S02.E10: 210

[taragel]

Interesting to see the wide range of reactions and intepretations to this one. For my money, it was pretty straightforward and not a whole heck of a lot happened here. I think the writers are very clearly laying out the "Cole's the father" arc and the thing that put the nail in that and laid way to any doubt about it was him psychically hearing the birth cries of his child while burning down the house. I highly doubt they'd giggle about "surprising" the audience with this given they've spent literally all season establishing it with anvils left and right.

 

What a mess Noah and Alison are with zero trust or intimacy (other than when they're sexing it up) between them. It was nice to see a very happy and evolving Cole but it's still so awful to think he missed out on a year of his daughter's life, arguably the only child he'll have if he and Luisa don't adopt or whatever. Kind of gross too that she only went to tell him because she was worried Scotty would expose her.

 

Shocked that Dr. Tinder is still in the picture both now and in six months or so when the trial happens. Someone raised a great point above about Noah not seeing Whitney for an entire year (that would include her graduation and going off to college presumably) and what does Helen think of that. Maybe she just gives no fucks and has washed her hands of it all at this point. But then she somehow gets remotivated enough to desperately try to free Noah. 

 

I'm really wondering if they can align the dots on this timeline in a convincing way. We must be coming up really quickly on the trial right? How old is the baby when Alison introduces her to Cole? Not much older than a year? Maybe 18 months? So within the next six months, Alison and Noah have to get married, she needs to be doing some sort of medical rotation (she maybe? wore scrubs the night he was arrested), Scotty needs to die, and Noah has to get actually charged and INTO the courtroom. I can't see how all that can happen in the next two episodes. Maybe it's longer, maybe the baby is 2 or 2.5 years old, though she still looked very little. Or maybe this season only ends with his arrest.

Edited December 7, 2015 by taragel

[Constantinople]

I know it's Noah's POV but I hate and am bothered by how indulgent "Cynthia" is of him.

 

No, I agree with you. She gave him a couple of prods, but Nixon seemed to be playing the most- non-confrontational therapist on tv.

 

For a while she reminded me of that computer program that pretended to be a psychotherapist. Too bad the character's name was Marilyn instead of Eliza

 

 

I think the kid will end up being Noah's. The writers are so over the top hinting that she's Cole's, and they don't seem to be the cleverest bunch. I'm sure they're all giggling in the corner about how shocked we'll all be when they spring it on us.

Could be, but it's hard to say. They may actually think they're being mysterious.

After all, in this episode we found out that when they were teenagers, Alison provided the key to the Lobster Roll so Cole could get in, but Scotty got burned.

Subtle.

[truthaboutluv]

Alison and Noah have to get married, she needs to be doing some sort of medical rotation (she wore scrubs the night he was arrested), he needs to get a job as a college professor, Scotty needs to die, and Noah has to get actually charged and INTO the courtroom.

 

 

She was? I may need to watch again, but I'm pretty sure Alison was simply wearing what she was wearing when talking to the investigator guy. I swear I remember her in jeans and something casual. As for Noah's being a professor, I thought there were references to Noah's teaching during his segment with the therapy so seems like that was already happening. And Scotty's death we know is the night of Cole's wedding and we saw Cole telling Alison he was getting married in this episode so I can easily see it being a month or two later when the wedding happens and Scotty is run down. 

[GeminiDancer]

 

She was? I may need to watch again, but I'm pretty sure Alison was simply wearing what she was wearing when talking to the investigator guy.

 

She was definitely in scrubs the night Noah was arrested. 

[blixie]

 

She was definitely in scrubs the night Noah was arrested

 

Nurses wear scrubs. Just saying.

[Artsda]

Cole's wheels were turning when Alison told him about the Lobster Roll, so I guess he takes the escrow money and buys the place under Scotty. Scotty seemed to instantly know the baby with Cole's. I guess their son had a striking resemblance to the new baby.She did seem to have an appearance like to Cole.

 

Surprised that the doctor is still with Helen all these months later. 

 

Noah not having contact with Whitney for an entire year, wow.  His whole therapy bored me. No surprise there's a new person he wants to sleep with now.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Artsda

[truthaboutluv]

I'm fine with Cole deciding to buy the Lobster Roll even if Scotty supposedly wanted to to do it because if Alison's image of him was accurate, Scotty wasn't going to buy anything but drugs with that money. Who in their right mind would give an obvious strung out junkie a million dollars for anything?

