B&B: What's Up Today at Forrester Creations? - Daily Chat

[CountryGirl]

Great post, runthetable.

 

It reminded me of the late, great Doug Marland's rules for How Not to Wreck a Show:

 

* Watch the show.

 

* Learn the history of the show. You would be surprised at the ideas that you can get from the back story of your characters.

 

* Read the fan mail. The very characters that are not thrilling to you may be the audience's favorites.

 

* Be objective. When I came in to ATWT, the first thing I said was, what is pleasing the audience? You have to put your own personal likes and dislikes aside and develop the characters that the audience wants to see.

 

* Talk to everyone; writers and actors especially. There may be something in a character's history that will work beautifully for you, and who would know better than the actor who has been playing the role?

 

* Don't change a core character. You can certainly give them edges they didn't have before, or give them a logical reason to change their behavior. But when the audience says, "He would never do that," then you have failed.

 

* Build new characters slowly. Everyone knows that it takes six months to a year for an audience to care about a new character. Tie them in to existing characters. Don't shove them down the viewers' throats.

 

* If you feel staff changes are in order, look within the organization first. P&G [Procter & Gamble] does a lot of promoting from within. Almost all of our producers worked their way up from staff positions, and that means they know the show.

 

* Don't fire anyone for six months. I feel very deeply that you should look at the show's canvas before you do anything.

 

* Good soap opera is good storytelling. It's very simple.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Well now, Chuck Pratt over on Y&R seems to have made it his mission to go against every single one of those rules. You'd think that soaps being on their last gasp would make a producer not want to thumb their nose at the audience. That is unless they're on a network-supported mission to kill the show because of the expense...

 

And a character that might have appeal (Ivy) is being thrown under the bus and watching a character be destroyed for plot pointy reasons is not entertaining to me.

I'm not convinced what's going on with Ivy is entirely about plot. Perhaps the designated star of the summer was getting bothered by all the accolades her co-star has been receiving. I'm seeing some parallels to some stuff that went on on AMC back in the day.

[thewhiteowl]

I think (with no evidence at all except for the soaps I currently watch) that the current crop of soap "writers" kind of dismiss Marland's Rules as old-fashioned. For a kinder, gentler time in soap history. Most new characters are tied to the canvas but there are so many newbies it becomes a joke. JMO

[godfreydaniels]

I absolutely hate the way ivy and Wyatt kiss.....talk about suck face! Just ewwee! And on the subject of lips, I do believe Steffeys lips are growing ! why doesn't she leave them alone???

[RuntheTable]

Great post, runthetable.

 

 

Thanks CountryGirl, I was on my soapbox this morning with fully fueled jets. Seems like me and Mr. Marland think alike, too bad Bradley missed that boat. 

 

In all honesty though, sometimes I wish I hadn't watched the show from the beginning, because then I wouldn't have that imaginary measuring stick, and wouldn't realize how bad the show has become.

Edited August 19, 2015 by RuntheTable

[Artsda]

If Steffy's so innocent as she proclaims, why is she hiding and lying to the cops about the tire iron?

 

At least Wyatt had the common sense to tell Steffy that logically the video is saved elsewhere by now. That video would have been backed up on her cloud by now and she could have emailed it to herself.  

[BucFan]

I absolutely hate the way ivy and Wyatt kiss.....talk about suck face! Just ewwee!

I agree, it's cringe worthy!

[thewhiteowl]

If Steffy's so innocent as she proclaims, why is she hiding and lying to the cops about the tire iron?

 

At least Wyatt had the common sense to tell Steffy that logically the video is saved elsewhere by now. That video would have been backed up on her cloud by now and she could have emailed it to herself.

The best acting the actor has ever done is Steffy acting guilty as fuck. lol

[sugarbaker design]

Perhaps the designated star of the summer was getting bothered by all the accolades her co-star has been receiving.

 

 

Someone on this trainwreck is getting accolades?!  I'm afraid to ask.

[Anna Yolei]

Apparently because its the summer of the youngins. There was a summer promo yesterday (yes a summer promo with only 2 weeks left in August) that was completely about the younger characters (including Carter which amused me since they do shit with him buy you know he's hot so there you go).

Can you believe there was once a time, as recently as five years ago, when most were actually ASKING for new, younger characters to be integrated into the show?

The key word being "intergrated," and not shoved down our throats because reasons. There's very little to remind me of the B&B I grew up with anymore. Rick's back history with Amber and raising little Eric was a huge part of this character that's been largely forgotten, and I don't even blame St. Maya for that. Bridget was wasted on Nick N.Sane for far too long and then written out the moment she finally got her miracle baby.

