Episode Discussion: TFGH

[Oracle42]

This reveal has had all the drama and suspense of a slowly deflating balloon.

Kind of like a bomb in a basement that barely chars the walls

[HeatLifer]

What does Robin have to do with Liz? What's happening to Robin has nothing to do with Liz.

Robin sacrificed her life and family to save Jason to bring him back to Sam and Danny and in the process was held captive for over a year, first by Victor and then by Helena and now by Jerry. She had to lie to her family that Jason was dead and everything was fine to keep them alive.

I mean, shouldn't Liz feel something about this? Weren't they supposedly friends?

Edited December 15, 2015 by HeatLifer

[Dandesun]

Carly has been known to use her kids for her own manipulations.

 

Carly used Michael to get Jason when he was still in utereo. Carly can have a thousand seats and shut the fuck up.

[LeftPhalange]

The thing I really hate the most about Elizabeth, besides the lying, is that she always uses her boys. I hate agreeing with Carly but I was so glad she called Liz out on breaking her own kids hearts. "Oh my kids are heartbroken" Shut up bitch, you did that yourself. As soon as a guy tries to leave her she throws out the "what about the boys". She did that to Lucky all the time.

 

Bitch just acts like Lucky doesn't even exist.

 

What does Robin have to do with Liz? What's happening to Robin has nothing to do with Liz.

 

Robin has been held in captivity for 87 years now because she wanted to save Jason so he could have a life with his wife and son. Liez knows that Robin "died" to save him, which resulted in her being held captive and then eventually fleeing to Paris because of the trauma she suffered. Liez keeping Jason away from his family goes against everything Robin wanted and is like a slap in the face, doubly so since Liez is supposedly Robin's friend. This has also fucked up Patrick's life, who's supposed to be her friend, and Emma's life. Robin should beat her ass for this.

Edited December 15, 2015 by LeftPhalange

[truthaboutluv]

Carly used Michael to get Jason when he was still in utereo. Carly can have a thousand seats and shut the fuck up.

 

To be fair though Carly never brought up Liz's children. She only called bullshit when Liz tried to throw some guilt trip about her boys being so hurt and traumatized and Carly rightly told her that's on her because she's the one that made the boys get attached to Jason knowing the lie she was keeping. And hell she even said she felt for the boys because they're innocent but Liz is full of shit with those excuses.

 

Just admit you wanted Jason, didn't give a fuck about anyone else and be done with it and hell she doesn't even have to apologize since she's not sorry. But enough with this crap about her boys or it somehow being Sam's fault or she did it for Sam and Patrick because they were so happy or Jason was always unfairly taken from her or whatever other bullshit she's come with.

[TeeVee329]

Robin's probably going to be confused re: Liz's love life when she gets back.  "Weren't you all jelly about Nikolas and Britt when last we had girl talk?"

Edited December 15, 2015 by TeeVee329

[dubbel zout]

I think Liz does feel bad about the lying, but I don't blame her for being defiant when someone like Carly goes after her. Also, it's been barely 24 hours since the truth came out. If she continues on this line a week from now, say, then it's gross. But right now? I cut Liz a bit of slack.

[katie9918]

Yeah, if Liz would just own the fact that she was thinking of nothing and no one but herself this entire time, I'd be more inclined to be sympathetic.

Instead, she's blaming everyone else for her own actions.

[MissE]

Robin sacrificed her life and family to save Jason to bring him back to Sam and Danny and in the process was held captive for over a year, first by Victor and then by Helena and now by Jerry. She had to lie to her family that Jason was dead and everything was fine to keep them alive.

I mean, shouldn't Liz feel something about this? Weren't they supposedly friends?

Robin made that choice on her own though. Liz didn't make her do it, and she has no idea that Robin did any of this. 

 

Not to mention, that Jason still doesn't remember Sam and Danny. Its not like Sam, Danny and Jason would be some big happy family if Liz had told the truth 7 months ago. Liz hasn't been keeping Jason from remembering.

[HeatLifer]

she did it for Sam and Patrick because they were so happy

This is why I dread any possible Liz/Robin scene. If Liz says that to her, lawd. My poor girl.

