Christine Brown Woolley: Nacho Sister Wife Anymore

[Scarlett45]

47 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

Maybe being in the same room with him then made her so uncomfortable she's not willing to repeat that experience.

I could see that- she gave it a try for Logan (everyone loves Logan), but didn’t want to do it again. 
 

Also- I think Gwen knows her mom will love her no matter what so there’s less need to “try”. 

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, ginger90 said:

October 17th is the viewing, and the 18th is the funeral.

I wonder if Janelle and Kody will attend. And Christine and Robyn. And Leon and Audrey.

[applewood]

Christine looks so much better and happier than in her first wedding pictures.

Wedding with the Ko-douche:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sandy W]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I wonder if Janelle and Kody will attend. And Christine and Robyn. And Leon and Audrey.

October 5th to October 17th seems like a very long time between his passing and viewing. 

Doubt Christine, Robyn or Kody would be there but very likely Leon and Audrey will attend.

[Scarlett45]

The poll to vote on Christine’s new thread title is open. 

[xwordfanatik]

I voted.  It was hard to pick one, there were so many good ones.

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, Sandy W said:

October 5th to October 17th seems like a very long time between his passing and viewing. 

Doubt Christine, Robyn or Kody would be there but very likely Leon and Audrey will attend.

Perhaps because of the wedding?

[Orcinus orca]

3 hours ago, Sandy W said:

October 5th to October 17th seems like a very long time between his passing and viewing.

I thought the same thing.  That would require multiple embalmings.

[Sandy W]

I could see that gap of time if it were a memorial service after the remains have been buried or cremated but that length of time seems extraordinary.

 

[Natalie68]

1 hour ago, Orcinus orca said:

I thought the same thing.  That would require multiple embalmings.

This will sound very crass and for that I apologize.  Could they keep a body refrigerated that long and not have to embalm multiple times?

[Scarlett45]

So I know this doesn’t apply to Meri’s family, but I notice among ADOS (American Descendents of Slavery) families we take FOREVER between death and burial- you have to let EVERYONE know, and let EVERYONE take time off from work. Social media helps but it’s something I joke about. In my 38yrs of life, two weekends after death is pretty standard, even if the person was elderly/ill and the death was expected. So those dates didn’t ping me at all!

(of course every family is different and I’m speaking only of my own cultural experience)

 

Family members may have had other events and plans they didn’t want to disrupt so others could make it. Yes @Natalie68 the funeral home keeps the body refrigerated until it’s time for the viewing etc. Multiple embalmings aren’t required. My great aunt’s funeral was 3 weeks after her death as it was important for others to attend the scheduled family reunion out of state (she would’ve wanted that), and my other great aunt (her baby sister), started planning everything when she got back. 
 

So while I don’t think Christine’s wedding impacted Meri’s brother’s funeral plans; this is a small community, and there may have been other family events (weddings, baptisms, people being out of town) that caused them to push it back. 

[xwordfanatik]

1 hour ago, Sandy W said:

I could see that gap of time if it were a memorial service after the remains have been buried or cremated but that length of time seems extraordinary.

 

That's what my adult nieces did when my sister passed.  She was buried and they had a memorial service 2 or so weeks later.  

[ginger90]

I don’t think Mormons do memorial services.

[Sandy W]

10 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

That's what my adult nieces did when my sister passed.  She was buried and they had a memorial service 2 or so weeks later.  

My family is aware that will be my chosen farewell too.

When I had major surgery last year I asked for and signed consent forms to donate my body to the hospital. At 85yrs old my organs would not be viable for transplant but because my condition is rare and it is a teaching hospital, they were very grateful for my decision.

[JenMcSnark]

9 hours ago, AZChristian said:

Maybe being in the same room with him then made her so uncomfortable she's not willing to repeat that experience.

Speaking from personal experience, when you have PTSD from abuse, what you can handle or how you feel can change from day to day. 

For me, I went to my brother's funeral where my abusive brother was and thought I could handle it.  I did well through 1.5 days until just before the actual service when I had a major panic attack and had to leave for my own mental health and to prevent me causing any scene.  Now some of my family won't talk to me because I missed the funeral even though I had become almost suicidal in my panic attack.  I thought leaving was the best thing for everyone but they see it as attention-seeking behavior.

Maybe Gwen told Christine she would try but had to see how she was feeling on the day.  I hope Christine can understand although surely she was disappointed.

ETA:  I'm sure Gwen wanted to be there just as I wanted to be at my brother's funeral as he was like a father to me. But sometimes what we want and what we can actually do are two different things. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by JenMcSnark
Added a final thought...

