S03.E04: Honeymoons

[Evil Queen]

So far all I am seeing with Sam is what most would consider to be verbal abuse. She obviously was never taught how to behave as a child. I can imagine this is nothing new to her family and friends who probably just take it if she dishes it out to them. I think her being give the truth on her behavior just puts her in the mode that she has done nothing wrong at all and as was said plays "victim" at that point. I know I wanted to smack her when she was saying how she was not sorry for having the feelings she did but for how she delivered those feelings. Her face was saying otherwise. I can see this just getting worse over time and not better. I don't know who said it but yes, where are those so called experts to step in when she does this crap? Why is it ok for her to be this way but not a man? Sorry but can't have it one way or the other because either man/woman acting this way is WRONG!!!! I bet anything if she did have a man that put her in her place and took charge of it all she would freak out and go off on them too. I have to wonder how she treats those sugar gliders and if they were trying to escape when she was gone.  

   Oh and the almost accident. Her going on about his being calm during that whole thing...UGH She is so stupid. I'm sorry but how is she allowed to drive at all??? The 2nd she had said she wanted to drive earlier in the show I knew she was not someone that should be driving at all and was one of those weave in, out types speeding along as if she owns the road. Why was she on the wrong side of the road to begin with? SMH If he was smart he would not let her EVER drive him anywhere. Of course he should just run from her but as long as he had to do this he should have never stepped foot in a car with her driving again. 

 

  Those that said Tres is not into it...really does seem that way with how he is reacting to her in those moments of touching and such. That to me would scream issues and she had to have noticed it after so may times of it. I get the feeling all he wanted to do is get her in bed and that is it. I think because she didn't give it up right away that was it for him. Sorry but the so called idiot expert saying how Tres was ready for marriage and looking for it when Tres is saying he wasn't to Vanessa shows the breakdown in communication is with at least that so called expert talking out of his butt is.

  

  I do feel for David still because at least he is trying. I know having someone talking like that would drive most of us nuts but she is doing none. She needs to put more into it all instead of the "stranger" chat. Give it a break. I give it to her that at least she was taught what is ok to say aloud and what isn't but it doesn't mean you can't get to know each other and be friendly. If she was this way when the "experts" talked to her then why pick her for the show? I know this was said by someone else but I do get the feeling she is also partly acting this way because she is afraid of how she may come off on tv. She is just lucky he is so kind to her about this all. At this point I think they are the only ones that could have a chance if she gives it a shot and opens more to it all. The other 2 couples forget it. 

 

I really wish they would have found other "experts" for this season though. It would have been nice to see how other ones would have picked and who would have ended up together. I have said before but I think if they took most of us and we all had the options for the people on this show we would do a better job of things. As well as weed out the crazies/abusers, ones that just want their 15 mins and those that won't be able to open up on tv and be themselves. 

[BananaRama]

Cilona said that the experts matched Sam and Neil because Sam is direct and frank and Neil is passive. For the life of me I can't figure how that made any sense to anyone. Passive quiet shy people do not like being around abrasive, aggressive people. Opposites don't always attract.

Well, I have a friend who has a very strong aggressive personality and she says she wants to date a man who is even stronger than her, but her relationships with aggressive men never work out because they are always butting heads and because frankly - she likes being in charge. She ended up marrying a man who is passive. However, he isn't a doormat, he is very careful when picking his battles. I think that is what the experts are hoping will happen with Sam and Neil.

[seacliffsal]

Sam has a distorted view of herself. She seems to see herself as the life of the party and worthy of always being the center of attention. It was really telling during the breakfast scene when she told Neil that she could see why the 'experts' put them together because "we're both kind, generous, and thoughtful" (a variation of that). My mouth must have dropped open after that statement. But, I think it really shows her self-perception. And, as she is just so much fun, she probably imagines her insults to be hilarious. If she doesn't realize how insulting and hurtful her comments and behavior are, she just doesn't understand reality.

I think that all of the 'experts' need to be fired. I really don't know if 'opposites attract' is a thing. Sure people with some opposite characteristics are fabulous together, but usually there are other characteristics that they have in common.

[Vinyasa]

Doug is the PERFECT example of a dude who knows his face isn't cute so he's put time and effort into his body. He has a slammin' body.

 

Oh, I think Doug's face looks fine in the pic.

 

David might look better without the beard. It is strange around the cheeks. Anyone notice?

[ralph]

Also the body language of Tres is very telling. HE WANTS OUT! did you all not see it? Vanessa was hanging all over him and his body language was showing that he did NOT feel the same way. Watch the last 2 scenes with them and watch his body language and watch her.

I think Tres likes her, but she's just a super physical person and even though he's into her, he's maybe not used to being touched, rubbed, fondled and kissed so often. (Have you noticed the weird way she's always rubbing his stomach?)

I also kinda thought she was drunk in the scene at the beach bar from the way she was leaning on him and the weird look in her eyes. Maybe that's why he seemed a bit distant.

Edited December 24, 2015 by ralph

[Vinyasa]

I wonder what happens with Vanessa and T when they are home? IMHO his job is a lot of hours.....luxury car sales is fast paced, many hours...and from what I have seen lot of party types.

 

I wonder how "luxury" are the cars he sells? Rolls Royce or Acura? These shows exaggerate the jobs so much.