Hell, Ridge and Brooke haven't shared a scene in months. Mind you, I DON'T miss their relationship eating up this show, but for better or worse they were a huge part of this show.

And a character that might have appeal (Ivy) is being thrown under the bus and watching a character be destroyed for plot pointy reasons is not entertaining to me. Its also annoying that a potentially good couple in Ivy and Wyatt is being destroyed before it can really begin.

I can't say I'm surprised. This always happens. Once upon a time, it was to prop up Ridge. Now, it's to prop up his devil spawn Steffy.

If Steffy's so innocent as she proclaims, why is she hiding and lying to the cops about the tire iron?.

Because lying and scheming is second nature to her. That'd be my best guess as to why this stupidity is being entertained.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Someone on this trainwreck is getting accolades?!  I'm afraid to ask.

Well, I was being a little hyperbolic but in soap forumland plenty of people have been commenting highly positively on AB's looks and some are doing it in direct comparison to JMW's.

[Waldo13]

Now I'm wondering if Ivy has taken a page from Billy's book, of Y&R fame, and is lashing out at Steffy over her feelings of guilt. Like Billy, for DD's death, Ivy is feeling somewhat responsible for Ally's death. Billy left DD in the car and Ivy sat in her car recording. I loved that Ivy shit all over Liam and Liam just gave one of his famous blank stares. Why, in the world, Wyatt didn't lie to Steffy and tell her he deleted the video? And, to top it off, he just had to tell Steffy he slept with Ivy. Wyatt is starting to get as dumb as Liam. Also, Steffy is starting to move into Rick's persona where she said that she is president and should be respected. Well, bitch, respect should be earned and not demanded.

[Gudzilla]

Why doesn't Lt. Baker interview Ivy ? She was there and it could lead to him being distracted by a Vegemite sandwich.

[Sayla Vee]

I know who should NOT be Forrester's new lead model.  Linsey Godfrey.  This girl, to me, is so beautiful that I have trouble seeing anything but her in her scenes.  Models are supposed to just show the fashion, not themselves.  For me, that would be impossible if Linsey were on the runway.

 

 

[LittleIggy]

Let's just assume for the sake of argument that there is no "Ivy using the video for leverage" sl. Let's just say that Thomas actually has two brain cells to rub together and thinks that Ivy would be a better "Face of Forrester" than Steffy. Why would that be disloyal to Steffy, "throwing her under the bus"? It would be a rational business decision.

[Joimiaroxeu]

I hate to say it but my girl Ivy is starting to look a little crazypants now. If she's this bitter because some guy left her for another woman--a woman who was already a big part of his past and who he had unfinished business with--she's probably going to have a rough time making it out of her twenties without going completely bonkers.

 

Is Steffy about to compete in the Miss Forrester beauty pageant or something? She's wearing enough hair for three women.

 

So is this the part where Waffles decides to drop Steffy because she's been lying (by omission) about her part in Aly's death? And then he goes sniffing around Ivy again? And Ivy starts singing ♫...torn between two lovers...♫ before she triumphantly takes Liam back? Not interested in seeing any of that.

[KerleyQ]

So is this the part where Waffles decides to drop Steffy because she's been lying (by omission) about her part in Aly's death? And then he goes sniffing around Ivy again? And Ivy starts singing ♫...torn between two lovers...♫ before she triumphantly takes Liam back? Not interested in seeing any of that.

 

 

It would be nice if they surprised us and had Ivy say "no thanks" if he comes sniffing around her. 

[Anna Yolei]

Women on this show never get over a man...not really. Taylor and Brooke have thorn away so any men to chase after Ridge, it's ridiculous. But unlike Liam and his many sex objects ( I won't call them his "loves," because that implies actual thought and compassion on his behalf) the two of them had developed personalities and interests outside of Ridge's disco stick so I could get invested into one side or the other.

I ask again: what was the point of Ivy and Steffy both being "done" with him? To shut us up for two days before Steffy took his ass back and Ivy waits for his scraps? If these idiots wanted to revisit Steam, why not have it happen six months down the road, have the two split up for some other unrelated reason and go from there? The way it happened now does no one any favors.

