blame her and "chemistry," and not look at his approach.

 

But that's okay. I'll wait for the tell-all article by Ashley once the show is over!

I guess I am not seeing where David behaved badly... How is David is to blame for Ashley being all wrong for this show?

[Evil Queen]

But it sounds like you were attracted to the man you're with now, and no offense but that sounds like a mind game.  I mean if you like someone, you like them.  Part of the issue is the double standard; if a woman is attracted to a guy and wants to sleep with him, she's seen as "loose" and "easy."  So she's forced to put the man through all these bullshit games because she doesn't want him to think she's cheap.  Too bad people don't get that life's too short for bullshit games.

 

100% AGREE!!! To me it sounds like not only playing games but wanting all the control when acting this way. Not saying the person that originally posted her experience was but that it comes off as such. I understand not giving it up right away but even the most kind and patient man can have their limits on things as well. If one isn't even getting to hold a hand or kiss on the check after so much time then why bother at all waiting months? Obviously Ashley doesn't like David at all. She needed to be honest in a way that wasn't Sam like about it but let him know from the get go. Yet she doesn't even try to be kind and friendly like. She could have stated from the get go let's be friends (even if its a lie) and made the most of things. IF she had done this maybe David wouldn't have been trying so hard all this time. Yet you have the stupid experts telling him to keep pushing too. That doesn't help and them not telling her one single thing doesn't either. I think most people would have made the most of this in a situation like this and tried to have fun so time might feel like it was passing quicker. I think we have all dealt with someone on a date we were not attracted to but you make the most of it. You don't just shut off and act rudely or run out of there the second you meet/see them.  

[lazylou]

Let's face it.  Samantha and Ashley just signed up for the $.  They should at least pretend to be participating.  On the other hand, viewers seem to be hooked on the bitchiness of these women, so maybe their non-participation is good for ratings.

[Soup333]

But that's exactly my point. To a guy like David, the light is either green or it's red. Either he can go all-out and try for all he can get, or he's been shot down in flames and it's over.

 

It would never occur to him that maybe the light is yellow. That maybe he could try a different approach. No, he'd rather go sulk by himself and text other women than try anything different.

 

And yes, he DID have a chance with her at first, even if a pudgy ginger wasn't what she was expecting. I still say David shot himself down with Ashley with his clumsy, pushy approach and refusal to try anything different, and that her coldness is due far more to his approach than to the chemistry.

 

Believe me, Ashley's best-looking guy in the world would get nowhere if he acted like David - but David would never believe that. He'd just blame her and "chemistry," and not look at his approach.

 

But that's okay. I'll wait for the tell-all article by Ashley once the show is over!

 

Maybe, maybe not. She said she put more focus on the physical, so it could be that her best-looking guy would have gotten her to let her guard down based on looks alone. I think Ashley checked out once she saw him and then that was the end of the story. But she'll never admit to that.

[Neurochick]

Women need to be courted.  Are we in the antebellum south and is Ashley Scarlet O'Hara?

 

I don't know why men end up like this, except that maybe men are not educated in this culture on how to approach and please a woman. They grow up watching sex comedies and porn, and getting some very, very warped ideas on what women are really like and what women really want. I don't know. I only know it's a very real phenomenon and Dr. Sexologist should be the one addressing it, not me!

 

I have a question about "courting."  Do you mean vetting?  I think it's important to vet another person, meaning making sure the person is who they present themselves as.  A man can court a woman and not be who he claims to be.  What makes me feel safe is someone being honest, no games, no bullshit.  

 

Courting in that sense is important, but in the case of David/Ashley, I don't think it would matter because, to me, Ashley's mind is made up.  On the other hand Tres could court Vanessa because she's already interested in him.  When Vanessa saw Tres, she was attracted, but when Ashley saw David, she was not.  

 

I understand that about the nice guy.  I think most of them are impatient in other areas of their lives as well.   A man who becomes angry when the train doesn't come on time, might become angry if a woman doesn't do what he wants when he wants it.  Those types of men are King Baby.  Is David like that?  I don't know, it's hard to tell because Ashley isn't attracted PERIOD.  If Ashley said something like, "I really like David but I wish he'd back off," then I'd agree with you; but Ashley won't give David a chance because he's not her physical type, which was what the expert told her.  

 

I also think both sexes have been influenced by romantic movies and porn, or in the case of women, erotica, as well.

[Neurochick]

Women need to be courted.  Are we in the antebellum south and is Ashley Scarlet O'Hara?

 

I don't know why men end up like this, except that maybe men are not educated in this culture on how to approach and please a woman. They grow up watching sex comedies and porn, and getting some very, very warped ideas on what women are really like and what women really want. I don't know. I only know it's a very real phenomenon and Dr. Sexologist should be the one addressing it, not me!

 

I have a question about "courting."  Do you mean vetting?  I think it's important to vet another person, meaning making sure the person is who they present themselves as.  A man can court a woman and not be who he claims to be.  What makes me feel safe is someone being honest, no games, no bullshit.  