Robin made that choice on her own though. Liz didn't make her do it, and she has no idea that Robin did any of this.

Not to mention, that Jason still doesn't remember Sam and Danny. Its not like Sam, Danny and Jason would be some big happy family if Liz had told the truth 7 months ago. Liz hasn't been keeping Jason from remembering.

Liz does know all about Robin and the clinic and her leaving for Jason. Patrick told her.

We'll just agree to disagree on this!

[TeeVee329]

I do hope, when reunited this time, there are no hugs for Sonny from Robin.  "I'm not sure what's worse, Sonny.  You murdering AJ, or choosing to marry Carly again!"

[HeatLifer]

I do hope, when reunited this time, there are no hugs for Sonny from Robin. "I'm not sure what's worse, Sonny. You murdering AJ, or choosing to marry Carly again!"

Omg, I know. They probs won't mention AJ at all, though.

[MissE]

This is why I dread any possible Liz/Robin scene. If Liz says that to her, lawd. My poor girl.

Liz does know all about Robin and the clinic and her leaving for Jason. Patrick told her.

We'll just agree to disagree on this!

She's knows that she left for Jason, but she doesn't know she's been held hostage. 

 

Nothing Liz did effected the work Robin did to keep Jason alive, or effects Robin in any way. 

 

The car accident is what screwed up what Robin did.

[HeatLifer]

She's knows that she left for Jason, but she doesn't know she's been held hostage.

Nothing Liz did effected the work Robin did to keep Jason alive, or effects Robin in any way.

The car accident is what screwed up what Robin did.

Well, I think Liz's lie did effect a lot of lives, including Robin's, but that's just me. It's all good.

[MissE]

Well, I think Liz's lie did effect a lot of lives, including Robin's, but that's just me. It's all good.

How did she effect Robin's life?

[mybabyaidan]

 

I don't really think Sam has the proper equipment to do that. ;) Sorry, I had to. My mind is a very dirty place.

 

Wow, holy typo.  LOL.   I did mean to say "on" but now I wanna keep it, just because it's funnier.

[backhometome]

 

Instead, she's blaming everyone else for her own actions.

This is also my problem with her. Like today she was blaming Sam, again. Like its her fault Liz lied for 7 months and kept her sons father from him. Its always someone else fault.

[LeftPhalange]

How did she effect Robin's life?

 

Robin wanted Jason to have a life with Sam and Danny. That's why her life has been in shambles for the last three years. If Liez had told the truth Jason could have spent these last seven months getting to know his wife and son. Even if he completely ignored them, he would have still had the option to spend time with them if he felt so inclined. Liez took that opportunity away from him. Robin still probably would've been held captive but at least everything she went through wouldn't have been for nothing.

[TeeVee329]

Well, I think Liz's lie did effect a lot of lives, including Robin's, but that's just me. It's all good.

 

I think she'll feel bad after the fact, that the lie played a role in elongating Robin's captivity (I'm still not clear on how much of Robin's time at Crichton-Clark is public knowledge) and that she pushed Patrick at Sam, just like she felt bad that she encouraged Patrick and Sabrina's relationship.

 

But Nikolas should be held to a much higher degree of blame.  He knew much more about Crichton-Clark, about Helena being mixed in, etc.  If Nik's all, "I had NO idea!" about it...I wouldn't really buy it.

Edited December 15, 2015 by TeeVee329

[Dandesun]

To be fair though Carly never brought up Liz's children. She only called bullshit when Liz tried to throw some guilt trip about her boys being so hurt and traumatized and Carly rightly told her that's on her because she's the one that made the boys get attached to Jason knowing the lie she was keeping. And hell she even said she felt for the boys because they're innocent but Liz is full of shit with those excuses.

 

Just admit you wanted Jason, didn't give a fuck about anyone else and be done with it and hell she doesn't even have to apologize since she's not sorry. But enough with this crap about her boys or it somehow being Sam's fault or she did it for Sam and Patrick because they were so happy or Jason was always unfairly taken from her or whatever other bullshit she's come with.

