S31.E07: Play To Win

[jsm1125]

While I generally like Spencer, he rubbed me the wrong way in his confessional where he told us that he felt like he had to talk to Joe like he was a dense jock. While Joe may not be a master strategist, he never struck me as simple-minded!

[LanceM]

I loved this episode. So much fun!!!

 

Why wasn't Abi with working with the majority and Tasha? I thought she liked Tasha, and they were apart for only 3 days right after the swap.

 

Have you not noticed the pattern this season? Abi flips on her "alliance" every vote.   

[JudyObscure]

Wentworth seems to be getting the winner's edit. Since Day 1.

It's getting to be almost funny. In an episode where Ciera, Kass, Tasha and several men were in danger of leaving and playing pivotal parts, we get interview after interview with...Kelley Wentworth.

Ordinarily I would have really enjoyed Kass's exit, but after Ciera smugly lectured everyone to play harder, it would have been supremely satisfying to see her voted off by those slackers.

[vb68]

 

Ciera voted for Savage.

 

 

I don't know why I wrote that wrong.  I guess I was just keyed on Wenthworth switching up her vote too. 

 

I think Kass had been living on borrowed time for awhile, and people were more than ready to jump at the opportunity, like Keith.

 

 

Ordinarily I would have really enjoyed Kass's exit, but after Ciera smugly lectured everyone to play harder, it would have been supremely satisfying to see her voted off by those slackers.

 

 

There is something about Ciera that I find very unpleasant.  Not to an Abi level, but it's there.  I think smugness sums it up well.

Edited November 5, 2015 by vb68

[dkb]

Have you not noticed the pattern this season? Abi flips on her "alliance" every vote.   

 

That is true, but usually there is a reason that makes sense to Abi and we see it. But I guess there was too much other drama going around this episode to include an Abi narrative. 

Ciera HATES Savage so much, it's fun to watch. Also surprised that Savage put aside his dislike for Ciera and let Kass be the one that went home. I thought that he was going to end up going home because he would try to make Ciera the target.

Edited November 5, 2015 by dkb

[Zuleikha]

Have you not noticed the pattern this season? Abi flips on her "alliance" every vote.

What's extra funny about this to me is that there was a bonus clip with Tasha last episode talking about how happy she was not to be on a tribe with Abi anymore, but she was worried about Savage deciding to vote off Abi because Abi's such a pain. Then she said that may not be a good decision because Abi's loyal. Yep, there's that famous Abi loyalty again. I think Tasha's playing decently, but why on earth did she ever think Abi was loyal? I know she didn't know about Abi's flips at Ta Keo, but at Ankor, Abi flipped on Ta Keo Strong right away. What about that says loyalty?

[Iheardawho]

It's getting to be almost funny. In an episode where Ciera, Kass, Tasha and several men were in danger of leaving and playing pivotal parts, we get interview after interview with...Kelley Wentworth.

Ordinarily I would have really enjoyed Kass's exit, but after Ciera smugly lectured everyone to play harder, it would have been supremely satisfying to see her voted off by those slackers.

Ciera lectured the group, I believe, because she has literally been *that* unaware of all of the game playing/strategy going on around her! She should never stepped onto that soap box... It *only* further alienated her from the group.

I would have loved to see her voted off this episode, but having crazy Kass eliminated NOW is such a breath of fresh air.

[yamashinaryu]

I was very surprised by the outcome of Takeo 5 votes. Kelley and Keith voted for Kass, Joe voted for Ciera, Kass voted for Tasha and Ciera voted for Savage. How I wish they all voted for Savage just for pure blindside fun. 

 

I thought Kass would be the first one out. It's good that she's a jury. 

Edited November 5, 2015 by yamashinaryu

[Turtle]

Why did Cierra vote Savage?

Not that it would have mattered, but she went against her voting block.

  

So, Ciera...correctly reading the room and determining Kass was the target of the majority, decides that she's not going to vote Tasha (in an attempt to work with her down the line, I suppose), but instead votes...Savage. Who is working with Tasha. Apparently unbeknownst to Ciera? It's like she only read half the room.

 

What an odd, random vote.