[Constantinople]

I'm really wondering if they can align the dots on this timeline in a convincing way. We must be coming up really quickly on the trial right? How old is the baby when Alison introduces her to Cole? Not much older than a year? Maybe 18 months? So within the next six months, Alison and Noah have to get married, she needs to be doing some sort of medical rotation (she wore scrubs the night he was arrested)

Looks like a short sleeved dark blue dress with a black collar to me

[grumpypanda]

She was definitely in scrubs the night Noah was arrested.

I just pulled the arrest scene up on YouTube and Alison wasn't wearing scrubs. She had on a black (maybe dark blue) top. Edited December 7, 2015 by grumpypanda

[taragel]

Oops, so maybe Allison doesn't become a nurse or doctor, and yes, Noah is already a professor (I got my present and future statuses confused), but also Cole has to buy The Lobster Roll which is currently being foreclosed on and presumably they are going to remodel before reopening? How does all that happen before the trial with the baby still being so young at the courthouse? Hmm. 

[Ursula Parrott]

Has it been said explicitly that Scotty is run over after the wedding? Maybe the wedding is called off because of the death?

[CleoCaesar]

I love that Noah wasn't even fully divorced from Helen and yet he and Alison are already in couple's counseling.

 

Realizing they were in therapy ALREADY made me a laugh out loud. Those two are just pathetic. Great love, my ass.

 

Loved seeing Cynthia Nixon though. She’s one of those actors that just make me perk up and pay attention. It’s part Miranda-love and part-her being incredibly talented.

 

What I didn't like is that Sarah Treem/her writers had to give Noah such a stereotypical, outdated view of masculinity and "war heroes," etc.

 

I found it pretty realistic. It’s a very "male" thing (I say this as a woman, so obviously this is just my outsider’s perspective) to be preoccupied with “greatness” and heroism and living a supersized life. I can totally buy this coming from Noah. 

 

Ugh! The nurse wanting to "better" herself by becoming a doctor is such a cliche.

 

The patron saint of this cliché is Abby Lockhart from ER, played by our own Maura Tierney. I wonder how common it is in real life.

 

I think the kid will end up being Noah's. The writers are so over the top hinting that she's Cole's

 

Sadly, me too. They’re just pushing it to seem like she’s Cole’s but it’s SO hamfisted at this point that I think the “twist” will be that she’s Noah’s. I’d be happy to be proven wrong.

[truthaboutluv]

Has it been said explicitly that Scotty is run over after the wedding? Maybe the wedding is called off because of the death?

 

Do you mean if the wedding had already taken place? I'm not sure it has been explicitly stated but it certainly seems like that's what happened. For one thing, Cole is definitely married when we see him in present day, because he was wearing a ring when he saw Alison in the court house. Second, I believe Noah did tell the lawyer that he and Alison got into a fight at the reception and he left, which is when he ran down the deer that he tried to cover up later, when he found out Scotty had been hit that same night.

 

So yeah, I'd say it's very likely that they were all in Montauk for the wedding, Scotty corners Alison after the ceremony, during the reception and later when he's walking down the street, someone runs him down and just keeps going. Right now, I have a new left curve suspect and that's Oscar. As has been stated many times, plenty of people had good reason to want Scotty dead and it would be just like Oscar to try and profit off of it with the video, even if he ran him down. Because why not, no one's suspecting him and either way - whether Noah, Alison or even Cole gets blamed and charged for it, doesn't affect his life. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Can The Affair's Non-Marriage Be Saved?
Say this for Noah: he is getting much more efficient about torpedoing his relationships, as he drags his feet about finally giving marriage a second go with Alison.

[briochetwist]

Soulmates?  Funny.

 

Noah is such an asshole. I believe that he stayed and talked to the therapist, he just didn't want Alison to know about it.  And what a session! He called her a mistake and hasn't told her about the divorce finalization from Helen.  And they're in therapy. This is definitely a love for the ages.  

 

So, he wants to be great, but being great means he can't just go to Europe to research his book, he wants to be able to fuck whoever he wants, because great men do whatever the fuck they want.  Every week I like this guy less and less.

 

That baby is obviously Cole's.  After watching the arrest scene that someone posted, not only do I think she's not wearing scrubs, that's a navy blue dress, but she ran down Scotty.  She was rather desperate when she asked Noah if he believed she'd get him out of it. And I don't think Helen is helping him because she wants him back, he's the father of her children and she doesn't want to see him go down for a murder he didn't commit.

[Empress1]

I deleted it so I can't go back and watch what he said but I think either Noah misspoke or didn't fully understand what Allison was doing.  He did mention she's in an "accelerated" program. I'm guessing Allison is pursuing her bachelor's degree and taking the courses she may have missed while getting her nursing degree that she needs to take to enter med school and/or pass the MCAT.  I'm guessing they just run together for Noah.

