30 For 30

[Bastet]

I watched most of the Hillsborough episode again last night, but fell asleep shortly before it ended.  Did anyone else watch to see if they added a coda about the recent inquest results?

[formerlyfreedom]

On 6/12/2016 at 0:38 PM, Bastet said:

I watched most of the Hillsborough episode again last night, but fell asleep shortly before it ended.  Did anyone else watch to see if they added a coda about the recent inquest results?

@Bastet, they did mention the inquest results on the last screen, it was brief but acknowledged.

[Simon Boccanegra]

My favorite episode was that one about the athlete who died tragically young. It was even better than the one that delved into highly charged racial politics. Of course, one can't forget the one about that athletic contest that took on greater significance because it buoyed a weary nation's spirits.

Seriously...I've only seen the first season and a few isolated ones thereafter. The ones outstanding in my mind are "The Best That Never Was" (Marcus Dupree, heartbreaking watching himself on film in his youthful prime); "June 17, 1994" (like going back and living that night over again); and "The Band That Wouldn't Die" (beautiful filmmaking that caught a time when football was on the cusp of becoming "the" American spectator sport).  

Some of the entries have not been so great, relative to the possibilities of the material. "Four Days in October" (Red Sox/Yankees ALCS) told us nothing new, and did so dully; "Marion Jones: Press Pause" was a whitewash by a filmmaker who seemed to have a crush on his subject, and "One Night in Vegas" (Tyson and Tupac) was so profoundly annoying in its look-at-me brash style that it could be used as a tool of harassment.  

[LeighAnne]

From the "Things That Were Inevitable" file:  ESPN is showing an updated version of "Believeland" on June 30, with a new ending covering the Cleveland Cavaliers winning the 2016 NBA Championship and its aftermath.  Director Andy Billman is filming now and will be going to the parade for footage.

[Court]

I had zero knowledge of the Hillsborough event. The span of that cover up was massive. I'm glad the recent inquest results finally gave the families the justice they deserved. 

[LeighAnne]

Football coach Buddy Ryan, who was the Defensive Coordinator of the 1985 Chicago Bears (and father of coaches Rex Ryan and Rob Ryan), passed away today (June 28, 2016).  R.I.P. Coach Ryan.

From the 30 for 30 episode "The '85 Bears":

Buddy Ryan's letter

Edited June 29, 2016 by LeighAnne

[mansonlamps]

On 6/17/2016 at 6:09 PM, saoirse said:

@Bastet, they did mention the inquest results on the last screen, it was brief but acknowledged.

I didn't see any inquest results, just that an inquest was initiated in 2014.  it's so sad that I barely rever remember this happening, I was in my 20's, not a child.  I'm sure it was brushed off in the news as soccer hooligans and minimally covered so I didn't give it much thought.

[LeighAnne]

New episode on Thursday July 14, 2016:  Doc & Darryl

It's about Mets players Doc Gooden and Darryl Strawberry, and how their careers were destroyed by drug abuse.  Co-directed by Judd Apatow (Anchorman, The 40-Year Old Virgin) and Michael Bonfiglio.  One of the talking heads in this is Mets fan Jon Stewart.

[mojoween]

Apparently ESPN is going to simulcast President Obama's Town Hall on Thursday that might affect the airing of Doc & Darryl so heads up if you set the DVR, like I have.

[Maherjunkie]

Did anyone see the one with Tonya Harding?  Her anger toward Nancy to this day was shocking and pathetic.

[Bastet]

Nancy Kerrigan always bugged the ever-loving shit out of me, and I loved to watch Tonya Harding skate, so I was disappointed when all that crazy stuff went down. 

I liked that episode and think it presented a fair picture of Tonya -- good and bad.  How awful her mother was to her (yet was the only person she had to rely on, making it no wonder she married an asshole at a young age), how she was treated as the "white trash" of the skating world -- and how, while she has a good handle on some things today, she's still living in denial.  I always rooted for her on the ice, and will always root for her to continue learning to love and make a stable life for herself, but she's not yet being completely honest with herself as far as I can tell. 