I think Ciera decided not to vote for Tasha because she realized that if Kass had an idol, Ciera could end up tied with Tasha, which Ciera definitely did not want. She probably didn't want to vote for Kass for the same reason. She's pissed at Savage for throwing her name out as the bluff vote last week, and so throwing a vote to him doesn't cost her much game-wise. No one will question why she voted Savage, not even Savage, and since she knew he wasn't going, even he might get over it if he realizes she was trying to protect herself. I never understood why people liked her, but if that's what she was up to, I respect it.

If Kass is the first jury member, does that mean a final two instead of three? Thirteen people this episode, and so a final three would mean an even-numbered jury.

Joe is so good at everything. First time he doesn't win immunity, he might be in big trouble.

[ToastnBacon]

Goat cheesy Kass with her plumber's ass crack showing all the time had to go.

I was tired of hearing her talk like she had the game locked up.

[KaveDweller]

  If Kass is the first jury member, does that mean a final two instead of three? Thirteen people this episode, and so a final three would mean an even-numbered jury.

 

They've had even number juries before.  And with a final three you can have a tie with an odd number on the jury.

 

I'd love to know what a tie-breaker would be for the final vote, but it hasn't been needed since they went to final 3.

[TheFinalRose]

Hallelujah! The Wicked Old Witch at last is dead! Goodbye Kass. Obviously the "nice" version of Kass that you trotted out the other day was the fake Kass.  I am so glad that I don't have to watch her anymore. Well, except I am sure she will spend the next however many days writing what she thinks is an awesome, Sue Hawk rivaling final tribal speech. But till then, I don't have to suffer watching her anymore. 

 

 

 

 

[Bryce Smith]

The hell -- ?!  My post disappeared!

 

Oh, well.  I'll just repeat that Probst was right that this post-merge game will be crazy if that chaotic Tribal Council is of any indication.

 

I still think the two people in the best positions are Jeremy and Kelley.  Jeremy has everyone in the tribe coming to him for strategy most of the time, and Kelley just has the confessionals that lets me think that she's in for the long haul.

 

It was obvious that Ciera threw her vote to Andrew because she realized that Spencer wasn't flipping to them to vote out Tasha.  That, and seeing that they'd lost Keith due to her and Kass's antics before the Immunity Challenge.  Kelley probably let them know that she was going with the numbers, as well.  So Ciera didn't want to write Kass's name down, thus choosing to throw her vote at Andrew.

[ToastnBacon]

They've had even number juries before.  And with a final three you can have a tie with an odd number on the jury.

 

I'd love to know what a tie-breaker would be for the final vote, but it hasn't been needed since they went to final 3.

An F3 with a 10 person jury can still tie.

Two players get five votes each and the third gets zero.

[LadyChatts]

They've had even number juries before.  And with a final three you can have a tie with an odd number on the jury.

 

I'd love to know what a tie-breaker would be for the final vote, but it hasn't been needed since they went to final 3.

 

I don't know if this is confirmed, but from what I've read elsewhere, the person who finished in 3rd would cast a vote then and there for the winner.  

[KaveDweller]

An F3 with a 10 person jury can still tie.

Two players get five votes each and the third gets zero.

 

I know they can, I was just saying that a tie has always been an option when you have a final 3 and it's never happened.

[ProfCrash]

Well that was interesting. I am not a fan of Kass but I really don't like Tasha. She holds a huge grudge and is kind of a bitch. I have no problem with her lying about telling Kass Bayon is dead, that is fair game. I have a problem with her attitude.

I have no idea what Ciera and Kass were thinking. Start a ton of shit at camp and put huge targets on your back is not a great strategy. All they did was make it for others to go with the majority vote and harder to flip the vote.

So there are two clear camps and room for the floaters. I can see a ton of flopping happening this season because why not? Use the numbers to take out who you want from either camp and find yourself in the numbers.

I want Andrew gone as soon as possible.

[North of Eden]

Thank you voters! If Tasha my favorite player had gone home tonight I would have lost all interest in the rest of the season.

With that said...a lot of strange voting there....Abbi's vote was interesting in that we never saw any hesitation on her part about voting Tasha who seemed on good terms with her during their time on Ankor tribe.

 

Anyway...so happy to see Kass go as she cost us Woo! And Ciera and her bitch face can go next.

 

Steven's plotting against Joe seems to have been abandoned...for good or not we shall see.

