S06.E05: Now

[Bad Example]

Okay, I just finished watching the episode and found I have a couple things in common with Jessie.   Firstly, every time the Unfair Wolves attack my neighborhood I always go home after the killing is done and bake cookies for the neighborhood kids.  It serves a duel purpose.  It's a great way to bond after the traumatic experience and allows me to get an accurate head count at the same time.  Secondly, I, too, would like to make out with Rick although I would prefer it to be in the bedroom and not in an open garage for all to see.

 

I'm crossing my fingers that the first half of the season is not going to be a day in the life of the ASZ as seen through the eyes of CDB with the finale giving closure to Glen's fate.

 

How did Maggie erase paint from that wall with her sleeve?

 

A.  I would also insist Rick take a shower first.  I don't think that makes me prissy.

B.  They had some kind of liquid they were putting on the letters to help wipe them.  

 

Wait, back up the RV. Carl is supposed to be 10? I thought that he was 13 or 14. (I like his hair-small voice). 

I'm not sure about 10, but in the time from the beginning of the show until now he should be younger than he seems to be.  However, I think we're all just doing the magical hand wave that Carl ages with Chandler Riggs in real time, instead of in "show" time.  

 

[Mars7]

The Walking Dead has been approved for Season 7.

 

Need the presser.  Haven't seen one yet.  This is the time when the pressers come out for next year. 

[catrox14]

 

Need the presser.  Haven't seen one yet.  This is the time when the pressers come out for next year.

 

http://www.eonline.com/news/711792/the-walking-dead-renewed-for-season-7-because-no-duh

[ghoulina]

Hey, I'd hit that - Jessie, that is. Not Beth. Actual age notwithstanding, doing Beth would be too much like doing the babysitter, and that would just be too T. S. Garp for words.

 

 

I think I love you for that.

[Boilergal]

I'm hoping Drunk Spencer took a header off the guard tower and that is his blood squishing through the wall -

 

Ummm Deanna - THE HEAD!!! AIM FOR THE HEAD!!!!!

 

I get Denise - she opted to go to Psychiatry because she was self aware enough to know she could not handle the stress of being a doctor - so while she has the book smarts to do the job, she doesn't have the nerves to handle it, especially in the ZA where according to Morgan , every life is precious....so, ya know,  no pressure about keeping these folks alive.   She was focused on antibiotics that aren't available...it's hard to break that focus sometimes.

[Nashville]

A few questions:

1. Wouldn't a "massing walker fire" burn down the WOODEN support beams outside the ASZ walls thus jepardizing the structural integrity of the only thing that is preventing the ASZ from being overrun?

2. Wouldn't a "massing walker fire" also presumably rage out of control at some point and possibly threaten to burn down ASZ?

3. Wouldn't a "massing walker fire" create plums of heavy smoke which not only would attract more walkers, but serve as a welcome sign for more psychos like the Wolves?

Details, shmetails. Fire is FUN!!! :D Although to be perfectly honest:

• IIRC the exterior supports are metal pipe, not wood, so they wouldn't burn.
• What would burn, however, is any dead grass going under the wall - so there's that.

I really liked Aaron this episode. To me it wasn't so much guilt that was pushing him to help Maggie, but also him putting himself in her shoes.

Can't totally discount the guilt motivation, though; in Aaron's mind - and with a certain degree of justification- Glenn's predicament is due entirely to his volunteering to divert walkers drawn to Alexandria by the truck horn, which was a part of the Wolf attack, which Aaron is personally convinced was a direct result of the Wolves finding his backpack.

I saw the Doctor Tara kiss as mostly a thank you for keeping her from quitting. OK if it leads to lesbian true love.

Nothing says "thank you" quite like tongue.

ETA: fixed formatting

Edited November 9, 2015 by Nashville

[GaT]

Ugh, it's so frustrating seeing the cute blonde girls like Beth and Jessie just keep getting new boyfriends like ten minutes after the old boyfriend/husband dies. 

This actually makes sense to me. The old ways of meeting people are gone, there's no more meeting someone at school or work or Starbucks. If you meet a new group of people, there is a really good chance they want to kill you & steal your stuff, not hook up. With the lack of people, you can't wait for Mr Right to come along, you have to grab what you can. I've actually been thinking about Carl, Mikey, & Enid. They're the only teens, what's going to happen if they stay in Alexandria & no other people their age show up? Is it going to be some kind of eternal triangle? I would think that there would be a lot more casual hook ups, a lot more unplanned babies, & that the whole marriage & committed relationship thing changes with people committing to someone else for safety, & not love.

[peach]

ooks like most on this thread are in agreement that this was another boring episode.  I don't know what's up with the producers, but I think this show is nearing the end for 2016.   Just think, "Breaking Bad" lasted 5 seasons and so 6 seasons for TWD may be it.  Looks like the big Madison Square Garden premiere for the TWD was done for two reasons: Season 6 and to be the last season.  I noticed all the past main cast members were at the premiere -- may be for a memorable send off.       

