S01.E03: Counting One More

[leighroda]

@doodlebug thanks to your in depth birth description I was able to classify the time it took me to read this thread as "studying" (I take the nclex in a couple weeks).

I haven't watched the episode I read this and feel like I got the jist of it. I think Michelle sounded weird in the previews of the 911 call, it annoys me that she refers to Jessa as "mother"... Idk I know lots don't agree but it just seemed weirdly forced to me.

In no way shape or form do I want to see a birth go wrong for any of them (well more wrong than Izzy and Spurg) I fear that is what will have to happen for them to decide on hospital births, they seem to think it's a jewel in their crown to have a minimally assisted birth. I don't know what I expect from a family that seems themselves professional after watching any task/job be done...but I hope if they keep having kids that they will use proper hospitals/doctors. I hadn't really thought about the fact that Jessa may have had little/no prenatal care... But that does seem to be the case. I know for sure doctors have a general idea on baby size, and I think most certified midwives keep tabs on the babies estimated size... So it seems odd that Jessa kept saying she thinks she is going to have a big baby...idk.

I've been saying since they announced counting on that I suspected this would be turned into a series... God I hope I'm wrong.

[kokapetl]

TLC edited this episode in Australia. Jessa's bloody mess & Quincy's blurred out baby bits scene was cut out, it got a PG rating. It probably would've gotten an M rating uncut. I'm surprised they went to the trouble, these 3 specials aren't unlikely to be repeated ad nauseam. The first special seems to have been created solely for TLC to say "we feel that since we've addressed The Situation™, we can run Approx 20 Kids & Counting: Special Edition, where Josh has been completely digitally erased."

Edited January 1, 2016 by Kokapetl

[becca3891]

totally agree about the producer's idea - had to be arranged, staged, etc.  And maybe filmed at a low occupancy time so as not to inconvenience regular patrons.  

Definitely. Often, they even seem to rent out entire places like that so as to avoid the problem of gawkers altogether. Plus, they can then avoid being defrauded by worldly people.

 

So, has JD become a lot more articulate suddenly, or is it just that he rarely spoke before and he looks like such a doofus that I made assumptions about him?

Let's put it this way -- JD comes across like a college professor compared to Ben, in my opinion! That said, he's still a Duggar and I think that like all of them, he suffers from a bad case of sheltered ignorance, but I've always found him very likeable compared to Josh. I think most of us disliked Josh more than any of the boys long before the 2015 news reports. He was named Smuggar for good reason! JD, though, just seems like a nicer person. (Still a bit doofus-y, though, lol.)

[GeeGolly]

Definitely. Often, they even seem to rent out entire places like that so as to avoid the problem of gawkers altogether. Plus, they can then avoid being defrauded by worldly people.

 

Let's put it this way -- JD comes across like a college professor compared to Ben, in my opinion! That said, he's still a Duggar and I think that like all of them, he suffers from a bad case of sheltered ignorance, but I've always found him very likeable compared to Josh. I think most of us disliked Josh more than any of the boys long before the 2015 news reports. He was named Smuggar for good reason! JD, though, just seems like a nicer person. (Still a bit doofus-y, though, lol.)

My first memory of JD was when he was messing with the 'just married' cars. For both Anna & Josh and then a Bates couple I believe. His behavior seemed beyond immature and over the top. Other than that he never really said much. So maybe we all got the wrong impression of this oft ignored second born son. Who new that JD would turn out to be the Duggar gem in the rough.

[becca3891]

I finally broke down and finished the last episode. I am curious about Jessa and Ben's adoption plans as they relate to the agency's rule that you have to wait until your baby is 9 months. Then on that ridiculous "Southern Women" talk show or whatever it was called, didn't Jessa actually say "We're not going to have 19 biological kids?" It would appear that some form of birth control may be planned. Otherwise, how would they ever adopt? MEchelle was pretty much always pregnant again by the time a baby reached 9 months.

 

I must reluctantly applaud them, though, for practicing what they preach. Most rabid anti-choicers do absolutely nothing about the fact that even with legalized abortion, the foster system is already overflowing with unwanted children. That problem could be solved if every fundy screaming about the sanctity of life actually cared about the life of an unwanted child AFTER birth. But most are hypocrites.