[Natalie68]

21 hours ago, ginger90 said:

I don’t think Mormons do memorial services.

When my grandfather died, Mormon, we had a viewing at the church in St. George, graveside service and then a family get together.  My grandfather was a garment wearing Mormon.

[ginger90]

3 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

When my grandfather died, Mormon, we had a viewing at the church in St. George, graveside service and then a family get together.  My grandfather was a garment wearing Mormon.

Yes, not a memorial service.

 

 

[JenMcSnark]

8 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Yes, not a memorial service.

 

 

Stupid question, but what's the difference between memorial service and funeral?  My brother's service was technically a memorial service since he wasn't buried, right?  He was Mormon although not active.  I was raised Mormon and have been to other memorial services although they are not as common as a burial/funeral. 

[GeeGolly]

5 hours ago, JenMcSnark said:

Stupid question, but what's the difference between memorial service and funeral?  My brother's service was technically a memorial service since he wasn't buried, right?  He was Mormon although not active.  I was raised Mormon and have been to other memorial services although they are not as common as a burial/funeral. 

My definition, which may be wrong is, a memorial service occurs at a later date from the funeral/burial. Or when memorializing someone who has died, but their body was never recovered.

[Kellyee]

I'm glad that Christine included Leon. I would have thought Meri would not be invited, based on comments Christine has made in the past. I hope Christine and Janelle at least texted Meri to say sorry about the death of her brother. Especially Janelle, who was previously married to the guy. 

Christine does look very nice in her dress. I hope it all works out, mostly for the sake of the kids. Especially Truely. 

And I agree that it is cruel to post details of anyone's suicide on the Internet in any form. 

[mythoughtis]

12 hours ago, JenMcSnark said:

Stupid question, but what's the difference between memorial service and funeral?  My brother's service was technically a memorial service since he wasn't buried, right?  He was Mormon although not active.  I was raised Mormon and have been to other memorial services although they are not as common as a burial/funeral. 

My thoughts are that a memorial service is for a situation where there will not be a public gathering at the cemetary.  The deceased  may have been cremated. The deceased may have perished in some accident and the remains not recovered. Or the family just doesn’t want anyone at the gravesite.  Sometimes  the deceased is buried privately prior to the memorial service. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by mythoughtis

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, Kellyee said:

I'm glad that Christine included Leon. I would have thought Meri would not be invited, based on comments Christine has made in the past. I hope Christine and Janelle at least texted Meri to say sorry about the death of her brother. Especially Janelle, who was previously married to the guy. 

Christine does look very nice in her dress. I hope it all works out, mostly for the sake of the kids. Especially Truely. 

And I agree that it is cruel to post details of anyone's suicide on the Internet in any form. 

I fully expected Christine to include Leon- she was their caregiver too, and Leon has close relationships with some of her kids. (I know Gwen and Leon are close) I have never heard that Leon had negative experiences with Christine as a caregiver/parental figure.

I cannot see Christine and Meri ever being friends, but I dont doubt Christine reached out to her via text and perhaps sent a card. They were sister wives for a long time, and the grief over the loss of a sibling is an understandable thing. 

I hope Truly likes David and gets along well with his kids. All of his are grown and out of the house I think, but perhaps she will make new friends and a bigger extended family through this marriage. 

I have to say I am LOVING the wedding ensembles- Truely's feels very much "her" but is on theme. I love it when everyone "goes" but doesnt "match". Such fun!

[altopower]

18 hours ago, JenMcSnark said:

Stupid question, but what's the difference between memorial service and funeral?  My brother's service was technically a memorial service since he wasn't buried, right?  He was Mormon although not active.  I was raised Mormon and have been to other memorial services although they are not as common as a burial/funeral. 

I'm a retired church secretary (non Mormon). Our understanding of the difference was that there were three different things: Funeral with a body present, Memorial service without a body present, and Graveside service with burial. 

[Rabbit Hutch]

2 hours ago, altopower said:

I'm a retired church secretary (non Mormon). Our understanding of the difference was that there were three different things: Funeral with a body present, Memorial service without a body present, and Graveside service with burial. 

If I may ask, what reason(s) would there be for a family pick a graveside service over a funeral?  Cost, perhaps?  Or just personal preference?

[Orcinus orca]

13 minutes ago, Rabbit Hutch said:

If I may ask, what reason(s) would there be for a family pick a graveside service over a funeral?  Cost, perhaps?  Or just personal preference?

