Episode Discussion: TFGH

[General Days]

Is it an acronym, or -- how does "tocks" relate/translate? Term Of Conception Killed Soon?

[dubbel zout]

LOL that Alexis and Julian show up after the ball is over.

 

Julian always asks after the baby. Olivia suddenly thinks the secret is out? This story is so deeply stupid. I did like that Sam emphasized she heard Olivia and Ned "loud and clear." 

 

Nik is scum. He's "not in the mood" until Hayden stands naked in front of him. UGH. He's the worst.

 

Maxie and Spinelli are pathetic. If I were Nathan and Ellie, I'd totally wash my hands of those nitwits. 

 

My issue with Jake is that the idiot has been having very revealing flashes of memory of Sam, and he has done NOTHING to investigate why he is having them.  So how can I feel sorry for him that he doesn't have his life back when he doesn't even follow up on the clues he IS getting?

 

Carly will figure it all out for him, so why does Jake need to do anything? Gah. I don't get why he has no curiosity. He's not really trying to build a new life, either. He just allows himself to be moved around.

[Tiger]

Fin, Ian, Becky, Kelly, and Lisa were really good today.

Poor Ellie . . . I wish Spin would drink some insecticide and die; Shawn too.

Where are Mac & Flea?!?

ETA: if RB is going to stick around can Hayden at least turn out to be a brainwashed Emily with a new face courtesy of Helena? For reasons/because of course . . .

Edited May 6, 2015 by Tiger

[LeftPhalange]

Did you all notice, today, during Jake and Liz's second sandwich date, he was saying that it was even better than their first sandwich date. "Maybe it's the fact that the odds are against anybody ringing your doorbell and coming in and claiming that their my wife, or your dead husband, or I don't know…"

For a second, I was like, "Son of a bitch, they retcon-killed Lucky." Then I realized it was just piss-poor dialogue.

 

Maybe Liez has convinced Jakeson that Jason was her husband.

[CPP83]

It's not really that simple. I know a lot of people have been saying that, but it's not so cut and dry. Was Olivia an idiot for sleeping with a known mobster? Hell, yeah. But should she just throw up her hands and go, "well, I made my mistake, guess my baby should suffer for it?"        

 

 

 

 

The reason I used the word "simple" before is because, imho, it was as simple as Olivia not sleeping with Julian to have avoided even worrying about the baby's safety in the first place.         

 

There would be no baby, at least no baby with a mobster for a Daddy that might then cause said child to be in danger.       

  

She'd have no reason at all to be going through any of this, or putting anyone else through it, or begging people to lie for her, if she hadn't been with Julian.

 

If you don't sleep with those who are openly mob affiliated then you cannot have their children and therefore then fret and lose your shit over the idea of them being in danger.       

        

To me that is as cut and dry as a piece of turkey at Thanksgiving.  

 

Not to mention that the kid isn't just her baby though, it is Julian's as well, as Sam rightfully kept pointing out.     

      

Olivia didn't make that baby by herself and unfortunately you don't get do-overs or substitutions for those that end up fathering your children just because you decide after the fact they really aren't the best fatherly material in the world.        

 

I get the whole Olivia is "worried" about the baby being known as Julian's child and getting sucked into the mob crossfire and that is a very legitimate concern, and I am not saying she has a "simple" task of trying t handle things in that regard.  

 

However, my issue is that she has now convinced herself, and dum dum Ned with his blasted saviour complex, that her best course of action is to hide the true paternity, lie to the child and allow them to believe they are related to people they aren't, that the man they would call "Daddy" really isn't and is in on the lie, that their own biological sister went along with it, and that the rest of their biological family has been totally kept in the dark.

        

Do I believe that sort of end justifies Olivia's means? No, I don't. I don't give her a pass for trying to, rather badly, fix what is already broken and nothing can truly be done about it really.    

 

Whatever she does, however many lies she tells, or people she gets to cover for her, Olivia cannot ever change the fact that Julian is the rightful father and the way she is handling this mess, imho, is just not right, especially since it involves so many lies and so much deceit which rarely, if ever, ends well. 