 

There was an intersting camera shot tonight that framed Spencer, Kass and Tasha in the same frame...just their heads as they listened to the poem. You would have thought that these three might have found a way to come together and work on the same side but the gulf was just too wide.

 

So no clue at the merge? Nobody was seen searching for it amidst the food.

[Bryce Lynch]

At least she's in the jury. Hope her one vote costs someone the million.

Oh, Ciera voted Savage. I thought it was Spencer.

Why did Ciera vote Savage instead of Tasha? Revenge for him floating her name as the decoy last week? It didn't matter, but if Kass had been able to flip Spencer and possibly Joe, Ciera might have ended up voting herself out.

[KaveDweller]

I don't know if this is confirmed, but from what I've read elsewhere, the person who finished in 3rd would cast a vote then and there for the winner.  

 

Thanks, that makes sense, I guess.  I'd love to see it happen and how they'd handle it. I guess they would do it at the actual tribal and not wait for the live show? Would be interesting either way.

[Lantern7]

I think the merge works better with fewer people. I can't keep track of alliances, allegiances and loyalties. Basically, I'm a Joe that needs Spencer to do the heavier thinking for me. I'm okay with Kass going, but I won't celebrate an ouster until Abi-Maria gets the boot.

 

Did Kelly-with-one-E have any confessionals? I think even Keith got one, and I barely notice Keith  unless he's spitting. I figure she would get stuck with the non-jury members at the kids' table when the Reunion takes place.

[Katesus7]

Thank goodness Kass is off my TV! This is what irritates the hell out of me with her - when the tribes merged, there was immediate scrambling over getting a group of 7. Kass was involved with this, and Tasha was not included in her numbers. She never considered Tasha an ally. The stupid talk where both of them blew smoke up each other's asses, Tasha straight up said in her confessional she was blowing smoke up Kass' ass. Kass sits there in her confessional, all butthurt because according to her, SHE was being honest, and Tasha just couldn't get over who Kass was her last season, so Kass had no choice but to be the character she created for herself last season. Yeah, OK, Chaos Kass. Enjoy being smug on jury.

It would've made no sense for Spencer to flip. He boots Tasha (And why on earth would he want to boot Tasha?) only to be on an alliance of 5 (which includes Abi, so not so much) against 7. Brilliant.

And Ciera made no freaking sense at tribal council. Total word soup. A lot of sentences that sounded great, but when put together are silly. Ciera, honey, sometimes when a big group comes together, and says "Hey, let's boot this person who is kind of causing problems, and we're all safe", 'playing the game' is smiling, agreeing, voting with the group, and having three more days to make some real bonds. It's not "well, Ciera said shit about Savage, so she's obviously playing the game, so I MUST keep her and do what she wants". She was pretty terrible tonight, and I have always liked her. I think.

Who is Keith? All I got from him tonight was some random shot of him pretending to swing a bat in the background as that whole Kass/Tasha/Ciera/Savage kerfluffle was going on. He just wants to chill his way to fifth place, I guess.

[Bryce Lynch]

Kass would have stayed if she had just avoided getting into it with Tasha. She and Spencer managed to call a truce on their old game wounds, so I wonder why she just had to have a go at Tasha. It wasn't smart.

Are we sure on that? I didn't hear Probst say it. Usually the first person out after a merge doesn't make the jury.

Certainly interesting that Ciera is the one that voted Savage.

I like sneaky Joe weighing both sides. Maybe Spencer will have a good influence on him.

Probst did say "...and the first member of our jury." so Kass is definitely on it.

[Gentian root]

Your strategy is to stir shit and to advertise that you're the one doing so with your video game handle nickname that you gave yourself. If they brought you back on a season of all first boots in wheelchairs you would never make it further than goat.
Abi can go next.

Edited November 5, 2015 by GenL

[green]

Well I wanted Andrew gone asap but now he can go after Stephen.  I just cannot stand that guy.  Survivor has "evolved" into a new level by targeting "little women" after the merge?  Please.  And then there was the poetry hour.  At least Andrew is kind of funny in his King Andrew the Mighty smugness.  Stephen is just pathetic.  And in the end with his fixation on "big moves" he will probably make chaos Kass look like a calm, cool, collected Kass by comparison.