 

Courting in that sense is important, but in the case of David/Ashley, I don't think it would matter because, to me, Ashley's mind is made up.  On the other hand Tres could court Vanessa because she's already interested in him.  When Vanessa saw Tres, she was attracted, but when Ashley saw David, she was not.  

 

I understand that about the nice guy.  I think most of them are impatient in other areas of their lives as well.   A man who becomes angry when the train doesn't come on time, might become angry if a woman doesn't do what he wants when he wants it.  Those types of men are King Baby.  Is David like that?  I don't know, it's hard to tell because Ashley isn't attracted PERIOD.  If Ashley said something like, "I really like David but I wish he'd back off," then I'd agree with you; but Ashley won't give David a chance because he's not her physical type, which was what the expert told her.  

 

I also think both sexes have been influenced by romantic movies and porn, or in the case of women, erotica, as well.

[rab01]

The fault lines in the discussion we're having keep reminding me of bits from that article I mentioned above particularly this bit about the couple (Jennifer and Xavier) that were so like Ashley and David  (I have to quote from it so as to avoid unconsciously plagiarizing her):

Virginie says frankly that her sense is that Jennifer just isn't attracted to Xavier; she asks if that's true. Jennifer stammers and dances around the question. Xavier interviews that he realized as they had this conversation that Jennifer wasn't "into this," and wasn't willing to give the experience much of a chance. He says that his patience "has some limits, and I think we've reached that limit." I have to say that I do take his side. Not because Jennifer won't make out with him, but because she's acted like she doesn't want to be there from the first minute they arrived. This is my big conflict, of course, because not wanting to be there is a sign of mental health if it's because the whole thing is so dumb, but the fact that she signed up in the first place sort of clouds the issue. I don't know whether to like the people who seem to have realized just how deeply creepy this is or the people who are willing to at least give it a chance and do what they said they were going to do.

The way Ashley acts can make total sense in the real world and still be annoying in the context of having agreed to an arranged marriage that will be filmed for TV.

[JapMo]

okerry wrote...

"She is uncomfortable doing such things with DAVID because with guys like him, responding to a kiss on the cheek means he's going to have his tongue jammed down her throat in the next three seconds. Responding to hand-holding means he'll have his arm up her shirt or down her shorts in the next five seconds. I hate to be so blunt, but this is what "nice guys" like David do because they have zero idea of how to please a woman or get her to respond. They are frustrated and often angry about their lack of success and honestly believe that there's something wrong with these women, so they have to move fast if they get the slightest chance. And then they get whiny, bitchy, and nasty if she doesn't like what he's doing, which she never does.."

 

 

We only have a perspective from what we've all seen on TV.  No one here has stated they know these individuals.  No one who was at the tapings have come forward with any insight.  You have a right to say whatever you want, but your comments about David are a generalization of men rather than about what you and the rest of us have seen from him so far.  I've tried to give Ashley a fair chance.  I DO think there's something going on with her that is causing her to be so shut down, but I don't think it's David.  That said, she has portrayed herself on TV to be very cold, uncommunicative, and unfriendly.  David has portrayed himself to be friendly, a nice guy, someone who truly wants to be married and is willing to work at it and compromise.  If he is not that, then we will all find out at some future point.  But I don't understand how you can make the leap from someone going in for a simple kiss on the Ferris Wheel to being labeled the guy who will in 3 seconds have his tongue jammed down her throat and hand up her blouse. 

Edited January 22, 2016 by Drogo
Quote formatting fix.

[Phoenix]

It's a shame David was matched with a woman with such a dead personality.  He could not have given more to the marriage...he tried it all and then some.  And then as Ashley has repeatedly pointed out, her prolonged cold & distant demeanor in terms of her affection tendencies has historically been prominent in ALL her previous relationships, which appear to be very few in number.  As she said, "I wait at least two months before becoming intimate with the man I am dating, because if he cares he won't be bothered by waiting for SUCH A SMALL THING".  She considers affection and romantic relations as a small factor in a relationship and it is not.  Otherwise it is just a friendship.    Why is this woman on the show?  For drama and conflict of course...as far as the show producers are concerned.  She must have done it for the money.

 

And Sam is absolutely crazy and repulsive, with emotionally abusive tendencies. 

[Palomar]

You can't fault the guy, having gotten married to her, to take steps to see if he can get her on board with being even a little physically intimate. And I do have to wonder how much production is responsible for goading him on in that.

 

That is the thing.....he has to do constant video's and he is being asked how things are going each time.  It is kind of hard to sound like he is not complaining.....he is just saying what is happening.  If that sounds like complaining, it is just the cold hard facts.  To be honest, I would wonder if the producers wouldn't challenge her contract.  Nothing about sex, she isn't even giving him common courtesy or trying to relate in any way. She could at least try to be friends with him to make the rest of the time go easier.  Not to mention she acts like every acknowledgement towards him is like bestowing some gift. 