 

Incredibly, the stock price of AMC literally rises and falls based on the number of viewers of this show.  It's not going anywhere.

[Miral9]

 The entire episode is dependent on Rick being massively out of character.  He's not the same guy here who tore out a man's jugular or made himself a shiv to try to fight his way out of Terminus, the guy who's always planning and spent most of the back half of last season planning against these same people. Instead he now seems not particularly concerned about his kids who have been his raison d'etre for five seasons while being up for leisurely strolls about the place and trying to get some in an open garage.

You hit the nail. I can fanwank a lot -endless bullets, gasoline that still works, pig flu that miraculously only kills Red Shirts - I can and have been willingly obtuse to enjoy this program. But that's only because I bought into the characters. You start with the character assassination? Then what's left?

[peach]

And let's add Carol's character.  Pookie is out there in the night, fighting against the odds to make it home...and she gives her watch duty to fucking Spencer.

 

ETA:  This could be made acceptable if this is because she and Carl have already gone over or under the wall to go rescue everyone and bring them back.

Edited November 9, 2015 by peach

[Giselle]

  I actually liked Deanna's bit with her FutureWorld map, because I thought it a very human response. Deanna has none of the knowledge or experience necessary to deal with the zombie horde which chased Rick to ASZ's very front door; when she saw them piling up and reaching for her through the just-closed gate, Deanna's reaction was identical to just about every other ASZhat - she was overwhelmed, her little mental circuit breakers went all trippy-click, and she instinctively sought a security bubble which would restore her some sense of normalcy. Deanna was stumbling around in a bewildered cloud until her son's heroic speech at the pantry raid reminded her; she's useless right now when it comes to actual action - but she's a good at planning, so she should go, you know, PLAN something. Deanna immerses herself in drawing up her plan for the future - not because the plan is actually necessary - especially at this particular moment - but because the act of drawing up as plan restores her internally to a sense of normalcy where she's guiding her community, same as she did before that nasty bother outside the wall showed up. And it worked for her - at least, until her soused sonny boy, who had temporarily restored in her the notion of a future, re-shattered her illusion as thoroughly as the glass he dropped by revealing he saw his St. Crispin's Day speech at the pantry as only so much flowery bullshit to stop the run on the food bank.

  Depends on how many of the wrinkles are hers vs. how many were added by Makeup - but it's worth remembering Tovah hit her twenties at a time when tan was "in" as the look of health and beauty, and George Hamilton was worshipped as a tanning god. Many of the 70s-era beauties now have skin which resembles an old wallet - hence the meteoric rise in the popularity of face lifts.

personally suspicioning this is a setup for Tara to stay in the ASZ if/when CDB decides it's time to hit the road again.

 

I just hope Tovah Feldshuh doesn't get a face lift.  She looks normal and natural and not like most 60 year old actresses who are pulled, tucked, frozen and filled till they all look like the same inbred pathetic 60 year old freak trying to look like they are 20.

[peach]

 

I get Denise - she opted to go to Psychiatry because she was self aware enough to know she could not handle the stress of being a doctor - so while she has the book smarts to do the job, she doesn't have the nerves to handle it, especially in the ZA where according to Morgan , every life is precious....so, ya know,  no pressure about keeping these folks alive.   She was focused on antibiotics that aren't available...it's hard to break that focus sometimes.

 

Then she should die. 

[Ohwell]

Right. Don't trust that kid for a minute. When he went up on the wall to talk to Rick, I was convinced he was going to try and push him over. I still think he's up to something shady.

 

I thought Rick was fully aware that Ron might be thinking of pushing him off the roof, and Rick was prepared to throw his skinny ass off if necessary.

[FierceCritter]

Another thought about a Rick/Michonne pairing. Besides both being badass zombie fighters and survivors, they have nothing in common.

Remember in the season 4 flashback/dream sequence, Michonne is discussing art with her baby daddy and friend. She scoffs at how "pedestrian" the art was. She's dressed really classy. The music in the background is smooth piano jazz. Her home is tasteful and upscale.

Michonne was a thoughtful, insightful intellectual.

Rick is/was a downhome, rural county deputy. Smart in his own way. Knowledgeable, but of very different things.

Their circumstances may have thrown them together and they have bonded, both fighting the ZA fight with their own skill sets, which are considerable, if not completely similar. But if they'd have met pre-ZA, their circles probably never would have intersected. They'd have had little in common.

[peach]

B.  They had some kind of liquid they were putting on the letters to help wipe them.  

 

I'm not sure about 10, but in the time from the beginning of the show until now he should be younger than he seems to be.  However, I think we're all just doing the magical hand wave that Carl ages with Chandler Riggs in real time, instead of in "show" time.  

 

The liquid was bottled water.  Because only the brain trust at ASZ would paint a memorial wall in water based paint.

 

I agree with you on Carl.  What age is he?  Teen age.  lol

[GreyBunny]

The blood smear that we saw on the wall at the end of the episode?  I'm guessing Morgan's pet wolf got loose and killed some Alexandrite we don't care about.