 

What was Ryan D? A "business owner" but there was really no business?

[JenE4]

Ashley and David's relationship can be summed up in her voiceover as they were going on the waterslide--something to the affect of "David likes to have fun. I do not." And of course this is played over video of David as how everyone looks when they're climbing the waterslide stairs ("who-hoo! Let's do this!") and Ashley looking as miserable as if someone just catnapped her kitten (cue sad trombone). I'm at once impressed with David's persistence in not giving up on her, and astonished by Ashley's steadfast stranger danger reprise.

How Neil did not hurl that teatherball in Sam's face is beyond me. She truly had NO CLUE that she was insulting him nonstop? I thought she'd be impressed with his "manliness" of standing up for himself, but I guess I don't understand what behavior she expects from him. I did get a chuckle out of Neil "pumping iron" after being so thoroughly emasculated. Maybe if Sam keeps it up, Neil will spend all 6 weeks in the gym and come out of there as the "manliest man" Sam has ever seen and then won't she be sorry that she alienated him. I dozed off and woke up to them in linked arms talking about how their near-death experience made Sam realize Neil is exactly the man she needs. I thought I was dreaming, but apparently that was a thing that happened. Why do I suddenly get the feeling these two will be the success story of the season?

Oh, Vanessa. In the bar the way she was gripping his arm and convoluting herself practically upside down so she could look up at him with adoring twinkle eyes was just too much. He looked so uncomfortable as if Tres was thinking "stranger danger" too in reaction to Vanessa's "real honeymoon in loooove" demeanor.

[moonxyz]

I'm really gonna be upset if Sam and Neil end up being together. The was the show is being edited, I feel that she will somehow redeem herself in the end and this pisses me off.

 

David is trying to hard. Ashley friend-zoned him on from day one. I'm willing to bet that they won't even kiss during the experiment.

 

Tres and Vanessa come from broken homes but comme across as the most normal people. Tres is very hot and cold with his display of affeciton towards vanessa. I think he really wants to sleep with her but is afraid of coming off too strong, therefore he backs off from time to time. 

[SaucyMommy]

I'm just getting to the thread - sorry I'm late to the party but I thought I give my take on the couples.

 

David and Ashley:  Ashley has her "eww" face on. The face you make when you are stuck at the bar with that guy that wants to buy you a drink and all you can think is "ewww get away" but instead of being able to politely decline - she's been married to the Ewww guy at the bar. She thinks she's doing a great job of not being rude or leading him on wrongly. But this is a case where not saying anything at all is actually more hurtful. By dismissing and ignoring him, David is turning in to a creep by being over cheery and happy. He has to try too hard and then he looks even WEIRDER. I feel for David. She's a wet blanket

 

Tres and Vanessa: I find her boring and I don't believe anything he says.  He keeps saying how beautiful she is - but for some reason I don't believe he actually thinks that. I think he'll say it enough to get laid and then get bored.

 

Sam and Neil: I hate Sam. I really, really hate her. I can't believe she would turn an argument where she was clearly in the wrong and make it about him. This is why at the wedding her brother said "I hope Neil can handle her". Clearly her family knows she has some sort of personality disorder and is abusive and abrasive. There is nothing remotely likable for her. I really can't even cheer for them to work when I think Neil is just WAY too good for her. Run Neil Run!

[operalover]

Well, I have a friend who has a very strong aggressive personality and she says she wants to date a man who is even stronger than her, but her relationships with aggressive men never work out because they are always butting heads and because frankly - she likes being in charge. She ended up marrying a man who is passive. However, he isn't a doormat, he is very careful when picking his battles. I think that is what the experts are hoping will happen with Sam and Neil.

I agree with this 100%. I am more dominant like Sam and I married someone passive. Once I said to him "why do you always let me do whatever I want, even if it is a bad idea? Can't you ever say no to me?"  But then I really thought about it- how would I do with a guy who was always calling me on my bullshit? Not so well! She did claim that "all the men I have dated were dominant manly men"--- well NONE of those relationships worked out now did they?

[zxy556575]

If by "opposites attract," the experts mean that one person is the flower and the other is the gardener, then okay. My sister is extremely bossy and opinionated and her husband is quite mild and soft spoken. She picks out his clothes to wear every day, she drives when they go anywhere, he helps with her hobbies, etc. She likes being in control and he likes not having to make any decisions. Except I don't see that sort of yin/yang thing so far with any of these couples.

 

I personally don't understand Sam's manly man concept. Does she want someone who won't allow her to speak her mind? Who expects her to take care of the "women's work" such as cooking, cleaning, and raising the kids without any help from him? Does she enjoy being shouted at and derided? Is she okay with her husband going out drinking, playing poker, or hunting with his buddies six nights a week and leaving her alone? I'd honestly be interested to know.

 

Jerry Seinfeld and Stephen Colbert had a conversation about masculine man (from around 8:20 to 9:30). Maybe Sam really does want George C. Scott or Charles Bronson to rise from the dead.

Edited December 23, 2015 by lordonia

[moonxyz]

How did I forget? My favorite moment of the episode, when Neil's friends asks him if he finds Sam attractive. He doesn't say yes. LOL. 

[ClareWalks]

If I had to guess, I'd say Sam has been in some abusive relationships, if she equates being an asshole with "wearing the pants in the relationship."