 

That's very true. As others have mentioned, Liz defaults to using her boys as something along the lines of tiny human shields to deflect the scorn that others have for the things she does. I loved Lucky calling her out on that. And, yes, Carly did say that she felt bad for the boys because this wasn't their mess, it was Liz' and so whatever they're going through is on her.

 

And now I think I'm developing some kind of rash for agreeing with Carly about something.

 

All that being said, Carly used an innocent child that hadn't even been born yet to lash Jason to her side for, basically, his entire life and she certainly threw out the 'what about Michael? He counts on you so much' thing on numerous occasions whenever Jason actually reached critical mass with her shit. So, on that score, Carly really doesn't have much room to talk, either.

 

Add to that, Carly's smugness automatically sets me against her.

[MissE]

I think she'll feel bad after the fact, that the lie played a role in elongating Robin's captivity (I'm still not clear on how much of Robin's time at Crichton-Clark is public knowledge) and that she pushed Patrick at Sam, just like she felt bad that she encouraged Patrick and Sabrina's relationship.

 

But Nikolas should be held to a much higher degree of blame.  He knew much more about Crichton-Clark, about Helena being mixed in, etc.  If Nik's all, "I had NO idea!" about it...I wouldn't really buy it.

The lie didn't elongate Robin's captivity. Patrick and Anna being too stupid to realize that Robin would never just leave Emma is what elongated it. 

 

Even now, they know Jason is actually alive, and not once have Patrick and Anna though that maybe, Robin isn't staying away on her own. I don't know what Anna's doing, and Patrick was too concerned with keeping Sam in his life, to think about Robin, until Emma had a meltdown.

 

Robin wanted Jason to have a life with Sam and Danny. That's why her life has been in shambles for the last three years. If Liez had told the truth Jason could have spent these last seven months getting to know his wife and son. Even if he completely ignored them, he would have still had the option to spend time with them if he felt so inclined. Liez took that opportunity away from him. Robin still probably would've been held captive but at least everything she went through wouldn't have been for nothing.

 

Well considering Jason is still alive, and has gotten to know Sam and Danny, Liz lying didn't make Robin's work for nothing. Not to mention, that even after he found out he was Jason, its not like he's just spent a ton of time with Danny. Even now, that he knows the truth, he didn't rush to Danny and Sam.

[LeftPhalange]

How much is Nik supposed to know about Robin's captivity?

[Francie]

Robin has been held in captivity for 87 years now because she wanted to save Jason so he could have a life with his wife and son

 

Pshaw! You exaggerate.  Here's Robin now with the correct amount of time she's been held in captivity:

 

https://youtu.be/7tectqamOkc

[camussie]

I loathe Liz but she has no blame when it comes to Robin's captivity as the primary reason for her captivity is because Robin had no choice.  Victor made that quite clear from the very beginning.  Saving Jason (in order to test whatever she developed to save Helena) was a benefit for her but robin didn't voluntarily go into captivity to save Jason.  She was forced into captivity (the second time) because of Victor's whacked out plans for Helena.

[dubbel zout]

How much is Nik supposed to know about Robin's captivity?

 

Probably more than anyone in Port Charles.

[fishcakes]

Not to mention, that Jason still doesn't remember Sam and Danny. Its not like Sam, Danny and Jason would be some big happy family if Liz had told the truth 7 months ago. Liz hasn't been keeping Jason from remembering.

 

Liz has put more effort into keeping Jason from remembering than anyone. Even Nik was ready to just let the truth be known at a couple of points. Jason's had flashes where he's remembered being with Sam, and actually did remember who he was and told Elizabeth so before the surgery to remove his chip. He also had that dream of being Danny's dad, which Liz also knows about. Whenever he's talked to Liz about what little he did remember, she'd play it off as not meaning anything and then change the subject. She asked Patrick to keep Sam away from Jason, and after Jake came back from Cassidine Island, she was reticent about letting Danny spend time with him because it might mean that Jason would too, and she was afraid that the more time he spent with Sam and Danny, the more likely he would be to remember being Jason. She actively discouraged him from trying to find out who he was on more than one occasion.

 

But Nikolas should be held to a much higher degree of blame.  He knew much more about Crichton-Clark, about Helena being mixed in, etc.  If Nik's all, "I had NO idea!" about it...I wouldn't really buy it.