That's what I assumed. I've known people who went to college and then afterward decided to go to med school. They did post-bac programs, basically taking all the pre-med requisite courses because they hadn't done them in undergrad. And I don't think Alison went to college (I think I remember that from a conversation she had with Noah), so I'd guess she's starting on the academic track to med school. Which, good for her, if she sticks with it. 

 

I still have the same complaints about Noah -- his character now makes no sense whatsoever. All that therapy-session musing about good vs. great men and so on would be fine in a guy who is 25-35 years old. Noah is pushing 45. 

I think Noah's 47 now, actually. He said he was 46 in a previous episode and we've jumped ahead a year.

 

I found that therapy session really interesting (psych major here). I thought the part about how Helen read obituaries to see if the person loved and was loved and Noah read them to see what the person had accomplished was fascinating. I think I'm more like Helen, unless the person (particularly if it's a woman or person of color or both and they're elderly; as a woman of color I appreciate seeing what people have done to pave the way for me) has accomplished exceptional things. And I can buy that Noah, having had some success now, would start thinking that he's destined for greatness as he defines it, and he defines it in a very stereotypically masculine way. I'm not surprised at all that there are other women he's thinking about.

 

I didn't get the sense that Cynthia Nixon was judging him at all - like she said, she's heard it all. Noah's session probably wasn't the most shocking thing she heard that day. I watched that thinking I might respond well to her if I were a patient.

[Artsda]

Has it been said explicitly that Scotty is run over after the wedding? Maybe the wedding is called off because of the death?

Cole's wearing a wedding ring at the hearing, so they did have the wedding. 

[HumblePi]

Baby Joanie is super cute but I wish Alison had a little more imagination and named her Alice after the 'hurricane' going on when she was born.

 

This series has always seemed to me as though Treem and her team of co-writers have written each episode as though they're lost travelers driving to a unknown destination. They forgot to set the GPS before leaving so they wander around aimlessly and eventually get to their destination by trial and error. They throw in blind alleys and dead ends to perplex the viewers because we'll see in the end that the destination just really isn't that interesting.

 

When did Alison suddenly become 'Ali' to both Noah and Cole? That's not important to the story other than the nickname tends to bring a less hostile and more comfortable air to Alison. Basically, I consider Noah to be about the same as millions of average men. They admire other women, they may even fantasize for a brief moment about having sex with them, but if they're married or in a relationship, they're able to resist any real contact or involvement with those women because they know it's just plain wrong to do. For some reason, Noah wants to feel as though he's not like other men, special in some way by resisting temptation or not acting on his basic instinct. Noah has a grandiose opinion of himself. Baby Joanie said 'da da' at the end so that's the game changer for Noah I guess.

 

It was a little odd seeing all the familiar cast members faces in one place in the courtroom. When murder has been committed, even the most unseasoned detective would first search for the people that would have had a motive to kill Scotty Lockhart.  Neither Noah, Cole, Alison, Whitney, or the man-in-the moon had a real motive to commit murder. The only 3 that plausibly would have a motive for killing Scotty would be either Oscar Hodges, Max or drug dealers. I think that Oscar is the more likely candidate since he's the one that's been screwed over by Scotty and life in general. I think Max may be the 'hedge fund guy' business partner to Scotty since Max and Scotty already knew each other through the cocaine connection. Logically speaking, where else would Scotty find a 'hedge fund guy' living in Montaug? Noah will be found innocent, and I don't even know why he was the primary suspect in the first place.

[loki567]

I didn't like the episodes for a lot of the reasons already mentioned. Didn't like Noah's therapy session. Felt like a slightly crapper version of In Treatment for me. And the therapist really did feel the writer's attempt to build some sympathy for Noah when all he was describing was some basic tenets of fatherhood. Her, "I admire you for struggling with these issues," was cringeworthy to me. First time I really felt like the writers were shilling for Noah's character. 

 

And I also agree on the increasing dislike for Alison. She's such an utter flake and the paternity question feels worse and worse the longer she keeps it from Cole and Noah. I was hoping for some major character growth from Alison from season one to season two, she's still the same self-pitying martyr as she was in the pilot. And considering that we're almost to Cole's wedding, there's been about zero character development. 

 

I am curious where the show goes from here. Treem said she wanted three seasons to wrap things up, looks like this season will end with Scotty's death, the trial already started, so I don't know if they keep the rotating PoVs thing going when the story's caught up to the present. 