[ralph]

I wonder how "luxury" are the cars he sells? Rolls Royce or Acura? These shows exaggerate the jobs so much.

 

What was Ryan D? A "business owner" but there was really no business?

He's an Audi salesman. They said it in the first episode. A while ago I noticed that the show only labeled him as a "luxury" car salesman and I assumed they were avoiding brand names like tv shows usually do for all those advertising/legal reasons.

 

I don't think they exaggerate though, I just think they try to make people sound reasonably successful. I also think they just try to stay slightly vague by using simpler, non specific titles

 

But Ryan D owned a gym. while "business owner" makes it sound a little bigger, it's not a complete lie.

Edited December 23, 2015 by ralph

[Neurochick]

Oh, Vanessa. In the bar the way she was gripping his arm and convoluting herself practically upside down so she could look up at him with adoring twinkle eyes was just too much. He looked so uncomfortable as if Tres was thinking "stranger danger" too in reaction to Vanessa's "real honeymoon in loooove" demeanor.

 

 

That's what I thought as well.  Vanessa was weirding me out, I can imagine how Tres felt.  She seems like the type of woman who, after one date, is already planning her wedding to the guy.

 

David and Ashley:  Ashley has her "eww" face on. The face you make when you are stuck at the bar with that guy that wants to buy you a drink and all you can think is "ewww get away" but instead of being able to politely decline - she's been married to the Ewww guy at the bar. She thinks she's doing a great job of not being rude or leading him on wrongly. But this is a case where not saying anything at all is actually more hurtful. By dismissing and ignoring him, David is turning in to a creep by being over cheery and happy. He has to try too hard and then he looks even WEIRDER. I feel for David. She's a wet blanket

 

 

And I know how Ashley feels too, though strangely enough, I find David attractive, not so great body and all.  There's something about him that I like, but then again, I've always been all about the gingers.

[BunnySlippers]

I personally don't understand Sam's manly man concept. Does she want someone who won't allow her to speak her mind? Who expects her to take care of the "women's work" such as cooking, cleaning, and raising the kids without any help from him? Does she enjoy being shouted at and derided? Is she okay with her husband going out drinking, playing poker, or hunting with his buddies six nights a week and leaving her alone? I'd honestly be interested to know.

 

 

I wonder, too. When she talked to her dad on Skype, she complained to him that Neil didn't pick up every tab. Is that what she means? A man who pays for everything? Is that manly enough for her?

[psychoticstate]

The thing with Ashley that I don't get is she's a very average looking person herself so realistically she could never land a guy that is super attractive.

 

 

Not necessarily.  I consider myself an average looking person and my ex was extremely attractive.  In fact, I had a few random women come up to me and ask whyhe was with me.  (We women can be so nice, can't we?)  In any event, looks aren't everything but when you are marrying someone at first sight, they do become of utmost importance at first because that's all you've got.

 

I think Ashley is naturally reserved anyhow and David is not her general type.  She's still trying to get to know him and she doesn't move quickly.  I will at least say she's trying and David is being understanding.

[JennyMominFL]

That's what I thought as well.  Vanessa was weirding me out, I can imagine how Tres felt.  She seems like the type of woman who, after one date, is already planning her wedding to the guy.

 

 

Well, that is basically the premise of the show, so she is good

Edited December 23, 2015 by JennyMominFL

[ethalfrida]

Sam is unkind.

[ralph]

Sam is honestly one of the most terrible people I've seen in a long time. She's rude, she's childish, she has no way with words at all (like really, how could she not realize some of the things she was saying to Neil were extremely insulting and emasculating). When Neil asked why she thought they were matched together, she cites that they BOTH are so kind and considerate (I've yet to see that side of her). She won't admit when she's wrong or at fault, when Neil was telling her that she made him angry, she completely ignores the fact that she said something that hurt someone else and focuses on the TIME he chose to tell her.  Even her apologies are shit. "I'm not sorry I think you're a weak ass pussy boy, I'm sorry I said it to your face"

How can one person be so flawed? I'd be personally pissed at the experts for matching me with this psychopath

Edited December 23, 2015 by ralph

[sleekandchic]

My heart started to race throughout this episode. This isn't entertainment. It's a chore to sit through.

Do the "Experts" require drug testing in tandem with background checks and the other "extensive" bullshit instruments? Sam has more problems than just her bad personality, bad attitude, bad manners, closely-set beady, crazy eyes and pudgy middle and thighs. I have infinite patience and understanding, but Sam has transformed me into a bitch. I would like to free her sugar gliders and lock Sam in their cage. Then go on vacation.

Are we to believe that the Experts were completely fooled by Sam? Was she able to Dr Jekyll her way through every interview, every questionnaire, every home visit? How?! What does that say about the Experts? Haha.

The snippets of Sam's THs that the show initially shared were all about the dead sainted grams. Surely, Cilona et al probed deeper than that?

Meanwhile, I believe Ashley is searching or longing for something that doesn't exist on Planet Earth. Look at her career trajectories. She earned her MSW, entered social work, then decided to go back to school to get her RN, to "help" people. Evidently her social work clients weren't worthy enough of her help? What will happen when her RN patients don't improve, or die? Ashley becomes a doctor...or a massage therapist? What? But Ashley, wherever you run, there YOU are. There is NO escape from Ashley, Ashley.

