S05.E11: Swan Song

[FierceAfroChick]

This episode was "quit the show" levels of stupid. I just despite it for some reason.

I feel you. I loved the Snow/Emma moment, Emma/Hook and Zelena. But everything else was head scratching WTF shit. Regina should not have been the one to talk Hook down. It shouldve been Emma, hell why not David since he alluded to it before. Regina should not have been shoe horned in this arc, it should've been all about Emma/Hook. Hook's sacrifice was good, but it felt so recycled. Daddy Hook was kind of wasted and the Liam 2.0 thing is just too much. I felt offended by that.

Emma on a mission to find her man made up for it in the end though.

[Actionmage]

Belle comes back because Henry calls her?!  Grandson-by-marriage or not, if I had already told my husband that he'd broken my trust too many times and he told me to see the world, I'd stay gone. Because a) how do I know for certain it's really Henry?, b) like there haven't been threats of death that Rumple has faced before and he's still here, and c) I'm going to explore a world where magic has no sway over me! Eff off grandson-by-marriage, Rumple can hang.  Sorry that your crazy, magic-riddled family has problems, but I am out of the sanitarium called Storybrooke and I can do things I want! *sigh*  I like Emilie. Belle had an interesting start. It's just that now there is nothing for her to do but act in odd ways ( not quirks, but story-sense) and take magically induced naps.

 

I bet that Granny is watching over Snowflake while the fairies are pulling babysitting duty for Robin.  Hopefully, she is teaching him how one does home repairs, as she seems to be the only other practical character, outside of Grumpy.   Sorry, Granny- can't get a scene with your granddaughter and you only get one adventure-lite per season.

 

DarkCaptain Swan wasn't horrible, but I could see better paths, which just disappoints me. The overall direction, not the actors or the acting. I did not watch the entirety of the season, but that was because I got angry watching what I did. That no matter what the characters did, the status quo was rigidly reset with Rumple and Regina getting what they want and in the most horrible fashion. (This is not a bash, but a critique on presentation of character.)  Regina disregarded the birthparents' opinions, left no room for Robin and Zelena to talk anything out between themselves and just threw her sister- an newborn's mom- into another dimension. Then, as pointed out,  feels the need to stay with said newborn or to get back to being mayor? No, she goes to the underworld!  Robin is no better, especially as he goes off on this trip too!

 

Rumple? Can die now. Not to be mean, as I adore Robert Carlyle, but I have hated him, loved him, hated-to-love-him, loved-to-hate-him and am now bored. Because Rumple is seemingly the oldest of the regular characters, he's also going to know more, if not everything. It's not hard to look smarter when you have magic and time. Thanks to his clean heart from last season's finale, he now has both as well as Encyclopedia Darkcana in his head. 

 

I love Ginny and Josh, but the stuff they are made to act? I have no appropriate words. I remember S1 and the amazing bond between Snow and Emma, without knowing about the blood ties. A concerned question, a frowny look and  a hug with a ' We love you' isn't enough.  Instead of a lonely family sitting in a dim, apparently closed Granny's, they could have been at the hovel or looking for Emma. Why? Because they know better than to let the woman the rely and demand be their Savior is on duty 24/7/365 and almost always chooses the hardest road for herself.

 

I wanted to like this story, Emma going dark and being Bad/Evil. Even Emma not being the Darkest Dark could have been infinitely mesmerizing, but it was just...meh?  Individual performances were great, don't get me wrong.  The story just felt like story beats told before and we're back to square one. Ready for Player Two/ Season Part B.

[Lieutenant]

He really did. It's the most consistent thing about him. Well basically he loves hard

Liam 2.0...I can't show. I just can't.

 

^THIS.  I will fully admit that I love the Jones boys probably more than any other characters on the show.  So this little development led to some table flipping on my part.  I can't say I blamed Hook for losing it after he found out the kid's name was Liam (a.k.a. the real baby do-over).  I mean what the actual hell?!  Liam (GOD I'm SO PISSED I now have to specify which one I'm talking about now - ugh!) was his whole world, and the only truly good man Killian ever knew.  I think I would probably blow a fuse if I found my sorry excuse for a "father" had another kid and named him after the one he willingly abandoned to a life of slavery.  Oh he's a reminder to do better this time?  Well that makes it all ok then, yeah?  What is it with this show and it's unholy need to ruin characters (new or old) by saddling them with names and expectations of past characters?!  *rage*  There is only ONE Liam Jones that I will accept, dammit!  