Probably both.  A full funeral costs a bundle even on the cheap.

And it might be easier for some families to just have folks at the graveside - a quick little service which reduces the time spent with unloved ones?

[altopower]

27 minutes ago, Rabbit Hutch said:

If I may ask, what reason(s) would there be for a family pick a graveside service over a funeral?  Cost, perhaps?  Or just personal preference?

We saw it a lot when the spouse had already died and the family - and often the deceased - wanted something quieter. We also did a lot of those services during Covid. A funeral doesn't really cost very much as far as the church is concerned. It's the funeral home and cemetery costs that multiply like rabbits.

[mythoughtis]

A graveside service is often done when the deceased is elderly.  Especially if they were  homebodies who didn’t get out much or had been ill for a while.  They have often been predeceased by a portion of their family and friends.  It is often assumed that the number of attendees will be small as a result.  
Having paid for a funeral recently,I can attest that  it’s getting very expensive.  Much more than the number mentioned in certain’ life insurance for the elderly’ commercials. If there is a spouse still living, they need to keep as much of the remaining money as possible for their own expenses. Elder care is expensive too. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by mythoughtis

[RazzleberryPie]

Does Truley have a medical condition that makes her so much smaller than all of Christine’s other kids? 
The other ones are all really tall and medium to larger framed, and Truley seems so tiny. I feel like the other kids at 12, especially the girls, were already close to their adult height. 

[Elizzikra]

18 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Does Truley have a medical condition that makes her so much smaller than all of Christine’s other kids? 
The other ones are all really tall and medium to larger framed, and Truley seems so tiny. I feel like the other kids at 12, especially the girls, were already close to their adult height. 

I just assumed puberty hadn't fully hit yet and she will have a growth spurt at some point?

Also is Christine particularly tall? Where does the height come from - both Christine and Kody look to me to be average height.

[Roslyn]

3 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

I just assumed puberty hadn't fully hit yet and she will have a growth spurt at some point?

Also is Christine particularly tall? Where does the height come from - both Christine and Kody look to me to be average height.

 

On 10/10/2023 at 3:48 PM, Elodia said:

I found a picture on reddit. Almost all the OG kids were there, only Gwen is missing (on the pic, maybe she was there)

Going by the recent wedding photo, and it seems like most of the girls are not in high heels, Truely comes up to Christine's nose. She is 13 and has more growing to do. My husband hit his growth spurt at 12 and grew 12-inches in 12 months, he has paid for it with life long back issues.

I think Ysabel is the tallest daughter, and we know that Paedon is 6'6". It has been mentioned that Christine's father was tall, so she does have a height gene. Her daughters also all have her gorgeous hair gene as well.

[RazzleberryPie]

Honestly I was specifically wondering if Truleys kidney injuries affected her growth in any way. She may just be smaller than her siblings or too more after Kody. 

[Art Of Noiz]

On 10/7/2023 at 8:51 PM, xwordfanatik said:

I hope they'll be very happy together.

Am I petty and bitchy, that I hope Kootie is pissed and fuming?  Yeah, I suppose so, but he (Kootie) deserves it.  I'd be very, very shocked, if he and Sobbyn were invited, let alone attended.

If you are petty and bitchy, so am I!!! I hope he gets so angry, he busts a road. 

 

Can we start a p&b club? 😃 

18 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

A graveside service is often done when the deceased is elderly.  Especially if they were  homebodies who didn’t get out much or had been ill for a while.  They have often been predeceased by a portion of their family and friends.  It is often assumed that the number of attendees will be small as a result.  
Having paid for a funeral recently,I can attest that  it’s getting very expensive.  Much more than the number mentioned in certain’ life insurance for the elderly’ commercials. If there is a spouse still living, they need to keep as much of the remaining money as possible for their own expenses. Elder care is expensive too. 

In May of this years, my mom pre paid for cremation. Cremation, basic urn, no service=$2015.00. I was a little shocked. 

[CalicoKitty]

On 10/13/2023 at 12:53 PM, Rabbit Hutch said:

If I may ask, what reason(s) would there be for a family pick a graveside service over a funeral?  Cost, perhaps?  Or just personal preference?

We had a family graveside burial for my father, and then a formal memorial service at the church later the same day.  At a funeral, the body, or ashes, are present at the service.  The remains have already been buried before a memorial service.  Both of my parents did not a regular funeral service.  A memorial service has all the same elements as a funeral, but the body is not there.  Sometimes a memorial service is personal preference, sometimes it is a necessity.  We had a family grave side service for my mother, which was her request.