 

I was struck by how much Jessa clearly disliked being pregnant. Her obsession with her weight was troubling, though. We seem to be seeing more and more evidence of unhealthy obsessions with thinness among the older girls. I know our society is no help in that regard, but we can't forget that thinness is also an obsession of Gothard's . I'll never forget how one of his victims described how, while she was suffering from anorexia, Bill took her aside and whispered in her ear that he was proud of her "discipline of figure." Horrifying.

[Oldernowiser]

I'll applaud them when they do something about adoption that involves more than just yakking about it to look good.

Talk is cheap and these people are cheaper than most on about six different levels.

[Barb23]

My first memory of JD was when he was messing with the 'just married' cars. For both Anna & Josh and then a Bates couple I believe. His behavior seemed beyond immature and over the top. Other than that he never really said much. So maybe we all got the wrong impression of this oft ignored second born son. Who new that JD would turn out to be the Duggar gem in the rough.

I agree. I really snarked on him when he accompanied Boob, Derick & Ben on their outside adventure before the marriages. Looking back now, you can tell he was out of his element & didn't want to be there & had to follow JB's lines. He can't be too dumb as he managed to get a small plane pilot's license. (Which has come in handy piloting Boob Force One, as another poster renamed their plane on another thread. Love it.)

[bigskygirl]

To be honest about it, if I was getting on a plane and saw JD was the pilot, I would rather walk, take a bus or train, or even hitchhike. In my opinion, I think JB is trying to groom JD to be the next great Duggar son catch especially since the Josh scandals one and two hit the fan. He may be able to pilot a plane, but he is still being controlled by daddy dearest. They can edit or try to make JD look or sound smart and a great catch, but once again, you can take him away from the Duggars, but you cannot take the Duggar out of him. If it quacks like a Duggar and walks like a Duggar... 

[queenanne]

I finally broke down and finished the last episode. I am curious about Jessa and Ben's adoption plans as they relate to the agency's rule that you have to wait until your baby is 9 months. Then on that ridiculous "Southern Women" talk show or whatever it was called, didn't Jessa actually say "We're not going to have 19 biological kids?" It would appear that some form of birth control may be planned. Otherwise, how would they ever adopt? MEchelle was pretty much always pregnant again by the time a baby reached 9 months.

 

I must reluctantly applaud them, though, for practicing what they preach. Most rabid anti-choicers do absolutely nothing about the fact that even with legalized abortion, the foster system is already overflowing with unwanted children. That problem could be solved if every fundy screaming about the sanctity of life actually cared about the life of an unwanted child AFTER birth. But most are hypocrites.

 

I was struck by how much Jessa clearly disliked being pregnant. Her obsession with her weight was troubling, though. We seem to be seeing more and more evidence of unhealthy obsessions with thinness among the older girls. I know our society is no help in that regard, but we can't forget that thinness is also an obsession of Gothard's . I'll never forget how one of his victims described how, while she was suffering from anorexia, Bill took her aside and whispered in her ear that he was proud of her "discipline of figure." Horrifying.

Maybe Jessa has done some simple logic and realized that you probably won't have 19 bio kids, if you don't game the system by tracking your fertility charts.

[CofCinci]

Maybe Jessa has done some simple logic and realized that you probably won't have 19 bio kids, if you don't game the system by tracking your fertility charts.

Or Ben is cool with pulling out.

[Wellfleet]

I must reluctantly applaud them, though, for practicing what they preach. Most rabid anti-choicers do absolutely nothing about the fact that even with legalized abortion, the foster system is already overflowing with unwanted children. That problem could be solved if every fundy screaming about the sanctity of life actually cared about the life of an unwanted child AFTER birth. But most are hypocrites.

 

Agree - except that in the Duggars' case, the adoption talk is just that - all talk. I don't really believe any Duggars truly intend to adopt any child - from anywhere - by any method - legal or "under the table." Only Josh actually being cured through his stint at Jesus Jail would surprise me more.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Wellfleet

[Loves2Dance]

So, has JD become a lot more articulate suddenly, or is it just that he rarely spoke before and he looks like such a doofus that I made assumptions about him?