[MsPH]

Finally caught up to this thread! Well almost. This show sure keeps us chatting despite being terribly boring at the moment. I have no idea why they thought it was necessary to drag this thing out over 13 (?) episodes. We see no progression whatsoever.

 

My opinion on the David and Ashley debacle is that neither of them are perfect, but David at least took this thing seriously and did everything he could think of (maybe not enough in some people's opinion, but I'm talking from his viewpoint here) to make it work, while Ashley took one look at him and thought "NO WAY am I spending the rest of my life with that". She came to find out that he's a nice considerate person, so she thought she could get through this thing with minimal effort, if she just kept him at arm's length. Well unfortunately David is still under the impression that they're working towards a romantic relationship, so he's trying to gently move things along in that direction. I don't think he's pushy at all when it comes to physical stuff. He backed off no questions asked on the honeymoon, when he realised just how uncomfortable she is with anything physical. Since then we've seen him do nothing except give her a hug, playfully throw her on the bed and try for a kiss on the ferris wheel, which I can't blame him for. We saw it would be a lost cause, but he thought it was his once in a lifetime opportunity to bring some romance into their union, since they were on a date and she seemed to be enjoying herself. I haven't seen him try again, so clearly he can take 'no' for an answer.

 

I can't get behind the notion that he never should've tried at all or that he should somehow read Ashley's mind and know when a 'no' might be a 'yes' and when nothing is a definite 'no'. Ashley has a mouth. She's perfectly capable of expressing her needs and setting boundaries. It's not David's or any guy's job to read her mind and interpret silent cues to know exactly what she needs at any given moment. I mean seriously now! Some people are more intuitive than others, and just because you're not at top end of the scale doesn't mean you're automatically some clueless idiot with no game. I know I've been a bit harsh on guys myself when their advances have been unwanted, but that says more about me than them really. It's not the guy's fault if I'm not interested as long as he can take no for an answer. I have enough empathy to realise that men are expected to make the first move and if they don't, they will never get anywhere. If Ashley wasn't married to David, she would've stopped returning his calls after the first date and that would've been that. However, that is not an option right now, so David doesn't really know if he still has a chance or not. He went into this experiment with an optimistic mind, so in his mind he must keep trying or else, knowing Ashley, nothing whatsoever will change in the next few weeks and they'll definitely end up divorcing. I'm sure it makes more sense to him to at least try, even if he gets shot down, since he has nothing to lose. Either they tread water for 3 more weeks and divorce, or David tries to challenge Ashley at times, even if it makes her uncomfortable, and maybe something, anything, will happen. He was obviously disappointed when Dr. C told him to stop trying, because he doesn't see Ashley initiating anything. To him it's as good as giving up altogether, since he's been around her long enough to know she makes the least amount of effort possible. Without his efforts they'll flatline in a day or two.

 

I still can't believe Ashley went on this show. No way was she honest with the experts when it comes to her usual timeline. They may be incompetent, but I doubt even they would've chosen someone who doesn't even proceed to hand-holding in the time you're supposed to come to a decision about staying married. Dr. C didn't look pleased with her when she said it takes her two months to get physical. She wasted all of their time. Though thinking a blind marriage is the time to start experimenting with relationships that are based on more than physical attraction is total craziness as well. Sounds like the experts were well aware that she usually finds looks very important. How they thought she'd grow out of that mindset in this setting I have no idea. Maybe in 5 more years she will, since her biological clock will be ticking loud by then, or maybe not. It's not something that can be forced however. What a disaster. She should be required to try harder though IMO. Stepping out of your comfort zone is uncomfortable by definition, but it won't break you into pieces. Treating Ashley like some fragile flower will get her nowhere in life.

 

No words for Sam anymore, except that she's a major d*ck. Neil deserves so much better! Yes, he should stand up for himself more, but I can see why he can't be bothered. It's not worth the drama and getting kicked out.

 

Vanessa was annoying me a bit this episode. I hope they're just playing things up for the cameras, because the show needs some ups and downs. Her silent treatment was obnoxious. Props to Tres for trying so hard though. I was happy to find out he's been in love before and serious about someone. Hopefully the party phase was indeed a result of the breakup, not the cause. 

[henrysmom]

So...anybody think any of these three couples will stay married after the "experiment" is over?

My guesses:

 

Vanessa and Tres: yes, might even make it to the reunion show

Sam and Neil: yes, but will flame out before the reunion show

Ashley and David: no way, never, not in a million years

[Meliss]

She is uncomfortable doing such things with DAVID because with guys like him, responding to a kiss on the cheek means he's going to have his tongue jammed down her throat in the next three seconds. Responding to hand-holding means he'll have his arm up her shirt or down her shorts in the next five seconds.