[CalicoKitty]

Actually, my dad's service was about a week and a half  after he died.  That was because he died the day before Thanksgiving, and the pastor was out of town visiting his family.  Then we had to wait a few more days because the city was setting up road blocks for the Christmas parade, and the main road to the church was blocked.  We had to wait until the parade was over and the blockades were down.  My dad was a very altruistic but humble person, and we were sure he did want a parade for his funeral!

[Scarlett45]

Please take additional funeral discussions to the Small Talk thread. 

The posters have spoken. Christine Brown Woolley: Nacho Sister Wife Anymore won by a landslide!
 

Thank you to everyone who voted. 

[LotusFlower]

On 10/11/2023 at 7:06 PM, JenMcSnark said:

Speaking from personal experience, when you have PTSD from abuse, what you can handle or how you feel can change from day to day. 

For me, I went to my brother's funeral where my abusive brother was and thought I could handle it.  I did well through 1.5 days until just before the actual service when I had a major panic attack and had to leave for my own mental health and to prevent me causing any scene.  Now some of my family won't talk to me because I missed the funeral even though I had become almost suicidal in my panic attack.  I thought leaving was the best thing for everyone but they see it as attention-seeking behavior.

Maybe Gwen told Christine she would try but had to see how she was feeling on the day.  I hope Christine can understand although surely she was disappointed.

ETA:  I'm sure Gwen wanted to be there just as I wanted to be at my brother's funeral as he was like a father to me. But sometimes what we want and what we can actually do are two different things. 

Can someone fill me in on what happened between Gwen and Paedon?  I think Christine mentioned they have “different politics” on last week’s episode, but did something specific happen?  TIA. 

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, LotusFlower said:

Can someone fill me in on what happened between Gwen and Paedon?  I think Christine mentioned they have “different politics” on last week’s episode, but did something specific happen?  TIA. 

Last weeks episode was referencing Gwen and Garrison (bio son of Janelle) they get along and were considering living together but decided against it. They aren’t super tight but are friendly. 
 

Gwen and Paedon (Christine’s only son -he’s very tall if you are looking for him in the wedding photos) are estranged. Paedon has admitted to physically assaulting Gwen when they were teens, Gwen states that Paedon was physically abusive to her growing up and she does not want to associate or socialize with him. Paedon has opinions that are homophobic and transphobic, Gwen is bisexual and married to a woman. The last time they were in the same location was Logan’s wedding (where they did not interact but came to support Logan).
 

It’s understood within the family if one shows up the other will not be there, which is why for Christmas 2021 Gwen chose to go to a friend’s house, Paedon came to the rental house Christine/Janelle shared. We go a little more in depth discussing it in the Kids thread. Obviously Paedon wasn’t invited to her wedding. Maddie and Savanah missed but were invited (they were in NC at the time). 

Christine seems to be doing the best job a mother can loving both of her kids and respecting their boundaries- they don’t want to be around each other (for what looks like a good reason). 

[LotusFlower]

Oh man, I had no idea!  Thanks, @Scarlett45 for all that tea.  

[Cherry Styles]

On 10/11/2023 at 7:06 PM, JenMcSnark said:

Speaking from personal experience, when you have PTSD from abuse, what you can handle or how you feel can change from day to day. 

For me, I went to my brother's funeral where my abusive brother was and thought I could handle it.  I did well through 1.5 days until just before the actual service when I had a major panic attack and had to leave for my own mental health and to prevent me causing any scene.  Now some of my family won't talk to me because I missed the funeral even though I had become almost suicidal in my panic attack.  I thought leaving was the best thing for everyone but they see it as attention-seeking behavior.

Maybe Gwen told Christine she would try but had to see how she was feeling on the day.  I hope Christine can understand although surely she was disappointed.

ETA:  I'm sure Gwen wanted to be there just as I wanted to be at my brother's funeral as he was like a father to me. But sometimes what we want and what we can actually do are two different things. 

Didn't Paedon slap Gwen One time? When they were kids? Is she really that fragile? If he was going around hitting people as an adult, yeah, not good. But as kids, well, siblings do that.  

[BAForever]

4 minutes ago, Cherry Styles said:

Didn't Paedon slap Gwen One time? When they were kids? Is she really that fragile? If he was going around hitting people as an adult, yeah, not good. But as kids, well, siblings do that.  

