The Annual Academy Awards - General Discussion

[CountryGirl]

I am really having a hard time wrapping my head around Will being more deserved of losing his Oscar because his actions took place on stage vs off. So because Roman Polanski didn't rape a child on stage, but behind closed doors where those types of actions usually take place for obvious reasons, then no action is necessary? I'm just trying to follow the logic here. 

But if we follow that argument, where is the outcry for Adrien Brody to lose his Best Actor Oscar after he assaulted Halle Berry right there on stage? 

Will was wrong in his actions but as far as him losing his Oscar, well, then he can get in line behind all the others, and add Adrien to that list (there are undoubtedly more). 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

I think the harshest outcome of whatever investigation the Academy is conducting would be Will losing his membership. They aren't going to revoke his Oscar because all anyone needs to say in response is one name: Roman Polanski. He fled the US to avoid going to prison for raping a child back in the 70s in favor of non-extradition France. Everyone in the industry knows what he did and why he fled and he still won an Oscar in 2003. The Academy didn't prevent his nomination, his win, and hasn't even considered revoking the award. 

My guess is that they may announce now that he's not going to get to present the Best Actress award next year.  A very minor penalty.

[Pickles Aplenty]

33 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I am really having a hard time wrapping my head around Will being more deserved of losing his Oscar because his actions took place on stage vs off. So because Roman Polanski didn't rape a child on stage, but behind closed doors where those types of actions usually take place for obvious reasons, then no action is necessary? I'm just trying to follow the logic here. 

But if we follow that argument, where is the outcry for Adrien Brody to lose his Best Actor Oscar after he assaulted Halle Berry right there on stage? 

Will was wrong in his actions but as far as him losing his Oscar, well, then he can get in line behind all the others, and add Adrien to that list (there are undoubtedly more). 

Agree with this, 100%.  It doesn't matter to me at all that far, FAR worse crimes were not televised.  Let Will keep his Oscar.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Pickles Aplenty

[SusanM]

10 minutes ago, deaja said:

My guess is that they may announce now that he's not going to get to present the Best Actress award next year.  A very minor penalty.

I'm hoping that they boot him out of the academy, ban him from attending future events and that he is can never be asked to be a presenter again.  Minimum consequences really I guess  but I think they will sting - and give a message that behaving badly at the awards ceremony does have some onsequences no matter who you are.

Edited March 29, 2022 by SusanM

[cinsays]

14 hours ago, susannah said:

Obviously she was asked. My point is that she seemed to be mentally incapacitated and didn't know what was going on, thusly not able to consent with clarity.

all i am saying is she seemed to enjoy being here and getting some love from the audience

[Ohiopirate02]

14 minutes ago, SusanM said:

I'm hoping that they boot him out of the academy, ban him from attending future events and that he is can never be asked to be a presenter again.  Minimum consequences really I guess  but I think they will sting - and give a message that behaving badly at the awards ceremony does have some onsequences no matter who you are.

I don't think they will go that far because then the Academy will have to look at booting out other members who have also behaved badly.  Looking at you Mel Gibson.

[mojoween]

As far as we know Will didn’t slap anyone while making “King Richard” and the award was for the filming that went on a year or so ago, so there really isn’t any reason for Will to lose the Oscar.  He *should* face consequences for what he did during a live, televised, ceremony, but the Oscar technically doesn’t have anything to do with that.  Even if we didn’t know yet, the accountants did know he already won it before he went slaphappy.

Edited March 29, 2022 by mojoween

[cinsays]

12 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

 

I thought the Judi Dench joke was a play on something Kim Kardashian said recently, juxtaposed with Dench’s actual history. And I thought it was very funny and not at all disrespectful (except maybe to KK). Did I misunderstand that whole thing?

yes, kim's cold comment about women not working hard enough

[cardigirl]

I have to say that the calls for rescinding Will Smith's award (which won't happen) seem valid to me. Trying to normalize Will's actions because it was a bad/lame/brilliant joke and no one deserves to have fun poked at them at an awards show is just ... ridiculous.  

If ANYBODY else in the world had walked up and ASSAULTED Chris Rock, that person would have been escorted from the venue and probably arrested. But it wasn't anybody else, it was Will Smith, and they all knew it was his night, so they left him alone. 

Kudos to Chris for not pressing charges, or ripping on him further. He recognized he was dealing with an unhinged mind. 

The Academy instituted a number of bylaws recently (2017) that should address his behavior.

