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S05.E04: The Broken Kingdom


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I'm wondering if Arthur heard the whole prophecy or only heard part of it, got excited and ran off. Meanwhile Merlin is back in the tree going, "Hey, that's not all! Come back and hear the rest! Stupid kid ..."

 

I'm still getting Shakespearean tragic antihero vibes from Arthur -- the kind of thing where he heard a prophecy, decided on its interpretation, and set out to MAKE it come true (or prevent it) in such a way that it ended up bringing about the most tragic outcome. How much of Arthur's actions were dictated by the actual prophecy he heard, and how much by the stuff he uncovered in his own research?

 

And is treed Merlin giving him ongoing updates? Like, he knew about the sword in the stone and that it was possibly his destiny, but he seemed surprised by the missing piece. Did he get the later info about the Dark One, dagger, etc., from Merlin, or was that his own research so he could bring about all that kingdom healing stuff from the initial prophecy he heard as a child?

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<oprah voice>And you get some sands of Avalon! And you get some sands of Avalon! Everyone gets sands of Avalon!</>

 

Just some random thoughts:

  • In case anyone else was wondering where they saw baby bully Kaye before, it's Jonas from Degrassi!
  • It's nice to see that just like in Storybrooke, a kingdom is apparently made up of only about 20 people.
  • So if most of Camelot is an allusion, does that mean our main characters have all been sleeping on the ground and not knowing it? Ouch.

 

I didn't see that much chemistry between Gwen and Lancelot honestly. And Jesus she kissed him in a moment of weakness and then they said goodbye. It's not like some long torrid affair. The three of you need to get over yourselves. MARRIAGE IS HARD, DEAL WITH IT.

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Just some random thoughts:

I didn't see that much chemistry between Gwen and Lancelot honestly. And Jesus she kissed him in a moment of weakness and then they said goodbye. It's not like some long torrid affair. The three of you need to get over yourselves. MARRIAGE IS HARD, DEAL WITH IT.

I kind of think that's the point though. Arthur's so insane at this point that he saw a huge thing where nothing existed. And to be honest, I kind of got the vibe that even if Gwen wasn't into Lancelot, Lancelot was very much into Gwen. He seemed like one of those guys who's into a woman but he's too scared to say anything about it so he keeps shut for fear of losing her completely. And no, that's definitely not the voice of experience talking. Edited by DigitalCount
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He seemed like one of those guys who's into a woman but he's too scared to say anything about it so he keeps shut for fear of losing her completely.

Or he's honorable enough to not make a play for his best friend's wife and knows nothing good would come of saying anything about it because what does he expect her to do, ditch her husband? So better to stay quiet and be her friend and be there for her than make things awkward and difficult. Not every feeling must be expressed, and if he really loves her, then better to be there for her and help her than make things potentially worse for her.

 

It was definitely Arthur's paranoia making it out like there was a massive betrayal when Guinevere actually chose him and Lancelot was leaving. But to justify Lancelot's departure, I guess he had to spread it around Camelot that Lancelot betrayed him and tried to steal his wife.

 

This is a rare case of their "these are the stories you know, but the stories aren't quite the way you know them" concept really working. The Camelot story as we know it turns out to be a PR job by Arthur.

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This season's key words seem to be less hit you over the head than 4B's use of happy endings, but that won't stop me. In this week's episode, the Dark One trounced the Saviour 13-1 giving it a 53-25 lead in the battle of Dark vs Light. In that same vein, Darkness got a total of seven mentions this week for a total of 30 for the season.

 

In the interest of assessing the how "Snuff out" is this half season's "Cleave myself from the dagger", I also counted those mentions and we've got one for each of the last three episodes. Surprisingly, cleaving was only mentioned five times in 4A, so snuff out looks like it will have no difficulty in taking it on for most annoying phrase.

 

As an aside, the whole stars aligning thing was ridiculously annoying last season, so negative points to the showrunners for using the phrase in a recent interview.  

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I usually think the casting is Spot On, but Guinevere is incredibly unattractive imho.

Beady puffy eyes, beak like lips...really? Thats the most beautiful woman in the kingdom?

Seriously....what were they thinking? Who the hell is she sleeping with to get that role?

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I think Gwen looks gorgeous, but the acting skills are rather lacking. Once's classic formula is to have terrible writing that's lifted up by a strong acting performance, but Gwen's actress just isn't emoting enough or something. I don't know what it is...lack of charisma? Dullness? Compared to the other strong performances on the show, she's underwhelming.