 

Wow.  I needed to get that out, I guess.

[InsertWordHere]

Something else that annoyed me- the Dark Ones teleported their replacements to the lake but it's only get the Nevengers crew plus Robin. There were like 21 Dark Ones (which is about 11 too many) and didn't we see some of them about to mark the dwarves? Why weren't they at the lake?

 

And where the hell (get ready, I will be making hell jokes all hiatus) is the boar? And Zoso?

[snarkastic]

Re: Liam 2.0 I just kept thinking good thing he didn't have ANOTHER kid. Probably would've named him Killian.

[Mari]

And where the hell (get ready, I will be making hell jokes all hiatus) is the boar? And Zoso?

Maybe only the ones that wanted to go be Dark Ones again went? Zoso definitely wanted out of the job.

Re: Liam 2.0 I just kept thinking good thing he didn't have ANOTHER kid. Probably would've named him Killian.

I just figured that was his middle name.

[ParadoxLost]

Re: Liam 2.0 I just kept thinking good thing he didn't have ANOTHER kid. Probably would've named him Killian.

I was waiting for a reveal that his middle name was Killian. At some point we will find out that Liam 2.0 was a Lost Boy or comes after Hook for revenge or both.

[Katherine]

I didn't get the impression that the kiss before Hook died was a TLK. I feel like if it were, it would've been highlighted as such. I mean, as fans we can interpret it however we want; I just don't think that's what the writers were going for.  But I much prefer the theories created on these boards to the actual writing of the show, so I'll go with it.

[snarkastic]

I just figured that was his middle name.

 

 

I was waiting for a reveal that his middle name was Killian. At some point we will find out that Liam 2.0 was a Lost Boy or comes after Hook for revenge or both.

 

You guys are awesome. I vote we just call Liam 2.0 Lillian to avoid confusion... Ah, crap. That's not going to be very helpful. LILY. Lillian. Curse you, writers!!!

[chrisvee]

I don't think it was a TLK. Excalibur cut the darkness out and Rumple's magic spell had it funneled over to him.

I don't get how everyone and their brother can now use magic.

There was so much retconning in the last 3-4 episodes that I just can't even with this show anymore. The writers don't earn the emotional payoff. Two Killian death scenes in one half season? Please.

And we're back where we started with Rumple. Except is he now effectively Nimue??

And I darn well wouldn't be leaving my kid with the fairies.

Edited December 7, 2015 by chrisvee

[Rumsy4]

But I much prefer the theories created on these boards to the actual writing of the show, so I'll go with it.

 

The theories we come up with are always more detailed and complicated than what happens on-screen. lol

[Sandman]

Thanks for reducing Excalibur to nothing more than a cheap plot device, you soulless bastards. "Oh, I happened to have a little leftover magic in my cupboard, so I turned the greatest weapon against evil in all of folklore into a conduit, blablablah..."

[HoodlumSheep]

How about we call Liam 2.0 Wyatt? Wasn't that the name of Piper's kid in Charmed? And wasn't there a storyline that involved him from the future. Could totally happen on this show. Future Liam 2.0 is the big bad of season 6.

I vote for Wyatt.

At least for Neal 2.0 we can call him Snowflake, and I figured if anyone names their kid Graham, we'd just call him Baby Grahamcracker.

Also, the next poll should be what we're going to officially call Baby Green Bean. Green Bean, Baby Hood, Pistachio...

Hopefully Liam 2.0 has a middle name that's not Killian, and we can call him by that.

Edited December 7, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Shanna Marie]

Belle comes back because Henry calls her?!  Grandson-by-marriage or not, if I had already told my husband that he'd broken my trust too many times and he told me to see the world, I'd stay gone. Because a) how do I know for certain it's really Henry?, b) like there haven't been threats of death that Rumple has faced before and he's still here, and c) I'm going to explore a world where magic has no sway over me! Eff off grandson-by-marriage, Rumple can hang.  Sorry that your crazy, magic-riddled family has problems, but I am out of the sanitarium called Storybrooke and I can do things I want!