 

Not to mention through all of this Olivia continues to be just fine and dandy with the rest of her family staying chummy with Sonny and all his mob ties.      

 

Sonny's family/friends has faced far more danger and risk than Julian's at this point and yet Olivia not so long ago was not only wanting, willing and desperate to be Sonny's #1 mob molly when they were busy shacking up, she even took it upon herself to whine to Sonny once that she didn't think he was paying Dante "enough" attention. The supposed mobster father she had to do all she could to keep him away from for 25 odd years.  

 

If she wasn't being a hypocrite who apparently can decide which side of the mob is worse than another at any given second and which mob father deserves a right to be around  his children, or even know that they exist, I might feel she has more of a right to do what she's doing.

 

Personally I find everything to do with this plot line a total sham and stupid as can be.

 

The fact that there is even a baby to fight over just...Ron and his damn plot pushing pregnancies continue to drive me bonkers.

Edited May 7, 2015 by CPP83

[kellog010]

I couldn't help but feel that Sam's lines about telling Julian the truth about Olivia's baby were more about putting additional tire marks on Liz's back than about Sam not perpetuating a lie.Plenty of people lie on this show, heck Sonny committed cold blood murder and the people who are bad are the real heroes in this town. So of course since Liz is keeping the truth about St. Jaysus she will be vilified though more heinous crimes have been committed with no consequence. It's not that what Liz is doing isn't reprehensible, because it is. I just get frustrated how some characters are not allowed to grow or give real motivations for their actions just fit a plot point. I really wish the story would have been that Jason remembered on his own and decided to keep the truth hidden.

[OnceSane]

I have but two wishes for this show:

All babies for the next few years are tocks (besides Micheal and Sabrina because that's going to be a cute baby.) And no more rape stories.

That's not too much to ask, is it?

Yes.

~Ron

[OnceSane]

I couldn't help but feel that Sam's lines about telling Julian the truth about Olivia's baby were more about putting additional tire marks on Liz's back than about Sam not perpetuating a lie.Plenty of people lie on this show, heck Sonny committed cold blood murder and the people who are bad are the real heroes in this town. So of course since Liz is keeping the truth about St. Jaysus she will be vilified though more heinous crimes have been committed with no consequence. It's not that what Liz is doing isn't reprehensible, because it is. I just get frustrated how some characters are not allowed to grow or give real motivations for their actions just fit a plot point. I really wish the story would have been that Jason remembered on his own and decided to keep the truth hidden.

I think Sam not wanting to lie about her future brother/sister is in character for her, if these hacks actually cared about people acting "in character" rather than the next plot point. Sam was fine with raising three children with Jason despite his mob lifestyle. And she's been in Alexis' shoes and knows it's better if the truth comes out as early as possible. Plus, she has no relationship, friend or otherwise, with Olivia for the latter to use against her.

[CPP83]

Yes.

~Ron

 

 

 

 

What the hell else would be worth writing about anyways?

 

I'm just waiting for the day he has one of the boys end up pregnant, probably Felix, and then he'll pull a hamstring patting himself on the back for being so "bold, daring, and genius".    

[dubbel zout]

To say nothing of Sam not knowing who her father was for years. 

[Oracle42]

Did Nik talk to his child about his psychotic double murder attempt before hopping into bed with Hayden? 

Edited May 7, 2015 by Oracle42

[General Days]

I think Sam not wanting to lie about her future brother/sister is in character for her, if these hacks actually cared about people acting "in character" rather than the next plot point. Sam was fine with raising three children with Jason despite his mob lifestyle. And she's been in Alexis' shoes and knows it's better if the truth comes out as early as possible. Plus, she has no relationship, friend or otherwise, with Olivia for the latter to use against her.

 

Wait. Who were the THREE children Sam raised with Jason? I'm counting Danny as 1, even though Jason/Sam never raised him. I can count Jake as #2, but again, Sam/Jason never raised him until drunken Luke Spencer ran down the poor boy.