Edited November 9, 2015 by GreyBunny

[catrox14]

Another thought about a Rick/Michonne pairing. Besides both being badass zombie fighters and survivors, they have nothing in common.

Remember in the season 4 flashback/dream sequence, Michonne is discussing art with her baby daddy and friend. She scoffs at how "pedestrian" the art was. She's dressed really classy. The music in the background is smooth piano jazz. Her home is tasteful and upscale.

Michonne was a thoughtful, insightful intellectual.

Rick is/was a downhome, rural county deputy. Smart in his own way. Knowledgeable, but of very different things.

Their circumstances may have thrown them together and they have bonded, both fighting the ZA fight with their own skill sets, which are considerable, if not completely similar. But if they'd have met pre-ZA, their circles probably never would have intersected. They'd have had little in common.

 

This isn't OKCupid for the ZA and they aren't dating. But the circumstances are what they are now, and they have both changed as we've seen.  They have become arguably best friends now. Michonne can still appreciate art and maybe teach Rick a thing or two about art.  Isn't there a school of thought that sometimes the best relationships are built out of friendship?  That's why I find Rick and Michonne so compelling. Because they offer each other something different.  YMMV

[peach]

As for Rick and Jessie, I think it was mighty considerate of them to wait until Pete was dead.  That's consideration enough when life is this precarious.  I would have preferred MORE passion, and then maybe it would be more believable.  My God, they both barely survived the day. 

 

Rick should have stormed up to her and said, "I thought I was going to die today.  I know I want you, and you want me, too."

Jessie:  "I almost died today, too.  I had to kill another human being for the first time with my bare hands."
Rick:  "All we have is now."

They tear each other's clothes off.

 

Instead, he wanders in her garage and is all Wassup?  Oh, not much.  Should we kiss?  Okay, I guess.

Peach, if you randomly sit down on a porch, I may randomly sit down and kiss you. 

 

I may randomly accept.  lol  But I like Carl's hair.  So you'll have to live with that.

[Maggio5]

Details, shmetails. Fire is FUN!!! :D Although to be perfectly honest:

• IIRC the exterior supports are metal pipe, not wood, so they wouldn't burn.
• What would burn, however, is any dead grass going under the wall - so there's that.

Can't totally discount the guilt motivation, though; in Aaron's mind - and with a certain degree of justification- Glenn's predicament is due entirely to his volunteering to divert walkers drawn to Alexandria by the truck horn, which was a part of the Wolf attack, which Aaron is personally convinced was a direct result of the Wolves finding his backpack.

Nothing says "thank you" quite like tongue.

ETA: fixed formatting

 

Delurking to add that these are unprotected metal panels on unprotected steel supports. In a hot fire they'd melt in under an hour, so dry grass issues aside the walls would still melt allowing the walkers in. They really should've done something at the quarry where it could've been more naturally contained - assuming they could've built up the holes in the surrounding area first. Going back into my nerdy insurance inspector hole now (hopefully no sewer zombies!)!

Edited November 9, 2015 by Maggio5

[truelovekiss]

Why would you want to have Michonne and Carol in relationships when they have done such a poor job at keeping Glenn/Maggie interesting? Maggie barely got ANYTHING interesting to do the last couple of seasons, even though her entire family died. Everything has been about Glenn. I'd be really annoyed if they put Carol and Michonne in relationships that start to define them as characters. Right now, they at least have agency.

Ugh, you're so right.  TWD sucks at romance, I take it back.  Keep Michonne and Carol single and awesome!

[peach]

Michonne was a thoughtful, insightful intellectual.

 

That's what I thought of when Denise was whining about her book.  You know who would probably like to just go relax and read a book?  Michonne.  But she doesn't get to because she's too busy protecting your ass!  Rick tried to read a book once, and then he had to break a Claimer's neck and climb out a window and run away.  So, no, Denise, you don't get to read a book.  But please keep telling Tara how hard your life is. 

(I really promise to TRY and stop beating the Denise horse after this.)

If I really think about it, it kind of tickles me to imagine Rick & Michonne's small talk.  "Dude, remember that time you bit that guy's throat out?"  "Right?  How about when you totally stuck your sword right through the Governor's head?"

[SimoneS]

What I care about:  What will Michonne tell Maggie, and how will she react???  How will Rick react to the compound being overrun by psychotic murderers???  How will remaining CDB react to Glenn, Daryl, Sasha and Abraham going missing???  After a 90 minute episode devoted to Morgan's life, what will he do with an injured wolf now that the town is in jeopardy (which he apparently never told them after Rick sent him back).

 

What Show cares about: 

How will Deanna react?

How will Spencer react?

How will Deanna react to Spencer's reaction? 

 

Maggie's upset.  She's on a mission.  What do Michonne, Rick, Rosita, and Carol think?  Who knows.  She's with Aaron.  (This is forgivable because Aaron is more CBD than ASZ, and he actually wants to DO something)

 

Oh, no, Rosita's crying?  She  must be reacting to Abe being missing, and...let's talk about how Spencer feels.  Rosita validates Spencer.  (Also, Carol let an incompetent, drunken coward take her watch duty)

 

Hey, Carl gets a scene!  It's about Ron.  Bye, Carl.  Rick tries to bond with Ron and believes Carl is in the house.