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I think the actress is doing a decent enough job, actually. I thought especially in this episode, there was kind of a distinction between pre-sanded Gwen and sanded Gwen. 

 

I think Gwen looks gorgeous

Yes, she is. 

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This show has always struggled with shades of grey, in my opinion. Either something or someone is all good, or all bad. Snow killed someone? Its EVIL. Regina saved the town? Its GOOD. It didn't really make Snow evil, but what she did was portrayed as the WRONG choice, no one saying that what she did might have been necessary. No messy moral questions.  They have characters that turn from good to bad, but there is rarely any kind of in between. Heroes and villains swap roles, but there is no villain who is kind of good, or hero that is a little bad. At least, not anymore really.  

 

 

 

That makes this show less then enthralling to watch. S1 we knew Regina and Rump were evil in their world but they just seemed kind of shady and disreputable here...they werent kiillling people etc and Regina's goal of protecting the curse and getting Henry's baby mama out of town for good was relatable if not heroic or good.  It was interesting especially since Emma wasnt a saint herself though she is the heroine and savior.

 

The curse broke and you would think the characters would be adjusting to a world where people can go back and forth from being "heroes'" and villains and people can be a little bit of both..but no, they may as well be in that stupid Enchanted Forest the way they spout off about it. The lure of the show is seeing these iconic characters as real people and the show fails to deliver that.

 

Speaking of , now that Rump is depowered and no one is left to protect him, why wanst a gang of furious Storybrookers outside his door waiting to kill him? It woudl have been fun to watch Blue have to protect her nemesis.

Edited by Mitch
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S1 we knew Regina and Rump were evil in their world but they just seemed kind of shady and disreputable here...they werent kiillling people etc and Regina's goal of protecting the curse and getting Henry's baby mama out of town for good was relatable if not heroic or good.

 

In Season 1, Regina killed Graham and arranged for the death of Katherine to frame Mary Margaret. She also attempted to logically kill Emma, but got her son instead. I would agree that Gold was  ambiguous and shades of grey in the first season (especially when he thwarted the plan to kill Katherine - although his beating of Mo was pretty dark), but Regina was definitely doing all kinds of evil things in Storybrooke. She was evil in both realms and they weren't shy about saying it (like how she tried to hussle Hansel and Gretel out of town when letting them be with their father wouldn't have cost her anything and you would think she could have had some empathy for them when they'd done nothing to her in any realm).  

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babyPhat279, on 24 Oct 2015 - 05:51 AM, said:

What did Rumple say about Milah that people have been mentioning? I don't recall hearing anything.

 

I like that the dark one vault has a passcode, but no 2-step verification. Shame on you, DO. Security is everyone's weakness.

He didn't mention Milah by name. He said something about a woman choosing between duty and desire; that it doesn't always end well .

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In Season 1, Regina killed Graham and arranged for the death of Katherine to frame Mary Margaret. She also attempted to logically kill Emma, but got her son instead. I would agree that Gold was  ambiguous and shades of grey in the first season (especially when he thwarted the plan to kill Katherine - although his beating of Mo was pretty dark), but Regina was definitely doing all kinds of evil things in Storybrooke. She was evil in both realms and they weren't shy about saying it (like how she tried to hussle Hansel and Gretel out of town when letting them be with their father wouldn't have cost her anything and you would think she could have had some empathy for them when they'd done nothing to her in any realm).  

 

True, but she also, in her mind was "pushed to it," and did feel (as much as she can) pain.  Now Regina haters dont get into a fit, I am not defending her actions I am just saying she did have more shades of grey in S1 then she did now..be it as she was "undercover," or whatever, but it was more fun to watch. EQ in their stupid world and our world is a bit much to take (as even the CGI scenery that got chewed will tell you.)  It wasnt until they rewrote the rules of Storybrooke in"Welcome," that we see that Regina could use hearts in our world to control people, and killed a man with her bare hands and left a child fatherless and felt no remorse (and apparently the writers didnt either) ...that she was EVIL all along and a cartoon to boot. I am not defending her again, but killing someone to cover up her dark secret (Graham) gives her a motivation that as a fictional villain works, and makes her seem more real then "I AM the EVIL QUEEN" and buring villages.

 

Both Rump and Regina as S! villains had a clear cut reason to be a villain and some depth, as did Emma and even the Charmings (who were more tolerable cursed, I am with Regina on that one)  while the rest of the silly heroes and villains we have seen since have no depth at all.

