S01.E07: Windmills

[formerlyfreedom]

Holden and his crew face a Martian military blockade. Miller finds a new reason to forge ahead. Avasarala visits Holden’s family.

 

 

[Lassus]

Am I allowed to complain about why the hell we are visiting Holden's family and how awful they've made the Avasarala character?

[thuganomics85]

Between Frances Fisher as Holden's mom and Kurtwood Smith popping up over on Agent Carter, I certainly was not expecting Tuesday Night to be night of former Resurrection stars.  Great to see her, and this was probably my favorite scene with Chrisjen, due to the acting, plus I feel like Chrisjen is finally starting to fit into the bigger picture.  It seems like she now thinks Holden isn't guilty of the bombings and wants to save him.  But, of course, Shawn Doyle's character sent a hit squad or something after Holden, so I suspect there might be some tension between the two next week.

 

Speaking of tension, Holden and Amos continue to be the opposite of friends.  Normally, I would think this wouldn't end well for them, but I noticed that once the situation was resolved, Amos pretty much seemed to just forget everything.  Even Holden pointing a pistol at his head.  It's like he doesn't take anything Holden did personally.  Good thing Alex and Naomi got that safe open though, or there would have either been two more dead Martians or Holden would have actually pulled the trigger.

 

Miller's stuff kind of dragged, but he's now left the station and it sounds like he might be heading to the same place that Holden and the gang are going too, so that might get interesting.

 

Hey, Miller's buddy from that video message was Kevin Hanchard!  I was wondering when someone from Orphan Black was going to show up in this!  

 

Surprised they resisted the temptation to just called this episode "Donkey Balls."

[sjohnson]

Lost track of what Miller's doing. Somehow plot stuff is supposed to keep him in play despite getting fired. This is intrinsically unlikely, especially since his only option, the father, he deliberately burned. So I guess it's more magic service to the character. Surely the father already suspected that he was led to Miller as a way to block the investigation by putting it in the hands of an incompetent? I guess the call wasn't just burn his last bridge but to swear his undying love as articulately as possible for a true Man. 

 

If Holden really is heroically stubborn about his principles, as Avasarala seems to concluding, then he represents the best hope for reliable intel (and maybe even intervention) in this mess. The OPA and Mars Republic can't be trusted, but if Holden can, then relying on his testimony can be critical. Avasarala is right about that. 

 

Naomia being so chummy with a nihilist like Amos doesn't reflect well on her judgment, her character even, insofar as she can be said to have one. 

[Netfoot]

...and how awful they've made the Avasarala character?

 

She's little more than a single-note caricature.  Go anywhere, do anything, threaten/blackmail everyone into doing exactly what she wants...  She knows more people's skeletons than J. Edgar ever did!   

[Danny Franks]

Ah, so there was a clear reason for the scenes last week with the belter ship being boarded. To establish a hostile environment for the Roci, where the Martians are on high alert, which sets up all the drama for them in this episode.

 

The spy pissed me off, and I kind of wish they'd killed him as soon as they found him. That actor is great at being an irritating douche. They should have just let Alex figure it out on his own, which would have helped his character a bit. But if the guy gets back to a place where he can transmit, I guess Avasarala gets a load of new info on Holden and his crew.

 

Amos is kind of crazy, isn't he? The show is definitely establishing that as clearly as they possibly can. But it clearly comes from his messed up background, which they're hinting at quite effectively.

 

Holden and Naomi seem to have thawed the ice now, and their rapport is growing. The two actors play off one another quite nicely.

 

I liked meeting Holden's family. The dynamic is one that always intrigued me, all those parents for one child. I wish they'd shown more than just the birth mother. It's part of this world that should be explored, just like the Belters on Ceres. Different cultures. Avasarala's threat to them is very much in keeping with the way she's conducted herself. She's swimming in the dark, and needs to find answers. We've already seen that she'll do anything to get them.

 

Miller self-destructing was predictable. Dawes attempting to beat him down in order to pick him up was an interesting method of trying to recruit someone. It was never going to work. Dawes isn't as smart as he thinks. So now he's on his way to Eros as well. I think Octavia is probably lucky he wouldn't let her go with him.

