S02.E04: 204

[Tara Ariano]

Helen makes an innocent mistake that leads to outrageous consequences. Meanwhile, a court order leads to a dire setback for Noah and Alison.

[Primetimer]

Sure, Helen's hairdo is a mess at the end of her no-good, terrible day. But the only thing messier is Noah's relationship with the members of his immediate family, who all have the good sense to despise him.

Read the story

[cardigirl]

Oh poor Helen...

[Gem 10]

Wow .. After watching tonight's episode, all I could see was how many lives are screwed up because of this "big love affair" between Noah and Allison. My heart is breaking for all the kids, especially Martin. Noah's fathers demeanor towards his son says it all about him. The sister Jennifer Esposito, who by the way looks great, was absolutely spot on when telling Noah about the custody of the kids. And, now Allison is adding to the pressure of the living situation. Ain't love grand?<br />

[izabella]

I think Helen is going to need to find a new hairdresser.

 

It was clear when Noah was talking with his sister that the only reason he wants full custody is to stick it to Helen.  And he seems to have no idea how much work it is to take care of children full time.

[LoveLeigh]

As I watched Helen unravel, Maura Tierney's performance seemed built on false notes. It just seemed so fake to me. It was all too much drama for the character and I didn't believe it. I kept thinking that the writers overwrote those scenes to give Maura Tierney a chance at winning an award. Plus, if that highlight bleach was left in her hair for such a long time, her hair would be worse than fried. 

 

The show goes back and forth from past to present and from different perspectives... and we still have not seen the accident. Each week to me seems like a remake of the previous week with just a few extra character elements thrown in that really don't drive the plot forward. 

Edited October 26, 2015 by DakotaLavender

[grumpypanda]

That was an uncomfortable hour of television. I was cringing through most of Helen's scenes especially while she was talking to her hairdresser. “Did you just hear that" actually made me laugh which is something that I never do while watching this show.

Anyway, I was indifferent towards Trevor until this episode but now I officially hate that little asshole. Jesus that kid is a douche bag! I wanted to punch him in his little rat looking face when he grabbed Helen's purse. Stacy had her seatbelt off for about a minute and only because she needed to move that damn rocket out of the way. It's not like Helen doesn't normally buckle her up.

Why either one of them wants full time custody of these kids is beyond me. Helen should gladly give Noah joint custody just so she can get a break. The only one I don't currently hate is Stacy. I do like that she listened to her mom and put the pink headband on to cover her wound.

I loved Noah's sister. She was spot on in her assessment of the situation. Noah doesn't really want the kids full time because it will interfere with his relationship with his girlfriend. Also taking those kids away from their mother after all the shit they've been through would make those bad kids even worse.

Lastly, I was so happy to see Tio (Mark Margolis) as Noah's father. Ding ding ding. I also hope that the kids see Alison at the hotel and rat them out.

Edited October 26, 2015 by grumpypanda

[SlackerInc]

What a fantastic episode.  This show has always been great but it just keeps getting better (having John Dahl in to direct didn't hurt).

 

Some notes I jotted down as I was laughing and cringing my way through the Helen segment:

 

LMAO at Helen's ditching mediation blowing up in her face.

 

But by the time she was in the police car I was feeling bad for her because things just spiraled so hilariously out of control.  Her lawyer is going to plotz when he realizes all the damage she has now done to her side of the case.

[yourmomiseasy]

So, there actually is a person worse than Noah and it's his son.  If I was Helen I'd give Noah full custody and run away and start over without my horrible family.  The only downside is that she'd have to pay child support.  We already knew the older two were horrible, but the younger son is the absolute worst ever.

 

I loved how even when biased through Noah's memory his sister made complete sense in everything she said when calling him out on being a selfish asshole and he just didn't get it.  Poor Noah, the world just doesn't get how special his great love is.  

 

I thought Max was thoughtful in his own oblivious way remembering Helen's court date, freeing up some time to spend with her, bringing her flowers and tickets for a trip.  Bummer for him that Helen was never really into it.

Edited October 26, 2015 by yourmomiseasy

[KittyS]

I thought Maura Tierney was great. It rang so true when she said to Noah, "Why do you get to fuck up and I don't?" Her viewpoint is the only one that doesn't bore me. Enough Allison and Noah!

Trevor is such a little asshole! And the oldest daughter being paid by her grandma to travel with her? What a spoiled little bitch! As others have already said, Helen would be smart NOT to get full custody of those brats. Yeah, I know they're just children, but man are they annoying.

I'm actually kind of liking the old friend from college. His timing sucks, but he's so much less annoying than the other adults.

[briochetwist]

Helen's POV was so hard to watch, my heart ached for her.  Everything in her life is going to shit and now that one (very bad) decision is going to cost her greatly.

 

I actually think I hate Allison more than Noah in this episode, she showed her true colours when Noah told her they couldn't live together yet.  I NEED YOU.  Uh yeah, how about the kids that he's neglected for what, a year now?  I think they need him too.  And suggesting that he gives Helen what she wants by seeing the kids less? Yep. Who didn't see that coming? 

 

Another thing, I don't think the kids are terrible. My heart breaks for them. They're totally confused and they need a therapist asap. 

 

Jennifer Esposito was awesome, and I couldn't help but laugh watching Noah do what he does best when things get rough - he runs away.

[DiabLOL]

Wow. So, I didn't think I could hate Noah and Allison any more than I did before watching tonight's ep. I felt horrible for Helen.

 

I think it would just be delightful TV for me to watch Allison and Noah get full 24/7 custody of the four little darlings! 

 

I loathed Allison when she was all I NEED YOU NOW. And turning up with that six pack? Fuck you, bitch, fuck you, Noah!