 

Keith and Original Kelley are obviously living in a parallel universe and every half day they crossover to appear with the rest of the Survivors for 3 seconds before disappearing again.

 

People that the editors seem to be showcasing in a very positive way contiune to be Jeremy, Non-Original Kelley and Spenser.

 

Joe is gonna be toast the first time he loses immunity.  He is too obviously too good at the challenges not to be targeted. It will be interesting when they decide it is "Joe must go" time.  I'm sure Stephen will take credit for it as a "big move" too though guys like Joe always get targeted after the merge.  Oh wait, Stephen has stated Survivor has "evolved" it's post-merge strategy.  Hah, Stephen will be leading the "non-evolved" charge against Joe is my guess.  Hope it blows up in his face.

[Nashville]

Okay I am saying this not seeing who voted for who - but this is why I wouldn't go out of my way to save anyone.  Kass saved Spencer - and put her neck on the line, when she could have (and I wish would have) voted Spencer out. Next game, all Spencer had to do was write down Tasha, and it would have been up in the air for the next round and it would have been okay, and he didn't

 

so. basically. stick with your gut  and don't "save" people. very, very rarely does it ever work back in your favour (Natalie  in SdS      is the only exception I can think of right away)

 

Actually, that DID work for Kass.  Spencer didn't "betray" Kass; he cast his vote for Ciera.  Just too many other people voted Kass for Spencer's single vote to stem the tide - including Kelley, one of the primary people Kass was depending on to vote Tasha.

Abi can go next.

 

Decent odds on that, if they can get the votes truthfully sorted out.

[Guest]

Ah, I like Kass.  And her Ponderosa video just cemented it.  I liked her in Cagayan, too, though.  I respect a mom-aged woman who isn't going to play the quiet cleaning lady around camp game. 

 

So I guess tonight revealed the "slow burn" change to the game Probst referred to earlier... no more long-term alliances, just one 'week' voting blocs?  

 

Ciera sounds like she's trying to get majority alliance low-men-on-the-totem to flip and "play the game" and they're not budging.  Which good for her for knowing it and throwing out a random Andrew vote, I guess.  Is it Spencer and Joe like Kass suggested?  I find it a little hard to believe these totem poles are really firm at all (which is kind of Probst's and Stephen's and Spencer's point).  

[yamashinaryu]

This is becoming All-stars 2.0. No one is taking risks. I bet Shii-Ann is shouting once again "stupid people, stupid". Ciera is right, and I like her and Kass' suspicion that the group is splitting up the votes. Tasha is a terrible lie. Her reaction after Jeff says that Kass is the first member of the jury - priceless. 

[pennben]

I think there have been lots of risks already taken in each tribal.  Indeed, as was noted by Jeff, almost every tribal vote has ended up being different than the original vote planned by the majority for that vote (not necessarily blindsides, but always someone shifts where they initially were).

 

As for Tasha, while I loved her "NOT TODAY SATAN" attitude throughout this episode towards Kass, I think the better response to Kass asking if Bayon was done would have been to flip it back on Kass.....'you tell me Kass, you are the one proudly talking about flipping the vote on Savage last tribal, are you done with Bayon'?

[Lantern7]

Before I forget . . . did they show how the tribe came to be called Orkun? Maybe Burnett and Probst got tired of the lame merge tribe names,

[LadyChatts]

Before I forget . . . did they show how the tribe came to be called Orkun? Maybe Burnett and Probst got tired of the lame merge tribe names,

 

Not that I saw.  I'm kind of curious, but especially after last season, glad they skipped over the 10 minutes of merge name debating and flag painting.

 

ETA: Wait, the tribe name debate is this week's secret scene!  Apparently it means "thank you" in the local language and is supposed to be a shout out to the fans and the people of Cambodia.

Edited November 5, 2015 by LadyChatts

[azshadowwalker]

Ciera please, you sound like Fishbach, just because people aren't playing the game in the way you want them to play doesn't mean that they're not looking out for themselves. Get over yourself. 

 

Exactly what i was thinking. Telling people not to be "6, 7 or 8" in another alliance, but to be 5 in hers. Fucking please. There was no logic there, just Ciera whine.