 

Did Nik talk to his child about his psychotic double murder attempt before he hopped into bed with Hayden? 

 

No, he did NOT. But to be fair to Nik, I don't think anyone who saw what the kid did at the party, made a point to tell Nik. The whole scene made me want to vomit out a special, "Eff You to Lulu and Dante." They saw what this child did. He tried to kill Cam and Emma. He needs so much help.

 

Edited May 7, 2015 by General Days

[WendyCR72]

Wait. Who were the THREE children Sam raised with Jason, I'm counting Danny as 1, even though Jason/Sam never raised him. I can count Jake as #2, but again, Sam/Jason never raised him until drunken Luke Spencer ran down the poor boy.

 

Baby Hope, daughter of that dayplayer teenager years ago?

[OnceSane]

Did Nik talk to his child about his psychotic double murder attempt before hopping into bed with Hayden?

Pshaw. Nik doesn't have time to parent his child when willing vagina is waiting naked in his bedroom.

I wanna know how Hayden figured out that Jake is Jason. Did she sneak back into the MC and overhear Liz and Nik talking?

[kristabell]

Elizabeth will NOT be a rapist.  I am no fan of the character, and I think she will deserve all the fallout when it comes, and she IS a hypocrite of the highest degree, but it will not be rape.  Jake WANTS to be with Elizabeth, and more than likely, wants to sleep with her.  If and when that happens, it will be consensual sex.  The betrayal will come out when he realizes she lied to him about his identity.  It would be the same as a woman sleeping with a man who said he wasn't married when he was just to have sex with her or vice versa, but it's not rape.  It would only be rape if she were drugging him and he had no idea what he was doing, which is what happens on college campuses constantly and IS rape.  This is not.  Jake wants to be with her.  It's manipulation and deception at its worst, very similar to Ric's machinations actually.  Ironic huh?

 

 

 

 

"Rape by deception" and "rape by fraud" are very real legal offenses. For example, if you lie to someone about who you are, and if the person has "consensual" sex with who they think you are, it is still rape if that is a lie. Therefore, in this case, if Liz knows that Jakeson is actually Jason and doesn't tell him, that is in fact Rape by deception; i.e. if Jakeson had all the correct, relevant information, he would not be having sex with Liz; Liz knows this; therefore, rape by deception is what she's doing.

[OnceSane]

Wait. Who were the THREE children Sam raised with Jason? I'm counting Danny as 1, even though Jason/Sam never raised him. I can count Jake as #2, but again, Sam/Jason never raised him until drunken Luke Spencer ran down the poor boy.

Sam was willing to raise Lila (Baby Girl McCall), Hope and Danny with Jason.

Baby Hope, daughter of that dayplayer teenager years ago?

Yep.

[WendyCR72]

"Rape by deception" and "rape by fraud" are very real legal offenses. For example, if you lie to someone about who you are, and if the person has "consensual" sex with who they think you are, it is still rape if that is a lie. Therefore, in this case, if Liz knows that Jakeson is actually Jason and doesn't tell him, that is in fact Rape by deception; i.e. if Jakeson had all the correct, relevant information, he would not be having sex with Liz; Liz knows this; therefore, rape by deception is what she's doing.

 

I knew this. Thank you, Law & Order. Who says series TV can't be educational?  :-P  So a rape victim turns into a rapist herself under RC's pen. Gross.

[KerleyQ]

Did Nik talk to his child about his psychotic double murder attempt before hopping into bed with Hayden? 

 

What are servants for, if not to talk to your 10 year old about his murder attempt so you can get right to getting a piece? 

[WendyCR72]

Did Nik talk to his child about his psychotic double murder attempt before hopping into bed with Hayden?

 

Now, now...Ghost SWSNBN told her little demon about being "mean" during "Townie Talk". Clearly that is sufficient to this regime.

[jsbt]

I don't know if I'd call what Elizabeth is doing tantamount to rape. I think it's very close. I think as a person who suffered a violation, she should realize she too is violating Jason on at least some level and taking away his choice and informed consent.

