S02.E08: Legends Of Today

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Vandal Savage arrives in Central City and sets his sights on Kendra Saunders. After Vandal attacks Kendra and Cisco, they turn to Barry for help. Realizing how dangerous Vandal is, Barry takes Kendra to Star City and asks Oliver and team to hide her until he can figure out how to stop Vandal. However, things quickly go from bad to worse when a man with wings AKA Hawkman shows up and flies off with Kendra. Meanwhile, Harrison develops a serum to make Barry run faster and asks Jay to test it out.

 

Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d8FtLw4MGQ

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Usually I prefer that just about everything about Arrow stays far away from Flash - aside from the occasional mentions of the Arrow team/Star(ling) City - but this 2-night event looks like it just might be watchable.

 

 

[the 2nd part will be the first time I've watched a 4th season Arrow episode (plan on watching the season at a later time, maybe will watch the 'first half' during the winter hiatus  - its not 'appointment television' anymore, unlike Flash, IMO)]

Edited November 21, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Extended trailer for both crossover episodes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTdIbE86jbo

[phoenics]

I haven't watched Arrow at all this season - It's a mangled mess, imo. Kinda irritated that this year I HAVE to watch it for continuity.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I haven't watched Arrow at all this season - It's a mangled mess, imo. Kinda irritated that this year I HAVE to watch it for continuity.

 

I haven't watched at all either (yet), but read some of the reception of each one aired in the episode discussions in different forums around the 'net, and I have to say, with at least a couple of the episodes this season, I found myself breathing a sigh of relief and a "dodged a bullet with this one!" thought process.

Edited November 22, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[SevenStars]

I already know that I won't be watching the Arrow half of the crossover because I don't care about the characters and Iris is not going to be there. The storyline for the crossover is not worth me watching both shows.

[phoenics]

I prob won't watch either - I just don't care. I may not even watch LoT.

[zannej]

I've actually liked the Arrow episodes this season-- not as much as I liked previous seasons, but I still enjoy it. I look forward to The Flash episodes more though.

[quarks]

I think that after a pretty uneven third season, Arrow is mostly back on track this season. From the trailers, though, it looks as if these crossovers are really more about the Hawks and Vandal Savage, not any of the Arrow or Flash characters. So I think it's less about liking/hating Arrow or Flash, and more about liking/hating the Hawks and Vandal Savage. 

[zannej]

I think that after a pretty uneven third season, Arrow is mostly back on track this season. From the trailers, though, it looks as if these crossovers are really more about the Hawks and Vandal Savage, not any of the Arrow or Flash characters. So I think it's less about liking/hating Arrow or Flash, and more about liking/hating the Hawks and Vandal Savage. 

Ah. I admit that I have zero interest in the Hawks but I don't dislike or hate Vandal Savage. I do like Ray, Captain Cold, and Dr. Stein though. I might warm to Heatwave eventually. :P

I confess fully that Kendra already annoys me with the way she holds her mouth somewhat open in some scenes. I don't know what it is, but its something about that facial expression that bugs me. I can't figure out if she subconsciously reminds me of someone else or what...

[GIGIBEE]

I actually look forward to Green Lantern‘s join, Green Lantern and Flash work together with the task, but it should not be in this movie, which is unlikely.

[scarynikki12]

Do not post derogatory comments about those involved with the show.  It doesn't matter if they are on camera or behind the scenes and it doesn't matter how much you dislike them, keep your comments civil.  For any questions or clarifications, send either of us a PM. 

 

Have a Flash-y Thanksgiving

 

scarynikki12 and Chip

[Trini]

Just me, or does it seem like most of the crossover (both episodes?) are going to take place in Starling City? Or elsewhere? Last year each setting had about equal time.

[Sakura12]

The EP's said that this year The Flash episode mostly takes place in Star City and Arrow episode mostly takes place in Central City. 

[Trini]

[bettername2come]

 

Sneak peek. In case you're a crazy person like me who can't wait two more hours.

[Shriekingeel]

Part of the episode that made me laugh was grim-faced Malcolm strolling into the Arrows' headquarters backed by a bunch of guys in ninja outfits...to deliver exposition. Twice. They should change his name to Malcolm Exposition.

