S03.E08: Breaking Down Barriers

[JapMo]

I think one of the biggest complaints I have of Ashley is she's not been honest on camera.   She's lying when she says she's so shy, that she needs extra time, that she feels so uncomfortable and doesn't know how to behave as a wife.  That's b.s.  She's not THAT shy...she's not THAT introverted.  I might be able to swallow this act if she was 15 years old and going out on her first date, but this is a 30 year old woman in the 21st century acting like Melanie Wilkes or Aunt Pittypat inhaling smelling salts and hiding behind a fan.  I don't think David has done ANYTHING to pressure her (from what we've been allowed to see), but even if that were true, she seems to have done a good job of maneuvering out of any potential sexual situations with him.  Some of you act like it was bordering on rape when he lobbed her on to the bed.  Poor delicate little flower Ashley....her sense of decorum was sooooo offended.  I'll eat my words if he turns out to be a major sleaze, but IMO she's been using all this "he's a stranger-I'm just not ready-that makes me uncomfortable" crud as an excuse to put in the least amount of time that she can. 

[ctbabe]

I think one of the biggest complaints I have of Ashley is she's not been honest on camera. She's lying when she says she's so shy, that she needs extra time, that she feels so uncomfortable and doesn't know how to behave as a wife. That's b.s. She's not THAT shy...she's not THAT introverted. I might be able to swallow this act if she was 15 years old and going out on her first date, but this is a 30 year old woman in the 21st century acting like Melanie Wilkes or Aunt Pittypat inhaling smelling salts and hiding behind a fan. I don't think David has done ANYTHING to pressure her (from what we've been allowed to see), but even if that were true, she seems to have done a good job of maneuvering out of any potential sexual situations with him. Some of you act like it was bordering on rape when he lobbed her on to the bed. Poor delicate little flower Ashley....her sense of decorum was sooooo offended. I'll eat my words if he turns out to be a major sleaze, but IMO she's been using all this "he's a stranger-I'm just not ready-that makes me uncomfortable" crud as an excuse to put in the least amount of time that she can.

Thank you so much for your comment. I started wondering if some people were given extra footage of David raping and sexually assaulting her. Please read all the knot interviews by both parties and somethings might become clearer.

[okerry]

Thank you so much for your comment. I started wondering if some people were given extra footage of David raping and sexually assaulting her. Please read all the knot interviews by both parties and somethings might become clearer.

Nobody said anything about "sexual assault." David's behaviour is a turnoff. That's all. That's what we've been discussing. That's not the same as "sexual assault."

[sleekandchic]

As the bedroom scene played out between Ashley and David -- the tackle thing -- I had no problem with how it went down. And it didn't look to me as though Ashley had a problem either. Dave had just returned from his trip, and Ashley seemed relaxed and happy to see him. She told him she tried to be domestic by cleaning the house and doing laundry. She sheepishly went to the closet, pulled out his blue dress shirt on a hanger and apologized that she had washed it with towels or sheets and now the shirt was fuzzy. The couple laughed and seemed the most at ease together yet.

I don't blame David for thinking Ashley was letting down her guard and being playful, and he probably felt freer to show her affection. After the tackle and the Belle-as-cockblock moment, Ashley DID lead the dog out and shut the bedroom door. She was smiling throughout too. Knowing that Ashley doesn't do anything she doesn't want to do, my opinion is if she had felt threatened by Dave in any way, she would have removed Belle AND herself instantly.

A camera crew was in the room in during the "throw down," too. IMO, there was nothing dangerous or outrageous about Dave trying to be affectionate. But Jmo.

Neil is holding it together by a thread. A lesser guy would have split during the wedding ceremony. I also believe he doesn't want to disappoint or disrespect his grandmother and mother by showing impatient or volatile behavior toward Sam. Of all nine families so far, I think Neil's was the most open and hopeful toward the prospect of an arranged marriage's success. His Grams' own experience was good once upon a time.

I have come to the conclusion that Sam has substance abuse issues. Someone upthread (so sorry can't remember your name!) noticed a hookah or bong being moved off a table by Sam and Sammie when Neil entered the room. I thought Sam's wedding-day behaviors also signaled something off chemically.

Yet she supposedly just got a promotion at her bank! I'm not of the opinion that someone can be two entirely personas, one for work, a different one at home. If you follow her tweets, she shows her erratic, passive-aggressive, volatile personality throughout.

Last thing I remembered. When Sam made her wedding announcement to her workout class, Sammie was right there. Do they work together too? Sammie does seem very low-key to Sam's mania, and I guess that's why the friendship works.

[lids]

During the wedding, Ashley seemed to warm up to David when he didn't kiss her as the guests were clanking on the glasses. You could see the relief and then appreciation in her eyes and manner. As another posted mentioned, as soon as she starts to thaw, David literally pounces. He's a clumsy oaf. He makes quick aggressive moves. She is not attracted to him. To me, it seems like she's wary of him. Like they discuss things, agree to no contact, let her go at her pace and then he pounces. Picking her up and throwing her down on the bed and he tries to get on top of her? Fans of his will say that's playful. At best, it's misguided. Does Ashley seem like she wants any intimacy initiated on camera? No. David doesn't care.

I was gonna say something about how overly thankful Ashley was at the wedding that David only kissed her hand. She seems unnaturally skiddish and I don't really know why. Some people are saying she is faking, but for what reason would she do that? She seems to recognize that she comes off like the villain. It is possible that she was assaulted by someone in her past and that left her a nervous wreck in affectionate situations. Who knows. This just makes me wonder why anyone would want to marry a stranger. You have no idea what their background is.

That said, I was watching Ashley closely after bed throwgate and she seemed pretty ok after. She even put the dog out of the room and the dog is her security blanket. So I can't get a good read from her behaviors. She sleeps with David every night, unlike Sam, and she went out of her way to call him when he was on the road. Unless production just made her do that.

Because Ashley is such a glaring neon sign of suck, I feel like David's weirdness gets passed over. David is a nice guy. I think he means well and it doesn't seem like he would ever hurt Ashley. But he IS aggressive. David is like a dog around a squirrel. Dr. C basically just told him to stop chasing the squirrel and to take it further, play dead and let the squirrel come to him. I don't think David can do that. What's more, I think the way his personality is, he won't enjoy doing that. When his friends came to visit, they said he's the guy in the bar kissing women on the first night. Maybe the experts thought this was something that would "challenge" David and help him grow. After all he was bad at dating and this may be why. But in the preview, he seems angry at Ashley that she is finally trying to talk to him and he sarcastically replies, "Oh, now you wanna try?" I predict big baby sulking from him, like his big sale just went to a competitor and he still has to be nice.

