S31.E14: Lie, Cheat, And Steal / S31.E15: Live Reunion

[SnideAsides]

Sorry if it's been brought up earlier in the thread.....Did I miss it or was there no fan favorite this season for $100,000?  Or did they stop doing that?

They stopped doing it years ago. I think Probst finally realised that people were playing to win the $100k and save themselves a few days of suffering instead of playing for the million.

[RedheadZombie]

He's good looking and I can respect his strength in challenges but I've always been more attracted to the quirky and slightly awkward myself, so I'd probably be more attracted to someone like Spencer. But yeah the Joe anointing is a bit much since he's really never done anything that special in either of his seasons in my opinion.

 

I do think that Joe's a "boy next door", all-American type, but the exultation is over the top.  I loved it with Ozzie, not so much with Malcolm, and I'm totally sick of it with Joe.

 

I'm also so shocked at how the men looked at the reunion.  I wouldn't say I'm into unbathed emaciated men with facial hair, but I'm always surprised at how less hot they look clean, fed, and groomed.

 

I like the quirky/awkward too.  I actually thought Stephen was kind of hot sitting there trying to brag on Joe.  A man wearing glasses - super hot. 

[BigRedCheese]

 

Speaking of Wigglesworth did she really vote based on a random number between 1 and 10? If so she is a jackass.

 

She did say "fate was on your side tonight" when she voted, so it looks like she did. I like it when people do that, but she should have gone higher than 10, and also make it closest to the number without going over, so they have to really think about it.

[Wandering Snark]

For some unknown reason my brain screamed 'Pick 8! Pick 8!'

 

But she did say the number would determine her vote but she didn't exactly tell what he criteria for the "number" was. It could have been "My favorite number is 7. Closest to it wins my vote." or "Whoever guesses highest (or lowest) wins." so it might not have been as cut and dry as we thought. Classic detail that could have been addressed but wasn't by Probst who always does a crap job with the "Reunion".

[Ms Blue Jay]

For some unknown reason my brain screamed 'Pick 8! Pick 8!'

 

Chinese culture ;)  8 = money/rich.  4 = death !

[lyric]

I do think that Joe's a "boy next door", all-American type, but the exultation is over the top.  I loved it with Ozzie, not so much with Malcolm, and I'm totally sick of it with Joe.

 

I'm also so shocked at how the men looked at the reunion.  I wouldn't say I'm into unbathed emaciated men with facial hair, but I'm always surprised at how less hot they look clean, fed, and groomed.

 

I like the quirky/awkward too.  I actually thought Stephen was kind of hot sitting there trying to brag on Joe.  A man wearing glasses - super hot. 

Redhead - I love your posts, and agree with everything you've said here, aside from Stephen, which...ick.

[mojoween]

If you ask him, Beast Mode Cowboy (Caleb from next season) belongs to Brains, Brawn AND Beauty.

It was nice of Lowe's to give him the time off from work.

[BigRedCheese]

 

Probst who always does a crap job with the "Reunion".

 

I actually thought he wasn't so bad this time, I think everything was related to the season, no talking to some random tween girl with a crush on Joe, no talking to a random celebrity fan of the show. He ignored a few people but at least it wasn't to talk to Russell Hantz, Boston Rob, or one of his other man crushes from a different season.

[Zuleikha]

Speaking of Wigglesworth did she really vote based on a random number between 1 and 10? If so she is a jackass.

I thought that was the perfect thing for her to do given the whole season's theme. It's not like it really mattered either (and per Greg's interviews, it didn't really matter when he did it to Kelly either).

 

I do think that Joe's a "boy next door", all-American type, but the exultation is over the top.

I don't think he is. He's a Burner hippy type. He does yoga, makes jewelry, and paints watercolors. Outside of Survivor, he's the type that would usually be mocked for being a slacker loser (note: not actually saying Joe is a slacker loser!). Survivor's just a great context for him.

[breezy424]

They stopped doing it years ago. I think Probst finally realised that people were playing to win the $100k and save themselves a few days of suffering instead of playing for the million.

Thanks.  I've watched Survivor every season but I'm not a 'super' fan and things start to meld together.

[RedheadZombie]

If you ask him, Beast Mode Cowboy (Caleb from next season) belongs to Brains, Brawn AND Beauty.

