S05.E04: The Broken Kingdom

[Rosiejuliemom]

I don't think the whole "now that we're finally alone" left much doubt. Unless you're stubborn and you want proof, like Liv Moore (iZombie).

 

I am stubborn and want proof. If Regina and Robin get crypt sex, CS should get some form of morning-after scene. Hopefully, this will occur after Emma is de-darked.

 

The whole thing with Emma, Hook, Henry, and Violet had me smiling. Especially Emma's "He lied to me...and I'm the Dark One!" and Hook's response.

 

Snowing felt much more real tonight. The fight was real in the way that couples fight and then figure out how to move past it. I do wish they would interact more with Emma, though.

 

Nice to see that this show just keeps crapping on Arthurian legend. At least I'm entertained by it so far.

[YaddaYadda]

Nope, I meant Kay. In non-OUAT versions of the Arthurian legend, he's generally loyal to Arthur

 

Oh, that I agree with. But the show has turned Camelot upside down. Arthur built his kingdom on an illusion, he's keeping his wife with magic, and he has gone off the rails completely.

 

But hey, as long as Lancelot gets to be the biggest hero ever! I effin' hate Lancelot, always have. This will not change that fact.

 

That said, there were some really good (anti) parallels between Arthur/Gwen and Emma/Hook.

[PixiePaws1]

So so sad to see Emma controlling anyone by heart....what the writers are having her do is breaking MY heart. ...*sob*...especially knowing how affected by it Killian was when Rumble did it to him....

[KingOfHearts]

This episode reminded me how little I care about Merida. I thought Emma was holding Belle hostage for a second.

 

While I wouldn't call it filler necessarily, it seemed mostly like exposition. Not much happened in the plot movement, but we learned the extent of Camelot's phoniness. I'm going to find Arthur's redemption hard to swallow. He's starting to fill out the EQ Dance Card with the rape, mind control, poisoning people with Agrabahn venom and dictating a kingdom. No village massacres yet, but he's definitely giving Zelena a run for her money in the evil deeds department.

 

The show just spent two episodes showing how much you can't trust Arthur. It's done it's job in shattering a reputation. (Kinda like with those eggnappers.)

Edited October 19, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[mjgchick]

I forgot to say no wonder why Emma isn't upset with Hook and Henry. Arthur screwed Snowing over and Regina, Robin are all going along for the ride because Snowing is brain washed. Emma's going to feel like an idiot when this is all over.

[MaiLuna]

I really enjoyed this episode. Timeline stamps craziness aside...

 

We had a lot of flashbacks but I thought it was a bit of fresh air even though it wasn't about the main characters. More consent issues though *facepalm*

 

Captain Swan were so adorable. And Hook's reaction to Henry's crush might be the cutest moment this season. But...Emma in this episode was totally against the darkness, not like when she saved Robin, so shouldn't her kiss with Hook have worked?

 

I loved Snowing actually doing something for once! And Regina was likeable too (I guess because she was barely there). This season so far still gets a thumbs up for me.

 

I really enjoyed this episode. Timeline stamps craziness aside...

 

We had a lot of flashbacks but I thought it was a bit of fresh air even though it wasn't about the main characters. More consent issues though *facepalm*

 

Captain Swan were so adorable. And Hook's reaction to Henry's crush might be the cutest moment this season. But...Emma in this episode was totally against the darkness, not like when she saved Robin, so shouldn't her kiss with Hook have worked?

 

I loved Snowing actually doing something for once! And Regina was likeable too (I guess because she was barely there). This season so far still gets a thumbs up from me.

Edited October 19, 2015 by MaiLuna

[Rosiejuliemom]

I thought Emma was holding Belle hostage for a second.

 

 

So did I. I figured Belle had managed to put a LoJack on the rose to track Rumple and ran into Dark Swan first.

[tennisgurl]

Can we just have ONE SEASON without creepy magic rape? Just one?

 

I hope no one was super attached to the Arthurian mythos, because MAN do the shows creators not care about it. Its kind of disappointing. They had a chance to make Arthur an anti villain type, who did very questionable things for what he believed was a greater good. Its a different kind of bad guy then what we have had, and would have made an interesting conflict. But NOPE. This episode made it pretty clear he is MUHAHAHA evil, with delusions of gradeour. This episode made it pretty clear he is more interested in the future of himself than the future of Camelot.