[Maherjunkie]

What was it about Nancy?

[funky-rat]

I just saw Hillsborough this weekend.  I recall when that happened (I was in High School) and I too recall that the info we got stateside was what the papers over there were saying - that it was drunk soccer hooligans who created an issue.  I also recall seeing the unaltered photos on a TV show I was watching with my mom - a news show like 60 Minutes or something similar - as part of a larger story on the dangers of "festival seating" at sporting events and concerts (I recall it touched on the Who concert in Cincinnati, among others).  When we saw those poor people up against the fence, necks bent in unnatural ways, tongues hanging out, we knew.  We just knew.  There was an audible gasp in the room.  It wasn't until I was friends with someone on FB who was from Liverpool that I heard about what really happened (this was a few years ago, when they opened up the most recent inquiry, and I've been following it ever since) and I was tickled to see that they FINALLY set the story straight.  The families deserve that.

I'll be looking for the Foxcatcher story.  I know people in the industry - some who were actually at Foxcatcher, and that was absolutely shocking when it happened.  We saw the movie when it came out, and while it wasn't the best at telling the story, I do feel that it did a good job of making you actually feel what it was like to be with DuPont.  We all felt very uncomfortable, and we all felt that we were getting tightly wound as it built to it's climax.  It's hard to explain, but there was a thick feeling of tension that you could cut with a knife when DuPont pulled out his gun.  And I actually "felt" it when he shot - the sound actually "hit" me.  It kind-of freaked me out a bit.

[funky-rat]

I can't speak for the other poster, but Nancy always bugged the crap out of me too.  She was clearly the darling of the skating world, and I felt we were constantly bombarded with her, and her mother, and were supposed to want to support her over the others simply because of that.  They never missed an opportunity to remind the viewers that her mother was legally blind, etc, and show her watching Nancy on that special TV backstage.  She also got her dresses made by Vera Wang, etc.  Meanwhile, Tonya's situation was never mentioned, and it was horrible.  She and her mother made her dresses (for better or worse).  And I 100% believe Tonya when she says she was told her dresses were ugly and to no wear them again - I took skating lessons when I was younger - it's a nasty and fickle world with a lot of backbiting.

Plus Nancy always came across as a spoiled Prima-Donna to me.  Look no further than her griping about Oksana Baiul (someone else I feel we were supposed to root for "just because of her past"), or the Disney World parade. 

 

I agree that Tonya rushed into marriage because it seemed like a more stable option than her home, and because the skating officials thought it would make her "look better".  And I absolutely believe they talked her into not divorcing him, to protect that image.  I still don't remain 100% convinced that Tonya was in on the whole thing in the beginning, but I do believe she found out about it, and never said anything until she was threatened with charges.  We'll never know, because what happened is so muddied in her mind that we'll never get a clear story.

Watch the documentary Sharp Edges to get an idea of what her life was like when she was coming up through the ranks.  Horrifying.  And you'll understand that she was destined to implode at some point, sadly.  I understood her lifetime ban from competitive skating, but a few years later they added in professional skating, and that I don't agree with, but again, the sport was always about image.

Tonya was the underdog.  I tend to root for the underdog.  And I honestly thought Tonya was the better skater.  Your mileage may vary.

[hypnotoad]

I always thought Tonya Harding was a much more natural skater than Nancy Kerrigan. Kerrigan always seemed very fake to me and I found her skating flat, stiff and uninspiring. Kerrigan bugged the heck out of me too!

Edited July 30, 2016 by hypnotoad

[Bastet]

Quote

What was it about Nancy?

Sorry it took me so long to see the question, but funky-rat's answer can stand as my own.

[LeighAnne]

New episode on October 18, 2016:  Phi Slama Jama, about the University of Houston's men's basketball team during the Hakeem Olajuwon/Clyde Drexler years.