[WendyCR72]

I don't know if I'd call what Elizabeth is doing tantamount to rape. I think it's very close. I think as a person who suffered a violation, she should realize she too is violating Jason on at least some level and taking away his choice and informed consent.

 

Not to be a smartass, but isn't what you just wrote, i.e. having the choice taken away and being violated, what constitutes rape? So, IMO, it is tantamount to rape and, as above, the law backs that up. (Not that it would stop Ron from going there.)

[thewhiteowl]

I think if this story comes to a head with Jason forgiving Liz, falling in love with her again, and then they and Sam/Patrick live happily ever after, Ron did it wrong.

 

 I have the opposite view. Jake has been into Liz since he woke up. He's not conflicted if he ever regained his memories he might be but it's not a given. If he doesn't and is just told that he is Jason, I would not expect him to automatically have any more feeling for Sam than he did for Haydenlee. He pretty clearly wants to be with Liz. They were headed to the bedroom when she showed up. Liz wanted him long before she knew he was Jason and he wants her. I don't see rape here but mileage varies.  Telling him he is Jason put him in the same position he was with Haydenlee with the added angst of tanking the family Patrick and Sam are forming. It's cruel and selfish of Liz but I see her point. Once she knew the truth she was screwed no matter what. Thanks, Nik!

[jsbt]

Not to be a smartass, but isn't what you just wrote, i.e. having the choice taken away and being violated, what constitutes rape? So, IMO, it is tantamount to rape and, as above, the law backs that up. (Not that it would stop Ron from going there.)

 

I mean, I pretty much agree, but there are people arguing all sorts of grey areas based on other examples and I am trying to be even-handed. If we mention the OLTL thing, then sure, it's definitely not the same as Todd and Marty where the dude basically raped her again after raping her before while she begged him to take her to bed because she had brain damage. But Jake/Jason also has, uh, a lot of that.

 

I'm trying to be charitable to other people's takes in my response, but yeah, I think she's violating him, I think it's disgusting.

[TeeVee329]

Pshaw. Nik doesn't have time to parent his child when willing vagina is waiting naked in his bedroom.

 

Relatedly, the security at Wyndemere is the worst.  Britt and Rebecca Budig both managed to sneak in, no problem.

[mybabyaidan]

 I have the opposite view. Jake has been into Liz since he woke up. He's not conflicted if he ever regained his memories he might be but it's not a given. If he doesn't and is just told that he is Jason, I would not expect him to automatically have any more feeling for Sam than he did for Haydenlee. He pretty clearly wants to be with Liz. They were headed to the bedroom when she showed up. Liz wanted him long before she knew he was Jason and he wants her. I don't see rape here but mileage varies.  Telling him he is Jason put him in the same position he was with Haydenlee with the added angst of tanking the family Patrick and Sam are forming. It's cruel and selfish of Liz but I see her point. Once she knew the truth she was screwed no matter what. Thanks, Nik!

 

Except he already does.  He has had numerous flashes of her, and even if he has said out loud that she isn't "his type"  there have been moments between Jake and Sam where that's obviously not true.  He definitely feels "something" when he is around her, a familiarity at least.   But she is not single, so of course he wouldn't pursue her.

 

I forgot to ask this before since I was too occupied with Liz....but anyone know why Valerie and Maxie were wearing those furry ears during their NB performance?  I couldn't figure it out....

[CPP83]

Pshaw. Nik doesn't have time to parent his child when willing vagina is waiting naked in his bedroom.

 

 

Waiting quite moistly by the way she carried on as well... 

 

I need brain bleach...

[HeatLifer]

I have the opposite view. Jake has been into Liz since he woke up. He's not conflicted if he ever regained his memories he might be but it's not a given. If he doesn't and is just told that he is Jason, I would not expect him to automatically have any more feeling for Sam than he did for Haydenlee. He pretty clearly wants to be with Liz. They were headed to the bedroom when she showed up. Liz wanted him long before she knew he was Jason and he wants her. I don't see rape here but mileage varies. Telling him he is Jason put him in the same position he was with Haydenlee with the added angst of tanking the family Patrick and Sam are forming. It's cruel and selfish of Liz but I see her point. Once she knew the truth she was screwed no matter what. Thanks, Nik!