[HoodlumSheep]

Back for a more detailed report:

The timeline still makes no sense to me.

I can't help but like Shady Arthur, despite the sketchy magic sand he used on Guinevere and the kingdom. But if people can like Regina and Zelena, then I can like Arthur. His story (turning obsessed with reuniting the dagger) is...sensible?? Is that the right word? Or at least it makes more sense than a person vowing revenge on a 10 year old, so I give his descent into villainy a pass. He seems decently smart too, based on the back-up forces he obviously arranged for. So he wants to kill Merlin?

I also like how perfect Camelot, as someone earlier posted about, is kind of an illusion. It kind of parallels with Storybrooke basically being the same thing in season 1.

Poor Guinevere. I liked her. She seemed decently fierce. I felt bad for her.

Glad that Snowing weren't made into idiots.

Still not feeling Merida.

CS fluff was awesome and everything with Hook/Colin was adorable and hilarious.

I think this episode was the weakest so far; it seemed a bit choppy and the timeline nonsense is making my head explode.

It was still fairly decent though. Definitely not the worst episode they've done. I'm still enjoying Camelot.

Edited October 19, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[scenicbyway]

I liked the parallel they established between the two men who have spent their lives consumed by the need to find the Dark One's dagger.  One was driven by power and the other by revenge.  Both men had love as a way to give up the quest and only one did.  We saw Arthur choose the quest for the dagger over Guinevere's love and we see how in love Hook and Emma are because not only did he give up his quest to kill Rumple with the dagger, he's actually helping Emma "outrun" the darkness. 

 

I liked the idea that Camelot is nothing more than an illusion, literally grains of sand.  Of course, it's completely wrong that Arthur has "sanded" Guinevere in to a life as a willing hostage.  I do hope we'll see Lancelot breakthrough, (perhaps a TLK?) and free her. 

 

At least now we know how everyone (except for Henry and maybe Hook) betrays Emma, I'm guessing they all end up sanded at some point.  But can I just say, WORST MISSION EVER?!  I thought Charming was a chump until he met up with Snow and Lancelot, but now I think they are both chumps.  What was the point of telling Arthur that Emma is the Dark One and the dagger is in Camelot?  They essentially told him the truth to flesh out whether Arthur was the villain or Lancelot, great plan guys, you still showed your hand to the VILLIAN either way!  Also, if the untethered darkness could be defeat with a torch of fire, why wasn't Regina lobbing fireballs at it when it consumed her or Emma in the season finale?  Why not just have a big bonfire?

 

Henry's crush is cute, Hook's response was even cuter.  I really couldn't figure out why a horseback ride would clear Emma's head, but I think this time we're actually supposed to read more into it than they could show during "family" hour.

 

I liked the movie "Brave" but I can't for the life of me figure out why I'm supposed to care about Merida being in Camelot or Storybrooke.

[mjgchick]

I think I like that Arthur became a villain because he was driven with power (without having powerful magic) instead of the silly stuff like a 10 year old being manipulated by the Queen of Hearts, wanting to never grow up or revenge. We still don't really know why Emma became a villain but it's starting to look like she became one because she's protecting her loved ones at this point. I know longer want to root for Arthur but man Merlin screwed him over royally.

[Lieutenant]

Back for a more detailed report:

I can't help but like Shady Arthur, despite the sketchy magic sand he used on Guinevere and the kingdom. But if people can like Regina and Zelena, then I can like Arthur. His story (turning obsessed with reuniting the dagger) is...sensible?? Is that the right word? Or at least it makes more sense than a person bowing revenge on a 10 year old, so I give his descent into villainy a pass. He seems decently smart too, based on the back-up forces he obviously arranged for.

I totally agree. I feel like he's got a valid/understandable reason for acting the way he does. He feels like he's been given this great destiny by Merlin, and it's vital to who he is, as a man, that he accomplish this. I'm not getting the vibe yet that he's doing this out of some sort of manical dictator complex, but instead more of a greater good for all/manifest destiny for Camelot thing. Couple that with an obsessive tendencies, shrewd manipulation, and a need to be the hero that could rival Charming's, and you've got one hardcore man on a mission. I dig it. This kind of villain is totally my jam. I'll take him any day over boo hoo, my life's so hard, everyone's out to get me Regina, etc.