 

I don't know what to think of Trevor doing that to his mom. It really didn't ring true to me that he'd do that to her purse in front of a cop no less. 

 

Helen's naturally dark haircolor + hours of bleach left on= hair breaks off and there we have the explanation for her weird bangs.

 

I LOVED Noah's dad! I LOVED the little story he tried to tell his shitty son and I LOVED Noah's reaction even though an asshat like Noah isn't really going to grow from it, is he?

 

It's so poignant to watch this "love story" between two self involved assholes who really can't seem to see how much damage they're causing nor care even if they did.

 

Thing is, I really don't think they see each other as actual human beings. Noah wants Allison to be The Muse (how horrible, really. Not a person who lost her son to drowning and not only did he try to drag her into the pool but he made that "why do they have to grow up comment" last week.) and damaged Allison sees Noah as a chance to forget all that life with Cole wouldn't let her.

 

The scene in Helen's shop and the hair salon later had me cringing so hard. Part of me wished she could have slowed things down with Max but given it a go at her speed yet I totally get why she'd opt to cut it off and get wasted instead. 

I even felt a twinge of sympathy for her mom tonight.

[SlackerInc]

A couple random notes:

 

Oh, to be a fly on the wall in the writers' room when the "queefing" line was suggested.  That had to be pandemonium!  I'm thinking that has to be a first for major league TV.

 

That Lucinda Williams song was awesome.  I used to listen to her a lot ten or fifteen years ago, but I haven't kept up with her the past few years except to occasionally hear one of the songs I already knew.  I knew this one was by her right off, but I assumed it was from a more recent album.  Turns out it's from way back in '88!  Wow, okay, cool.

[Quiche]

I liked tonight's episode better than last week's.

Poor Helen – not!  Actually, she's the one making the situation more difficult for children because she's the one turning it into a custody fight.

I enjoyed seeing her get her comeuppance.  Her wanting to keep the children away from Allison is just pure spite and jealousy.

I hated Noah's father – he's a creep.  Say what you have to say and say it out clear.  I hate people who play games.  And what business is it of the sister-in-law?  It's none of her business.

I don't blame Allison for insisting on her place in Noah's life.  She did give up things for him, such as Cole and her home.  It's crappy of Noah to shunt her side now.  And he's just doing it to win the children from Helen, but you don't win them that way.

I did enjoy Helen in both halves of the story tonight.  I'm glad she was dragged down a peg or two.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Quiche

[Irlandesa]

I thought Max was thoughtful in his own oblivious way remembering Helen's court date, freeing up some time to spend with her, bringing her flowers and tickets for a trip.  Bummer for him that Helen was never really into it.

I liked Max more tonight than I did the first time we saw him but I think he handled that break up badly in saying no one was good enough for her.  He wasn't actually seeing Helen, he was seeing the fantasy he has wanted since college.  This Helen is a mess.  She is barely keeping her head above water.  She is still trying to figure out how it all happened and how it went wrong.  

 

Max wants her in an emotional place she is nowhere near being. 

 

Say what you have to say and say it out clear.  I hate people who play games.  And what business is it of the sister-in-law?  It's none of her business.

I think Noah's father was perfectly clear.  He had the opportunity to cheat when things were not ideal in his marriage, with his wife's full approval, and he didn't.  He was slapping down his son's choices.  As for the woman in the kitchen, I believe it was Noah's sister.  She was just a sister trying to give her brother good advice.  She was clearly not on Helen's side.  She was on the side of her nieces and nephews and she's right, Noah's choice has thrown them for a loop.  Taking them out of their comfortable home to live in a two bedroom apartment would do nothing to help their relationship with their father.

 

As an aside, I love Richard Schiff. I do.  But I hate when shows play fast and loose with lawyer specialties.  I'd be happy to be proven wrong but a high powered lawyer like that would be either a family lawyer, a corporate lawyer or a criminal lawyer.  If he were a criminal attorney, he'd be recommending an attorney who focused in divorce instead of trying to argue her case.  If he were a family lawyer, he'd be recommending a criminal attorney. And if he were corporate, he wouldn't be handling either of the cases.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Irlandesa

[Quiche]

 

I think Noah's father was perfectly clear.  He had the opportunity to cheat when things were not ideal in his marriage, with his wife's full approval, and he didn't.  He was slapping down his son's choices.  As for the woman in the kitchen, I believe it was Noah's sister.  She was just a sister trying to give her brother good advice.  She was clearly not on Helen's side.  She was on the side of her nieces and nephews and she's right, Noah's choice has thrown them for a loop.  Taking them out of their comfortable home to live in a two bedroom apartment would do nothing to help their relationship with their father.

 

It is neither the fathers nor the sisters place to tell Noah what to do.

What Noah says he's thinking of doing the same day of a nasty court hearing is not what he will necessarily do.  The sister has no say.  She's not an understanding person, nor a perceptive person.  She is a know it all, and they are the worst kind of family members.

As for the father, I say it again – he's a creep.  His choice doesn't have to be his son's choice.  The man does not look like a happy type of man and he doesn't come off as a good father.  So in my opinion – he is not entitled to an opinion, especially when it's entirely judgmental.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Quiche

[yourmomiseasy]

One more thing I forgot to mention, was I just imagining things, or was Helen not the only parent driving that horrible brood around while intoxicated?  It seems like self-righteous Noah threw a few back at his sister's house before storming off like a baby.  I doubt he sat out in the car with his asshole children waiting to sober up before driving.

[JenE4]

So now we know why Allison doesn't like the lawyer--he's the one who pressed that they couldn't live together.

I thought it was interesting to see more of Noah's family. I recall his mother dying when he was a teen I think, but I was also under the impression that he had no family. But now it makes a little more sense why he's not recognizing that Allison is distant and cold. His father is the same way, and oftentimes people choose to repeat dynamics they had with their parents in an attempt to fix that part in their partner that they couldn't fix in their parent.