[nksarmi]

Holy cow that was a packed episode!  I love the Hawks, but poor Cisco is going to his heart broken here...

[Jediknight]

That was a lot of fun.

 

Loved the Legends of Tomorrow first sneak peek music being used for Hawkgirl, loved the birth of Hawkgirl, Thea wondering if they know The Flash, Team Arrow actually smiling, Cisco freaking out about how Felicity messed up his plans, the crack about Malcolm entering places, and well everything about this episode.

[nksarmi]

Part of the episode that made me laugh was grim-faced Malcolm strolling into the Arrows' headquarters backed by a bunch of guys in ninja outfits...to deliver exposition. Twice. They should change his name to Malcolm Exposition.

Oh my gosh, I was waiting for it to happen a third time to complete the trifecta of the joke!  That was Flash all the way - he doesn't show up like that on Arrow.  He shows up in a suit trying to buy Thea ice cream or something.

[venusnv80]

One Line for your female lead. Never change The Flash, never change. 

[cambridgeguy]

Wasn't Star labs supposed to have some new security system?  Why do they even bother with doors if anyone can just wander in? 

 

Of course, Barry and Oliver were pretty happy to instantly take off their masks in front of virtual strangers.

[prospazzinator]

I don't watch Arrow so I'm always a bit annoyed about the crossovers, but this one was all right. Felicity totally bugs me and I may die of Mary Sue-itis if she and Patty have any screentime together tomorrow. 

 

Felt bad for Cisco because he's about to get dumped. And did Joe not sign Iris' permission slip or something? Missing in action yet again.

[Trini]

Wow, there was a lot of stuff thrown together here. Three new characters and their backstories plus the casts of both shows. (Except Iris, for whatever reason. At least Laurel gets to be in Part 2.)

 

Arrow and Flash (and co.) being unmasked in front of Hawkman made no sense. So 4 more people to add to the Knows the Flash's "Secret" Identity List.

 

It sucks that Cisco has to break up with Kendra, but I'm glad he was able to help her.

 

Yes, you were wrong about getting the girl Oliver!  :)

 

A whole new Arrowcave, but still as unsecure as ever. Never change, Starling City.

[bettername2come]

I hate that Iris had less to do here than last season's crossover. I assumed she would be involved in the Central City plot at least.

I did enjoy it. So many great lines. Loved Diggle's "Every time!" just because it means Barry's given him a lift offscreen. Piggy back rides offscreen last year?

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

So, way to waste the ultra importance of the whole PA/explosion and everything, when hey, we can just create quick & easy Speed Force injections!  Sorry, but that is so dumb.

 

So after all that, Patty still doesn't know the secret.  Stop it.  Just stop, show.

 

Was I supposed to know who the 'bad' was in Arrow's - first portion of the show - open?  Whatever.  It was tedious anyways.

 

I see the new Arrow 'Cave' has about as much "strong security" as Star Labs supposedly now has.  [/sarcasm]

 

Can't even escape the disgusting-ness that is 'Olicity' on an episode of The Flash.  Thanks for that, show.  Really.

 

Total screen time for the "leading ladies" of both shows tonight?  Iris got a brief one-line shot and Laurel got a miniscule mention of being in CC with mom.  Which makes all the sense in the world, that L - and her teammates - would consider time with mom more important than stopping an immortal killing machine.  Guess there was no option or chance of asking for her to help with VS while they were in CC after the Staff either.  Because, you know, reasons.

 

 

ETA:  Oh, and why is a really big bit of Arrow mythos only happening when crossing over with The Flash?!  [Oliver/whoever-her-name-is-that-he-got-prego/son]

Edited December 2, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[KirkB]

I loved Thea's reaction to Barry. "Did I know we knew the Flash? I didn't know we knew the Flash." 

 

I'm still not sold on Savage. He's just not...big enough. I always thought of Vandal Savage as a large, intimidating man. This guy just seems creepy.

 

I can buy the League knowing about Savage, he's even older than they are and they've probably crossed paths from time to time. But how did Malcolm know Savage was after them here and now? 

 

The Hawk suits look better in action than in the still photos. But the wings, are they magic? Where do they come from?