 

Anybody notice Scotty's "rich wall-street guy," mention? I keep finding myself blaming Max for everything every week but now I'm wondering if he's somehow involved in Scotty's murder. 

[Ellaria]

Do you mean if the wedding had already taken place? I'm not sure it has been explicitly stated but it certainly seems like that's what happened. For one thing, Cole is definitely married when we see him in present day, because he was wearing a ring when he saw Alison in the court house. Second, I believe Noah did tell the lawyer that he and Alison got into a fight at the reception and he left, which is when he ran down the deer that he tried to cover up later, when he found out Scotty had been hit that same night.

 

So yeah, I'd say it's very likely that they were all in Montauk for the wedding, Scotty corners Alison after the ceremony, during the reception and later when he's walking down the street, someone runs him down and just keeps going.

 

The timeline is a bit confusing. The scenes that we saw last night are presumably a few months before Scotty's death: March for last night's scenes with his death in July/August at Cole's wedding. From the "secret security video" that Oscar had, we see that Scotty and Alison are conveniently arguing under a sign reading "Lockhart's Lobster Roll." That means that in the 6-7 months following Alison's discussion with Cole - relaying the info from Scotty about the Lobster Roll - he had time to purchase it and renovate it (?). Let's just say that he works fast.

 

How many months after Scotty's death is Noah arrested? Joanie appears to be less than two years old when Alison appears with her at Noah's arraignment and runs into Cole.

 

That baby is obviously Cole's.  After watching the arrest scene that someone posted, not only do I think she's not wearing scrubs, that's a navy blue dress, but she ran down Scotty.  She was rather desperate when she asked Noah if he believed she'd get him out of it. And I don't think Helen is helping him because she wants him back, he's the father of her children and she doesn't want to see him go down for a murder he didn't commit.

 

Yes to all of this. I have thought for awhile that the Alison was behind the wheel. However, since this story keeps providing new (and sometimes unnecessary twists), I'm not falling on my sword over this.

 

 

Anybody notice Scotty's "rich wall-street guy," mention? I keep finding myself blaming Max for everything every week but now I'm wondering if he's somehow involved in Scotty's murder. 

 

And this is precisely why...Max keeps lurking around the perimeter of this story. He like to party and shows up at parties in the Hamptons and Montauk. He is a hedge-fund guy. He is a bit intense.Too much of a coincidence, I think.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Ellaria Sand

[beaker73]

Alison's professor said, "Aren't you my continuing ed student? So all of this should be familiar to you."   I took this to mean that after the birth of Joanie, Alison has decided to go back to nursing, but since it's been so long since she's practiced she's having to re-certify herself or something.  She may be in a class with other pre-med or med students but that doesn't necessarily mean that she's going to med school herself. 

 

Alison is definitely not wearing scrubs the night Noah is arrested. 

 

I found myself to be kind of happy that Helen was still with Dr. Tinder.  Go figure. 

[Constantinople]

As far as I know, Jefferson didn't cheat on his wife, and his relationship with Sally Hemings started after his wife died.  Still, even if started before her death, it's interesting that Noah refers to fucking a slave, his wife's half-sister, as "cheating".

[izabella]

And I don't think Alison went to college (I think I remember that from a conversation she had with Noah), so I'd guess she's starting on the academic track to med school. Which, good for her, if she sticks with it.

 

I don't think she sticks with it.  She was already shown asking about the last day she could drop the class (tomorrow), and then walking out while the teacher was talking about the exam for tomorrow.  I think she just quit.

 

I didn't get the sense that Cynthia Nixon was judging him at all - like she said, she's heard it all. Noah's session probably wasn't the most shocking thing she heard that day. I watched that thinking I might respond well to her if I were a patient

 

I'm sure she's heard a lot more shocking things.  Noah didn't even tell her the half of it.  He didn't mention doing coke at the party, and he most certainly didn't mention being naked and getting into the hot tub with Whitney, just that he had been watching two women kissing and realized one of them was Whitney.  So yeah, hardly anything to shock the therapist.

[briochetwist]

I'm sure she's heard a lot more shocking things.  Noah didn't even tell her the half of it.  He didn't mention doing coke at the party, and he most certainly didn't mention being naked and getting into the hot tub with Whitney, just that he had been watching two women kissing and realized one of them was Whitney.  So yeah, hardly anything to shock the therapist.

I just remembered that he told her that Eden had been after him for months.  Didn't she turn HIM down in his POV from the book tour? Such an egotistical douche.

[Pallas]

Has it been said explicitly that Scotty is run over after the wedding? Maybe the wedding is called off because of the death?