I'm sure the debate from the last thread will continue that she does care/know him because she showed up with beer, tried to not let his kid die from appendicitis or something, and ordered him a turkey burger. But she also just launched into their happily ever after apartment without even asking about court, insisted he just give up his kids so they can play house, and just showed up with beer before even knowing Martin was finally okay--again taking him away from his kids when he was in crisis mode caring for them. It's not like she showed up with something that could have helped Martin--instead come outside where your kids don't know where you are and get drunk.

Mirroring--to a much lesser extent--Helen's story. Of course she was MUCH worse shape, but at the same time, she thought she wasn't watching the kids at all. And with the line, why can't I fuck up just once, I think they were illustrating how overwhelmed she is. Frankly, it might be best for Helen, too, to share custody and have some down time so she doesn't have to back a lifetime of Mama's Day Off in one day, but I think she's too much of a control freak to trust Noah. I think the writers specifically had grandma and Whitney out of town, grandpa off with his "paramour," Max in a fight, and Helen mentioning to the hairdresser that she has no friends left to specifically explain why she jumped in that car instead of calling someone else to get the kids.

I liked how in Helen's memory it was just a little yellow bump on Stacy's head, but Noah had her gushing blood with a huge bandage and a butterfly bandage and potentially needing stitches.

Edited October 26, 2015 by JenE4

[cardigirl]

I love the acting in this series. Tonight was great, poor Helen. It's my understanding that people going through divorces are super stressed (of course) and therefore much more likely to be involved in auto accidents, so her spiraling out of control seemed about right to me. Add that to the fact (according to her recollection) that Noah was going come after the rest of her life (i.e. the house, the money) and that her high-priced lawyer was acting idiotic in court, and that she couldn't depend on Mom and Dad anymore, and that she had realized that moving on with Max was not going make it all better, she was self-medicating to try to cope. Making the really poor decision to pick the kids up herself was hard to watch, and the younger son seemed like such a jerk (but again this is her recollecton) that I was all like, yeah, give Noah full custody for a year. Would serve him and Alison right.

My mom always said that if my dad ever left her, he was going to have to take all 5 kids with him. Joking, but she had a point. Why does the mom end up being the one who has to remain stable? Helen is just now realizing that Noah leaving is not a momentary blip in her life, but will require a complete makeover. In the end she may end up in a better place than she thought her marriage was, but for now, she just can't see it. She is in so much pain, fighting through her grief.

As for fighting about whether or not Noah should be allowed to live with Alison, well, I get why Helen wants this. She is still trying to control things and feels this gives her a measure of control. Rightly or wrongly, she is still trying to protect her family from the interloper (as she views Allison). These tactics usually don't work, and cause lots of harm to the children and hopefully Helen will see this soon enough. I loved that Noah's own sister was trying to point out to him that fighting Helen for full custody of the kids as an FU to Helen was not being a good dad and was not going to earn him any brownie points. Not because she liked Helen particularly, but because she knew her brother having full custody would not be the best thing for those kids. Noah has not been putting the kids first for awhile now (that we've been shown).

Loved Noah's father and older son showing what they thought of Noah's actions. They have every right to express those feelings. And this is from Noah's recollection, so perhaps he is remembering them as being more harsh with him than they were. When he first showed up at the accident and the kids were all "Yay, Daddy" he was portraying himself as the rescuer from their mother. He knew what was best for them, etc. But then, he got to the house and saw that maybe Helen was involved with someone, and he got upset to the point of deciding he'd take the kids and go to his sister's. I'm hoping Noah is carrying a fair amount of guilt about what he is doing, has done, etc. He knows that most people see him as the guy who left his great wife and kids for a much younger woman. When Helen screws up, for a moment he feels like maybe he's not the worst human being ever. Or maybe not as bad as Helen has been telling him he is, and so he gleefully tells his sister that now that Helen screwed up, he can sue for custody. It's sad, but in a lot of divorces, this type of pain point is used to put pressure on the settlement. I'm certain he's seeing this as a way to get more of a settlement out of Helen. Give me money and you get a custody arrangement you can live with. And Helen was using the fact that he was living 60 miles away, with his girlfriend, as not having the kids' best interests at heart. Give up your girlfriend, and you can have shared custody. Etc.

My sympathies still lie with Helen, for the moment. I understand her pain. Noah gets to leave, gets "the love of a generation," and gets to keep his kids and gets some money. Does not seem fair.

[RedInk]

Yikes. I hate seeing anyone embarrassed or shamed, and I barely made it through this episode. I think I only made it through Helen's scenes because they didn't ring true for me & it took me out of the situation. IMO, it wasn't just out of character, it was overwrought and cliched and played like a montage in a TV movie. Did anyone really need that mirror reflection of her mother to drive home the point that she feels old, unattractive, alone? After watching the drunken singing, sloshing, stumbling around, checking out the body in a full length mirror and plucking out grey hairs/examining wrinkles. Worse was seeing how little Noah considers his children the whole episode, finally jerking them away from the cousins they rarely see when the adults dare insinuate they're not entirely thrilled with his plans to further damage his family. And does he have no recollection of the argument with Helen about what's-his-name's stomach problems? I was so hoping he would read the card from Max! I want Noah to lose custody, suffer public humiliation and go to jail for a crime he didn't commit...that's the depth of my hate!

Edited October 26, 2015 by RedInk

[wallofsound]

I also laughed out loud when Noah spastically gathered the kids and hightailed it out of his sister's house after hearing something he didn't like. She was right on with her spoiled brat remark. He can't hear any criticism whatsoever without reacting like a child.

