S02.E09: Sinned Against

[Tara Ariano]

Cookie and Candace recruit an ex-con to help them rescue their sister Carol; and Laz's romantic relationship with Cookie gets complicated when she finds out the truth about him. Meanwhile at Empire, Jamal collaborates with a pop star who connects with him on a deep level.

[mtlchick]

"Stop acting like Diahann Carroll, heffa!"  Hee hee!

 

I liked Rosie O'Donnell here.  She's been through a lot this year personally and while I don't expect her to have a full release from her personal turmoil, it was nice to see her channel her energy into acting.

 

I take it "Powerful" is this year's "Conqueror?" I thought it was fine but it didn't grab me. Neither did that kiss.  

 

Next week is "what crap can they possibly throw at us to drive us mad until it comes next year?"  Though I got excited that Naomi Campbell is back!

[sarkygal]

It sounded too much like Conqueror to me and I wasn't feeling it either. 

 

For all Cookie plays at being tough and the anticipation of her finding out about Laz, that was one weak pay off. Season 1 Cookie would have taken care of that herself and not handed the gun to Lucius. The snippy exposition between her & Vivica felt off and was poorly acted. I can't believe I just said that about Taraji, but she did not sell me Cookie in this episode.

 

I got behind the camp, the over the top costuming and swagger of Season 1, but this season is a bit of a hot mess. Hakeem & Andre are the only characters whose motivation and evolution makes sense. Every other character development is sacrificed for increasingly outlandish plotlines and guest star features. 

 

You don't spend the entire show with one of the larger conflicts being Jamal's sexuality to have him plant the most awkward kiss on Alicia Keys for no reason. Yes, i know he said he'd slept with Raven Symone's character once, but his entire arc has been getting Lucius and everyone else to allow him to live his true self. And the irony of it coming after some cathartic epiphany of a song about being who you are. It just makes no sense to me.

 

Rhonda's been in the Lyons' orbit for about 10 years now and she really believes a gift from Lucius comes with no strings attached?!? Even born again Andre wasn't buying that.

 

What level of hell is this Anika plotline coming from? It makes no sense and is so OOC. I just can't.

[Syndicate]

I missed the Diahann Carroll reference but I'm convinced that there are those in charge of this show who read message boards.  Ms. Carroll was first discussed on Empire message boards last season as an option for Cookie's mother.  I guess we're to assume that Laz was murdered courtesy of the gun that Cookie placed in Lucious' hand.  I hate having to speculate on things like this.  I'm unclear on Anika.  Will she be killing someone soon?  Hakeem's new young thing or maybe even Camilla?  Jamal kissed a girly!  I guess it was to be expected since he obviously had a sexual relationship with Olivia which was thought to have produced Lola.  But does all of this mean that Mal is likely bisexual rather than gay?

Edited November 26, 2015 by Syndicate

[wanderingstar]

Cookie was so great tonight - with Candace, with Carol, with Hakeem, with Laz and Lucious. Just loved her.

Anika may have gone crazy, but I still covet her wardrobe.

That whole leverage-the-assets plan is so not going to end well.

[Grace19]

Whatever possessed them to make Jamal kiss that girl? To make him more appealing? More sex? Jamal have never made much sense to me, even in season 1. They use the character to make any point they wanted to make without caring if it made sense. This is the worst they've done with this character, i'm over it at this point. Even cookie is now boring. Thank God for hakeem's storyline, its the only thing that makes sense now.

[Dee]

Cookie was so great tonight - with Candace, with Carol, with Hakeem, with Laz and Lucious. Just loved her.

Anika may have gone crazy, but I still covet her wardrobe.

That whole leverage-the-assets plan is so not going to end well.

 

I love the irony of Lucious downfall coming at the hands of a white woman after he warned Andre about the perils of white acceptance last season.

[Artsda]

Anika's circling articles like a lunatic all over Hakeem? I'd get it if she went this nuts after the broken Lucious engagement and he slept with Cookie, but over Hakeem? 

Cookie acts so tough and hate against Lucious but when she needs someone to handle her lying boyfriend, she just hands him a gun and walks out of the room? Handle your own business Cookie!

 

Loved the house Lucious bought Trey, but that staircase looks like it's asking for someone to push someone down it. Rhonda's taking a tumble before that baby is born.

 

Jamal and Alicia Key's song was good but woah at them kissing. That came out of nowhere, I guess he really was an OG fan.

[cali1981]

Jamal and Alicia Key's song was good but woah at them kissing. That came out of nowhere, I guess he really was an OG fan.

Well, if you're gay and going to be a bit bi-curious, Alicia Keys ain't exactly chopped liver.  Damn, the woman is drop dead gorgeous!

 

As far as Anika goes it looks like boo boo kitty is seriously delusional.  Between that and her pregnancy hormones, who knows what she's capable of. Grace Gealy sure is notching it up though, isn't she.

Edited November 26, 2015 by cali1981

[RCharter]

To me "Powerful" sounds exactly like the sort of music Alicia Keys normally sings.  I don't see the song as her straying into any other lanes

Whatever possessed them to make Jamal kiss that girl? To make him more appealing? More sex? Jamal have never made much sense to me, even in season 1. They use the character to make any point they wanted to make without caring if it made sense. This is the worst they've done with this character, i'm over it at this point. Even cookie is now boring. Thank God for hakeem's storyline, its the only thing that makes sense now.

