Episode Discussion: TFGH

[Bringonthedrama]

Tony and Jackie's affection for each other touched me today - Bobbie's tears got me. Good flashback for their last moments together.

 

Genie and Kin have such great friendship chemistry as Laura and Scott. They do very well showing a bond of history connected to the present. Such a marked contrast to the massive amount of garbage currently aired on this show. 

 

Morgan (now minus wolf hair) is so very much Sonny's son. Both hoping to cheat on Kiki while she's gone for the weekend, and worried about Kiki and AvaDenise talking before she leaves. 

 

ETA: Good to know Laura isn't just over Nik and Elizabeth's Jason Morgan/Jake Doe secret. Looking forward to more scenes of GF, TC, and BH. Seems like it's been a lifetime since they've had any scenes of substance. I wonder if she'll get a chance to (finally) address Nikolas and Liz about their betrayal of Lucky; it's somewhat relevant to what's going on now.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Bringonthedrama

[jsbt]

I understand people have their issues with Valerie, but "Nearest Convenient Doormat Locator" Maxie - who lackadaisically reunited with Spinelli out of self-obsessed discomfort when Nathan told her off for 5 minutes (and that's just her most recent sin) - trying to play Moral Authority makes me want to take to the streets with a chainsaw.

[Happywatcher]

I'm okay with Val the character, I like the actress and dislike Lulu the character so Dante getting some strange is fine with me.

 

I was on twitter and some people are ripping into Val's actress hard. Lots of hate.

 

 

 

+1 on Bobbie, nice to see her back near the middle of a story.

[Lillybee]

I wish that Luke had a good bye scene with Lulu. It looks like she is going to be abandoned by her father yet again.

[ulkis]

I think Ric accidentally used the yowling cat app instead of the crying baby one. And did he have a collapsible crib or something? How did he get that out of the room so fast?

 

Speaking of yowling cats, why is Franco caring about Kiki or judging Ava? Why is Ava crying about hurting her daughter? Just tell her!!! They've been dating for a month!!!

 

I mostly don't care about Madeline but her disdain towards Maxie amused me. If they wanted to use DM the right way they'd have her be the boss of Crimson or something and Maxie working under her.

 

When Kiki said to Morgan that they wouldn't be able to go out tomorrow night because she was busy, I thought to myself, they aren't actually going to say she went and got a job, are they? Aaaand they didn't.

 

Nice Luke/Bobbie scenes, and fiiiiiiinally, a real flashback to something from Luke's early years. 

 

previews: Oy, I have no love for Valerie, but mind your own business, Maxie. 

[ulkis]

This show has asked me to believe a lot of...unbelievable things.  But today?

 

Kiki has a friend?  An age-appropriate friend?  A female friend?  A friend who's not a SERIAL KILLER?

 

That's a step too far, show.

 

quick, what's more unbelievable, Kiki having a job or Kiki having friiiiiiends.

 

Maybe we can blame this "Sasha" for starting the whole "Kiki" nickname.

 

re: Maxie, to be fair to her, she did not actually get in Valerie's face . . . yet. Valerie walked into the room and she said "what is that homewrecking bitch doing here?" Which . . . minus points to Maxie for a) using trite phrases that make one's teeth hurt b) using them when she was that herself once, and much more and c) the Metro Court is a public place, she can go there if she wants.

 

Buuut, Maxie loves both Dante and Lulu and she's supported them, so if she, say, gave Valerie the evil eye and said something like "mess with my friend's marriage and I'm gonna kick your ass" I would understand even if it weren't her business. Which it is not, not really.

 

But getting all "homewrecking bitch!!" is ridiculous and trite and annoying and how you can tell this soap is written by someone who is mentally 15 and fond of using the worst of soap cliches.

[TeeVee329]

quick, what's more unbelievable, Kiki having a job or Kiki having friiiiiiends.

 

I'm ashamed that I didn't use the proper friiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiends spelling in my post!

But getting all "homewrecking bitch!!" is ridiculous and trite and annoying and how you can tell this soap is written by someone who is mentally 15 and fond of using the worst of soap cliches.

 

And, of course, puts 100% of the blame on Valerie when Dante's lips were there too.

[Bringonthedrama]

 

And, of course, puts 100% of the blame on Valerie when Dante's lips were there too.

That's just Maxie being Maxie. She doesn't care who's responsible for what; she blames who she doesn't care for/flat out hates. When Patrick cheated on Robin, Maxie put the blame on PsychoDoc Lisa and told Robin she's sure Patrick's hating himself right now because he loves Robin so much. When Lucky was cheating on Elizabeth with Maxie, she blamed Liz for being an unsupportive wife who didn't really love or deserve Lucky, just wanted him to be daddy to her son(s), blah blah.  

[backhometome]

Maxie is so annoying. I'm pretty sure the MC is a public place so anyone can go there. Also its not like Maxie was never a "home wrecker". So please shut up and sit down.