 

Probably a bit of both, but JD has a real job and interacts with people outside of his family now, because of said job, so I think that has also helped his overall maturity and articulation. He has always been the 'shy brother' in my eyes, especially behind the disgustingly-slimy-used car salesman brother, Josh---now he's been thrown into the head spot and he seems to be adjusting to it okay. He really did get beat with the ugly stick, but he doesn't have the same slimy, greasy feeling as his brother so I stomach him much better. 

[Loves2Dance]

To be honest about it, if I was getting on a plane and saw JD was the pilot, I would rather walk, take a bus or train, or even hitchhike. In my opinion, I think JB is trying to groom JD to be the next great Duggar son catch especially since the Josh scandals one and two hit the fan. He may be able to pilot a plane, but he is still being controlled by daddy dearest. They can edit or try to make JD look or sound smart and a great catch, but once again, you can take him away from the Duggars, but you cannot take the Duggar out of him. If it quacks like a Duggar and walks like a Duggar... 

I agree with you on the 'great Duggar catch' angle. I can already see the episode now, he takes a girl on a romantic plane ride with Boob in the back, cue the landing where a picnic is waiting (put together, of course, by the J'Slaves), and then the sun goes down, a gazebo with lights just happens to be around the corner and bam---proposal episode! 

 

I don't think JD would be the most horrible Duggar catch, but because he comes with the family---I'd have to pass on that one. 

[bigskygirl]

The only people JD probably interacts outside of his family and religion are people related to his volunteer jobs or his construction work. I would not be surprise if he is facing some hostility from his fellow law enforcement personnel and the higher rank personnel since the first scandal came since daddy threaten to sue the department, and his brother's actions aka scandals would not be helping him either. Yes, he may pull someone over, serve papers in relations to evictions or being sued, but I seriously doubt he is really getting his hands dirty since the meat of law enforcement work requires good people and communications skills which. lets face it, none of the Duggars have these type of skills. Sadly, none of the Duggar males have overall maturity and could articulate well outside their little piece of the world. The embarrassing episode where JB went on a ride along with JD definitely proves this big time. A few minutes of saying my brother is a you know what because he cheated on his wife and not the fact he molested five young girls speaks volumes about the way JD feels about females in general. A normal guy would be upset over the fact his brother molested young girls including two sisters. They probably would not blame it on evilness and would want to help their sisters instead of blaming the victims and the Devil. JD is probably more angry over the fact Josh made him and the family look bad instead of looking at the whole picture.

[Muffyn]

Or Ben is cool with pulling out.

Or Ben is too stupid and uninformed to understand that pulling out would reduce the likelihood of pregnancy.  Maybe Jessa will pull the "going on the pill for her skin" excuse.  

[drafan]

To be honest about it, if I was getting on a plane and saw JD was the pilot, I would rather walk, take a bus or train, or even hitchhike. In my opinion, I think JB is trying to groom JD to be the next great Duggar son catch especially since the Josh scandals one and two hit the fan. He may be able to pilot a plane, but he is still being controlled by daddy dearest. They can edit or try to make JD look or sound smart and a great catch, but once again, you can take him away from the Duggars, but you cannot take the Duggar out of him. If it quacks like a Duggar and walks like a Duggar... 

 

I agree with all of the above...I would be in a dead run. A home-schooled by Mullet 26-year-old-virgin afraid-of-a-zipline slack-jawed Opie Taylor-level practical joker doofus pray-to-Jesus-in-a storm pilot??? No thanks.

 

JB better start a new marketing plan for both Jana and JD.....they're gonna be a harder sell as time goes by.

[Almost 3000]

I agree with all of the above...I would be in a dead run. A home-schooled by Mullet 26-year-old-virgin afraid-of-a-zipline slack-jawed Opie Taylor-level practical joker doofus pray-to-Jesus-in-a storm pilot??? No thanks.

 

JB better start a new marketing plan for both Jana and JD.....they're gonna be a harder sell as time goes by.

Hey, don't insult Opie.

[JennyMominFL]

I'm guessing Paris street art. She wore that jacket a lot on the honeymoon.

I'm guessing they got it done in Montmartre.. It looks like the style I see there.

[Almost 3000]

If I had my portrait done in Paris that's pretty much what I would expect to get and I would think it was all in good fun. Now I can snark big time on them getting to go Paris in the first place.

