S02.E03: Rise Of The Villains: The Last Laugh

[driedfruit]

So Theo and Tabitha aren't blood related right? I mean he looks middle eastern, she's african-american, maybe step siblings only... then she says Theo is good in bed, have they slept together or just a joke?

 

I figured they had the same dad and different moms, maybe ten years apart. Either way, a weird joke to make. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Gotham Smells Magic In The Air
An evil plot comes to fruition, which is bad news for someone. Isn't that always the way?

[blackwing]

I'm confused, at the end, when all those people were laughing like the Joker, is there some kind of mental waves sent over the TV that made them behave that way?  People don't just watch something on TV and all of a sudden act crazy like that.

 

I wonder if Jerome is really dead.  They could throw him in some acid and it would revive him or something.

 

So Theo and Tabitha aren't blood related right? I mean he looks middle eastern, she's african-american, maybe step siblings only... then she says Theo is good in bed, have they slept together or just a joke?

I guess because I know it's James Frain, but he doesn't look Middle Eastern at all to me.  He looks like an Englishman to me.  And his sister looks Hispanic to me.  I figured they were adoptive siblings.

[Amerilla]

I couldn't catch what Jerome says after Theo stabs him - did any of you get the jist?

Loved seeing Bruce and Selina together again. They're still in the cute-teen phase.

[tomatoflyer]

I will really miss Monaghan on this show - he was able to bring an energy that was desperately missing from season 1, particularly the latter part of the season. I'm afraid Gotham will fall back into being tedious, where it doesn't feel like there are any stakes at all. I hope the writers have a solid plan basically, to make this show fun and interesting, like it's been lately. I like Gotham most when it doesn't even try to stick to canon, but is bold and makes its own path.

[blackwing]

I couldn't catch what Jerome says after Theo stabs him - did any of you get the jist?

Loved seeing Bruce and Selina together again. They're still in the cute-teen phase.

It was something like "this wasn't part of the script". Theo replies with something like "this way I get to be the hero". Edited October 7, 2015 by blackwing

[thuganomics85]

Ah, so taking things at face value, it looks like Jerome won't become The Joker, but will inspire the future Joker.  Unless his death scene really was one of the most elaborate fake-outs ever.  I guess it's possible: all the stuff with him being a magician and all the illusions, could have been foreshadowing him pulling a trick on everyone.  Still, I guess what maters is that this was all a set-up by Theo to make himself look like a "hero", and acquire more power.  Classic Theo!

 

I'm not sure what is the craziest thing about Barbara in this episode: that she really thinks Jim will go back to her in a year or so, or being in a relationship with both Theo and Tabitha.  Of all the people to get into a love triangle with, those two would be the last ones I want to do that with.  Either way, you're probably going to get hurt.  Although, I'd strangely say it would be best for her to get on Tabitha's bad side, because she'd probably just simply kill you.  Theo though, would, well, "destroy" you, if the relationship ends badly.

 

Does Alfred clearly crushing on Leslie mean we're actually going to get a love triangle with those two and Jim?  Or was it just used for humor, so Alfred could get all annoyed when he finds out the truth?  I hope it's the latter, because that is not a love triangle I want to see.

 

Good to see Selina again.  Oswald too.  His scene at the end with Bullock was great.  We haven't gotten much of either Oswald or Bullock yet, so I hope they are getting ready to change that soon.  Robin Lord Taylor and Donal Logue are two of my favorite things about this show.

 

Of course, it takes Essen having to get killed to finally put her in the spotlight.  I swear, she was mention more in this episode compared to her entire run in season one.

 

Speaking of deaths, it was fun while it lasted, Mark Margolis!

[Snookums]

I wish they would give Selina something to do though.

 

 

And fire her hairdresser. Whoever put her in that curly fauxhawk updo was not her friend.

 

Well, hell, there goes Joker. I regret he and Penguin didn't have a faceoff since those two actors would generate enough lightning to bring Frankenstein's monster to life if they had a scene together. You can see why they hate each other in later years: too many cooks spoil the crazy cake! Totally different goals.