This is a tough one. Paeden "seems" to get along with the other siblings, but I cannot discount Gwen's feelings about their relationship. They are smart not to engage, maybe someday they will. Family relationships can be very complicated. 

 

[General Days]

1 hour ago, Cherry Styles said:

Didn't Paedon slap Gwen One time? When they were kids? Is she really that fragile? If he was going around hitting people as an adult, yeah, not good. But as kids, well, siblings do that.  

Short answer: I feel like we don't know.

Paedon has said Paedon slapped Gwendlyn once. I don't think Gwendlyn has gotten into that level of detail, so I don't necessarily think/believe Paedon only ever hit Gwen once. (If I'm wrong about that -- if Gwen said otherwise, please link me to it.)

Gwen has said that she's on meds, has trouble sleeping, and isn't ready to talk about it, yet.

She has also said he is abusive, racist, homophobic, hateful, and basically fill in every other bad word here. And while that could be histrionics, in my opinion, based on Paedon's unhinged (to me) interview on that Jon Whoever's podcast -- well, I don't think Paedon is stable, and I don't think he is (sorry) safe.

On the one hand, if someone proved to me that Gwen or any child of the Kody + Christine union was a drama queen, well, you wouldn't have to knock me over with a feather.

On the other hand, Gwen tried to cover (react to, recap, whatever she calls her Patreon videos) the Sister Wives episode this season, in which they first covered the Christmas Gift Exchange group text from Hell. When Paedon was on the screen with Christine, blathering on about making that frigging Mock Tapioca pudding, Gwendlyn had a visible physical reaction to watching him, and she ended up fast forwarding his scenes.

I think something worse (or more than one slap -- I don't mean that it has to be darker, just more) happened between Gwen and Paedon, but I don't honestly know. I just don't think a kid from that big of a family would hold onto a grudge forever about a childhood sibling slap. Say whatever you want about the OG13, but they weren't pampered.

 

[Elizzikra]

3 hours ago, Cherry Styles said:

Didn't Paedon slap Gwen One time? When they were kids? Is she really that fragile? If he was going around hitting people as an adult, yeah, not good. But as kids, well, siblings do that.  

Whatever it was, it was sufficient enough that Paedon and Gwen were not allowed to be left together without adult supervision going forward. I think it was more than just siblings bickering and an occasional slap thrown in.

[ginger90]

8 hours ago, General Days said:

Gwen has said that she's on meds, has trouble sleeping, and isn't ready to talk about it, yet.

She’s also in therapy.

[GeorgiaRai]

12 hours ago, General Days said:

Short answer: I feel like we don't know.

 

I completely agree with this part.

[altopower]

1 hour ago, GeorgiaRai said:

14 hours ago, General Days said:

Short answer: I feel like we don't know.

I completely agree with this part.

I also agree. But I also think we don't need to know. Gwen is dealing with it in appropriate ways. I hope she's getting good practical therapy (no Nancy from LV) that will help her in ways we don't need to see. I just want her to be whole and happy. 

That therapy will take years.

Edited October 17, 2023 by altopower
I forgot to actually type a comment before I hit the submit button. Oops.

[Scarlett45]

12 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

Whatever it was, it was sufficient enough that Paedon and Gwen were not allowed to be left together without adult supervision going forward. I think it was more than just siblings bickering and an occasional slap thrown in.

I agree. 

 

18 minutes ago, altopower said:

I also agree. But I also think we don't need to know. Gwen is dealing with it in appropriate ways. I hope she's getting good practical therapy (no Nancy from LV) that will help her in ways we don't need to see. I just want her to be whole and happy. 

That therapy will take years.

I can agree with that too. 
 

I can fully believe that Gwen was a target of Paedon’s anger and rage growing up (being the sibling right under him in age), and she doesn’t find him a pleasant person to engage with. She’s never said that OTHER family member’s shouldn’t have a relationship with him.

[Roslyn]

18 hours ago, Cherry Styles said:

Didn't Paedon slap Gwen One time? When they were kids? Is she really that fragile? If he was going around hitting people as an adult, yeah, not good. But as kids, well, siblings do that.  

The approximate time of the hit/slap/smack...what ever it actually was, Gwen was 12/13 and Paedon was 15/16. He was close to his full height which is 6'6" and he is a big guy, easily over 200 pounds.

Gwen doesn't go into details but she made an off hand comment that "it was every day, it was relentless".