[funky-rat]

I'm surprised no one had anything to say about "This Was The XFL", which aired last week.  I thought it was really good.  My husband is a lifelong WWF fan, but thankfully, he's not as fanatical as he was before.  He also was a big pro football nut (who has since given up the pros in favor of college), so to him, it was the best of both worlds.  I enjoyed the interviews with Rod Smart (a/k/a He Hate Me), and the announcer and camera man, both of their names escape me right now. 

I particularly enjoyed the behind-the-scenes stories that showed just how much of a cluster the XFL was, and confirmed my thoughts on it that when it became more wrestling than football, it lost the audience.

[PaulaO]

I do not watch sports (except tennis, skiing, and track and field), but I find most 30 for 30 shows fascinating.  ESPN2 seems to run them continually.  This weekend I watch Nancy/Tonya, and the BC points shaving scandal.  Fascinating to learn about points shaving.  I'm a born and bred Chicago girl but can't watch the Bears episode.  Very emotional.

[anyanka323]

On 5/3/2016 at 10:22 PM, ChicksDigScars said:

As a lifelong Packers fan who moved to Bears Country in 1985, I have no desire to see that episode. I lived it. It was Hell. But, I have gotten my revenge. Many times over since 1992. Thank you, Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers. 

I still find it disgusting, the deafening silence from the most outspoken witch hunters (yes, you Nancy Grace), who didn't even have the balls to appear on the air the day after the lacrosse players were declared innocent. She had a sub on her show that day. To this day, has she ever admitted she was wrong for the inordinate amount of time she spent going after those kids? 

I think my favorite 30 for 30 is still I Hate Christian Laettner. I'm not a Duke fan, but this was entertaining stuff. Plus, it was fairly humorous. Present Day Laettner comes off fairly well. The idiots who STILL, after all these years, write books and rap song about how much Duke Sucks, looked like the petty dip shits in this. 

To be fair to Laettner, he's not as hateable as some Duke players.  He's probably the first Duke player to get the dislike that has become associated with certain Duke players.  I think that Grayson Allen is worse because of his unsportsmanlike conduct and the uncanny resemblance to Ted Cruz, who also has a very slappable face. 

[SPLAIN]

I caught the episode last night on the life of basketball golden boy Ben Wilson. I never watched it when it was released a few years ago. I missed the first 30 minutes.

The episode brought tears to my eyes. Overall, it was a great documentary. I recall when Ben Wilson died and the articles in the press, magazines, and the news coverage. Very sad to watch the scenes of him in his casket. Hearing R. Kelly was pretty interesting.

[meep.meep]

I saw the episode on the US Football League, made in 2009.  Went belly up because Donald Trump was trying to use it to get an NFL franchise when he didn't have the money to afford one.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I was surprised that the Lakers/Celtics rivalry had four parts. Normally this kind of episode would have been one part, the end. I did find it ironic whenever Mark Wahlberg's voiceover mentioned the racism in Boston. Et tu, Marky Mark?

[Raja]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I was surprised that the Lakers/Celtics rivalry had four parts. Normally this kind of episode would have been one part, the end. I did find it ironic whenever Mark Wahlberg's voiceover mentioned the racism in Boston. Et tu, Marky Mark?

Big brother Donnie was the narrator of the Boston segments.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Whoops! I watched the whole thing a few weeks ago and totally forgot to post about it until this weekend. I must have mixed up which of the Brothers Wahlberg narrated in the weeks since then. In regular life, I know the difference between them (NKOTB vs Good Vibrations)!

[benteen]

Mike and the Mad Dog 30 for 30 tomorrow.  Definitely a New York thing but as someone who remembers their show so well, I'm really looking forward to it.  If you want insight on sports talk radio, particularly the New York area, I would advise you to watch it.  I still listen to Dog on his XM radio station.