 

Loved having Harvey back but man needs a haircut. When he was going home to get some sleep his hair looked like a clown wig. Is he growing it for another role or something?

 

Lee trying to say but not actually saying "Um, I have a boyfriend" was hilarious! And good on Alfred for just flat out saying you rock my world, wanna have dinner? That's how you set an example for Master Bruce, Alfie. Well that and taking down machine gun wielding thugs like it ain't no thang. You could see it cost Lee a pang to turn down that dinner, and not just because it was at a fancy restaurant.

 

Jim still has no home. When Lee called him from the benefit I was waiting for him to say hang on, honey, I just gotta strap on eight more guns!

 

Barbara is back to NO PANTS with a vengeance. She was terrific in her crazy sidekick mode--loved after Lee kneed her and she poutily straightened both her headpiece and her boobs. Yep, she's got her priorities in order.

[DeepRunner]

Just watched it online. From the top:

 

* Adios, Jerome. You woulda made a great Joker. Like most everyone else, I took it hook, line, and sinker. Good feint on the part of the producers and writers.

 

* Barbara is a twisted one who is headed for a showdown. Question is, will it be Jim, Lee, Theo, or Tabitha?

 

* Alfred and Lee...that was just weird, and for a guy who seems a bit smarter, Mr. Pennyworth wasn't picking-up on the reluctance clues

 

* Harvey, telling Penguin he owes him for Fish Mooney...nice

 

* Bruce and Selina...the awwwwwwwwwwwww factor

 

* Galavan is just a creeper

 

All in all, a pretty good episode.

[Amerilla]

Thanks blackwing

 

 

 

Alfred and Lee...that was just weird, and for a guy who seems a bit smarter, Mr. Pennyworth wasn't picking-up on the reluctance clues

 

I thought it was fun because it shows that Alfred's duality. This is a guy who started out as a street-tough, became a military star, and ended up as a servant. So he's got this tremendous self-confidence mixed with a sense of his place in the social order of things, and that's both his power and his weakness. It made sense to me that he'd have the confidence to throw himself at Lee, but not have the instincts that she was sending him I'm-not-on-the-market signals. And moments later be kicking the shit out of bad guys.

 

Plus, that and Bruce's scenes with Selina were the only break from the freight-train pace of the rest of the episode, and I appreciated it for that alone.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Amerilla

[marcee]

I couldn't catch what Jerome says after Theo stabs him - did any of you get the jist?

It was something like "this wasn't part of the script". Theo replies with something like "this way I get to be the hero".

Actually it was more like "But you said I was gonna be a..." - and we were to assume the last word was supposed to be "star". I watched with closed captioning and it was more along those lines.

Edited October 7, 2015 by marcee

[RCharter]

So much for the Noker. Nothing against the character, but I feel that we don't need a Joker or proto-Joker at this juncture.

 

Damn, Barbara is insane. And I'm liking it. Or maybe I got a thing about girl fun, and Montoya's been wished into the cornfield with Allen. And is Theo's master plan too obvious, or does it seem like that because we're in on his secret?

 

I see a lot of "personal time" in the cave for Alfred. Poor bastard . . . he seemed smitten by Leslie. And I wasn't sure he swung that way. Live and learn.

 

Is this a Twilight Zone reference?  If so, well done!

 

WWWWHHHHYYYYY???????? Why did Jerome have to die? He was so good!!! Cameron was soo good!!!!

Ugh. It'll be hard to top that.

So siblings are going to be enemies pretty soon, I take it? And that Theo scene was the fakest, cringiest scene ever. I can't tell if it was the actor's fault or if he played it intentionally like that. Who would believe that?

That harvey/jim brotp! Glad that Harvey brought up Fish. I was worried that was going to be an unfinished story line line from season 1.

Babs seemed kind of Harley-esque this episode.