[SomePity1066]

I agree with all of the above...I would be in a dead run. A home-schooled by Mullet 26-year-old-virgin afraid-of-a-zipline slack-jawed Opie Taylor-level practical joker doofus pray-to-Jesus-in-a storm pilot??? No thanks.

That. Was. EPIC. 

 

I purposed to say it all in one breath and became light-headed as a result but it was worth it. 

 

I'll give the guy his props for the pilot's license (see what I did there ?) but otherwise I'd thought of him as just another piece of bland furniture in the Duggar household - just a big, dull dud.

 

But after the special when he spoke about Josh being the older brother/role model/person to look up to and how that was all dashed with the Ashley Madison thing - enough so that he was speaking out for the first time in probably his entire life - it made me think that here was yet another Duggar going on record that the molestation of his sisters was just old news that had been forgotten and everything was peachy-fucking-keen until the cheating thing hit, and THEN it was a big deal.

 

He did say, to be fair, that it took a while for him to trust Josh again after his "adolescent shenanigans", but if that had been me, well - I would have had one eye open at all times when it came to Josh, and there would have been no instance for the rest of my life that I could have looked at him and not thought "There's my brother the child molester".  JD seems to have caved as easily as the rest of the family to maintain the "just smile and wave" outlook on life while ignoring the monster within.

[SomePity1066]

It's only half caricature, which is odd - Ben is the Pretty, Pretty Princess and looks like he was drawn by someone who went to the School of Realistic Justin Bieber FanPics, but Jessa is in full-on Jay Leno mode with the distortion and exaggeration of a traditional caricature. 

 

My theory is that the artist either lost their buzz halfway through the portrait, or acquired one at that same point. Either way it's freaking hilarious... ;)

[toodles]

I'm aging myself, but that picture looks like a Mad Magazine cartoon.

[Sew Sumi]

Don't forget, Jessa's chin was THAT pronounced around her wedding what with the severe weight loss. Some of the profile wedding shots of her are flat out SCARY.

[Barb23]

I was reading another Duggar blog & came across a good post. The poster wanted to know why did Cathy accompany the Dillards to CA being not that far out from completing chemo? Why subject herself to catching something when her immune system is still recovering? One bite of a bad avocado or a swallow of bad water could really do her in. The poster also questioned what kind of medical facilities do they have there if she did get sick or if something happened in relation to the cancer?

[BitterApple]

Barb23, I was thinking the same thing. Cathy was still painfully thin and frail looking when they left for CA. My guess is she was invited because Jill needed a nanny and she accepted because it was one of the few opportunities she had to spend time with Derick and Izzy. The way Cathy was crying when she had to leave leads me to believe she's not as active in her grandson's life as she would like to be.

[JenCarroll]

My first memory of JD was when he was messing with the 'just married' cars. For both Anna & Josh and then a Bates couple I believe. His behavior seemed beyond immature and over the top. Other than that he never really said much. So maybe we all got the wrong impression of this oft ignored second born son. Who new that JD would turn out to be the Duggar gem in the rough.

The very, very rough.

[GeeGolly]

The very, very rough.

True, and maybe a manufactured gem at that.

[Clemgo3165]

Barb23, I was thinking the same thing. Cathy was still painfully thin and frail looking when they left for CA. My guess is she was invited because Jill needed a nanny and she accepted because it was one of the few opportunities she had to spend time with Derick and Izzy. The way Cathy was crying when she had to leave leads me to believe she's not as active in her grandson's life as she would like to be.

I interpreted it as a Mother leaving her son and grandson knowing she won't be able to see them for the better part of a year. Frankly, I think she's more involved than Jill's parents are and is quite active in his life. Izzy will change so much in the next 8-9 months, it'd be hard to be away from him.

[JenCarroll]

I interpreted it as a Mother leaving her son and grandson knowing she won't be able to see them for the better part of a year. Frankly, I think she's more involved than Jill's parents are and is quite active in his life. Izzy will change so much in the next 8-9 months, it'd be hard to be away from him.

Fortunately for Cathy, there's no way in hell that Jill and Derick will actually stay there for eight or nine months without discovering an urgent need to return to Arkansas, at least temporarily. Eight or nine weeks, I give it.

[GeeGolly]

Fortunately for Cathy, there's no way in hell that Jill and Derick will actually stay there for eight or nine months without discovering an urgent need to return to Arkansas, at least temporarily. Eight or nine weeks, I give it.