[rallymantis]

Enjoying the shit out of Mike & the Mad Dog (how else can I say it?).   Francesa...eh.  But I love Chris, even when I can't stand him.  Glad they put this together.

eta: Crap.  I forgot that Tony Russo (Chris's dad) phoned the show the day after Chris left ("Can I still call ya?").  

Edited July 14, 2017 by rallymantis

[benteen]

I really enjoyed it too.  I wish is had been a little longer but it was fun and I enjoyed seeing the early days.

That stuff with Tony Russo was great.  I heard that Mike did a reading at Tony's funeral a few years ago.

[xaxat]

Add me to the list of people who enjoyed it. Admit it, you were singing along!

They're talking sports, going at it as hard as they can!

If you enjoyed the show, I recommend this oral history of WFAN from the old Grantland site.

[Crs97]

What Carter Lost was very well done.  Growing up in a small town in Texas, I can tell you that they were right in calling football a religion.  My sister was a cheerleader the year our team won state, and they were treated like gods.  I didn't know anything about Carter (I'm a Houston girl), but Mr CRS grew up near there and remembered the whole thing.  He was riveted.

I wish they could have explained why they were so willing to throw their futures away for some quick thrills, but I guess there really isn't an explanation, at least not one that could satisfy me.  Seeing Evans' dad was heart-breaking.  I didn't like the preacher talking about how his one mistake affected him and his family with no mention of the victims.  I am glad some of the victims were interviewed to make it clear that it wasn't just high school hijinks. I was glad to see that all of them were able to make something of themselves afterwards.

[Ottis]

Scab teams during the 1987 strike. I grew up in NoVa and was a young man then, and a huge NFL and Redskins fan. I remember that team well, and what those players did - especially beating Dallas when Dallas had so many regular players back and the Redskins had none. Loved how this ep framed the Cowboys' handling of the strike as divisive and selfish, while Gibbs and the Redskins were much smarter and more ethical. That for me sums up Redskins vs. Cowboys, at least until Snyder bought the Redskins.

Not sure how I feel about no ring for the strike players. I agree they contributed to the season, but it was a full season (not a shortened strike season like in 1982), and the team still had to win all the other games and the playoffs and Super Bowl (my favorite SB ever, down 10-0 at the end of the first quarter, and then Doug Williams and Timmy Smith WENT OFF). It sounds like the strike players did get playoff money, which isn't chump change. 

I would totally hire Tony Robinson to paint my house if I lived there. And if I ever met any of those strike players, I would shake their hands and thank them for helping making my team champions.

[spaceytraci1208]

Did anyone catch the episode on Tommy Morrison?  That story was fucked up from start to finish!  It opened with his mom saying she was sad when she found out she was pregnant with him, becauseshe didn't want him! He put himself through hell...I hope he's resting in piece.

[scootypuffjr]

The Tommy episode was like a car wreck - horrifying and tragic, but you couldn't look away. It was terrible and fascinating. He was so talented and full of promise, charismatic and articulate. but he seemed absolutely determined to throw it all away at every turn. I never saw Rocky V and wasn't keeping up with boxing at the time, but I was deeply affected by this story. I couldn't believe that was the same guy at the end, he looked at least 70 years old and I believe it said he passed in his early 40s. So sad.

[mojoween]

I'm finally cleaning up the DVR and watching "Year of the Scab" and the first thing I thought was how sad Washington fans must get seeing Jack Kent Cooke and lamenting him selling the team in 97.

"The Replacements" is one of my favorite movies of all time and I always thought it was inspired by, not partially based on.

Joe Gibbs looks fantastic.  

Aww, Giants Stadium.  I miss it.  Man the strike really messed with New York's chances to repeat, I didn't remember that, probably because I had only been a football fan for a year at the time.

It amazes me every time I watch a 30 for 30 how tight the direction is. These are SO well done.