There is this idea(?) that I've been hearing, that people are "pan-sexual" meaning they aren't particularly attracted to one sex or another, but rather they are attracted to individuals.  Perhaps they are trying to explore that idea.  Jamal had sexual feelings towards men and so he and everyone else around him assumed he must be gay, but in reality he is just drawn to individuals...men or women.  I'm not sure how I feel about the concept, but maybe thats what they were going for.

[RCharter]

I love the irony of Lucious downfall coming at the hands of a white woman after he warned Andre about the perils of white acceptance last season.

 

excellent point....i hadn't even thought of that.

"Stop acting like Diahann Carroll, heffa!"  Hee hee!

 

I liked Rosie O'Donnell here.  She's been through a lot this year personally and while I don't expect her to have a full release from her personal turmoil, it was nice to see her channel her energy into acting.

 

I take it "Powerful" is this year's "Conqueror?" I thought it was fine but it didn't grab me. Neither did that kiss.  

 

Next week is "what crap can they possibly throw at us to drive us mad until it comes next year?"  Though I got excited that Naomi Campbell is back!

 

Naomi Campbell!!!!! Hooray!!!!!!

 

I really enjoyed Rosie O'Donnell in this episode too.  It was a great and more natural fit.  I'm guessing its the catalyst for Cookie doing the second show at the prison....complete with a cookout.

 

Rhonda's been in the Lyons' orbit for about 10 years now and she really believes a gift from Lucius comes with no strings attached?!? Even born again Andre wasn't buying that.

 

What level of hell is this Anika plotline coming from? It makes no sense and is so OOC. I just can't.

I'm so sad about what they have done this Anika this season.  I enjoyed watching her get her comeuppance, but enough is enough.  They have had her absolutely stomped down at every turn.  She went from an smart, evil, beautiful, powerful woman, to someone pining after a kid and eating ice cream while doing stalker moves.  She has been reduced to nothing.  Writing "LIAR" on newspaper articles?  Geez.  I really wish it could have been her and cookie working together -- but they let that ship sail.  If not that, I wish it had at least been Anika getting revenge on Lucious, by using her brains and beauty.  If they are punishing her for her relationship with the actor who plays Andre.....mission accomplished, her character has been plenty punished.  Can we get back old Boo Boo Kitty that could stab you in your back and not break a nail?

 

Maybe Rhonda knows there are strings attached, but feels like it must be better to have those strings than to have Andre cast out from the family again.

[Primetimer]

Between the Pepsi, the deception, and the streaming, everyone's eyes are brown as can be.

Read the story

[mtlchick]

 

I love the irony of Lucious downfall coming at the hands of a white woman after he warned Andre about the perils of white acceptance last season.

 

That's what I thought the moment he finally told Andre to sell the other assets as when they buy Swiftstream they can buy it back.  I'm like "so at what point is Mimi going to admit that they got the guy more hepped up on drugs in the hospital so he didn't know what he was signing over and it becomes null and void?|

 

 

If not that, I wish it had at least been Anika getting revenge on Lucious, by using her brains and beauty.  If they are punishing her for her relationship with the actor who plays Andre.....mission accomplished, her character has been plenty punished.

 

I would really hope they wouldn't punish either of them for that, but I agree the 180 they're doing on Anika is horrible to her character.  Where's the girl who had some spunk last season? 

[Neurochick]

I have to say it, I liked "Powerful," I really do.  It sods like an interesting love song.

 

Why doesn't Anika just tell Hakeem, "I'M PREGNANT, you asshole!"

 

If they are punishing her for her relationship with the actor who plays Andre.....mission accomplished, her character has been plenty punished.

 

I don't get this  Why would anybody be punished for that?  If anything it adds to an gives more publicity to the show.  In novellas, they're always trying to make it look like two of the actors are together, to give the fans something to talk about.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Neurochick

[RCharter]

Why doesn't Anika just tell Hakeem, "I'M PREGNANT, you asshole!"

You know what kills me?  You can tell she is SOOOOO close to saying it when someone cuts her off.  She was literally in the middle of saying it, holding her (very flat) stomach when Hakeem cut her off!  I feel like she has been close to saying it to Hakeem at least twice, and Rhonda should have figured it out when she showed up at pregnancy yoga!

[darkestboy]

That completely unwanted kiss aside, I actually liked this one and even the music with Jamal and Skye. I do agree that Powerful, much as I love it seems like it's trying to be Conqueror 2.0 in a way.

Not sure about seeing Lee Daniels guesting in his own show, even if it was a little cameo and a snipe at Lucious.

Glad the Laz storyline is done with. Will be glad when Anika actually Hakeem she's pregnant.

Cookie, Carol, Candace and Pepper were all entertaining as well. I wonder what Carol actually did while Cookie was in prison though.

Andre and Rhonda should be suspicious of Lucious's motives, 8/10

[RCharter]

That completely unwanted kiss aside, I actually liked this one and even the music with Jamal and Skye. I do agree that Powerful, much as I love it seems like it's trying to be Conqueror 2.0 in a way.

Not sure about seeing Lee Daniels guesting in his own show, even if it was a little cameo and a snipe at Lucious.

Glad the Laz storyline is done with. Will be glad when Anika actually Hakeem she's pregnant.