It was nice of Lowe's to give him the time off from work.

 

I'm just now watching that part.  Beast Mode Cowboy - oh boy.  He's going to need a Derek to lead him around. I actually enjoy his tall tales and watching him show off karate moves while crashing to the ground.  He'll be on the watch for men wearing sox in the super-secret military way.  If he doesn't stalk any women, I'm really going to enjoy him.

[Katesus7]

I think I might take a pass on next season. It sounds like a trainwreck, I hated the premise the first time they did it, and I just don't think I can take that stalking, creepy, asshat Caleb another minute. Blech.

Dear Probst: Not everyone loves your man crushes. Some people find pretty boys who are great at challenges boring and bland. Especially when they seem to have no handle on actual strategy, or any kind of plan other than "Well, I need to win a shitload of challenges". I find Joe to be a Malcolm-lite, and I didn't like Malcolm all that much. Stop saying "EVERYONE" loves who you love, Probst, because you and I generally don't love the same people! Well, except Wentworth. He seemed to like her, and on that I can agree.

Rather inoffensive reunion. No fights, nothing obnoxious, pretty bland.

[blackwing]

I thought I would be more OK with a win for Jeremy, but call me cynical, but I thought it was an extremely cheap play for him to play the "my wife is pregnant" card.  I thought he performed very poorly at final tribal.  Spencer's answers were great.  They showed growth and maturity.  Tasha also performed well.  But Jeremy was a bit weak.  Especially the answer to Keith's question about why Spencer should win.

 

Even Stephen said that most of the jury viewed Tasha as doing Jeremy's dirty work so he didn't get dirty.  I'm always confused as to why the guy who doesn't get his hands dirty gets rewarded.  If anything, reward Tasha for making herself a target.

 

It just left a bad taste in my mouth that he cries and says he's having a son and he wanted to tell people but didn't seems to have won him a million dollars.

 

And this is something I have been confused about all season... what exactly is the difference between "alliance" and "voting blocs"?  An alliance is a group of people who work together to accomplish the same goal, i.e., get the person out they want out.  A voting bloc is a group of people who work together to get the vote to go their way, i.e., get the person out they want out.  There must be a subtle difference that I'm missing.  It could be that people had multiple alliances because of all the tribal switches.  But hasn't that been called a "suballiance" in past seasons?

[LadyChatts]

And this is something I have been confused about all season... what exactly is the difference between "alliance" and "voting blocs"?  An alliance is a group of people who work together to accomplish the same goal, i.e., get the person out they want out.  A voting bloc is a group of people who work together to get the vote to go their way, i.e., get the person out they want out.  There must be a subtle difference that I'm missing.  It could be that people had multiple alliances because of all the tribal switches.  But hasn't that been called a "suballiance" in past seasons?

 

 

When you get an answer can you tell me?  Voting blocs/sub alliances/actual alliances) but both have been around since the start of the series.  The only difference I see if a bloc/sub is breaking off from the core group.  But it is the same thing.

[RedheadZombie]

He was banned.  He left right after being voted off and went home (which he believes was the reason he was excluded) but he was active on SM while filming was going on.  On top of spoilers being leaked out, many think that is the real reason he wasn't asked back because he was behind them (or at least for being on SM and giving that away).  Plus, he whined that he wouldn't have come back if he knew he'd be out first.

 

I'm no Vytas fan, but Colton was allowed onstage after quitting - twice!

[Knuckles]

Nobody who competes the way Joe does in the challenges is any kind of slacker. Interesting guy, not just an athlete, but artistic as well. Of course I think he's gorgeous, but your mileage may vary.

Though I also love Keith...not gorgeous, but a tough challenger and a firefighter as well. i had hoped he would bag the win when Joe was booted, but once again my hopes were crushed.

I don't get all the Jeremy love, and I think his backstory...pregnant wife, firefighter, et. al. were major elements for him,  as did his social strategy, but he was meh at any challenge, and I give props to those who have real survivor skills. No IC or RC wins, no puzzle chops...but luck in finding idols, and a good social game. A popular choice, though, so others are happy. 