And I think that he truly loves Gwen, but can't seem to overcome his need to fulfill this supposed destiny of his and put his marriage first. And I found that to be a rather sad thing. Gwen, bless her heart, tried to fight for their love, but it was too late. *this does not condone the use of fix-it sand on anyone!*

[Shanna Marie]

I can't help but like Shady Arthur, despite the sketchy magic sand he used on Guinevere and the kingdom. But if people can like Regina and Zelena, then I can like Arthur. His story (turning obsessed with reuniting the dagger) is...sensible?? Is that the right word? Or at least it makes more sense than a person bowing revenge on a 10 year old, so I give his descent into villainy a pass. He seems decently smart too, based on the back-up forces he obviously arranged for. So he wants to kill Merlin?

I'm finding him intriguing as a villain. I'm getting major Macbeth vibes from him -- the prophecy that takes over his life, the obsession, the descent into madness. But he's his own Lady Macbeth. It's an interesting look at how a good man can go downhill when he gets so focused on a goal that he loses sight of why he wanted that goal in the first place. Healing Camelot and making the kingdom whole again is an admirable goal, but he got so focused on doing it magically, like that sword was the only way to do it, rather than actually being a good king. I'm kind of pitying him at the same time I'm hating him. I can imagine him actually showing remorse in the end once it all comes crumbling down around him and he realizes how he screwed up. He's the kind of villain who might go out in a blaze of self-sacrifice once he figures out what he did wrong, since I don't know if he'll be able to live with himself.

 

He definitely isn't the sort who'd hang around just making snarky remarks and showing no signs of remorse while expecting his former victims to worship at his feet.

[Blue Plastic]

Henry thinks that Violet refers to her dad as "Nicodemus!"

 

At least Emma got a nice day out before she comes back to town and finds out that her parents weren't as clever as they thought they were.  It's good that they were trying to help her (for once) and Charming wasn't actually being as much of an idiot as it first appeared, but they ended up basically handing him everything tied up with a bow anyway.

 

I wonder if he will try to dust Regina, too?

 

I wish they would try a little harder with the dialogue in scenes that are supposed to be set in fairy tale kingdoms.  It doesn't have to be Shakespearean poetry or Middle English or anything like that, but all this "I'm gonna" and other modern phrasings take me out of it a bit.  Maybe they could just skip contractions and show the characters who are used to the present-day US having a hard time fitting in.  More stuff like Hook having a hard time with cell phones.

 

So Guinevere is supposed to be Camelot's leader?  I could go for that.  Would have been nice, though, if Merlin had been more straightforward about it.  What's his excuse for scaring little girls in movie theaters and siccing megalomaniacs on Camelot's populace?

[Hookian]

The foreshadowing in tonights episode was just insane. The "orphaned" king, the comparisons between Arthur/Gwen and Hook/Emma. 

 

I know this may be farfetch'd but since King Arthur is confirmed not the true king with tonights episode I think Killian is the true king of Camelot and Emma his queen. The fact that they alone overcame their issues while Arthur/Gwen had to be faked says it all.

[thuganomics85]

One of those episodes were there was barely any Storybrooke, so since the Camelot story is technically a flashback, this means the episode was pretty much mainly a flashback and flashback to the flashback.  So many flashbacks!

 

Arthur has to be related to the Mills, right?  I mean, using magical powers to trick and rape (since I'm assuming Arthur and Guinevere aren't going to be celibate throughout this entire time) someone, is pretty much in the Mills playbook.  Either way, Arthur is clearly not a good dude, although at least his reasons for this turn are better then the norm, I guess.  Obsessed with finishing Excalibur to rid Camelot of darkness (and apparently Merlin too for some reason.)  This pushed Guinevere away, and made her get closer to Lancelot, so that's how that infamous love triangle comes about here.  She tries to give Arthur an ultimatum, but magical dust gets her under his control.  And it sounds like it makes her think Lancelot betrayed her somehow.  Either way, she's under his spell, so I guess at some point, the heroes will need to free her, in order to defeat Arthur.

 

I did like that Snow and Charming actually were being smart, and trying to outwit Arthur.  It didn't work, but a nice effort at least.  And it did surprising, which counts for something, although granted a lot of that is, as much as I love him, I can easily see Charming getting duped that easily, heh.

 

Hook's reactions to Henry and his crush, were the best.  Hook in general, continues to be the best.  Liked that he seems to be helping Emma put Dark Rumple out of her head, although I'm guessing from the way things are in Storybrooke, that isn't going to last for long.