[Jack Sampson]

I don't blame David for thinking Ashley was letting down her guard and being playful, and he probably felt freer to show her affection. After the tackle and the Belle-as-cockblock moment, Ashley DID lead the dog out and shut the bedroom door. She was smiling throughout too. Knowing that Ashley doesn't do anything she doesn't want to do, my opinion is if she had felt threatened by Dave in any way, she would have removed Belle AND herself instantly.

That's a good point. If the tackle was such a turn off, why is that the ONLY time she kicked the dog out and came back in the room? The thing she has a problem with is when he's being patient and treating her like she's fragile. His caveman game seemed to get some results.

[eclectic]

Someone made a good point about our not knowing how much time these couples really were spending together. One thing I learned from last year's fiasco was that much of this is manipulated and partners are often off doing other things.  You just don't know. I'm sorry at least that Pepper Schwartz is part of a show that has so little trustworthiness.  But, I'm watching. It is addictive. 

 

I have more faith in Sam than may be warranted. Her dad said her goofiness is how she handles stress.  She's been a pretty good sport given her serious lack of attraction to Neil.  And lets face it, Neil is kind of "big bang theory" which might actually be just fine once she accepts it and learns to like it.  I think Sam might be working towards that.  But I was definitely fooled with Ryan and Jaclyn.  Still can't believe that one.

 

Finally, I do feel sorry for David although he's been much too impatient in his own mind with Ashley.  She's got problems. Much bigger than the docs know IMO.  Either she is totally doing this for the extra money every week or she is really an ice princess which may very well be why she's still single.  He honestly should be more like Neil. Becoming good friends first no matter how long is the best way to go.    Except for Trey, Vanessa and David, the other three are all odd in one way or another and I'm not surprised they are single.  I'm hoping Sam and Neil will find their other halves in each other.  Poor David.  And Vanessa, I hope she can open up.  I think Trey's for real. 

Edited January 22, 2016 by eclectic

[BonnieLass]

High five to whoever pointed out that Sam and Sammie had a bong when Neil came back to apologize for calling Sam fake. 

My apologies if anyone else already noticed/said this (I looked but didn't see anything).

 

I have no idea if Sam smokes weed or not, but after finally getting home and re-watching that scene, I can say that it was 100% NOT a bong.

 

It's called a hookah pipe. It's basically a water pipe that uses a small piece of charcoal to heat/burn tobacco, usually fruit flavored. My adult daughter has one that she pulls out at house parties for guests to use. It freaked me out the first time I saw it, because I thought the same thing everyone else did, and there I was, thinking she limited her vices to the occasional light beer and cursing up a storm in bad traffic (she gets that from her Dad, not me, lol)!!  I went with her one time to get some of the tobacco and if I'm remembering correctly, it was shaped into a small disc, not the loose tobacco we think of that's rolled into cigarettes or put pipes....but my memory be totally wrong.

 

Apparently it's something that age group does for "social fun", and she said even non-smokers use it from time to time.

 

God, I'm old.

 

ETA: I  remember that I asked my daughter if people used hookahs for smoking weed, and basically the answer was no. She gave me some scientific answer for why not, but that reason escapes me at the moment. She really doesn't know much about that kind of stuff (weed), so she might not have even known what the hell she was talking about.

Edited January 22, 2016 by BonnieLass

[ElectricCityy]

David must have some stank breath or Ashley just did this for the cash. I don't buy that she is so unattracted to this is guy that she can barely put in any effort. Ashley acts like she got paired with Quasimodo. He isn't the worse this franchise has offered.  

 

Sam is psychotic. 

[JapMo]

"And lets face it, Neil is kind of "big bang theory" which might actually just fine once you accept it and learn to like it."

 

LOL...OMG Eclectic...that is the perfect term to use for Neil. 

I would seriously question the moral values of someone who would actually marry someone for the cash.  I know, I know...that's what the term "goldigger" is for, but seriously.  It's not that much cash, is it? 

 

But then again, I can't imagine anyone being married at first sight.  It's like you walk outside, look around, and imagine anyone on the street randomly being paired with you.  How crazy would that be?

[ElectricCityy]

That's quite a leap. David has repeatedly said that he doesn't expect sex, but it would be nice to have a wife who would hug him or even give him a high-five without having to ask for it.

And a wife that doesn't act like answering "What's your favorite color?" is some huge feat.

Edited January 22, 2016 by ElectricCityy

[announcergirl]

I was like, girl, what? He’s your husband. Go to the hardware store and spend the $2 to have a key made, damn. What the hell is that? She wasn’t even TRYING to make Neil comfortable – it was so clearly her (and the roommate’s) house, not their house. She can’t shove some shit over in the closet so he can hang up his shirts? She leaves him alone in the kitchen while she and her roommate go gossip and braid each other's hair? Neil is so much nicer to her than she deserves. And she can dish it out but she sho’ can’t take it – as Neil says, she makes joking jabs all the time, yet when he does it ONCE she kicks him out of the house? Girl, bye.

I felt bad for David again, some more, during that conversation with Dr. Botox (I'm sorry, I forget his name, but his face has a very waxy appearance). I'm sure he knows Ashley isn't attracted to him but that doesn't mean it didn't sting to hear. And Ashley appeared almost human when she was crying over not being attracted to him, although the cynic in me wonders if she's crying over how bad this will/does look on TV.

David's friend, the olive-skinned one (maybe he's Hispanic or Indian?), is CUTE! Call me, friend!

Like more Ashley's style? I was a bit worried about his "dark" friend.

[Empress1]

Like more Ashley's style? I was a bit worried about his "dark" friend.

I think she hugged him right out of the gate, and my first thought was that she's said she prefers men with dark hair and eyes so he's more her type than David is. 

[announcergirl]

And, I think the guy Ashley didn't marry broke up with her. She is holding out for that guy. She wants him to see her as having moved on and desirable to another guy BUT wants to show she hasn't had an intimacy so he can come back.

Edited January 22, 2016 by announcergirl

[Neurochick]

It wasn't a mind game at all. I liked him, just wasn't sure I wanted to get serious - sleep with him. His very patient and encouraging approach changed my mind about that. Let me know he cared about me as a person, not solely as a sex partner. It makes me sad to think that my holding back out of genuine uncertainty, but then being happy when he stepped up, would be seen as a "mind game." It's anything but.

 

And there is the difference right there, you liked him, you just weren't sure.  He didn't repulse you, you just weren't sure.    The problem is that I don't think Ashley likes David.  In fact, I think Ashley is disgusted by David.  I watched their body language when they were going to ride the ferris wheel.  She walked so far away from him, damn, I've walked closer to my female friends.