I hate to be so blunt, but this is what "nice guys" like David do because they have zero idea of how to please a woman or get her to respond. They are frustrated and often angry about their lack of success and honestly believe that there's something wrong with these women, so they have to move fast if they get the slightest chance. And then they get whiny, bitchy, and nasty if she doesn't like what he's doing, which she never does.

Doing something like deliberately texting another woman, and making sure Ashley knows about it, is exactly the sort of paybacks and punishment these guys will deal out. As I said, they blame the women 100% for their lack of sexual success, and they absolutely refuse to change their approach. So the vicious circle continues.

Again: If you've never encountered this, you won't believe it - but I'm telling you, it's not uncommon. David's admitted failures in the dating arena, verified by his bros, and his complete failure with Ashley, all add up to this. And if she's a cold robot, it's because she's trying to shut him down and get him to Back Off and Stop Pushing - which he refuses to do.

It's okay if you don't believe me. If you've never encountered this, you probably won't.

Edited to add: I'm not accusing David of being a "rapist" or anything of the kind. I'm accusing him of being an idiot who honestly believes that any positive signal from a female means the light's green to go full speed ahead. If you ask them to slow down, or try to tell them what you would like, they sulk and whine - and then keep right on pushing because they're convinced it's the woman's problem, not theirs.

I don't know why men end up like this, except that maybe men are not educated in this culture on how to approach and please a woman. They grow up watching sex comedies and porn, and getting some very, very warped ideas on what women are really like and what women really want. I don't know. I only know it's a very real phenomenon and Dr. Sexologist should be the one addressing it, not me!

[stuckin60s]

I just had a strange thought about Sam.  If what we see is the real Sam, can you imagine her being your manager at work?

[Meliss]

Okerry- exactly what I think & you explained it perfectly. I see David in this way as well. I was surprised that most people thought he was so great. There are so many red flags with him that everyone should be on the look-out for!

[JapMo]

 

My guesses:

 

Vanessa and Tres: yes, might even make it to the reunion show

Sam and Neil: yes, but will flame out before the reunion show

Ashley and David: no way, never, not in a million years

 

That's about the way I see it, too, henrysmom.  I also predict we'll see some total about face on the part of Sam when they are at the "reveal" and we will be asked to believe she suddenly realizes Neil is a great catch and she'll beg him to please give her another chance and....well it's Neil...of course he will.

[Kareem]

I just had a strange thought about Sam. If what we see is the real Sam, can you imagine her being your manager at work?

haha! I said that early on and was told that work is different from real life but I'm thinking I wouldn't want to sit down at her desk for advice! I'll bet she's like Jamie, where she can only contain the crazy for so long. Wonder if her "promotion" was actually a lateral move to a place that's sparsely populated and known to have no cable access. I think you could live a long time and never come across a girl like her very often...

[okerry]

That is the thing.....he has to do constant video's and he is being asked how things are going each time.  It is kind of hard to sound like he is not complaining.....he is just saying what is happening.  If that sounds like complaining, it is just the cold hard facts.  

 

 

David doesn't complain during the THs. There, he's the nicest, sweetest guy in the world who just can't understand why his wife hates him.

 

No, David complains to Ashley every time he makes a move and she doesn't respond with what he wants. Watch him after the kiss on the Ferris Wheel. Watch him when he tries to talk to her and she doesn't say enough. Virtually every time, he immediately complains to her that whatever she just did is not good enough, Even on the bed, when she finally started talking a little, he immediately talks right over her and sarcastically says, "Oh, NOW you want to talk?"

 

You don't have to take my word for it. Watch the episodes again, and you'll see it. 

 

Yes, we know he's frustrated. But David seems to think that if Ashley just understands how frustrated he is, she'll feel guilty and open up and give him whatever he wants. But I can only ask, "How's that workin' for ya, David?"

 

His approach is a tremendous bucket of cold water. You can't guilt a woman into giving you sex, or holding your hand, or anything else, but he's going to die trying with exactly that approach and nobody will ever convince him to try doing things any different.

 

Yes, I get that what Ashley does is not good enough. It's not. BUT - At least at first, David did want to draw this woman out and get closer to her. I'm just saying that his approach was absolutely abysmal and 100% guaranteed to shut her down. And I cannot for the life of me understand why patiently encouraging her small responses is too much to ask, because everybody here is saying that it is.

 

I mean, why not be nice on the Ferris wheel when she allowed him to put his arm around her and give her a small kiss? Why not listen to her when she finally does talk? Why is that too much to ask, when it's the best chance he's got of reaching this woman he just married?

 

That used to be called, "Being a gentleman." David might be a "nice guy," but he is not a gentleman. There's a difference. And that part of his behaviour IS under his control. He can't control what Ashley does, but he can control what he does.

 

By contrast, Sam is a total psycho beast but Neil has remained a gentleman. At least he'll have that much when this is over. David will not.

 

If David had approached Ashley like a gentleman, would she have started to open up to him? I don't know. But the answer would at least be, "Maybe," which I would think is better than what he's got now, which is, "Never."