Cookie, Carol, Candace and Pepper were all entertaining as well. I wonder what Carol actually did while Cookie was in prison though.

Andre and Rhonda should be suspicious of Lucious's motives, 8/10

I'm guessing she slept with Lucious right after Cookie went in and thats why he didn't go to see her in prison, but maybe thats too obvious.

[RCharter]

It sounded too much like Conqueror to me and I wasn't feeling it either. 

 

For all Cookie plays at being tough and the anticipation of her finding out about Laz, that was one weak pay off. Season 1 Cookie would have taken care of that herself and not handed the gun to Lucius. The snippy exposition between her & Vivica felt off and was poorly acted. I can't believe I just said that about Taraji, but she did not sell me Cookie in this episode.

Exactly!  Adam Rodriguez is beautiful, and I'm sad he has to die but Cookie should have been the one to do it.  It's no good having Cookie constantly pulling guns, if when she is called on to use one she hands it over to Lucious. 

 

But on an unrelated note, I agreed with everything Cookie wore tonight.  That hasn't happened in a loooong time.

[After7Only]

I kinda saw the kiss coming. Watching the earlier scenes with Jamal and Skye, Jamal totally looked like he had a crush on Skye. The shy boy smile, the not looking her in the eye. Definitely some chemistry there (up until the kiss itself...lol).

[taragel]

Powerful clearly seems to reference the Black Lives Matter movement (or really All Lives Matter--which I'm surprised they're fully embracing) given the lyrics ("I Matter, You Matter, We Matter"/"Every shade God Made is beautiful") -- I suppose that's the "Edge" they're talking about. It's not a love song for sorority girl breakups.

I imagine Jamal will be pansexual and that'll be an ongoing storyline for the rest of the season. It seems a little surprising, and like going for All Lives Matter instead of Black Lives Matter, I imagine they'll get some backlash.

Poor Anika. Over Hakeem. What a mess. I kind of like the Rhonda-Anika friendship though I can't imagine it'll last.

And is Rhonda really pregnant? Why did I think she had faked it?

[PepperMonkey]

I'm glad the Adam Rodriguez storyline is over as well. He is beautiful to look at, but didn't deserve Cookie. Also, yeah, I agree with several others that said Cookie would have thrown that man out herself or whatever. Do we know for sure he got killed? Did I miss something? I was checking on my ham during part of the episode.

 

I'm over Lucious. He acts like HE'S bipolar and 'Dre is the "sane" one. First he hates Andre and Rhonda then they tell him they're pregnant and now he's buying them houses. He wants Freda to be his "son" versus Hakeem in a rap battle he hoped would shame Hakeem and this week, he wants Hakeem back in the fold while simultaneously digging at him about how he's using the Lyon name. Last episode, he was so proud of Jamal getting the Pepsi spot and now, he's jealous and has to start behaving even more recklessly than usual so he can look like he's still relevant. Holy shnikies. He seems to have no idea those three boys are his legacy and even Cookie admitted he had done a good job with them while she was in prison.

 

I hate what they've done to Annika. It's like they can't have but ONE powerful, ambitious, successful black woman on the show so they have to turn Annika into a lovesick puppy with stalkeritis. Lovesick over HAKEEM. Who I love, but seriously, he's a boy, not a man yet and he's never really shown any enduring interest in Annika. I just don't believe they're even acting like she's the same woman as she was in season one and it bugs me. A lot.

 

Still, I'm in this crazy shite for the long haul. I can't get enough of Cookie, Dre and Hakeem.

Edited November 26, 2015 by PepperMonkey

[Domenicholas]

Maybe Jamal’s bisexual.  Or maybe Skye Summers identifies as a man and Jamal can sense that, who knows.

 

I bet Carol slept with Lucious while Cookie was in prison.

[KatWay]

I'm sorry but there's no way they can make Jamal anything but gay at this point and not have it come across as a desperate attempt to make him more...what? Sexy, relatable, because now he's making out with girls too? He grew up in an intensely homophobic evironment, if he was bisexual or pansexual, wouldn't he have tried to go in that direction a long time ago? This seems like a ratings grab.

 

If they had established him as struggling with his sexuality maybe, but Jamals has always been 100% sure and confident about the fact that he's gay. Come on. Experimentation can happen but typically you explore the socially accepted norm before you go for the one that makes your father shun you.

 

What the hell happened to the show? Nothing makes sense. It was crazy and over the top last season but there were still understandable character motivations and somewhat understandable plot lines. This season is a complete mess. What the hell happened to Anika? She used to be petty and vindictive now she's a crazy stalker over effing Hakeem of all people. What happened to Rhonda? She used to be Lady McBeth now she's window dressing.

[Dee]

Vivica Fox & Rosie O'Donnell have been pleasant additions to the cast. Hopefully we'll see more of them in the future.

[Happytobehere]

 I'm over Lucious. He acts like HE'S bipolar and 'Dre is the "sane" one. First he hates Andre and Rhonda then they tell him they're pregnant and now he's buying them houses. He wants Freda to be his "son" versus Hakeem in a rap battle he hoped would shame Hakeem and this week, he wants Hakeem back in the fold while simultaneously digging at him about how he's using the Lyon name. Last episode, he was so proud of Jamal getting the Pepsi spot and now, he's jealous and has to start behaving even more recklessly than usual so he can look like he's still relevant. Holy shnikies. He seems to have no idea those three boys are his legacy and even Cookie admitted he had done a good job with them while she was in prison.