[cherry slushie]

From David's muted reaction when the expert told them to take any expectation of intimacy off the table, I think he's pretty much given up.  At least I hope he has because this is obviously going nowhere.

 

And I don't think it is necessarily any one person's fault.  Ashley is the type of person who needs time.  She's said this over and over again  And she's matched with an impulsive, incredibly needy guy who wants immediate affection.  This was a disaster from the first moment the experts decided these two could make a go of it.

 

For those more adept at reading social cues/reactions on a reality show than I am, what did you make of Ashley's "oh really?" reaction when David pretty much immediately agreed to any expectation of affection.  Was she surprised? Disbelieving?  I'd like others' opinions because I can't really decide.

 

If Ashley had been matched up with a dark-haired, dashing, stud she was attracted to; she would have given it up by now.  Her "I need to move slow" shtick is just that.  She's repulsed by David and doesn't want to try.  I recall the season coming attractions showing David telling Ashley that he'd hooked up with someone else.  I hope my memory isn't failing me because that would be the best thing ever for him.

[kam]

And there is the difference right there, you liked him, you just weren't sure. He didn't repulse you, you just weren't sure. The problem is that I don't think Ashley likes David. In fact, I think Ashley is disgusted by David. I watched their body language when they were going to ride the ferris wheel. She walked so far away from him, damn, I've walked closer to my female friends.

yea. she doesn't like him at all. I don't even think she can convince herself otherwise. I'm sure that's a tough spot to be in especially because you are contracted to communicate with this person for 6 weeks.

[Empress1]

If Ashley had been matched up with a dark-haired, dashing, stud she was attracted to; she would have given it up by now.  Her "I need to move slow" shtick is just that.  She's repulsed by David and doesn't want to try.  I recall the season coming attractions showing David telling Ashley that he'd hooked up with someone else.  I hope my memory isn't failing me because that would be the best thing ever for him.

Really?! That would be drama, for sure. I think Ashley would be livid.

[okerry]

If Ashley had been matched up with a dark-haired, dashing, stud she was attracted to; she would have given it up by now.  Her "I need to move slow" shtick is just that.  She's repulsed by David and doesn't want to try.  

See, I'm still not convinced that that's the case. She did marry him. And at the reception, when everybody was chiming on the glasses and she was afraid he was going to go for a kiss on the lips, he actually had the presence of mind to kiss her hand - and she broke out in a big smile. Not because she was relieved that he hadn't touched her, but because it was a charming and thoughtful gesture and I think she really did like that.

 

If he had continued on that same track, things might be very different now. But my guess is that that was the last charming and thoughtful physical gesture he made towards Ashley. Would that guarantee she'd fall for him? No. But at least he would have had a chance if he'd done everything else the same way he'd gone about the hand-kissing. The whiny, complaining approach that he adopted afterwards only guaranteed that he had zero chance with Ashley, and that's sad.  Maybe he'll at least learn from this and do a better job in his next relationship.

[Leanne]

Hi everyone! I am a long time lurker and really enjoy reading everyone's take on the show and participants. I decided why not join in? The person who seems really off kilter to me (well the most of all of them) is Sam. I just am not seeing any sincerity from her at all on the show. She barely tolerates Neil and I find her delivery to be sarcastic and nasty when she speaks to him. I also follow her on Twitter and at first was impressed with her taking accountability for her actions. Then I decided that wasn't genuine either. All her responses to people are super perfunctory "sorry you feel that way. Thanks for your opinion though

[lavenderpenguin]

Sam is batshit crazy. There isn't much more to it. I can't believe Neil is still sane after spending so much time with her. 

 

Ashley can't stand David. It's obvious that this isn't a "need to move slowly" situation as much as it's a "deeply repulsed by him" situation. No one moves so slowly that they feel uncomfortable giving an occasional hug, or a kiss on the cheek after a couple of weeks. The problem is obviously that she's super unattracted to him, so much so that the thought of him kissing her, or initiating any physical touching, is unappealing for her.

[sleekandchic]

Judging David by what I've seen on the screen every week (the FYI version@75 minutes a show) I don't find him to be whiny, needy, complaining or a tone-deaf Neanderthal.

He entered this insanity being excited and hopeful for the prospect of finding a companion "matched by experts," who would share many of his values, characteristics, traits, interests, hopes and dreams. Unlike other participants we've seen over three seasons, I believe David was absolutely serious about this entire enterprise.

But now, overall, I think he's disappointed, confused, careful, sad. And though he had his own suspicions, after that joint session with Cilona and Ashley, David knows for sure that Ashley will never be interested in him due to lack of chemistry. So now David is Hurt, with a capital H because he knows the Dream is dead. If subsequent episodes show him to be surly and sulky, while turning to tinder or match, I can understand his reactions. I give him credit for recognizing that, like it or not, he needs to move on and that he's responsible for his own well-being.

I dont mind casting Ashley negatively because I don't think her participation in MAFS has been an honest one. David, in my opinion, was legitimate when he joined up for the show. He truly thought he and his bride were entering the experiment on equal footing, with similar goals. I can't dissect him harshly now in retrospect, because he was caught in a sham and operating blind. Once matched with Ashley, he NEVER had a chance. Jmo, as always.

I like Vanessa so much, and I feel her pain and insecurities; they're palpable! She needs therapy and self-realization and sufficiency. No husband, career, friends, car or home can replace self-worth or fill the space in an empty heart. We need to start with ourselves, and we need to believe we are worth our own efforts. Vanessa has many things going for her. She needs therapy to recognize that her happiness and security must be found within herself, first and foremost.

Edited January 22, 2016 by sleekandchic

[ctbabe]

Judging David by what I've seen on the screen every week (the FYI version@75 minutes a show) I don't find him to be whiny, needy, complaining or a tone-deaf Neanderthal.

He entered this insanity being excited and hopeful for the prospect of finding a companion "matched by experts," who would share many of his values, characteristics, traits, interests, hopes and dreams. Unlike other participants we've seen over three seasons, I believe David was absolutely serious about this entire enterprise.

But now, overall, I think he's disappointed, confused, careful, sad. And though he had his own suspicions, after that joint session with Cilona and Ashley, David knows for sure that Ashley will never be interested in him due to lack of chemistry. So now David is Hurt, with a capital H because he knows the Dream is dead. If subsequent episodes show him to be surly and sulky, while turning to tinder or match, I can understand his reactions. I give him credit for recognizing that, like it or not, he needs to move on and that he's responsible for his own well-being.