From USAToday:

Quote

In its statement Monday, the Academy cited its bylaws for a variety of sanctions less severe than suspension or expulsion, including private or public reprimand, temporary or permanent loss of privileges, or "revocation of Academy awards or honors." 

I really doubt they'll revoke his award, but they certainly should revoke his membership. 

And, it doesn't matter what has happened before.  This happened in the present, in front of millions, and needs to be addressed with consequences that matter.  

[tv echo]

Ratings: Oscars Audience Rises Sharply From Last Year's All-Time Low
By Matt Webb Mitovich / March 28 2022
https://tvline.com/2022/03/28/oscar-ratings-rise-will-smith-slap-controversy-2022/  

Quote

Update: In the Nielsen fast nationals issued by ABC, Sunday night’s telecast drew 15.4 million total viewers, up 56 percent from last year’s early count; in the demo, the show up 68 percent, reporting a 3.2 rating thus far.

 

[PepSinger]

35 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

And, it doesn't matter what has happened before

Oh it absolutely *does* matter what has happened before. Will can have his award revoked when the men I listed a few pages back have theirs revoked, too. Until then, the Academy can get bent. You can’t pick and choose who you want to punish for bad behavior. The Academy made this mess themselves.

[cardigirl]

7 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

Oh it absolutely *does* matter what has happened before. Will can have his award revoked when the men I listed a few pages back have theirs revoked, too. Until then, the Academy can get bent. You can’t pick and choose who you want to punish for bad behavior. The Academy made this mess themselves.

Those bylaws went into effect during the "Metoo" movement and should be applied in this situation. 

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by cardigirl

[MaggieG]

I know everyone has been waiting with bated breath for my thoughts on the subject, so here they are: The joke may have been a bit lame but it's an awards show. The always have jokes where they poke fun at the nominees. Will and Jada have been in the industry long enough and have been to enough award shows over the years to know that. I can understand there was some history between the three of them and they probably wouldn't have found any jokes from Chris funny. Jada had every right to be offended and she handled it well by rolling her eyes. It all went wrong when Will got out of his seat. I'm just trying to wrap my head around what possessed him to that. He knows this is live. He knows it's being broadcast all over the world. Did he think they would cut to commercial? He could have easily sat there, looked angry and Chris Rock would have moved on and presented the award. Confront him later at the party when everyone is drunk and there are no cameras around. Or let Jada confront him since the joke was at her expense. 

Chris Rock is not at fault here. Will's reaction was all on Will. I don't feel bad for him for any consequences he may face after this. I do feel bad for him that on the night that was supposed to be the best night of his career, it'll be forever tainted by this. He went from rapper to tv star to movie star. He's had some flops over the years but he's proven that he can be a good actor and I feel he's paid his dues. I've always liked his work. And now he's won his Oscar but all everyone will talk about is the night he slapped Chris Rock. And he did that to himself. 

[Sarah 103]

@Misslindsey and @cheezewiz-I know three’s a crowd, but I can pull up a chair too? I don’t drink alcohol, but I’d love to enjoy a mocktail with you and bemoan the current state of movies.

I am not a fan of superhero movies because I find the fight/action scenes go on too long and I get bored. I know millions of people enjoy them and I don’t have a problem with superhero movies existing, but I hate the way they dominate the industry.

I wish the studios still made mid-budget movies. Those were great. They were the sweet spot in terms of movies that appealed to a wide audience, but also had the writing, acting, directing that might get Oscar nominations, assuring that most viewers probably had seen a few of the Oscar nominated movies.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, greekmom said:

Exactly my point. He made that off colour joke and no one bats an eye. Javier and Penelope did the laugh and Rock moved on to the Smiths.  If they were offended, it didn't show. Why was that joke ok? Because it didn't poke at some illness? Who knows what goes on in someone's bedroom.  

Just because no one got on stage and punched him doesn’t mean the joke was okay or that no one batted an eye. That joke was offensive (and not funny) and people have reacted. The default for celebrities at awards shows is to role with the punches that doesn’t mean they don’t care or others don’t care. 

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

I am really having a hard time wrapping my head around Will being more deserved of losing his Oscar because his actions took place on stage vs off. So because Roman Polanski didn't rape a child on stage, but behind closed doors where those types of actions usually take place for obvious reasons, then no action is necessary? I'm just trying to follow the logic here. 

But if we follow that argument, where is the outcry for Adrien Brody to lose his Best Actor Oscar after he assaulted Halle Berry right there on stage? 