This is what I've been thinking this as well. Something is off with him and it seems like he is unstable as well.

I also think this is like the third episode where there has been allusion to the fact that Lucious has and continues to sleep with men to advance his career. Puts a new spin on his contempt for Jamal. Does Lucious hate that which reflects what he is -- Andre and mental health and Jamal and sexuality.

[RCharter]

I'm glad the Adam Rodriguez storyline is over as well. He is beautiful to look at, but didn't deserve Cookie. Also, yeah, I agree with several others that said Cookie would have thrown that man out herself or whatever. Do we know for sure he got killed? Did I miss something? I was checking on my ham during part of the episode.

 

I'm over Lucious. He acts like HE'S bipolar and 'Dre is the "sane" one. First he hates Andre and Rhonda then they tell him they're pregnant and now he's buying them houses. He wants Freda to be his "son" versus Hakeem in a rap battle he hoped would shame Hakeem and this week, he wants Hakeem back in the fold while simultaneously digging at him about how he's using the Lyon name. Last episode, he was so proud of Jamal getting the Pepsi spot and now, he's jealous and has to start behaving even more recklessly than usual so he can look like he's still relevant. Holy shnikies. He seems to have no idea those three boys are his legacy and even Cookie admitted he had done a good job with them while she was in prison.

 

I hate what they've done to Annika. It's like they can't have but ONE powerful, ambitious, successful black woman on the show so they have to turn Annika into a lovesick puppy with stalkeritis. Lovesick over HAKEEM. Who I love, but seriously, he's a boy, not a man yet and he's never really shown any enduring interest in Annika. I just don't believe they're even acting like she's the same woman as she was in season one and it bugs me. A lot.

 

Still, I'm in this crazy shite for the long haul. I can't get enough of Cookie, Dre and Hakeem.

Thumbs up to this whole post.  I really thought I missed something because I was like "so, Pepsi wanted Jamal, and you somehow think they wanted their commercial to be about him paying homage to you? wait, what? did they ask you to submit a song?  no...so......"

 

I absolutely hate what they have done to Anika.  If they want to make Anika a crazy stalker, make her a crazy stalker over a man at least, not a little boy.  This is some Mary Kay Letourneau shit right here.  And it does not fit with Anika at all.  I want Boo Boo Kitty back!  This woman is weird!

This is what I've been thinking this as well. Something is off with him and it seems like he is unstable as well.

I also think this is like the third episode where there has been allusion to the fact that Lucious has and continues to sleep with men to advance his career. Puts a new spin on his contempt for Jamal. Does Lucious hate that which reflects what he is -- Andre and mental health and Jamal and sexuality.

wait, can you explain the bolded part?  I don't think you're wrong, I just don't get it.

[wanderingstar]

Of course Lucious thinks Jamal's Pepsi commercial should be about paying homage to Lucious. That man always thinks everything should be about him. Tbe fact that he decided to leverage his whole Empire because he was jealous over Jamal's success is so telling and so pathetic.

Jamal kissing Skye was jarring. Jamal's sexuality was such a big part of his character arc in S1, so this latest development is unexpected. I'm curious to see where they are going with it.

[Happytobehere]

wait, can you explain the bolded part?  I don't think you're wrong, I just don't get it.

There were two previous episodes (I don't remember the names or episod numbers, but one of them involved Jamal and the guy who expressed an interest in him) where Lucious referenced homosexual activity going on powerful people in the industry, and he had connections with them. In general, this means nothing, but there was an undertone to what Lucious said and the way said men looked at him that raised flags. Also, this episode, we had that scene with Lucious going to the trailer with Lee Daniel. The fact that this appears to be an underlying theme says something. Also, we saw young Lucious sleeping on the streets and unfortunately, that makes him ripe for certain types of predators.

[RCharter]

There were two previous episodes (I don't remember the names or episod numbers, but one of them involved Jamal and the guy who expressed an interest in him) where Lucious referenced homosexual activity going on powerful people in the industry, and he had connections with them. In general, this means nothing, but there was an undertone to what Lucious said and the way said men looked at him that raised flags. Also, this episode, we had that scene with Lucious going to the trailer with Lee Daniel. The fact that this appears to be an underlying theme says something. Also, we saw young Lucious sleeping on the streets and unfortunately, that makes him ripe for certain types of predators.

Thats interesting, I had never thought of it in that way.  I had thought he was just going to offer Lee Daniels some money or try to talk him into the "lucious" vision of the video.  But your explanation is interesting, and I can see the logic behind it.  I can't even think about a young boys falling victim to predators in that way, and I sure hope the show doesn't explore that, because I just don't think I could handle it.  

[Dee]

I appreciated the attention to styling for Cookie, Candace & Carol. 

 

Carol's drug bender aside, you could clearly tell the sisters individual personalities from their wardrobe. Prissy Candace demurely dressed from head to toe in regal white and lavender, bold Cookie decked out in scarlet furs and flashy patterns and poor downtrodden Carol outfitted in muted greys.

[tmelange]

Exactly!  Adam Rodriguez is beautiful, and I'm sad he has to die but Cookie should have been the one to do it.  It's no good having Cookie constantly pulling guns, if when she is called on to use one she hands it over to Lucious. 