Uuuuggggghhhhh. i miss Jerome already. ;_;

 

It had to have been intentional overacting.  James Frain is an amazing actor (he was awesome in the Tudors)

 

But here is my question about the entire Joker thing.  At the end random people were laughing maniacally.  Is this some sort of black magic Jerome unleashed?  Some sort of chemical agent?  Or did he just trigger all the crazies in Gotham that have always been there waiting to laugh manically at something?

 

 

 

Perhaps I expect too much. Perhaps there's an alternate world where this could make sense. Or perhaps I've come to the realization that this show just may not be for me anymore. I just know that, for me, the general "feel" of this show has gone past the "point of no return" to a place where it's just frankly too ridiculous.

 

A pity, because Gotham had so much promise.

If a show becomes so ridiculous for you that it becomes a chore its probably best to just let it go.  I'm sure Gotham can stand to lose a few viewers without too much pain.

 

 

True, but that's pretty suspect.  Gotham's in the middle of a high profile criminal attack and the mayor goes off on an unplanned vacation?  Even Mayor Quimby would make some effort to spout some platitudes and appear moderately engaged.

Not only is the mayor still gone, but who in the world was in that trunk?  Was it the real magician?

[Chicago Redshirt]

Actually it was more like "But you said I was gonna be a..." - and we were to assume the last word was supposed to be "star". I watched with closed captioning and it was more along those lines.

 

Yeah, Theo told Jerome something to the effect of "I know, this wasn't in the script. This way I get to be the hero."

 

Not only is the mayor still gone, but who in the world was in that trunk?  Was it the real magician?

 

My assumption is, yes, it was the real magician.

[Biggie B]

Having not seen the Batman movies nor read the comics, is Theo Galavan (or whatever his last name is) part of the original canon, or is he just made up for this show?

[paigow]

Poor Alfred. I don't blame him for flirting with Lee.

Always wondered why Stately Wayne Manor has a butler and no maids....Now I know... Alfred kept landing the Waynes in court for sexual harassment complaints.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Having not seen the Batman movies nor read the comics, is Theo Galavan (or whatever his last name is) part of the original canon, or is he just made up for this show?

As far as I know and with the help of el Google, it seems there is no "Theo Galavan" as part of Bat-canon prior to this.

 

Meanwhile, there is some speculation that he could be a few people from Bat-canon. Here are a few speculative links:

http://moviepilot.com/posts/2015/10/06/gotham-who-is-theo-galavan-3571366?lt_source=external,manual

 

http://www.cinemablend.com/television/Gotham-Which-Famous-DC-Villain-James-Frain-Character-Turning-80147.html

 

http://www.bustle.com/articles/113525-is-theo-galavan-from-dc-comics-james-frains-gotham-character-has-mysterious-origins 

 

From how he described himself (as a member of a family that helped build Gotham but was somehow betrayed by Gotham), it sounds to me like he might be

a member of the Court of Owls, or an ousted member. In the latest incarnation of the Bat-mythos, there was a bunch of families who ruled Gotham in secret. They employed darn-near-unkillable assassins called Talons.

 

Edited October 7, 2015 by Chicago Redshirt

[apgold]

Seeing Lee and Jim make out knowing they are a real life couple having a baby kind of squicks me out.

 

Where did Selina get her fancy dress and updo from?  Aww, Bruce misses her.  Seeing clueless Alfred try to hit on Lee was funny.  She should've just come right out and told him she was seeing someone.

 

Nice to see Norm Lewis as the deputy mayor, is the Mayor still walking around with a box on his head? I knew he wouldn't last long - perhaps he's in between B'way gigs?

 

Jerome's dying face looks just like the Joker's mask, so I wonder when we will see the "real" joker instead of those wannabees at the end.

 

Great use of Capitale in this episode (the venue where the fundraiser was held). I've been there in person a few times and the place looks even better on TV. It's an old Bowery bank now converted into an event space.

 

Looking forward to Chiklis as Jim's new boss.