I completely agree that the kids are unlikeable (at least 3 out of 4 of them are), but if one of my siblings or my grown child had an affair that that ended their marriage and turned my nieces/nephews/grandchildrens lives upside down, then I would be furious at them. Their choices prior to having children would be unconditionally supported, but after kids it's a totally different story. I don't know how anyone in Noah's family can even look at him. Helens a snob, the grandmother is a witch and the kids are brats, but he is somehow the much bigger asshole in this story.

[Milburn Stone]

It's so poignant to watch this "love story" between two self involved assholes who really can't seem to see how much damage they're causing nor care even if they did.

 

Thing is, I really don't think they see each other as actual human beings. Noah wants Allison to be The Muse (how horrible, really. Not a person who lost her son to drowning and not only did he try to drag her into the pool but he made that "why do they have to grow up comment" last week.) and damaged Allison sees Noah as a chance to forget all that life with Cole wouldn't let her.

 

I can sign on to most of your description. The only thing I don't sign on to is the supposition that we're supposed to feel any differently about Noah and Allison than we do.

 

I don't see the show trying to make us care about Noah and Allison, or buy into a "love story" between them, or regard them as heroes or admirable in any way. I see the show depicting two human beings whose deficits have driven them into an increasingly effed up situation which is effing up the lives of all who are around them. The thing that some viewers seem to find angrifying about Noah and Allison, I find fascinating. The only thing the show asks of us is to accept Noah and Allison as human beings. Among the things the show is about, a big one is the consequences of their choices.

 

It's like an extended film noir in many ways.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Milburn Stone

[GeminiDancer]

Yeah, Helen's POV was very hard to watch. The more she kept talking to her hairdresser, the more I said "Girl, no!" Pot edibles are no joke. Last time I had one, even in the best of mindsets, I got paranoid that I was going to fall off the speakers (long story) and derail my life due to lack of insurance. Naturally, taking one when you're not in the best mental or emotional state is just going to exacerbate the issue.

 

Nice to see that everyone around Noah sees him as an asshole too. It's so obvious that he does not want to be a father to his kids at all. I think he would gladly ditch them in favor of having the one with Alison. I was actually really scared that Noah was going to be violent towards Trevor in the trampoline.

[wallofsound]

I was waiting for accident on the trampoline as well. I thought Noah's weight from stomping around would send Trevor flying over the netting on the side. A bit extreme, but Noah was being such an ass that I wanted a horrible consequence for him.

[grumpypanda]

It is neither the fathers nor the sisters place to tell Noah what to do.

What Noah says he's thinking of doing the same day of a nasty court hearing is not what he will necessarily do. The sister has no say. She's not an understanding person, nor a perceptive person. She is a know it all, and they are the worst kind of family members.

As for the father, I say it again – he's a creep. His choice doesn't have to be his son's choice. The man does not look like a happy type of man and he doesn't come off as a good father. So in my opinion – he is not entitled to an opinion, especially when it's entirely judgmental.

It's interesting how we all view these characters in a completely different way. I didn't think his sister was being judgmental trying to tell Noah what to do. It's obvious that she didn't really like Helen but she realizes that Helen is a good mother and yanking the kids away from her will end up hurting the kids more in the end. I don't recall her telling Noah that he should dump his mistress and get back with Helen. I think she was acting like a concerned aunt that was worried about her nieces and nephews. Plus she knows her brother and knows that he isn't really up for the challenge of raising four damaged kids. Of course she has no say in his actual decisions but it's normal for a sibling to voice their opinion.

She did open her home up to Noah and his kids at the last minute and seemed happy to have them there. I think Noah was acting like a big baby stomping away when he was told something that he didn't like. I think deep down he knows that his sister is right. It was also a dick move for him to drag his kids out of there when he knew they were having a good time especially after having such a traumatizing day.

Edited October 26, 2015 by grumpypanda

[Empress1]

I knew Helen's store wasn't making any money. And yeah, bleach + hours = bald, not fried. Also, I can totally believe that Helen has no real friends - I kind of chuckled when her (very pretty!) hairdresser was like "Uh huh, sure, friends. Tilt your head."

 

I liked Max in this scene - bringing flowers, remembering court, trying to whisk her away to Buenos Aires (I'll go!) but then when he got so butthurt over the breakup, I was like "Yeah, done with you."

 

I agree with y'all that Helen and Noah should be arguing over who gets custody - but the opposite way. "You take them!" "No, YOU take them!" They raised horrible children, except the youngest. Horrible. Whitney in particular needs her ass kicked two good times. I also agree that while I enjoy the lawyer, lawyers don't generalize like that, particularly the ones that are as high-powered as he's supposed to be.

 

I found the scene with Jennifer Esposito (who I like) very interesting, as I have a younger brother. Neither of us is married or have kids, but one of the best things about our close relationship is that we give it to each other straight. Noah did ask "why not?" about his getting full custody, and she answered the question. I thought Noah's father was being judgmental - "See, I could have cheated with permission and I still didn't," but I didn't see that from his sister. It seemed to me that she didn't like Helen (I totally believe that Helen made a face at drinking less expensive wine in a modest Jersey home), but she and her husband and their kids loved Helen and Noah's kids, and she loves her brother but sees him and the situation clearly. Loving someone has never meant refusing to acknowledge their flaws - it means loving their flaws as well as their strengths.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Empress1

[Boundary]

It was clear when Noah was talking with his sister that the only reason he wants full custody is to stick it to Helen.  And he seems to have no idea how much work it is to take care of children full time.