I thought Season 2 was a horror show. Little did I know.

[Vinyasa]

David is trying to hard. Ashley friend-zoned him on from day one.

 

I wouldn't even say Ashley friend-zoned David. She doesn't ask anything about him or seems like she even wants to get to know him. She said she wants some "alone" time after the honeymoon. She has no interest in even being friends with him. 

 

Jaclyn definitely made an effort to get to know Ryan. Ashley hasn't.

[deannanikki]

I don't think that this has been mentioned, but Ashley said she was in a 9-year relationship that lasted from HS through grad school. And then she said that she only dates guys with dark hair and dark eyes? How many guys has she dated anyway? Is she trying to find a guy who is a clone of her ex?

Yes, I forgot about that! And she said that she had been single for a year. Interesting that she tried this show....

[still hoping]

I am hoping Neil and Slam get together with his nice close knit bunch of pals and I hope they rip Slam a "new one" haha

I would love to see them gang up on her - she deserves it

Neil 's former gf is nicer looking and most sane people are nicer than delusional self absorbed Slam.

[Theo]

I seriously think Sam is on drugs that is the only explanation for her behavior. To be honest I think she may be an alcoholic that suffers through withdrawals during the tapings. During the dinner she looked visible drunk same with the tether ball scene. She stumbles around her face looks to be drunk as well. Wouldn't that also explain why she was driving on the wrong side of the road? Beyond her obvious mental issues I think she has a substance abuse problem which would explain her ups and downs on a hourly basis.

 

I can't believe Neil is making it through this and it's not fair to him because he should not have to put up with this to get his 100k. If he drops out he loses the money but in all reality I would say that his life may be in danger as Sam's behavior is not even to launch a TV career or to be famous but seriously the behavior of a drug addict or a very mentally disturbed person.

 

Tres and Vanessa may actually end up making it but who knows. Vanessa is kinda homey looking and obviously looks MUCH better done up. She looks way older than 26 and I think Tres attraction to her may subside as I don't think what she looked like on her wedding day really represents her true looks. 

 

I don't blame Ashley for not being attracted to David because he has that miniature Dan Conner shape/look but out of all the contestants from all 3 seasons I think he is the most genuine and wants to get really get married and start a life with a woman. I don't want to bang on Ashley too much since she doesn't seem like a bad person but I think she may have unrealistic expectations of the quality of her physical appearance as well. Ashley at best is just an average girl with some flaws and a really dull personality. I actually think David face has a Bradley Cooper look to it - they share some features.

[ClareWalks]

I actually think David face has a Bradley Cooper look to it - they share some features.

 

From certain angles David strongly resembles Chris Kyle, who Cooper played in "American Sniper," so I see it too!

[Soup333]

Free David from boring Ashley and free Neil from the horrid Sam. Then send them on a honeymoon together. I ship it. Deil. Navid. Whatever.

[Pepper Mostly]

I wouldn't even say Ashley friend-zoned David. She doesn't ask anything about him or seems like she even wants to get to know him. She said she wants some "alone" time after the honeymoon. She has no interest in even being friends with him. 

 

Jaclyn definitely made an effort to get to know Ryan. Ashley hasn't.

I agree! she doesn't seem to be interested in getting to know him at all. She said on the drive up to Sedona that she "ran out of small talk". Its been several days now--if she can't get past "seen any good movies lately" or "fall is my favorite season" its going to be a long six weeks. I can't figure out why she agreed to do this. 

 

Sam. Oy. She's so graceless and ungainly. She wants a "man's man" (whatever that means) but she's not a very womanly woman. I don't adhere to the notion that she should be some sort of Barbie doll but my god she could drag a comb through her hair every once in a while. She acts like one of the guys. A really uncouth, douche-y guy who thinks being insulting is funny. I like Neil so much and I hate to see the hurt in his eyes. (which is ridiculous, I don't know him. but I'm sure he deserves better). 

[seasick]

I did pick up on Tres body language at the end of the ep.  I'm willing to do a 'wait and see',  not feeling hopeful at all.

 

But I notice he's focused alot on "taking it to the next level".. i.e.  sex.  And It's not like they are in the distant friend zone...they have been romantic and sparky.  I get the focus (okay he'd like to have sex-- that's normal--)   but somehow the focus,- the verbalizing of it alot, and considering it another   "Level".  bothers me.  I think it's the end-game for him.   " I closed the sale"   got the Icing on the cake--.now  what's(who's)  next".

 

I can't agree more with everything said about Sam.  She is horrible.  And I do like Neil.  He is such a quality person. 

 

As others have said, just because Sam isn't attracted to Neil is NO EXCUSE for belittling or being her nasty abusive self. Claiming she did not know what she said was insulting and hurtful is such a ridiculous lie.  

 

 

But I need to talk about Neil and his sex appeal.  He could really have quite a bit but I almost think he fights it!  He is pretty strong, I mean he carried that frump of lard across the threshhold even though she probably outweighs him.  Dark hair --always comes across stronger to me than light hair (although it's no true signature).  He has a decent, wiry body.  He's athletic. He runs.  He enjoys a little adrenaline (sky diving, ATV's etc.)  He's a doer.  He's intelligent,  He's got a sense of humor (probably wittier that what we've seen him display with shithead)  He's a 'grown-up'  I.e. he knows his way around in the world, how to order food rent a car, make a reservation, whatever-- hes got some sophistication and worldy-ness; doesn't need his hand held.  He can take the lead in many situations.   

