S02.E11: 211

[Ellaria]

But I don't see anything there that looks like a motive to kill Scotty.  Even if he is the hedge fund guy, he wasn't relying on investing in the Lobster Roll with Scotty to save him, or else he would have been at the foreclosure auction.

 

Neither do I...not yet, anyway. If we had information indicating that Scotty misspent some of Max's money in a bad investment or if there was a drug deal gone bad, then perhaps. But so far, IMO, I don't see a motive, mostly because there isn't a definitive connection between the two.

 

The bathroom office was ridiculous. He could have had a corner of the dining room or their bedroom.

 

Completely ridiculous. There are many solutions, including partitioning off one of the many rooms in that apartment

 

This episode had a lot of dumb packed into it. The biggest was...if Noah's story is that he hit a deer, not Scotty, and that's why his car needed to be repaired, who gives a shit if Max testifies that Noah hosed some blood off his car in Max's driveway? That still tracks with the deer hitting story. It's not a very damaging thing that Richard Schiff should worry over, honestly. That was a lazy reveal.

 

I have been wondering about Noah's "deer defense" for a few weeks. Is he still sticking with that story? If so, Max's testimony isn't so damning. If Schiff can make the "deer defense" stand up in court, then everything else - including the DNA from the pacifier - may not be necessary.

 

Noah was outraged because Alison had not been honest with him but he still has not mentioned that his divorce is final. Charming!

Edited December 14, 2015 by Ellaria Sand

[evilmindatwork]

I am beginning to think that Alison is just very, very inarticulate, and completely incapable of communicating her feelings, needs, and desires to anyone including herself.

Edited December 14, 2015 by evilmindatwork

[TV Diva Queen]

Random thoughts:  

1)  Max did it.  He lied on the stand that Noah pulled up into his property and hosed down the car.  Max hosed down his own car - he's doing CYA for to the forensic team when they find the blood

2)  Noah's bathroom office.  Is the MOST RIDICULOUS THING I'VE EVER SEEN.  Put a freaking desk in one of the two unused kids room.  When his kids come to visit, take your laptop out and work at the dining room table.

3)  Am I the ONLY person that thinks the kid is Scotty's.  Isn't there a video that Schiff showed up on this lap top and with Scottie and Alison fighting, and then Schiff says that Scotty says "Its our baby".  I may have made that up, but I don't think so.  

Edited December 14, 2015 by TV Diva Queen

[attica]

I wanna think that the bathroom/office is a figment of Noah's POV. Because, yeah, that's nonsensical, and I can totally picture Noah whining about having no good place to work and poor-me-ing that he's stuck in the toilet.

[beaker73]

They had the apartment prior to the sale of Alison's house.  My guess is that Noah paid for the apartment, nanny and Alison's schooling.  Meanwhile, the house sells and now she has the money from that.  She gives Cole some of the profit - we don't know how much though. Was it a 50/50 split?  I don't know NY marital law so I have no idea if she was required to give him anything.  Maybe Cole's share was not enough to buy the Lobster Roll outright so he approaches Alison for the rest.  

They had the apartment prior to the sale of Alison's house.  My guess is that Noah paid for the apartment, nanny and Alison's schooling.  Meanwhile, the house sells and now she has the money from that.  She gives Cole some of the profit - we don't know how much though. Was it a 50/50 split?  I don't know NY marital law so I have no idea if she was required to give him anything.  Maybe Cole's share was not enough to buy the Lobster Roll outright so he approaches Alison for the rest.  

I thought it was maybe because the kids were in the house and he wanted quiet time to focus on writing? I think it's in Noah drama queen nature to do that, mostly so he could make Alison feel guilty for turning his "office" into the baby room. He could have easily sat in a corner of the living room and put some headphones to focus. I'm sure Noah can afford noise canceling headphones. 

I think he did it to show he was poor put upon Noah being forced to write his next great brilliant novel in the shitter.  

[attica]

I wanna think that the bathroom/office is a figment of Noah's POV. Because, yeah, that's nonsensical, and I can totally picture Noah whining about having no good place to work and poor-me-ing that he's stuck in the toilet.

[jrlr]

I think that Noah's "office" being in the bathroom is completely a figment of his imagination, even though I can't think of a more symbolically perfect place for his crappy writing to take place.  I have absolutely no idea what Alison is doing or why, and at this point I don''t even really care.  I liked this episode, but there was so much stupidity going on that I gave up trying to make sense of it,  I just  kept thinking, "Oh wow, they have gone full bore into soap opera now, and it's actually more entertaining than the show has been for weeks."  Oh well, if it continues to be so stupidly entertaining I'll (maybe) tune in next season  to see if J.R. is really dead or Fallon comes back from the grave.  