And maybe after seeing her "only 3rd blood relative" wrapped tight like a burrito she will fly back and save him.

[JenCarroll]

 The only minor I remember with any kind of speaking part was Jordyn's gender announcement. And she only got that due to "buddy" status with her really shitty sister mom.

Well hey, they remembered Jordyn exists( and who her buddy was), which is more than I generally expect from them.

[dillpickles]

I was struck by how much Jessa clearly disliked being pregnant. Her obsession with her weight was troubling, though. We seem to be seeing more and more evidence of unhealthy obsessions with thinness among the older girls. I know our society is no help in that regard, but we can't forget that thinness is also an obsession of Gothard's . I'll never forget how one of his victims described how, while she was suffering from anorexia, Bill took her aside and whispered in her ear that he was proud of her "discipline of figure." Horrifying.

Yeah, Jill and Joy Anna seem to be the only two older girls who don't seem to care too much about weight. I hope no one pushes poor Joy into weightloss, and I also wonder why Jill never seemed to care?

I get why Jessa was so uncomfortable though. All she has going for her is her beauty, and weight from pregnancy is not beautiful in gothard land. And since women are blamed whenever their husbands leave, and the Josh scandal happened when she was pregnant, I can't imagine what she was thinking.

She's easily one of the most miserable Duggars imo.

[Tabbygirl521]

I interpreted it as a Mother leaving her son and grandson knowing she won't be able to see them for the better part of a year. Frankly, I think she's more involved than Jill's parents are and is quite active in his life. Izzy will change so much in the next 8-9 months, it'd be hard to be away from him.

I never even thought about Cathy's being so recently through chemo/going to CA but yeah, this is an interesting point. When I had my "experience," i wasn't even supposed to wash dishes without gloves, never mind scooping cat boxes, etc. I am sure Cathy shouldn't be changing diapers. I actually had pretty mild chemo, too. Cathy looks like she had a much more grueling time.

[Loves2Dance]

I never even thought about Cathy's being so recently through chemo/going to CA but yeah, this is an interesting point. When I had my "experience," i wasn't even supposed to wash dishes without gloves, never mind scooping cat boxes, etc. I am sure Cathy shouldn't be changing diapers. I actually had pretty mild chemo, too. Cathy looks like she had a much more grueling time.

The cat boxes have chemical compounds that are released from the litter which makes them harmful, Izzy's diaper shouldn't be an issue. I do think it's absolutely ridiculous that she went to CA so soon after chemo; I've had some grueling doses myself, but she may have gone against her doctor's wishes. 

[Tabbygirl521]

The cat boxes have chemical compounds that are released from the litter which makes them harmful, Izzy's diaper shouldn't be an issue. I do think it's absolutely ridiculous that she went to CA so soon after chemo; I've had some grueling doses myself, but she may have gone against her doctor's wishes.

Hmmm, interesting about cat litter. I was given the impression that it was the feces that were the problem but maybe that was just ANOTHER problem. :)

[GeeGolly]

How long does it take to re-build one's immunize system after chemo? I remember Cathy still receiving chemo when they did the gender reveal. Has it been a year since she stopped?

 

And I think pregnant women shouldn't be near cat poop and be careful handling raw meat because of a certain parasite.

[kokapetl]

Izzy is a human, he's not gonna be as infested or dirty as a cat.

Sloshing around Guatemala probably isn't wise though.

[Readalot]

How long does it take to re-build one's immunize system after chemo? I remember Cathy still receiving chemo when they did the gender reveal. Has it been a year since she stopped?

And I think pregnant women shouldn't be near cat poop and be careful handling raw meat because of a certain parasite.

I just visited a dear friend who webt through chemo and just finished radiation. She was told about six months, but that also included the time she was told it would take to feel normal again. It's been about a month post radiation and even though her spirit was willing for us to take a stroll, it didn't happen. She said her tiredness is intermittent. - and one of my perks of being pregnant the third time was no cat duties for me! Our oldest usually took care of it anyway but it was nice that it was off limits for me.

[JasminePhyllisia]

Do we know for sure that D has Marfan syndrome because I just looked it up and it looks all kinds of awful. Do they have medical insurance and if so is he even covered in the rural Central American location they are going to? I'm worried about him.