Will was wrong in his actions but as far as him losing his Oscar, well, then he can get in line behind all the others, and add Adrien to that list (there are undoubtedly more). 

I don’t think Will should have the award take away but I also think it a misrepresentation to say that people are saying he is more deserving of losing his Oscar than Polanski. It happening on stage puts the Academy in a position where they have to act and some people feel losing the award is the correct action. Just because worse people have gotten away with worse doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be the correct action now. I really dislike the idea that the standard in the past has to stay the standard. Yes, if they did take away Will’s award (they won’t) they should also face calls to take away other awards.

[Sarahsmile416]

2 minutes ago, Dani said:

Just because no one got on stage and punched him doesn’t mean the joke was okay or that no one batted an eye. That joke was offensive (and not funny) and people have reacted. The default for celebrities at awards shows is to role with the punches that doesn’t mean they don’t care or others don’t care. 

I don’t think Will should have the award take away but I also think it a misrepresentation to say that people are saying he is more deserving of losing his Oscar than Polanski. It happening on stage puts the Academy in a position where they have to act and some people feel losing the award is the correct action. Just because worse people have gotten away with worse doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be the correct action now. I really dislike the idea that the standard in the past has to stay the standard. Yes, if they did take away Will’s award (they won’t) they should also face calls to take away other awards.

Correct.  I have a real hard time with the idea that Chris Rock shares no blame in this.   I’m sorry, but especially since he is especially aware of the sensitivity regarding black women’s hair, regardless if he knew about the alapecia, it was cruel.  Again, no person here is blameless and it bothers me just as much when people say that Chris Rock “deserved” to get punched.  That’s absolutely absurd.  That being said, the joke should never have been said and he should think twice about his “off the cuff” remarks if in fact that’s what it was.  

Both my daughters have disabilities, though neither one “looks” it and if someone made a remark I sure as hell would know better than to punch that person but I would let them know at some point that that type of joke is unacceptable and in the end THAt is what Will Smith should have done.  Full stop. 

[A.Ham]

On 3/28/2022 at 1:09 AM, Artsda said:

I hope they show up next year and the Academy gets Ricky Gervais. 

Have not finished reading the thread, but you beat me to it--the only way I would accept Will being invited back to the Oscars would be to have him sit there in listening to comedians roast him for a full five minutes (with a couple of strong security guards for good measure). Him needing to sit there smiling with his rage brewing inside might make his head explode.

I used to be a fan. No more. Glad I did not get around to buying his book I was planning to buy.

[Boofish]

Your reputation for 1000 years can be determined in 5 minutes.

Shout out to Chris Rock for not slapping 30 memories out of Wills corny ass.

[SusanM]

10 minutes ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

Again, no person here is blameless and it bothers me just as much when people say that Chris Rock “deserved” to get punched.  That’s absolutely absurd.  That being said, the joke should never have been said and he should think twice about his “off the cuff” remarks if in fact that’s what it was.  

Agreed,  The only positive thing I can say about Chris Rock is that he didn't respond in kind to Will Smith and make a bad situation 10 times worse.   

If I were in any position of power with the academy I'd be looking long and hard at all these comedians and their "jokes".  It is possible to be both funny and classy.  It's a crazy idea but it just might work.

[Ms Blue Jay]

10 hours ago, marybennet said:

The Schumer/Dunst/Plemons thing was scripted and was an instance of people having a sense of humor about themselves, participating in the joke.  If anything, it was Amy S making fun of herself in pretending she'd be so ignorant and rude as not to recognize Kirsten Dunst.

I'm shocked at how many tweets I read from people who are upset about this joke.   I'm a big Kirsten Dunst fan too but come on!!!!!  It was a joke!

10 hours ago, NotMySekrit2Tell said:

Could someone explain that bit to me like I'm 12? Because I didn't understand it. It wasn't funny; it was just weird and vague.

I was following a discussion on social media, and people who loved it said it was intended as some kind of payback moment? Like, these actors were going to know what it was like to be objectified and touched without consent, under the guise of something that is the price of taking part in the movie industry, and the woman (Regina) had the power. But then I was thinking, has Timothee Chalamet been accused of groping someone? Has Jason Momoa had a #metoo? Bradley Cooper? 

The only one of that bunch that I was aware of as "problematic" is Brolin, and his issue was alleged domestic violence (Diane Lane). So a "good for the goose" skit involving Brolin would be, I don't know, a woman running onto the stage and slapping him. 