 

But on an unrelated note, I agreed with everything Cookie wore tonight.  That hasn't happened in a loooong time.

 

I thought the parallel between Cookie showing up and exposing Anika last season, and being the one to throw her stuff out of Lucifer's house, and Lucifer showing up to expose Laz and being the one to take care of him worked really well. I didn't get the feel that Cookie should have handled it herself. I got the feeling that she and Lucifer (who have been a team since they were teens) have a way of handling people who come after them. Lucifer had two goons in the room; she let Lucifer do what he has always done for her -- take care of business. This dynamic was also evident when Lucifer was talking with her on the phone and she said she was in a bad neighborhood and he asked, "Do you need me to come and get you?" It all seems to be setting up the pulling together of the family when Lucifer loses Empire. The show has to keep the underlying connection between Cookie and Lucifer relevant. She's his ride-or-die chick, and he's the Clyde to her Bonnie. 

 

I also liked when Lucifer spilled that wine. Goes to show he's  just as dangerous to the food in the area when he's jealous as Cookie.

 

I thought Rosie did an excellent job. She was funny in a deadpan way. She's one special guest I hope they keep around. I also like Vivica and the whole sisters storyline. Taraji needs women to play off of.

 

I love Alicia Keys, but her and Jussie singing in the same...what's it called...register? I don't know. I need some bass in a male-female duet. I did think it was cute that Alicia was watching Jamal singing the Pepsi song, which was produced by her husband, Swiss Beatz.

 

I don't know what's going on with that kiss, but I can buy a gay guy being confused. God knows gay guys sleep with women all the time, whether they're in or out of the closet. I can give the writers some rope, I guess.

 

I thought the cameo by Lee Daniels was hysterical. When he refused to go to Lucifer's trailer I fell out.

[tmelange]

Oh, I had one more thing to say about Lucifer: I think the show glossed over the stint in jail. Being in jail is traumatic. You're exposed to indignities great and small. No one walks out without being affected. I've thought this whole season that Lucifer -- by virtue of the shaved hair etc -- has a manic menace about him. With the flashbacks to his childhood and the way he seems to be acting out in every direction about his sons, I can see sort of a break coming. In a minute, he's going to need Cookie to pull him back from the ledge. I already have him singing the Usher part in my head:

 

Cookie: You're gonna want me back

LuciferUsher: That's the last words she said to me / now I'm wishing she was still here with me

Cookie: You're going to need me one day

LuciferUsher: Said I'm about to go crazy / 'Cause I been needin' you lately / I'm goin' outta my head and all the things that I said I wish that I never said them now

 

nod nod /Throwback lol

[cyberfruit]

Mimi kissing Luscious, Jamal kissing Skye -- What the fuck. Can we please respect the sexuality of these characters, Empire writers? 

 

Continuing to hate what they've done to Anita's character this season. I refuse to believe that this obsessive, stalkery mess is Boo Boo Kitty. 

 

Also, I'm upset that I had to listen to Alicia Keys' voice for the last half of the episode. Her voice is unpleasant to my ears. 

[RCharter]

I thought the parallel between Cookie showing up and exposing Anika last season, and being the one to throw her stuff out of Lucifer's house, and Lucifer showing up to expose Laz and being the one to take care of him worked really well. I didn't get the feel that Cookie should have handled it herself. I got the feeling that she and Lucifer (who have been a team since they were teens) have a way of handling people who come after them. Lucifer had two goons in the room; she let Lucifer do what he has always done for her -- take care of business. This dynamic was also evident when Lucifer was talking with her on the phone and she said she was in a bad neighborhood and he asked, "Do you need me to come and get you?" It all seems to be setting up the pulling together of the family when Lucifer loses Empire. The show has to keep the underlying connection between Cookie and Lucifer relevant. She's his ride-or-die chick, and he's the Clyde to her Bonnie. 

 

I also liked when Lucifer spilled that wine. Goes to show he's  just as dangerous to the food in the area when he's jealous as Cookie.

 

I thought Rosie did an excellent job. She was funny in a deadpan way. She's one special guest I hope they keep around. I also like Vivica and the whole sisters storyline. Taraji needs women to play off of.

 

I love Alicia Keys, but her and Jussie singing in the same...what's it called...register? I don't know. I need some bass in a male-female duet. I did think it was cute that Alicia was watching Jamal singing the Pepsi song, which was produced by her husband, Swiss Beatz.

 

I don't know what's going on with that kiss, but I can buy a gay guy being confused. God knows gay guys sleep with women all the time, whether they're in or out of the closet. I can give the writers some rope, I guess.

 

I thought the cameo by Lee Daniels was hysterical. When he refused to go to Lucifer's trailer I fell out.

 

I remember watching a documentary about the either the ancient Romans or the ancient Greeks (think it was the Romans).  Anyways, I remember one of the professors saying that ancient Romans would be confused by how we see sexuality now.  They never thought of being straight, gay or bi.....they just had sex with whomever they wanted to.  And that sexuality, as we see it, was more a construct of rulers trying to ensure the family unit and to keep up the birth rate.  Now we have the idea of "pan-sexuality" where people are just attracted to other people, no matter what the sex.  I'm not sure how I feel about it.....I don't like innies, I only like outties.  But its an interesting idea that has been around the block.