Yeah, that was weird. I was cheering for the idea of her exploring the world and then maybe coming back (and it would have made an excellent cover for maternity leave), since one of the defining traits for her character was a hunger for adventure. I thought that her going off to see the world was a sign of how mismatched they are, that the woman who wants adventure is married to the guy who'll never leave home if he can help it. But the really odd thing was that if Henry called her, then likely it was about what had happened. So that means she should have had the news that one of her friends had sacrificed himself to save the town and then died. Her friend was dead, and another friend was bereaved, and Henry must have been pretty upset to have called her, and instead her response upon coming back to town because of this is to go fawn over Rumple for his selflessness and then apparently go straight to bed, without even (that we saw) an attempt to check on Emma and Henry. I mean, Hook sacrificed himself, but Rumple is the real hero because he told Belle to leave town and lied to her about the danger?

[Katherine]

The theories we come up with are always more detailed and complicated than what happens on-screen. lol

I'm still sad that the theories about Merlin's prophecy actually referring to Hook and not Arthur didn't end up coming true!

 

Seriously, though. I don't need to Hook to be a secret king. I don't need him to be a completely harmless Dread Pirate Roberts-type. But I'm still having a little trouble with arguably the most loyal character in the series suddenly trying to send his girlfriend's entire family (including her child) to hell just because he's mad at her. Even Rumple would have never done anything like that to Belle. Too far, writers.

[ParadoxLost]

Also, the next poll should be what we're going to officially call Baby Green Bean. Green Bean, Baby Hood, Pistachio...

I'm calling her Baby Hood because as she grows it will become Child Hood, Adult Hood, and maybe someday Parent Hood. Zelena will kidnap her and change her name during her teenage years.

Edited December 7, 2015 by ParadoxLost

[InsertWordHere]

That flashback was just sketchy as all get out. From cutting out the middle part of Queen of Hearts when we saw Regina toss the hat on the floor right after making her offer, to the unnecessary wardrobe change for both of them (especially Hook who has never changed vests mid-adventure when time travel wasn't involved), to Papa Hook's phony sounding sleeping curse story. So Hook just  goes back to the castle, changes back into his original vest, and cheerfully picks up Claude to go to Woderland? And he and Regina never allude to this incident again, even when she thinks he killed her mother or when he consoles her after Cora's actual death? And why does he even need to prove his mettle after she just saw him almost kill Belle, a mere stranger to him, which is exactly what Cora was to him at the time? Seriously, writers? There has got to be some sort of fuckery going on here. (I know, it's just these writers, I know) The only thing that kind of fits is that he lied to her about Cora, just like he was prepared to lie to her about his father's fate.

Edited December 7, 2015 by InsertWordHere

[Sandman]

I'm calling her Baby Hood because as she grows it will become Child Hood, Adult Hood, and maybe someday Parent Hood. Zelena will kidnap her and change her name during her teenage years.

Yeah, but she'll only be one kingdom over, so she'll still be Neighbour Hood.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Sandman

[Rumsy4]

You guys with the Hood jokes! hahaha

[Hookian]

So with this amazing episode. Are A and E forgiven for 4x11?

[MaiLuna]

OK so that was a lot but it didn't feel as rushed as last year. I'm glad how Killian turned around (I thought I wouldn't be okay with it) but him killing his dad was hard to watch. I'm glad to see Emma have so much hope but for some reason I wasn't so emotional over Hook's death. Weird. I'm happy that at least I didn't hate Emma killing him. It made more sense than I thought.

I love how we had pretty much all the episode figured out and then we find out "Boy" in the press release was Liam 2.0. Wow. And Hook killed his dad just a few feet away from him!

 

I was so glad when Rumpel let Belle go. Then I wasn't so happy she came back. And then we find out he's the biggest DO again and I can't see how they can redeem him or the relationship ever again.

 

Music score: A++

Edited December 7, 2015 by MaiLuna

[LizaD]

This show is so stupid, I think I literally felt my brain cells dying in agony while half watching, half fast forwarding it. This is probably the point I wave my white flag. Neither Robert nor a short stint of suited Robbie Kay, nor going, "well at least the actors are giving it their all,"  is going to do it anymore.