Plus, THEY WERE IN ON THE JOKE. It was scripted. They knew their names were going to be called! 

This was just Regina Hall sexually harassing men.  It wasn't funny.

Never in years would I have predicted that I'd like Amy's hosting but NOT Regina's, but there you go.  (I knew I'd like Wanda.)

Edited March 29, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[CountryGirl]

8 minutes ago, Dani said:

Just because no one got on stage and punched him doesn’t mean the joke was okay or that no one batted an eye. That joke was offensive (and not funny) and people have reacted. The default for celebrities at awards shows is to role with the punches that doesn’t mean they don’t care or others don’t care. 

I don’t think Will should have the award take away but I also think it a misrepresentation to say that people are saying he is more deserving of losing his Oscar than Polanski. It happening on stage puts the Academy in a position where they have to act and some people feel losing the award is the correct action. Just because worse people have gotten away with worse doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be the correct action now. I really dislike the idea that the standard in the past has to stay the standard. Yes, if they did take away Will’s award (they won’t) they should also face calls to take away other awards.

Respectfully, I fail to see where I misrepresented anything when I am seeing comments, saying (direct quote) "it doesn't matter what happened before" or (paraphrasing) "those actions didn't happen on stage, during the ceremony like Will's assault (and to be clear, I am calling it what it was - an assault)" with the logical conclusion that only Will's should be addressed. When you read comment after comment in this regard, it is hardly a flex, much less a stretch, for that to be my takeaway. 

I think there should be actions, but that is for the Academy to decide. If one of the actions is to take away Will's Oscar (which I'm sure they won't, ultimately, but it has been brought up as a possibility), then my stance is that so should the Oscars of all those I've mentioned be stripped. The bottom line is that I keep the same energy and standards for all of those problematic winners, Will included. Whether I personally witnessed their actions or not, whether it was two days ago or two decades ago, makes no difference to me, a domestic violence and sexual abuse survivor.

[yowsah1]

2 hours ago, Pickles Aplenty said:

Agree with this, 100%.  It doesn't matter to me at all that far, FAR worse crimes were not televised.  Let Will keep his Oscar.

Oh, don't worry, Will Smith will get to keep his Oscar. He's rich, powerful, and privileged. Consequences are for the little people.

[Ms Blue Jay]

24 minutes ago, SusanM said:

Agreed,  The only positive thing I can say about Chris Rock is that he didn't respond in kind to Will Smith and make a bad situation 10 times worse.   

I think Chris carried on with the show in a shockingly professional way.  Like taking the mantra "the show must go on" to an insane degree.   He did as best as he could under the circumstances.

Questlove told the story last night on Fallon and it was nice to hear that he was in a complete daze over the commercial break because Jerry Seinfeld taught him Transcendental Meditation. He didn't even really know what had happened right before he accepted the award.

It was nice that Fallon gave him that space, and Fallon was so overcome that Quest won the award that he actually was crying.  It was sweet.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[debbie311]

This morning on either GMA or Today (I can't remember which), it was mentioned that Smith might be suspended for a period of time - i.e. not able to be nominated for a year or some period of time.  They have to do SOMETHING.  Marching up to the stage and assaulting someone during a live broadcast cannot be swept under the rug.

I have to say that I think that the fact that Chris Rock has been silent shows some restraint and class on his part.  Whoever is advising him is doing a good job.

Will looks the fool.  He only apologized after the Academy said they are now "investigating." An apology that no doubt was written by a PR person on his behalf. Even if he only gets a slap on the wrist, this incident will follow him for the rest of his life, taint whatever work he does.

[SnarkAttack]

15 hours ago, ProudMary said:

Variety reports the line as ad libbed.

https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/oscars-abc-will-smith-slap-chris-rock-rob-mills-1235217294/

Quote from the article:

 

 

Rock said, "Jada, I love you" before he did the joke.  I wonder if he threw that in there, if it indeed was unscripted, to soften it.

[cardigirl]

19 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

Respectfully, I fail to see where I misrepresented anything when I am seeing comments, saying (direct quote) "it doesn't matter what happened before" or (paraphrasing) "those actions didn't happen on stage, during the ceremony like Will's assault (and to be clear, I am calling it what it was - an assault)" with the logical conclusion that only Will's should be addressed. When you read comment after comment in this regard, it is hardly a flex, much less a stretch, for that to be my takeaway. 