 

Hey, it's Tara.  Glenn is her first friend and closest connection to CDB, and she's the "most important person in the world" to Maggie, but let's check on Denise.  Poor Denise!  "I'm stuck with this injured guy who's been risking his life to keep me fed and supplied during the ZA, who got wounded defending my home from a horde of walkers.  Glenn probably died trying to get him back to safety, and now they expect me to take care of him just because I'm a doctor.  Poor meeeee!  I just want to read a book."  Tara comforts Denise while Maggie slogs through a zombie infested sewer below.

 

This show has turned into The Young & The Restless, where they just use legacy characters to prop up new, annoying characters no one cares about.

 

I have to agree. I was looking forward to Rick's reaction to Glenn being missing, but we got nothing. I get that Gimple thinks that he is a clever storyteller, but ignoring what your viewers care about in favor of "art" is not smart. 

[morgankobi]

As for Rick and Jessie, I think it was mighty considerate of them to wait until Pete was dead.  That's consideration enough when life is this precarious.  I would have preferred MORE passion, and then maybe it would be more believable.  My God, they both barely survived the day. 

 

Rick should have stormed up to her and said, "I thought I was going to die today.  I know I want you, and you want me, too."

Jessie:  "I almost died today, too.  I had to kill another human being for the first time with my bare hands."

Rick:  "All we have is now."

They tear each other's clothes off.

 

Instead, he wanders in her garage and is all Wassup?  Oh, not much.  Should we kiss?  Okay, I guess.

 

And you incorporated the episode title?!? Damn, peach, you're on fire this week! (Just don't grab any support beams...)

Edited November 9, 2015 by morgankobi

[peach]

Thanks.  I appreciate everyone's comments on that post. My alarm went off this morning, and I just laid in there in the dark thinking about how mad this show made me.  I probably need some kind of professional help, but for now, this is it.

As for the gripping questions the show answered:
How will Deanna react?  She'll turn into Madison Stone Faced Clark.
How will Spencer react?  A grown ass man will scream that it's all his Moooommmyyyy's fault!!!!  But that's okay, because like Rosita said, you did kill that one guy, back before you stole all the food.

[riverheightsnancy]

I get Denise - she opted to go to Psychiatry because she was self aware enough to know she could not handle the stress of being a doctor - so while she has the book smarts to do the job, she doesn't have the nerves to handle it, especially in the ZA where according to Morgan , every life is precious....so, ya know,  no pressure about keeping these folks alive.   She was focused on antibiotics that aren't available...it's hard to break that focus sometimes.

I disagree. A psychiatrist IS a medical doctor and she has the same training and rotations as a resident intern like all MDs do. Once they specialize, that is where you start to work specifically in your area, but some choose their speciality after their rotations. I had to deal with some of the most inept residents in respect to psychological processes. They frankly did not care about psychiatric and could wait to leave the unit. They would argue with us about proper detox protocol when we had a patient in obvious distress or DTs. It was always a fight and they knew shit about addictions. It always seemed like they wanted to punish the patients with addictions.  

 

Psychiatrists also can write scripts, so they will have a much higher level of understanding of those processes and drug interactions because they receive training in those areas. I cannot imagine anyone goes through all that to be an MD and not retain some of it, or at least an ability to know how or what to research to find out.  When they work their ED rotation, they will be dealing with emergencies. The nurses do not necessarily stitch up gunshot wounds or deep cuts. The residents do. If they had made her character a psychologist, then sure, two different worlds, both docs (MD vs. PHD or PsyD). Different training. If they had made her a nurse or an EMT, I could better accept that her training was not enough and/or she opted not to go to med school because she could not handle it. I have a friend who just got through med school a few years ago and is in rotation for neurosurgeon, To get through med school the person has received a ton of training. It is rigorous. Denise should be able to handle some aspects of helping people and if she thinks they are too far gone, she should say so and work to make their passing as comfortable as possible. I hate how they are making her so weak and neurotic. She is an MD and a psychiatrist, come on!  I have worked with psych patients in emergent situations. I know that my training would kick right back in if i were in a similar situation. 

[morgankobi]

As for the gripping questions the show answered:

How will Deanna react?  She'll turn into Madison Stone Faced Clark.

How will Spencer react?  A grown ass man will scream that it's all his Moooommmyyyy's fault!!!!  But that's okay, because like Rosita said, you did kill that one guy, back before you stole all the food.

Yep, Spencer killed that one guy in the truck. He's now tied with Judith for number of kills.

 

I'm tempted to add him to my FPP mantra.

Edited November 9, 2015 by morgankobi

[peach]

To get through med school the person has received a ton of training. It is rigorous. Denise should be able to handle some aspects of helping people and if she thinks they are too far gone, she should say so and work to make their passing as comfortable as possible. I hate how they are making her so weak and neurotic.