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True, but [Regina] also, in her mind was "pushed to [murder]," and did feel (as much as she can) pain.

One of the reasons the cops always try to figure out a motive is because most killers have one. Murderers generally feel justified in their own minds for killing somebody, but it doesn't make it less evil (unless they are in a kill or be killed situation). 

 

In both Storybook and the Enchanted Forest Regina kills for the same reason - somebody is in the way of one of her goals. The fact that she feels pity for herself because of the pain it gives her to murder people, only cements her as a psycopath. She doesn't feel bad for her dad because she murdered him. She feels bad because she had to do it (to reach her goal of punishing  a 10 year old). In Season 1, she is a full on evil. I see no shades of grey until Season 2.

 

In this episode Dark Swan is also evil in that she doesn't care about the potential harm that she is doing to Merida. In a way, I really wish Merida had been a character that we cared about (like Charming or Belle) so that the impact of her wrongness would resonate more. That is why the writers made us care about Graham before Regina killed him. These writers probably don't want to clean up the mess that they are making with Dark Swan so having her be cruel to uninvested characters is a way of upping the anti, but not having to live with the consequences. I'm torn, because I don't want to see Emma punished for saving the town and ending up Dark.

Edited by kili
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The thing is, I think they want us/expect us to care about Merida.  The image of Dark Swan having tied her to the front of the car is actually really disturbing to me.  It was so unnecessary, and makes no sense.  I don't understand if this is supposed to tell us something about Dark Swan's mindset or if it was just a "cool" sight gag.

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I don't understand if this is supposed to tell us something about Dark Swan's mindset or if it was just a "cool" sight gag.

I'm going with "cool site gag". Why not have her tied up in the guest bed room (it's a huge house)? Or rip her heart out right away and just have her sit nicely in the media room? Tying Merida up to a bumper in the middle of an underpass is just asking for somebody to find her - granted, they tend to use culvert style underpasses in lower traffic areas, but you've got people running around catching their dinner so anybody could be anywhere. 

 

It's such a bizarre thing to do. Tie her up in the car if you must, but to the bumper? Who isn't going to notice that? 

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I usually think the casting is Spot On, but Guinevere is incredibly unattractive imho.

Beady puffy eyes, beak like lips...really? Thats the most beautiful woman in the kingdom?

Seriously....what were they thinking? Who the hell is she sleeping with to get that role?

 

I disagree. Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. I like her. And think Joana Metrass didn't had to sleep with anyone of the people in charge on the show or anywhere else to get the job.

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I usually think the casting is Spot On, but Guinevere is incredibly unattractive imho.

Beady puffy eyes, beak like lips...really? Thats the most beautiful woman in the kingdom?

Seriously....what were they thinking? Who the hell is she sleeping with to get that role?

I was just really disappointed...I usually love the casting...but she just underwhelmed for sure. Ive always thought of Gwen as a great, almost ethereal beauty...I wouldnt take a second look at this girl if I saw her on the street.

Also, Im prepared gor the backlash, but geeez! Snow still is so chunky! Cant blame baby weight forever. Im actually really surprised so hasnt lost it yet. And please know, Im talking about Hollywood actresses, not the average mom...ok?

She was so tiny, and really into fashion IRL, I figured she would be back in shape by now.

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She's not as small as I'd expect her to be, no, but she's also not as big as she looks in the episodes. At the Disney expo she liked really good. I think a lot of it has to do with how they are dressing her, to be honest.

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Are we really doing this? Picking apart the looks of the actresses?

 

1. This is an episode thread.

2. Even if it wasn't, it's just not right. But I can't expect anything nice since women are really good at tearing each other down. So nicely done.

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Are we really doing this? Picking apart the looks of the actresses?

1. This is an episode thread.

2. Even if it wasn't, it's just not right. But I can't expect anything nice since women are really good at tearing each other down. So nicely done.

Yup! Lol and thank u! Edited by Christi
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I'd post a link to South Park's "Safe Space" video in response to these comments, but I'm afraid we've already veered way off the intended purpose of the episode thread...

 

Anyways. Back to episode discussion. So Arthur mentioned that he wants to run Merlin through with Excalibur, but why is he so against Merlin now? He seems to take Merlin's prophecies extremely seriously, but he's now at the point where he wants to kill him. Is he so fed up with Merlin's half truths that he wants him dead? I thought that maybe Arthur just wanted to keep Merlin trapped inside the tree forever when he stole the mushroom from David, but he can't exactly kill Merlin if he doesn't get him out of the tree. If Arthur can't release Merlin himself, why not trick the Storybrooke crew into releasing Merlin for him and then kill him that way?