 

Isn't it?

Okerry- exactly what I think & you explained it perfectly. I see David in this way as well. I was surprised that most people thought he was so great. There are so many red flags with him that everyone should be on the look-out for!

Okay, so that makes at least two of us, LOL! But I don't mind the debate. At least the show is good for provoking some very interesting discussion! Thanks.

[Snarklepuss]

David doesn't complain during the THs. There, he's the nicest, sweetest guy in the world who just can't understand why his wife hates him.

 

No, David complains to Ashley every time he makes a move and she doesn't respond with what he wants. Watch him after the kiss on the Ferris Wheel. Watch him when he tries to talk to her and she doesn't say enough. Virtually every time, he immediately complains to her that whatever she just did is not good enough, Even on the bed, when she finally started talking a little, he immediately talks right over her and sarcastically says, "Oh, NOW you want to talk?"

 

You don't have to take my word for it. Watch the episodes again, and you'll see it. 

 

Yes, we know he's frustrated. But David seems to think that if Ashley just understands how frustrated he is, she'll feel guilty and open up and give him whatever he wants. But I can only ask, "How's that workin' for ya, David?"

 

His approach is a tremendous bucket of cold water. You can't guilt a woman into giving you sex, or holding your hand, or anything else, but he's going to die trying with exactly that approach and nobody will ever convince him to try doing things any different.

 

Yes, I get that what Ashley does is not good enough. It's not. BUT - At least at first, David did want to draw this woman out and get closer to her. I'm just saying that his approach was absolutely abysmal and 100% guaranteed to shut her down. And I cannot for the life of me understand why patiently encouraging her small responses is too much to ask, because everybody here is saying that it is.

 

I mean, why not be nice on the Ferris wheel when she allowed him to put his arm around her and give her a small kiss? Why not listen to her when she finally does talk? Why is that too much to ask, when it's the best chance he's got of reaching this woman he just married?

 

That used to be called, "Being a gentleman." David might be a "nice guy," but he is not a gentleman. There's a difference. And that part of his behaviour IS under his control. He can't control what Ashley does, but he can control what he does.

 

I think David on some level at the point we're seeing his frustrated anger coming out is aware that he is fucked no matter what he does.  So he's probably pushing her to see if she will finally level with him at least.  He is sticking to the plan and seeing if he ever gets told to stop.  If she doesn't open up to him and tell him how she feels, he feels justified in continuing to bait her.  I agree that it's a bit spiteful, but again, under the circumstances he's confused and hurt because she's just letting him go on like this hiding behind the old "I don't want to hurt his feelings" garbage.  The truth is, she doesn't give one shit, and he knows it, so he's just getting back at her with that behavior. If she did care even one bit about how he felt she would have told him to back off long before 3 weeks had elapsed and Dr. C had to drag it out of her and spell it out for David.  If Ashley is so delicate and ashamed to open up to him, she has no business being married.  She would expect a guy to read her mind and blow hot and cold until he's ready to scream.  At this point I can only imagine that her behavior and lack of direct communication with David drove him to that kind of behavior, and seeing it in that context, I can give him a pass on that.

 

 

By contrast, Sam is a total psycho beast but Neil has remained a gentleman. At least he'll have that much when this is over. David will not.

 

If David had approached Ashley like a gentleman, would she have started to open up to him? I don't know. But the answer would at least be, "Maybe," which I would think is better than what he's got now, which is, "Never."

 

Isn't it?

 

Interesting - I think there's a difference between a gentleman and a wimp and Neil has crossed over into wimp territory with Sam a few times.  I can't imagine why he would be apologetic to her for making a sarcastic retort in response to her when she is being blatantly abusive and belittling of him.  He had it right the first time, don't ruin it.  That was one of the most cringe inducing things I've seen on this season so far.   I also think that as psycho as Sam is, she's right that Neil is not being "himself" on camera, which of course begs the question about just how much of what we see of him is a facade.

 

I don't think David could have gotten anywhere with Ashley by acting like Neil - He knows in his gut that he's fucked and he doesn't really like her all that much (and I can't say I blame him either).  If he had any reason to think that he might get somewhere with Ashley or that she was WORTH getting somewhere with, he would be acting a lot differently, IMO.

[seasick]

Well, i'm going to be stuck inside tomorrow with this winter storm coming up to the NE and the coast, so I'm game to keep all the discussions going.  Anyone else going to be stuck inside with me?  

 

Okerry (I won't quote for brevity)  but I did recall  during the honeymoon that Ashley said she wanted to spend the first night back at her house by herself to de-stress and David was not happy ...and went on to say well , it's fine but if it goes to 2,3,4 days...."   And then when he got home at his place he moped-- "I should be here with my wife..but here I am.. the remnants of my happy bachelor party still here...boo...hooo...   So I'm starting to see your point there.