 

That said---  he can dress pretty girly!  I guess those slippers were provided by the resort ( I hope!!  he still shouldn't wear them tho!!)    His sneakers did look like girls' "keds".  ( I'm sorry--I look at what a man puts on his feet.  I don't think I'm alone with that!  It says something to me)   

 

And those two shirts with the flowers!  They weren't men's T shirts or a Hawaiian shirt.  They looked like blouses.  And I know he thought the onesie he wore would be a funny icebreaker and send out a non-threatening message for the wedding night, but it was scary it was such a turn-off-- a vision that can't be unseen!.  (just like her hanging food out of her mouth at the reception, or wallowing around on the floor in her wedding dress---  Hard to get past.)   

 

It's hard to say what Neil would be like with a nicer girl.  I think he would take the lead and appear more assertive.  Since she dominates and controls every situation it's hard to say.

 

 I was not happy to hear him say "I AM very passive".(I think it should have been more "I CAN be very passive" )   But it did seem that she meant it as an attack,  and by agreeing and affirming it,  it was his way of saying so "Yeah,so what?" , "no apologies here".,,  Neil's approach reminds of of what I think is the philosophy of Judo.  Win by using the other persons aggression and strength against them-- -sidestep the punch and let them throw themselves off-balance. Then grab the momentum and take them down.  He did catch her off-balance with his "don't call me pussy remark"  (it smacked her in the face and she went off to lick her wounds and call Daddy).

 

 Unfortunately I'm not sure Neil really gets where she's coming from or they have editied it out.  I wish he would call it out.  "Hey, you aren't attracted to me. That's fine.  But that is not an excuse for your nasty, rude and insulting comments and behaviour.  I'm disappointed in this match-up too, but I don't take it out on you".  

 

Neil could make friends with a wolverine.  I think,-- and it appears --that she will stop being so rude and attacking and they will become friends.  That is my fear though. I Hope to heaven above that he looks to find a person that matches his maturity and intelligence..  She's too manipulative and that's not going to change.

 

But! back to Neil's sense of style:  I think he needs to come to terms with the fact that yes, he's not built like a brute and he's a more cerebral type.  he has a slight build etc etc.  But his original beard WAS off-putting.  His hairstyle is pretty severe and could definitely be more cute and boyish.  Maybe just be aware and more sensitive to what is more "manly' and sexually attractive. .  I think he almost fights the 'stereotype" of being 'manly'. in the alpha-sense ( with those slippers and blouses and girly keds)  but he IS manly and should make the best of what he has....  Having a friend is great but you do eventually want to get laid!  

 

And I would like to see Neil assert himself at least to the camera about just how attractive he's finding Sam.  He's been put in a defensive position but I'd like to see him take a stand. and acknowledge his own sexual feelings.  I'm sure he has an opinion of how unattractive he finds her (at the very least personality wise) and wish he would say it.. It would make me feel better about his own self-awareness and needs..  I'm getting tired of getting to know Neil only through Sams definitions..

    .   .  

[Jade Foxx]

 

I seriously think Sam is on drugs that is the only explanation for her behavior.

 

Or she isn't on her prescribed ones...or, just has a raging personality disorder no amount of meds will cure.

 

 

She wants a "man's man" (whatever that means) but she's not a very womanly woman. I don't adhere to the notion that she should be some sort of Barbie doll but my god she could drag a comb through her hair every once in a while. She acts like one of the guys.

 

Exactly. She strikes me as the type to rip farts, burp loudly, not bathe, scratch her invisible nutsack, etc., and then complain the men in her life can't "handle her" because she's too "real."

 

I think she's truly heinous. (in case it wasn't clear)

[Palomar]

Sam and Neil: Seriously, Sam...besides being beyond rude you are seriously delusional. There is a HUGE reason why you are single and that your family members are happy you are now married.  There is no reason why you should be so rude when you are not even close to being a prize yourself. Why not try out the experiment without insulting Neil who has been nothing but kind to you.  If it doesn't work out, fine, divorce him.  To insult him just shows your lack of character.

 

David and Ashley: Ashley, you got a guy who really wants marriage and who is kind to you and who is patient.  Open up and give it a try.  Obviously the type of guys you have been with in the past was not working. Why did you even go on this show again?  Try and see what happens.

 

Tres and Vanesa: Don't think about what could go wrong.  Think about what could happen if you are all in and if it doesn't work out, at least you tried.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Palomar

[Almost 3000]

I thought Neil was kind of hot in the way he palmed the tether ball, held it and stopped to talk to Sam. Big hands.

[Jack Sampson]

Vanessa has an unfortunate cry-face. She's not nearly as attractive without makeup but you look down and it's like Nirvana.

Joking aside, maybe Ashley's brain surgery caused a problem. She seems to pause before answering even the most basic questions. I'm pretty sure I'd let her study while I went out and enjoyed Sedona. And she said she was in A relationship that lasted 9 years and didn't get married - she's not kidding when she says it takes time to warm up to someone. Then she has the nerve to say that she's "trying her best." If this is her best, there's no way I'd stick around. I might stick it out for the cameras, no need to poison my reputation around town, but it would be effectively over.