No, what I'm saying is there's nothing interesting or dramatic if either Jason or Sam don't have feelings for the other. At least one of them has to like the other for this to work. Jason can't just be happy with Liz and Sam can't just be happy with Patrick. What's the point of the story? Just for Sam to be pissed for 2 seconds, but she's happy with Patrick, so oh well?

[Gigi43]

Shawn, Jordan was not nearly "assassinated". I immediately thought of that old Chris Rock bit, as I usually do in situations like this " John F. Kennedy and MLK were assassinated; 2Pac and Biggie got shot."

 

I despise Ron doing yet another story that involves a debate by the audience as to whether or not it's rape.

 

Is Anna setting Duke up or something? Am I really suppose to believe she'd just take off on Emma because he's decided to stop being a criminal for a moment?

 

Did I miss some throw away line about where Cam is supposed to be? Does Liz even know what happened with Spencer?

[Oracle42]

 I have the opposite view. Jake has been into Liz since he woke up. He's not conflicted if he ever regained his memories he might be but it's not a given. If he doesn't and is just told that he is Jason, I would not expect him to automatically have any more feeling for Sam than he did for Haydenlee. He pretty clearly wants to be with Liz. They were headed to the bedroom when she showed up. Liz wanted him long before she knew he was Jason and he wants her. I don't see rape here but mileage varies.  Telling him he is Jason put him in the same position he was with Haydenlee with the added angst of tanking the family Patrick and Sam are forming. It's cruel and selfish of Liz but I see her point. Once she knew the truth she was screwed no matter what. Thanks, Nik!

 

I think if Liz believed that he would choose her she wouldn't be lying to him right now. 

The thing is - when Helena told him weeks? months? ago that he was Jason his immediate impulse was to go to Sam.

He has had memories of Sam and he took that ridiculous phoenix figurine because it triggered some kind of memory/emotion for him. He wouldn't be in the same position that he was in with Haydenlee because he wouldn't be trying to recover memories that never existed. He'd be trying to recover more of the memories that he's already had and getting to know his son

[Lillybee]

Where is Aiden, BTW.

 

Poor Sonny, he is going to lose his front man and will have to get back into running his mob. My heart bleeds for him,

[TeeVee329]

Is Anna setting Duke up or something? Am I really suppose to believe she'd just take off on Emma because he's decided to stop being a criminal for a moment?

 

Did I miss some throw away line about where Cam is supposed to be? Does Liz even know what happened with Spencer?

 

No, I think Anna is sincere, which will make it all tragic when Duke...

 

There was a line that Jake(son) tucked Cam into bed.  No word on MIA Aiden.

[Rancide]

"Rape by deception" and "rape by fraud" are very real legal offenses. For example, if you lie to someone about who you are, and if the person has "consensual" sex with who they think you are, it is still rape if that is a lie. Therefore, in this case, if Liz knows that Jakeson is actually Jason and doesn't tell him, that is in fact Rape by deception; i.e. if Jakeson had all the correct, relevant information, he would not be having sex with Liz; Liz knows this; therefore, rape by deception is what she's doing.

 

Lawyer here.  Not really.  Rape by deception doesn't even exist in every state and is extremely narrowly applied even in those in which it does exists.  (There's a pretty famous case from a few years ago from California where a court held that it only applied if the person was impersonating your husband--even impersonating a boyfriend doesn't count).

 

Rape by deception, where it's recognized at all, generally only applies if you are having sex with someone you who you do not want to have sex with and are doing so only because you literally think the person you are having sex with is some other specific person who is known to you (no "rape by fraud" because you thought he was Tom Cruise but were mistaken) and who you do consent to have sex with.  Like if your boyfriend's twin brother thinks it would be "fun" to play a "trick" on you.  