Everyone is focusing on the (possibly) one time that his hand made contact with her body. However, her reactions to him to point to more. Paedon comes off to me as a shit stirrer, a winder-upper. The kind of kid/teen that just pokes and pokes and pokes until they get a reaction of some kind. Gwen has really big reactions, she goes from calm to hyper pretty quick so she probably gave him the reactions that he was seeking...making him feel like a big boy by having her lose control of herself. He was seen on camera way back in the honeymoon episode in S1 standing in an aggressive pose over Aurora because she sat in his chair near the fire when he stood up and his finger pointed inches from her nose. Sure...kid stuff, but Logan had zero reaction and told him to just sit in another chair...so it wasn't anything new...standard kid stuff that Daddy Logan dealt with all the time. He was the kid squealing in audio while Kody hit/poked him in the eye in retaliation for Paedon poking Brianna in the eye that led to Meri gathering them all up to give them a "what-for" that the cameras caught.

Christine laughed it off...and that reaction may be why Robyn kept her kids from being watched by Christine, because the bullying wasn't being addressed to her liking. Christine has said that Paedon is her dear, sweet and darling boy...so she may not come down on him as she should have just because he was her only son. Gwen has kinda inferred favoritism to Paedon from Christine. They brought up on camera that Paedon bullied Dayton in the beginning before he accepted him and then they became friends.

I have read over and over about how "its just sibling stuff jeez". Some people grow up and physically fight with their siblings and think it is just how it is and they came out fine as adults...that doesn't mean it is that way in other families at all. Christine knew it was an issue to the point where Paedon and Gwen could not be in the house together if she wasn't there. Gwen has a strong reaction with just hearing his voice and does not want to talk about it to complete strangers who pay her money to "spill the tea". To her it was something else. Something deeply traumatic.

[Kellyee]

Quote

Gwen doesn't go into details but she made an off hand comment that "it was every day, it was relentless".

So Gwen was bullied by Paedon, who it appear may have had serious issues and been out of control. Paedon has also admitted on social media that he was rude to Robyn and her kids early on, and he implies that it wasn't really warranted, at least with the kids, who were mostly younger than him.

And now we hear in the last episode that Mykelti apparently had a difficult time with her older siblings as well, which is what led her to become close with Robyn. 

So we know that Kody can't be bothered to parent, but where was Christine in all this? Was it just too many kids for her to take care, so that she didn't have time to pay enough attention or intervene? And they claim that Meri is too harsh, and disciplines too much, but now we are hearing that perhaps a bit more discipline to keep the siblings from bullying each other would have been a good thing. I remember one episode a long time ago where Meri did intervene between some of the siblings when they were on an outing, but I forget the specifics.

 

 

 

 

 

[Scarlett45]

33 minutes ago, Kellyee said:

So we know that Kody can't be bothered to parent, but where was Christine in all this? Was it just too many kids for her to take care, so that she didn't have time to pay enough attention or intervene? And they claim that Meri is too harsh, and disciplines too much, but now we are hearing that perhaps a bit more discipline to keep the siblings from bullying each other would have been a good thing. I remember one episode a long time ago where Meri did intervene between some of the siblings when they were on an outing, but I forget the specifics.

Of course I was not there, but based on what we have seen of the family Christine was an active and attentive caregiver- but no parent is perfect with eyes in the back of their head. “Mommy Guilt” is a real thing, and knowing what I know of the world, I can fully believe that Paedon was an asshole and a bully, and picked on kids smaller than him who had temperaments that wouldn’t “fight back”. I agree with you @Roslyn-His repeated behavior terrified Gwen. And yeah, a TEENAGE cognitively typical* boy putting his hands on his little sister in violence- fuck no way is that ever okay. It’s not as if he didn’t know it was wrong. Christine may have had a blind spot to Paedon and not realized their relationship was so bad until it was too late. Gwen may have not said anything to her Mom for a variety of reasons. Do I think this means Christine failed as a mother- of course not, but it was a problem. 
 

In a family that large with so many different personalities, there are going to be strife and conflicts, groups of kids being friends because they are similar in temperament but not friends with other siblings they have nothing in common with. However there is a certain level of respect and basic human decency everyone should’ve been held to, and I think Paedon wasn’t held to it and was the type to be an ass to the younger kids. 
 

*I say this because there are certain behavioral issues that may accompany specific disabilities or conditions, and siblings are impacted by that. Having lived that position I have more grace (for parents and siblings) in those type of situations. This wasn’t that situation. 

[Angeltoes]

I remember a couple of the boys got into a physical argument when they were teenagers and out in public with the family.  Janelle had to jump in and put a stop to it.  Was Paedon involved in that?