[Anna525]

 

3)  Am I the ONLY person that thinks the kid is Scotty's.  Isn't there a video that Schiff showed up on this lap top and with Scottie and Alison fighting, and then Schiff says that Scotty says "Its our baby".  I may have made that up, but I don't think so.  

Back at the other thread for episode 10, a poster interpreted "it's our baby" to mean it's a Lockhart baby. Mama Lockhart had mentioned the curse and yet here is Alison with a baby which Scotty seems to be sure belongs to Cole, since he caught them back at Alison's Montauk house. 

[TV Diva Queen]

Back at the other thread for episode 10, a poster interpreted "it's our baby" to mean it's a Lockhart baby. Mama Lockhart had mentioned the curse and yet here is Alison with a baby which Scotty seems to be sure belongs to Cole, since he caught them back at Alison's Montauk house. 

ahhhhh.  Makes sense.  I binged Seasons one and two this past week; and its hard to keep on on the threads.  Thanks.

[islandgal140]

If Noah is getting up in the middle of the night to work, he could work anywhere in that house since it would be quiet.  He didn't have to be in the bathroom.

 

Well, there has been some commentary based on the excerpts read on the show that his writing is shit so......makes sense to me.

 

 

I guess this is just Alison reacting again in her usual passive-aggressive way: She feels uncomfortable in Manhattan, it's where Noah turned into such an egomaniac asshole, so her solution is to take her opportunity to force him out of Manhattan. I think that passive aggression may be the key to Alison -- she looks like she's out of control and needs rescue, she certainly sees herself as lost and victimized, and yet she always seems to get her way in the end. 

 

Very well said. I think Alison is a human wrecking ball with the agility of a cat which always lands her on her feet - so far. As far as who done it, to me Alison is just as big a suspect as Whitney.  At first, I thought it was more Whitney given her craziness over Scott and Helen being ever so helpful in getting Noah an attorney (who at this point doesn't seem worth the cost IMHO), getting Joanie's DNA and basically just being in Noah's corner playing cheerleader when basically she should be giving him the deuces. However, based on the episode of them meeting during Whitney's college tour and Noah's book tour, I just think she will always have the feels for him (rolls eyes hard enough to sprain eye muscles) and would be coming to his rescue simply because he is Noah and father of her babies. 

 

When it comes to wanting Scotty dead, Alison has the most to lose because as Scotty said - Joanie not being Noah's would blow up some worlds. Plus, there does seem to be some swirling darkness around Alison and even she has admitted to having done a lot of bad things. I just wonder what they are. 

[RedInk]

My really basic take on Noah's whole writing-in-the-bathroom farce is this: he's having trouble with that Great American Novel he's pitched, and he's transferring the blame to Alison. If only he had a quiet space to write with no distractions! He was resentful of losing his office even before the book came into play - the office is freedom; the nursery is responsibility. 

 

I'm another one with a soft spot for Max. He's obviously flawed, but in stark contrast to Noah, he owns his shortcomings. I've never seen him make excuses for himself or his poor choices. OK, and I've had this awful, nagging feeling that Helen might be the one who ran Scotty down. I talked about it in the Speculation thread, and how she seemed to be acting guilty to me. Then this ending with Max...what would cause him to voluntarily testify against Noah (assuming he wasn't at fault)?  

Edited December 14, 2015 by RedInk

[Constantinople]

Working in the bathroom makes perfect sense for Noah given what a POS Descent was.  If he does write a sequel, he should call it The Baker, not Ascent, in honor of pinching off another loaf.  Either that, or there's some kind metaphor going on involving writer's block and constipation.

 

ETA:
 

Well, there has been some commentary based on the excerpts read on the show that his writing is shit so......makes sense to me.

Beat me to it!

Edited December 14, 2015 by Constantinople

[Ellaria]

OK, and I've had this awful, nagging feeling that Helen might be the one who ran Scotty down. I talked about it in the Speculation thread, and how she seemed to be acting guilty to me. Then this ending with Max...what would cause him to voluntarily testify against Noah? I can think of one thing. I so hope I'm not right. 

 

I never considered Helen as a possibility...

 

...until I saw the previews. She seems to be in attendance at Cole's wedding. She is sitting in a chair on the beach next to her mother. Safe to assume that she is there because Luisa's mother has been their housekeeper for many years. At the very least, that puts her in the right place to have committed the murder. The big question, for me, is why would she kill Scotty?

 

I still think that it was Alison, attempting to keep Joanie's paternity a secret. And if so, Noah knows that she is guilty and he is covering for her. Then, Max is lying about the car, hose, etc. (Unless Noah did hose off the car after Alison hit Scotty.) It seems to be getting unnecessarily complicated.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Ellaria Sand

[blixie]

 

Then, Max is lying about the car, hose, etc.