 

I think this is spot on. I think we all know where I stand, I'm probably the one person who defends Noah the most but his sister was correct in her assessment. However, she went too far by suggesting he doesn't want the kids at all and she was overly judgemental. It seems everyone in Noah's life (excluding Max, ironically) is too judgemental of his actions (which is no surprise) but they are also not patient enough with him to sort out his life. It was Helen who instigated divorce proceedings in court because she heard about Alison, which brought on all this adversarial atmosphere. He also doesn't yet have his own place (he couldn't possibly have slept in the brownstone after being kicked out like a dog), so when he reasonably asks his sister for help, after Helen's shenanigans, he still somehow found himself on the defensive about Alison. People in his life simply refuse to accept his choice.

 

If it's concern for the kids, then give the man space to sort out acceptable living conditions for them. His advance shows that his book has potential, at least in his publisher's view. So as his sister, she shouldn't have gone after his throat like that, which seems typical if this was why he didn't visit much. But trying get full time custody was never going to work out well for him and the kids, so she was right to point this out to him. A better strategy would be to offer a fig leaf to Helen, in return for allowing Alison's presence in some way. The kids are a nightmare but they are still his kids and for his sister to suggest that he privately wants to give them up must have been galling (especially after being forced to kick Alison out for their sakes). His reaction, though overly dramatic, I suspect was caused by years of being isolated from his father/sister on one side and in-laws on the other. The more I learn about Noah the more I understand why Dominic West plays him as such a tightly wound guy.

 

I'm sure the debate from the last thread will continue that she does care/know him because she showed up with beer, tried to not let his kid die from appendicitis or something, and ordered him a turkey burger. But she also just launched into their happily ever after apartment without even asking about court, insisted he just give up his kids so they can play house, and just showed up with beer before even knowing Martin was finally okay--again taking him away from his kids when he was in crisis mode caring for them. It's not like she showed up with something that could have helped Martin--instead come outside where your kids don't know where you are and get drunk.

 

 

This can be read both ways I think. One way is to be cynical about it, showing up with a beer when the guy clearly has a family emergency shows she doesn't get it and is out her depth. Another way is to see it as empathy: a six pack can hardly get him drunk and it is nothing but a gesture that she's there for support. Alison has to straddle a very fine line - she has to accommodate suspicion from people in Noah's life but at the same time stake out some territory for herself in his life. It was fascinating seeing her tentatively suggest he give up his kids (he won't). This is going to be a long road for her.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Boundary

[RedInk]

Noah is a child. His bad day is all of his own making, and his choices are destroying his family. His son is physically ill from stress, his wife is falling apart, his girlfriend is effectively homeless. How nice of Allison to show up to cheer him up. What an angel! Let me tell you how mean my family was to me today!

[Maire]

When Helen was contemplating the pot lozenge I said out loud, "At least break it in half!"

Also Lucinda Williams is perfect break up music.

[cardigirl]

I think this is spot on. I think we all know where I stand, I'm probably the one person who defends Noah the most but his sister was correct in her assessment. However, she went too far by suggesting he doesn't want the kids at all and she was overly judgemental. It seems everyone in Noah's life (excluding Max, ironically) is too judgemental of his actions (which is no surprise) but they are also not patient enough with him to sort out his life.

 

My point would be, how long does Noah get to "sort out his life" at this point.  IF, and I think this is a BIG IF, he wants to be as full-time a father as possible, he would have tried to sort that out before Helen's meltdown.

The timeline confuses me.  I need to go back and view season 1, but when Noah was writing his novel after being on probation from his teaching position, where was he living then?  And the montage of women we saw him with during his initial separation from Helen, where was he living then?  And how involved was he with the children then?

 

He has had time to figure this out, if it is a priority with him.  

 

And the sister and father being harsh with him is from his own recollection.  He knows that they don't like what he did, but rather than explain his point of view, he runs and takes the kids and goes to a motel. 

 

The one credit I am willing to give him is that whenever the kids said "mom is in jail," he kept trying to correct them and not make it seem as big a problem.  He kept telling them that she would be home tomorrow. 

[GeminiDancer]

Another thing to think about is that Noah may be interpreting his sister's words as him not wanting his kids at all, though it may not be what she actually said. That being said, everything about his demeanor shows that he doesn't want those kids.

[izabella]

If I'm remembering correctly, his sister became appalled when he was talking about getting full custody, both because the kids had been through so much with him LEAVING them in the first place and now he wants to take them from their mother (who did NOT leave them), and because she questioned his ability to care for the kids full time.

 

Both are reasonable points of view, and neither of those views are about him not wanting his kids at all.  It's when he started going on about Allison and their lurve and how he wanted to live with her, that the sister was all, priorities, dude.

[truthaboutluv]

I loved how even when biased through Noah's memory his sister made complete sense in everything she said when calling him out on being a selfish asshole and he just didn't get it.  Poor Noah, the world just doesn't get how special his great love is.

 

 

That's what always gets me about Noah. That even in his own memories, no one seems to like him other than Alison. I loved his sister and cheered every single thing she said, especially when she called him a "fucking brat" because he was stomping off and confusing the children even more because she dared to give him a dose of brutal honesty. Because never has that term been more appropriate. 

 

"Wah poor me, I've never gotten anything for myself because I went along with everything mean, awful Helen wanted for 20 years. Wah, why can't I live with my girlfriend of a few months I was fucking while still married and not even fully divorced yet. The whole world is against me but yeah Helen screwed up so I'm suddenly daddy of the year and should get full custody even if I couldn't be arsed to care about these kids for months and walked away from one of them after a gun was pointed at her. Wah, wah why won't anyone be on my side." Dude is 46 years old and is like a giant man-child. I swear Noah's so unlikable that it's even making the actor unattractive. 

 

And what business is it of the sister-in-law?  It's none of her business.

 

 

Noah shared what was going on with her. And more than once, based on her body language, she made it clear that she thought it best to just not say anything. Noah pushed and told her to say what she wanted to say and so she did. She gave him an honest opinion and frankly honest truth that his bratty, man-child self couldn't handle and so he did what a brat would do and stomped off. Because how dare she not agree that it is just a great idea for him to try and get full custody of four kids from their mother. Four kids that he's barely been present for since he started fucking Alison.