 

Yes, in season 1 it was established that Scotty died at night while walking on the road to The End, following Cole's wedding earlier that day. At the time we didn't know that he'd ever worked as a manager at The End: it's certainly possible that by the night of the wedding, he'd long since been let go. If so, so so then, Scotty: no job, no protected dealing, no deal.  

 

Hey: wouldn't the Montauk cop who'd long been protecting all the Lockharts, also have a motive to run down Scotty?  If Scotty later, in desperation, tried to blackmail him?

[jrlr]

So Noah believes he has the greatness potential (nope, Noah, you don't).  What a jackass.  First of all, his first novel failed and even he is referring to his huge hit, Descent, dismissively (he said to the therapist something like "well I can do something more important than "that" book") and his third sounds like a yawn.  Besides, neither Picasso nor Hemingway were "great men" - one was a great (not in my opinion) writer and the other was a great painter, but in their personal lives they were both assholes.  So I guess when Noah says he's torn between being a good man and a great man, that's a flawed theory but it fits perfectly with his stunted idea of what great actually means.   And it's still utter Noah-as-the-center-of-the universe crap.  

 

Alison needs some major character work at this point; in the first season I found her flawed but still sympathetic.  Now she seems to have no substance at all except in relation to other characters when she's forced to react, and she's no longer sympathetic, either.   I don't think I can slog through another season of this  - I don't care about the murder and I don't care about the characters.  What was in season 1 a complex and fascinating multifaceted examination of human nature and the consequences of actions has turned into a turgid, boring who dunnit.  Since I couldn't care less if any of these characters other than Helen wind up in prison, there's not much left to watch.

 

One thing I actually do like about this season is the irony of Helen clearly being ready to move on, even though she never even considered the idea before Noah left; and Noah clearly NOT being so ready (not showing Alison the divorce papers?  Really, asshole?) to move on, after all.  

[cardigirl]

One thought I had about the differences in the two viewpoints given last night:

Noah thought about not keeping the appointment and then had a soul-baring talk with their couples' therapist.  In Alison's viewpoint, Noah decided they didn't need to go back because they were happy again.  That makes me think that his session really did happen, but there was no way he was going to go back to the therapist as a couple and have all those 'secrets' he admitted to revealed.

[CleoCaesar]

Baby Joanie is super cute but I wish Alison had a little more imagination and named her Alice after the 'hurricane' going on when she was born.

 

Naming her Alice could have also been awesomely passive-aggressive (You missed our daughter's birth because of this hurricane, asshole, and now you'll never forget it). I wish she had named her Alice.

 

Plus "Joanie" makes me think of Chachi. It feels more than a little out of date in 2015.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Surprised that the doctor is still with Helen all these months later. 

 

Noah not having contact with Whitney for an entire year, wow.  His whole therapy bored me. No surprise there's a new person he wants to sleep with now.

 

I'm a bit surprised too about Helen & the doc & yet I liked it.  Maybe he cooled off on Tinder?  Helen wouldn't tolerate an alcoholic a-hole.  Or would she?  OK, I'll be like Helen here -- Hey Millennials, can ya get tired of Tinder?  Aw, just kidding.  I feel like I know 50 million 40-somethings who brag about being on Tinder.  I'm just not one of 'em.

 

Hey, I know what therapist Cynthia said to Noah, but I thought I saw some judgey eyes (from Cynthia) going on at certain points when Noah was babbling.  But I was nodding off cuz I was so bored, so I could be wrong.  And I got really used to Cynthia being all judgey when Carrie would go back to Big, after he treated her like shit for the billionth time.  Sorry, I'll stop with the SATC refs.  Can't myself tho.  Cynthia as Noah's sympathetic therapist & Pacey actually breaking into a smile made me a little nuts with shock.

 

That therapy session did seem (to me) like a def attempt by Treem to make us like Noah.  Didn't work for me.  Did it for anyone?

 

Um, the Joannie with Chachi was with 2 n's.  What is it with this show & name spellings?

[izabella]

One thought I had about the differences in the two viewpoints given last night:

Noah thought about not keeping the appointment and then had a soul-baring talk with their couples' therapist.  In Alison's viewpoint, Noah decided they didn't need to go back because they were happy again.  That makes me think that his session really did happen, but there was no way he was going to go back to the therapist as a couple and have all those 'secrets' he admitted to revealed.

 

Oh, yeah, Noah wouldn't want the therapist asking Allison how she feels about Noah wanting to bang his PR person AND Lucy (student?  assistant?).  Or how she feels now that Noah's divorce is finalized while Noah still hasn't told her about that.