 

Not if Noah was covering for her, Alison hits Scotty, he tells her to get lost, he drives to Max's house used the hose, then takes the car to the shop and tells the Deer Story. I still think it's either Alison or Whitney, there was SO much Whitney and now none, although given what an a-hole Scotty is I'd love if Alison and Helen tag teamed him Helen pushing him in front of an Alison driven car (probably Noah's). Heh complicated yes, but in fun Telenovela way!

Edited December 14, 2015 by blixie

[heatherchandler]

Ok, this is getting ridiculous.  Does it feel to anyone else like the writers NEVER laid out the actual time-line?  It just...things do not add up.  They should have actually mapped it all out on paper or something - laid it all out, so they could refer to their OWN story. 

 

I feel like they ended one place last season (Noah and Alison happy and married) and now they realize they should not have ended them there, so they are ret-conning all over the place. 

 

It feels off and weird.  I don't think Treem or the writers actually know what they are doing.  It is like every episode is random and this is not a cohesive narrative!

Also, dear lord I HATE Luisa.  I mean, I really hate her.  I wish she was the one to get run over.

[CleoCaesar]

I felt a good deal of sympathy for Max. He wasn't being a swaggering blowhard, he was just kind of quiet, scruffy, and sad. Noah can eat a bag of dicks. You don't OWN Helen; you CHEATED on her; she can have sex with whomever she wants.

 

Noah is still the worst, but Alison is running a close second. Selfish, miserable tools, they are.

 

Happy, smiling, adorable Cole continues to freak me out.

[Cyranetta]

So Alison is now Dorothy, where Manhattan is Oz, and Montauk is Kansas - I find her "there's no place like home" new direction not terribly convincing.

[panthergirl13]

Everything else has pretty much been covered, but can we talk about how god-awful the courtroom scenes are in this show? I thought S2 of Broadchurch was the worst in that regard, but this is a close second. WOW. 

 

The murmur-murmur-murmur when the 'surprise witness' was called made me think I was watching The Simpsons. It "litrally" made me laugh out loud.

 

I have come to believe that Richard Schiff's exasperated eye-rolling is not acting at all.

[Former Nun]

Also, dear lord I HATE Luisa.  I mean, I really hate her.  I wish she was the one to get run over.

 

 

Ouch!   I don't understand the hate.   Help me out here, people.   She's more of a nonentity for me...and a temporary one at that.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Former Nun

[izabella]

Ok, this is getting ridiculous.  Does it feel to anyone else like the writers NEVER laid out the actual time-line?  It just...things do not add up.  They should have actually mapped it all out on paper or something - laid it all out, so they could refer to their OWN story. 

 

I feel like they ended one place last season (Noah and Alison happy and married) and now they realize they should not have ended them there, so they are ret-conning all over the place. 

 

I wish I remembered that scene when Noah is arrested at home better.  Can someone remind me what in that scene showed them as happy?  Body language?  Something they were doing or saying? 

 

I felt a good deal of sympathy for Max. He wasn't being a swaggering blowhard, he was just kind of quiet, scruffy, and sad. Noah can eat a bag of dicks. You don't OWN Helen; you CHEATED on her; she can have sex with whomever she wants.

 

Yes, and the Max we saw is Noah's perspective on the scene, so even Noah sees him as more sad than a threat. 

 

Lol, for all we know, in Max's POV, he was freshly showered, dressed in expensive "lounge around the house casual wear,"  sipping mimosas while checking his stock portfolio and whistling at that fantastic view.

Edited December 14, 2015 by izabella

[ScoobieDoobs]

Well, he's been really effective in the role of Scotty for me.  Playing a charming loser is usually a thankless task anyway.  I think he's done really well showing some pathos even as the character degrades further into drug addiction.

Just for comparison, could you tell me who's acting you've enjoyed?

 

Well, let's see if Colin gets many acting gigs after this.  I suspect not.  Sorry, but this guy overacts a storm.  He sucks & he sucks badly.  Maura, on the other hand, is wonderful.  I've always thought she was good.  But this season she's exceptional & totally deserves the Golden Globes nom she got.  She should at the very least get an Emmy nom too.  No, Colin as Scotty is dreadfully bad.  He is good looking & has good hair.  Will that get him cast in other things?  When his acting is this terrible, me doubts it.  And I'd bet a month's rent on Noah's Tribeca joint on it -- I'm just that sure of how shitty Colin's acting is.  I don't blame Treem for how annoying Scotty is.  But I do blame her for not casting a really cute actor who can actually act.

 

I've said it before, Colin sticks out like a sore thumb on this show -- because all actors on here are quite good, to varying degrees, of course.  I liked Dominic & Ruth much better last season.  They're still compelling to me, but much less so this season.  Julia/Whitney is good.  She's an interesting presence, but Treem needs to direct her to tone down the screeching & whining some.  I missed her in this ep & last one -- not so much the screeching & whining tho.