[pennben]

Before I forget . . . did they show how the tribe came to be called Orkun? Maybe Burnett and Probst got tired of the lame merge tribe names,

 

On Fishbach's twitter, he stated:  "We named the merge tribe Orkun because that means "thank you" in Khmer. We wanted to thank all the fans who voted for us. Kimmi's idea."

[Superpole2000]

In my eyes, the merge was too soon. I like team dynamics and team challenges. Teams also provide a bit more meat to each episode. I felt like this particular episode was very dialogue-heavy. I like strategy, and I like strategic talk, but I don't need 30-40 minutes of it. Survivor offers something a bit more than Big Brother, but not so much in an episode such as this.

 

By the 30 minute mark, I was tuning out, so I missed the reasoning behind Kass' ouster. Then again, how much reason do you really need beyond "I don't like her!" to vote someone out? It is quite satisfying to watch people overplaying themselves into an elimination...like a poker player who bluffs every single hand.

 

One final thing...how long can they wait to get rid of Joe? Do they not see the immunity run coming? Joe winning today's challenge might have worked against him in the long run.

[yamashinaryu]

Exactly what i was thinking. Telling people not to be "6, 7 or 8" in another alliance, but to be 5 in hers. Fucking please. There was no logic there, just Ciera whine.

The Bayon tribe is giving me flashback of Alicia, Jenna, Big Tom, etc in All-stars. I hope I'm wrong and more shake up to happen. If not, this will be a long and very boring season. 

 

I feel the merge at 13 is a wrong move from the producers. 

[Lantern7]

pennben . . . thanks for the info. And a hearty "Orkun" to Kimmi for coming up with that. Anything is an improvement over "Merica."

[bunnyface]

Ah, I like Kass.  And her Ponderosa video just cemented it.  I liked her in Cagayan, too, though.  I respect a mom-aged woman who isn't going to play the quiet cleaning lady around camp game. 

 

 

 

Worked just the opposite for me.  I didn't "like" her before but after watching that Ponderosa, I REALLY don't like her.  But I do like her drawing pictures for her daughter.  But I don't like her.

[LanceM]

Here a secret clip discussing the tribe name.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaIhPs8HoSk

[Bryce Smith]

pennben, on 05 Nov 2015 - 12:04 AM, said:

On Fishbach's twitter, he stated:  "We named the merge tribe Orkun because that means "thank you" in Khmer. We wanted to thank all the fans who voted for us. Kimmi's idea."

Points to Kimmi, then.  She's a bit of an oddball, but I'm giving her props for the nice gesture.  I just wish it would've come out on-screen.

 

I'm glad Stephen gave her the credit for it rather than try and take it himself.

[azshadowwalker]

I will say that I like Joe's hair much better when it's down. The bun is so fucking hipster and annoying, but the long, wavy hair is cool. It reminds me of my husband.

[Jobiska]

Well, not sure if Orkun liked it, but I have to say that Gerard Manley Hopkins is one of my favorite poets and that's one of my favorite poems of his (though not one I have memorized).  So it made me like Stephen a little better.  (I actually don't dislike him, but I'm not as big a fan as I was in his original season).

Keith practicing his golf swing or whatever behind all of the bickering cracked me up.

The black and white storks [?] were really pretty.  Not sure of the symbolism unless it was that that was quite the crapload of storks and with 13 we have quite the crapload of Survivors on the merge tribe.

Between Kass and Tasha in their argument, I was more on Kass' side, but I'm not too sorry she is gone, because there's no point in being a huge fan since she was never going to win (Chaos or not).  I guess I'd be happy with any win but Savage, Abi, Tasha because I don't like them or Keith or Kelly because they're just not playing.  Pretty good odds for me still maybe?

I liked the merge feast wooden drinking glasses.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Jobiska

[GaT]

That was a really boring episode. I thought Kass had figured out what she did wrong last time, but I guess not, Chaos Kass does not do well in Survivor.

[Bryce Lynch]

Actually, that DID work for Kass. Spencer didn't "betray" Kass; he cast his vote for Ciera. Just too many other people voted Kass for Spencer's single vote to stem the tide - including Kelley, one of the primary people Kass was depending on to vote Tasha.

Decent odds on that, if they can get the votes truthfully sorted out.