[Trini]

Oh, did Iris really get a line? I was watching the TV and my laptop; I did not notice her at all.

[Ruby25]

Patty: the most baffling, unnecessary character on either show right now. Exists to cause problems because she doesn't know the secret, obvious solution is to tell her like they tell everyone else, but then again...why does she need to be on the show in the first place??? This BETTER be done with by the second half of the season, man. I'm getting real sick and tired of Iris basically not existing for a character who has no purpose and no reason to be here.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Ruby25

[Trini]

But the wings, are they magic?

 

Probably; so no physics rules to follow! (As usual...)

[miracole]

Oh, did Iris really get a line? I was watching the TV and my laptop; I did not notice her at all.

They didn't even focus the camera on her when she said her one little line. So ridiculous.

Yeah so I don't watch Arrow so hope everything works out...

[Trini]

I felt so bad for Cisco (and Kendra) when he told her things would get nomal... then Hawkman swoops in and flies off with her!

[Tazmania]

That Kendra lady is a really terrible actress, not impressed with Vandal Savage either. Does not bode well for the Legends if this is acting pool they are working with.

[Lantern7]

Nice way to start the crossover. Okay, it didn't occur to me that Iris was marginalized, but I was more gobsmacked at Vandal Savage, who deserves the hype going into Legends of Tomorrow.

 

Poor Cisco. Losing out to an immortal lover. Hawkman came off as creepy as he did in Justice League Unlimited, and I know that's the point. I'm intrigued by the wings. Psionic?

 

Hi, Damien! Bye, Damien! And hi, Malcolm! Is it in Barrowman's contract that he has to make the dramatic entrance? If so, I whole-heartedly agree with it.

[ParadoxLost]

When Barry drew the villain, I thought they were introducing General Zod.

 

Now that Patty shot someone she was certain was a villain (because who is going to guess Earth 2) and is wrong, she will stupidly hesitate at some future critical moment with deadly results.

 

This was weird for a cross over.  Outside of setting up Legends, it felt like they were showing the Arrow episode under The Flash title and I bet they do the same with Arrow. I wonder if their data is telling them a large portion of the audience is watching one or the other but not both and they are trying to improve on that.

 

That scene at the end.  We've seen an abbreviated version of it before right?  In one of the premieres?  I know I've seen the coffee thing but the kid with the toy was new.

 

Also, not making me want to watch Legends of Tomorrow and I was planning to.

 

Also, are these titles subtle digs

 

Flash is present

Arrow is past

LOT is the future

[ottoDbusdriver]

I loved Thea's reaction to Barry. "Did I know we knew the Flash? I didn't know we knew the Flash." 

 

I know that Kendra would have probably found out about Barry as the Flash eventually, but Cisco, Cisco, Cisco that was just sloppy blurting out Barry's name right in front of her.

 

The dialogue for that gathering at Thea's apartment was really, really terrible -- stilted and awkward, who wrote this ?

 

Maybe it was just me, but it sounded like Carter Hall called Vandal Savage 'Randall Savage' at one point ?

Edited December 2, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver

[Jenesis]

Wasn't looking forward to the crossover. Still think it was a bad idea, to continue lose the momentum of the ongoing plot Flash has going this season, but whatever. I'll just talk about the episode.

 

I really liked Caitlyn and Harrison putting their heads together, making up when the other is lacking. Jay was getting on my nerves earlier in the episode. I was thinking "Why the devil are you still here is you're not going to help with n-e-thang??" But he came through and help with Gun-shot victim Harry.

 

Leading into....Patty...Can you leave now. Tired of the relationship propping from everyone.I didn't see all her scenes (honestly, I start zoning out) but geez, gal, busting into Star Labs and shooting folk? Who are you, Joe West?

 

No story or role for Iris. What a shock. Unhappy about that.

 

Thea does not play. Period.

 

How many people are they just going to un-mask for? This is ridiculous. But Iris couldn't know for almost a year and had to find out her damn self.

 

The CGI for the Hawks were better than I thought they would me. I'll watch Arrow (which I never do) to find out what VS is about and how the Hawk story plays out.

 

Poor Cisco, he'll be back on Tinder by next week.