[KingOfHearts]

Got to love Belle... "You lied to me again!" *passionately kisses him*

 

 

Thanks for reducing Excalibur to nothing more than a cheap plot device, you soulless bastards. "Oh, I happened to have a little leftover magic in my cupboard, so I turned the greatest weapon against evil in all of folklore into a conduit, blablablah..."

A fake Excalibur was able to take on all the dark magic... and get this - kill immortal Hook. Only Excalibur can kill a Dark One? Whatever. I thought Emma's meeting with Gold in his shop was a dream at first. It makes more sense to have PTSD dream than for her to still hear the voices.

 

Won't Arthur be ticked his sword is in half again? He better come up again in 5B. He still hasn't fulfilled his prophecy to save Camelot.

Edited December 7, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[tennisgurl]

So, I have not had a chance to finish the episode (I was spoiled even going into this episode though. Plus I`ve already read this thread and got on Twitter), and, while I want to watch the episode before making a real reaction post I just have three big thoughts:

 

Poor Hook has really had a crappy life. Granted, some of that crap was due to his own bad choices, but still, he has not had an easy time of it. Being sold by your own father for a row boat as a little kid is pretty damn brutal. 

 

Captain Swan is just killing me with the angsty love. How can I watch the episode, I cant even look at pics on Tumblr. 

 

What the hell was the point of Merida and Camelot? 

[retrograde]

Amy Manson is RTing some bitter stuff from fans about the lack of closure for her character. A few days ago she wrote "Can't wait for you both to see what #merida does in the mid season finale", so... I'm guessing a bunch of stuff was cut.

[InsertWordHere]

So with this amazing episode. Are A and E forgiven for 4x11?

I was never mad at them for 4.11, but this episode was full of such stupidity that it certainly wouldn't be enough for me to forgive them for any of their past transgressions. In my case the worst offender is probably the eggnapping plot.

 

To be clear, I didn't hate the episode, but they're going to have to try a hell of a lot harder than that to make up for their weak, nonsensical, plot-driven writing. Giving me some nice character kitchen sink moments would be a nice start, so I know why I am rooting for these people to have happy endings. Shiny toys, big emotional moments, hugs, and weak explanations of surprising plot twists are not going to be enough.

 

Poor Hook has really had a crappy life. Granted, some of that crap was due to his own bad choices, but still, he has not had an easy time of it. Being sold by your own father for a row boat as a little kid is pretty damn brutal.

Yeah, he has. I hate to compare how sucky different characters lives have been, but wow, his is right up there with Emma's. Even Malcolm made sure Rumple was being cared for by the spinners.

Edited December 7, 2015 by InsertWordHere

[Artsda]

Belle's an idiot. Each episode she bounces back and forth with Rumple and his becoming the dark one again, just made her again look stupid. 

 

Hook dying was sad, loved that ending with him and Emma. I will kind of miss them both as dark ones. 

 

So Emma's trying to blackmail Gold, but then proceeds to tell Regina, Robin, her parents and Henry the dirt she has on him? She doesn't know how blackmail works? She's supposed to keep it a secret so it's leverage. 

 

They're taking Henry to the dark world? Any what did Regina/Robin and The Charmings do with their babies before this trip? Drop them off at Franny's long term day care? 

 

Interesting to see Hook back story. I guess his brother will show up at some point.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Artsda

[HoodlumSheep]

I was wondering how some of the Camelot actors would react. Amy seems to have a very...strong personality. Can't exactly blame her though. I'm surprised they cut out all the Camelot stuff.

The Camelot stuff should have been tucked in between Hook's death and Emma confronting Gold.

How are they going to wrap it up? Have a random flashback of them sending the Camelot crew on their merry way? Stick in the footage at the end of 5b when the heroes inevitably win and return home?

I bet Adam and the writers are going to get hounded on twitter.

Edited December 7, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[KingOfHearts]

 

Amy Manson is RTing some bitter stuff from fans about the lack of closure for her character. A few days ago she wrote "Can't wait for you both to see what #merida does in the mid season finale", so... I'm guessing a bunch of stuff was cut.