[driedfruit]

Isn't his sister supposed to be Tigress? Now with the incest angle I wondered if Theo could be Sportsmaster.

 

From how he described himself (as a member of a family that helped build Gotham but was somehow betrayed by Gotham), it sounds to me like he might be

a member of the Court of Owls, or an ousted member. In the latest incarnation of the Bat-mythos, there was a bunch of families who ruled Gotham in secret. They employed darn-near-unkillable assassins called Talons.

 

 

Weren't the Talons resurrected dead? I wondered if that's what's going to happen to the dead Maniax. Could explain Joker's lacking memory and white skin.

 

[Milz]

Is "Galavan" a word scramble (ex. "Luthor" and "Thorul")?  If he is from a founding family of Gotham, wouldn't someone have recognized the family name (assuming that he goes by the founding family's surname)?

Edited October 8, 2015 by Milz

[tomatoflyer]

Seeing Lee and Jim make out knowing they are a real life couple having a baby kind of squicks me out.

 

t

I thought I was the only one. Really took me out of the moment.

[Miss Dee]

I know why Selina was dressed that way...and so will most everyone else when they remember Michelle Pfeiffer coming down the stairs at that fancy dress party in Batman Returns. I don't know how to embed pictures, but if you care to check out the links....

http://www.google.ca/search?q=michelle+pfeiffer+batman+returns&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMI-8DI35ezyAIVSG0-Ch3r6AMu#imgrc=xH7RQQfCgKuTVM%3A

http://www.google.ca/search?q=selina+kyle+gotham+season+2&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMI3tL-7JezyAIVCxY-Ch0bnQJR#tbm=isch&q=selina+kyle+gotham+season+2+episode+3&imgrc=kVtSDqkxjRrmfM%3A

As for the death of Jerome, it made me think of this:

The Second Coming

BY WILLIAM BUTLER YEATS

Turning and turning in the widening gyre

The falcon cannot hear the falconer;

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;

Surely the Second Coming is at hand.

The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out

When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi

Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert

A shape with lion body and the head of a man,

A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,

Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it

Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.

The darkness drops again; but now I know

That twenty centuries of stony sleep

Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,

Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

Edited October 8, 2015 by Miss Dee

[The Kings Foot]

Is "Galavan" a word scramble (ex. "Luthor" and "Thorul")?  If he is from a founding family of Gotham, wouldn't someone have recognized the family name (assuming that he goes by the founding family's surname)?

 

Did he say he was from a founding family?  I thought he said his family  built Gotham.  

 

Which I took to be  literal. I believe his family was some sort of poor immigrants who literally built Gotham ie took part in its construction. They probably lost a bunch of family members to poor  safety and after Gotham was built were shunted off to whatever serves as Gotham's "ghetto".

 

Now he's here to wage war on the city he believes used his family.

[Danielg342]

They probably lost a bunch of family members to poor safety and after Gotham was built were shunted off to whatever serves as Gotham's "ghetto".

Now he's here to wage war on the city he believes used his family.

Considering what Gotham looks like right now, I'd hate to see what its ghetto looks like.

[Agent Dark]

Barbara whacked Theo over the head with a mallet... Harley Quinn's weapon of choice is a (hugely oversized) mallet.  I thought that was an interesting little easter egg.

[Milz]

Did he say he was from a founding family?  I thought he said his family  built Gotham.  

 

Which I took to be  literal. I believe his family was some sort of poor immigrants who literally built Gotham ie took part in its construction. They probably lost a bunch of family members to poor  safety and after Gotham was built were shunted off to whatever serves as Gotham's "ghetto".

 

Now he's here to wage war on the city he believes used his family.

 

I guess I didn't take literally to the point that Theo's family used hammers, saws, trowels and other building materials to build the city.  I took it more metaphorically.

[RCharter]

I guess I didn't take literally to the point that Theo's family used hammers, saws, trowels and other building materials to build the city.  I took it more metaphorically.

me too -- I'm thinking they were some sort of crime/mafia type family or maybe some political family that was corrupt and got run out of town.