Edited by Curio
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That was part of the bwahwhwah moment at the end that sort of came out of nowhere.  Much of the episode presented Arthur as simply wanting to reforge the sword and forgetting about Merlin.  But in that evil-villain-reveal-moment, they made him declare much more.

 

"I have waited a lifetime for this.  Now I control your daughter.  I can command her to reunite the sword and free merlin.  Excalibur's blade will be the last thing he sees before i use it to run him through.  Then I will use the blade to snuff out the darkness once and for all.  I can become what no one thought I could -- The greatest king in all the realms."

 

Oh yeah, and he wants to be the greatest king in ALL the realms too.  Riiiiiiiiight...

Edited by Camera One
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Really over the flashback, flashforward, flashsideways stuff also...ugh..Im too dumb to keep trying to figure out when/when the hell r we?

See I dont just hate the fat ugly people .

I hate the timeline stuff too!

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Random question, but I wonder where Zelena (who was missing from this episode, as were Robin and Belle) is?  She didn't appear back in Storybrooke with the others, so obviously, something happened to her in Camelot.  Maybe she's playing a part in Emma's plan?  Or Arthur's?

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Random question, but I wonder where Zelena (who was missing from this episode, as were Robin and Belle) is?  She didn't appear back in Storybrooke with the others, so obviously, something happened to her in Camelot.

Zelena is back in Storybook. We saw her in Grannies when it arrived back in town (she's in the back of the crowd). We can also assume that she had her sonogram when she got back since the baby was too small before. 

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Christi, on 24 Oct 2015 - 3:20 PM, said:

Really over the flashback, flashforward, flashsideways stuff also...ugh..Im too dumb to keep trying to figure out when/when the hell r we?

See I dont just hate the fat ugly people .

I hate the timeline stuff too!

Pro Tip: Just because you've got a shovel, doesn't mean you need to keep digging ;-)

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Tough room

I meant to say, the show, the characters, the casting and EVERY plot device are AMAZING!!

Im in my South Park Safe Space now...with my Comfort Animal

you r right..Opinions are BAD!

Edited by Christi
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Tough room

I meant to say, the show, the characters, the casting and EVERY plot device are AMAZING!!

Im in my South Park Safe Space now...with my Comfort Animal

you r right..Opinions are BAD!

Oh my GOSH lol

Honestly tho...I apologize, I thought this was a discussion forum, like the others on this site...not just a Fan Page.

Ive watched every episode since day 1...so I thought opinions were ok...my bad

We've all criticized the show extensively.  Some of us have criticized performers, performances, and at times the rest of the fandom.

 

You get to have opinions.   You're welcome to have them, and express them all you want.

 

But so do the people who think you're wrong.

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Of course people can disagree! But the the body shaming! women attacking women comment and using a shovel to dig myself out of something?

Come ooooon..

Its a tv show...have opinions and disagree all you want...but the personal attacks are ridiculous..

I body shamed Snow White...omg lol

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Bully-proof windows; troll-safe doors...

 

That was part of the bwahwhwah moment at the end that sort of came out of nowhere.  Much of the episode presented Arthur as simply wanting to reforge the sword and forgetting about Merlin.  But in that evil-villain-reveal-moment, they made him declare much more.

 

"I have waited a lifetime for this.  Now I control your daughter.  I can command her to reunite the sword and free merlin.  Excalibur's blade will be the last thing he sees before i use it to run him through.  Then I will use the blade to snuff out the darkness once and for all.  I can become what no one thought I could -- The greatest king in all the realms."

 

Oh yeah, and he wants to be the greatest king in ALL the realms too.  Riiiiiiiiight...

 

I wish the show found a way to make the bad guys' monologuing not seem so...monologue-y. Like, way to reveal your entire plan. (I guess Snow and Charming did the same thing earlier in the episode.) But it's hard to totally hate on Arthur because snuffing out the darkness is a commendable goal. And Merlin seems super shady with all his prophesizing to kids and telling half truths that lead to people destroying their lives over confusing riddles, so I'd be pretty upset with Merlin too.

Edited by Curio
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At least they didn't have Arthur do a "All I want is to be your FRIEND" before throwing Avalon sand in Snowing's face.  The Snow Queen monologue about all she wants is a family who loved her didn't work for me as a cliffhanger.