 

Merida returns: in Camelot, she's imprisoned with Lancelot (I'm guessing Arthur is who killed her brothers?), and in Storybrooke, Dark Emma got her heart again and is going to have her train Rumple to be the hero that Dark Emma needs.  They seem to have big plans with the character, so I hope they make her more interesting very soon.

[YaddaYadda]

I think I like that Arthur became a villain because he was driven with power (without having powerful magic)

 

I don't know it's driven by power as much as it's driven by him feeling like a fraud. He was given a broken sword for a broken kingdom. It's a cruel joke. This guy came from nothing, he was an orphan whose mother left, and was bullied and taunted about it.

 

He was mind fucked by Merlin when he was a kid.

 

Who else did Merlin go to when she was a kid? Oh right, Emma! He gave her a cryptic message she's long forgotten about. 

 

The fact that Arthur wants to murder Merlin when he is released from his prison says a lot about the guy's mental state. 

 

At the end of the day, he succumbed to his own darkness, and he has a huge part of the responsibility, especially with what he did with the magic sand, but Merlin is no friggin' gift. 

 

If Merlin shows up, run the other way! He'll literally fuck up your life more than it already is and leave you to drive yourself crazy.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Who else did Merlin go to when she was a kid? Oh right, Emma! He gave her a cryptic message she's long forgotten about.

Either Merlin is a major idiot or this show has a lot of explaining to do.

 

 

At the end of the day, he succumbed to his own darkness, and he has a huge part of the responsibility, especially with what he did with the magic sand, but Merlin is no friggin' gift.

He reminds me a lot of Ben from Lost. He started out as an okay kid, then he was mildly abused. Later he joined the Others and became their leader, obsessed with carrying out Jacob's orders. (Who he had never met.) Then when he finally meets Jacob, 

he stabs him just like Arthur plans to do.

Edited October 19, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

I have to hand it to them, they've finally found a way to make me pull for Lancelot and Guinevere. I've always hated that story and haven't found it romantic at all. It sucks that Lance screwed over his friend. Come on, you're an adult. You learned to be a knight, which took a lot of self-discipline. You can control your urges. Not every feeling has to be acted upon. (This is also why I can't get on board with Aurora and Mulan and wasn't happy that apparently the only thing stopping Mulan from declaring her feelings was Aurora's pregnancy, not the fact that Philip was her friend before she even met Aurora.) But in this case, yeah, I'm kind of digging Lance and Gwen. For one thing, Arthur's an ass and Lance had his act together, and for another, hardly anything had actually happened and she initiated it, and then she was trying to be up-front with Arthur about leaving him and why she was doing so. She and Lancelot were behaving with some degree of honor. It was more a case of Arthur losing his wife by neglecting her than them doing things behind his back and Lancelot wooing her. Lancelot even tried to give Arthur credit for the nice things he did for her.

 

But we haven't seen Lancelot yet in Storybrooke, which has me worried.

[tennisgurl]

Other thoughts:

 

Snowing had a pretty good outing this week. Here I was smacking my forehead over Charming being the biggest dolt in the multiverse, than it turns out to be a part of the plan. And Snows "Shes not coming!" was perfect. Too bad they got brainwashed right after their win. They are going to have the magical equivalent of brain damage one of these days, the amount of times their heads have been screwed with. 

 

Captain Swan is the greatest thing ever. I just...they give me warm fuzzy feelings. 

[shoregirl]

I liked this episode. I even liked Regina, her "I get antsy when I don't know who to hate" line made me giggle. I am glad that David isn't that stupid though I was yelling unkind things at him. I loved Snow's "She's not coming" her tone was very old school Snow.

Everything about CS was great tonight. Hooks face when Henry told him about Violet was awesome. Emma and Hook hiding in the stalls and peeking out like dorky parents. The scene in the flowers was beautifully shot and acted.

[mjgchick]

Did I hear right that Arthur and Gwen share the same heart?

[shoregirl]

I thought I heard him say to Snowing that they weren't they only ones that shared a heart. Did david mention that at some point the last couple episodes? I can't recall. How else would he know that? Unless he knows more about them than they think he knows. I wonder if he knows who's really the savior as well. Maybe he just played along so they would trust him.

Edited October 19, 2015 by shoregirl

[KingOfHearts]

 

I loved Snow's "She's not coming" her tone was very old school Snow.