[FortKnox]

I know that Alfred and Leslie had a thing in the comics but, it worked because they are the same age. But, Alfred hitting on Lee in Gotham is just wrong and sick. Dude she looks young enough to be your daughter. Also, don't want a love triangle. Or with Barbara in the mix wouldn't it be a love square?

When they said there would be magicians I was hoping for Giovanni "John" Zatara and his daughter, Zatanna. Hopefully Bruce will want to work with a magician and seek them out.

As far as Jerome not being Joker, I'm happy with that. In most versions, Joker was a nobody till Batman knocked him into a bunch of chemicals that made his skin white and his mind gone. In other words Batman created his greatest villian. Him doing all that stuff pre Batman just doesn't sit right. Also, Batman showing up is what caused the freaks to came or be created in Gotham and push out the mob/gangster types that had been ruling the city.

[Milz]

When they said there would be magicians I was hoping for Giovanni "John" Zatara and his daughter, Zatanna. Hopefully Bruce will want to work with a magician and seek them out.

 

 

i hoped for that too.  It would have been a good opportunity to introduce them.

[paigow]

I'm thinking they were some sort of crime/mafia type family or maybe some political family that was corrupt and got run out of town.

Who built more of Gotham than the Waynes? If the Galavans were old money elites, Alfred would recognize the name. If they were mobsters pushed out by Maroni / Falcone, Gordon would recognize the name and be more suspicious.

[orza]

If the decline of Theo's family occurred several generations ago it would explain their present-day obscurity  No one but local historians would remember the 19th century families that have all but died out.

[RCharter]

I know that Alfred and Leslie had a thing in the comics but, it worked because they are the same age. But, Alfred hitting on Lee in Gotham is just wrong and sick. Dude she looks young enough to be your daughter. Also, don't want a love triangle. Or with Barbara in the mix wouldn't it be a love square?

When they said there would be magicians I was hoping for Giovanni "John" Zatara and his daughter, Zatanna. Hopefully Bruce will want to work with a magician and seek them out.

As far as Jerome not being Joker, I'm happy with that. In most versions, Joker was a nobody till Batman knocked him into a bunch of chemicals that made his skin white and his mind gone. In other words Batman created his greatest villian. Him doing all that stuff pre Batman just doesn't sit right. Also, Batman showing up is what caused the freaks to came or be created in Gotham and push out the mob/gangster types that had been ruling the city.

Love Rhombus!

 

Who built more of Gotham than the Waynes? If the Galavans were old money elites, Alfred would recognize the name. If they were mobsters pushed out by Maroni / Falcone, Gordon would recognize the name and be more suspicious.

I don't  know when the Wayne's showed up to Gotham, but Gotham may have been there before the Waynes.  Theo's family may have left long before the Wayne's came to town.  I also don't know how long Gordon has been around, I vaguely remember his father doing something in Gotham...maybe.  But if Theo's family was there at the very beginning it may have been a long time before anyone in current day Gotham would know who they are.

[rubinia]

 

So Theo and Tabitha aren't blood related right? I mean he looks middle eastern, she's african-american, maybe step siblings only... then she says Theo is good in bed, have they slept together or just a joke?

I interpreted it as Tabitha trying to shock the reporter (?) into not probing any deeper into her and Theo being at the gala. Maybe it is a sort of foreshadowing, though.

[Actionmage]

I guess I didn't take literally to the point that Theo's family used hammers, saws, trowels and other building materials to build the city.  I took it more metaphorically.

 

My .02 on the line:  Theo and Tabitha may be using a cover name until The Glorious Reveal and that indeed, Theo and Tabitha's family were in construction and made their money from that. The family didn't have to be corrupt, but that Theo feels that strongly about his family's rightful place seems more of a displaced/forgotten rich kid trying to take back what he perceives as his rightful compensation. ( Yes, Theo is not physically a child, but his rant to Barbara seems, at this time, to be very petty. He's clearly got enough to financially back this grand scheme. He can afford the digs they are currently occupying, unless they are squatters. Scary, scary squatters.