I dont mind casting Ashley negatively because I don't think her participation in MAFS has been an honest one. David, in my opinion, was legitimate when he joined up for the show. He truly thought he and his bride were entering the experiment on equal footing, with similar goals. I can't dissect him harshly now in retrospect, because he was caught in a sham and operating blind. Once matched with Ashley, he NEVER had a chance. Jmo, as always.

I like Vanessa so much, and I feel her pain and insecurities; they're palpable! She needs therapy and self-realization and sufficiency. No husband, career, friends, car or home can replace self-worth or fill the space in an empty heart. We need to start with ourselves, and we need to believe we are worth our own efforts. Vanessa has many things going for her. She needs therapy to recognize that her happiness and security must be found within herself, first and foremost.

LOVE your comment. I totally agree Edited January 22, 2016 by ctbabe

[Madding crowd]

I will never understand the idea of pairing people together because they suffered the same kind of traumas. If anything, they need people who didn't experience the same bad things so they could be strong for each other. A man who had a strong father figure would help Vanessa by bringing in a different upbringing, father and family into her life. And Vanessa could bring other values into her husband's life. My husband and I came from very different families: his family had money but are cold people, my family was poor but we are crazy about each other. Somehow we are able to bring the other what they need.

 

I honestly don't know what the hell is wrong with Sam. I personally don't find Neil attractive in looks or personality, but he does seem to be trying hard. Unlike Ashley, I don't think Sam is repulsed by Neil and I think a part of her wants things to work out. Either she has a huge amount of anxiety, or something else is going on.

 

Ashley should never have gone on this show. If she is a person who wants and expects a long time to get to know someone, only likes guys who look a certain way, and wants long periods of time with no physical contact, getting married to a stranger is the last thing she needs to do. David is a little needy, but he also is funny, kind and light hearted. I'm sure Ashley has some good qualities, but I haven't seen any yet.

 

I can't see any of these couples working but if I had to pick one I would say Neil and Sam (and I have been saying that from the beginning). They are both very quirky and might make it work. Vanessa and Tres are a possibility and I think they are both really nice people, but Tres signed up to be on a different reality show and I just don't think he is ready for marriage. And Vanessa doesn't know what she wants yet. She thinks she does, but she needs to work out some things first.

[ketose]

David and Neil both have bad approaches. David is a little too invested. I think he wants to be married more than he wants sex. He's pushing for a relationship, which includes non-cringing. Neil lacks passion. Part of that is bad because Sam's a super drama queen. That being said, Sam and Ashley are crazy and even if those two switched spouses, it would be just as bad.

 

Ashley has been pretty good at convincing people that she just needs time. What she needs is for David to leave her alone for six weeks because she only knows how to relate to a guy based on physical attraction. Seriously, David hasn't even been able to TALK to her. There a difference between taking it slow and a dead stop. I think the experts are performing an experiment on a guy who takes things too fast paired with a woman who is disgusted by his looks. At least Dr. C pulled the plug when he told Ashley to explain she didn't want an ugly husband. He probably started texting girls the next day.

[Lola16]

 

Some of you act like it was bordering on rape when he lobbed her on to the bed.  Poor delicate little flower Ashley....her sense of decorum was sooooo offended.

David didn't lob her. He picked her up, held her and dunked her on the bed with himself.  I didn't see anyone compare it to rape or a sexual assault.  I myself called him a clumsy oaf. 

 

Of course the same posters who criticize Ashley for not finding David her type are the very same ones calling her fat and ugly ("a 5 at best") and mustachioed. I doubt David would be trying this hard if he were matched up with Sam.

 

Because Ashley is such a glaring neon sign of suck, I feel like David's weirdness gets passed over. David is a nice guy. I think he means well and it doesn't seem like he would ever hurt Ashley. But he IS aggressive. David is like a dog around a squirrel. Dr. C basically just told him to stop chasing the squirrel and to take it further, play dead and let the squirrel come to him. I don't think David can do that. What's more, I think the way his personality is, he won't enjoy doing that. When his friends came to visit, they said he's the guy in the bar kissing women on the first night. Maybe the experts thought this was something that would "challenge" David and help him grow. After all he was bad at dating and this may be why. But in the preview, he seems angry at Ashley that she is finally trying to talk to him and he sarcastically replies, "Oh, now you wanna try?" I predict big baby sulking from him, like his big sale just went to a competitor and he still has to be nice.

Bolding mine.  So David sucks face at bars with random women.  That screams marriage material and commitment ready!  

 

If Ashley had been matched up with a dark-haired, dashing, stud she was attracted to; she would have given it up by now.  Her "I need to move slow" shtick is just that.  She's repulsed by David and doesn't want to try.  I recall the season coming attractions showing David telling Ashley that he'd hooked up with someone else.  I hope my memory isn't failing me because that would be the best thing ever for him.

It's a 6 week commitment.  The best thing ever would be for David to get some tail with someone who is not his wife because she is repulsed by him?  Can't agree.  The best thing would be to wait 3 more weeks until it's over and then date.  But sure, ok, I guess adultery is the best thing ever.  If he really is committed to making it work, and is really into being married, then he can wait 3 more weeks.

[princelina]

 

Also, I don't know if this is the proper thread for it but this conversation has strongly reminded of Linda Holmes' articles about Married by America back before she was on NPR and just writing for TWOP. Anyone here who hasn't read them would probably enjoy it even if none of us really remember that precursor to this show. (ETA - honestly, the write-ups are hilarious and insightful plus there is one couple on that show that had the same dynamic as David and Ashley)  http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/show/married-by-america/

Thanks for that!  I just wasted way to much time reading it, but it was enjoyable.  And in episode 6, when the couples had to meet with a "sex expert", who do you think it was but our own Dr. Pepper?

[Snarklepuss]

I agree with this.  I think Ashley took one look at David and thought, "nope."  To her that was that, no compromise, nothing.  Maybe she told the show the type of man she's normally attracted to and they gave her the exact opposite.  

 

My issue with the common definition of courtship and wooing is that there is a goal to it, the goal is marriage, relationship or sex.  If Ashley is dead set against either, then David has not chance, no matter what he does, she will not respond.  So all the talk of courtship and let Ashley have her space and just hold her hand and let her respond won't work, because she's just not attracted to him, end of story. 

 

After one of the busiest days of my life yesterday, I can finally weigh in on this - THANK YOU because this is exactly what I wanted to say on this!  No amount of courtship or hanging back or anything would work with Ashley because she shut down to David immediately based on her non-attraction to him and would never open the door even a tiny bit to reconsider that no matter what.  I doubt there was anything he could do to help change her feelings, which is why I have said before that he was totally F-ed with Ashley from the start.  There is no therapy, no patience, no hand-holding or anything that would change her mind.  That was obvious to me from the start.  You can't get blood from a stone.