 

Joshua has been pretty good this season too.  Altho happy/smiley Cole is jolting me, that's only because we've been so inundated with sulky/angsty Cole.  I think Josh Stamberg is quite good too.  And he showed in this ep he's quite capable to play more than just a ho-hum rich douchebag.  Cherry is not an especially well-written character, but Mare is always dependably good, even when thrown really dopey lines to say.

 

By now, Richard Schiff's arrogant blowhard/windbag shtick & the predictably heavy sighing is bugging the absolute piss outta me.  I'll be glad for the courtroom scenes to finally end & he'll hopefully be gone for good.

 

I'd like to see more of Margaret.  Has she actually come to understand that her behavior has driven everyone away from her?  Kinda doubt she could ever change, but I'm curious.

Edited December 15, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[izabella]

Lol, ScoobieDoobs!  Poor Colin Donnell.  He's currently one of the lead characters on the new Chicago Med series, and he was on Arrow as well.  I think he started out doing some stage acting on Broadway? 

[Lemons]

What I'm annoyed by is, we don't get a sense of who Alison really is -- even from her POV.  We are getting a clear pic of what people around her think of her -- Oscar, Noah, Cole & even a bit from Luisa & Helen & Noah's agent & Jon Gottlief.  But not from Alison herself.  Gah, Treem, this is maddening!  Is it because Alison doesn't know herself?  Nah, that's dopey.  It's cuz Treem is holding out on us.  

 

I'd like Alison to share her suspicions about Joanie's daddy.  Talk, Alison!  Tell us who the fuck you are!  And Treem, will ya fuckin' direct Ruth to close her mouth, for shit's sake -- and wipe the drool coming outta there, please?

 

 

Is PTV acting nuts today?

 

Which character is Treem?  You keep mentioning it.  A lot.

[JenE4]

As many people have already said, it's ridiculously over-the-top to have Noah using the bathroom as an office. He could easily move his laptop from bedroom to dining room to empty kid's room on an off weekend, etc. The same thing with Allison quitting school for SIX WEEKS and going off to who knows where all day while the nanny is with the kids and then going off to buy a business with her ex without talking to Noah about it. But because apparently Treem and all the writers "are Noah" and love and relate to him, I think we're supposed to see this as a huge sacrifice on Noah's part. Noah gave up his chance at greatness to be a "good" husband and father (even spending an hour writing to that ungrateful Whitney daily!) and THIS is the treatment he gets in return?! He SHOULD have ran off to France. And, frankly, if he was out of the country, then he wouldn't be on trial for murder right now. This is all from HIS perspective of course. So if we saw it from Alison's it's possible she attempted to discuss all of this with him, and he just yeah-yeahed her without listening. Because it's all about Noah, but Noah thinks Alison is all about Alison, and Whitney is all about Whitney, and Max is all about...well, Helen--but let's make that all about Noah! And let's throw in Oscar and Scotty and Luisa and Mrs. Lockhart all sobbing about their own bad luck. And, hell, even Margaret was trying to make Luisa's wedding all about herself! Frankly, this whole episode was just exhausting and made me not give a damn about ANY of these people! The only selfless ones on the bunch are that poor nanny schlepping around town working overtime to gather Solloway kids from near and far because the parents are MIA and the lawyer who's earning every penny of his fat paycheck--despite it not going in his favor.

[Muffyn]

I'm glad everyone else commented on the over-whelming stupidity of Noah supposedly writing in the bathroom at 4:30 AM.  Hmm.  Large luxurious apartment with a living room and dining room in which he could comfortably set himself to write while every else is asleep or hunched over a bathroom vanity?  I'm pretty sure Noah is stretched on the couch free-balling with tasty snacks at the ready.  While he might like to tell us he is long-suffering, I just don't see it.

 

I rather enjoyed Oscar's take on Alison. While he is wholly reprehensible, there may be a grain of truth in his assessment.  We know Alison sees herself as a perpetual victim.  Certainly that can lead some people to want to save her.  She's very good at being passive aggressive.  While I don't feel sorry for Oscar, he may have a point about her.   

 

While I know we are supposed to see a great separation between the haves and have nots in Montauk, it still doesn't make sense that Cole's last name did not come up in any discussions about the wedding until this point.  That was one awkwardly written scene.  The Gorgon's line was like something out of a soap opera - you're brother impregnated my granddaughter and you held a gun to my (former) son-in-law's head!  It didn't ring true to how she would have approached it.  Especially off, I would expect her to thank him for pointing a gun at Noah.  Too soon?  

[ScoobieDoobs]

Which character is Treem?  You keep mentioning it.  A lot.