Edited by Camera One
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I wish the show found a way to make the bad guys' monologuing not seem so...monologue-y. Like, way to reveal your entire plan. (I guess Snow and Charming did the same thing earlier in the episode.) But it's hard to totally hate on Arthur because snuffing out the darkness is a commendable goal. And Merlin seems super shady with all his prophesizing to kids and telling half truths that lead to people destroying their lives over confusing riddles, so I'd be pretty upset with Merlin too.

It's a commendable goal, but, well, ridiculous?

 

As much as I'd like all evil to be snuffed out, it's not a realistic goal--just like the "snuff out the light" goal isn't feasible, either.

 

Unless they're talking about a specific evil event, person, or thing?  Not gonna happen.  It's a ridiculous goal, unless you are an omnipotent deity, which, well, our characters . . . aren't.  

 

I'm not annoyed with the characters on this;  I'm annoyed with the writers.  I don't even know quite who/what to root for, because the ridiculousness keeps throwing me out of the story.  

 

And, yes, if we are supposed to be impressed with Merlin's wisdom and . . . goodness?  They're failing.  So far, he's creepy, wrong, and ineffectual.

 

As for the monologuing, would scenes where two or three of the characters get together and actually plan out what their plan is work?  Or maybe an action scene, with a voice over?  

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It's a commendable goal, but, well, ridiculous?

 

As much as I'd like all evil to be snuffed out, it's not a realistic goal--just like the "snuff out the light" goal isn't feasible, either.

 

See, I thought Arthur's goal was to just snuff out that darkness cloud thing that makes the Dark One the "Dark One." Of course evil will still exist in the world, but at least that specific darkness cloud that turns good people evil would be destroyed. Unless Arthur was talking about snuffing out all darkness, then yeah...that's not a feasible goal.

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The whole concept of Darkness is so ill-defined, that it is impossible to know what snuffing out all Darkness even means.  As it is, Arthur is just spewing whatever with no idea what he's talking about.  Typical villain/hero, he hasn't thought beyond making Excalibur whole with the Dagger.  Regina the most powerful light magical user ever didn't have a chance with the Darkness blob.  Neither did Merlin's very own Apprentice.   Clearly, Merlin couldn't even do it.  Everyone must sit and wait patiently for the deus-ex-machina in six episodes.  

Edited by Camera One
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Christi, on 24 Oct 2015 - 5:41 PM, said:

Of course people can disagree! But the the body shaming! women attacking women comment and using a shovel to dig myself out of something?

Come ooooon..

Its a tv show...have opinions and disagree all you want...but the personal attacks are ridiculous..

I body shamed Snow White...omg lol

Actually, I meant that it seemed you were just digging yourself in deeper. Doubling down, as it were. Opinions are like assholes, you know, everybody's got one and some of them stink. Say what you like, even if it is in poor taste. Just don't be surprised if you get some push back.

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So Arthur mentioned that he wants to run Merlin through with Excalibur, but why is he so against Merlin now? He seems to take Merlin's prophecies extremely seriously, but he's now at the point where he wants to kill him. Is he so fed up with Merlin's half truths that he wants him dead?

Perhaps, like many a villain on this show, he blames Merlin for ruining his life by giving him that prophecy that's forced him to devote his whole life to getting the sword and then the dagger.

 

Or he might be worried that Merlin wouldn't approve of the way he went about things and needs to get him out of the way before he blabs to everyone else that Arthur screwed up. Though in that case, why not leave him in the tree? Unless, I suppose, he's worried that treed Merlin could talk to someone else the way he talked to him.

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Perhaps, like many a villain on this show, he blames Merlin for ruining his life by giving him that prophecy that's forced him to devote his whole life to getting the sword and then the dagger.

 

Or he might be worried that Merlin wouldn't approve of the way he went about things and needs to get him out of the way before he blabs to everyone else that Arthur screwed up. Though in that case, why not leave him in the tree? Unless, I suppose, he's worried that treed Merlin could talk to someone else the way he talked to him.

 

Only discussing this show do we ever have to resort to statements such as "leave him in the tree."  LOL

 

Just really highlights the writing fail, right there, doesn't it? ;-)

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Honestly, I can't stop laughing at 'Merlin in a tree' or the 'treed Merlin'. 

 

Loved Hook and Emma it was really good. The scenes with them

and Henry and Henry's girlfriend was really cute.  It was nice

to see Charming and Snow doing something, having a plan

even though in the end they got a face full of dust.