 

I have to confess that I'm utterly baffled at people complaining about the sound mixing on this show. I can pick out every word, except for the occasional mutter by Avasarala or Miller. It's absolutely not an issue when I watch.

[marinw]

I for one appreciate the scenes on Earth. The parts we have seen such as New York and Montana look nice and habitable. And there are cool windmills. Looks like climate change is under control. Maybe in part because a lot of industry has been outsourced to the belt.

(Edited for punctuation.)

Edited January 21, 2016 by marinw

[Lion]

I thought that was pretty amazing. The visit to Montana was stunning.  I don't recall if they've given us an exact figure for the population of Earth, but there has been plenty of info to suggest that it's significant.  When one thinks of or mentions Montana, the mental image is of a sparsely populated, rugged, expansive place.  I found it eerie to see a somewhat densely populated once-middle-of-nowhere Montana.  This show can make one feel so claustrophobic.

 

I enjoyed the extra bits of background world building, about land and government and climate and energy and such.  I loved how sinister Holden's mom made that potato peeler look when she opened the door.  I think the stories from the two mothers puts a couple of characters into perhaps slightly different perspective, especially Holden.  Not that he was a mystery before or anything, just that his background starts adding layers to him.  When Holden held the gun to Amos' head, you knew he was going to be let off the hook and wouldn't need to truly decide whether or not to pull the trigger.  But there was plenty of dialogue and subtext that suggests Mr. Holden-Raised-as-A-Hero-Who-Never-Wins may be truly tested in the future.  

 

I enjoyed all of the crew scenes.  They keep layering and building these characters in such organic ways.  We get some more about Amos' past, or at least how his past has shaped him into this very amiable monster.  Naomi isn't just someone smart who knows how to keep a ship running, she's a damn genius.  I'm not quite sure what to make with Miller and Octavia.  Is she his ex, did they have a one night stand, were they professional partners, has she been secretly in love with him and only just now expressing it?  I think Thomas Jane has been fantastic in this role but I find that Miller always seems to lose his luster a bit when Octavia comes around.  Maybe it's because the scenes with Anderson Dawes are so great that others pale in comparison. Hope they continue to check in with Anderson Dawes, but I'm glad Miller is on to different pastures.  

 

Really curious about the spy.  He seemed concerned that they weren't heading to Eros immediately, where Errinwright had that black ops team waiting to take out Holden and the crew.  With advanced tech, military knowledge, and Naomi level tech smarts, this spy is more than just some dude paying off a debt. 

Edited January 21, 2016 by Lion

[wayne67]

After this episode I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to binge watch this when the season is over because I'm really not retaining any info on any of the characters week to week. I just don't care enough to remember any of their names. Which is probably a bad sign but oh well. Hopefully this show will seem like a masterpiece in retrospect instead of the limp noodle it seems to be now (IMO). 

[Haleth]

Without knowing what the title of the episode was I thought it was a nice touch to show a number of enormous windmills at the Holden family homestead.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Haleth

[sjohnson]

The old BattleStar Galactica BS about how it's really drama when supposed allies point guns at each other, then don't shoot and still remain allies instead of becoming enemies for life, is even lamer now than it was then. So not only was the supposed big dramatic choice of the episode was kind of not. For what it's worth, I think the wavering gun showed Holden couldn't shoot first. 

 

But the backstory on Holden was nice, and set up Avasarala to believe/trust/rely on Holden down the line. Still, I have lost track of what Miller thinks he's doing, or what he thinks he can accomplish doing it. Anderson Dawes is nicely menacing but since he's supposed to be doing a recruitment speech that fails big time as far as I'm concerned. 

 

I guess you could think the episode was stuck in a Holden-pattern?

[that one guy]

Looks like climate change is under control.

 

Except for that thing where the ocean level has risen so much that the Statue of Liberty would be underwater without those retaining walls. I liked Francis Fisher. I just wish we'd had more backstory on Holden earlier. It's hard to watch a show where you don't know a lot about the characters, no matter how cool the world building is. 