 

And yeah Helen may be spiteful about Alison but Noah was just as spiteful in his even considering that full custody crap. That's what his sister was saying to him. That he's full of shit if he thinks ANYONE believes he genuinely wants full 24 hour custody of four children - especially when he's busy wanting to create his new fantasy with his new girlfriend. This is the man who when leaving Helen said he didn't want "this life..." But he just saw a chance to stick it to Helen, enjoying her fuck up and his sister saw right through that shit and told him so. But god forbid people don't agree with Noah then they're just mean and unfair to him. Idiot...

 

I don't blame Allison for insisting on her place in Noah's life.  She did give up things for him, such as Cole and her home.  It's crappy of Noah to shunt her side now.  And he's just doing it to win the children from Helen, but you don't win them that way.

 

 

He didn't shunt her aside willingly. Much as I'm no fan of Noah, the judge made a legal order that Alison was to be kept from the children. And much as some don't feel sorry for Helen and I agree she made some bad choices this episode that put her in the position she was in (and I liked that in her memory, she owned it. She made the decision to drink and take that drug), boo-freaking-hoo about Alison giving up so much and ending up where she's at in Noah's life. 

 

Gee, maybe not go pursue a relationship with a guy with a WIFE and FOUR children. Yeah it what world was that NOT going to be messy and complicated? So now she's faced with the reality that the woman whose husband she fucked hates her guts and is petty and spiteful and it means this guy now may be stuck having to choose between her and his kids and oops, she may not be his first choice. Oh the tragedy... Doesn't matter though, this is Noah, hardly father of the year, I'm sure she'll have him all to herself since he is finally "living for himself damn it, and why should he apologize for that?"

 

I find it interesting how Noah remembers Alison at that restaurant. She is needy and essentially states that she just doesn't want to be alone and then flat out suggests he gives up parental rights to Helen if it means they get the life they want. Essentially telling him to choose her over his kids. Again, I'm always fascinated how Alison comes across in Noah's memories versus hers.

 

I liked Max more tonight than I did the first time we saw him but I think he handled that break up badly in saying no one was good enough for her.  He wasn't actually seeing Helen, he was seeing the fantasy he has wanted since college.  This Helen is a mess.  She is barely keeping her head above water.  She is still trying to figure out how it all happened and how it went wrong.

 

 

Max was full of shit. Sorry dude, I can't have much sympathy for you pursuing a woman fresh out of a 20 year marriage which let's face it, as she rightly pointed out to him, she didn't leave or want out of. Noah left her. Helen was reeling and in a very emotional place and Max should have known she was nowhere near ready for any serious relationship. And I didn't blame her for feeling suffocated and being "it's too much" with the surprise trip and all that. And I thought she tried to be as nice as possible in ending things. 

 

When he first showed up at the accident and the kids were all "Yay, Daddy" he was portraying himself as the rescuer from their mother. He knew what was best for them, etc.

 

 

 

What I loved is that by the end of Noah's segment it showed that as smug as he was about Helen screwing up for once, even spouting that bullshit for a second about full custody, it was clear how hard dealing with these kids on one's own is and unlike him, Helen doesn't get to check in and check out. A few hours and he had the kids going from one home to another, ending up in a crappy motel, Martin's stress stomach issues were back, annoying Trevor refused to get off the trampoline and he's having to chase him like a nut, Martin calls him an asshole and a dick, etc. Welcome to parenthood Noah. 

Edited October 26, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[taragel]

Was that some retcon on Noah's background right there? Why would he have had to give up his own life to take care of his mom (as I'm pretty sure he established in S1) if he had a sister and a father who were around? In fact, Dad's story made it seem like Noah wasn't all that attuned to things back then. (Not that he should/would know about his mom setting his dad up with someone, but still...) I'm calling some bullshit there. Either he greatly exaggerated the situation to Allison or the writers didn't remember what they said previously...

 

I did think this was actually the first episode in eons where Noah wasn't a complete failure with the kids. I mean yeah, he didn't do a good job necessarily, but he did actually try to take care of them for the first time in I don't know how long. I wonder what is up with Martin's stomach pains. Can they really be completely psychosomatic or are we going to find out he has some kind of stomach tumor at the end of the season? 

 

I liked grandma's new hair. The red was much more flattering than the blonde. I liked Maura Tierney this episode (and I'm usually pretty neutral on her) too. It was nice to see her play a different side of Helen (stoned out of her gourd Helen). 

[izabella]

Was that some retcon on Noah's background right there? Why would he have had to give up his own life to take care of his mom (as I'm pretty sure he established in S1) if he had a sister and a father who were around? In fact, Dad's story made it seem like Noah wasn't all that attuned to things back then. (Not that he should/would know about his mom setting his dad up with someone, but still...) I'm calling some bullshit there. Either he greatly exaggerated the situation to Allison or the writers didn't remember what they said previously...

 

I'm placing my bet on Noah having greatly exaggerated "giving up his own life" to take care of his mom.  Remember, he made himself the hero in saving his child from choking in the restaurant.  And probably sees himself the hero right now in taking care of his kids while mom is in jail.

Edited October 26, 2015 by izabella

[Artsda]

Noah came out of his memory with the judge is bias against him and Helen came out of hers with the judge was against her. Interesting they both think the judge is after them. 

 

I really don't feel like "poor Helen" in this episode at all. She got drunk and high, then drove through Manhattan where she could have hit or killed people then picked up her children and could have seriously hurt them. Reversing like that with the kids unbuckled, she could have killed them or a pedestrian behind her. She gets no sympathy or poor Helen for her behavior. Noah cheating on her, isn't illegal or can kill someone, what Helen did could. She's worse than him for her behavior this episode.