[Wandering Snark]

I believe the concept was that it was/could be a new 'block' each week, seeing people "allign" on for that vote when it could be people that were not together on the previous vote and won't be together for the future. So it was 'work with whoever can get you the majority vote' rather than 'Vote the way you and your most trusted allies would want you to vote.' It's that weekly shifting that supposedly made it "unique".

[SnideAsides]

And this is something I have been confused about all season... what exactly is the difference between "alliance" and "voting blocs"?  An alliance is a group of people who work together to accomplish the same goal, i.e., get the person out they want out.  A voting bloc is a group of people who work together to get the vote to go their way, i.e., get the person out they want out.  There must be a subtle difference that I'm missing.  It could be that people had multiple alliances because of all the tribal switches.  But hasn't that been called a "suballiance" in past seasons?

As best as I can tell, nothing at all. But I get the feeling Rob Cesternino promised Stephen a cut of the sales from his Evolution of Strategy podcasts at some point, so Stephen probably tried to sell that the game was changing much more than it actually was. Except pretty much nobody bought it.

[vb68]

 

I thought I would be more OK with a win for Jeremy, but call me cynical, but I thought it was an extremely cheap play for him to play the "my wife is pregnant" card.

 

I'm with you.  I thought it was  shameless and yeah,  a rather cheap play.  I mean, I know it's fair and they should use any trick they have, but it still made me groan.

Edited December 17, 2015 by vb68

[pennben]

Okay did Jeff say next season they were doing something different?

 

If he did, based on the previews, it seems like they actively try to kill them next season!

Edited December 17, 2015 by pennben

[LanceM]

Wasn't Jenna the first to win with a unanimous vote?

 

 

If he did, based on the previews, it seems like they actively try to kill them next season!

 

Nope. She won 6-1. Butch voted for Matthew.

[Skeeter22]

When Jeremy announced he and Val were expecting, it just seemed like he was running up the score. He already had it in the bag.

[pennben]

Yeah, I caught my mistake too late!

[LanceM]

After watching the last few Ponderosa's Jeremy had this in the bag though I think Kelley might have beaten him. So, Jeremy definitely made the right decision voting her out.

Edited December 17, 2015 by LanceM

[pennben]

I thought I would be more OK with a win for Jeremy, but call me cynical, but I thought it was an extremely cheap play for him to play the "my wife is pregnant" card.  I thought he performed very poorly at final tribal.  Spencer's answers were great.  They showed growth and maturity.  Tasha also performed well.  But Jeremy was a bit weak.  Especially the answer to Keith's question about why Spencer should win.

 

Hmm.  Based on the questions shown, I thought Jeremy destroyed Spencer at final tribal (even before he told the new son story).  Spencer's "I've grown" was destroyed when he had to say, basically, "I've grown but for that last tribal (or two) where I regressed to being an arrogant sod, but believe me, that was just a blip, I'm a real boy now".  Jeremy in answering about his arrogance turned it around and said he was hurt and angry at Kimmi because he had defended Kimmi and believed in her, so when he was betrayed by her, he got angry.  He also shut Kimmi down about him excluding her, saying that he never excluded her from his final three....she did that to herself.  I honestly can't peg an answer that Spencer fielded better than Jeremy at tribal.

Edited December 17, 2015 by pennben

[LanceM]

So Stephen tweeted this tonight.

 

Stephen Fishbach ‏@stephenfishbach  34m34 minutes ago
If Jeremy boots Spencer - Wentworth wins

[pennben]

I could absolutely have seen that happening.  I really thought it was a pretty easy decision for Jeremy between voting out her or Spencer.

[PaperTree]

I wish they would do a celebrity Survivor, once at least.

No thanks.  It could easily degenerate into "I'm a celebrity, get me out of here!" kind of dreck.  It would hurt their "brand".  From "Facts of Life" whatshername to the pro-athletes, I've never liked "celebrities" on this show.

[Daisy]

Nope. She won 6-1. Butch voted for Matthew.

Notable "I Owned This" Votes:

Jenna - the first landslide vote - winning 6-1. (before this, Ethan was the closest winning 5-2. in the first 10 seasons, Tom (Palau) and Chris also won by this amount). 

Sandra 1.0 - also won 6-1. (this is by the way the woman's "perfect game" as no woman has ever won unanimously. 