Edited October 7, 2017 by mojoween

[Guest]

I'd been looking forward to the Ric Flair doc for a long time and...I didn't think it wasn't a particularly well done film. The director's voice grated, I have no idea why they inserted Maria Manounous into the narrative to say things no one could possibly care about other than, "I liked Ric Flair" (considering, it appears, that she's never met him) and I don't think it left me any closer to understanding Ric Fleir than Ric Flair does. I don't know. It just felt a little on the lazy side of documentaries -- like it had been produced by VH1 or something. It was interesting, yes -- but not especially a great doc like I'm used to seeing on 30 for 30s. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I haven’t watched the Nature Boy episode yet but it was the highest rated show on cable the night it premiered! I don’t know how stiff the competition is for cable shows on Tuesday night, but still. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[kathyk24]

I loved the Ric Flair 30 for 30 it could have easily been two hours long. My favorite part was Hulk Hogan admitted Flair was a better wrestler. I can't wait for the next 30 for 30 The two Bills about Bill Belichick and Bill Parcells.

[mojoween]

The TV was on ESPNU after LeBatard and “I Hate Christian Laettner” started to play and as a 30 year lover of the Duke hoops program I had to watch it again.

One of the things that amused me is Christian rattling off a list of his teammates who were also blue collar like he is and Bobby Hurley was on that list.

Um.  Wasn’t Bobby’s dad a coach in prep school when Bobby was growing up?  I know Christian’s mom was also a teacher but I just feel like Bobby wasn’t quite the same.

I was also amused that Christian has an older brother named Christopher.

At the end, the two guys who were ardent Duke haters grudgingly admitted it was because Duke was so good and that warmed my cold dark heart.

Also, it KILLS me that Dallas is lumped in with Duke and the Yankees.  Fuck the loser Cowboys.  Besides, they’ve been usurped by New England in that role, despite what the media may still be trying to push about “America’s Team.”  I don’t think such a thing exists any more anyways.

[BindsTheTuna]

I don't think you can call St. Anthony's a true "prep school." It's a private, Catholic school in poor area that is kept alive by the fame of their basketball team.

Christian's mom passed away recently. RIP. I will always remember her in that neck brace at the Kentucky game.

[mojoween]

I finally got around to watching “The Two Bills” and as a Giants fan since the mid-80’s I loved seeing that great defense back on the field.  I would watch old footage of New York ALL DAY.

I also very much love that the interview was done with the “New York Football Giants” banner in the background.  Belichick might have five rings as a head coach, but he doesn’t have seven. 

Edited February 24, 2018 by mojoween

[peppergal]

For anyone looking forward to the next installment this week, "The Last Days of Knight,"  ESPN has decided that it will be available only through their paid streaming service ESPN+.   Personally, as interested as I was in seeing it, I'm not even considering playing along with this, even via one of the free trials.

[mojoween]

June 17, 1994 is airing today (an...odd...choice for Father’s Day) and I am FLOORED.

Ken Griffey, Jr. had 30 home runs by mid-June?!?

[scootypuffjr]

^^ A very eventful day, wasn't it?

[Bastet]

On 6/17/2018 at 6:05 PM, scootypuffjr said:

^^ A very eventful day, wasn't it?

It's bonkers how much was going on in the world of sports at the same point in time that year.  I'd have never thought to make an episode about it, so it's good I don't produce this series and others do, because it's an interesting one.

[ShutUpLutz]

On 5/3/2016 at 11:22 PM, ChicksDigScars said:

As a lifelong Packers fan who moved to Bears Country in 1985, I have no desire to see that episode. I lived it. It was Hell. But, I have gotten my revenge. Many times over since 1992. Thank you, Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers. 

I think my favorite 30 for 30 is still I Hate Christian Laettner. I'm not a Duke fan, but this was entertaining stuff. Plus, it was fairly humorous. Present Day Laettner comes off fairly well. The idiots who STILL, after all these years, write books and rap song about how much Duke Sucks, looked like the petty dip shits in this. 