 

I loved Noah's sister, she made it known that she wasn't a Helen fan. She thought she was a snob, but she still didn't think Noah was taking the kids for the right reasons. He was doing it to spite Helen and not caring about the children at all. Which he proved 2 seconds later by stomping around and grabbing the kids from their few minutes of relief playing in the yard they had after that crazy day. He didn't care at all about them, what they wanted or if they were laughing and playing after that awful day. It was all about Noah's not hearing what he likes so he grabs the kids and storms out of there to go to a motel in NJ. 

 

The kids would be better with Noah's sister. 

[attica]

The kids would be better with Noah's sister.

 

Except they'd be in New Jersey....

 

[/rimshot]

[briochetwist]

 

I wonder what is up with Martin's stomach pains. Can they really be completely psychosomatic or are we going to find out he has some kind of stomach tumor at the end of the season? 

 

I'm pretty sure that his stomach pains are caused by anxiety and stress.  It was back in another episode that Helen had arranged an appointment with a psychiatrist for him, but Noah was pissed off about it because he wanted him to go to a baseball game instead. The fact that Noah doesn't recognize that he's contributed to this and that his son is completely stressed out is yet another reason he shouldn't be caring for these kids.  Selfish asshole.

[briochetwist]

I don't blame Allison for insisting on her place in Noah's life.  She did give up things for him, such as Cole and her home.  It's crappy of Noah to shunt her side now.

She gave up Cole and her home?  So, having an affair and walking out on her husband means she's 'earned' a place with Noah?  And giving up her 'home'?  Sorry, I don't buy this.  I do believe that Allison was unhappy with Cole, but I also believe that with Noah she sees a way out.  In him, she sees a successful older man with money, she doesn't have to be a waitress and live in a shitty house anymore.  Noah is her chance for a better life.

Edited October 26, 2015 by briochetwist

[Boundary]

That's what always gets me about Noah. That even in his own memories, no one seems to like him other than Alison. 

...

And much as some don't feel sorry for Helen and I agree she made some bad choices this episode that put her in the position she was in (and I liked that in her memory, she owned it. She made the decision to drink and take that drug), 

 

How is it that when Helen makes mistakes, she "owns" it in her POV  and it's likeable and yet when the same thing happens to Noah it is proof of how shitty he is? Why are the two subjected to different standards? This is not a rhetorical question, I really want to understand. As for me, I think Helen clearly made a mistake and doesn't deserve the custody punishment Noah was contemplating. Noah has had his fair share of mistakes, for some of which I've given him the benefit of the doubt too. Come to think of it, Alison and Cole too. I try to subject them to a roughly similar (forgiving) standard.

[GeminiDancer]

 I wonder what is up with Martin's stomach pains. Can they really be completely psychosomatic or are we going to find out he has some kind of stomach tumor at the end of the season? 

 

Chances are he has IBS-C, which is stress-related.

[cardigirl]

How is it that when Helen makes mistakes, she "owns" it in her POV  and it's likeable and yet when the same thing happens to Noah it is proof of how shitty he is? Why are the two subjected to different standards? This is not a rhetorical question, I really want to understand. As for me, I think Helen clearly made a mistake and doesn't deserve the custody punishment Noah was contemplating. Noah has had his fair share of mistakes, for some of which I've given him the benefit of the doubt too. Come to think of it, Alison and Cole too. I try to subject them to a roughly similar (forgiving) standard.

Well, Helen's point of view didn't shy away from her looking extremely foolish, or her scattered thinking.  In Noah's POV, everyone else is being mean to him, even though he is being heroic.

[taragel]

I get that Martin's pains are stress-based but I'm wondering if it's leading up to something bigger, since it's a recurring motif. A diagnosis of IBS wouldn't be all that dramatic or interesting. Something has to happen with these pains is my guess. Esp. since Alison went through the steps of trying to semi-diagnose him.

[GeminiDancer]

This is mere speculation, but I think that's all it is. IBS really sucks and it is that darn painful, and Martin seems to be the type to have such physical response to emotional triggers. Then again, it might be a plot device to get Alison to worm her way into his kids' lives.

 

 

How is it that when Helen makes mistakes, she "owns" it in her POV  and it's likeable and yet when the same thing happens to Noah it is proof of how shitty he is? Why are the two subjected to different standards?

It's because we're seeing Helen's reaction to Noah's actions. She didn't ask for any of this to happen, while Noah made the choice to uproot his family the way he did.

[briochetwist]

I get that Martin's pains are stress-based but I'm wondering if it's leading up to something bigger, since it's a recurring motif. A diagnosis of IBS wouldn't be all that dramatic or interesting. Something has to happen with these pains is my guess. Esp. since Alison went through the steps of trying to semi-diagnose him.

Don't forget about the anxiety disorder that's clearly along for the ride.  That is a big deal.  That is a huge deal! 

 

I think this was written in to show the direct affect that Noah's actions have had on the children.  

Edited October 26, 2015 by briochetwist

[Quiche]

That's what always gets me about Noah. That even in his own memories, no one seems to like him other than Alison. I loved his sister and cheered every single thing she said, especially when she called him a "fucking brat" because he was stomping off and confusing the children even more because she dared to give him a dose of brutal honesty. Because never has that term been more appropriate. 

 

"Wah poor me, I've never gotten anything for myself because I went along with everything mean, awful Helen wanted for 20 years. Wah, why can't I live with my girlfriend of a few months I was fucking while still married and not even fully divorced yet. The whole world is against me but yeah Helen screwed up so I'm suddenly daddy of the year and should get full custody even if I couldn't be arsed to care about these kids for months and walked away from one of them after a gun was pointed at her. Wah, wah why won't anyone be on my side." Dude is 46 years old and is like a giant man-child. I swear Noah's so unlikable that it's even making the actor unattractive. 