[RuntheTable]

Yesterday's show caused me to sit back on my haunches and rethink my thinking. I have liked Ivy from day one; sweet, sincere, integrity, beautiful, all describe her. But she really won me over when she told Liam she wasn't having any of his stuff, because she did have her dignity. Then the show pulled out their potato masher and set to work on the character, mushing Ivy up and altering her personality. She went from that strong girl who wasn't going to be with a man on false pretenses, to B&B's standard stereotypical female, with the longing longs, always pining, and talking about "the guy". But watching Ivy put on her bitch face yesterday and read Liam? Wow. She wore that very well. And Liam, standing there mammering on about how "I really did love you", and "I know this is about me leaving you for Steffy", just caused me to want to hurl. Arrogant much pal? To compound his outlandish behavior, the fool wasn't even man enough to stand toe to toe with Ivy. He must have got in the wrong dresser drawer yesterday morning and inadvertently put on Steffy's girlie panties, because he was sure acting like a little bitch. I couldn't believe my ears when he said, "I am not going to stand here", and started to storm out in a huff. It appears Liam doesn't like being told about himself too much, and I fully expected him to be overcome with a case of the vapors. 

 

And then we have Steffy, hightailing it over to Wyatt's, just walking in and making her demands. I know Steffy didn't mean to hurt Ally, but all this self preservation and talk about her innocence is starting to grate. The fact remains that she either struck Ally causing her to fall, or she may have missed Ally altogether, but still caused her to lose her balance and fall. Just own it. There is no shame in Steffy's actions, but she is coming off like the entitled TayTot that she has always been. Not only trying to hide what really happened, but threatening Wyatt, and telling him what to do with his new girlfriend and his life. I just wish she would bugger off already. 

 

Steffy and Liam turn my tummy over; both self centered and self serving, thinking they are the walking, talking embodiment of what all men and women desire. I really don't care what Ivy's true motivations are anymore. I hope she sticks them both real good. 

 

Thomas my man, if you value your life and your nose, you will move away from Caroline. Ridge may be your dad, and he may be older, but Ridge is a man, not a boy. So you can bugger the fuck off too.

[ByTor]

I agree with all the above, with the exception of Caroline/Ridge. I don't care who she ends up with, as long as her squickfest with Ridge is over & done with.

[Joimiaroxeu]

squickfest with Ridge

I feel the same way, sorry to say. TK can usually sell a romantic pairing but this one still doesn't work for me. If she was some random woman and not The Caroline Spencer I think his friends and family would be a lot more bothered about the age difference. I see his having been with Caroline 1.0 as a big ick factor too.

 

I'd like to see Quinn and Ridge have a go at it. They're both extremely passionate people and it might be hot to watch.

[NinjaPenguins]

I really need Thomas to stop leering at Caroline at work. It's creepy and sexual harrassment-y.

Liam, I just...marvel at how such an insubstantial wisp of a character can generate such fury in me. Listen to that junior high acting asscramp mewling on about how Steffy shoulda heard what mean ol' Ivy just said about her. I've said it before, and I shall say it again: Waffles loves to provoke women into fighting about or over him. And he wears really dumb suits. I wish we got a daily dose of characters reading Liam for the SNAG filth that he is. It could culminate in Pam bouncing a lemon square off his stupidly furrowed brow.

Then we have Liam's perfect match, Steffy, daring to call Ivy immature while no doubt plotting her next trip to the dollar store to buy more plastic parachute men for her and Waffle's sexay times. She's the boss, y'all, and Ivy needs to respect that kind of nepotism-derived authority.

I'll starting rooting for this couple when I'm done rooting for Victor Newman over at Y&R. Mark your calendars: Never o'clock on Neverday in Neveruary, 20never.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

STEFFY'S FAKE HAIR HAS TO GO!!!

[OhioSongbird]

I'm about 3 days behind but am addicted to this forum.  Hubby's home on va-ca this week and I don't like to yell and throw things at the TV while he's here.  I'll have a marathon this Sunday. 

 

I really like Scott Clifton but the guy has been horribly miscast/used on OLTL and now here.

 

Mr. Songbird saw Steffy one day last week whilst passing thru the living room and said:  "What the hell did she do to her face?"  Mind you he never saw her before...as I...I've only been watching since Nov but her *ahem* work ain't working.  Whoever posted that Bratz Doll pic is spot-on. 

 

Totally OT but we have to have our beloved Gracie dog put down today.  She's 13 and has had a good life.  She's a stray I found when she was appx 8 months old.  Golden Retriever.  Anyone who has owned one knows they are the biggest lovers in the world.

 

I need a cyber hug.

[grisgris]

(((HUGS!))) OhioSongBird. I'm sorry for your loss.

[OhioSongbird]

Thank you grisgris.  I'm a freakin' mess today as you can tell.  Trying not to cry in front of my customers.

[thewhiteowl]

Lots of cyber hugs for you OhioSongbird.  I'll cry so you don't have to.

[Snaporaz]

So sorry, OhioSongbird. It's really the worst feeling. You've got as many cyber hugs as you want over here.