 

Also, to those who say David is "aggressive" or "whiny" or whatever, I think it needs to be remembered that this is how he is after WEEKS of being paired with a person that has given him absolutely no reciprocation except perhaps what the producers have basically forced her to do.  I doubt that she let the dog out of the room for any other reason than the camera was on her and he had just called her on the dog being a "cock block".  I doubt that any guy would seem any less aggravated, pushy, "whiny" or whatever people have said about him after all that.  He has actually been overly patient with Ashley under the circumstances.  I can't fault him for what we have seen from him so far.  Everything about him being this or that kind of "pushy" or "needy" guy is just conjecture at this point and I personally have not seen it because I don't forget that what he's up against can change the way he looks.  Anyone would look a little pathetic up against someone like Ashley.  Her behavior has been so non-affirming she has shut down to even the idea of a friendship with him.  He can't even find a place in the "friend zone" with her, she is that shut down to him and has been so from day one.

[Snarklepuss]

But now, overall, I think he's disappointed, confused, careful, sad. And though he had his own suspicions, after that joint session with Cilona and Ashley, David knows for sure that Ashley will never be interested in him due to lack of chemistry. So now David is Hurt, with a capital H because he knows the Dream is dead. If subsequent episodes show him to be surly and sulky, while turning to tinder or match, I can understand his reactions. I give him credit for recognizing that, like it or not, he needs to move on and that he's responsible for his own well-being.

I dont mind casting Ashley negatively because I don't think her participation in MAFS has been an honest one. David, in my opinion, was legitimate when he joined up for the show. He truly thought he and his bride were entering the experiment on equal footing, with similar goals. I can't dissect him harshly now in retrospect, because he was caught in a sham and operating blind. Once matched with Ashley, he NEVER had a chance. Jmo, as always.

 

Yes, to both paragraphs.  I understand how David would feel under these circumstances as well and won't judge his behavior in a vacuum.  Imagine just marrying someone and finding out they are dead set against pursuing any kind of relationship with you and are just going through the motions until they can get away from you.  Anyone who was serious about the process would be angry and acting hurt.  I see a lot of David's behavior coming from that position.  It is obvious to me that he knows he is screwed with her and the rest of his behavior can be chalked up to anger at her and probably the show for matching him with her.  It's like last season when people called Davina all sorts of things but who could blame her reaction to being paired with asshole Sean?  Of course she would look a little picky and princess-like next to him.  She wasn't perfect either but she was serious about finding a relationship while Sean was probably not.

[Snarklepuss]

Ashley can't stand David. It's obvious that this isn't a "need to move slowly" situation as much as it's a "deeply repulsed by him" situation. No one moves so slowly that they feel uncomfortable giving an occasional hug, or a kiss on the cheek after a couple of weeks. The problem is obviously that she's super unattracted to him, so much so that the thought of him kissing her, or initiating any physical touching, is unappealing for her.

 

I'm remembering a situation in my life when a guy who was physically repulsive to me latched onto me in college.  Then again, he was a total dweeb to the point that most people avoided him, not just women.  I kind of felt sorry for him and let him hang around my suite room in the dorm until it became obvious to me that he was into me and wanted more than just hanging around with me.  I made it clear to him verbally that I was not interested in more than friendship with him.  He seemed to take this OK but after a while I saw that it was hard for him to handle so I told him I didn't want to hurt him so maybe he should not put himself in a position to be hurt all the time and take a break from coming around for a while.  Well, he not only took a break, he totally disappeared.  I was sad but I totally understood.  I didn't want to see the guy in such agony anymore.  

 

Anyway, the point of this story is that this is exactly how the Ashley/David relationship would have gone down if not for the fact that they MARRIED each other before any of this could happen.  I honestly don't think Ashley would want to hurt David, but she is forced to be around him all the time because of the show rules, etc., so she has no choice.  I think that's one reason she doesn't want to say anything to hurt him.  She knows she has already hurt him by not reciprocating so why rub salt in the wound?  Unfortunately unless she is honest with him about there never being any chance the poor guy will be tortured to death thinking there is something he can do to help her change her feelings towards him even if that means taking the possibility of pursuing any kind of physical intimacy off the table.  And that's really not fair to him, but she won't admit to the cameras that this is the truth because she has to save face by acting like there is a chance but she just needs more time.  Bullshit.  And that is why I am not on board with Ashley at this point or ever.

[Meliss]

I need to stick up for Ashley-- she should not be expected to be physical with someone she does not like. The TV David is not the real David--I believe she has a gut feeling about him that goes way past physical appearance--he is not genuine. Think about it--he gives her a hard time because she won't be physical with him!! (How is that a "nice" guy?)

His idea of love is completely based on being physical with her---when the expert asks him to back off of the advances and sexual expectations - he doesn't like it. Without sex as a possible reward, he is not interested in making an effort!!!!!(This is what Ashley's gut feeling is telling her & THAT is why she gives him a disbelieving look when he says he will stop pressuring her to be physical with him.)

He is shallow & is playing the "nice guy" game!!! He has been very manipulative with the character he has created on the show - he is working hard to get the audience to feel sorry for him because he is so "nice." Even the dinner he made--how can she be blamed for being late to a dinner she knew nothing about? To me that is a set up for him to play victim--which happens over & over. He plays a guy that is "nice husband type" but it is fake & Ashley senses it.

The next show has Ashley trying to work through things with him - which he claims he wants--except his reaction is to get pissed at her for it. Every episode shows these contradictions & manipulations. He is a scary & women should run far, far away!

[Snarklepuss]

Oh man, Meliss, I have to completely disagree.  I think just based on what we have seen on the show, David has made a monumental effort to be all-in on this marriage.  I think any bad attitude he has now is a result of getting absolutely nothing in return from her.  She is making him about as frustrated with her in every way as a woman can make a man.  How much can a guy give before he gets annoyed and starts showing it?  And geesh, for the umpteenth time, she should have given him a quick call or text to let him know she'd be late even if she didn't know about any dinner.  Any decent spouse should do that for their partner.  I wouldn't be married for 35 years if my husband didn't do that for me on a daily basis!