 

You know what would fix that?  Death.

 

Yep, Spencer killed that one guy in the truck. He's now tied with Judith for number of kills.

 

Ahahahaha.  Mocking this show is so relaxing.

[ParadoxLost]

I have to agree. I was looking forward to Rick's reaction to Glenn being missing, but we got nothing. I get that Gimple thinks that he is a clever storyteller, but ignoring what your viewers care about in favor of "art" is not smart. 

 

But we did get a reaction.  As far as Rick is concerned,  Darryl, Glenn, Sasha, and Abraham are in the same situation.  They haven't come back and he's watching for them.  The longer they are gone, the more worried he'll get that they aren't coming back.  I suspect the reaction will come about Glenn when everyone but Glenn comes back.  As long as that reaction is shown, I'll forgive the "art".

 

In terms of Rick in this episode, I was most annoyed that they put Rick in a precarious situation for a cliffhanger and then he magically escapes and outruns a zombie horde.  That smacks of viewer manipulation.  I wonder if they filmed it and then decided the escape was too improbable and cut it out.

 

Also the number of scenes with one Alexanduan telling another Alexandrian that if they'd just listened to a member of CDB this wouldn't have happen and CBD is awesome sauce was hysterical to me.

[that one guy]

So this wasn't my favorite episode. I thought Maggie's scenes were great, and it's almost worth drawing out resolution of Glenn's fate so that we can go through exactly what Maggie's going through, with her. Almost. I think this "aftermath" episode suffers just for being weeks after the attack - I get the feeling this season will be excellent binge watching someday, but having to wait a week for each episode means you want things to happen.

One thing I don't wonder about, though, is Rick's escape. The closing shot of JSS was dramatic, but Rick wasn't an any real danger from the horde - they didn't know he was there. The horde was doing the zombie horde thing, moving mindlessly in one direction. Typically zombies are too stupid to master doorknob technology, so he was safe in the RV as long as he was quiet. All Rick had to do was wait for most of them to pass by, then make a mad dash for the woods and take a different route home.

Were we really supposed to know who Zombie Betsy was from what was on screen? I watch this show pretty closely, and leave the closed captioning on so I don't lose any dialogue to fake southern accents, and I didn't have a clue. The show needs to do a better job at differentiating the ASZhats. One woman was complaining at the town meeting, and I could have sworn we saw her get eaten a couple weeks ago.

[missy jo]

I have no doubt though that he'll show up eventually using the same magic teleporter Rick used to escape the RV.  Probably with the previously unmentioned storm drain figuring prominently into it.

 

 

He better not. Don't get me wrong - it sucks to lose the character, but the writers have really pushed their luck (with me at least!) with dragging out the suspense over his death. After leaving both Glenn and Rick near certain death two episodes ago, it would be such a big copout.

 

And I already think that not showing Rick escape the RV is a HUGE copout.

[Nashville]

Delurking to add that these are unprotected metal panels on unprotected steel supports. In a hot fire they'd melt in under an hour, so dry grass issues aside the walls would still melt allowing the walkers in.

• Wouldn't the thicknesses of the steel in the various components be a significant mitigating factor, in terms of the heat required to melt them?
• In an open/unenclosed environment, how likely would it be for "natural" components (zombies, grass, etc.) to attain and focus a meltable degree of heat against the metal?

Yielding to your expertise in this area - but way back in my school days I used to keep gas money in my pocket doing doing a variety of odd jobs - including some rendering work, which primarily involved me chopping up metal junk for scrap. I know how long, for example, it can take to cut steel plate and pipe of varying thicknesses with an acetylene torch, and I have trouble seeing how a pile of zombies could generate that much heat - unless, of course, they'd wandered through an explosives warehouse somewhere and chowed down on some really tasty thermite. ;) Another modifying factor, I suppose, could be what accelerants the ASZhats might use to start such a fire, and where they were used. Or were you thinking not so much of outright melting, but of heat weakening the structural integrity enough for the sheeting/supports to bow and/or buckle under their own weight?

I ask to educate, not to argue. :)

[Ocean Chick]

And they could keep Judith and thus all the disposable women would consolidate into one household - the too old, the too young and the too awesome for love.

 

 

 

I have to protest here - Michonne is not too old for love!

[riverheightsnancy]

You know what would fix that?  Death.

 

I take it that you don't like the character huh? ;)  Do I have to remind you of the delight that FTWD was? This is STILL way, way better than that was. Hey, I got into this show, because of that show (and your recommendation)!  lol 

[meep.meep]

The door where Jessie put down the tray of cookies is where Morgan has the Wolf locked up?

[morgankobi]

The door where Jessie put down the tray of cookies is where Morgan has the Wolf locked up?

No, it was in her house- Ron's room.

[maystone]

Some things:

 

I'm one of those who thinks that we didn't have to be shown how Rick escaped the RV; we've seen various members of CDB escape from situations like that over and over since S1E2. As Daryl said (paraphrasing) - whenever we go out, sooner or later we end up running. I loved the visual of Rick racing ahead of and through all of those converging walkers. My heart started racing right along with him.