 

I wondered why, if the plan was to pose as Martian military, they didn't all dress up in the Martian battle gear that was seen conveniently hanging up by the airlock. The one guy used to be Martian military, they should have tried bullshit if the codes didn't work, or stalled in uniform to give the crew upstairs a few more minutes to try the code.

 

Plans in order:

1. get the codes

2. put on Martian uniforms and fake it

3. tell the truth

4. shoot people

 

#4 should be a last resort, not Plan B because it probably ends in the Rocinate being blown out of the sky and everyone dying. Why that is preferable to surrender beats the hell out of me.

[Lion]

 

 

I wondered why, if the plan was to pose as Martian military, they didn't all dress up in the Martian battle gear that was seen conveniently hanging up by the airlock. The one guy used to be Martian military, they should have tried bullshit if the codes didn't work, or stalled in uniform to give the crew upstairs a few more minutes to try the code.

 

Plans in order:

1. get the codes

2. put on Martian uniforms and fake it

3. tell the truth

4. shoot people

 

#4 should be a last resort, not Plan B because it probably ends in the Rocinate being blown out of the sky and everyone dying. Why that is preferable to surrender beats the hell out of me.

*smacks head* #4 was the last resort....actually, it wasn't even on the table for anyone but Amos.  Like, the entire crew was working on getting the codes and bullshitting their way and then resigning themselves to being boarded.  Amos was the one and only one who went off on to #4.  Maybe you missed the part where Holden was holding a gun to his head, or where Alex was giving Amos some serious side eye or where Naomi was tasked with getting Amos back under control.  Whether or not Holden could have brought himself to pull the trigger doesn't really matter, but the point is that it was a perfectly clear that shooting them wasn't an option. 

[Danny Franks]

The old BattleStar Galactica BS about how it's really drama when supposed allies point guns at each other, then don't shoot and still remain allies instead of becoming enemies for life, is even lamer now than it was then. So not only was the supposed big dramatic choice of the episode was kind of not. For what it's worth, I think the wavering gun showed Holden couldn't shoot first. 

 

Holden absolutely wouldn't have shot first, I'm sure of that. They're using moments like that to establish character and it worked well. Holden is a good man, and not one given to resorting to violence, and Amos knows that about him. Despite his own bravado, I'm sure Amos knew Holden wasn't a guy who would shoot his shipmate in the back of the head.

 

And regarding the aftermath of it, Holden is quite prepared to see Amos as an enemy, as his outburst to Naomi showed. He wants Amos off the ship because he sees him as dangerous, unstable and a threat to them all. Amos, for his part, seems to be able to switch off emotions and just live in the moment. He doesn't hold a grudge against Holden for pulling a gun on him, because it's something that happened and it's over. The guy is scarily disconnected from the normal emotional spectrum.

 

As for their options regarding the Martian patrol, I thought it was clearly established that they were limited. They couldn't fake it without those codes, because the Martians were on high alert and suspicious of everything. They'd never buy a pretence of being a black ops team without the right identifiers. And that's not book knowledge, because this scene didn't happen in the book.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Danny Franks

[marinw]

Except for that thing where the ocean level has risen so much that the Statue of Liberty would be underwater without those retaining walls.

 

 

Cool! Was that in the shots of New York with the aquarium tunnel thing? I was too entranced with the sight of all the giant buildings that towered over the new (to us) World Trade Centre. As has already been said, Earth is populated.

[that one guy]

 

Cool! Was that in the shots of New York with the aquarium tunnel thing?

It was in the first episode, I think. Yes, it was an establishing shot of New York. You can see it here: http://tve-static-syfy.nbcuni.com/prod/image/666/483/150711_2880297_The_Expanse__What_s_It_About__1500x844_482810435648.jpg

[marinw]

Oh that's what that is. Thank you.

[WearyTraveler]

I've also found that I'm having trouble with some of the actors' enunciation. Miller, Holden, Amos, they all almost mumble some of their lines.

I think this series is OK, but I will admit I'm having trouble connecting with the characters. I think I might give the books a try and see if that helps me get into the show more. With Game of Thrones I saw the first season first and found it so compelling, I just had to read the books. With this one I can see that it's a complex, layered world, but it's still not really grabbing me.