 

What the hell was the point of Merida and Camelot?

As much as I didn't care for Merida or Camelot, they were still the focus for a major section of the arc. We didn't get any conclusion on them, Merlin, or even really Nimue. Why was it that she was the only one who could save them? She was like a mindless zombie at that point with her undead brethren. Why wasn't Merida's necro-water coming into play? A&E made us sit through a bunch of crap thinking it would lead somewhere. Turns out that was all irrelevant.

 

I hope no one got invested in Arthur, Guinevere, Lancelot, or Merida.

 

 

- What was up with the oversexed Evil Queen?

If you're going to shoehorn Regina in, actually utilize her. She only got two short scenes in the flashbacks and a few random pep talks in the present. She just wasn't needed.

Edited December 7, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

I have watched this show sober all season and decided tonight was the best time to break with that, so I busted out the rum. Sadly, it did not help. I know I was supposed to be emotional or something, but mostly I was just annoyed.

 

Some things:

 

- I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate that Emma (& Hook too) suffered immeasurably for nothing. Fuck this show's hope mantra. I despise you forever for this.

 

- Belle came back because Rumpel lied to her? What? Also, he sent her out of town with potion, but didn't tell her to take her dad? So Maurice could have been marked and dragged to the Underworld too? And what about Henry? Could he have escaped his marking if he's crossed the town line? Or could all of Storybrooke been saved by this potion? How the fuck long would it take to make some more of it? Belle is a moron of epic proportions.

 

- The conduit to Rumpel becoming the Dark One was the biggest WTF moment this show has ever had and that's saying a lot.

 

- I'm glad I was proven that Rumpel is just a terrible person and he doesn't just get a pass as a hero now. Also, yay to Emma and Hook for being awesome people who showed that the Darkness can be beaten when you don't suck as a person.

 

- What was up with the oversexed Evil Queen?

 

- Papa Jones sucks hard. And were the writers just taking up a dare on how they couldn't possibly name a child more inappropriately than Neal? Liam 2.0. Wow. Although I did note that Regina/Robin left town without actually naming their baby, so it could be topped. I vote for Pistachio, Zelena.

 

- Poor Guinevere. Still sanded and stuck with her asshole of a husband. I guess he's still locked up though, so there's that.

Edited December 7, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[kili]

Was taking Killian off by the paramedics really necessary? Have they ever shown paramedics before?

 

Paramedics rushed Killian into the hospital after he was run-over by a car. The paramedics are only there for Killian.

 

So, Papa Jones (his name has to be Liam, doesn't it? That's why he gave his two first-born's the same name) traded his boys for some guy for a row-boat? Was that guy just rowing around in the middle of the ocean? Dressed in black? Nothing suspicious about that. Was he a Dark One making a deal or the Ferryman?

 

Did I hear correctly and Hook's Mom was also traded into slavery? I'm thinking that didn't end well for her. 

 

I'm still not sure that Papa Jones deserved death. He apparently was redeemed and despite his love of the name Liam, aren't we supposed to forgive redeemed villains? They could have gilded the lily a bit by not having him ask for two letters and be planning on dumping Liam 2.0.  Or have him take some harlot instead.

 

I totally don't know how Rumple managed to pull over the fast one (I can totally accept that he would try it) or that he could hold that much darkness when the Apprentice couldn't.  Whatever. 

 

Rumple is totally planning on ditching those guys in the Underworld. Why would he ever bring Emma back? He doesn't take well to blackmailing.

 

Belle is a chump. 

 

Emma saving Hook in Camelot did nothing, but get Merlin killed. I'm kind of okay with that. They should dig him up and kill him again. What is with his idiotic voice-mail? The guy is a total menace.

Edited December 7, 2015 by kili

[retrograde]

I was wondering how some of the Camelot actors would react. Amy seems to have a very...strong personality. Can't exactly blame her though. I'm surprised they cut out all the Camelot stuff.

The Camelot stuff should have been tucked in between Hook's death and Emma confronting Gold.

How are they going to wrap it up? Have a random flashback of them sending the Camelot crew on their merry way? Stick in the footage at the end of 5b when the heroes inevitably win and return home?