 

From Seasons 11-20

Danni Won 6-1

Earl had a Unanimous Vote (First one. He would have had a perfect game if not for the one throw away vote earlier in the season)

J.T. had the Unanimous Vote and the perfect game (no votes cast against him, no votes ignored via idol, swept the finals - Jeff, naturally had this wrong in his reunion)

Natalie (Samoa) had a 7-2 Smackdown of Russell

 

 

From Seasons 21-30

Boston Rob had a smack down of 8-1 

Kim won 7-2

Denise won 6-1 (I can't remember if she had votes. Same with Kim. I'll see if i can find it tomorrow)

Cochrane won 8-0. (which sucks. I was so on team Dawn)- and if I'm reading this table right, he had a perfect game.

Tyson won 7-1

Tony Won 8-1

Mike won 6-1

 

(wow. that that is a LOT of blowouts).

 

and then Jeremy has the quasi perfect game as he had all is votes nullifed - and won with the sweep

 

so 3 perfect games. (or 2 + 1*).

[Ms Blue Jay]

Ugh.  I'm still unhappy about Samoa!  That still makes no sense to me.  Though I love how this reiterates what a great player Earl was and what a great season Fiji was. That's off topic though.  I am going to coalesce and make sense of my thoughts on this beautiful finale and post tomorrow sometime.  What a great season it's been. Thanks to all and to all a good night!

 

I have to say, on the topic of celebrities, I absolutely adored Taj from SWV being on the show.  I was so star struck and enamoured.  And being that my favourite show is Seinfeld, it was cool of Jonathan Penner to be on the show too.  Those celebrities I thought were amazingly cast and great, entertaining players.  All throughout Cook Islands I knew I had seen Sundra before but it took me a few episodes to use IMDB and put it together that she had been on one episode of Sex and the City.  I know these are not Brad Pitt-level celebs, but they're good enough for me (they're the kind of 'smaller' celebrities from the kind of pop culture that I adore, and from my most treasured time period!)

Edited December 17, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[LadyChatts]

When Jeff was talking to Spencer about his regrets this season, what was the deal with Kelley Wentworth?  They cut to her with a look on her face and swishing her hair.

[Guest]

Wow, the men are so spray-tanned.  Did they stop in the Dancing with the Stars studio?   Varner looked like he was ready to Samba with Karina.  And Andrew's hair had lost all that brassy orange color.  Interesting.  

 

I didn't understand why they acted like Keith should've played his fake idol.  By then the votes were cast, he goes home regardless.  What am I missing?  

 

Kelley was getting on my nerves.  She's a little overly boisterous-- all the OTT laughing and blabbing and reacting.  When Keith said the word 'balls' she acted like it was the funniest thing she'd ever heard.  

 

Wow, Jeremy in a shut-out.  I thought around episode 2 the editing telegraphed his win but I had hoped I was wrong.  I can't begrudge him it.  I was impressed with his very careful answers in the pre-final tribal.   I could see the wheels turning.   I think he fell apart at the last challenge because he knew he had it in the bag from there.  

[Daisy]

Ugh.  I'm still unhappy about Samoa!  That still makes no sense to me.  That's off topic though.  I am going to coalesce and make sense of my thoughts on this beautiful finale and post tomorrow sometime.  What a great season it's been. Thanks to all and to all a good night!

 

I have to say, on the topic of celebrities, I absolutely adored Taj from SWV being on the show.  I was so star struck and enamoured.  And being that my favourite show is Seinfeld, it was cool of Jonathan Penner to be on the show too.  Those celebrities I thought were amazingly cast and great, entertaining players.  All throughout Cook Islands I knew I had seen Sundra before but it took me a few episodes to use IMDB and put it together that she had been on one episode of Sex and the City.  I know these are not Brad Pitt-level celebs, but they're good enough for me.

 

 

I think how survivor does their celebrities work. 

Like - I liked Lisa (once she killed the water waterworks and actually played), and I didn't mind Gary Hawkins, Hogewhoo? Hogeboom ;), and even jeff Kent (and I love me Penner). they work for me - because they want to play the game. they aren't using it to be famous, they aren't there to be all "how famous I am, look at me" they'll tough it out. 

 

I would seriously tap-out if it was an entire season of celebs though. 

[pennben]

I didn't understand why they acted like Keith should've played his fake idol.  By then the votes were cast, he goes home regardless.  What am I missing?  