[Morrigan2575]

First Flash episode I've watched in awhile. Tom Cavanaugh is still awesome. Enjoyed his scenes with both Caitlin and Jay.

Patty and Barry are cute together. I liked her scenes with Joe as well. I'm guessing they're going to have to fill Patty in or make up a convincing lie very soon.

Really not feeling the Hawks or Vandal Savage. I did laughter when Hawkman pushed Kendra off the ledge but it just mostly too cheesy for me.

Loved all the Barry/Oliver and Flash/GA team upset very good partnership/team up in this episode.

Loved Diggle's reaction to Barry speeding them away. Thea's reaction was very cute as well.

Loved all of the Felicity/Barry, Felicity/Cisco and Olicity scenes in this episode. I loved that Felicity created the Magnetic Arrow. I also loved Barry's reaction to Malcolm and Malcolm snaring on Felicity.

Almost forgot, Cisco had some great lines, the Highlander crack was awesome, as was the Conditioner line. I loved Cisco/Felicity's very pathetic high 5

Edited December 2, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Ruby25]

At this point...I really think someone needs to confront the writers about the Iris situation. Do they not like the character, not like the actress, or what? What's going on here? She can't get more than one throwaway line on the show that she's actually on? It would not be that hard to write her something, so what the hell is the problem?

[kismet]

Really thought it was a decent episode, although I am an ARROW person.

 

I am annoyed that they didn't find anywhere substantial in the crossover story to put Iris in. That was truly a disappointment and fail on the writers end. At least they could have had her grabbing coffee with BA & OQ in the end.

 

I don't look fwd to the OQ BabyMama drama in Flarrow, but if we are going to have to sit through it on 2 different shows the least they could do is make it relevant. Putting Iris's investigative skills to use would be a good way to do that. Otherwise, what it the point of introducing the BabyMama drama on FLASH, other than the fact that I think the Arrow writers don't care about the storyline, so the crossover is the best place to dump the story & the characters.

[Advance35]

Absolutely loved that episode.  I think Season 2 has been a bit uneven quality wise so for my money this was the best episode of the entire season so far.

 

Barry and Oliver are always fun.   Friends with a playful bit of rivalry thrown in.   I also liked the sense of camaraderie between the two groups when they decompressed at Oliver's Penthouse.

 

Each time Barry and Felicity have scenes I always sigh wistfully and think about what could have been.   There isn't necessarily any heat between the two but when they dial down the friendship vibe, I totally get a romantic chemistry between the two.   Just odd little moments.  And I actually like Oliver and Felicity.

 

Also loved Cisco's interactions with not just Kendra (such a shame that isn't going to work out but LOOK at Hawkman.  I love Cisco but I would totally tell him Ta-Ta).    Also liked his lecturing Thea about her codename and his "conditioner", lol.   And of course every scene he had with Felicity was gold.

 

So Patty is even closer to learning about Barry's secret.   I'm curious to see where they are going with this.   Good on her for investigating and in her shoes I would have totally thought that was  a weapon Well's was holding.    Can't wait to see how Joe is going to explain all of this.

 

Wish Caitlin was able to make her way to Star City since she actually has a relationship with Felicity and a history of interaction with Team!Arrow.   She's my favorite Cisco cohort and it's just never the same when she's not around.

 

Still awesome episode.   I like it even more than last seasons crossovers.

[Trini]

But seriously, why do they keep mentioning Oliver's son on the Flash? Even Arrow doesn't care about that storyline.

[phoenics]

I found the episode funny at times - but it was a slap in the face for Iris and westallen fans. Oliver admits he was wrong about "getting the girl" and Barry nods happily as he thinks of PATTY - Iris has all but been forgotten and I am SO not here for this erasure.

Yes - Iris got one line (probably ONLY due to her being the lead actress - though I'm sure they'll force her to bow down like they did KC on Arrow next season probably). One line and then poof. Vanished.

Even the B-plot back in CC had Harrison/Caitlin/Patty. And Iris got ONE line.

I knew she was only going to get one line/scene, but that was painful and I honestly feel like the show has made a token of Iris.