 

Sarah Treem produces & co-created this show.

[Lemons]

Sarah Treem produces & co-created this show.

oh.  Who did she co-create it with?  Not that I would know them but I'm wondering if it was a man or woman who was involved in coming up with this story.

[HumblePi]

We had to wait until the second to the last episode of this season to find out that Alison is a scatterbrained, thoughtless wrench? Suddenly she's completely irresponsible and non-communicative to Noah about dropping out of college six weeks ago and she impulsively ran to Montauk to get into a deal to buy the Lobster Roll after getting a call from him just one day before? This episode was way far out of the realm of reality that I'm starting to really hate the writers for grasping desperately at last minute straws with this story line.

 

Alison has a little girl and she's in a committed relationship with Noah. Does she think that spending her million bucks to buy the Lobster Roll is all she needs to invest? That place is a total dump and needs a few hundred thousand dollars in renovations to be able to reopen it to the public. Where is she planning to live while all that is being done. 'Splitting time between Montauk and Manhattan' ?   WTF Alison, even I'm pissed off at you. How could she possibly think there could be amicable living arrangements made with Noah on this one? It's like she suddenly lost her mind and any sensibility. I hope the hell the writers aren't going to have Alison and Cole reconciliate because that would make me absolutely hate both her and Cole for leaving poor Luisa behind in their dust. Did Cole even talk to Luisa about this and if he did, how could she possibly think that arrangement with Cole's ex-wife be okay with her?

 

I'm beginning to wish they were all run over by a car on a foggy morning on a desolate road in Montauk and be done with them all.

[truthaboutluv]

Did Cole even talk to Luisa about this and if he did, how could she possibly think that arrangement with Cole's ex-wife be okay with her?

 

 

Yes he did. There was a scene of him bringing up the idea to her. The scene we weren't shown was him calling Alison about it. But after they left Helen's parents and were discussing spots for the wedding, Cole brings up The Lobster Roll and talks about buying it and says he would need someone else even with his share of the money from Alison's house. That's when he says to Luisa when she's hesitant that if she's concerned that it would lead to him going back to Alison, that would never happen (and yes longtime television viewers probably felt like that was a massive anvil dropping). Luisa is hesitant at first and says no but then eventually changes her mind.

[HumblePi]

I'm glad everyone else commented on the over-whelming stupidity of Noah supposedly writing in the bathroom at 4:30 AM.  Hmm.  Large luxurious apartment with a living room and dining room in which he could comfortably set himself to write while every else is asleep or hunched over a bathroom vanity?  I'm pretty sure Noah is stretched on the couch free-balling with tasty snacks at the ready.  While he might like to tell us he is long-suffering, I just don't see it.

 

I rather enjoyed Oscar's take on Alison. While he is wholly reprehensible, there may be a grain of truth in his assessment.  We know Alison sees herself as a perpetual victim.  Certainly that can lead some people to want to save her.  She's very good at being passive aggressive.  While I don't feel sorry for Oscar, he may have a point about her.   

 

While I know we are supposed to see a great separation between the haves and have nots in Montauk, it still doesn't make sense that Cole's last name did not come up in any discussions about the wedding until this point.  That was one awkwardly written scene.  The Gorgon's line was like something out of a soap opera - you're brother impregnated my granddaughter and you held a gun to my (former) son-in-law's head!  It didn't ring true to how she would have approached it.  Especially off, I would expect her to thank him for pointing a gun at Noah.  Too soon?  

And the most ridiculous thing for me was that the old bitchy, crotchety, grouchy 'stick up her ass' Margaret Butler suddenly became a gracious hostess to her NON-ENGLISH speaking Colombian maid that's been working as a servant at her estate for 25-30 years!!  SAY WHAT??!

[Ellaria]

Where is she planning to live while all that is being done. 'Splitting time between Montauk and Manhattan' ?   WTF Alison, even I'm pissed off at you. How could she possibly think there could be amicable living arrangements made with Noah on this one?

 

That was my reaction, too...where will she live? Is she buying a home or moving in with (fill in the blanks)? It certainly isn't a commutable distance. 

 

It seems like a lot of contradictions. After desperately wanting to leave Montauk, she now decides that she belongs there despite having Noah, a swanky apartment, a baby and four step children in NYC. And she made this decision overnight. And how does this decision square up with the Alison that we saw in the future timeline in S1? She seemed very committed to her NYC lifestyle at that point. Also, if Alison and Cole are running the new Lobster Roll together, why was their reunion in the court house (at Noah's arraignment) so awkward...as if they hadn't seen in each other in quite awhile. Maybe more information is coming in the next episode.