I bet Adam and the writers are going to get hounded on twitter.

 

They could have so easily resolved this by not using the extra episode order for that pointless Merida and Mulan adventure and saving it for this episode, too.

[Camera One]

I don't even know what to say.  The episode had a number of good emotional moments with Emma and her family, and with Emma and Hook, and the climatic scene with Hook sacrificing himself was sad.  But the "twist" at the end with Rumple left a really bad taste in my mouth.

 

I was half joking that Rumple would become the Dark One again, because the Writers don't know how to do anything new.  But I didn't expect it done in the dumbest way possible, so quickly.  I thought the whole dilemma at the end of 4B was that no human could contain all that Darkness?  I mean, it killed the Apprentice.  Emma knew she had to sacrifice herself to take the Darkness on because she had light magic. So why can Rumple take all the Darkness in again?  Why would his weak heart be better just because the Darkness was taken out of him?  

 

Why would a fake Excalibur absorb the Darkness from all the other Dark Ones?  And if it was the real Excalibur, how did stabbing Hook transfer all the Darkness to Rumple?  The whole concept of how Darkness can be transferred from one person to another makes no sense anymore.  Why is the Dagger separated from the Sword again?  Couldn't Hook have apparated the Sword with all the Darkness across the town line?

 

I'm annoyed because we are getting another re-tread story. We've already seen every variation of Gold dealing with being the Dark One.  We've already watched an entire season of Rumple deceiving Belle.  Who wants to see this yet again?  The writers clearly have zero interest in writing anything that remotely deviates from their cookie cutter recipe.

 

It's not that I wanted to see Arthur, Guinevere, Lancelot, Merlin and Merida again.  But this finale rendered the entire half-season utterly pointless.  Everything we found out about Excalibur, the Dagger, Darkness, etc. was all pointless. And Merlin's Obi-Wan Kinobe message about Nimue is now even more nonsensical.  He died for nothing... literally.

 

So Hook got to join the "How I Killed My Father" Club, eh?  I guess once you become a villain again, you do get a good flashback.  Except for the club-you-over-the-head verbatim bedtime fear speech.   

 

I guess once you run out of things to do with a character, you can just tornado them out of there, and then bring them back again with renewed vengeance, for more retread.  Sending her to Oz is so foolproof.  Not.  

 

It was a little ridiculous how Rumple was all "Say goodbye to your father, and take a trip outside Storybrooke", and Belle just did it immediately.  What if she didn't want to leave that night?  WTF?  

 

So it's that easy to open a portal to the Underworld?  And all you need to do to bring back the dead is to split your heart in half?  So Regina could split hers to get Daniel back, and Robin can split his to get Marian back, and Henry can split his to get his dad back, right?  The funniest part of the episode was when they ALL decided to go to Hell.  Smart to skip the conversation where they decided that was a good idea because that would have been completely incomprehensible.  

Edited December 7, 2015 by Camera One

[Dianthus]

I started to tear up when Hook begged Emma to take him out (the big difference between this and the Buffy/Angel scene), but I was watching it with someone else, so I'm kinda glad I didn't lose it completely. Interesting, though, that this was about Hook deciding what sort of man he wanted to be...like Spike.

I despise Rumple (and the writers too) for crapping on Hook's sacrifice. Emma is in a better position (with her magic) to blackmail Rumple than Hook was.

I'd really like to think that a trip to the UW will actually, FINALLY lead to the humbling of Regina and Rumple. They're both long overdue for a resounding bitch slap.

[Hookian]

Well Hook did tell Regina about how she'll see all those people she killed in the UW and how good luck trying to tell them you've changed.

[AmeliaBedelia]

Paramedics rushed Killian into the hospital after he was run-over by a car. The paramedics are only their for Killian.

 

Emma saving Hook in Camelot did nothing, but get Merlin killed. I'm kind of okay with that. They should dig him up and kill him again. What is with his idiotic voice-mail? The guy is a total menace.

 

Hehe to the first part. The paramedics took me out of the scene for a bit. Perhaps the dwarves should have carried Hook off or something.

 

Merlin was pretty, but he was oh so useless.