Sam: Now do you see why they matched us?

Neil: (Should have said) So you can be a raving bitch as much as you want and still have me around for when your mistakes almost end in catastrophe?

I stand firm on my earlier comments about Sam.

[ralph]

Do the "Experts" require drug testing in tandem with background checks and the other "extensive" bullshit instruments? Sam has more problems than just her bad personality, bad attitude, bad manners, closely-set beady, crazy eyes and pudgy middle and thighs. I have infinite patience and understanding, but Sam has transformed me into a bitch. I would like to free her sugar gliders and lock Sam in their cage. Then go on vacation.

Are we to believe that the Experts were completely fooled by Sam? Was she able to Dr Jekyll her way through every interview, every questionnaire, every home visit? How?! What does that say about the Experts? Hah

I've tried to defend the experts, their credentials and their professional integrity at almost every turn, but you're so right about this and I can't even begin to defend against it. How does some one with Sam's personality traits slip past them? I don't have any other explanation except for it being on purpose and "crazy bitches make good TV"

Sam. Oy. She's so graceless and ungainly. She wants a "man's man" (whatever that means) but she's not a very womanly woman.

 

I agree. While some people can argue about "traditional" gender roles, Sam doesn't really put herself out there as a woman who needs to be catered to or cared for. How can someone be your "manly man" of you're 90% of the man in the relationship? If she tried to be more girly and feminine I think Neil's natural gentleman would come out and he's do the things she's talking about. I can't imagine anything more unlikely then any man falling over himself to take care of a woman who's already called him ugly and wimpy. I'm not even sure that's what she wants anyway, what she seems to want is some kind of grown up frat boy jock. With the way she acts, I don't think those men would really be checking for her, they'd just friend zone her and label her as one of the guys.

[Vinyasa]

I've tried to defend the experts, their credentials and their professional integrity at almost every turn, but you're so right about this and I can't even begin to defend against it. How does some one with Sam's personality traits slip past them? I don't have any other explanation except for it being on purpose and "crazy bitches make good TV"

 

Yep, and the crazier the better!

[tvehemently]

So, why didn't Doug get the moles removed before the marriage/honeymoon? Is it a religious thing? Is it like Samson's hair? Will he lose his doughy super-powers if his moles are no more?

 

I'm just thinking, there's big odds against marriage to begin with, much less one that starts sight-unseen. I think a normal person would think, "Hey, maybe I should lose the flappy growths before my bride-to-be sees me for the first time and starts making a determination on whether or not I'm boneable. . .".

 

Speaking of flappy growths. . .am I the only one who thinks Neils lips are large enough to be distracting? Also, is it just me or is he a little effeminate? Not that there's anything wrong with that. . .unless you're marrying him and a female maybe.

[tvehemently]

Also, on the same subject of being your best self for your new bride who's never seen you before. . .

 

Dave.

 

Buddy. Some women like big men but, it's not a high percentage bet. Maybe skip a few meals and do something that resembles exercise once or twice before your wedding. Sure, it's a long-shot but, why not at least give the appearance of trying?

 

I think we can make a pretty good guess as to why most of these people haven't found a spouse going the traditional route.

[Squirrely]

Sam may not know this, but men like Neil's generous and considerate natures tend to extend to the bedroom as well, at least in my experience. Manly in-your-face with their abundance of testosterone men? Not so much. For instance, I'd lay money on Doug being 1000x the lover Ryan D is any day of the week.

I wouldn't even say Ashley friend-zoned David. She doesn't ask anything about him or seems like she even wants to get to know him. She said she wants some "alone" time after the honeymoon. She has no interest in even being friends with.

I'm an introvert so I completely understand her desire to get a night alone because David is just so in her face all the time, and just watching it mentally exhausts me. I'm not an anti-social introvert, but if I don't get solitude to recharge I start turning into a huge bitch, and it's really hard to control.

But, that said, I don't have a stick up my ass like she seems to. I can be friendly and converse with people, and do so on a regular basis. Then again, how many days in are they? These honeymoons seem a but longer than S2's were. Several days of that and I'd want a quiet car ride too, and a helicopter ride without a grown man in my lap.

And I'd never do this show in a million years for these reasons, amongst all the other reasons a sane person would consider. The presence of cameras and their operators alone would drain me quickly.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Squirrely

[humbleopinion]

Imma gonna stick up for my buddy David.

He isn't huge, he just needs to cut out the third beer and leave the bread basket alone.

He looks like all the other older frat bros at a working lunch meeting at Dave and Busters.

His good manners and patience with Ashley will eventually win her over as she acclimates to having another man other than her decade boyfriend.

Team David.

 

Removing moles as big a Doug's would leave craters and scars so if the mole is noncancerous, leave them be.

 

I think RyanD was in some shady biz, you can Google around to get the info.

[tvehemently]

Removing moles as big a Doug's would leave craters and scars so if the mole is noncancerous, leave them be.

 

Let's see, scars or flappy, discolored skin. I'm going to go scars everytime I think. I mean let me throw some names out here. . .Machete, Edward James Olmos, Benicio Del Toro. Sure, not classic lookers but, preferable to looking like Dennis Johnson or Mrs Doubtfire, eh?

 

The rest of your post just makes me glad I was never a frat bro. Or a bro even sans the frat.