 

So the "Galavan" family helped establish this city however long ago and Theo has decided that now is the time to claim it, whether or not there's anything to back that claim.

[jhlipton]

I know why Selina was dressed that way...and so will most everyone else when they remember Michelle Pfeiffer coming down the stairs at that fancy dress party in Batman Returns. I don't know how to embed pictures, but if you care to check out the links....

http://www.google.ca/search?q=michelle+pfeiffer+batman+returns&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMI-8DI35ezyAIVSG0-Ch3r6AMu#imgrc=xH7RQQfCgKuTVM%3A

http://www.google.ca/search?q=selina+kyle+gotham+season+2&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMI3tL-7JezyAIVCxY-Ch0bnQJR#tbm=isch&q=selina+kyle+gotham+season+2+episode+3&imgrc=kVtSDqkxjRrmfM%3A

 

Good catch!  Thanks!

[MisterGlass]

So will we eventually see Joker Mania vs. the Red Hood Infection?

 

Gotham Season 3: Clash of the Ideologies!!!!

 

 

They'll drift through the city until one day they collide in the same host, fusing.  He'll be driven mad and become obsessed with purple.

 

 

Of course, it takes Essen having to get killed to finally put her in the spotlight.  I swear, she was mention more in this episode compared to her entire run in season one.

 

^This.  It just felt so unnecessary.  If they wanted to bring in Michael Chiklis as Gordon's new boss there is no reason they couldn't with her as a living commissioner.

 

 

It made sense to me that he'd have the confidence to throw himself at Lee, but not have the instincts that she was sending him I'm-not-on-the-market signals.

 

I suppose Alfred has few opportunities for meeting people (friends or otherwise) so given an introduction he wasn't prepared to waste it.  I think he could see the hesitation, so he tried a few tactics, and the restaurant one just about worked.  Since she didn't say she was seeing someone, her hesitation could have been because she was preoccupied with hosting the ball, because she's not contemplating a new relationship, or because of the age difference (~15 years based on the actors).

 

Alfred was good at appealing to Fish for assistance last year.

[RCharter]

Alfred was good at appealing to Fish for assistance last year.

Now that would have been an interesting relationship

[Artsda]

That was a great episode!

[Kel Varnsen]

 Jim Gordon said that there were only nine cops killed last week...pretty sure there were more, and there had to have been more if those four shooters got out of there alive). 

I bought that. I read an article awhile ago about how the vast majority of people who are shot survive. Especially when they receive immediate medical attention. Add onto that the fact that in real life places like Baltimore (where there is a lot of gun violence) have awesome trauma centres and I can believe a bunch of the cops that were shot survived.

 

The GCPD may have been lazy, but there's no way they'd just let the murder of their brethren "pass". Everyone would be kicking asses and taking names like Gordon and Harvey Bullock were, not just the two detectives.

 

 

Wasn't it last season where a serial killer kept getting away because he threatened to kill the families of any cop who investigated him. And to my surprise that actually made Gotham cops back down. That being the case I can see a ton of cops, maybe not giving a pass but being freaked out by this kind of thing.

 

 

Where did Selina get her fancy dress and updo from?  Aww, Bruce misses her.  Seeing clueless Alfred try to hit on Lee was funny.  She should've just come right out and told him she was seeing someone.

Not sure about the hair, but a thief like her shouldn't have much trouble finding a fancy dress.

 

The Lee/Alfred thing was funny. I know Dr. Thompkins in the comics was much older and is someone who knows Bruce's secret, but were her and Alfred ever a couple?

[Camera One]

The actor who played Jerome was right on the nose with Joker, but I was sick and tired of it after three long episodes.  Thank god Jerome is gone, though I wouldn't be surprised if he popped back up somewhere down the line.