 

I don't expect anyone to want to be physically intimate with someone they don't find attractive, but I don't think she doesn't find him attractive because there's something wrong with HIM.  I think it's because of something wrong with HER.  He is most certainly NOT the hunchback of Notre Dame plus she acted closed off to him from day one long before she could have figured out that there was anything so wrong with him.  Plus Ashley doesn't strike me as being mature or intuitive enough to have a "gut feeling" about someone other than the fact that he's not "her type".  I think she is just too rigid as to what she finds attractive in a man, from physical appearance to personality, whatever.  I also think her reticence to consider a nice guy who may just not happen to be her "usual" physical type but is not technically unattractive says more about her lack of readiness for a real, intimate marriage than it says about David.  And if she wasn't ready for that she had no business coming on this show. 

 

I suspect that Ashley has relationship issues that make Vanessa's look like a piece of cake by comparison.  Ashley is a closed book about her past which tips me off that there is something she's hiding.  She may be sabotaging the relationship with David due to her own baggage from the past.  When someone sabotages you, they end up making people suspect you for being the problem when they're really holding the key to the entire disaster.  That's because Ashley is not being honest, in my opinion.  As others have suspected, she still may have unfinished business from her last relationship that's interfering, perhaps because the old boyfriend is still in the picture somehow, or just because he left her with a butt load of hang ups.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[Liberty]

Glad to see new members of previously.tv, whose first post on these forums is standing up for Ashley on S3E8 discussion.  Wonder what it was about that episode that brought out the support for Ashley. 

 

Welcome new posters.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Liberty

[ctbabe]

I need to stick up for Ashley-- she should not be expected to be physical with someone she does not like. The TV David is not the real David--I believe she has a gut feeling about him that goes way past physical appearance--he is not genuine. Think about it--he gives her a hard time because she won't be physical with him!! (How is that a "nice" guy?)

His idea of love is completely based on being physical with her---when the expert asks him to back off of the advances and sexual expectations - he doesn't like it. Without sex as a possible reward, he is not interested in making an effort!!!!!(This is what Ashley's gut feeling is telling her & THAT is why she gives him a disbelieving look when he says he will stop pressuring her to be physical with him.)

He is shallow & is playing the "nice guy" game!!! He has been very manipulative with the character he has created on the show - he is working hard to get the audience to feel sorry for him because he is so "nice." Even the dinner he made--how can she be blamed for being late to a dinner she knew nothing about? To me that is a set up for him to play victim--which happens over & over. He plays a guy that is "nice husband type" but it is fake & Ashley senses it.

The next show has Ashley trying to work through things with him - which he claims he wants--except his reaction is to get pissed at her for it. Every episode shows these contradictions & manipulations. He is a scary & women should run far, far away!

I don't know where to start dissecting this comment.

1. 'The tv David is not the real david' because he is pushing her to get physical. I think because the show is Called MARRIED AT FIRST SIGHT', He was expecting someone that really wanted to get married like him.he wasn't expecting sex from her just hold hands and TALKING.

2. The pity party you are talking is always done on his diary cam. What is the benefit of a diary camera when you can't say how you truly feel? After Dr Pepper's visit, he wanted to talk abt the visit right after And Ash wasn't ready. He said his peace and respectfully left. I actually feel that Ashley is more aware of the camera than he is.

If you know him personally and have proof of how manipulative he is, please present it. However based on what was shown I disagree.

[kam]

I need to stick up for Ashley-- she should not be expected to be physical with someone she does not like. The TV David is not the real David--I believe she has a gut feeling about him that goes way past physical appearance--he is not genuine. Think about it--he gives her a hard time because she won't be physical with him!! (How is that a "nice" guy?)

His idea of love is completely based on being physical with her---when the expert asks him to back off of the advances and sexual expectations - he doesn't like it. Without sex as a possible reward, he is not interested in making an effort!!!!!(This is what Ashley's gut feeling is telling her & THAT is why she gives him a disbelieving look when he says he will stop pressuring her to be physical with him.)

He is shallow & is playing the "nice guy" game!!! He has been very manipulative with the character he has created on the show - he is working hard to get the audience to feel sorry for him because he is so "nice." Even the dinner he made--how can she be blamed for being late to a dinner she knew nothing about? To me that is a set up for him to play victim--which happens over & over. He plays a guy that is "nice husband type" but it is fake & Ashley senses it.

The next show has Ashley trying to work through things with him - which he claims he wants--except his reaction is to get pissed at her for it. Every episode shows these contradictions & manipulations. He is a scary & women should run far, far away!

Wow. You pretty much said everything I caught on to in regards to David. The nice guy act is exactly that an "act". Viewers are eating it up. I wouldn't be surprised if things are leaked about him after the season is over. Ashley isn't my favorite but I don't think she deserves half of the hate she gets because she's not attracted to someone. I try to picture myself in the same position and I don't think I would be able to force myself to like someone I obviously have no interest in. I think she gets creeper from him. Then again I wouldn't be on this show, this show is not for Ashley.

[ctbabe]

I feel like we're watching two different shows, lol. Ths sounds more like crying clown Ryan than David.

How do you know what is on a show that hasn't aired yet? Maybe my DVR cut off the preview, but I don't remember seeing that.

I swear I feel like they were given extra clips because I must have missed most of these. Even Ashley defended David when someone called him needy on twitter. BTW What would you guys expect from him after that bombshell, holding hands with Ash (Damn no touching is even allowed) and singing kumbaya? Of course it would take TIME to figure out what to do next. If I were him, I would start acting exactly like she was acting after the honeymoon. Playing on my phone and minding my own business. The tolerance level would reduce drastically because this is a lose -lose situation.

[BBDi]

For me, I can honestly say that I don't know what these contestants are like in real life, how much time they've spent together, whether there's stuff we haven't seen that got edited out, etc.

Wrt Ashley & David and Sam & Neil, I do suspect that both couples were pretty much DOA and we're just seeing a bunch of window dressing.

I'm not sticking up for Ashley in particular, but I would guess that her strategy has been to close up and put as little of herself on camera as she can - so I feel like I have no idea who she really is one way or another. As has been said many times, whst the hell is she doing on this show?

[ctbabe]

For me, I can honestly say that I don't know what these contestants are like in real life, how much time they've spent together, whether there's stuff we haven't seen that got edited out, etc.

Wrt Ashley & David and Sam & Neil, I do suspect that both couples were pretty much DOA and we're just seeing a bunch of window dressing.

I'm not sticking up for Ashley in particular, but I would guess that her strategy has been to close up and put as little of herself on camera as she can - so I feel like I have no idea who she really is one way or another. As has been said many times, whst the hell is she doing on this show?

I totally agree abt Ashley not wanting to look bad on camera. Same with Neil. ItS like after 3weeks, I still don't know them. She is just so wrong for the show.