Yes! I caught the old Prince Charming and Bandit Snow for the first time in many moons. For once they knew what they were doing and totally rocked together. I'm disappointed that it was all in vein. They finally get to be cool again, and it rewards nothing.

[kili]

Okay, that was a fun episode. 

 

They totally had me cursing at the stupidity of Charming and then Snow, only to find out they did have a plan which was still kind of stupid, but a plan nonetheless. When a D students gets a C+, you have to congratulate them for improving. Snow was great with her "She's not coming". 

 

Regina was perfectly dosed and her snark worked.

 

Emma, Hook and Henry were cute. Arthur was a total scuzz-ball. Poor Gwen. 

 

While Arthur is a total jerk for magically drugging his wife (and others) all these years, I have to get behind his plan for killing Merlin. I'll hold his hat while he does it. Merlin is an epic dick. He is an entire regatta of douche canoes. He puts the ass in asshat.

 

I love that Camelot is made of magical sand. Even my tween was bagging on the show for wanting us to believe that Arthur built all that in five years - but it's an illusion so they seem to actually be paying attention to this stuff. And then they had continuity of sorts with callbacks to visions of wee Emma grabbing hearts and guantlets. There must be somebody new and powerful in the writer's room. 

 

If Merlin has been in the tree whispering to Arthur since he was a kid which was before the curse was cast (since the gauntlet exchange happened prior to that) which was prior to Emma being five years old, then how was Merlin creeping on her in the movie theatre? Is that really Merlin in the tree?

 

No wonder Arthur stole the toadstool. He doesn't need the toadstool to talk to Merlin in the tree and he also knows its pointless to talk to Merlin who will just prank you anyway. 

 

How does Merida know that Lancelot is in the crappy cell? She's only been in the prison for a day or two. She was whispering to whips a couple of days ago. 

 

I like that Violet may be rich enough to go to balls every three days, but her parents keep her grounded by having her muck out the stables.

[KAOS Agent]

I don't care if Snowing are brainwashed now. They fucked over Emma but good with their stupid plan that handed Arthur all the information he needed about the Dark One and the dagger. And then they have a confab with Regina & Robin about just handing over the dagger to Arthur. You notice who wasn't there for that? Emma. If Regina gives anyone the dagger without Emma's say so, she sucks too. Intentional or not, Snowing kind of deserve whatever bad thing Emma's got coming their way.

 

I'm not at all interested in Merida, so of course she's going to make Rumpel "brave" and we'll get a pointless episode of her backstory during whichever episode they're going to use to have Merida enact Emma's plan.

 

I thought it was really, really interesting that Hook lied to everyone about Emma hearing voices and telling them that she hadn't said a word.

 

Basically what I got from this episode was that if Hook had gone alone to get Emma, she'd be fine and they could have sailed away happily ever after on the Jolly Roger.

 

Arthur cannot be redeemed in my eyes. Magical rape is not ever something that can be overcome. He's a slimy guy who's obsessed with power, but can't handle it when the wife objects to being second place. Also, Merlin sucks.

 

Am I the only one who was wondering about the logistics of how Emma & Hook are going to have sex in a rose field while she's wearing a bright white dress? 

[kili]

Is Violet real or is she just part of the "fake Camelot"?

[pezgirl7]

Am I the only one who was wondering about the logistics of how Emma & Hook are going to have sex in a rose field while she's wearing a bright white dress?

Can't she take off her dress and lay down on Hook's leather coat? And perhaps these special Camelot roses that grow in a field instead of on a bush don't have thorns. I haven't thought about it at all really... Edited October 19, 2015 by pezgirl7

[twoods]

It also makes me nervous we haven't seen Lancelot in Storybrooke. Hope he's not dead. I want him and Gwen to have their happily ever after. Arthur is nuts, and now Snowing are brainwashed? Nothing good can come of this.

Captain Swan are adorable, but Hook's reaction to Henry's crush was just as good. Colin makes everything better.

[Camera One]

I was actually reasonably engaged with this one, and didn't miss the current Storybrooke stuff.  The backstory with Arthur wasn't too bad, that is, up until he mind-controlled Guinevere.  I could buy him becoming obsessive about fixing the broken sword.  The concept of Camelot being an illusion I did like.  He was a little too bwahahaha towards the end, though.