 

Personally, I would much rather own/run the Lobster Roll and live in Montauk than be married to Noah and spend time with his kids in NYC.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Ellaria Sand

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

All About The Affair's Not-So-Great Scott
Can Scotty hurry up and get himself killed already? No? You mean we have to watch Cole and Alison go into business together and Noah get all huffy about it first? Aw, man....

[Superpole2000]

I had no idea this show was going to fall apart. The main characters are repulsive...actually repulsive! Allison is the lowest of low, and her partner isn't too far behind her.

 

But what gets me the most is that so many major events make no sense. In this episode alone, we had Allison hiding the dropping out from Noah (and avoiding her newborn) and the joint venture between Cole and his ex-wife that defies logic on so many levels. How could a team of writers think this is plausible?

 

The sad thing is that they are wasting pretty good actors. The show is steering towards a dramatic reveal about Scottie's death, which was probably the least interesting direction this show could have gone. And based on the logic of the writers in this and other episodes, I can say with almost certainty that the reveal of what happened will be illogical, ambiguous, and/or dissatisfying. Oh, and it will somehow make the main characters seem even worse than they already are.

[cardigirl]

Well, let's see if Colin gets many acting gigs after this.  I suspect not.  Sorry, but this guy overacts a storm.  He sucks & he sucks badly.  Maura, on the other hand, is wonderful.  I've always thought she was good.  But this season she's exceptional & totally deserves the Golden Globes nom she got.  She should at the very least get an Emmy nom too.  No, Colin as Scotty is dreadfully bad.  He is good looking & has good hair.  Will that get him cast in other things?  When his acting is this terrible, me doubts it.  And I'd bet a month's rent on Noah's Tribeca joint on it -- I'm just that sure of how shitty Colin's acting is.  I don't blame Treem for how annoying Scotty is.  But I do blame her for not casting a really cute actor who can actually act.

 

I've said it before, Colin sticks out like a sore thumb on this show -- because all actors on here are quite good, to varying degrees, of course.  I liked Dominic & Ruth much better last season.  They're still compelling to me, but much less so this season.  Julia/Whitney is good.  She's an interesting presence, but Treem needs to direct her to tone down the screeching & whining some.  I missed her in this ep & last one -- not so much the screeching & whining tho.

 

Joshua has been pretty good this season too.  Altho happy/smiley Cole is jolting me, that's only because we've been so inundated with sulky/angsty Cole.  I think Josh Stamberg is quite good too.  And he showed in this ep he's quite capable to play more than just a ho-hum rich douchebag.  Cherry is not an especially well-written character, but Mare is always dependably good, even when thrown really dopey lines to say.

 

By now, Richard Schiff's arrogant blowhard/windbag shtick & the predictably heavy sighing is bugging the absolute piss outta me.  I'll be glad for the courtroom scenes to finally end & he'll hopefully be gone for good.

 

I'd like to see more of Margaret.  Has she actually come to understand that her behavior has driven everyone away from her?  Kinda doubt she could ever change, but I'm curious.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about Colin. I like what he's done with the role. I agree with you about most of the rest of this, in that I like Josh's Cole, Maura's Helen, and all the rest. I think the cast is phenominal. And yeah, about Colin not working again, he's already starring in Chicago Med. Or whatever that new Chicago based medical show is called.

[ScoobieDoobs]

And the most ridiculous thing for me was that the old bitchy, crotchety, grouchy 'stick up her ass' Margaret Butler suddenly became a gracious hostess to her NON-ENGLISH speaking Colombian maid that's been working as a servant at her estate for 25-30 years!!  SAY WHAT??!

 

Yeah, ain't it just a wee bit hollow to make grand offers which you know will never in a zillion years be accepted?  I don't buy for a second Margaret has changed.  She made her point of view on Cole quite clear.  He's the brother of the lowlife sleazeball who knocked up her granddaughter.  Oh, and he wanted to (or sorta tried to) kill Noah.  Yeah, there's that too.  And Cole is supposed to feel comfy with having his wedding at her house?  Please.  Helen is justified in staying away from her.  I wonder if she even sees the grandkids.

Edited December 15, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[FeverDog]

Don't get it.  Angry Scotty says to Cole "I could tell you something that would f up your world!!" But.... doesn't Cole know that he himself had sex with Allison and the approximate age of the child? I mean, it's not like Scotty knows some secret. Why does everyone act like Cole needs to be told?

[izabella]

Cole seems removed from Joanie, like he hasn't met her until the courthouse scene, and doesn't know much about her.  If Allison had the baby early but he didn't know she was early, he could count backwards and believe she was already pregnant when they had sex. Also, Allison's child with the guy she left him for might not be high on his list of things he wants to think about.

Edited December 15, 2015 by izabella

[Constantinople]

Some thoughts about Max

 

I'm not sure how much time elapsed between Noah stopping by Max's new place in Montaulk to talk about Alison and Max's testimony, but I don't see why Max suddenly came forward to testify.