I'm a bit surprised too about Helen & the doc & yet I liked it.  Maybe he cooled off on Tinder?  Helen wouldn't tolerate an alcoholic a-hole.  Or would she?  OK, I'll be like Helen here -- Hey Millennials, can ya get tired of Tinder?  Aw, just kidding.  I feel like I know 50 million 40-somethings who brag about being on Tinder.  I'm just not one of 'em.

 

Yes, you can get tired of Tinder.  There was a Vanity Fair article this summer about Tinder, and even the people who are successful with it find it soul-deadening after a while.  People first get obsessed with it, checking it while on dates or while in the midst of bars instead of talking with their dates or actually trying to meet a person.  Plus, you know, it's a hook-up app, so, people end up feeling used and/or lonely.

[HumblePi]

So Noah believes he has the greatness potential (nope, Noah, you don't).  What a jackass.  First of all, his first novel failed and even he is referring to his huge hit, Descent, dismissively (he said to the therapist something like "well I can do something more important than "that" book") and his third sounds like a yawn.  Besides, neither Picasso nor Hemingway were "great men" - one was a great (not in my opinion) writer and the other was a great painter, but in their personal lives they were both assholes.  So I guess when Noah says he's torn between being a good man and a great man, that's a flawed theory but it fits perfectly with his stunted idea of what great actually means.   And it's still utter Noah-as-the-center-of-the universe crap.  

 

Noah's novel Descent was successful because he used his own personal experiences with infidelity and sexuality which fascinated readers but all of that came from a very personal place of which he was very familiar with.  Noah believes it was his talent and brilliance as a writer and trusts that will carry over to any future novels. Doing an in-depth biography about the strategical military mind and marital infidelities of General Omar Bradley may seem like a best selling novel to Noah but in reality it may sit on the publishers warehouse shelves gathering dust for decades. How many people are willing to pay $16.00 to read about a man that hardly anyone knows about or cares about anymore? It might appeal to some historians of WW2 or some retired military veterans in their 90's living in a retirement home, but that's about it.

 

Noah wants to believe that his perceived brilliance should entitle him to 'living the life' as Hemingway, Tennessee Williams or Picasso had. These were egocentric, egomaniacal, self-absorbed men that lived their lives with depression, substance abuse and alcoholism. How romantic is that? Noah is really wondering if it's possible to have his cake and eat it too. He got what he wanted, he got Alison. Now, he doesn't know if he really wants her because by making her his wife, it will put him in a position where he'll struggle with guilt the rest of his life because he feels his 'art' entitles him to take whatever he wants and screw everyone else. I'll say it again. Noah should spontaneously combust in my opinion.

[izabella]

Noah is just full of rationalizations why he should be able to screw anyone he wants however he wants despite having a wife or girlfriend.  If he were really a "good" person, or a great one (ha!), he would just NOT MARRY ANYONE nor live with a woman, nor even date anyone seriously.  Why can't he stay single?  Then he could bang whoever he wants.  Problem solved.  But, no, not Noah.  He thinks he needs to CHEAT in order to be great.

Edited December 8, 2015 by izabella

[HumblePi]

I'm fine with Cole deciding to buy the Lobster Roll even if Scotty supposedly wanted to to do it because if Alison's image of him was accurate, Scotty wasn't going to buy anything but drugs with that money. Who in their right mind would give an obvious strung out junkie a million dollars for anything?

Who is their right mind would be willing to commit a million dollars to build a nightclub in Montauk to a junkie? The nightclub would have tourist business for 3 months of the year, so what about the other 9 months, turn it into a bowling alley maybe?  In last year's season, Oscar Hodges wanted to build a bowling alley and needed the town's approval. There was a town hall meeting regarding approval of the bowling alley and at the meeting, Cole launched into a dissertation about his desire to "fight to my last breath to keep Montauk local."  Plans for the bowling alley were denied unanimously by the board, much to the chagrin of Oscar.  In what world would the tidy community of Montauk approve plans for a nightclub?  'Pish-tosh' I say, ain't never gonna happen.

Edited December 7, 2015 by HumblePi

[Ruby25]

Another thing about the baby being Cole's- I don't see how they could possibly come back from that. I mean once Noah finds out, the whole relationship is kaput and that's it, right? It would seem like that's a pretty definitive betrayal on her part, so unless the show is ending next season, wouldn't that kind of have to be it for them?

 

That was the only reason I wasn't sure if they'd have the kid be Cole's- it seems like there's nowhere to go with the relationship at that point if it's true.