[Madding crowd]

This is my first year watching this, and it seems like they failed at every match up. Tres and Vanessa both seem nice, but Tres seemed so anxious and interested pre-wedding and seems checked out post-wedding. Vanessa is pretty and nice, but you can tell she is trying too hard with Tres. 

 

David wouldn't be my type and he talks too much, but he is nice and considerate. I have no idea why Ashley wanted to go on this show. She clearly is uncomfortable around strangers, doesn't want to get to know David, and is dull as dirt. WTH?

 

Sam is inconsiderate, rude, you name it. But I'm not sure Neil is a prize either. He is one of those guys who goes out of his way to be quirky and I don't find him attractive at all. He also dresses strange. He seems like the last person who would want to be on this show ( along with Ashley) so I just don't get it.

 

Oddly enough, I don't think any of the men are overly manly, even David. Not saying a guy has to be like that, but all three seem to be somewhat passive and slightly effeminate to me. Maybe they should try a switch and pair off Ashley and Neil and Sam and David and see what happens. I think it is possible that Vanessa and Tres make it-he isn't really saying much so it's hard to say if he is really into the marriage.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Madding crowd

[tvehemently]

Sam may not know this, but men like Neil's generous and considerate natures tend to extend to the bedroom as well, at least in my experience. Manly in-your-face with their abundance of testosterone men? Not so much. For instance, I'd lay money on Doug being 1000x the lover Ryan D is any day of the week.

I suppose it depends on what you want in that department. Men can be considerate and generous and still be manly. In fact, some might argue that, although those traits aren't exclusive to men, they are part of what makes a man a good man (or a good person for that matter), regardless of any other characteristics.

 

I think you're confusing "being a dick" with "manly". Don't feel bad, a lot of guys get it wrong too.

[Adeejay]

I like David.  He seems like a good guy.  Ashley was probably expecting a guy that looks like Chris Pine, Zac Efron or Henry Cavill.  I think she  is delusional.  

Edited December 24, 2015 by Adeejay

[Snarklepuss]

Granted that if Sam acted more feminine and open to Neil, he might feel free to act more "manly" to her, but it works the other way around, too.  If Neil seemed more manly to her, Sam would melt a bit and feel and act more feminine.  But it's all her perception of him that's to blame for that.  To me Neil seems like a metrosexual kind of guy, but most of that is surface anyway.  Who cares if he manscapes and carries a murse?  That doesn't affect his real manliness, IMO.  I think Sam is hung up on surface stuff that doesn't foretell whether a guy is a real man or not.  A gentleman can still be a "real man".  That's why they invented the term, to denote a brute from a civilized guy with manners.  And I think Neil is a gentleman, which is what is throwing her off.  She equates the surface aspects of that with weakness but I still think it's because she doesn't know what a "real man" is.  To her it's all surface stuff.  In her immature mind a manly man should act and look like the stereotype of a lumberjack or something (Python sketches aside) because she basically has the maturity of a 13 year old and can't see past the external stuff to a guy's character.

[Snarklepuss]

I'm an introvert so I completely understand her desire to get a night alone because David is just so in her face all the time, and just watching it mentally exhausts me. I'm not an anti-social introvert, but if I don't get solitude to recharge I start turning into a huge bitch, and it's really hard to control.

But, that said, I don't have a stick up my ass like she seems to. I can be friendly and converse with people, and do so on a regular basis. Then again, how many days in are they? These honeymoons seem a but longer than S2's were. Several days of that and I'd want a quiet car ride too, and a helicopter ride without a grown man in my lap.

And I'd never do this show in a million years for these reasons, amongst all the other reasons a sane person would consider. The presence of cameras and their operators alone would drain me quickly.

 

I'm totally with you on this - this is me to a T - I think Ashley is mentally and emotionally exhausted at this point from the entire experience.  It's the nerves, the excitement, the having cameras in her face and having constant interaction with David in a setting where she just can't get away for a minute to recharge.  It's not really David's fault, it's because they're on a honeymoon which is set up for a couple to be together all the time because it's presumed that they will want to be together that much and are comfortable enough with each other not to be annoyed or exhausted by 24/7 interaction with the other person.  Plus, they were supposed to use this time to get to know each other.  If I were in her shoes I'd go out of my comfort zone in order to accomplish that, because if I signed up for this (which I wouldn't) I'd be on board with getting to know this guy.  And the only way to do that is by talking with him for extended periods of time.  My husband and I are both definite introverts but we can get very chatty with each other and when we find people we want to connect with.  I just don't think Ashley is sociable enough to want to do that with anyone let alone when she is so exhausted.  I've been known to forego eating and sleeping and exhaust myself if the conversation is that good, especially when I was young.  So it's not her introversion per se if you ask me, it's her unwillingness to step too far outside her comfort zone. 

 

She's already admitted that she isn't really into "having fun" - I mean how unbelievably uptight and unwilling to take a risk is she?  David nailed it when he said she was more of a risk taker than she thought she was by marrying a stranger.  That kind of risk taking seems to contradict her later behavior.  I just think she needs to stop focusing on whether he is "her type" or not.  We here have discussed the topic of falling for men that aren't our "usual type".  That's what women DO.  If women didn't do that all the time every day we'd have a world full of uptight Ashleys and no guy would get anywhere with any woman.  When I think back on the number of men I've fallen for who were "my usual type" it's almost nil.  It sounds to me like Ashley actually has had very little experience dating.  She is relatively young and has had one 9 year relationship?  That's probably the only one she's ever had.  To me that means she never got out there enough to understand how she could fall for a guy that isn't "her usual type".  She is another very immature person for her age if you ask me.