 

I hadn't considered that Cookie took care of Anika last season, and Lucious is now taking care of Laz.  But Cookie has been the one to pull a gun real quick, and talk about this and that, and she was a drug dealer in the streets (right?).  I never saw Cookie as one for empty threats, but if you're the type of person that pulls a gun, but isn't prepared to use it -- you're a little bit of talk, and not all the action.  I always saw Cookie as being talk and action.  And if you can't shoot a dude that kidnapped your son, lied to you about it, and slept in your bed while conspiring against you?  I don't know....

 

Lucifer knows how to spoil a bottle of wine, but NOTHING will compare to Cookie pulling that tablecloth.  That was the best!  Especially because she didn't stop until ALL that food was on the floor.

[Fable]

I hate what they've done to Annika. It's like they can't have but ONE powerful, ambitious, successful black woman on the show so they have to turn Annika into a lovesick puppy with stalkeritis. Lovesick over HAKEEM. Who I love, but seriously, he's a boy, not a man yet and he's never really shown any enduring interest in Annika. I just don't believe they're even acting like she's the same woman as she was in season one and it bugs me. A lot.

 

 

I'm not a fan of what they are doing with Anika either.  Mind you, I didn't like Anika in season 1, but she was bad ass and I appreciated her for it.   This stalkery, bat-shit crazy behavior seems like it came out of left field and is so very out of character.  I cannot even take this story line seriously. 

 

There are a few other things going on with this show that I have to roll my eyes at, but the Anika thing is the biggest WTF ever!

[Syndicate]

The writers are going to inflict the "Steven Carrington" syndrome on Jamal. When Steven Carrington first started out on Dynasty, the original plan was for him to play a full-blown gay character, but as the show progressed, Steven was written as dating both men and women equally. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Jamal's future relationships include both sexes.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Syndicate

[tmelange]

I don't mind the Anika storyline, but I would have preferred it if she didn't say she was in love with Hakeem. I think it's more indicative of the mindset they're going for if they had left it at her saying, "I know you love me," because then I could buy that her sense of self-worth has been destroyed.

 

Anyway, she's obviously going to kill someone. I agree that those stairs loom large, and the fact that Anika was even in that house that they just got (all the way out in Long Island), does not bode well for Rhonda or the baby. I was sort of screaming at the screen when Hakeem started going off on Anika for him to dial it back. I guess he never got that advice from his mom not to antagonize the woman who you're trying to dump.

 

I hope both Anika and Rhonda make it to next season. I like both characters.

 

Poor Laura. I like her, but she lacks that pop. I think Becky G (who played Valentina) would have been a bit more spicy. As a person who grew up in the Bronx, I know Anika would have drawn back a nub if she had come out like that with anyone I grew up with. lol

 

As for Cookie -- I guess I was okay with how it played out with Laz because I'm from the old school where the women take care of problems with women, and I let my man handle any problems I have with dudes. Not that I can't handle it, but that's what he's there for. Gotta let the dude be a dude. lol Anyone else notice that Laz could barely hold that gun he was pointing properly. lol

Edited November 26, 2015 by tmelange

[cyberfruit]

The writers are going to inflict the "Steven Carrington" syndrome on Jamal. When Steven Carrington first started out on Dynasty, the original plan was for him to play a full-blown gay character, but as the show progressed, Steven was written as dating both men and women equally. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Jamal's future relationships include both sexes.

 

Oh, I hope not. As a bisexual woman, believe me when I say that I would love to have more positive bisexual characters on TV because I'm tired of us being written as villains or always meeting an untimely death. But, I also want the same for gay and lesbian characters, as well, instead of kowtowing to whatever powers that be.

 

The average person watching these shows isn't going to think, "Oh, I thought he was gay but now he may be bisexual? That's actually not out of the realm of possibility! Understanding one's sexuality can be an arduous process.", it's more like, "There's too much gay shit on TV and I'm tired of it, so I'm glad I don't have to see as much of it anymore." with a dash of, "homosexuality is a choice -- look at Mimi and Jamal!", and that's what upsets me so much about these characters.

Edited November 26, 2015 by cyberfruit

[RCharter]

I don't mind the Anika storyline, but I would have preferred it if she didn't say she was in love with Hakeem. I think it's more indicative of the mindset they're going for if they had left it at her saying, "I know you love me," because then I could buy that her sense of self-worth has been destroyed.

 

 

Poor Laura. I like her, but she lacks that pop. I think Becky G (who played Valentina) would have been a bit more spicy. As a person who grew up in the Bronx, I know Anika would have drawn back a nub if she had come out like that with anyone I grew up with. lol

 

. lol Anyone else notice that Laz could barely hold that gun he was pointing properly. lol

The evil beauty of Boo Boo Kitty (why do I love that name so much?) was that she was the sort that could lay you flat without breaking a nail, she was that girl that could stab you without breaking a nail, but her scheming always seemed logical.  And, I realize that a wig may change a persons look, but if I were Laura, I would have been like "why is the taxi driver yelling at me?"  Anika could be an antagonist to Cookie, because she was such a schemer and was able to leverage her power against her competition.  Cookie had her street smarts, but she was so up front about everything.  Anika was a schemer and was always about playing that mental chess.  I really wish she and cookie could have worked together against Lucious, Heck, since Hakeem was over her and onto the next girl, I feel like Cookie should have been able to at least work with Anika.