Someone mentioned that the scene with the Martians boarding wasn't in the books, and I find that really curious, as I thought the whole thing seemed like a delaying tactic. I think once they find the girl in the spaceship a bunch of big reveals are going to take place, so, that felt like a delaying tactic. Now that I know it wasn't in the books, it feels even more so.

I commend these writers for trying, adapting long written works into film/TV is not easy and it won't be perfect. GoT generally does a good job, but they have also had big fails.

I don't know what it is for me. Maybe it's the pacing, we start getting to know our characters and they are suddenly dumped into this massive, sinister secret plot and now everything they do before they get the answers just feels like padding. I wish we had spent more time on set up without the intrigue. I mean, let's be honest here, there are only two possibilities for the big bad that make any sense, once you rule out that it wasn't the Martians, the Earthers or OPA: It's either a fourth race bent upon conquering this part of the galaxy or some entity that benefits from a war (such as a business, that's what happens in the real world, even the show Sherlock had that as a case this week). I could be wrong, I don't know, because I didn't even know these books existed until this show aired, but I really can't think of any other options that would fit this universe they have presented us.

Maybe if they had spent more time ruling out the Martians, the Earthers and OPA, we could have had some more characters moments. They are so few, as it is. We went really fast from a ship in space to people trying to kill everyone and starting a war, and now it feels like we have come to a screeching halt on that front and are taking side roads to get to our destination.

I definitely don't hate it, but I wish I'd love it more.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Dougal
Tagged some slightly-too-detailed book discussion.

[supposebly]

I'm still struggling to connect with most characters but I do like Amos a lot at this point. Somewhat psychopathic, incredibly pragmatic and does not hold grudges. I find that interesting.

He and I knew that Holden wasn't gong to shoot him, so those empty threats were quite funny. And Holden, don't call him an animal for trying to do what's necessary. Just because some Martians helped you out, doesn't mean the next one won't put you in a cell and torture you. Just because you want to be a hero doesn't mean everyone else does and you might need someone to do the dirty work you're not ready or willing to do.

 

Three more to go. It's not so bad. Oh, to add to the How much critique is too much? discussion. I'm not one to waste my time with hate-watching a show, there is way too much good TV out there these days that I barely manage to watch, so I wouldn't watch it if I weren't interested. I'm just rather disappointed that the show didn't live up to the hype or my expectations. I will finish, although I might not continue unless I really have nothing else on my list once it returns.

 

 

I definitely don't hate it, but I wish I'd love it more.

 

Pretty much my sentiments too.

Edited January 23, 2016 by supposebly

[mjc570]

I've got to admit that I like it a lot, much more than I thought I would.  I liked the books, and just finished the most recent (Nemesis Games), which filled in a lot of the background for various characters.  I think the show's done a good job of making it easy to pick up the characters and plot so far.  I liked the Montana visit, mainly for (1) Frances Fisher (and in the same episode as Kurtwood Smith!); and (2) the dramatic snow shots of Avasarala in her red coat.  I hope they tie Miller/Julie to the Holden plot soon. 

[gibasi]

 

 I definitely don't hate it, but I wish I'd love it more.

That describes my sentiments as well.  And like Wayne67 I don't remember anyone's names from one week to the next.  

 

I don't read much science fiction anymore and am not familiar with the books.  But I don't think I would like the books.  I prefer a tighter focus in my books and I have to say I wish this had a tighter focus.  When we jump from one place to the other and it never ties together...it just bothers me.  And I am not as interested in the world on Earth because I haven't seen it as being that important to the story.  Now I get it a little more. Watching for the first time with closed captions definitely helped!  I agree with the mumbling.  So many shows have actors who do that now.   And I've finally figured out who Holden is.  I need Miller's (yay I know his name!) story and Holden's to intersect.

[cynic]

I enjoyed much of this episode. The threat of being boarded was nicely tense. I especially enjoyed how awesome Naomi continues to be with her quick thinking and technical skills. Alex has also really grown on me with his personality. His quick aw, screw it expression when trying to think of a way to incorporate the code phrases into casual speech make me lol. I did roll my eyes a bit that the passwords were actually printed on (really fancy) paper. Even my lame, not secretive at all job uses rolling password generators.