Edited January 22, 2016 by seasick

[Jade Foxx]

 

"Being a gentleman." David might be a "nice guy," but he is not a gentleman.

 

I've watched every episode...and from what we have seen on camera, David is a gentleman, a nice guy, is patient, and should be sainted. His frustration is wholeheartedly understandable. It's not his fault he was paired with a humorless fembot.

[JapMo]

I think one of the reasons this season is so boring is because Ashley and Sam have made up their minds so quickly.  Neither of them are attracted to their husbands.  One is taking the path of a mute; the other a psycho.  The psycho is more entertaining, but just for shock value.  Both these women are probably now experiencing or will shortly find out what it feels like to be social pariahs.  I can't imagine what Sam's co-workers and customers at her bank must think of her.  Likewise, Ashley is going to know what it feels like to be labeled at first sight by people for a long long time.

[Palomar]

If David had approached Ashley like a gentleman, would she have started to open up to him? I don't know. But the answer would at least be, "Maybe," which I would think is better than what he's got now, which is, "Never."

 

I just haven't seen that much from David that was that un-gentlemanly. Frustration, yes. That one outburst which could have been taken out of context....what led up to that? Who knows. No one is perfect. He's tried giving her space and when that didn't work, reaching out in different ways.   Going in for a kiss on a ferris wheel after 3 weeks of dating?  If she had been receptive, everyone would have been saying how romantic that was but instead he is not a gentleman?  She decided the instant he didn't match her fantasy, that it was over.

[ctbabe]

David is in a lose-lose situation. If he withdraws after the bombshell, people would assume he was only there for intimacy. If he still tries, people would assume he is needy, pushy and desperate.

Imagine you start a job and you were told point blank that you are not up to their standard but they would like you to keep working hard for 3weeks then they would make a decision about you. Do you think you would keep working hard when you are almost sure, you would be fired? Or would start looking for another job?

Edited January 23, 2016 by ctbabe

[Adeejay]

I've watched every episode...and from what we have seen on camera, David is a gentleman, a nice guy, is patient, and should be sainted. His frustration is wholeheartedly understandable. It's not his fault he was paired with a humorless fembot.

 

What I wouldn't give to see Ashley paired with Ryan D. 

Edited January 23, 2016 by Adeejay

[Lola16]

Glad to see new members of previously.tv, whose first post on these forums is standing up for Ashley on S3E8 discussion.  Wonder what it was about that episode that brought out the support for Ashley. 

 

Welcome new posters.

I binge watched the show so I started posting recently.  Maybe what's bringing out the support is the relentless bashing of Ashley's looks while praising dough boy for his 'great' personality and character.  Blurgh.

 

Oh, I'm most certainly not a proponent of adultery, especially having been a victim of it; but since this show is an experiment with hopes of love lasting, it's a little different than an organic relationship/marriage. That being said, If I am recalling correctly, this takes place at the tail end of the season with maybe one week left. if that, and I'm sure by then David is 100% sure he has no shot with Ashley.

It's 6 weeks.  If David is such a nice guy, such a gentleman, so in love with Ashley, such husband material, he can hang in another week or 2 before flirting, secting, sucking face whatever it is he does with a rando.

 

 As most people have said, she should never have been allowed to be a contestant

Versus who?  David?   Because he's ready to have a pretty wife?  Neil?  Sam?   None of those people seem sincere.

[grumpypanda]

I just haven't seen that much from David that was that un-gentlemanly. Frustration, yes. That one outburst which could have been taken out of context....what led up to that? Who knows. No one is perfect. He's tried giving her space and when that didn't work, reaching out in different ways. Going in for a kiss on a ferris wheel after 3 weeks of dating? If she had been receptive, everyone would have been saying how romantic that was but instead he is not a gentleman? She decided the instant he didn't match her fantasy, that it was over.

I'm not seeing this brutish behavior either. In the beginning all he was trying to do was talk to her and form a friendship but Ashley wanted no part in getting to know David. She decided the moment she first saw him that he wasn't worth her time.

Besides morphing into a completely different human being there isn't anything David could do to change her mind. She has a very narrow definition of what she finds attractive and should have never been selected for this show.

Most people have a type but are still willing to go outside of their typical type if someone interesting comes along but Ashley seems very rigid about men and about a lot of things in her life.

I still don't think she's shy, I just think she's a snob. I'm pretty sure that her two month rule is some bullshit that she made up for the show. I doubt many attractive and successful men in their thirties are willing to wait two months for a possible kiss on the cheek or a quick hug good night.

Edited January 23, 2016 by grumpypanda

[Neurochick]

So David should be a gentleman, why?  What good would it do?  Look, many, many moons ago years ago there was a man who was interested in me, he was a gentleman, but guess what?  I wasn't into him.  There was nothing, zero, zip, nada that he could have done that would have changed my mind.  Why?  Because I'd made up my mind and I wasn't into him.  I think Ashley is the same way, it seems like nothing David can do will change her mind because she's just not into him, period, end of story.