I tried to enjoy the episode - but seeing Felicity get to worry all over Barry about his back being broken by Zoom and we NEVER got any kind of scene like that with Iris just makes me so angry. And EBR's recent interview where she practically erases Iris' importance in Barry's life by throwing her favor to Caitlin and Patty for Barry hasn't helped.

If they could try making Felicity more than a Mary Sue that would help. There is no way she can be a CEO of a major company AND be perfect at Arrow-stuff too. Not possible and the writers can kiss my ass. Real working women KNOW how impossible that would be to do. Please oh please let them writer a story where Felicity gets booted out because she cannot do both!? Please?! Otherwise, she's nothing but fan service and a Mary Sue.

But Thea Queen is awesome. Love her. HAVE HER in more crossovers.

Also - did Diggle get the same shaft that Iris got?

Or is there some kind of quota on how much diversity the show can have at once? Since Joe (barely), Kendra and Cisco were there, they let Iris fade to black and then she took Diggle with her (he somehow disappeared somewhere over the course of the episode)?

This show can bite me.

Edited December 2, 2015 by phoenics

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I'm sure Iris wouldn't have wanted to help, or at least provide moral support, in the creation of the drug to make Barry faster and more capable of fighting Zoom - considering she was urging him to take on Zoom before and up to the point Zoom thrashed Barry.  Or maybe show her working on a story about VS at the paper.  I don't know, something other than just giving the slightest reminder that yes, she is still a character (as minor as that is, currently) on the show.

 

Right, writers/showrunners?

[foreverevolving]

I loved Thea's reaction to Barry. "Did I know we knew the Flash? I didn't know we knew the Flash." 

 

I'm still not sold on Savage. He's just not...big enough. I always thought of Vandal Savage as a large, intimidating man. This guy just seems creepy.

 

I can buy the League knowing about Savage, he's even older than they are and they've probably crossed paths from time to time. But how did Malcolm know Savage was after them here and now? 

 

The Hawk suits look better in action than in the still photos. But the wings, are they magic? Where do they come from?

to be honest, we were never told how old the league is.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

But seriously, why do they keep mentioning Oliver's son on the Flash? Even Arrow doesn't care about that storyline.

 

Exactly.  Why do we (Flash fans) get saddled with that crap when the show its supposed to be coming from doesn't even deal with it - aside from the flashback about Moira paying her off to shut her mouth and leave them alone - at least, they hadn't in the first 3 seasons [haven't watched a single 4th season episode to date (until tomorrow night)]?

Edited December 2, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[quarks]

So that was fun.

 

Good things:

 

1. Loved the way the crossover combined the tones of both shows - dead bodies dropping everywhere from Arrow, jokes from Flash. Come to think of it, this was one of the funniest episodes of Flash so far.  

 

Particularly loved Thea and Cisco exchanging hair fun.

 

2. All three villains were on point tonight - Damien Darhk just enjoying being evil, Malcolm Merlyn just strolling in to explain that no, the real threat is the immortal guy, Vandal Savage all I HAVE THE BIG STICK THAT SHOOTS BLUE GLOWY LIGHT.

 

3. HAWKGIRL! And she jumped into her destiny and learned how to fly!

 

4. Barry and Felicity are still a lot of fun together. Loved that she hit him and then hugged him.

 

Questionable things:

 

1. I could do without the kid storyline coming up on Arrow, but I did like that a) Oliver was intelligent enough to put the pieces together on his own, and b) that they were introduced through a little Barry Allen action figure. That was cute.

 

But why does this plot keep coming up more on Flash than Arrow? Unless the kid turns out to be a metahuman tomorrow night, this is an Arrow story. 

 

2. And on a similar note, why, exactly, introduce the main plot of Legends of Tomorrow on Flash.

 

3. So we go through all this effort to introduce something that can increase the Speed Force and Jay Garrick is all we can't use it and isn't even explaining why?

 

4. I know Flash needed some excuse to bring over the Arrow characters, but "Team Arrow can defend Kendra better than we can" felt particularly weak, especially when the episode ended with everyone heading back to Central City again.  Maybe instead of defend/protect, Barry should have used the word "consult"?

 

5. Well, Iris did have a line.

 

Bad things:

 

1. I'll buy Malcolm Merlyn strolling into the Arrow Cave to deliver grandiose speeches, because, well, he's Malcolm Merlyn, but what was the deal with Patty just strolling into Star Labs?