Spencer only voted for Ciera to split the votes just in case Kass has an idol. He was absolutely a major player in the plot to vote out Kass

[millennium]

I don't like the way the show passes off the "frontrunner" role from one ego-driven male to another.   For several weeks it was Varner who dominated the confessionals; now that Varner's gone it's the Savage show.  What bugs me is that Savage hasn't done anything, either strategically or in challenges, to merit the spotlight.   But there he is, practically narrating the show.

 

I'm puzzled as to why none of the Survivors think to look for immunity idols or clues at the merge feast, or even when the food arrives during reward challenges.  Aren't those historically occasions when rewards/clues can be found hidden in the basket, etc?   In fact, no one has seemed particularly interested in HII's for at least two episodes now.

[Zuleikha]

I didn't think Kass trying to blow up Tasha's game was a bad idea, but she and Ciera didn't execute terribly well. It's hard to know for sure if it mattered because we don't know when they lost Keith. If they lost Keith early because Kelley was just wrong about them having him, they probably lost Joe as a result of not having Keith. If they lost Keith because Keith got scared off of playing with Kass/Ciera after the confrontation, then it was a critical error.

 

I'm wondering if Tasha actually forgot that she did tell Kass that Bayon was dead, though. She's not the greatest liar--it was pretty obvious that she was lying to Kass when Kass was trying to talk to her--and she seemed really certain that she'd never said that Bayon was dead. Given how everything was playing out, it seems like Tasha could have said the truth, "I was playing coy with you because I don't trust you" as easily as "I never said that."

 

I don't know why Spencer and Wentworth didn't stick with the Tasha plan. It seems like long-term that would have been a better play since that would have hurt a seemingly core member of the Bayon group. I don't see how they lose very much by risking it (especially Wentworth!) because if the majority numbers stick together, they're on the outs anyway. Ciera (and probably Abi) are going to be higher priority targets. If the majority numbers fragment, better to still have something solid. My guess is maybe Spencer was already assigned Ciera in the vote split and didn't think there was a chance of getting an assigned-Kass person to flip or to get his assigned-person to change. 

 

I also think if Stephen was looking for a big move, defecting at this point would have been it. That would make him part of a good blindside and get him out of broville. It would have been riskier for him since he is part of the numbers, but if you want to be the type of player that Stephen claims he wants to be, you got to take some amount of risks.

[Wandering Snark]

So no clue at the merge? Nobody was seen searching for it amidst the food.

I for one, have loved the fact that the HII craze that has overtaken the game has been absent the past few episodes. Better than when it seemed everyone had an idol or a clue to one.

 

And I can't help but think this seeing the placeholder for the secret video:

 

Edited November 5, 2015 by Wandering Snark

[Bryce Smith]

Zuleikha, on 05 Nov 2015 - 01:43 AM, said:

It's hard to know for sure if it mattered because we don't know when they lost Keith. If they lost Keith early because Kelley was just wrong about them having him, they probably lost Joe as a result of not having Keith. If they lost Keith because Keith got scared off of playing with Kass/Ciera after the confrontation, then it was a critical error.

Keith made it quite clear in his confessional that Kass and Ciera lost him due to the confrontation with Andrew and Tasha, so I'd go with a critical error on their part.

[Zuleikha]

Keith made it quite clear in his confessional that Kass and Ciera lost him due to the confrontation with Andrew and Tasha, so I'd go with a critical error on their part.

Ha, that shows how memorable I find Keith's confessionals. I have no memory of this at all.

[Bryce Smith]

Zuleikha, on 05 Nov 2015 - 02:09 AM, said:

Ha, that shows how memorable I find Keith's confessionals. I have no memory of this at all.

It came during the planning before Tribal Council.  Keith gave this confessional, and then, we saw Kass, Ciera, Kelley, and Abi all look over and see him strategizing with Jeremy, Andrew, Stephen, Kimmi, Tasha, Spencer, Joe, and Kelly.  That was when they realized that they'd lost him.

[Trick Question]

On Fishbach's twitter, he stated:  "We named the merge tribe Orkun because that means "thank you" in Khmer. We wanted to thank all the fans who voted for us. Kimmi's idea."

God forbid this nice little scene actually makes it into the episode as opposed to, say, two more Savage confessionals.