 

The writers for once allowed Snowing to be smart, but ironically built the episode dependent on us assuming Charming or Snow or both were idiotic and gullible.  I loved Snow and Charming smack talking Arthur, but if you look back, there was no reason why they would have told Arthur every last secret they had.  That was solely so we would be "surprised" at the end.  To me, that's just bad writing.  Finally, allowing Snowing to be proactive and kickass is awesome of course, but I guess every good thing comes with a price.  In this case, that also means being mind-controlled in the last second.  Like that isn't frustrating to watch at all.  We get Snowing with awesome agency for 5 minutes, and presumably, they'll spend the rest of the arc flashbacks with zero agency?  Grreat.

 

I outwardly groaned when I saw Merida again.  I liked "Brave", but the cliffhanger of Merida being Dark Emma's "secret weapon" and turning Gold brave was stupid and doesn't interest me in the slightest.  Why did she have to tie her to the front of the yellow bug?  

 

The Hook and Emma scenes dragged a little and were a tad too cheesy, though the sentiments of Emma being able to get Rumple out of her mind at the end was nice.

 

Although this episode was fine, it did make me less excited for the upcoming ones due to the "twists" we were given.

 

As said above, the "Many Years Ago" and then the repeat Sword unsheathing scene, and then "Years later" (when everyone looked exactly the same) and finally "Five Years Ago" was even more unintentionally hilarious than usual.

[Souris]

Am I the only one who got confused by the dark goop floating around in the Dark One's vault? Isn't it supposed to be tethered to him? WTF was that?

 

Guard goop?

 

Hook also called Merida a fiery Scot when I'm pretty sure there's no Scotland in Fairytale Land.  

 

I know, right? See, this is the sort of thing that drives me crazy and that is easily fixed by a good editor -- which, clearly, Once lacks.

 

In reply to an earlier comment, I don't think Gwen and Lancelot ever had an affair. They shared one kiss, said it would never happen again, and then Lancelot left town.

 

Yes, they didn't have an actual affair. He left before it went it any further.

 

I thought it was a very enjoyable episode. Poor, poor Emma in Camelot. I just wanted to wrap her in a blanket and give her soup. The Rumple in her head is driving her mad.

 

Normally I don't like when eps focus so much on guest stars, but in this case the Camelot backstory actually held my interest. (It probably helps that I went through a big Arthurian phase in college!) Arthur is really scum for using that dust on Guinevere. This show really does have HUGE issues with consent. How can they not see this? I felt for both Guinevere and Lancelot. I think Arthur became utterly obsessed with making Excalibur whole and totally lost sight of other ways to help Camelot, just like Guinevere said. I do expect that the show will end up "redeeming" him and he'll see the error of his ways. 

 

Of course I especially enjoyed the Emma and Hook scenes. I love how he is always so concerned for her and was able to get her to forget about the Rumple in her head for awhile. And I love that she opened up to him about what was going on in her head. It's very important for couples to share that stuff. The scene of them kissing in the meadow was gorgeous! Dark Swan still having the rose he gave her shows that Emma is still in there and still loving him.

 

The scene of them with Henry and his crush was so cute, too. Loved Hook's reactions.

 

I was getting very annoyed with both Snow and Charming for blindingly believing Lancelot and Arthur (I may have called them a few choice names), so I was super relieved when it turned out they were playing both of them. Great to see them being badass again! Although now they're totally in Arthur's thrall, so that isn't good, and now he knows about the dagger. He's clearly the cause of whatever they did that makes Emma so mad at them.

 

This ep was the proper amount of Regina: just a couple of scenes.

 

I'm afraid Lancelot won't make it out of Camelot alive, since he's not in SB.

 

The timeline is so effed up.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Souris

[Camera One]

So Lancelot has been skulking around Camelot for a while, and knows Arthur is full-out evil, to the point where he doesn't show his face (but walks around openly in the castle).  Yet he had zero idea Guinevere was affected?  He knew Guinevere didn't use the Sands of Avalon on the Sword because the Sword is still broken, and yet he couldn't figure out until it was too late that Arthur had used the Sands on Guinevere?  

 

This episode still makes a great "hero" look stupid.

 

New competition for Maybelline.  Maybe she's born with it.  Maybe it's Avalon.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

Does anyone else wonder why Arthur couldn't just take the sword and add a new end to it? Wouldn't that be a lot easier than looking for the broken piece?

[tanita]

Boring episode. To much Arthur, Guinevere and Lancelot. I did like their take on the triangle and that fact that Arthur is the real betrayer in this scenario. 