 

Yeah, I assume Nik knows that Robin is being held captive and that he's full-on evil Cassidine now. Why, though, is a mystery. The thing is, good Nik was so boring that I've always hoped he would turn dark, but the way they've done it makes no sense. Even evil Nik wouldn't turn on Emily's family or on his own cousin. He'd probably do some heinous shit to Jax or Carly or even Luke, but I don't see him becoming completely disloyal and cruel to everyone he's ever cared about. Also, what's with that superior little laugh whenever he gets called out for something? Be more of a supercilous fop, why don't you. At least his hair is semi-okay, unlike most of the rest of the men. Patrick, obvs. And Johnny's hair was looking fairly Johnny Bravo today. And then, of course,

 

 

Chachi, Chachi, Chachi.

 

Maybe it's just because I can't stand Alexis and Julian, but I adore how intrusive Olivia is with them. She's like, "oh, you want to be part of Leo's life? Well, I'm part of the package. Now put on this hideous sweater and eat this cannoli, mofos." Seriously, anything that keeps me from having to FF through one of their grunting sex scenes is something I can support.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Nik and Robin have been friends for much longer than he and Liz.  There was the time when Nik couldn't talk and Robin was helping him, and he didn't want to see or talk to Sarah--Liz went up to Robin at Kelly's and told her to stay away from her sister's boyfriend.

 

That said, this is why I have a HUGE issue if Nik does indeed know about Robin's captivity this time around. It's just so wrong on so many levels, I can't even begin to list them.

 

But why should I be surprised that this is the route the last and current regime is running with?

[One Tough Cookie]

So Liz can trash a room {even if it is Franco's "Art Therapy Room" and then just dismissively "call a janitor" to clean up her mess.  Just another thing that wasn't her fault, right?  Gah, I'm enjoying her misery.

[peachmangosteen]

Anyway, I've always said, Jane's best pairing in years was with Richard Steinmetz. If they can find a reason to keep Maura West, they can bring RS back and give Tracy a real chance at romance. Not as Joe Jr, we've got enough back from the deads. But as a corporate raider brought on by Nikolas to help keep ELQ.

 

+1. Man, JE and RS had amazing chem.

 

Just admit you wanted Jason, didn't give a fuck about anyone else and be done with it and hell she doesn't even have to apologize since she's not sorry. But enough with this crap about her boys or it somehow being Sam's fault or she did it for Sam and Patrick because they were so happy or Jason was always unfairly taken from her or whatever other bullshit she's come with.

 

This. If Liz would just own her shit and stop trying to play the victim every time she gets called out for it she would be a lot easier to like.

 

OK, I am half afraid to say this, and I seek help for it, but I actually kinda enjoyed the Liz/Franco scenes. I'm so ashamed!

Edited December 16, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Tiger]

She's knows that she left for Jason, but she doesn't know she's been held hostage. 

 

Nothing Liz did effected the work Robin did to keep Jason alive, or effects Robin in any way. 

 

The car accident is what screwed up what Robin did.

 

Did Ava and Jordan know that the former hit Jasus, or did the collison so mangle his face that they have no idea who Ava hit?

[Ambrosefolly]

I despise Sonny & Carly with white hot passion, BUT the way I see it, if hypocrites weren't allowed to blast others for wrongdoing, there would be white noise or a test pattern on screen instead of GH. Soaps survive by that very hypocrisy.

 

Just how I personally see it.

What I hate is that Carly and Sonny are given over focus compared to everyone else's reaction. I guess we should be grateful that Sam got the shot in for Liz vs ___ part III. Carly gets to confront Liz at her place of employment, yet we never got to see Monica slap the taste out of Sonny's or Carly's mouths for covering up AJ's murder, it was all about Stupid Little Shit and his pain. And if you want to talk blaming other people, I as recently as a few years ago she is still placing the lion's share of the blame ruining AJ's life on Robin, not herself and told Monica she didn't regret a thing she did to AJ  as recent as 2012. Sonny has been a little more reasonable, but that might be FV's Bitches Be Crazy philosophy that he amped up since taking over for JFP. 