 

 

I think they are saying Keith should have pulled it out before the vote, thus shaking one of the three loose to vote with Kelley/Keith. 

[thefog]

I thought I would be more OK with a win for Jeremy, but call me cynical, but I thought it was an extremely cheap play for him to play the "my wife is pregnant" card.  I thought he performed very poorly at final tribal.  Spencer's answers were great.  They showed growth and maturity.  Tasha also performed well.  But Jeremy was a bit weak.  Especially the answer to Keith's question about why Spencer should win.

 

Even Stephen said that most of the jury viewed Tasha as doing Jeremy's dirty work so he didn't get dirty.  I'm always confused as to why the guy who doesn't get his hands dirty gets rewarded.  If anything, reward Tasha for making herself a target.

 

It just left a bad taste in my mouth that he cries and says he's having a son and he wanted to tell people but didn't seems to have won him a million dollars.

I disagree that Jeremy used the sympathy card to pander votes. The jury is not that gullible - or generous.  He pretty much had this win when he made Final 3.  He had played a better social game and stay true to his alliances.  It wasn't sympathy that he won in a landslide.

 

And since Spencer and Tasha didn't get any votes, they will split the $100K for the runner-up.

Edited December 17, 2015 by escape

[millennium]

 

 

It just left a bad taste in my mouth that he cries and says he's having a son and he wanted to tell people but didn't seems to have won him a million dollars.

 

 

 

I never liked Jeremy (or his wife).    This season his game-play seemed to consist of sitting around being paranoid and placing his faith in the wrong people (Fishbach, Kimmie).   Spencer played a better game.   So did Tasha.   And so did Wigglesworth.   I hoped for one last blindside in the final vote but as soon as Jeremy started the sappy "my wife is pregnant" bullshit I knew it was a done deal.   Spencer knew it too.   You could see it in his face.   It actually surprises me juries still fall for that kind of blatant manipulation.    

[LanceM]

I never liked Jeremy (or his wife).    This season his game-play seemed to consist of sitting around being paranoid and placing his faith in the wrong people (Fishbach, Kimmie).   Spencer played a better game.   So did Tasha.   And so did Wigglesworth.   I hoped for one last blindside in the final vote but as soon as Jeremy started the sappy "my wife is pregnant" bullshit I knew it was a done deal.   Spencer knew it too.   You could see it in his face.   It actually surprises me juries still fall for that kind of blatant manipulation.    

 

Jeremy already had the game in the bag once he voted out Kelley. The only thing the preganancy story did was probably turn an 8-2 win into a 10-0 win.

[millennium]

Jeremy already had the game in the bag once he voted out Kelley. The only thing the preganancy story did was probably turn an 8-2 win into a 10-0 win.

 

I don't see it that way.

[Rick Kitchen]

Ugh, detested Jeremy before the season began, and detest him even more now. Being fertile means you deserve the win?

 

So Vytas isn't there because he's having surgery?  Yeah, right.

[breezy424]

Maybe I'm the only one, and I have nothing against Jeremy, but I was disappointed that he won.  I guess I like the players who 'play' and struggle and stratagize.  I never got that from Jeremy.  His so called game was boring and lucky.  Except for the whole my wife is pregnant with a son at the end.  I guess I feel this way because there was so much interesting game playing and strategy going on throughout the season. 

 

I would have rather seen Kelley or Keith win.  They had so much more to overcome.

[Zuleikha]

If Jeremy boots Spencer - Wentworth wins

Yay, confirmation that Wentworth probably could have beaten Jeremy. (and was almost certainly the only person who could have done that.)

 

This season really was Jeremy vs. Kelley: the battle of the idol whisperers.

 

Spencer played a better game.   So did Tasha.

Survivor isn't just about getting to the end; it's about getting to the end in such a way that people will vote for you once you're there. Tasha set her alliance with someone she had to know would beat her if she went to the end with him. Jeremy was always going to be given the credit for any moves they made together. I think Spencer flat out played an inferior game to Jeremy. He didn't build any bonds with people to motivate them to vote for him. He had his chance after the Stephen boot to come out of Jeremy's shadow and instead, ran right back into it.

[LanceM]

I don't see it that way.