 

I wasn't a fan of the confrontation between Holden and Amos, mostly because I'm really starting to dislike Amos. It'll be interesting to see where they go from here with him, but I think they've made him a little too psycho. It's unpleasant to watch for me. 

 

I loved the insight into Holden's character with the farm scenes. Mother (Elise?) seems like she would raise a strong child. It bodes well for Holden. I really enjoyed Avasarala sparring with her initially and then coming to an understanding. They played off each other really well. Also, it cracks me up that apparently that's the outfit and jewelry she thinks is perfect for trudging through the snow. 

 

They're losing me a bit with Miller. I get his emotional journey and all, but it's just not as interesting to me as the Roci crew. Also, I was hoping there would be a little bit more development with the Octavia character. It seems like she basically existed to look sad and disappointed in him. 

[Trisan]

I really dislike (or more likely mistrust) Amos as well ! I dont mean that I dont enjoy the character, cause I'm not, he's really well written, but as a human being, I really dislike him ! 

 

I havent read the books (yet) so  I dont know if that will change but I'm curious to see him evolve ! As for Alex, yeah, I'm a big fan of the character and the way the actor portrays him ! 

[Macbeth]

I really like this episode too.   Holden and his crew is great too watch.  I actually liked the stand off between Amos and Holden only because Amos was so happy the Martians were fooled into backing down.  He generally growls at anything Holden does so that was unexpected. We all knew Holden wouldn't shoot - so it was like Holden wasn't even a factor in  Amos' mind.

 

The only appealing things (IMO) in Miller's storyline we loose this week: 1.  Jared Harris.  2. His partner that was trying to assimilate. 3.  His apartment area that had a great deal of artificial sunlight  - much needed in such a darkly-lit series.

 

I liked the exchange in Montana between Holden's mom and Avasarala finally showing some vulnerability.   Also -beautiful shot of Avasarala trudging through the snow in red. 

 

Only complaint from me, besides Miller's storyline which is a given for me, is no Chad Coleman this week.

[Vermicious Knid]

And I am not as interested in the world on Earth because I haven't seen it as being that important to the story.

 

And you're exactly right, because there is no Earth-based story at all in the first book. It's Miller and Holden's POVs only. The writers have shoe-horned it into the series, perhaps under the belief that viewers wouldn't care to watch a plot that takes place entirely in the Belt. Producer interference? What really bugs me is that Chrisjen is not even remotely an Indian name and the book authors are to blame for that one.

[Lion]

And you're exactly right, because there is no Earth-based story at all in the first book. It's Miller and Holden's POVs only. The writers have shoe-horned it into the series, perhaps under the belief that viewers wouldn't care to watch a plot that takes place entirely in the Belt. Producer interference? What really bugs me is that Chrisjen is not even remotely an Indian name and the book authors are to blame for that one.

I think it probably has to do with the fact that telling the Earth part of the story on screen was naturally going to require different needs than telling it in the book.  I doubt it was producer interference as on a different site the James SA Corey duo discussed their involvement in creating and writing the show and they seemed to be pretty active in creating the Earth part of the story.  Considering all of the Syfy shows that have taken place off Earth, including several currently airing, it seems obvious that it wasn't a fear that viewers wouldn't like only non-Earth views.  I think it's likely that viewers would have objected to all the exposition necessary to discuss the Mars/Earth views.  I mean shit, it starts to get boring when Miller is using his 3d hologram to tell us exactly what's going on with ship movements and ships blowing up in the belt, and even with him telling us exactly, viewers can't seem to follow it. Try to imagine someone saying Earth this or Earth that, you'd have these same viewers crying because they aren't getting that viewpoint or that it's only coming through exposition. 

 

I don't think they claimed Crisjen was an Indian name.  Sort of like how Alex isn't exactly an Indian name or

Bobbie Draper isn't a Polynesian name

or any number of names in the series don't really have origins in the the place from which the character has ethnic origins.  The Earth is under one government.  Borders don't exist in the same way.  

[Netfoot]

I don't think they claimed Crisjen was an Indian name.  [...]  The Earth is under one government.  Borders don't exist in the same way.  