 

And who is it for? Jason, Fucking Jason. An unemployed hitman is somehow rendered to sacred and special the Cassadines sought to bring him back from the dead. 

Edited December 16, 2015 by Ambrosefolly

[fishcakes]

OK, I am half afraid to say this, and I seek help for it, but I actually kinda enjoyed the Liz/Franco scenes. I'm so ashamed!

 

I enjoyed how horrified Liz was. "Stop being on my side! It's making my side look bad!"

[Lillybee]

Didn't NuJason recognize Robin when he saw her picture somewhere? I don't remember who talked him down that time? If it was Liez, she deserves being reamed out by a lot of people.

[peachmangosteen]

I enjoyed how horrified Liz was. "Stop being on my side! It's making my side look bad!"

 

Yep, that's what I liked, too.

[HeatLifer]

Didn't NuJason recognize Robin when he saw her picture somewhere? I don't remember who talked him down that time? If it was Liez, she deserves being reamed out by a lot of people.

No, that was Patrick and Sam. "YOU DIDNT KNOW HER OK CUZ SHE NEVER VISITS!!" -Patrick

[Tiger]

I remain staunchly against Liz losing her kids or anything else over this Jason thing, but if she starts cavorting with RAPIST SERIEL KILLER, I hope Laura steps in and gets full custody of all three boiz.  

[MissE]

Liz has put more effort into keeping Jason from remembering than anyone. Even Nik was ready to just let the truth be known at a couple of points. Jason's had flashes where he's remembered being with Sam, and actually did remember who he was and told Elizabeth so before the surgery to remove his chip. He also had that dream of being Danny's dad, which Liz also knows about. Whenever he's talked to Liz about what little he did remember, she'd play it off as not meaning anything and then change the subject. She asked Patrick to keep Sam away from Jason, and after Jake came back from Cassidine Island, she was reticent about letting Danny spend time with him because it might mean that Jason would too, and she was afraid that the more time he spent with Sam and Danny, the more likely he would be to remember being Jason. She actively discouraged him from trying to find out who he was on more than one occasion.

 

 

 

Liz trying to get him to stop looking into who he was, didn't keep him from actually getting his memories back. He knows who he is now, and he still has no memories. 

 

As for the room she "trashed" today, I'm pretty sure she just refused to clean it up because it was Franco. Her disgust with him today was hilarious.

[LeftPhalange]

As for the room she "trashed" today, I'm pretty sure she just refused to clean it up because it was Franco. 

 

So? Why should a janitor have to clean up a mess because some grown ass woman decided to throw a temper tantrum. Liez can't do anything for herself and nothing is ever her fault. 

[MissE]

So? Why should a janitor have to clean up a mess because some grown ass woman decided to throw a temper tantrum. Liez can't do anything for herself and nothing is ever her fault. 

Who said nothing is ever her fault? I guess I just don't see the big deal in her not cleaning up that room. I'm assuming Sonny doesn't clean up the bar ware himself when he throws his tantrums. Who cares? lol

Edited December 16, 2015 by MissE

[TeeVee329]

The lie didn't elongate Robin's captivity. Patrick and Anna being too stupid to realize that Robin would never just leave Emma is what elongated it. 

 

I'm saying that, when Robin returns to town and the full truth is out, I could see Liz feeling some guilt, all, "Maybe if I said something in the beginning, we would have realized something was going on sooner.  And I feel bad that I, as your alleged close friend, didn't question your behavior either because I was hopped up on mob peen."  It's not rational, but it's human.

 

And it'd be a good idea for Liz to show some regard for others because, like others have said, Liz has shown a shocking lack of remorse.  She doesn't feel bad about what she did, she feels bad that she got caught and now people are "ganging up on her."

Edited December 16, 2015 by TeeVee329

[Asp Burger]

 

All that being said, Carly used an innocent child that hadn't even been born yet to lash Jason to her side for, basically, his entire life and she certainly threw out the 'what about Michael? He counts on you so much' thing on numerous occasions whenever Jason actually reached critical mass with her shit. So, on that score, Carly really doesn't have much room to talk, either.