I think there should be actions, but that is for the Academy to decide. If one of the actions is to take away Will's Oscar (which I'm sure they won't, ultimately, but it has been brought up as a possibility), then my stance is that so should the Oscars of all those I've mentioned be stripped. The bottom line is that I keep the same energy and standards for all of those problematic winners, Will included. Whether I personally witnessed their actions or not, whether it was two days ago or two decades ago, makes no difference to me, a domestic violence and sexual abuse survivor.

I'm so glad you view Will's actions as assault because that was what they were. Throw in battery as well. When I said it doesn't matter what has happened before, I meant that this incident is now. The Academy needs to address it. Due to recently adopted bylaws, it is even more important that they address this incident with meaningful consequences.  

When people say nothing should be done because other issues haven't been addressed, it's excuse-making. When people try to find justification for Will's behavior because the joke was poor, that's excuse-making. Laying any of the blame at Chris Rock's feet is wrong. Will's actions are on him and him alone. 

Perhaps, if the Academy does address this incident with any meaningful consequences, they will also review those others you have listed, and they should. 

[A.Ham]

On 3/28/2022 at 11:19 AM, absnow54 said:

No, it was a complete disservice to We Don't Talk About Bruno. What makes that song such a fun ear worm is how they build a bunch of different verses, unique to each character, and then layer them all together at the end to a really complex climax. Instead they just repeated the chorus over and over again. Slap-gate definitely distracted from my disappointment in the performance. It could have been such a fun number!

Yes! Complete disappointment for me. They had announced the first live performance of the song, so I was envisioning something along the lines of this Spanish version (these are kids from a theatre school in Chihuahua, Mexico), but with costumes and Hollywood magic. If those kids could do such a great job, surely professionals with an Oscars budget could blow the roof off the place. I was wrong, because this? Was not that. 

ETA: How did the Oscars butcher this so badly? You’re gonna hype up the first live performance of this song and then just not... sing... the song?

Edited March 29, 2022 by A.Ham

[slowpoked]

I'm not going to give any more thoughts to the Will-Chris controversy because I'm sure whatever thoughts I have has been covered more eloquently by other posters here. I'm glad Will has apologized, and a true apology at that - "I apologize to Chris. What I did was wrong."

For the show itself, in hindsight, I would have preferred it if Amy hosted alone. Her monologue was the best part of the hosting - she got the sharpest and wittiest bits. That Don't Look Up quip had me laughing. The parts about being a mom spoke to me. Stand-up comedians really play well with the hosting duties of the Oscars. I wonder how Wanda would have done on a live monologue instead of a pre-taped bit. 

I love Regina Hall but her brand of comedy doesn't lend itself to hosting. While the triologue had good jokes, it's clear they don't have the rapport of comedians who have been working with each other for a long time and can finish each other's sentences (Tina/Amy/Maya). Amy would have  been able to carry it and shine on her own. 

I may be on the minority here, but I love the movie reunions and the segue to presenting. I hope there's more of this in future telecasts, and not just the Oscar-awarded/nominated movies, but publicly beloved movies in general - who wouldn't want to see a Clueless reunion and Alicia Silverstone and Paul Rudd next year to present an award? Or a My Best Friend's Wedding reunion and get Julia Roberts/Cameron Diaz/Dermot Mulroney (or Rupert Everett) presenting. It may pull some viewers who are craving for nostalgia that the Oscars previously used to provide magnificently but have been severely lacking in recent years.

And bring back the other "minor" awards to the main telecast. Clearly, their awards are NOT the reason why the show usually runs over. If they were able to stick to the 3-hour running time, then I can see ABC winning the argument. But all it did was stir bad feelings in the industry and it didn't really solve anything. 

[CountryGirl]

43 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

This was just Regina Hall sexually harassing men.  It wasn't funny.

Agreed. On both counts.

I will never view this type of behavior as okay and the argument that turnabout is fair play doesn't hold water. Wrong is always wrong.

[greekmom]

1 hour ago, Dani said:

Just because no one got on stage and punched him doesn’t mean the joke was okay or that no one batted an eye. That joke was offensive (and not funny) and people have reacted. The default for celebrities at awards shows is to role with the punches that doesn’t mean they don’t care or others don’t care. 

Honestly I don't see any reactions in regards to the Javier/Penelope joke and it's all focused on the Smith joke.

Did you hear Gervais' routine at another award show?!?! Sheesh. Funny but cutting 10xs worse than what Rock said to Jada. 