[Madding crowd]

My husband of 20 years is really not by type at all-if you would have me describe my type. Yet, he is the kindest, funniest, best guy in the world. But honestly, if I met him one day and then had to spend 24/7 with him for several days, I might have not liked him and might have reacted a bit like Ashley. But I still can't excuse her (or Sam or Tres) because they knew what they were getting into. Maybe both Ashely and Sam were very specific as to physical types and the experts just ignored all that.

 

This is my first year watching but do the experts totally ignore physical preferences? Because there has to be a spark of sexual interest or it's just not going to work. Of course, many other things are needed to, but you will never commit to someone you don't find at all attractive. Just my feelings of course but I can't imagine having sex with or spending my life with someone I didn't find attractive. On the other hand, looks are subjective. I had a previous boyfriend who was described as drop dead gorgeous by all my friends, and I am kind of girl next door attractive. Yet, he thought I was beautiful. So you never know. Neil might find a girl who thinks he is handsome.

[JapMo]

Someone said Neil was "effeminate".  I couldn't agree more.  And I also agree that he kind of prides himself on not trying to change and be more attractive to women in the normal way.  Everybody's ragging on Sam and deservedly so - let me point out something about Neil.  IMO Neil is lazy.  He could NOT have been getting any action with that grandpa beard he was sporting AND HE KNEW IT.  Hence it took one comment from Dr. Pepper to get him to shave it. Why?  He signed up for this show so they could find him someone and he wouldn't have to do any of the work.  He just wants to be married.  So you got your wish Neil...how does it feel?

 

I don't remember Ashley actually saying she doesn't like to have fun....I thought she said David likes to do little kid things but she doesn't.  If I'm wrong, it won't be the first time.  But regarding Ashley, as others have said, she's not into him and IMO has already given up.  To me it was very rude to sit in the car and ignore your husband and look at your e-mails and then pull the 'I'm shy-you're a stranger' card.  Ashley is VERY aware of the cameras and has probably promised herself from the beginning that she would not do anything to look bad on TV.  Fair enough, but look in your medical book on how to disengage stick from butt.  Because lady, you are a total drag.  I'm still holding out hope she will come around, because David is not ugly by any means and has a cute demeanor.  But I think about the future....if they did stay together and she really was such a lifeless bore...how could a people person like David ever truly be happy with her?  He'd have to drag her to every function where she'd sit in the corner and send off 'leave me the hell alone' vibes to everyone.  She may have better manners than Sam (my 2 year old grandson does) but she acts totally shocked that she's married to a stranger...even though she signed up to marry someone sight unseen.  Is this the kind of brainiac we want working in the medical profession?    

[ketose]

My husband of 20 years is really not by type at all-if you would have me describe my type. Yet, he is the kindest, funniest, best guy in the world. But honestly, if I met him one day and then had to spend 24/7 with him for several days, I might have not liked him and might have reacted a bit like Ashley. But I still can't excuse her (or Sam or Tres) because they knew what they were getting into. Maybe both Ashely and Sam were very specific as to physical types and the experts just ignored all that.

 

This is my first year watching but do the experts totally ignore physical preferences? Because there has to be a spark of sexual interest or it's just not going to work. Of course, many other things are needed to, but you will never commit to someone you don't find at all attractive. Just my feelings of course but I can't imagine having sex with or spending my life with someone I didn't find attractive. On the other hand, looks are subjective. I had a previous boyfriend who was described as drop dead gorgeous by all my friends, and I am kind of girl next door attractive. Yet, he thought I was beautiful. So you never know. Neil might find a girl who thinks he is handsome.

The one part that makes sense is that they don't want a Tinder situation where the person gets to just decide what they think they want. The concept is that the person can't find the one on their own so they get someone thrust at them and then have to get to know someone rather than dismiss them out of hand. The reality is that the show is full of fame whores and unstable people, so you have no idea what you'll get.

[Madding crowd]

I understand that, but no one wants to be married to someone they don't find attractive. Not suggesting they turn it into Tinder, but maybe have consideration for the physical as well as mental attributes. I don't know how many people they have to work with though, and of course most of them are going to be fame whores, like you said.

[BunnySlippers]

I understand that, but no one wants to be married to someone they don't find attractive. Not suggesting they turn it into Tinder, but maybe have consideration for the physical as well as mental attributes. I don't know how many people they have to work with though, and of course most of them are going to be fame whores, like you said.

 

In the first season, Jamie found her new husband, Doug, totally unattractive. In the second season, Jaclyn found her new husband, Ryan, quite unattractive. Now, in this season, out of three women, two are unhappy with the looks of their husbands. So yeah, I'm not sure how much the experts take the participants' preferences into consideration, though they do ask those kinds of questions (as far as I know) on their questionnaires.

 

One reason might be that they have much less men to choose from than women. Apparently, they actively had to recruit some of the men to participate in the show instead of being able to choose from a big pool of men who really wanted to do this.