[JenE4]

I was completely taken out of the moment when Noah referred to Alison as Allie. He has NEVER called her Allie, but I could let it slide that maybe over a year and a half since 2 episodes ago he finally called her something than her formal, 3-syllable name. But then when freakin' Scotty called her Allie, oh, hell, no. Show, stop trying to make Allie happen. You're a season and a half too late. It's like when George Costanza wanted his coworkers to start calling him T-bone.

My interpretation of "Allie's" interpretation of the storyline was that she freaked out that Scotty was going to tell Cole that the baby was his, so she went to meet up with him to tell him first. But then when he said he was happy and engaged, she didn't know what to say about why she asked him to meet and that's why she struggled to come up with that she's afraid Scotty is using. But what else is new and Cole didn't care. Yet it also established a basis for Cole inviting Alison to the wedding because they had no relationship before then.

Noah's really great at one thing: being an asshole. World's greatest asshole, Noah Solloway, everybody!

[Anne Elk]

Noah's novel Descent was successful because he used his own personal experiences with infidelity and sexuality which fascinated readers but all of that came from a very personal place of which he was very familiar with.  Noah believes it was his talent and brilliance as a writer and trusts that will carry over to any future novels. Doing an in-depth biography about the strategical military mind and marital infidelities of General Omar Bradley may seem like a best selling novel to Noah but in reality it may sit on the publishers warehouse shelves gathering dust for decades. How many people are willing to pay $16.00 to read about a man that hardly anyone knows about or cares about anymore? It might appeal to some historians of WW2 or some retired military veterans in their 90's living in a retirement home, but that's about it.

 

Noah wants to believe that his perceived brilliance should entitle him to 'living the life' as Hemingway, Tennessee Williams or Picasso had. These were egocentric, egomaniacal, self-absorbed men that lived their lives with depression, substance abuse and alcoholism. How romantic is that? Noah is really wondering if it's possible to have his cake and eat it too. He got what he wanted, he got Alison. Now, he doesn't know if he really wants her because by making her his wife, it will put him in a position where he'll struggle with guilt the rest of his life because he feels his 'art' entitles him to take whatever he wants and screw everyone else. I'll say it again. Noah should spontaneously combust in my opinion.

 

Noah knows damn well that nobody is going to pay one speck of attention to his book if he doesn't include spicy stuff about the general's hot romance with Marlene Dietrich. All that ruminating on Great Men and their great assholishness, but deep down I think he realizes that he's going to end up writing just another pulpy romance, trying to justify his own infidelity. And I really think that Noah could manage to write it without having to spend two years (two years!) hanging around in France while somebody else takes care of the kids he was so desperate to get custody of. Two months, maybe. Two years, no way.

[Mhl2016]

In Noah's perspective, he said that Alison was always watching him with the baby. He thought it was because she was still angry with him, but I definitely thought they were hinting that Alison was trying to see if she could tell if Noah was the father. Was I the only one who thought that. I Also Thought When Cole said something to Alison along the lines of, "is that the only reason you wanted to meet with me?" That he was expecting her to tell him that the baby was his. Anyone else?

[izabella]

Excellent point about custody of the kids.  Noah has 50/50 custody, and he never mentioned having to be in NY for those kids, just the baby.  Whitney might want nothing to do with him, but he has 3 more kids that he is supposed to be taking care of half the time.

[DiabLOL]

I Also Thought When Cole said something to Alison along the lines of, "is that the only reason you wanted to meet with me?" That he was expecting her to tell him that the baby was his. Anyone else?

Yep, I had the exact same impression.

[HumblePi]

In Noah's perspective, he said that Alison was always watching him with the baby. He thought it was because she was still angry with him, but I definitely thought they were hinting that Alison was trying to see if she could tell if Noah was the father. Was I the only one who thought that. I Also Thought When Cole said something to Alison along the lines of, "is that the only reason you wanted to meet with me?" That he was expecting her to tell him that the baby was his. Anyone else?

I think that if Cole had any inkling that the baby might be his that he'd push that as far back into his head as he could, otherwise it would send his relationship and engagement to Luisa into turmoil. It looks as though Luisa has helped Cole change his perspective about life around for the better. I hate to see Cole slip back into the tormented, and sloppy Montauk person he was before the 'fire-cleansing'.

[Former Nun]

Noah is delusional if he thinks that he IS or every COULD BE a "great man."   Do well-balanced people really think like this?