 

After Denise leaned in and kissed Tara, and Tara didn't object but did give her a "Uh, what was that?" look, Denise responded, "I don't want to be afraid anymore." And Tara grinned. Because my girl Denise just threw open the closet door :) I've now got this whole back story created for Dr. Denise that makes me very happy and kind of swoony for her and Tara. I think I have to be all fangirly about that in a different thread, though.

 

There's a manhole cover very visible in one of the main streets in ASZ. I noticed it right away (it was especially prominent in the 360 tour of ASZ on the AMC site), and I wondered if anyone was going to think to secure the damn thing because that's a perfect hidden pathway right into the community. In fact, when the wolves attacked, I was thinking that maybe they got in through the sewer system.

 

We did get to see Maggie's reaction to the news about Glenn. It was when she broke down with Aaron and changed her mind about going in search of her husband. She was all stiff-upper-lip about it in front of everyone else. And really, we saw her breakdown when she saw her father decapitated; we saw her breakdown when Daryl carried her sister's body out of the hospital. I really didn't expect that we'd see that kind of explosive grief a third time. But we did - it just wasn't as public.

 

I was fine with Jessie kind of gently putting down Betsy and being OK about doing that. Betsy was her friend; I wouldn't expect Jessie to go all rabid killer on her. As to not being traumatized afterward, well, she was on the receiving end of a lot of physical abuse for a lot of years. This was, generally speaking, not outside of her world view.

 

And poor Deanna. Yeah, I was shouting at the TV, too - "The head! The head! THE HEAD!" But I also realized that she's a tiny woman, and that was a pretty tall zombie. The lady needed a step-ladder to get a good shot at the brain.  And I did get to feel a little bit smug about my chances of surviving the ZA, because even though I'm older and arthritic, I'm still tall enough to clock someone in the face :)

[peach]

I take it that you don't like the character huh? ;)  Do I have to remind you of the delight that FTWD was? This is STILL way, way better than that was. Hey, I got into this show, because of that show (and your recommendation)!  lol 

Yeaaah, I remember.  Lol.  I think this episode aggravated me for the same reason FTWD did.  They built up a situation, and then skipped all the stuff I wanted to see to show me stuff I didn't.   At least they glossed over an hour's worth of material and not nine DAYS.

[blackwing]

I disagree. A psychiatrist IS a medical doctor and she has the same training and rotations as a resident intern like all MDs do. Once they specialize, that is where you start to work specifically in your area, but some choose their speciality after their rotations. I had to deal with some of the most inept residents in respect to psychological processes. They frankly did not care about psychiatric and could wait to leave the unit. They would argue with us about proper detox protocol when we had a patient in obvious distress or DTs. It was always a fight and they knew shit about addictions. It always seemed like they wanted to punish the patients with addictions.  

 

Psychiatrists also can write scripts, so they will have a much higher level of understanding of those processes and drug interactions because they receive training in those areas. I cannot imagine anyone goes through all that to be an MD and not retain some of it, or at least an ability to know how or what to research to find out.  When they work their ED rotation, they will be dealing with emergencies. The nurses do not necessarily stitch up gunshot wounds or deep cuts. The residents do. If they had made her character a psychologist, then sure, two different worlds, both docs (MD vs. PHD or PsyD). Different training. If they had made her a nurse or an EMT, I could better accept that her training was not enough and/or she opted not to go to med school because she could not handle it. I have a friend who just got through med school a few years ago and is in rotation for neurosurgeon, To get through med school the person has received a ton of training. It is rigorous. Denise should be able to handle some aspects of helping people and if she thinks they are too far gone, she should say so and work to make their passing as comfortable as possible. I hate how they are making her so weak and neurotic. She is an MD and a psychiatrist, come on!  I have worked with psych patients in emergent situations. I know that my training would kick right back in if i were in a similar situation. 

I agree.  I think this show did a huge disservice to psychiatrists with this portrayal of psychiatrists.  Psychiatrists already are at a disadvantage because most of the world seems to confuse them with psychologists.  Now we have this character acting and saying she's not a "real" doctor.  She should have some basic medical training.  I get that she's not an ER doctor or a surgeon, but she is still a doctor nonetheless.  I mean, we had Herschel, who was a veterinarian, taking up the challenge of practicing medicine on people.  This woman curls into a ball and hopes for a "real" doctor to show up at the gate?  Hate this.  I hope she gets eaten and dies.  I don't need to see a weak sad sack doctor on this show.  I'd rather they have Sasha reading books and becoming the village "doctor" than seeing this woman.

[BellyLaughter]

Oh. Thanks.

I'm starting to really resent the fact that you have to watch the after show for information that should be evident in the narrative.

Especially when the after show is way, way, way to fan-geek to be tolerable....

[Maggio5]

 

• Wouldn't the thicknesses of the steel in the various components be a significant mitigating factor, in terms of the heat required to melt them?
• In an open/unenclosed environment, how likely would it be for "natural" components (zombies, grass, etc.) to attain and focus a meltable degree of heat against the metal?