 

She also used the shit out of Michael in the McTavish/Braun years (they seemed like more years than they were), when Jason was not even on the canvas. Sonny wanted zilch to do with her after she betraaaaayed him with the harebrained witness-protection/Roy DiLucca scheme, and he was icing her out pretty thoroughly, and she treated Michael like her one hole card. She would engineer these sappy little scenes involving the three of them, knowing of Sonny's weakness for Opie. No one ever talks about that period of the show, and I totally get why -- we all want to blank out the Face of Deception wars, RKK as Stavros, Angel Boris, "MelRoy's Place" (board term for the staggering amount of screen time given to the coupling of Melissa and Roy, because they were played by JFP pets). But it is still canon. Carly wrote the book on the child-as-pawn shit (not even getting into the sickness of how Michael became "Sonny's son" -- the meathook was in that era too). Doesn't mean Liz is right for doing it too, but Carly has no moral authority on the topic. 

Edited December 16, 2015 by Asp Burger

[tvgoddess]

That's a real tweet?! I'm scared now.

 

Yes, that was a real tweet. Richard from SID retweeted it.

[HeatLifer]

Me when Patrick realizes he's a complete douche tomorrow:

http://www.giphy.com/gifs/popcorn-justin-bieber-jimmy-fallon-Htrxz6kRzRlQI

[ciarra]

Franco/Liz = Fiz?

[Kitty Redstone]

Too bad Liz didn't go full-on psycho and stab Carly right in the throat.  That heinous she-cretin shouldn't get to sit in judgement of anyone, for any reason, ever.

 

Why not have Monica be the one to tear into Liz for being a horrible, manipulative, crazy person?  I guess for the same reason Monica didn't get to eviscerate Sonny for murdering AJ and Carly for covering it up/getting off on it.  It'd make too much sense.

 

Valerie and Dante are horrible.  I don't care what Johnny does to her and wish he'd dole out the same to Dante.

[Bringonthedrama]

The thing I really hate the most about Elizabeth, besides the lying, is that she always uses her boys. I hate agreeing with Carly but I was so glad she called Liz out on breaking her own kids hearts. "Oh my kids are heartbroken" Shut up bitch, you did that yourself. As soon as a guy tries to leave her she throws out the "what about the boys". She did that to Lucky all the time.

What she said was correct, but to me it rings hollow because Carly has used Michael numerous times as a weapon and trump card to get what she wanted, or to prevent what she didn't want,  from Jason, Sonny and AJ for about 19 years now. Michael has definitely suffered because he's her son. 

[Bringonthedrama]

 

Robin has been held in captivity for 87 years now because she wanted to save Jason so he could have a life with his wife and son. Liez knows that Robin "died" to save him, which resulted in her being held captive and then eventually fleeing to Paris because of the trauma she suffered. Liez keeping Jason away from his family goes against everything Robin wanted and is like a slap in the face, doubly so since Liez is supposedly Robin's friend. 

Liz doesn't know what Robin wanted, other than Jason alive (because he was her friend and she "died" to save him). They didn't have a talk before she left about her motivations for complying with Victor. The only person aware of what Robin was thinking and feeling at that time is/was Patrick.  So her sources of information re: Robin reviving Jason, the clinic explosion, and Robin living in Paris are Patrick, Nikolas and (recently) Helena.  If anything, I think Robin should be angry at Liz because her lies contributed to Patrick creating the situation that resulted in Emma calling Robin, sobbing and heartbroken.

[Lillybee]

I wish Helena had cursed Liez instead of Sam.

[Bringonthedrama]

So Liz can trash a room {even if it is Franco's "Art Therapy Room" and then just dismissively "call a janitor" to clean up her mess.  Just another thing that wasn't her fault, right?  

He hired someone to kidnap her newborn son from that same hospital, killed that person, and then took the baby to his mother to raise as her own child. Trashing a room where that psycho works when he has no business ever working there is less than the least of what he deserves.

[TwistedandBored]

I find it super lame the person Lulu wants to hurt the most in this reveal is Valerie. Seriously!?! How progressive of the writers. 

 

Also, Liz blaming others for mistakes and using her children as shield from the consequences would never not be pathetic.