[Dianthus]

It was pretty great seeing DO Hook take on Regina, even if it was only for a moment.

[Mathius]

But I'm still having a little trouble with arguably the most loyal character in the series suddenly trying to send his girlfriend's entire family (including her child) to hell just because he's mad at her. Even Rumple would have never done anything like that to Belle. Too far, writers.

But he didn't try to send them to Hell because he was mad at Emma. The other Dark Ones tried to send them to Hell, which Hook is culpable in causing but his motive was all about Rumple getting sent to Hell. It had nothing to do with Emma and her family, they were just collateral damage in his revenge plot because that's how villain Hook works.

[Zuleikha]

I actually liked Arthur and Camelot, so I'm particularly grumpy that it was all basically filler. Why not just keep Arthur as the good king and Camelot as the fairy tale kingdom if it all was purposeless and had nothing to do with Dark Swan?

 

Amy Manson is RTing some bitter stuff from fans about the lack of closure for her character. A few days ago she wrote "Can't wait for you both to see what #merida does in the mid season finale", so... I'm guessing a bunch of stuff was cut.

I don't Twitter... could she have something set up so that her Twitter retweets anything using her hashtag? It seems awfully bold for her to retweet tweets saying things like she should never come back to Once because she's way too good for the show.

 

I had this theory that surely the writers must have some amazing plan for Robin and Zelena's baby or why else would they stick to the plot when fans uniformly hated it? Ha! They can't even be bothered to name the baby! Seriously, they should have just started 5A with Zelena giving herself a magical abortion during that time when she had the cuff off because she realized she didn't want to be a mother after all. 

[Curio]

Amy Manson is RTing some bitter stuff from fans about the lack of closure for her character. A few days ago she wrote "Can't wait for you both to see what #merida does in the mid season finale", so... I'm guessing a bunch of stuff was cut.

 

Responding in the writers thread.

[Camera One]

But he didn't try to send them to Hell because he was mad at Emma. The other Dark Ones tried to send them to Hell, which Hook is culpable in causing but his motive was all about Rumple getting sent to Hell. It had nothing to do with Emma and her family, they were just collateral damage in his revenge plot because that's how villain Hook works.

 

It's a little ambiguous to me.  The Dark Ones sure lucked out that everyone in Storybrooke went to bed at 7pm and only Emma's family members and friends were outside.  Belle was out on the town too and the Dark Ones didn't walk through her.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Funny how the Dark Ones had memories of the fake dagger from Rumple and the fake page from Emma, yet they didn't even bother to check if Excalibur was real. Dark Hook apparently didn't care that it was so easy to get it from Emma.

[Camera One]

To up the positive comments, I must say I loved the casting job on all the Dark Ones.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Camera One

[Emma]

I can't express how much I hate that Rumple is the DO again. I shouldn't be surprised but they could have waited more than 30 seconds after Hooks death to throw that in our face. Gross. Even more gross is watching Belle fall at his feet and duped for the millionth time.

Jennifer Morrison and Colin O'Donoghue are life ruiners. They should go sit in the corner and think about what they've done.

Thank goodness I've got Captain Swan cause not much else pleases me.

I hope Zelena will be back cause I need more of her one liners. Naming your kid pistachio is just too funny. The least they could do is pair her with Cruella and let them snark about town.

Still waiting for my Emma-Snow scene. The one where they actually talk. The scenes where the writers let the actresses do their thing.

[Katherine]

But he didn't try to send them to Hell because he was mad at Emma. The other Dark Ones tried to send them to Hell, which Hook is culpable in causing but his motive was all about Rumple getting sent to Hell. It had nothing to do with Emma and her family, they were just collateral damage in his revenge plot because that's how villain Hook works.

Well sure, but enabling the Dark Ones to have the ability to send them to hell is just as bad as him actively trying to send them to hell, IMO. And I agree that not caring about collateral damage as long as he gets his revenge is in-character for Hook, but I think this goes beyond collateral damage. Letting Emma's family die is just as bad as if he were to kill Emma herself, and while Hook has always been motivated by revenge, he's also always been just as motivated (or even more motivated) by love. So this seemed out of character to me. And I'm not buying the excuse of the darkness amplifying his villainy, because Rumple is pretty much the worst Dark One  ever, and I don't think he would have been willing to completely destroy Bae. I love Hook and this isn't enough to ruin the character for me, but I am disappointed. 