[Lola16]

Maybe David and Neil should be gentlemen because.  Not just in spurts for the camera but because that's who they are and want to be.  I don't subscribe to the notion that because someone else is acting poorly that the other people should as well.

 

If I were in David's shoes, it'd be obvious that Ashley wasn't interested and most likely wouldn't be in the 6 weeks time frame.  So I'd give her her space, show up for the cameras and hang in to cash the check.

[ctbabe]

The way and intensity of which some posters write their comments led me to believe that they might have some inside info (not really calling anyone out, but I am just curious). Please share because I feel like I missed an episode.

[sleekandchic]

The way and intensity of which some posters write their comments led me to believe that they might have some inside info (not really calling anyone out, but I am just curious). Please share because I feel like I missed an episode.

I'm thinking more along the lines that some people have been hurt by boorish, clumsy, clueless idiots and, therefore, think ALL guys are basically the same. I prefer to take people as they are, one by one. I refuse to pretend to know how a certain "type" of person might think, feel, react or be. That's prejudice.

Courtship is an anachronistic idea to me. I feel sad and worried for people who seem to fall for the "romanticism" of courtship. There's a true crime series called "Who the Bleep Did I Marry?" on ID Discovery. It's a cautionary tale like none other, and it's PACKED with guys who have the "courtship" crap down pat and the women who fall for it, much to their detriment.

I feel awkward defending David again because I don't know him. All I can go by is what I've seen of him on the screen. He seems like he's trying to participate in a show he contracted to join. I just don't see the calculating, handsy, sex-crazed, bumbling ass that others seem to be seeing. And though we all tend to judge people and circumstances based on our own life-experiences, I think it's enormously unfair to ascribe motives and characteristics to David (or anyone) based on what we ourselves have encountered in our personal lives.

If a woman has dated or encountered a guy who turned out be a clueless pervy pig, who misread every clue and misinterpreted every move, does that mean EVERY guy she encounters will be just as piggy? I know I can't live like that.

While I think the idea that women "need" to be courted is outdated, I do think that women AND men need to be treated with respect. Boundaries should always be respected; kindness and consideration are key. If you're romantically interested in a person, TALK UP and communicate. Do NOT expect another person to read your mind about what you like versus what you're not interested in. Oh, and be open to everybody, even if he (or she) isn't your preconceived type. I'm glad I was! :)

[ketose]

This whole David is a monster stuff is heavily based on facts not in evidence and gut feelings. If David is acting, he's acting like a human being. If Ashley is not acting, then she needs to go in the shop to have her operating system upgraded.

[Jack Sampson]

So David should be a gentleman, why? What good would it do?

David was a perfect gentleman for the wedding, honeymoon and several weeks of the marriage - through it all, Ashley has been a humorless bitch. The second he shows some frustration, she says SEE! I knew he wasn't REALLY a gentleman.

David is basically expected to be an utterly devoted eunuch who exists to meet Ashley's needs while having no needs of his own. If he doesn't keep that routine up forever, then he's just not sincere. The REAL David is the monster who wants to hold hands with his wife, complains that she won't answer basic questions and get's a little sad when his dream of starting a family gets crushed. What's next? Will he show how much of a monster he truly is by moving on? How DARE he.

I'm thinking more along the lines that some people have been hurt by boorish, clumsy, clueless idiots and, therefore, think ALL guys are basically the same. I prefer to take people as they are, one by one. I refuse to pretend to know how a certain "type" of person might think, feel, react or be. That's prejudice.

It does seem like some people bring too much personal baggage to the discussion. All we can really go on is what we see on screen and clues from social media. Neither support the idea that David is anything but a guy who's trying a little too hard to be liked by his wife.

At this point, he just needs to ghost the robot and find a woman.

[Snarklepuss]

Maybe David and Neil should be gentlemen because.  Not just in spurts for the camera but because that's who they are and want to be.  I don't subscribe to the notion that because someone else is acting poorly that the other people should as well.

 

If I were in David's shoes, it'd be obvious that Ashley wasn't interested and most likely wouldn't be in the 6 weeks time frame.  So I'd give her her space, show up for the cameras and hang in to cash the check.

 

I think it's easy to say that but in the situation one would feel much differently, especially because David is obviously very invested in the idea of being married.  And I can't fault him for that, he did sign up for a show that married him, after all, so one would expect him to be serious about marriage.  Because of that I think it would be only natural for him to be so let down by Ashley as to be angry and acting out a bit - But if what we have seen is his version of acting out, I'd say he's not doing that bad under the circumstances.  If he were only dating Ashley I'd say fine, he should just mentally and emotionally check out and wait for the whole thing to be over.  But he's NOT, he MARRIED her, so I would say his level of expectation and hopes for them working out plus his anger and sadness at her basically giving him the cold shoulder is understandable and are not out of proportion to the situation. 