 

The rest of the episode was so-so.  Bruce chasing after Selena again, Jim getting nowhere and will need another visit with Penguin next week, Barbara acting cray cray... what else is new.  I couldn't care less about the big baddie this year, nor his sister.  Hopefully the siblings tear themselves into pieces so we would be done with them.  I'm tired of the weekly death and gore fest with no end in sight.

 

Alfred accusing Bruce of knowing about Jim and Lee was hilarious, though.  That's the type of thing that could make this show actually fun.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Camera One

[John Potts]

This really had the feel of the classic (60s) Batman show, what with an OTT villain monologuing long enough for our heroes to save the day, particularly with the "heroine tied to the board while the villain throws daggers" trope thrown in too. On that point though, I did wonder how they were going to prevent Morena Baccarin's dress from riding up when she was upside down and thought she might have been tied across the top of her thighs but the fact that she could knee Barbara in the groin ruled that out: I guess her dress was just sufficiently figure hugging. Slightly disappointed that Jerome died, though given the Joker's ability to return from "Nobody could survive that!" situations, I wouldn't rule out his return completely.

 

Chaos Theory  So.....Gotham needs a hero and so rich dude (whose name I really should remember) has manufactured some hellish monsters and become that hero.  Actually I've heard worse plans

 

 

I wonder if he's Gotham's Ra'z Al Ghul? Causing chaos in order to crackdown would be somewhat in character (and he is definitely a Chessmaster).

 

Danielg342 The GCPD may have been lazy, but there's no way they'd just let the murder of their brethren "pass". Everyone would be kicking asses and taking names like Gordon and Harvey Bullock were, not just the two detectives.

 

I concur - it's a definite tonal problem the series has. It can't decide if it wants to be a "realistic" tale of a city on the edge of self destruction (like the Nolan films) or a comic book tale where ludicrous villains comit OTT crimes (like the 60s series)

[Danielg342]

I bought that. I read an article awhile ago about how the vast majority of people who are shot survive. Especially when they receive immediate medical attention. Add onto that the fact that in real life places like Baltimore (where there is a lot of gun violence) have awesome trauma centres and I can believe a bunch of the cops that were shot survived.

 

Wasn't it last season where a serial killer kept getting away because he threatened to kill the families of any cop who investigated him. And to my surprise that actually made Gotham cops back down. That being the case I can see a ton of cops, maybe not giving a pass but being freaked out by this kind of thing.

 

If I recall the end of the massacre scene, everyone was lying on the ground, seemingly dead, except for Essen, the four shooters, Nygma and Kringle (the latter two escaping). So how that translates to just nine out of 50 potential casualties is beyond me. I also can't see Gotham having a great trauma centre- at least for cops- and I don't think any of them received prompt medical attention.

 

We probably should have had at least a dozen or so killed, and the next day (as this episode was set in) should have seen the GCPD run a skeleton crew- not a department teeming with officers.

 

I also don't think the serial killer thing is a good comparison. The serial killer targeted people the other officers were only tangentially connected to- the loved ones of the investigating officers- so, while cruel, it's understandable they wouldn't be too arsed to look into this guy. The massacre left actual officers- people the surviving officers talked to and actually connected with- so that should be enough to light a fire under at least some of those guys.

 

I would say in the real world, after the massacre the FBI would be down on Gotham in an instant locking the city down and enlisting thousands of agents to scour the city for the four shooters, but I'll give the show a pass on this one since I don't think the show has established that the FBI cares about this city.

 

I concur - it's a definite tonal problem the series has. It can't decide if it wants to be a "realistic" tale of a city on the edge of self destruction (like the Nolan films) or a comic book tale where ludicrous villains comit OTT crimes (like the 60s series)

 

I think the show works best when it's a realistic tale of comic book mayhem, when it deconstructs all the comic book tropes and highlights what would really happen. It did it so wonderfully in Season One, and it needs to get back to it in S2.

[Chas411]

I feel like they're trying to inflict some fun into Lee's personality but it's just falling flat. She's lovely but she's so boring and one note.

RIP Joker - I'd say he could be back... somehow... seasons from now.