Yielding to your expertise in this area - but way back in my school days I used to keep gas money in my pocket doing doing a variety of odd jobs - including some rendering work, which primarily involved me chopping up metal junk for scrap. I know how long, for example, it can take to cut steel plate and pipe of varying thicknesses with an acetylene torch, and I have trouble seeing how a pile of zombies could generate that much heat - unless, of course, they'd wandered through an explosives warehouse somewhere and chowed down on some really tasty thermite. ;) Another modifying factor, I suppose, could be what accelerants the ASZhats might use to start such a fire, and where they were used. Or were you thinking not so much of outright melting, but of heat weakening the structural integrity enough for the sheeting/supports to bow and/or buckle under their own weight?

I ask to educate, not to argue. :)

 

I will begin with saying that I'm not a construction expert, but I did spend a large part of my career inspecting buildings to determine an insurance fire-rating classification (so I inspected before it burned down, rather than after). From an insurance perspective, a steel pole building in a normal fire circumstance (meaning something in the building caught fire enough to call the fire department and is larger than what a typical extinguisher would put out) without insulation or protection would last about an hour before causing structural damage/melting/eventual collapse...and would probably be built of similar components to what they're showing (this can also be affected by the fuel load inside...do you have plastic pallets burning or concrete blocks...more fuel load = hotter fire).

 

I'm not sure a pile of zombies could necessarily burn through the wall on their own, but if the fire grew out of control it would certainly weaken the structural integrity of the wall. I agree that it would be difficult, and without a roof to contain the heat it would be even harder, but a burning pile of walkers up against the wall would make me really nervous! So yes, I think my concern would be altering the structural integrity more than causing outright collapse :) Having said that, they could probably reinforce the wall in some way, or cause the fire a bit further away...I'm probably veering off topic, but any sort of fire without a control system makes me nervous!

Edited November 9, 2015 by Maggio5

[kj4ever]

Tell it!

 

I too think Jessie's son is up to something but I can't figure out why he stopped Carl from going after Enid considering they are surrounded by walkers. I'd think he'd want Carl in harm's way.

I think he stopped Carl because he didn't want him going all hero again.  I mean look where Enid went when the shit hit the fan?  Certainly not to Ron's ass.

 

After rewatch I don't think that Rick ignored Judith or Carl. There seemed to be time jumps and I think we were supposed to envision all that happening off screen, kind of like how he escaped from the truck.  Seriously, let's face it.  Rick hasn't exactly been Father of the year to Judith - he has left her raising to other people for the most part, at least that's what it looks like from what we've been shown.  He'd pop in and pop out, and that's probably why Carol gave her shift to Spencer.  She knew she'd need to keep an eye on Judith.

 

I resolved myself to the fact that this show will always have an influx of new characters that I'd rather not see last season when The Walking Comics (Eugene, Abe, Tara, Rosita) showed up.  I could have cared less and hated every second they had screen time.  Now I really like Eugene and Rosita, and have warmed to Abe and Tara a bit.  In a show like this we are going to lose people and they will always be meeting new ones, so I try and give them the benefit of the doubt now, even if it gets on my last nerve.

[ParadoxLost]

Thanks.  I appreciate everyone's comments on that post. My alarm went off this morning, and I just laid in there in the dark thinking about how mad this show made me.  I probably need some kind of professional help, but for now, this is it.

As for the gripping questions the show answered:

How will Deanna react?  She'll turn into Madison Stone Faced Clark.

How will Spencer react?  A grown ass man will scream that it's all his Moooommmyyyy's fault!!!!  But that's okay, because like Rosita said, you did kill that one guy, back before you stole all the food.

 

So don't shoot me, but I thought this what everyone has missed with this show and was clamoring for with FTWD.  And looking at it that way, I didn't hate the episode.

 

The Alexandrians suddenly got a wake up call to the evil that mankind is capable of and zombie hordes.  This episode showed a range of reactions to realizing what the world they live in is now.

 

Deanna's reaction reminded my of how South Park satirized the reaction to 911 where basically everyone curled up on a couch and watched CNN in a kind of fugue state until they got to a point where they could cope with the new reality.

 

You had the people who loot stores.

 

You had the guy who makes a pretty speech and steals for himself.

 

The person who commits suicide.

 

The people who decide they are going to confront reality and survive.

[BrokenRemote]

Ever since they first met two weeks ago? Yeah I'm that person. In Show time they've been there fourteen days. That is a blink of an eye yet look at all the destruction CDB hath wrought. I applaud Rick and the Widow Anderson not wasting any time but on the other hand the whole story line makes me a tad queasy. Motion sickness?

Here's the thing, though: I feel like in this kind of world where you've watched so damned many of the people you loved die in awful ways, when you could be next tomorrow and even if you aren't things look pretty bleak, in that kind of world people would be turning to each other for comfort and fourteen days would not be a short time to know someone before you're in his or her pants. Because if you don't seize the day today they could be eaten tomorrow and you'd have missed your chance.