 

I also don't understand the theory that Max is the killer.  He doesn't seem to be hurting financially, and I don't know what motive Max would have for killing Scotty.  If Max turns out to be the killer, it will feel like a cheat, partly because Max somtimes seems more like a plot device than an actual character.

 

Max may turn out to be Scotty's hedge fund guy, but given how little Scotty can put up of his own funds, and how obviously strung out he is, I find it hard to believe any businessperson would be willing to be partners with Scotty.

[briochetwist]

Some thoughts about Max

 

I'm not sure how much time elapsed between Noah stopping by Max's new place in Montaulk to talk about Alison and Max's testimony, but I don't see why Max suddenly came forward to testify.

 

I also don't understand the theory that Max is the killer.  He doesn't seem to be hurting financially, and I don't know what motive Max would have for killing Scotty.  If Max turns out to be the killer, it will feel like a cheat, partly because Max somtimes seems more like a plot device than an actual character.

 

Max may turn out to be Scotty's hedge fund guy, but given how little Scotty can put up of his own funds, and how obviously strung out he is, I find it hard to believe any businessperson would be willing to be partners with Scotty.

 

I totally agree. Max didn't get to where he is by partnering up with broke ass drug addicts like Scotty.  

[truthaboutluv]

Don't get it.  Angry Scotty says to Cole "I could tell you something that would f up your world!!" But.... doesn't Cole know that he himself had sex with Allison and the approximate age of the child? I mean, it's not like Scotty knows some secret. Why does everyone act like Cole needs to be told?

 

Because it clearly seems to be understood and accepted as fact that Noah is the father of Alison's baby. YMMV but I truly believe Cole has never considered or entertained the thought that Joanie could be his. Yes, he and Alison slept together but that probably seems like such a lifetime ago to Cole, especially with him moving on with Luisa, that I can absolutely believe he never thinks of it and if he doesn't think of it, then he's certainly not considering that the baby is his. Not to mention I'm sure he would not think that's something Alison would keep from him.

 

I totally agree. Max didn't get to where he is by partnering up with broke ass drug addicts like Scotty.

 

Not sure about anyone else but I never considered that if Max is guilty, he ran Scotty down because he owed him money or anything like that. I think one issue is many seem to be assuming whoever ran Scotty down did so on purpose, which hey, considering how douchy Scotty was, I get that. However, it is entirely possible that Scotty's death was an accident and whoever did it just panicked and fled the scene. So Max could have been high and ran him down accidentally and left and he's been quiet and removed from the whole situation ever since.

 

Now Noah is arrested and maybe Noah really did show up at his house cleaning up his car and so he goes and admits this which isn't really a lie, even though he knows Noah couldn't have done because he did. Now I will say, the only hitch in that theory for me is that even despite their awful fight, I feel like Max would not be that hateful and vindictive to Noah but you never really know. 

Edited December 15, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[Miss chi chi]

I felt like the joint business venture was a contrivance to keep Cole tied to the other three.

A good lawyer could have discredited max easily based on their history. Isn't it true you have always been in love with Helen. Isn't it true you loaned Noah 50000 and he never returned it. Isn't it true you have always been jealous of Noah and told him that on ___________date. Isn't it true you want him to go to prison because you hate him........

I think that Alison killed Scotty, but Helen and Noah are sacrificing everything because they think Whitney did it.

[krpa]

I'm really wondering what the big secret Scotty wanted to tell Cole was. I think Cole is able to put 1 and 1 together and see that he could be Joanie's father. If him and Alison are buying a business together, I think they would be talking about other stuff too and he would know when the baby was born. So it must be something else.

It was weird that Noah had Alison's number saved as Alison Bailey. It keeps changing every episode.

 

So the prefect ending would be Alison found gulity of Scot's death and getting life imprisonment. Since the baby is Cole's, he and Louisa would get custody of Joanie and their own little family they thought they'd never have. Helen would find out that dr. Ullah was sex adict and an alcoholic, who cheated on her since the beginning of their relationship. So Helen would be heart broken again and Noah would save her. Whitney would hook up with Max on one of those "model" parties and realise he's the love of her life. They'd move in together, Max would pull some strings and get Whitney some  bikini modelling jobs.

[Miss chi chi]

Oh, and now that I hate Alison, I think she looks like pennsatucky

[truthaboutluv]

I'm really wondering what the big secret Scotty wanted to tell Cole was. I think Cole is able to put 1 and 1 together and see that he could be Joanie's father. If him and Alison are buying a business together, I think they would be talking about other stuff too and he would know when the baby was born. So it must be something else.