I guess it just comes down to what you find funny, time and place.  The Regina Hall groping men up at the awards show was to me tasteless. But I can sit and laugh my butt off at Ali Wong, Bert Kreischer, Chappelle and Rock time and time again, and they say some pretty raunchy stuff.
Maybe the Oscars just need to revamp their show.  Take out commentaries, comedians, acts, no booze, no food, - just give out the awards and be done with it.  

[ProudMary]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Questlove told the story last night on Fallon and it was nice to hear that he was in a complete daze over the commercial break because Jerry Seinfeld taught him Transcendental Meditation. He didn't even really know what had happened right before he accepted the award.

It was nice that Fallon gave him that space, and Fallon was so overcome that Quest won the award that he actually was crying.  It was sweet.

I was just coming here to post about this. It was great that Jimmy Fallon had Questlove on the show as a "guest" so he was able to talk about his experience. Well worth a watch if you didn't see it last night. (Video clip is 8:23.)

 

[PepSinger]

50 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Laying any of the blame at Chris Rock's feet is wrong

I can certainly lay blame at his feet for telling an offensive joke, though. Where’s his apology to Jada?

[CountryGirl]

5 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

I can certainly lay blame at his feet for telling an offensive joke, though. Where’s his apology to Jada?

It is well within the realm of possibility that both men were wrong. Will's reaction was clearly the worse of the two. 

[A.Ham]

19 hours ago, Archery said:

I loved Esperanza’s “Wonderful World” In Memoriam, and also Queen Latifa’s “I’ll Be Seeing You.” Just a stripped down, melancholy song done with no frills by the oldest instrument used to express grief—the human voice. I also love when they include everyone, from major actors and directors to costume designers and sound engineers. 

Good choices. I did love Sarah Bareilles' "Smile", which I am now realizing was from the 2014 Emmys. Though I did wish it would have been a straight out song without voice inserts in between. By the time they got to Robin Williams at the end, my misty eyes turned to full-on tears.

Anyways, the point being, just do dignified song or instrumental piece, show the people you're supposed to be remembering, and call it a day.

[slowpoked]

5 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

I can certainly lay blame at his feet for telling an offensive joke, though. Where’s his apology to Jada?

Where would the line be drawn at offensive vs. not offensive at these awards shows though? If that's the bar, then all hosts would be forced to apologized afterwards. Or they'll do without hosts again because no one will want to do the job. Will Chris also need to apologize to Penelope? Calling her "his wife" is pretty offensive too. How about Amy basically saying Don't Look Up stinks? Or Wanda calling TPOTD boring as hell, wherein people who put their heart and soul into it can be offended by that? I fear that if that rabbit hole was opened, it would never end. 

[PepSinger]

1 minute ago, slowpoked said:

10 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

I can certainly lay blame at his feet for telling an offensive joke, though. Where’s his apology to Jada?

Where would the line be drawn at offensive vs. not offensive at these awards shows though? If that's the bar, then all hosts would be forced to apologized afterwards. Or they'll do without hosts again because no one will want to do the job. Will Chris also need to apologize to Penelope? Calling her "his wife" is pretty offensive too. How about Amy basically saying Don't Look Up stinks? Or Wanda calling TPOTD boring as hell, wherein people who put their heart and soul into it can be offended by that? I fear that if that rabbit hole was opened, it would never end. 

Nothing that you mentioned includes insulting someone with a disability. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

27 minutes ago, ProudMary said:

I was just coming here to post about this. It was great that Jimmy Fallon had Questlove on the show as a "guest" so he was able to talk about his experience. Well worth a watch if you didn't see it last night. (Video clip is 8:23.)

Jimmy and The Roots clearly have a great relationship that has benefitted the both of them.

[Bookworm 1979]

It's too bad that Jada didn't stand up and yell, "Yes!  GI Jane is badass!" when Chris Rock made his joke.  Turn it back on him.  

[Scout Finch]

On 3/28/2022 at 5:32 PM, Pickles Aplenty said:

Even if Chris didn't know, you should never assume the reason a person is bald.  It could be for health reasons you know nothing about, and it's just not necessary to comment on it. 

I've been "defending" Chris because out of the copious amount of comments I've read it appears that about 95% of us had no idea she had alopecia until then and maybe he didn't either. However, you make an excellent point that did not occur to me. Even if he was in the same group with the 95% of us who did not know about that particular health issue, it doesn't matter unless we knew for certain that it wasn't due to any medical condition and was just a style choice. Perhaps I was unable to see this obvious "regardless" perspective because my logic was affected by how greatly the entire Smith family annoys me. 😏

So thank you for that. I wish I had thought of this very salient point before posting ad nauseum in comment sections using the argument of my first sentence! 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Scout Finch

[Crashcourse]

I was never a Will Smith fan, so he can just take his Oscar and jam it up his ass.