 

(Sidenote - I'm not fond of the term Mary Sue to begin with, but given that Patty just shot one of the guy's on Barry's team - one of the good guys - I'm really not happy with applying that term to her.)

 

2. Why, after all that, does Patty not know Barry's secret when Thea, Hawkman, Kawkgirl, Malcolm Merlyn and associated LoAs now know it? 

 

Seriously, especially in an episode that was basically everyone telling everyone everything, just tell Patty already. It's really not going to make much of a difference. Not to mention that we already saw this plot last year with Iris, so I, at least, really don't need to see it again.

[TV Anonymous]

Looking at the first half, for me this has the potential to be the best multi-episode crossover in recent memory. A packed episode filled with action, comedy, mythology and plenty of snark. Let us see how the second half works. 

 

I just wonder, though. How will they incorporate Oliver's flashback in a supposedly fast-paced episode?

[statsgirl]

That was more fun than I expected, although it may partly be because I like the Arrow characters more than the Flash ones.

 

I was impressed at how mature everyone was, from Oliver's conversations with Barry, to Barry catching Felicity up on what was happening with him, to just generally everyone on both teams.  Thea as Speedy is a keeper.  And I think she conditions just fine. (What is it with Berlanti shows and conditioner?  Last week Cat Grant was telling Supergirl to do more.)

 

I still don't care about the Hawks although Falk can act and the actor playing Savage chewed the scenery nicely.  There is zero chemistry between Kendra and Cisco so I'm glad that's over.

 

Cisco continues to get on my nerves. He's like the cute puppy that everyone praised and now he won't stop the hijinks.  Shut up, Thea gets to name herself.

 

The  last scene with the kid in the coffee store brought everything to a screeching, unnecessary halt. Although Barry's comment to Oliver that may if he saved Star City they'd name a day after him came off as less mean than it did in the trailer.

 

 

Total screen time for the "leading ladies" of both shows tonight?  Iris got a brief one-line shot and Laurel got a miniscule mention of being in CC with mom.  Which makes all the sense in the world, that L - and her teammates - would consider time with mom more important than stopping an immortal killing machine.  Guess there was no option or chance of asking for her to help with VS while they were in CC after the Staff either.  Because, you know, reasons.

 

They hobbled Iris possibly beyond repair when they made her a journalist rather than the psychologist the casting side called for.  She doesn't know science like Caitlyn or Wells, and she doesn't know police work like Joe, Barry and Patty.  In an episode where they have to incorporate seven important additional characters on to the show, there isn't time for someone like Iris who really doesn't have anything to add to the plot.

 

Laurel hasn't been the de facto leading lady of Arrow for three seasons now and the writing has been having trouble putting her into the show almost as long.  They will probably say that Laurel was visiting her mother in Central City because Sara, from LoT, is there too.

 

 

I just wonder, though. How will they incorporate Oliver's flashback in a supposedly fast-paced episode?

I think the flashbacks will be of The Mummy ...  I mean Savage and the Hawks.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

They hobbled Iris possibly beyond repair when they made her a journalist rather than the psychologist the casting side called for.  She doesn't know science like Caitlyn or Wells, and she doesn't know police work like Joe, Barry and Patty.  In an episode where they have to incorporate seven important additional characters on to the show, there isn't time for someone like Iris who really doesn't have anything to add to the plot.

 

Laurel hasn't been the de facto leading lady of Arrow for three seasons now and the writing has been having trouble putting her into the show almost as long.  They will probably say that Laurel was visiting her mother in Central City because Sara, from LoT, is there too.

 

Weird, that's been Iris' running gag for most of this season (to date)......  Patty's gotten more screen time and important things to do/know than Iris.  Iris' whole reason to be on the show this season (so far) is for the not-dead MamaDrama and giving Barry the very occasional quick morale boost.

 

And that's a problem, to me, re: Laurel.  Having Black Canary on a show that's centered around Green Arrow; the female counterpart to the male costumed hero and she's not the "leading lady".  But that, sadly, seems to be par for the course for the guys running these shows. 

Edited December 2, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36