 

I don't think there's been any indication that Cole suspects the baby could be his. Scotty's secret was about Joanie...nothing else makes any sense and nothing else has been hinted or suggested IMO. And the baby paternity is clearly a big bombshell in the writers' eyes which is why they ended on the cliffhanger of Noah's lawyer getting the results and not saying what it said. 

 

The only thing that gets confusing about Cole and the paternity in my opinion, is that infamous look he gave Alison at the start of the season that most now assume was his finally putting it together. However that was at Noah's arraignment and we saw him this episode testifying at the trial. So I'm wondering if he questioned or confronted Alison at all about what he suspected in that moment. 

Edited December 15, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[JenE4]

Cole also TRULY believes in his family curse of not being able to have a child, so I think that's another reason (in addition to the baby being born 5 weeks early) that it would never dawn on him that the baby is his. And it does seem that the courthouse was the first time he met Joanie and put 2 and 2 together when he saw the same family resemblance that Scotty saw. But if they're business partners, one would presume he may have seen the baby before. So I wonder whether Noah made Alison give up her share of The Lobster Roll in order to marry him--or maybe Alison always intended to be a silent partner, and they just mail her profit checks.

[PiEatingContest]

I guess what I don't understand is why this is being treated as a murder mystery/prosecution drama in the first place.  Scotty was walking down a dark, twisty road, probably while high/drunk, and got run over and left for dead.  It's not like he was shot or stabbed, it was an accident.  The worst crime was probably leaving the scene and maybe driving recklessly or while impaired.  It was night of a big wedding of a scion of a well known townie family, and given how may people we've seen driving while impaired (Helen, Noah, Cole and probably Max too) it could have been anyone drunkenly making their way home.

 

It's not like Noah just happened to be driving along, came across Scotty, and said, "hey! there's that guy that knocked up my daughter 3 years ago!  I think I'll floor it and kill him!"  Someone was probably driving recklessly, killed him, and drove off in a panic.  I can't believe the prosecution even has a case at all.

[HumblePi]

So many comments about Noah's office being in the bathroom, I guess that next novel will be nothing more than a piece of 'crap'. (Publisher: "I can't print this, it's shitty!")

I guess what I don't understand is why this is being treated as a murder mystery/prosecution drama in the first place.  Scotty was walking down a dark, twisty road, probably while high/drunk, and got run over and left for dead.  It's not like he was shot or stabbed, it was an accident.  The worst crime was probably leaving the scene and maybe driving recklessly or while impaired.  It was night of a big wedding of a scion of a well known townie family, and given how may people we've seen driving while impaired (Helen, Noah, Cole and probably Max too) it could have been anyone drunkenly making their way home.

 

It's not like Noah just happened to be driving along, came across Scotty, and said, "hey! there's that guy that knocked up my daughter 3 years ago!  I think I'll floor it and kill him!"  Someone was probably driving recklessly, killed him, and drove off in a panic.  I can't believe the prosecution even has a case at all.

I'm tending to agree with this since there's really nobody that had a motive to intentionally kill Scotty.

[Blakeston]

Another thing about money that makes no sense on this show:

 

There was a lot of speculation that the reason Noah and Alison were able to afford that spectacular NYC apartment was because she was helping pay the rent with the proceeds from the house sale. But now it turns out...nope. Noah's advance (which wouldn't all have gone directly to him) was somehow able to pay for that place, along with everything else in their lives.

[right]

Don't get it.  Angry Scotty says to Cole "I could tell you something that would f up your world!!" But.... doesn't Cole know that he himself had sex with Allison and the approximate age of the child? I mean, it's not like Scotty knows some secret. Why does everyone act like Cole needs to be told?

 

I agree, how could Cole not put the pieces together and think "maybe, I'm the daddy"?  Especially after what Scotty said about blowing up his world, Cole has not been shown as an idiot.

 

Therefore, I'm going out on a limb here.  I don't recall actually seeing Cole "pour the coals" (little play on words) to Alison in that scene at the beach house.  Is it possible that they only kissed and cuddled without going through with sex?  Maybe, that night Scotty showed up on the deck he only assumed Cole and Alison had sex.  That would explain why neither Alison or Cole has mentioned the possibility of Cole being Joanie's dad.  They've hinted at Alison contemplating it, but it's never been spoken, only sideways looks.  I realize this would be a totally fucked way the writers could take this situation, but I wouldn't put anything past them at this point.

[AsanteSana]

The scene between Noah and Max ranks as one of my favorites for the whole season. The realization that your best friend has been in love with your girlfriend then wife for decades would really put anyone over the edge regardless of how much an asshole they are. I'm relishing thinking of all the sleepless nights Max caused Noah after that reveal: Noah replaying family vacays, holidays etc in his mind when the 2 families were together over so many years.

Between that and accidentally getting horny around Whitney and her friend in the hot tub = lots of emotional torment for Noah. Khama!