[BunnySlippers]

I swear I feel like they were given extra clips because I must have missed most of these. Even Ashley defended David when someone called him needy on twitter. BTW What would you guys expect from him after that bombshell, holding hands with Ash (Damn no touching is even allowed) and singing kumbaya? Of course it would take TIME to figure out what to do next. If I were him, I would start acting exactly like she was acting after the honeymoon. Playing on my phone and minding my own business. The tolerance level would reduce drastically because this is a lose -lose situation.

 

They had a rerun on Wednesday on FYI and they did show that preview at the end. I forgot what exactly was happening, but Ashley and David were talking about their situation and he seemed pretty annoyed with her. It's interesting that Ashley actually defended David on Twitter. That's new.

 

I have to say that if I were in David's shoes, yeah, I would have given up a long time ago, and would have matched her cold fish attitude, but that's because of how I am. We are all different, and apparently David is all about trying to save "his marriage." I don't think he realizes at this point that there's basically no marriage here. Like others have said, she's just biding her time.

 

There was a post by a friend of Ashley's that alleged that David was doing exactly what you're saying when the cameras weren't around: playing with his phone and not paying her any attention. I have no idea if that's true or not. Like someone has pointed out, Ashley has not complained about it on the show, so who knows.

[seasick]

Men are more "visual" by nature.  I think that has been fairly well documented and accepted.  They are more inclined to be swept away by looks, and not only typical beauty, but by cleavage, hooker heels, and other sexual signals.  

 

I think women vary on this.  I can appreciate a good looking guy, but I don't necessarily find him sexy (sexually attractive) just because of his good looks.  I for one, do not find the male strippers (good looking-- great bodies) sexually attractive.  (I see them as possibly. vain and a vain man -overtly--where I can detect it-- is a huge turn-off to me.  (no I don't know them personally)  but the point is the great looks and body is just not an automatic turn-on to Me.  I am much more about personality. (self-confidence, a decent brain and a good sense of humor are my turn-on's and it helps alot of a guy doesn't mind getting his hands dirty and can fix things)   I didn't make that choice.  And I don't know if it says I have any greater depth of character, .  .. It just is.  I am also a straight female.  I didn't make that choice--it just is..

 

I think Ashley is very "visual" in what turns her on.  (yeah I know she threw out the strippers but that's not what we're talking about). It's hard to say what kind of personality she goes for, or if she cares. But it just is.  

 

David is obviously very visual because he remains ga-ga over Ashley who is cold as ice and will hardly talk to him.  HE doesn't seem to care AT ALL about her personality or lack of it.  'She's 'Purty" and I don't care about the rest.'  It's dumb!!  (but often, typical) Also--"The experts bagged her for me.. I could never get her on my own, so I'm keepin' her!"  

 

That strong visual attraction alone can be very dismissive of who a person really is beyond that ---such as with David's attitude..  But I don't think it necessarily stays at that superficial level in all "visuals"..  But for them that has to be their first priority.

 

I truly wonder what would have happened had Ashley been matched with Ryan D. who had movie-star good looks (IMO) but was a nasty, conceited prick with 'other problems'  (JMHO!)   It's hard for me to say how "shallow" Ashley is with her relationships because I hardly can tell who she is.  But I can't assume that she is  shallow *just* because her biggest priority is someone's look.

 

And I cannot say at this point if Ashley's cold, rude, closed, dull, un-fun blank-stare personality is about her, David, the cameras, a resentment toward production or frankly, a little too much anti-anxiety meds.  (I suspect!--yes!)  . But! she's a real Case for a REAL expert I think.       (I hope we can move on soon to Sam and Neil.  they are both interesting  'Cases'    for me..(Capital C on purpose)

[ctbabe]

They had a rerun on Wednesday on FYI and they did show that preview at the end. I forgot what exactly was happening, but Ashley and David were talking about their situation and he seemed pretty annoyed with her. It's interesting that Ashley actually defended David on Twitter. That's new.

I have to say that if I were in David's shoes, yeah, I would have given up a long time ago, and would have matched her cold fish attitude, but that's because of how I am. We are all different, and apparently David is all about trying to save "his marriage." I don't think he realizes at this point that there's basically no marriage here. Like others have said, she's just biding her time.

There was a post by a friend of Ashley's that alleged that David was doing exactly what you're saying when the cameras weren't around: playing with his phone and not paying her any attention. I have no idea if that's true or not. Like someone has pointed out, Ashley has not complained about it on the show, so who knows.

She defended him on twitter when someone said he was so needy.. she said we were still trying to figure things out but she delete the comment later. I am sorry I don't believe the he didn't communicate off camera. She never said anything on the diary cam and even when the camera was around. She inferred that he might have been affectionate towards her off camera, when she was talking to Dr C. Also remember they went to get the fish on their own. I see this as face saving, sorry.

I don't even know where to start regarding Sammmm... it take a lot to forgive THAT type of behavior.

[SneakyCentipede]

he said "there's a basement"...which... what?! That's stuck in my head because of how strange I found it. Unless Ryan R from last season came with it, I don't get what a big deal about just a basement is.

Bwahahahahaha! This seriously made me crack up out loud like a lunatic at work. And in the process give myself away that I'm clearly not running reports.

[BBDi]

Apologies - I can't figure out how to quote on my mobile today.

But in reference to one of the posts above about David being "ga ga" over Ashley - that's an example of what I mean about feeling like I don't know the contestants in any way. I have no idea if he really feels anything towards her.

Even if he thought she was attractive at first sight in such an idealized setting perhaps he doesn't anymore.

I have no idea how he and Neil feel about their respective spouses. From what I can see it seems like they are more focused on trying to be husbands than on their own feelings.

It seems kind of unrealistic for the show to try to create this narrative where both these guys really really like or even love their wives and it's just a matter of trying to win them over. It's silly, to be honest.

[seasick]

And I just wanted to add this:   I don't know where David is getting his signals from, but it should be made Crystal Clear by Ashley if no one else can (and VERBALLY-- not just with body language or death stares) that this is NOT going to become a "marriage"  (i.e. consummated sexually.)    

 

It *is*  starting to make him look lecherous by him pushing the physical.  I don't know if production is goading him or it's his own idea but it's starting to not look good for him IMO

 

But yet I have seen posts saying Ashley should at least "try" kissing him  or "try" holding hands as that might change her mind.  I know that that doesn't work for ME.   Maybe that's the mind-set David has or has been told--  and so he thinks the "golden Kiss" will turn him from Beast to Beauty in her eyes.   It is starting to make him look bad.  Despite the fact that Ashley did sign up for the show, yes...big mistake!!!...she doesn't owe him a physical relationship on any level.  (a little friendship and conversation wouldn't have hurt in the beginning true--but we're beyond that possibility now) 

[cherry slushie]

David didn't lob her. He picked her up, held her and dunked her on the bed with himself.  I didn't see anyone compare it to rape or a sexual assault.  I myself called him a clumsy oaf. 