 

I've said it before, I think he is being downright kind to her under the circumstances.  I think it's good that he has tried to confront her at times - I don't see that as a sign of abuse.  He has every right to question her and try to get her to level with him after weeks of her basically shutting him out.  He didn't sign up for a one-sided relationship but she has done a lot to turn it into one.  In fact, her lack of relating to him even as just a human being (not even a potential sexual partner) can be seen as abusive at this point.  She says she "doesn't want to hurt his feelings" but it's funny how she's done just about the worst thing someone can do to hurt someone's feelings and that's to basically leave them in an ambiguous state of frustration, not knowing what the other person really wants from them and feeling unable to figure it out, especially after he has tried to get it out of her.  If his behavior is so off-putting to her, why hasn't she told him that?  She cares so little about him that she just ignores him and hopes he will just go away so she won't have to actually be a decent human being to the guy.  He has just been trying to get a reaction out of her - any reaction to find out where he stands, but she just refuses to put the freaking guy out of his misery until Cilona basically forces her into it.  It's actually quite painful to watch.

[Lola16]

If David is so invested in being married, then he should act like he's married all the way through.  It seems like it's OK to some posters that he gave 110% for 3 weeks but since Ashley is giving 10% (in their eyes), it's OK for David to step out.  I never think it's OK to step out.  If you want out, get out.  In this case, it's a 6 week gig.  He's got an out coming up.

 

David was a perfect gentleman for the wedding, honeymoon and several weeks of the marriage - through it all, Ashley has been a humorless bitch. The second he shows some frustration, she says SEE! I knew he wasn't REALLY a gentleman.

David is basically expected to be an utterly devoted eunuch who exists to meet Ashley's needs while having no needs of his own. If he doesn't keep that routine up forever, then he's just not sincere. The REAL David is the monster who wants to hold hands with his wife, complains that she won't answer basic questions and get's a little sad when his dream of starting a family gets crushed. What's next? Will he show how much of a monster he truly is by moving on? How DARE he.

It does seem like some people bring too much personal baggage to the discussion. All we can really go on is what we see on screen and clues from social media. Neither support the idea that David is anything but a guy who's trying a little too hard to be liked by his wife.

At this point, he just needs to ghost the robot and find a woman.

Who is saying David needs to be an eunuch?  Suggesting that he read Ashley correctly (she ain't into him, probably never will be) and go willingly into friend-zone -- I guess that's cruel to David?  That's reality.  She ain't into him.  Ain't gonna be.  So he can keep trying for the cameras or he can face reality.

 

I'm not a fan of Ashley (or anyone on this show).  The nastiness and personal attacks against her (her looks, her withdrawn personality on camera), feels unwarranted.  Maybe the posters attacking her are the ones with baggage?  Nah, can't be.  Suggesting he ghost her - well that's mature.  But that's OK though, David can step out, ghost her etc because it's Ashley, a mustachioed 5 robot who deserves it because she doesn't return his feelings after 3 weeks of an arranged marriage for TV.  Umkay.

[Jack Sampson]

Who is saying David needs to be an eunuch? Suggesting that he read Ashley correctly (she ain't into him, probably never will be) and go willingly into friend-zone -- I guess that's cruel to David?

Suggesting he go willingly to the friendzone is exactly the same as saying he needs to be a eunuch. She would be fine with having him around if it wasn't for his pesky sex drive. If that didn't exist, the sham of a marriage would be going swell...assuming David pays her bills of course. That part she was fine with.

But that's OK though, David can step out, ghost her etc because it's Ashley, a mustachioed 5 robot who deserves it because she doesn't return his feelings after 3 weeks of an arranged marriage for TV.

Certainly doesn't sound like valid reasons to stay. She doesn't have to return his affections, she doesn't have to be civil, but those are perfectly valid reasons for dumping her and finding a real woman.

[Meliss]

What struck me is that she did seem friendly on her diary cam & smiled a lot & said she wanted to have fun. However, when she is with him, all of that goes away.

She has a very reserved personality that most people find boring. It's called being an introvert & it does not show well on TV. Plus she finds herself uncomfortable with her new husband & stressed with school. She is the type that recharges being alone & he is the type that needs to be around others to recharge.

Some of her uncomfortableness is superficial because he is not her type, but we have seen women get over this in past seasons. She made the effort to be open & kind with his mom & friends.

My guess is that every time she lets her guard down to joke around with him, he goes in for the kill. So, she resorts back to not joking around with him because she is not ready for that.

obviously she doesn't have romantic feelings for him, which isn't his fault--but the fact is, she doesn't enjoy being around him. If he only knew how to form a friendship & get to know someone (who they really are, not their favorite color), this would have had a chance.

I also do not think she should have gone on the show because she worked & went to school full-time. She had homework on her wedding day, finals when she got back & is apparently in school full-time for nursing during clinicals. No one would plan a wedding with that amount of stress!

Edited January 23, 2016 by Meliss