[slowpoked]

48 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

Nothing that you mentioned includes insulting someone with a disability. 

Then healthy, able people are the only ones who will be "fair game"? And what exactly would be "fair game" then - joking about their multiple wives or girlfriends or divorces, about someone who's gotten fat/gained weight? About their work being nominated even though the reviews sucked? About plastic surgery gone bad? Who has the right to be offended and who should be the one "just laughing it off"? This is what I mean about the never-ending rabbit hole.

Like I said, I'm glad Will truly apologized and also added that he knows jokes are part of shows like this but then he got emotionally charged. We can critique Rock on whether his joke was unfunny, offensive, or was he even ever funny, but assault is always crossing the line. Of course I am speaking in hindsight here, but if Will had shown a little bit more restraint - he AND everyone in that room knew he was winning that Oscar and he would have his moment on stage. He could have used that time to forcefully tell off Chris Rock, about how it wasn't funny, how it was offensive, how he owes Jada an apology, etc. He would have gotten out as the clear, heroic winner of the night and have Rock be the ultimate, unequivocal villain.

With that said, yes he should face repercussions, but what repercussions, I don't really know. I think taking back his Oscar is a tad too much, because then they will be opening up a whole lot of can of worms on that end. Maybe have him apologize at the show next year, Justin Timberlake-style? 

[ProudMary]

As I've already said in several previous posts in this thread, Will Smith was absolutely wrong to rush the stage and hit him, but...

Had presenter, not host, Chris Rock just stuck to the script and and kept the already late-running train on the tracks, the wreck would never have happened. But, in the spirit of toxic masculinity, he felt the need to ad-lib a monologue just a bit, instead of leaving that to the historic three women who were hosting the telecast.

[Rebecca berkowit]

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

It is well within the realm of possibility that both men were wrong. Will's reaction was clearly the worse of the two. 

It’s possible, but really the joke wasn’t THAT bad. People seem to be reading waaaaay too much into it, probably because of Smith’s inappropriate reaction.  It was a throwaway line, by a COMEDIAN, one of MANY who had been making vaguely insulting jokes at the people there all night. (The Lucille Ball movie wasn’t funny, nobody could finish Power of the Dog, mistaking JK Simmons for Chalamet, etc.).  We’re they also in the wrong?  I would argue that is the whole schtick with Oscar hosts.  They make fun of these super rich and fortunate people, and most of these stars, aware that they make a gazillion dollars and are lucky to be there, take it in stride.  I guarantee you nobody would’ve remembered the joke about GI Jane (which she DID look like!) but for the assault.  It’s not like people today would be going “wow, can you believe Chris Rock insulted Jada Pinkett like that, that’s just beyond the pale!”  I think people want to make excuses for what Smith did by making this out to be a horrible, shocking insult from Rock.  It’s not.   Hitting is never ok.   The impulse to “both sides” this is strange to me.  Sometimes a-holes just do things that are a-hole like.  It’s tempting to try to make sense of an inexplicable violent action like this, but I think the act speaks for itself.  

Edited March 29, 2022 by Rebecca berkowit

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

It’s possible, but really the joke wasn’t THAT bad.  It was a throwaway line, by a COMEDIAN, one of many who had been making vaguely insulting jokes at the people there all night. (The Lucille Ball movie wasn’t funny, nobody could finish Power of the Dog, mistaking JK Simmons for Chalamet, etc.). Most of these stars, aware that they make a gazillion dollars and are lucky to be there, take it in stride.  I guarantee you nobody would’ve remembered the joke about GI Jane (which she DID look like!) but for the assault.  It’s not like people today would be going “wow, can you believe Chris Rock insulted Jada Pinkett like that!”  I think people want to make excuses for what Smith did by making this out to be a horrible, shocking insult from Rock.  It’s not.   Hitting is never ok.   

Black women would remember.  They will also remember Jada's face after her eyeroll.  The remember because they have experienced something similar in their own lives.  Black women and hair is a fraught topic in America.  A fact that Chris Rock is intimately aware of.  He may not have known about Jada's alopecia, but he would know why a black woman would need to shave her head.  He knows because he produced a documentary on this subject.