I think it's strange that there isn't more of this type of "I just met you and this is crazy--let's do it".

[peach]

So don't shoot me, but I thought this what everyone has missed with this show and was clamoring for with FTWD.  And looking at it that way, I didn't hate the episode.

 

The Alexandrians suddenly got a wake up call to the evil that mankind is capable of and zombie hordes.  This episode showed a range of reactions to realizing what the world they live in is now.

 

Deanna's reaction reminded my of how South Park satirized the reaction to 911 where basically everyone curled up on a couch and watched CNN in a kind of fugue state until they got to a point where they could cope with the new reality.

 

You had the people who loot stores.

 

You had the guy who makes a pretty speech and steals for himself.

 

The person who commits suicide.

 

The people who decide they are going to confront reality and survive.

Well, I guess I won't shoot you.

 

The thing is, I don't CARE about any of these persons. We're on season SIX of this show.  We've already encountered these scenarios with other characters.  They're dangling the death of an original Atlanta 5 character over our heads, our group is separated, and ASZ was overrun with psychos.  I want to see CDB grapple with that, not this new bunch of idiots.

 

FTWD billed itself as the original fall of civilization, and they pretty much skipped that part.

[Diane M]

Has this question ever been asked:  How large is the community of Alexandria, how many acres, how many blocks along the main street?  Obviously, Deanna's husband built the wall all around the community or it wouldn't be secure.  Wouldn't there be another gate (possibly smaller) as a sort of escape hatch in an emergency? 

 

Why aren't Rick and the others shooting at the crowd of walkers?  Do they not have enough guns, are they out of bullets?  This makes no sense to me.

[lulee]

I hope the next time we see Alexandria in daylight, somebody's taken down a flagpole, sharpened it and is using it - while wearing a safety harness - to spear walkers in the head.

And by "somebody," I mean somebody of those who aren't busy getting busy or fighting over cans of wax beans.

[Nashville]

I'd rather they have Sasha reading books and becoming the village "doctor" than seeing this woman.

 

So long as the book in question isn't "War and Peace". :)

 

I'm not sure a pile of zombies could necessarily burn through the wall on their own, but if the fire grew out of control it would certainly weaken the structural integrity of the wall. I agree that it would be difficult, and without a roof to contain the heat it would be even harder, but a burning pile of walkers up against the wall would make me really nervous! So yes, I think my concern would be altering the structural integrity more than causing outright collapse :) Having said that, they could probably reinforce the wall in some way, or cause the fire a bit further away...I'm probably veering off topic, but any sort of fire without a control system makes me nervous!

In truth, I'd see the main danger to the wall in such a situation to be the ASZhats themselves - more specifically, what (if any) accelerants they might use to initiate such a fire. I could see a bunch of them pouring something like motor oil onto the walkers -and the wall - immediately below, then firing or throwing a flare into the middle of the mess for ignition. No WAY something could wrong with this plan, right? Right? :P

[blackwing]

Why aren't Rick and the others shooting at the crowd of walkers?  Do they not have enough guns, are they out of bullets?  This makes no sense to me.

I would imagine that they do have a finite supply of bullets.  I'm not sure how many they have, but it's not like they can just make more.  There appear to be hundreds if not thousands of walkers at the gate.  Shooting at them would be like peeing in the ocean.  Plus, the sound of that many shots would just attract even more walkers.

 

Better to save the bullets for when you need to go outside somehow to make a run.  At worst, they could certainly build a ladder on the other side of the village to climb over the wall to get out.  Then climb one of those outside diagonal support beams and get back in.

[ParadoxLost]

I would imagine that they do have a finite supply of bullets.  I'm not sure how many they have, but it's not like they can just make more.  There appear to be hundreds if not thousands of walkers at the gate.  Shooting at them would be like peeing in the ocean.  Plus, the sound of that many shots would just attract even more walkers.

 

Better to save the bullets for when you need to go outside somehow to make a run.  At worst, they could certainly build a ladder on the other side of the village to climb over the wall to get out.  Then climb one of those outside diagonal support beams and get back in.

 

In addition to bullets, I suspect its the noise inciting them they are trying to be avoid.  I thought it was funny the number of times people were ignoring Rick's instruction to be very very quiet including the very specific instructions.  But what do I expect?  Rick gave that instruction and then gave target practice on the wall.

 

Although I was thrilled that Rick palmed the rest of the bullets because he, like me, totally thinks that kid will try to kill him at some point.

 

However, I don't understand why there are no people on poke them in the brain duty like back at the prison to keep the pressure off the walls as much as possible.  I guess the gate was the only viable poking place and wouldn't make too much difference.

[Soobs]

I was wondering how Rick escaped the RV and I guess the writers were wondering too. Had a good chuckle at how quickly all the red shirts got worried about food. Something tells me that everyone who doesn't have a known name at this point is not going to have to worry too much about the food source drying up. Did Deanna knock drunk Spencer off the wall when she was banging on it?