 

 

Noah shared what was going on with her. And more than once, based on her body language, she made it clear that she thought it best to just not say anything. Noah pushed and told her to say what she wanted to say and so she did. She gave him an honest opinion and frankly honest truth that his bratty, man-child self couldn't handle and so he did what a brat would do and stomped off. Because how dare she not agree that it is just a great idea for him to try and get full custody of four kids from their mother. Four kids that he's barely been present for since he started fucking Alison.

 

And yeah Helen may be spiteful about Alison but Noah was just as spiteful in his even considering that full custody crap. That's what his sister was saying to him. That he's full of shit if he thinks ANYONE believes he genuinely wants full 24 hour custody of four children - especially when he's busy wanting to create his new fantasy with his new girlfriend. This is the man who when leaving Helen said he didn't want "this life..." But he just saw a chance to stick it to Helen, enjoying her fuck up and his sister saw right through that shit and told him so. But god forbid people don't agree with Noah then they're just mean and unfair to him. Idiot...

 

 

He didn't shunt her aside willingly. Much as I'm no fan of Noah, the judge made a legal order that Alison was to be kept from the children. And much as some don't feel sorry for Helen and I agree she made some bad choices this episode that put her in the position she was in (and I liked that in her memory, she owned it. She made the decision to drink and take that drug), boo-freaking-hoo about Alison giving up so much and ending up where she's at in Noah's life. 

 

Gee, maybe not go pursue a relationship with a guy with a WIFE and FOUR children. Yeah it what world was that NOT going to be messy and complicated? So now she's faced with the reality that the woman whose husband she fucked hates her guts and is petty and spiteful and it means this guy now may be stuck having to choose between her and his kids and oops, she may not be his first choice. Oh the tragedy... Doesn't matter though, this is Noah, hardly father of the year, I'm sure she'll have him all to herself since he is finally "living for himself damn it, and why should he apologize for that?"

 

I find it interesting how Noah remembers Alison at that restaurant. She is needy and essentially states that she just doesn't want to be alone and then flat out suggests he gives up parental rights to Helen if it means they get the life they want. Essentially telling him to choose her over his kids. Again, I'm always fascinated how Alison comes across in Noah's memories versus hers.

 

 

Max was full of shit. Sorry dude, I can't have much sympathy for you pursuing a woman fresh out of a 20 year marriage which let's face it, as she rightly pointed out to him, she didn't leave or want out of. Noah left her. Helen was reeling and in a very emotional place and Max should have known she was nowhere near ready for any serious relationship. And I didn't blame her for feeling suffocated and being "it's too much" with the surprise trip and all that. And I thought she tried to be as nice as possible in ending things. 

 

 

What I loved is that by the end of Noah's segment it showed that as smug as he was about Helen screwing up for once, even spouting that bullshit for a second about full custody, it was clear how hard dealing with these kids on one's own is and unlike him, Helen doesn't get to check in and check out. A few hours and he had the kids going from one home to another, ending up in a crappy motel, Martin's stress stomach issues were back, annoying Trevor refused to get off the trampoline and he's having to chase him like a nut, Martin calls him an asshole and a dick, etc. Welcome to parenthood Noah. 

 

Let's not forget the fact that Helen was indeed high as a kite when she got behind the driver's seat with her children in the car.

 

Let's not forget that she backed up, not checking on her children, and as a result her little girl has a bruised bump on her head.  

 

How many times should that happen?

[OrientalAmish]

I got one word for y'all: PARAMOUR

Edited October 26, 2015 by OrientalAmish

[Palomar]

As for the father, I say it again – he's a creep.  His choice doesn't have to be his son's choice.  The man does not look like a happy type of man and he doesn't come off as a good father.

 

 

The same thing could be said about Noah! It's pretty natural for family members to give their advice especially when they see the kids hurting.  Of course he doesn't have to take it, but they have a right to their opinions. And he is the one who came to their house.  Does he expect them to be happy about the situation?

 

And, Allison, sorry sweetie, but this is the mess you decided for yourself....the fallout of getting involved with a married man with four children. I guess they really are inconvenient after all.

[jrlr]

This is mere speculation, but I think that's all it is. IBS really sucks and it is that darn painful, and Martin seems to be the type to have such physical response to emotional triggers. Then again, it might be a plot device to get Alison to worm her way into his kids' lives.

 

 

I doubt that Alison has any desire to worm her way into the kids' lives.  First of all, she's seen Whitney up close and personal, and who in their right mind would want to take that shitty little borderline into their home or heart?  Second, and I think this is more to the point: Alison - who is truly "starting over" from scratch probably wishes that Noah was as unencumbered by his former life as she is.  She will always carry the pain and grief over Gabriel's death, but Noah has four (or three if give Stacy a pass) living, breathing, spoiled rotten kids he has to deal with - and I don't believe for a moment that the supremely self-centered Noah really wants custody of the kids anyway.  

[Texasmom1970]

Even if she was drunk and stoned it did not make me like Helen less or like Noah and Allison one iota more. Don't get me wrong I am not condoning driving your kids around while shit faced. But asshat was drinking beer and whiskey before he drug the kids out of his sisters house when he got all pissy. Am glad to see what's his name gone, he was kind of stalker creepy with Helen.

His sister is so right Noah is a brat. A 46-year old self-absorbed man child who does not seem to notice or care what his actions do to his kids or anyone else. Not that people should never get divorced, but he thinks of just his needs. And when he does not get what he wants or when someone does not condone his behavior he throws a tantrum!

Bring on more Cole please, thank you!

Edited October 26, 2015 by Texasmom1970