Yeah I bet you were jumping out of your chair and shrieking "FUCK YEAH!!!" when Charles Martin cheapshotted Jim McMahon and essentially destroyed his right shoulder and pretty much ended his career. And then there are the Packers fans who broke into the Viking team buses and destroyed them and stole players and coaches property and as a crowning touch shit and pissed all over the buses. So classy.

On 5/7/2016 at 10:56 PM, mansonlamps said:

 

And the Christian Laettner one was great!  I honestly had never heard of the guy and am no fan of basketball but something made me watch it. I couldn't turn it off, it was so crazy how much people hated and still hate this guy.  Yeah he was a bit arrogant, but nothing like some of the players today when that kind of posturing is totally acceptable.  I'm glad he has a sense of humor about it.

As for Laettner, I love read loathe how that spazzy Carolina fan ignored the fact that the reason Laettner stepped on the Kentucky player was that Laettner thought that was the player who nearly crippled him by shoving him into the basketball stantion earlier in the game.

As for Laettner being arrogant, sure he was, but he earned and deserved it. He really was THAT great. he's easily one of the top 5 college basketball players of all time.

I'm waiting for the 30 For 30 on the Malice At The Palace. There is great story and great documentary to be told, but the way ESPN and the NBA are tied together I doubt it will happen.

[stillhere1900]

On 3/14/2016 at 5:56 PM, lovinbob said:

Did anyone watch this? It was pretty chilling and reminded me that when this happened, I was sure they were guilty. I'm very ashamed of that.

 

One thing I didn't understand -- where did they get the photos of the accuser? Did the team take them, or did the other dancer? 

Last night I watched this woman featured in another crime. She killed her boyfriend.

I don't remember what show I was watching.

Edited October 15, 2018 by stillhere1900

[Tachi Rocinante]

The Short film on Felix Baumgartner was interesting.

[kathyk24]

On ‎4‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 4:18 PM, peppergal said:

For anyone looking forward to the next installment this week, "The Last Days of Knight,"  ESPN has decided that it will be available only through their paid streaming service ESPN+.   Personally, as interested as I was in seeing it, I'm not even considering playing along with this, even via one of the free trials.

I saw this on ESPN tonight I felt so sorry for Neil Reid. He deserved a much longer life. I thought they went easy on Bobby Knight they didn't mention his controversial comments while he worked for ESPn

[Ottis]

I moved to Indiana in the early 90s, and as an outsider my perception of Knight going in was that he was an asshole. I knew that he won, but I would see his antics on TV or read about them in newspapers and think, "What a jerk." After moving to Indiana my exposure to Knight coverage increased, and I would see him in press conferences being an ass to reporters who asked decent questions. "Why the hell do those reporters put up with that?" I would ask.  I never, ever understood why so many people in that state loved him. Winning doesn't excuse the behaviors everyone saw, much less the ones that were uncovered and forced him out. BTW, Bob Knight is what made me a Purdue fan.

Since then, nothing Knight has said or done has shown any remorse or understanding that what he did was wrong. I've long since left Indiana but visit from time to time. There are many people there who still love him. Wonder what they think of this 30 for 30? 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Ottis

[LeighAnne]

Quote

Since then, nothing Knight has said or done has shown any remorse or understanding that what he did was wrong.

I had to turn off parts of "The Last Days of Knight" because it was making me too mad.  The last time we hear Knight's voice in this documentary was during a telephone interview in which he wishes all the people who fired him at Indiana were all dead.

 

"28 - 1"

The James "Buster" Douglas episode.  It was fun.  I know they're trying to alternate between heavy episodes and light ones, and I enjoyed this light one.  I'm old enough to remember the Tyson vs. Douglas fight, and at the time, it seemed impossible that Tyson could lose to anyone.  He usually only took minutes to finish off opponents.  I know Douglas did not become a major fighter that his people were hoping he would become, but I'm glad to see he's doing fine now (he trains young boxers, and apparently invested his boxing money wisely).