 

The jury did though. The Ponderosa videos made that clear as did Stephen on twitter tonight. In fact based on comments made in Ponderosa I think Kimmi would have won against Spencer and Tasha too.

Edited December 17, 2015 by LanceM

[blackwing]

Jeremy already had the game in the bag once he voted out Kelley. The only thing the preganancy story did was probably turn an 8-2 win into a 10-0 win.

I'm not so sure. Kimmi was really upset with him, she looked like she was crying as soon as she sat down. But she is a mom, so I bet she just gave him her vote because of the pregnant card.

If I were on the jury, I would have voted against Jeremy for his admission that he was mad at Kimmi. Survivor shouldn't be about voting emotionally. When that vote was Kimmi/Tasha on revote and Jeff revealed that Keith would go home if it was still a tie, I was surprised Jeremy and Spencer didn't use that opportunity to get rid of Keith. Keith was a threat in the challenges whereas Kimmi was typically dead last. All it would have taken would be for Jeremy to say he wanted to vote out Kimmi and Spencer to say Tasha and Keith goes home

[MarquisDeCarabas]

 

Kelley was getting on my nerves.  She's a little overly boisterous-- all the OTT laughing and blabbing and reacting.  When Keith said the word 'balls' she acted like it was the funniest thing she'd ever heard.  

 

 

To be honest Keith said he had ball saviness and had absolutely no idea what that sounded like.  It cracked me up a lot too.

 

I don't know if the Tribal where Kimmy went out sunk Spencer, but the one after that sure did, I didn't mind the move, but I can see how it backfired, he pushed way too hard. 

 

In retrospect I think Spencer screwed up earlier when he went after Stephen.  I think he went a little on tilt that Stephen beat him to the advantage and was if i can't have it I'll make sure he goes home. 

[Katesus7]

I believe these savvy jury members came into the final tribal with a clear thought of who they were going to vote for. Savage making a point of saying their votes were all up in the air told me all I needed to know (because I think he sucks at all the things, and is usually wrong). The votes were probably 90% locked in. If they did not want to vote Jeremy, him making an incredibly obvious play on how he's going to be a new dad would give them a perfect reason not to. These people pride themselves on being veterans, on not voting based on emotions. They liked Jeremy. They did not like Spencer or Tasha. And, they saw Jeremy as the leader. They did not see Spencer or Tasha as leaders.

I mean, really. Kass? Abi? Wentworth? Ciera? Thinking that of course they had to vote for Jeremy because he was going to have a baby? Nope, don't see it.

[pennben]

There was one thing that caught me off guard in the reunion.  When Stephen was talking about Joe being his JT, Jeremy literally broke in (and I think they had to turn his mike on) saying something to the effect of, "Stephen, it didn't matter, there was always someone else that was going to pop up to be your JT even after Joe left."  I was really surprised at that, I'm not sure what he was going for, but he seemed to be saying Stephen will always finish second.  Perhaps he was saying that he thought Stephen would always find another boogeyman and wouldn't see himself as the one to win?

[candall]

That last FTC question was something like:  "Identify what it is you changed between your first season and your Survivor 'Second Chance'?"  Spencer and Tasha were reasonably responsive, but Jeremy substituted going all verklempt about his wife and children and the new in utero.  Effective gambit, apparently, but what, did he not love Val and the kids last time around?   Is there someone for whom a million dollars wouldn't have a swell impact back on the homefront?

 

Cranky, Part II:  Can they not contain that first show within its two-hour time slot?  I appreciate Jeff didn't showcase Boston Rob or any rando tweens from the audience, but still, "The Reunion Special" was almost a quarter over before we got around to the first question for the players.  (I love the reunion.  I'd gladly switch it around and make that the two-hour segment--there's never enough time.)

[Kenz]

Katesus7 said:

 

"Wigglesworth was the worst recast ever. Useless from beginning to end. Did she think she was being cute with her jury question? I wanted them all to pick the number 2 just to give her a proverbial middle finger. Go away, and get back to being a hermit."

 

I totally agree. Does she ever move her face? Her whole demeanor is blah.

[pennben]

I kinda loved her question at final....it was surprising, to me anyway, and had a bit of a vibe of 'you want old school, I'll give you old school'!

[Artsda]

That was such a great finale episode. Happy for Jeremy.