 

I could name at least one classic author who liked to give character unusual (culturally) names.  Like maybe a street kid from Nairobi named Hirohito MacGreggor.  

[Matt K]

I have to say Amos is fast becoming my favorite character.  Although it also helps that the character is a home town boy (I'm also from Baltimore).  Loved that they name checked Baltimore even it having to do with Amos's checkered past.

[RustbeltWriter]

This is the weirdest show. I really like it but it's more because of the characters and the world building than the plot. I'm having trouble keeping the various plotlines together in my head and I think it's because so many things take up so much time in these episodes. Boarding the Rocinante took for-freaking-ever and after a while I couldn't even remember why they were trying to get to Eros. Maybe I'll rewatch the series and see if things make more sense once I've finished it.

[SmithW6079]

This is the weirdest show. I really like it but it's more because of the characters and the world building than the plot. I'm having trouble keeping the various plotlines together in my head and I think it's because so many things take up so much time in these episodes. Boarding the Rocinante took for-freaking-ever and after a while I couldn't even remember why they were trying to get to Eros. Maybe I'll rewatch the series and see if things make more sense once I've finished it.

Yes, I'm fascinated by the world building and humanity's expansion into the solar system. I'm having a hard time with the plots.

[lion10]

Loved this quote because it sums up Amos' character so well:  "Guys like you and me, we end up dead, doesn't really mean anything, or we happen to live through it, that doesn't really mean anything either."

[Hecate7]

On 1/20/2016 at 2:59 PM, Danny Franks said:

I have to confess that I'm utterly baffled at people complaining about the sound mixing on this show. I can pick out every word, except for the occasional mutter by Avasarala or Miller. It's absolutely not an issue when I watch.

It's an issue because I don't want to "pick out" every word. I want to hear it without having to strain, and I am baffled at things like having what sounds like a swimming pool full of teens in the background during a quiet, tense, private scene with Miller and Octavia that distracted so much from the conversation that for a second I almost asked the neighbors to keep it down before I realized that it was part of the show. However "natural" it sounds, if it interferes with the storytelling it's not good sound. I also don't want to lose "the occasional mutter," because actors are often directed on film to go quieter when what they have to say is more important. So yeah, the sound is godawful from where I'm sitting. When you wish you could just read what they're saying instead of having to crane to listen, and when your shoulders are tired by the end of the show, that's not good sound. Good sound is when you don't have to work at understanding what the actors are saying, and you don't have to "pick out" the words from the ambient noise.

[Neurochick]

On September 30, 2016 at 1:44 AM, Hecate7 said:

It's an issue because I don't want to "pick out" every word. I want to hear it without having to strain, and I am baffled at things like having what sounds like a swimming pool full of teens in the background during a quiet, tense, private scene with Miller and Octavia that distracted so much from the conversation that for a second I almost asked the neighbors to keep it down before I realized that it was part of the show. However "natural" it sounds, if it interferes with the storytelling it's not good sound. I also don't want to lose "the occasional mutter," because actors are often directed on film to go quieter when what they have to say is more important. So yeah, the sound is godawful from where I'm sitting. When you wish you could just read what they're saying instead of having to crane to listen, and when your shoulders are tired by the end of the show, that's not good sound. Good sound is when you don't have to work at understanding what the actors are saying, and you don't have to "pick out" the words from the ambient noise.

I'm confused because I don't have a problem with the sound either.  But maybe that's because I'm watching it on my computer.

[wanderingstar]

Continuing with the pre-season 4 re-watch.

I really loved the scenes with Avasarala and Holden's mother (Mother Elise). Shohreh Aghdashloo was great as always, and Frances Fisher also was wonderful. These scenes - coupled with his explanation to the Martian interrogator about not wanting to be the boot on the neck of the Belt - really do give us insight into Holden and what drives some of his decisions.

When Amos turned to Holden and said "Well, that worked out" and just went off like he didn't just have a gun pointed at his head, I was like "Never change, Amos." I'd love to get the backstory on how he and Naomi connected/became BFFs.