 

Having sex with someone because they're confused about who they are may be gross but probably isn't a crime unless the reason s/he is confused about who s/he is relates to some judgment-impairing condition (e.g. intoxication, severe mental illness) that you know or should have known about.  

 

The law SERIOUSLY recoils from the idea that lying to someone to get them to have sex with you could be a criminal offense, in part because there's really nowhere to draw the line.  The legal system doesn't want to get involved over disputes about whether you would or would not have had sex with the guy you met at the bar if he'd admitted he didn't finish college instead of telling you he was a brain surgeon.  Or if he'd told you he was married.  

[LeftPhalange]

Where is Aiden, BTW.

 

Probably with Audrey.

[Oracle42]

No, I think Anna is sincere, which will make it all tragic when Duke...

 

There was a line that Jake(son) tucked Cam into bed.  No word on MIA Aiden.

 

Maybe Aiden is visiting Lucky in Africa

The first time I read that I saw MIAiden

Edited May 7, 2015 by Oracle42

[dubbel zout]

Relatedly, the security at Wyndemere is the worst.

 

Alfred is old, and Chandler is at Spencer's beck and call.

[Harmony233]

Anna was willing to leave robin behind when duke  went into the witness protection preogram if robin had wanted to stay with robert so no I dont really think its out of character for anna to leave Emma behind.

[BestestAuntEver]

Is it an acronym, or -- how does "tocks" relate/translate? Term Of Conception Killed Soon?

I don't think it is but I could be wrong (this show is killing off brain cells fast). I'm not sure where it came from but most baby stories use to follow a pattern and someone came up with tick/tock. "Tick" was for babies that made it to term and lived and "tock" was for those that didn't (falling down stairs, car accidents etc. )

[Asp Burger]

Is it an acronym, or -- how does "tocks" relate/translate? Term Of Conception Killed Soon?

 

No, it's like a clock mechanism. Usually on a soap, several women characters get pregnant every year, and if a baby gets born, that's the "tick," and so fans who know the genre predict the next woman will have a car accident, fall down the stairs, or something and it will be the "tock." It's a reference that it's "like clockwork." 

 

Usage: "I really want Pete and Trudy to have their baby, but I am afraid theirs will be the tock for Baby Gene."

 

LOL that BestestAuntEver and I were posting at the same time and used the exact same two miscarriage scenarios. We obviously both watched in the Guza years, when no woman was capable of navigating stairs!

Edited May 7, 2015 by Asp Burger

[HeatLifer]

Anna was willing to leave robin behind when duke went into the witness protection preogram if robin had wanted to stay with robert so no I dont really think its out of character for anna to leave Emma behind.

Anna doesn't even care about her daughter now. Lol. I'm not shocked she'd leave Emma.

[Harmony233]

I miss the days when shows would go a few years with no pregnacies lol.RC is the worse though with the stupid baby stories.

[thewhiteowl]

 

I think if Liz believed that he would choose her she wouldn't be lying to him right now.

 

 

 I agree because he has already done so. He left her because he thought he was married to Haydenlee but he didn't stop wanting her. He has had flashes of memory about Sam but was never inclined to pursue it because he wants Liz and Sam is with Patrick. Without his memories, he is Jake and Jake digs Liz. IMO 

 

[Kim0820]

The amnesiac is never understood.  Jake has no feelings for Sam.  If you told him he was Jason, he'd still have no feelings for Sam.  He thought Hayden was his wife and knew he had feelings for Liz, not her.   So unless he remembers, it's not anything he wants, because he doesn't remember it.  The amnesiac on soaps is always criticized for not loving his or her real love, but since they don't remember, they can't.  

[General Days]

Lawyer here.  Not really.  Rape by deception doesn't even exist in every state and is extremely narrowly applied even in those in which it does exists.  (There's a pretty famous case from a few years ago from California where a court held that it only applied if the person was impersonating your husband--even impersonating a boyfriend doesn't count).