Love Snow and Charming this episode - finally some wit about them even though they got dusted at the end.

Not enough Regina for me. Never enough Regina for me.

Not enough Henry, with either of his moms.

On the other hand too much Captain Swan - blah.

Robert needs to stay in two roles or more at the same time from now on. More Dark one Rumple, more Gold.

Edited October 19, 2015 by tanita

[Randomosity]

Am I the only one who was wondering about the logistics of how Emma & Hook are going to have sex in a rose field while she's wearing a bright white dress? 

 

Your sentence totally reminded me of the song "First of May" by Jonathan Coulton. I won't link, because it's NSFW, but it's easily Googleable and made me LOL when I listened with Captain Swan in mind.

 

Oh, and a couple things I forgot to mention earlier:

-Rumple's allusion to Milah was actually a nice nod to some continuity

-Hook wants a white picket fence future in Storybrooke *swoon*

-Guard goo in the vault was perplexing to me too

-ITA that it seemed like Belle would be who Dark Swan had tied up, not random Merida

[Mari]

Imagined Rumple is in the corner providing commentary.

 

*shudder* Ew.

 

I know, right?  I don't think I'd be having extra-special rose field time if that were even a remote possibility.

 

If Merlin has been in the tree whispering to Arthur since he was a kid which was before the curse was cast (since the gauntlet exchange happened prior to that) which was prior to Emma being five years old, then how was Merlin creeping on her in the movie theatre? Is that really Merlin in the tree?

Yes.  This.  

 

Yeah, right, the timeline tracks.  (No, I have no faith in the showrunners on this.)

[FormerMod-a1]

I wonder if it is really Merlin in the tree, or anyone in the tree, really.  I also agree with Guinevere, that Arthur should just go about being a king and restoring Camelot - he doesn't need the tip of his sword for that.  (that sounds dirty, some how)  He's way too obsessed with power and fulfilling his conveniently self-serving prophesy.  

[PixiePaws1]

Just because Arthur thinks he heard Merlin doesn't mean it really was....does it?

[buffynut]

Nice to see that this show just keeps crapping on Arthurian legend. At least I'm entertained by it so far.

 

Since I don't really know the Arthurian legend, guess this isn't really the best introduction to it then.

 

This episode reminded me how little I care about Merida. I thought Emma was holding Belle hostage for a second.

 

Me too.  I totally was expecting to see Belle. 

 

I liked the movie "Brave" but I can't for the life of me figure out why I'm supposed to care about Merida being in Camelot or Storybrooke.

 

Never saw Brave, so I don't know who Merida is.  No wonder I find this season confusing.  And a bit boring.

[Randomosity]

Never saw Brave, so I don't know who Merida is.  No wonder I find this season confusing.  And a bit boring.

 

Brave was ok, so I don't completely mind Merida. My biggest problems with her are a) she's just thrown haphazardly in with these other storylines and b) she was a kid for the whole length of the movie, if I'm remembering correctly. OUAT's Merida is just too damn old. Shouldn't she be Henry's age, max? And they could have actually made her a bit more integrated with the plot if she was his age, because then she could have been his cutesy crush instead of random iPod/stable girl (who may have a real purpose later, but as far as I know now, is no one special and thus could easily have been Merida instead).

Edited October 19, 2015 by Randomosity

[YaddaYadda]

Am I the only one who was wondering about the logistics of how Emma & Hook are going to have sex in a rose field while she's wearing a bright white dress?

 

Who cares if she's wearing white! There are really good detergents out there to take the the grass stains out of clothes. 

 

Plus, he was going to lay her in a bed of roses.

 

About the timeline, time in Camelot is as broken as the kingdom, and the sword. My friend went all math on me last night, and I think maybe she gave this more thought than the writers, but Lancelot leaving Camelot 5 years ago in Camelot's timeline. In the Enchanted Forest, it's been something like 32-33 years.

 

Merlin's prophecy that Arthur found out about a decade ago, was more like a little over 60 years ago in "real" time.

 

Arthur looks to be in his mid-30s, just like Hook who spent centuries in Neverland. But Arthur is more like 230 years old in real time, than mid-30s guy.

 

The concept of time in Camelot is similar to the one in Neverland, except that people do age, but at a very, very slow pace.

 

The only thing that doesn't fit is Percival's story.

[kili]

Does anyone else wonder why Arthur couldn't just take the sword and add a new end to it? Wouldn't that be a lot easier than looking for the broken piece?