 

Of course the same posters who criticize Ashley for not finding David her type are the very same ones calling her fat and ugly ("a 5 at best") and mustachioed. I doubt David would be trying this hard if he were matched up with Sam.

 

Bolding mine.  So David sucks face at bars with random women.  That screams marriage material and commitment ready!  

 

It's a 6 week commitment.  The best thing ever would be for David to get some tail with someone who is not his wife because she is repulsed by him?  Can't agree.  The best thing would be to wait 3 more weeks until it's over and then date.  But sure, ok, I guess adultery is the best thing ever.  If he really is committed to making it work, and is really into being married, then he can wait 3 more weeks.

 

Oh, I'm most certainly not a proponent of adultery, especially having been a victim of it; but since this show is an experiment with hopes of love lasting, it's a little different than an organic relationship/marriage. That being said, If I am recalling correctly, this takes place at the tail end of the season with maybe one week left. if that, and I'm sure by then David is 100% sure he has no shot with Ashley.

Edited January 22, 2016 by cherry slushie

[Neurochick]

Can a person still get an annulment if the marriage was never consummated?  I know a woman who did get an annulment on that basis.  

[lavenderpenguin]

I need to stick up for Ashley-- she should not be expected to be physical with someone she does not like. The TV David is not the real David--I believe she has a gut feeling about him that goes way past physical appearance--he is not genuine. Think about it--he gives her a hard time because she won't be physical with him!! (How is that a "nice" guy?)

His idea of love is completely based on being physical with her---when the expert asks him to back off of the advances and sexual expectations - he doesn't like it. Without sex as a possible reward, he is not interested in making an effort!!!!!(This is what Ashley's gut feeling is telling her & THAT is why she gives him a disbelieving look when he says he will stop pressuring her to be physical with him.)

He is shallow & is playing the "nice guy" game!!! He has been very manipulative with the character he has created on the show - he is working hard to get the audience to feel sorry for him because he is so "nice." Even the dinner he made--how can she be blamed for being late to a dinner she knew nothing about? To me that is a set up for him to play victim--which happens over & over. He plays a guy that is "nice husband type" but it is fake & Ashley senses it.

The next show has Ashley trying to work through things with him - which he claims he wants--except his reaction is to get pissed at her for it. Every episode shows these contradictions & manipulations. He is a scary & women should run far, far away!

 

I don't think Ashley has any obligation to have ANY physical contact with David, if she chooses not to. But at the same time, I think David's concerns are valid from the perspective of being invested in the marriage. Physical intimacy is a part of any healthy marriage (and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find many people who would want no physical contact with a person they are romantically interested in) -- they've only known each other for a few weeks, but physical affection is not just sex. It's hugging, a kiss on the cheek, holding hands, and Ashley is uncomfortable with all of that as well. Which leads me to believe it's not about moving slowly, so much as it's about finding an excuse to avoid all physical contact until she can end the marriage. 

 

However, I do think that many viewers' problems with Ashley go beyond the David/Ashley dynamic to Ashley's personality. She has less personality than dry toast and when she speaks, it's like she's dead on the inside. It's bizarre. You can still be friendly, animated, and warm with someone, even if you're unattracted to them. But she's disinterested in even building a quasi-frendship with David, which is what is so painful to watch. Jaclyn from last season is a good example of the opposite -- putting aside the fact that she eventually was attracted to Ryan, she was still very graceful and warm during the first couple of weeks where she wasn't feeling it. She joked around, she talked about her, she focused on building at least a nice friendship, and I think Ashley could do that, while still maintaining physical boundaries/not making things romantic.

Edited January 22, 2016 by lavenderpenguin

[BonnieLass]

Can a person still get an annulment if the marriage was never consummated?  I know a woman who did get an annulment on that basis. 

 

Per Georgia law, they will have to get a divorce. They are not eligible for an annulment just because they didn't consummate the marriage. 

[okerry]

But yet I have seen posts saying Ashley should at least "try" kissing him  or "try" holding hands as that might change her mind.  I know that that doesn't work for ME.   Maybe that's the mind-set David has or has been told--  and so he thinks the "golden Kiss" will turn him from Beast to Beauty in her eyes.   It is starting to make him look bad.

 

She HAS tried a few small things - and I'm tellin' ya, David is one of those guys who goes from zero to 900 in a nanosecond and has NO speed in between. That's why she is so shut down. I've been around "nice" guys who were exactly like this. If you give them the slightest encouragement, they will instantly push and push and push and push for more and more and more - AND IF YOU DON'T RESPOND EVERY BIT AS FAST, they whine and complain and ignore you and blame you just like David is doing. Which is an even BIGGER turnoff and makes the whole situation WORSE. Just like we're seeing here.

 

If you've never encountered a guy like this, he's just going to look like a poor poor innocent nice guy who's being shot down by an Ice Queen for no apparent reason. Which is how many posters here are reacting to him. It's understandable, and I'm just glad you haven't had to date a man who does this!

 

If you have had the misfortune to get involved with a guy like this, you'll recognize it instantly and wonder why the hell Dr. Sexologist, or somebody, doesn't tell David to change his approach.

 

1) Do small physical things and be encouraging if she responds in the slightest.

2) DO NOT keep pushing for more. See #1. Repeat #1. She will let you know when a little more would be okay. Always leave them wanting more. That's how you get the girl to relax and come around.

3) For gawd's sake DO NOT whine, bitch, complain and play the victim if/when she doesn't move as fast as you do.

 

Either David wants to learn from this and wants an actual chance with his wife, or he can keep on doing this with every woman he meets and keep on being the guy who's "bad at dating" but blaming the women for not responding. Even his guy friends were shaking their heads over him being the one kissing the women in the bars on the first night. Even they said that he was pushing for too much too fast and had no idea how to let a physical relationship with a female develop naturally.

[stuckin60s]

My perception on David is different.  (perception is all we have due to editing and production, we are being led where they want us to be.  they knew the outcome before they edited the show for our pleasure)

 

if you look at the wedding, he kissed her hand to take the pressure off.  She wanted to sleep in the room alone on the honeymoon , he did.  She wanted to stay in her apt the first night back, he said okay.  etc etc

 

he is trying to get her to talk, open up a little.  become friends. etc.  I am sure that he would like more, but he has even said this isn't the time for that

 

She wants no part of him, the show, the cameras, the games, the tests etc.  just the cash

 

As most people have said, she should never have been allowed to be a contestant