Of all the girls I like Jill the best because she has a spark of wit and intelligence in her eyes even while she is towing the party line and speaking in Duggar-speak. Meanwhile Jessa has a spaced-out look in her eyes.

Anna is graceful and her kids are beautiful, too bad her options are so limited. The minute she entered the Duggar compound she was committing to a future with more kids with Mr. Ashley-Madison. She should have found her own angle for a reality show of her own.

[Loves2Dance]

How long does it take to re-build one's immunize system after chemo? I remember Cathy still receiving chemo when they did the gender reveal. Has it been a year since she stopped?

 

And I think pregnant women shouldn't be near cat poop and be careful handling raw meat because of a certain parasite.

A lot depends on the amount and types, but in my case, it was a full year and then some before I was truly considered safe. 

 

 

Hmmm, interesting about cat litter. I was given the impression that it was the feces that were the problem but maybe that was just ANOTHER problem. :)

Human feces is an issue for diseases that are passed through fecal matter; my niece and nephew just got over Hand, Foot and Mouth for example, and though they weren't contagious by touch after about 72 hours, it does remain in the stool for a few weeks. With cat litter, it's also nixed during pregnancy as well because of the chemicals. 

[Muffyn]

Do we know for sure that D has Marfan syndrome because I just looked it up and it looks all kinds of awful. Do they have medical insurance and if so is he even covered in the rural Central American location they are going to? I'm worried about him.

We have no reason to believe that Derrick has Marfan's syndrome.  I was very careful to state that he has the body type only.  That alone does not mean that he has the syndrome or any of the other physical characteristics that come with it.  I personally try to be very careful about not diagnosing anyone on looks alone.  It is a complicated disorder.  As far as we know, he does not have Marfan's Syndrome and I have no reason to expect that he does.  (I and some of my family members have the syndrome and some of us have the body type,  That is why I was knowledgeable about his surgery). 

 

The issue with cat litter is Toxoplasmosis, a parasitic infection that is high risk for pregnant women and people with immune deficiency.  The recent issue regarding the drug company executive who bought the patent to what the press referred to as an AIDS drug and raised the price astronomically was actually for a Toxoplasmosis drug.  So people undergoing chemo or radiation, those who are pregnant and people with illnesses that lower their immune response should avoid cat feces.  The concern is not regarding chemicals in the littler, especially given the great variety of types of litter now available.  

 

And, as Loves2Dance stated, there are risks with handling human feces.  Many diseases can be passed on through feces.  So again people who are immune compromised should be extra careful when changing diapers.  It was a shame to see Derrick's mom looking so tired.  However I am glad to see she was able to visit them and spend time with her grandson.  She seems like a small sea of sanity among the Duggars and Duggar satellites.   

[Lemur]

Have we ever seen that picture before? Jessa looks like an alien, and Ben looks like a beautiful bearded lady.

 

 

Look!  It's Denise Richards and her handsome-if-effeminate twin brother!

[Missy Vixen]

Fortunately for Cathy, there's no way in hell that Jill and Derick will actually stay there for eight or nine months without discovering an urgent need to return to Arkansas, at least temporarily. Eight or nine weeks, I give it.

The second Jilly Muffin sees a double plus sign on that pregnancy test, she'll be back. Then again, she's such an idiot that she probably thinks a VBAC will be noooo problemo with a midwife that doesn't speak English, and JM doesn't speak enough Spanish to communicate. After all, she prayed a lot and the LORD will answer her prayers...

[Wok Chop]

Look!  It's Denise Richards and her handsome-if-effeminate twin brother!

It finally dawned on me who that drawing of Ben reminds me of: Handsome Squidward with prettier eyes!

http://i.imgur.com/oqVyiRf.jpg

[Allison Lynn]

I could see that, but I keep thinking that picture of Bin looks like Jensen Ackles fan art.

[Fuzzysox]

On 12/28/2015 at 8:44 PM, BitterApple said:

I honestly don't think Jessa received any prenatal care beyond strip mall ultrasounds. There was never any mention on social media about going for check-ups, and we know Jessa shares everything. Jill probably listened to the baby's heartbeat every few weeks, and that was it.

I thought she was going to Cross Church for her ultrasound? She could have been going there too for free prenatal care but never posted about it.