[Leia1979]

I really don't understand how Rumple was worthy to pull the sword from the stone when he went more dark than ever the first chance he got. I guess the only real explanation to that is "plot."

 

Poor Captain Swan. So many couples on this show, but I feel like the angst is always turned up to 11 for those two. I feel like it was all for naught and we're back to how things were last season but now Emma's off to rescue Killian. The darkness at the end of last season could have been funneled into a newly-healed Rumple and Killian could have been fatally injured somehow, and we'd be in almost the same place minus spending a quarter of the season in Camelot. Storylines like this that don't really progress anything frustrate me. Honestly, I was hoping when Emma started glowing blue at the end that Excalibur had chosen its miracle and had destroyed the darkness without killing Killian. Of course, that would have been way too easy (albeit satisfying). 

 

I'm gonna go back to the season 3 finale now--it's my happy place.

[PixiePaws1]

Two most perfect moments of the season for me...

1..Emma in Camelot lying down after nearly taking Killian out ...and she is just holding onto Killian's hook...

absolutely heartbreakingly perfect to me.

2..Emma unable to let go of Killian's hand as his body is taken away and Snow's obviously calling Emma her baby as she tries to comfort her

Such small little beats amongst all that angst and big drama..*sigh*

Edited December 7, 2015 by PixiePaws1

[MMR]

They cut Regina's purple dress scene with Hook. So disappointing!

That's the scene wnen they made that deal to never speak about what hapened, that Regina mentioned by the lake when she convinced Hook to be a better man.

[Curio]

Got to love Belle... "You lied to me again!" *passionately kisses him*

Yep. That's pretty much Rumbelle in a nutshell.

 

If you're going to shoehorn Regina in, actually utilize her. She only got two short scenes in the flashbacks and a few random pep talks in the present. She just wasn't needed.

I don't mind a Regina/Hook Enchanted Forest flashback in theory, but it just felt awkwardly shoehorned into this episode. It felt more like the writers were like "Oh wait, we've gone an entire half season without seeing an Evil Queen flashback. Hurry! Write one in quick!" And Regina being the one to try and convince Killian of being a better man in the present timeline felt even weirder because those two have no real friendship, which is why Dark Hook called her out on actually using his first name instead of an insulting nickname. I'm surprised they didn't go with someone like Henry to try and reason with Hook to remind him of their Operation Light Swan plans and to parallel Liam 2.0. Heck, even Charming would make more sense than Regina.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Curio

[Souris]

Things I Didn't Like:

5. Emma calling him Hook instead of Killian when she said she'd always find him

 

I really wished she'd have called him Killian instead, too. Hook felt jarring. But I figure they wanted to brand the #FindHook.

 

So, um. What happened with King Arthur and Guinevere and Lancelot? And Merida? Aren't they all still in Storybrooke? 

 

There was a scene filmed, but it apparently got cut for time. Not surprising given how much was crammed in. If something had to be cut, better the guest characters than the regulars.

 

Yup.  He and Pistachio are with the fairies.  Apparently, they will take care of Nealflake, too. Hopefully, the Charmings mentioned it to them before trotting off to the Underworld after Hook.

 

Snowflake is now with Blue learning to be Shady. Roland too, I guess, unless he's with his adoptive father, Little John.

 

I wonder if the actors from the Camelot crew know their bit got cut? Didn't Merida's actress have an interview that mentioned stuff?

 

As others mentioned, she RT'd some tweets dissing the show. I understand being upset that your stuff was cut, but regulars have to come before guests. That was hella unprofessional.

 

I know that Lana was trying to play Regina all sexy and stuff when she challenges Hook to go kill his father. But the way she was rubbing on him and on the carriage made me laugh. It reminded me of the flashback in Friends where Monica is trying to act sexy and rubs the box of mac and cheese on herself.

 

OMG, BWAHAHAHA! It was exactly that Monica scene!

 

So with this amazing episode. Are A and E forgiven for 4x11?

 

Hell no. That can never be undone.