 

But, I'm curious about where they are going to go with it.  Anika is nuts, however, she was right about being the first person that Hakeem went to in his time of need and I don't know what that means.  Maybe it just means they are homies.  And I'm super excited for the return of Camilla, because she is going to cause drama too!  How about Anika and Camilla work together?  Hooray! And frankly, Laura and Hakeem really don't have any chemistry so I'm ready for her and Mirage A Trois to maybe go on tour or something.

 

Laz's gun was such a wee little thing....it looked like a Saturday Night Special.  He might as well have just kept it in a purse in case he got harassed by a horny dude or dudette outside the club.

[Dee]

I remember watching a documentary about the either the ancient Romans or the ancient Greeks (think it was the Romans).  Anyways, I remember one of the professors saying that ancient Romans would be confused by how we see sexuality now.  They never thought of being straight, gay or bi.....they just had sex with whomever they wanted to.  And that sexuality, as we see it, was more a construct of rulers trying to ensure the family unit and to keep up the birth rate.  Now we have the idea of "pan-sexuality" where people are just attracted to other people, no matter what the sex.  I'm not sure how I feel about it.....I don't like innies, I only like outties.  But its an interesting idea that has been around the block.

 

I hadn't considered that Cookie took care of Anika last season, and Lucious is now taking care of Laz.  But Cookie has been the one to pull a gun real quick, and talk about this and that, and she was a drug dealer in the streets (right?).  I never saw Cookie as one for empty threats, but if you're the type of person that pulls a gun, but isn't prepared to use it -- you're a little bit of talk, and not all the action.  I always saw Cookie as being talk and action.  And if you can't shoot a dude that kidnapped your son, lied to you about it, and slept in your bed while conspiring against you?  I don't know....

 

Lucifer knows how to spoil a bottle of wine, but NOTHING will compare to Cookie pulling that tablecloth.  That was the best!  Especially because she didn't stop until ALL that food was on the floor.

 

Cookie isn't one for idle threats, especially when it comes to her family, but she also isn't a killer; except as a last resort. 

[represent]

 

I really enjoyed Rosie O'Donnell in this episode too.

Whatever her personal issues, I've always found Rosie to be a funny comedian and just an overall talent.

I'll check out whatever she's in and was happy to see her in this. 

 

I can't wait for the next episode, Luscious and Cookie just have bond and I think it would be there even if they didn't have children in common. He's got her back and she has his if it's ever truly needed. She makes me soften toward Luscious when most of the time he bugs me.

Edited November 26, 2015 by represent

[represent]

 

As for Cookie -- I guess I was okay with how it played out with Laz because I'm from the old school where the women take care of problems with women, and I let my man handle any problems I have with dudes.

This is how I see it as well, Luscious is standing right there with his back up, why should she take care of it?  She's no killer at heart IMO and her son was sitting right there. I believe it's when she looked down at Hakeem sitting there that she snapped out of it and turned the whole thing over to Luscious. 

 

I just love Hakeem and Cookie. I like her with Jamal as well, but I love her with Hakeem. I love their scenes, I think because based on what I've read here he's never had his mother until now.

Edited November 26, 2015 by represent

[TobinAlbers]

I so hope we get to see Candace's husband and two kids. Really want to see who they would cast as her husband. What does he do? How did they meet? Wonder if Andre knows he's not the only one in the family that married from the outside?

Lucious's pride goeth before a fall is bringing everyone down with him.

That staircase in Andre/Rhonda's new home is like Chekov's gun. And Anika is so gonna be the one to pull the trigger.

When Cookie was looking for Rosie's character and gliding through the streets of the suburb while talking to Lucious about the dangerous neighborhood she was in, one of the child actresses does a cute awed double take at Cookie as she stalked behind her that was hilarious. Too funny.

Edited November 27, 2015 by TobinAlbers

[DiabLOL]

Why couldn't they let Jamal be gay? It's not like they have a few other regular characters who are also gay and then they could have this one character face this issue. He could, as a gay man, have many many plot lines without succumbing to the charms of Alicia Keys! 

 

Which brings me to the plot issues. I can't remember if I noticed this last season but it feels to me like every plot line that's introduced is resolved in a five minute disappointing wrap up. It's getting ridiculous. This isn't the same as having a bisexual character. I don't know what they think they're doing but it's feeling very homophobic to me and I didn't expect that from this show. It's like they're saying "hey we know he's supposed to be gay but come on no man is totally gay if a hot woman is vibing with him!" I was also super bored by the Alicia Keys story line and kept dreading move scenes with her and Jamal. Why am I supposed to care about her? She just showed up!

 

Which brings me to how much more I want to see over the top luxury items they are into. I'd love a tour or Lucious' art collection for example! I know Cookie wears insane expensive outfits but I want more details! When they're having tea or something I want it to be nuts. I guess I'm starting to get bored with the whole show because it doesn't allow me to invest caring in anyone at this point. 

 

I'm also really hating the whole Boo Boo Kitty loses her shit story line. I loved how hard as nails she was last season and now she's trying to trap Hakeem and is quickly sliding into bunny boiling mode. I don't think it's in keeping with a character I felt I'd gotten to know. If I were to bet on anyone losing it it would be Lucious for crying out loud! Those flashbacks are chilling!