 

Rape by deception, where it's recognized at all, generally only applies if you are having sex with someone you who you do not want to have sex with and are doing so only because you literally think the person you are having sex with is some other specific person who is known to you (no "rape by fraud" because you thought he was Tom Cruise but were mistaken) and who you do consent to have sex with.  Like if your boyfriend's twin brother thinks it would be "fun" to play a "trick" on you.  

 

Having sex with someone because they're confused about who they are may be gross but probably isn't a crime unless the reason s/he is confused about who s/he is relates to some judgment-impairing condition (e.g. intoxication, severe mental illness) that you know or should have known about.  

 

The law SERIOUSLY recoils from the idea that lying to someone to get them to have sex with you could be a criminal offense, in part because there's really nowhere to draw the line.  The legal system doesn't want to get involved over disputes about whether you would or would not have had sex with the guy you met at the bar if he'd admitted he didn't finish college instead of telling you he was a brain surgeon.  Or if he'd told you he was married.  

 

 

I don't think it is but I could be wrong (this show is killing off brain cells fast). I'm not sure where it came from but most baby stories use to follow a pattern and someone came up with tick/tock. "Tick" was for babies that made it to term and lived and "tock" was for those that didn't (falling down stairs, car accidents etc. )

Oh, the poor tock babies. :(

[HeatLifer]

Jake likes the person he thinks Liz is. Not someone who will now be lying to his face and manipulating him for probably months. He'll fall out of like fast.

[jsbt]

So, yesterday's show:

 

I know, I know, I'm still so disgusted with Spinelli and his behavior this return, but that number with him and Ellie locking eyes got me in the feels (yes, I do have them). I just really like her and them, and who he is with her as opposed to with Maxie. That was some hilarious shit though, watching his face fall about sixty stories during his Easy Listening reverie as he and Maxie realized the truth, then watching him skulk off to not face the audience(!) as Maxie visibly sweated bullets. I can forgive Spin for having an attack of, uh, whatever, but after Georgie and Levi and how she's treated poor, wooden Nathan I am once again done with Maximista.

 

I make a lot of fun of Ned and Eddie Maine's silly to lame stories over the years and I'm still pissed about what he did to Michael, but I can never stay too mad at Ned. He's just that goofy dad character. Let him sing his old rock songs! That was cute, old school GH. I'll miss him. I like him and Olivia.

 

Alicia Leigh Willis looked beautiful, though I still hate Courtney. Some of that dialogue for Spencer was clearly written to be emotional and heartfelt at the end, but Nicolas Bechtel delivered it like he was on his paper route. Classic Spencer!

 

I think Rebecca Herbst and the dialogue writers both actually sold her insane, desperate rationale monologue to Nikolas as best as they possibly could. She did a great job performance-wise and the writing - with Liz hissing about Sonny, Carly, etc. all getting what they want in life instead of her - made it work. The thing is, the only way out and through from here is for Elizabeth to have another psychological breakdown. You'd have to say she never got over losing her son to make it work for the character arc, and I think she didn't. I think you can say that she blames her affair with Nikolas for little Jake's death, I think she ties all of that behavior (and her behavior afterwards) back to losing Jason and that potential family as well, I think it's been a long downward spiral. I'm furious with Liz, but I do care about the character and I think there is real work that can be done. The problem is Ron always does it too late, or only during sweeps (hi, Duke!).

 

It's amazing how much more tolerable Sabrina is with Michael, even though I don't think that pairing is vital enough to go on forever. I like them together, they're sweet and she seems more mature. And for once "You're Not Alone" was actually very well-done and not too mawkish with her and Sonya Eddy. They used her right this year, as opposed to making her the central saint of the Ball. That long tracking shot of all the guests getting onstage at the end was very well-done,  It also reminded how much I want to see more of Lynn Herring and Lucy, and see her happy with someone again.

[Jazzy24]

Jake likes the person he thinks Liz is. Not someone who will now be lying to his face and manipulating him for probably months. He'll fall out of like fast.

I hope not, Jake/Jason is a passive worthless punk, he has no spark and waits for other people to run his life.