[UsernameFatigue]

1 hour ago, Bookworm 1979 said:

It's too bad that Jada didn't stand up and yell, "Yes!  GI Jane is badass!" when Chris Rock made his joke.  Turn it back on him.  

That's what I don't understand. Why do people assume it was an insult? GI Jane wasn't a wimp and Demi Moore looked great in that film. Many women shave their heads because they like the look, find it much easier than caring for a head of hair, and have a head shape that suits it. Not every woman that shaves her head does it for medical reasons. 

On The Talk yesterday Sheryl Underwood said that Chris Rock did not know that Jada has alopecia. Guest host Paula Abdul said that she did not. I am sure lots of people didn't know, myself included. It is quite possible that many people do not know everything there is to know about the Smiths (other than their marriage problems which they discuss ad nauseum). 

Edited March 29, 2022 by UsernameFatigue

[CountryGirl]

9 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Black women would remember.  They will also remember Jada's face after her eyeroll.  The remember because they have experienced something similar in their own lives.  Black women and hair is a fraught topic in America.  A fact that Chris Rock is intimately aware of.  He may not have known about Jada's alopecia, but he would know why a black woman would need to shave her head.  He knows because he produced a documentary on this subject.

And he has two daughters. 

I won't say more out of respect for the WOC here, who are much more intimately educated on this topic than I. 

[CountryGirl]

26 minutes ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

It’s possible, but really the joke wasn’t THAT bad. People seem to be reading waaaaay too much into it, probably because of Smith’s inappropriate reaction.  It was a throwaway line, by a COMEDIAN, one of MANY who had been making vaguely insulting jokes at the people there all night. (The Lucille Ball movie wasn’t funny, nobody could finish Power of the Dog, mistaking JK Simmons for Chalamet, etc.).  We’re they also in the wrong?  I would argue that is the whole schtick with Oscar hosts.  They make fun of these super rich and fortunate people, and most of these stars, aware that they make a gazillion dollars and are lucky to be there, take it in stride.  I guarantee you nobody would’ve remembered the joke about GI Jane (which she DID look like!) but for the assault.  It’s not like people today would be going “wow, can you believe Chris Rock insulted Jada Pinkett like that, that’s just beyond the pale!”  I think people want to make excuses for what Smith did by making this out to be a horrible, shocking insult from Rock.  It’s not.   Hitting is never ok.   The impulse to “both sides” this is strange to me.  Sometimes a-holes just do things that are a-hole like.  It’s tempting to try to make sense of an inexplicable violent action like this, but I think the act speaks for itself.  

Whether his joke was bad is not for me to say. My opinion is completely irrelevant.

The only person who can make that determination is Jada. 

I make zero excuses for Will. His reaction was completely inappropriate and unacceptable. Full stop.

His actions do not negate that Chris' joke was offensive to Jada and Chris' undeservedly being assaulted by Will does not erase it as if the words weren't spoken. It doesn't work that way for me. 

[slowpoked]

25 minutes ago, ProudMary said:

Had presenter, not host, Chris Rock just stuck to the script and and kept the already late-running train on the tracks, the wreck would never have happened. But, in the spirit of toxic masculinity, he felt the need to ad-lib a monologue just a bit, instead of leaving that to the historic three women who were hosting the telecast.

This is true. Was the whole monologue ad-libbed, or just the part about Jada? Then again, I'm thinking, there's no way the producers would have invited Chris Rock just to present, anyway.

I wonder, though, what else was cut because of his monologue - if it was unplanned? Only Amy came back out for a solo second round. I would have wanted to see Wanda also do her own live monologue.

[Ohiopirate02]

8 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

And he has two daughters. 

I won't say more out of respect for the WOC here, who are much more intimately educated on this topic than I. 

I am a white woman and not really qualified to really discuss this, but I am willing to shut up and listen to WOC.  Roxane Gay wrote a nice opinion piece on this for the NY Times today.  I would link it, but it skirts the no politics line for this site.  

[ProudMary]

3 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

Whether his joke was bad is not for me to say. My opinion is completely irrelevant.

The only person who can make that determination is Jada. 

I make zero excuses for Will. His reaction was completely inappropriate and unacceptable. Full stop.

His actions do not negate that Chris' joke was offensive to Jada and Chris' undeservedly being assaulted by Will does not erase it as his the words weren't spoken. It doesn't work that way for me. 

👏

I think this sums EVERYTHING about Sunday night's incident up perfectly.