[RuntheTable]

Hugs and more hugs OhioSongbird, I just went through the same thing in March. My avatar is our new addition cause I was inconsolable. 

[NinjaPenguins]

So sorry, OhioSongbird. Consider yourself cyberhugged.

[KerleyQ]

Sending you cyberhugs, OhioSongbird. 

[ByTor]

I'm glad you were able to give the little sweetie pie a good life, OhioSongbird!  Hugs to you, I know how devastating this is.

[OhioSongbird]

This is why I love you guys.  It's like having dinner with a bunch of friends.  Snarky, loving and understanding.

 

Thank you all for the condolences.  I know she's in a better place.

 

And thanks for all the hugs....I needed it.

[Kitty Redstone]

Cyberhugs are coming your way, OhioSongbird.  I'm so sorry for your loss.

[thewhiteowl]

I really like Scott Clifton but the guy has been horribly miscast/used on OLTL and now here.

 

 I don't recall if I have seen him on anything else but I don't know many actors that could pull this off. He has had a few scenes where I could see that there is a really good actor in there but most of the time he is such a Melvin Milquetoast.  He looks like he puts in the minimal effort required to do that.

[sugarbaker design]

He was miscast on OLTL, as he is now on B&B, he's not leading man material, he's comic relief.

[BucFan]

Big cyberhug for you OhioSongbird.

I know how difficult it is :(

[TobinAlbers]

Scott is great in father-son/family scenes and I believe he'd be great as a rom com type boyfriend if they let Liam stay with a woman without being lured/distracted away by another woman in distress and so easily manipulated. I get that they're playing on the Liam just can't be the bad guy with women and has mommy/abandonment issues so all his waffling comes from a well meaning albeit a bit selfish place but I really wish they'd let him have a real backbone for once with all his women (Hope when she said maybe the loss of his child was a sign for them; Steffy beating him up saying he didn't fight for her when she was the one who ran and left him; Quinn constantly needling him about his being spoiled, when really? Wyatt is the poster boy for a mama's boy still holding apron strings).

 

My dream storyline would be Liam being confronted with Ivy/Hope/Steffy and pulling a Kelly from 90210 by choosing himself but not before telling each woman how he's wronged them and asking them WTH is wrong with them that they put up with his crap before walking away to bury himself in his VP Spencer work, swearing off love and self-imposing celibacy with his storyline primarily consisting of needling Wyatt for giggles.

 

Then after a year he can get involved in a benefits only relationship with someone and refuse to get emotionally involved and hijinks ensue.

Edited August 20, 2015 by TobinAlbers

[tricknasty]

Why is this show so boring?

[RuntheTable]

Then after a year he can get involved in a benefits only relationship with someone and refuse to get emotionally involved and hijinks ensue.

 

 

OOOOHHH! Could it be Quinn? OH, say it can! Pretty please!

[sugarbaker design]

his storyline primarily consisting of needling Wyatt for giggles.

 

I hope "needling" isn't a euphemism!  :)

[ByTor]

Wow, tricknasty, good work getting that picture of me watching B&B! :)

[SiouxB]

Cyberhugs to you OhioSongbird :(

[tessaray]

I'm still a little behind but since I don't think anyone has mentioned it, I had mixed feelings about Ivy's monologue about feeling so alone.  Taken by itself, it worked and I could feel for her a little but considering they just had her so desperate to stay in the US that she would go for a green card marriage with Liam - it just felt off at the same time.  There's nothing really keeping her here if she's unhappy.  Go home to Australia and recharge.  Oh - except now she has to crusade against Steffy for Aly even though she knows that Aly had snapped and was out to hurt Steffy  :-(

 

I have to give AB credit - in the moment she really sells it but I don't have short term memory issues.  I know I would enjoy the show so much more if I did.

[LittleIggy]

(((HUGS!))) OhioSongBird. I'm sorry for your loss.

Me too. I had to do the same with my almost 17 yo Italian Greyhound Claudia three years ago. I still miss her everyday.

[Collinwood]

Just stopping by to deliver a cyberhug to OhioSongbird. I am barely watching the show now, it's absolute gibberish.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Collinwood

[CountryGirl]

(((OhioSongbird)))

[apbr]

Yeah, she's approaching the complete Bratz look:

 

Wow!  That's really is a good likeness (except the drawing looks much younger). 

[Gudzilla]

(((OhioSongbird)))

+ 1000

[apbr]

More hugs to OhioSongbird.  It's hard to get over losing a member of your family.  My latest was about a year ago and I still tear up when talking about her or her predecessors.