Liz can keep Jake/Jason he just needs to stay far away from Sam and Danny, I hope when he gets his memories back he still chooses Liz.

[dubbel zout]

We obviously both watched in the Guza years, when no woman was capable of navigating stairs!

 

We didn't call it a mistarriage for nothing.

Edited May 7, 2015 by dubbel zout

[HeatLifer]

I hope not, Jake/Jason is a passive worthless punk, he has no spark and waits for other people to run his life.

Liz can keep Jake/Jason he just needs to stay far away from Sam and Danny, I hope when he gets his memories back he still chooses Liz.

Well, regardless of his love life, he'll always be Danny's father and that should be another fallout covered: Liz is keeping him from his son.

[boes]

Does this reunion mean that Spinelli might be leaving?  Please?

 

Spinelli is what would have happened if Igor had brought Dr. Frankenstein a Jello Puddin' Pop instead of a brain and Dr. Frankenstein had attached that puddin' pop to a crescent roll.  Soft and squishy and Icky and utterly without taste.

 

I so wish Det. Kitty had just looked at Maxie and said, "Frankly, you idiot, I don't give a damn. Now GET OUT OF THE WAY!  Where is Anna???"

[yowsah1]

I think if this story comes to a head with Jason forgiving Liz, falling in love with her again, and then they and Sam/Patrick live happily ever after, Ron did it wrong.

 

Given the way the RC has been flogging SamTrick as The Greatest Love Of All and Aren't They Just so Very Happy And Perfect, I'm pretty sure Jason forgiving and choosing Liz while Sam and Patrick stay as the Perfect Happy Couple is exactly how it will turn out.

 

Ron made sure to protect the character of Patrick six ways from Sunday in this story for a reason.

 

The bus and train tracks running up and down Liz's back are really distracting during the scenes between her and "When is my contract up again?" Billy Miller as Jake as Jason Morgan.

 

I think this is just Ron trolling the audience again.  My guess is, if there is a scene where it looks like Jake and Liz are going to do it, he'll put the moves on her but she'll suddenly pull away because of an attack of conscience and he'll be all confused as to why she doesn't want to have sex with him.  Then Ron will point and laugh at the audience who actually fell for the trollbait.

 

Unlike Guza, RC does not deliberately incite and worsen fanwars and fanrage in order to boost ratings.  Unfortunately, in his desire to consistently troll online fans, and his plot point writing, he stumbles into that fraught territory and starts ripping off barely-healed scabs right and left.

 

"Rape by deception" and "rape by fraud" are very real legal offenses.

 

 

 

Lawyer here.  Not really.  Rape by deception doesn't even exist in every state and is extremely narrowly applied even in those in which it does exists.

 

Thank you for this breath of sanity in the ridic "Is Liz a rapist?" debate.

 

 

 

No, what I'm saying is there's nothing interesting or dramatic if either Jason or Sam don't have feelings for the other. At least one of them has to like the other for this to work. Jason can't just be happy with Liz and Sam can't just be happy with Patrick. What's the point of the story? Just for Sam to be pissed for 2 seconds, but she's happy with Patrick, so oh well?

 

Given how hard RC is flogging Oh Look How HAPPY SamTrick Are Together, I wouldn't put it past him to do exactly that.  I suspect we'll see Sam "torn" for a bit, then she'll fly back to Patrick and they'll renew their vows of love.

 

I've said it before and I say it again:  The person who finds out the secret and lies about should have been PATRICK.  He's the one who actually has a logical reason for "Jason Morgan" to stay dead and buried.  As one who values Liz as one of the most important legacy characters on the GH canvas (she's a direct descendant of STEVE FUCKIN' HARDY, ferchrissakes), it's maddening enough to watch her get tossed under the bus at every turn to make a story work, it's absolutely enraging to watch her get tossed under the bus FOR NO FUCKING GOOD REASON to make a STUPID story work when the story that practically WRITES ITSELF is sitting RIGHT THERE.

Edited May 7, 2015 by yowsah1