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Rewatching this one before the new one, and I really had to laugh at the fact that Snow said, "We aren't telling Arthur anything until we know we can trust him." And then step one of their brilliant plan to determine whether they could trust Arthur was to tell him everything -- and not just their own secrets. They ratted out Lancelot, who was definitely not in on the plan. Genius move, guys.

 

I found it interesting that Emma had Rumple tied up in almost exactly the same way Rumple tied up Hook when he took his heart. There was even a convenient iron fence in the basement. I wonder if Emma has Dark One memories of that and did it on purpose.

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A bit of a better episode but I'm not really blown away by Arthur as a villain either. Adding to the fact that he's got Guinevere, Snow and David under his control and he's a bit of a bastard though.

 

I do like the potential teaming of Merida and Lancelot though.

 

Emma using Merida to make Gold 'brave' is an interesting enough move.

 

Not much for Regina to do this week though Hook and Henry had some decent moments, 7/10

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Mari, on 25 Oct 2015 - 7:45 PM, said:

Nice catch, Shanna Marie.  

 

I hope so.  It would be an interesting vindictive touch in her treatment of Rumple..  

If only they weren't trying to distance Rumple from all evil he did as DO...

INTERIOR: Emma's basement

Rumple is tied to the fence. Emma stands before him.

DS: Now that I've got you here, I'd like to show you something.

With a cold, slow smile, she reaches into his chest, rips out his heart and then holds it out so he can see. 

DS: This is what you did to Hook. You ripped out his heart to make him do your dirty work, and then you were going to crush it and kill him, keeping me frozen with your magic so I couldn't stop you. I know that's what you did to him when you killed Milah. So tell me, as the current Dark One, why shouldn't I get Belle down here and put her through that same agony?

Rumple: Because she saved the pirate's life.

Emma gives Rumple's heart a squeeze. He flinches and gasps in pain.

DS: Try again!

Rumple: Because she stopped me from killing the pirate.

DS: Lucky for you, isn't it?

Emma slams Rumple's heart back into his chest.

DS: I'm not done with you. Not by a long shot. You're gonna get me what I want.

Emma swirls away in a cloud of magic.

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If only they weren't trying to distance Rumple from all evil he did as DO...

INTERIOR: Emma's basement

Rumple is tied to the fence. Emma stands before him.

DS: Now that I've got you here, I'd like to show you something.

With a cold, slow smile, she reaches into his chest, rips out his heart and then holds it out so he can see.

DS: This is what you did to Hook. You ripped out his heart to make him do your dirty work, and then you were going to crush it and kill him, keeping me frozen with your magic so I couldn't stop you. I know that's what you did to him when you killed Milah. So tell me, as the current Dark One, why shouldn't I get Belle down here and put her through that same agony?

Rumple: Because she saved the pirate's life.

Emma gives Rumple's heart a squeeze. He flinches and gasps in pain.

DS: Try again!

Rumple: Because she stopped me from killing the pirate.

DS: Lucky for you, isn't it?

Emma slams Rumple's heart back into his chest.

DS: I'm not done with you. Not by a long shot. You're gonna get me what I want.

Emma swirls away in a cloud of magic.

Please. ...please.....make this happen! !!!! I know this kind of thing is petty. I know I should aim for more noble aspirations......but this would really REALLY put a spring in my step and a smile on my dial...

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While the Emma's Dark Revenge scenario against Rumple would be fun, it might ruin her image of not really caring about Hook if she showed anger about what had been done to him in the past. That's why I found the very similar binding so amusing. It was like subtle payback while still retaining her aura of detachment. At least, that's what it meant in my head. In reality, it may just be that they're lacking in imagination and can think of only one way to restrain someone. Still, there's an iron fence/gate kind of arrangement in the basement. Why would that be there if not for the chance to bind Rumple up to a fence?

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jaytee1812 - Hook was working with Cora as a means to an end: getting his revenge on Rumple. He wasn't invested in Cora's success. No one here denies that Hook was a villain. Neal was still a douche.

 

ETA: Shanna Marie - Would it blow her cover? She's the DO. Ripping out hearts and crushing them is, at least in Rumple's case, what DOs do. Not like it was ever a possibility anyway (sadly) b/c they're too busy distancing Rumple from what he did as DO. Will they try so hard with Emma, tho', once she's back to normal? Prob'ly not. Crazy fckin' show.

Edited by Dianthus
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