Edited November 26, 2015 by DiabLOL

[Empress1]

There was a recent article about racial profiling on the Main Line (very affluent suburbs outside of Philly, http://www.phillymag.com/articles/racial-profiling-main-line/)that I flashed to when Cookie said she was alone in a dangerous neighborhood and they showed her surrounded by Lululemon-wearing, yoga-mat-toting blondes.

I loved both Rosie O'Donnell and Vivica Fox in this. I was like "Really?" when I saw her name, but she turned out to be a welcome addition.

A friend of mine who is Black and gay was furious about Jamal, because he feels like there are so few Black gay successful good dudes on TV. Like, he felt like Jamal was "his," in a sense, and having him kiss Sky cheapened that. I feel that way about Boo Boo Kitty; I wasn't a debutante (I didn't even know we still did that until I had a roommate who had been one) but I do have two professional parents, a lot of private education, etc. So I don't enjoy seeing Annika not doing anything with her resources but lusting after a 20-year-old.

This deal Andre is cooking up is going to run Empire into the ground, which will have him back on the outs with Lucious. Calling it.

[RCharter]

There was a recent article about racial profiling on the Main Line (very affluent suburbs outside of Philly, http://www.phillymag.com/articles/racial-profiling-main-line/)that I flashed to when Cookie said she was alone in a dangerous neighborhood and they showed her surrounded by Lululemon-wearing, yoga-mat-toting blondes.

I loved both Rosie O'Donnell and Vivica Fox in this. I was like "Really?" when I saw her name, but she turned out to be a welcome addition.

A friend of mine who is Black and gay was furious about Jamal, because he feels like there are so few Black gay successful good dudes on TV. Like, he felt like Jamal was "his," in a sense, and having him kiss Sky cheapened that. I feel that way about Boo Boo Kitty; I wasn't a debutante (I didn't even know we still did that until I had a roommate who had been one) but I do have two professional parents, a lot of private education, etc. So I don't enjoy seeing Annika not doing anything with her resources but lusting after a 20-year-old.

This deal Andre is cooking up is going to run Empire into the ground, which will have him back on the outs with Lucious. Calling it.

That article makes Cookie's comment hilarious.

 

Anika needs to start asking herself "WWWGD"  in other words "What Would Whitney Gilbert Do?"  Whitney Gilbert wouldn't have done any of this.

 

I'm not sure where Lee Daniels is going with Jamal.  I would like to think he isn't giving into backlash from people who were "grossed out" by "gay stuff" and that he just wanted to explore the pan-sexuality thing.  But it is worth noting that they got rid of Michael pretty early on, and now there is Skye, so I can see how your friend might think they are just trying to take Jamal away from him....

[thuganomics85]

I still don't think I ever really considered Alicia Keys' character as "Skye", because she's just Alicia Keys to me, and I can't see her any other way.  Still, she was looking great in this episode.  Great enough to suddenly make Jamal make-out with her?  Now, that I'm not so sure.  This is one twist I'm not a huge fan of.  Even if it was a one-time thing (he really is a fan, after-all), it just felt cheap and kind of silly, and not in a way that usually works on this show.  Plus, I don't see this really lasting long enough to mean anything, because are they really going to get Alicia Keys for that long of an arc?  Because she strikes me as someone who would only be in two episodes at best.

 

Weird way to wrap up the Laz plot.  After a quick meeting, Lucious gets suspicious/jealous and just investigates him, and find outs the truth.  I was hoping that it would either be Cookie or even Hakeem who put the pieces together instead.  Is he dead now?  I mean, it wouldn't be the first body Lucious drops, but would be willing to risk it, again?

 

Anika's turn into a typical crazy stalker now, which is disappointing.  But I did find the scene with her and Rhonda kind of fun.  Of course, on Empire, a story about how someone cut off a rival's ponytail and then threaten to worse next time, would be considered inspirational!

 

Totally think Lucious made a huge mistake selling off other parts of Empire for that streaming service.  It is going to backfire on him somehow.

 

Rosie O'Donnell was actually kind of fun.  Not sure what the point was of Lee Daniels appearing himself.  I guess the question now is when is Danny Strong going to cameo?

 

Wasn't a fan of this one, but next week looks awesome, especially with the return of a certain character!

[lovinbob]

Also, I'm upset that I had to listen to Alicia Keys' voice for the last half of the episode. Her voice is unpleasant to my ears. 

I normally love Alicia Keys's voice, but in this episode it felt like a lot of yelling. I did love the song, though.

 

For some reason I get grossed out watching Hakeem kiss his various women. He comes across as if he's 17--it just feels inappropriate to me.

[memememe76]

Rosie is my favourite guest star appearance since Cuba. Bring back Cuba! Cookie doesn't really have an ally who is not completely wacky. Rosie's character certainly has her dark side, but she seems solid and sensible. I buy this, plus her ability to bake well. 

 

I like Vivica too. Her disappointment over Carol's choice and her promise to keep the kids safe touched me. 

 

I liked Powerful, but kinda loved Miracles. 

[Grace19]

I love both miracle and powerful, the thing with powerful is that it was obvious that they were trying too hard to make it a hit, that it sounded desperate. Hakeem and laura are too cute, i love them. Can't wait for camilla next week!