Edited December 8, 2015 by Former Nun

[Lone Wolf]

I don't think she sticks with it.  She was already shown asking about the last day she could drop the class (tomorrow), and then walking out while the teacher was talking about the exam for tomorrow.  I think she just quit.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree.  She stopped at the door on her way out and took a long look around, first at the professor and then around the classroom, and her expression seemed to me to reflect degrees of resignation and regret.  She's out of there.

[Former Nun]

Didn't like Noah's therapy session. Felt like a slightly crapper version of In Treatment for me.

 

 

The music in the background reminded me of In Treatment too....

[cardigirl]

Noah is delusional if he thinks that he IS or every COULD BE a "great man."   Do well-balanced people really think like this?

Well, I think a lot of people have these thoughts. Generally they are looking for something outside of themselves to make them feel whole, not realizing that it's got to come from within. So it may seem trite or juvenile to some, but to Noah, it's really something he's struggling with. Is it immature? Yes, I think so, and sadly many people never realize that they need to move on to more mature thinking.

[Ellaria]

In Noah's perspective, he said that Alison was always watching him with the baby. He thought it was because she was still angry with him, but I definitely thought they were hinting that Alison was trying to see if she could tell if Noah was the father. Was I the only one who thought that. I Also Thought When Cole said something to Alison along the lines of, "is that the only reason you wanted to meet with me?" That he was expecting her to tell him that the baby was his. Anyone else?

 

Regarding Noah's comment...I think that it can be viewed one of two ways: Alison looking to see if there was a physical resemblance between Joanie and Noah OR Alison looking to see if Noah really loves for Joanie.

 

As far as Cole: at that moment, no, I don't think that he was expecting Alison to tell him that Joanie is his child. I don't think that possibility has crossed his mind yet. However, I certainly think it has once he meets Joanie at Noah's arraignment. 

 

One thought keeps running thru my mind...

Noah keeps mentioning his preferred ending for Descent: "two people sitting down to dinner with an unimaginable secret between them." Since his dopey book seems to mirror events in his life, what if those two people are Alison and Cole? I'm not sure what has to happen to lead into such a scene so maybe it is highly unlikely. Nor am I sure of the outcome of Noah's trial. (My guess is that he is found not guilty and the real killer will be sitting in the court room.)

Edited December 8, 2015 by Ellaria Sand

[HOTNTX53]

I'm going to get farfetched here, but indulge me for a moment. I think that the cameras focused on Joanie quite a bit to show the audience that she looked a lot like Cole with her little round face. What if Alison really is Scotty's killer and she ultimately goes to jail and since Cole is determined to be Joanie's father (via the DNA test), Cole and Luisa wind up with the baby they thought they'd never have due to Luisa's infertility?

Edited December 8, 2015 by HOTNTX53

[Boundary]

Well, I found Noah's first half of the episode absolutely riveting. Two brilliant actors playing off each other, it was wonderful. Noah was finally allowed to externalize his feelings and as expected it's a swirl of sometimes contrasting emotions. Kinda went some way to explaining some of the problems I had with his characterization last week. I don't seek to like him, I seek to understand him. For me that's where the drama lies.

 

Alison's POV didn't do much for me, it was full of the feigning and winking (about the paternity, about the murder) that has flooded her section of the drama for a while now, without anything being actually revealed. That's probably reserved for the season finale.

[nara]

I really enjoyed the therapy session.  I do think we got to a level of honesty from Noah that we haven't seen before.  Now, he doesn't want to share his magical therapist with Alison!  

I liked the discussion of good men vs. great men.  I think that there have been a lot of men who were great in their field or calling, but their focus on achievement made them ignore the needs of their loved ones.  They always put themselves and their work first.  However, Noah seems to think that this is a causal relationship--that is, being a self-centered jerk leads to great achievements--and I don't buy that. 

 

Am I the only one who thought that Scotty looked genuinely pleased to see Joanie (in addition to his delight at having something to hold over Alison)?  Made me think for a second he was just happy to have a niece.  

[cardigirl]

Rewatching and at the end when the baby says Da Da, I just remembered that babies usually say da da first because the d sound is easier to make than the m sound. So Joanie has it backwards. LOL.

[truthaboutluv]

I too appreciated the scene between Noah and his therapist on a purely acting and writing level. I thought Dominic and Cynthia both played their parts well and Dominic especially was particularly riveting in the scene. As I've said, I have no problems watching shows with unlikable characters and even unlikable leads. And this a perfect example of this. While I can appreciate the scene on a performance level, in terms of Noah's character, it just continued to solidify my view of him as a whiny, selfish, narcissistic asshole. In that vein, I actually do think  Noah has been consistent.