Miller's character is still hard to get into at this point. His motivation for the obsession with Julie has never been clear to me (and it didn't get clearer when I read the books either). The more I think about it, the more I think of Miller as the one of audience's windows into this world. Through him, we learn about life in places like Ceres and how Earth, Mars and the Belt relate to each other.

I don't remember him registering that much with me on my first watch, but Elias Toufexis is actually really great as Kenzo. He nails the slipperiness of this shady spy character.

Naomi continues to be awesome, and her and Alex saving the day at the last minute was great!

[Holmbo]

On 11/29/2019 at 5:36 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

I really loved the scenes with Avasarala and Holden's mother (Mother Elise). Shohreh Aghdashloo was great as always, and Frances Fisher also was wonderful. These scenes - coupled with his explanation to the Martian interrogator about not wanting to be the boot on the neck of the Belt - really do give us insight into Holden and what drives some of his decisions.

It also gives nice characterization to Avasarala. Her drive to try to understand the motivations of everyone is what makes her such an effective politician.

When Amos turned to Holden and said "Well, that worked out" and just went off like he didn't just have a gun pointed at his head, I was like "Never change, Amos." I'd love to get the backstory on how he and Naomi connected/became BFFs.

Agreed! Gives us flashbacks. Or actually it might work better as some summed up exposition of by one of them.

Miller's character is still hard to get into at this point. His motivation for the obsession with Julie has never been clear to me (and it didn't get clearer when I read the books either). The more I think about it, the more I think of Miller as the one of audience's windows into this world. Through him, we learn about life in places like Ceres and how Earth, Mars and the Belt relate to each other.

I also had troubble understanding Miller's obsession. But one person on this board posted something about how they thought it was tied to rebelling against expectations. That fits for me. He saw her going against an easy set path and it made him think he could do something different too.

I don't remember him registering that much with me on my first watch, but Elias Toufexis is actually really great as Kenzo. He nails the slipperiness of this shady spy character.

I dislike Kenzo so much! And not in a love to hate way either. I agree it's a great performance.

[Haleth]

I'm doing a quarantine rewatch, especially because I now have a firestick and can watch it on a big tv instead of a monitor.  I loved this episode and still covet that red/orange outfit that Avasarala is wearing. 

One thing jumped out at me.  When Holden is holding a gun to Amos's head, he says "You are not that guy!" which of course foreshadows the scene in the next season when Amos says, "I AM that guy."  My favorite Amos moment.

[MissLucas]

On 5/9/2020 at 1:47 PM, Haleth said:

 I loved this episode and still covet that red/orange outfit that Avasarala is wearing. 

Her walking through the snow in that bad-ass cape as if she was just coming from the set of GoT in a (justified) huff was such a fantastic visual. 

Great catch with that line about not being the guy!

On 5/9/2020 at 1:47 PM, Haleth said:

 I loved this episode and still covet that red/orange outfit that Avasarala is wearing. 

Her walking through the snow in that bad-ass cape as if she was just coming from the set of GoT in a (justified) huff was such a fantastic visual. 

Great catch with that line about not being the guy!

Edited May 11, 2020 by MissLucas

[cleo]

Watching this for the first time, completely unspoiled. I find Holden really irritating and unlikable. I guess he's supposed to be the principled hero? Honestly he seems kind of dumb. Like being blinded by some principle or another isn't always a good thing.

Much prefer Amos.

Edited November 5, 2021 by cleo

[Melina22]

On 11/4/2021 at 7:48 PM, cleo said:

Watching this for the first time, completely unspoiled.

Finally, I'm not the only one coming to the party super late. 😁

[cleo]

@Melina22 lol it was on my list for a long time lol. What ep are you on?

I just watched 1.08. Really enjoying the show! Haven't gotten into sci-fi since BSG.

Edited November 7, 2021 by cleo

[Melina22]

I just finished this one. I'm totally loving it after reading a recommendation about it over on the Foundation thread. Foundation is okay but like you, this is the first Sci-Fi series I've truly gotten into since my all time favourite BSG ended. 

[marinw]

Happy to have a little part in introducing you to this show @Melina22😊

[Melina22]

40 minutes ago, marinw said:

Happy to have a little part in introducing you to this show @Melina22😊

A very big part! 😊