That's exactly what Gwen was going to do with the dust, but she decided to be honourable (or something) and not deceive her husband. 

 

The reason Arthur doesn't consider it is: Merlin.

 

Merlin has fed Arthur a steady stream of garbage his entire life. He has told him that Arthur is noble and worthy of Camelot. That he will go on a great quest to retrieve the sword and save his entire broken kingdom. But, when he pulls the sword from the stone, it too is broken. All those years of hope and faith are crushed. But is Merlin finished mind-f'ing Arthur? He is not. He leaves Arthur a bunch of clues to solve. Arthur is convinced that if he just solves one more clue, he will finally fulfill his destiny. Arthur can't let go of the dream. He can't let go of his destiny because he has too much invested in it already.

 

He's like one of those deluded people on the Dragon's Den (Shark Tank) who has spent years of their lives and all their money on a bad business idea and Jim has to yell at them to stop because it is clearly never going to work. But does that stop them? No, They have too much invested and they just try a little harder, it will all pay off. Gwen tried to get Arthur to stop and he drugged her. I expect an epiphany at some point and it isn't going to be pretty.

 

Merlin sucks so much. I bet when he's not busy pretending to be in a tree whispering to Arthur, he's phoning up people to tell them that Microsoft has detected a virus or sending phishing e-mails. Arthur should just set the tree on fire. 

 

After seeing what Merlin did to Arthur, I'm convinced whoever is supposedly in the tree is Earworm Imp.

[DeLurker]

All I got from this episode was the show is still using magic as the cop-out instead of letting their characters make a mistake or make any decision. 

 

And Rumple gives them enough magical sand for multiple uses?  Every other bit of magic stuff is one and done.  Lazy writing.

 

And how does the orphaned stable boy Arthur learn to read multiple languages and write?  Minor nit, compared to other things...

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Wow, kudos to the casting people for finding a kid who totally looked like young Arthur.

 

Hook's face during the stable scene was hilarious. I rewound three times in a row because I was cracking up at his expressions.

 

There have definitely been times in the past when I didn't like the twists that they gave to some of the fairy tales used on the show, but I liked the way they changed the Arthur/Guinevere/Lancelot triangle which is more complicated and interesting this way.

 

I can see why Arthur's obsession with finding the other part of the sword was so freaking annoying to Guinevere. I know you want to make your kingdom a great place, but seriously, take a few hours off on your wife's birthday.

[Selina K]

Best part of the episode:

 

Henry: "Well ... there's this girl ..."

Hook: "Is there, indeed? Well, I like this tale already!"

Henry: "It's not like that."

Hook's eyebrow: "Dude, it is TOTALLY like that."

 

Other episode reactions: Yay, Captain Swan!  Yay, Snowing being actually people.  Boo, Arthur.  Boo, consent issues - please learn here, show.

[PixiePaws1]

I find it interesting that Killian has not asked Emma straight out what he did to betray her in Camelot.. I can't imagine he is afraid to, he's the type of personality to want to know exactly what he did however much it might hurt. He has only asked what happened.

I believe he didn't actively betray her ..unless Arthur 'dusted' him. Her treatment of him has been manipulative and cruel but it doesn't seem to be punishment or revenge she is taking out on him. It is her means to whatever end she is working towards.

I also think it odd that we got the big romantic moment in Camelot in this episode and not in last week's to provide even more contrast with last week's date from hell.

[Panopticon]

Wow, kudos to the casting people for finding a kid who totally looked like young Arthur.

 

 

This show rarely misses when it comes to that.

 

One of my guilty wishes is for a curse of the week to turn everyone into a teenager. It would be stupid, campy, cheesy, awful, and unbearably fanficcy.

 

But... the casting! 

[Randomosity]

I can't wait to see Hook as a young'un, if they ever give him a childhood back story.

[daxx]

Just because Arthur thinks he heard Merlin doesn't mean it really was....does it?

I suspect Merlin is not in the tree but Nimue is. Possibly they both are I suppose.

[TwistedandBored]

And Rumple gives them enough magical sand for multiple uses?  Every other bit of magic stuff is one and done.  Lazy writing.

 

And how does the orphaned stable boy Arthur learn to read multiple languages and write?  Minor nit, compared to other things...

 

Yeah. Apparently Rumple just free gave them a sand magic they can use multiple times instead of his usual quota of one time use items.