 

More flashbacks of Ava/Morgan doing the nasty. Just what we all wanted.

 

Count me in surprised that Kiki has friends. Still not a job.

[ulkis]

Maxie is so annoying. I'm pretty sure the MC is a public place so anyone can go there. Also its not like Maxie was never a "home wrecker". So please shut up and sit down.

 

"Only I get to homewreck Spencer marriages!!!!"

[TeeVee329]

"She better not pull any shit with a pillow!!!"

[ulkis]

"She better not pull any shit with a pillow!!!"

 

"Especially not SimmonsRest Beauty Pillow! That is MY pillow damn it! And bitch better not get pregnant, say she'll let Dante and Lulu keep the baby and then change her mind!!! I did it first! Fucking Johnny-come-lately!"

 

Oh, man. We could do this all day.

[OnceSane]

I'm ashamed that I didn't use the proper friiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiends spelling in my post!

 

And, of course, puts 100% of the blame on Valerie when Dante's lips were there too.

And penis*.

Only one flashback for Bobbie and Luke? Do better, show.

*I know Maxie doesn't know about the sex yet.

[WendyCR72]

That's just Maxie being Maxie. She doesn't care who's responsible for what; she blames who she doesn't care for/flat out hates. When Patrick cheated on Robin, Maxie put the blame on PsychoDoc Lisa and told Robin she's sure Patrick's hating himself right now because he loves Robin so much. When Lucky was cheating on Elizabeth with Maxie, she blamed Liz for being an unsupportive wife who didn't really love or deserve Lucky, just wanted him to be daddy to her son(s), blah blah.

Well, Maxie wasn't wrong about Liz!

[HeatLifer]

But getting all "homewrecking bitch!!" is ridiculous and trite and annoying and how you can tell this soap is written by someone who is mentally 15 and fond of using the worst of soap cliches.

Damn, @ me next time.

[ulkis]

Damn, @ me next time.

 

I don't mind when YOU do it. Sue me, I'm a hypocrite. :):):) Plus I don't recall you saying bitch, just homewrecker. :)

 

I don't even care that Maxie is saying it, really. I just acknowledge it is ridiculous coming from her.

Edited July 24, 2015 by ulkis

[mybabyaidan]

It's official:

 

http://abc.soapsindepth.com/2015/07/gh-headwriter-out.html

 

Let the celebrations begin.

 

(I know it's posted in the News thread, but not everyone goes there....we need to spread joy)

Edited July 24, 2015 by mybabyaidan

[Bringonthedrama]

Well, Maxie wasn't wrong about Liz!

Yes, Liz being unsupportive of Lucky's drug habit/lies (with their baby/toddler son in the home)  and not loving him for cheating on her in her bed with a teenager totally makes the failure of the L&L2 marriage all her fault. It's true that Liz fell out of love with Lucky over time and had feelings for Jason, but Maxie's attitude toward Elizabeth from the day she wanted Lucky for herself was just .. reprehensible.  It didn't stop there. I still remember years later, Maxie putting Liz down as a yucky mother, saying Matt would never find that pretty/sexy.

[DanaMB]

I don't care about Nina at all, but this gaslighting is terrible. I hate that Ric is doing it.  I know he's done evil in the past, but I had hoped we were past that.

 

And Franco being all offended on Kiki's behalf? Oh please. Sit your serial killing ass down.

[KerleyQ]

Well, that would certainly kill two birds with one stone, in terms of remembering all the secrets that everyone in town seems to have.  

 

My guess, Brad's family is the Asian mob and they needed to merge with another rival family and in order to do that the two children needed to marry.  Or it's a green card marriage.  Or he married himself, because that'll probably make as much sense as the truth, when we hear it in November.  

 

I've always hated the "I have to tell you something but instead of just spitting it out, I will continue to tell you that I have something to tell you until you get called away on something that must take your attention RIGHTNOW, and/ or you die in a fiery car crash where your body is never found."

 

Or "until the world's least accurate hitman tries to take a shot at you and hits me by mistake." 

[ulkis]

I don't care about Nina at all, but this gaslighting is terrible. I hate that Ric is doing it.  I know he's done evil in the past, but I had hoped we were past that.

 

And Franco being all offended on Kiki's behalf? Oh please. Sit your serial killing ass down.

 

It is terrible, but I just want her off my screen.

[movingtargetgal]

So, Luke is hitting the road for his "redemption" tour with his inner child.  I have no words.

[LeftPhalange]

The Luke and Bobbie scenes were the only good thing about this episode.

 

I might have a very tiny bit of respect for Ava if she would just stop pretending like she actually gives a damn about Kiki. Or HER BABY!!!!! for that matter.

[jsbt]

Sit your serial killing ass down.

 

Not a sentence I've ever had to consider while watching an ongoing soap opera, but that may be why Ron Carlivati is where he's at today!

Edited July 24, 2015 by jsbt

[WendyCR72]

Yes, Liz being unsupportive of Lucky's drug habit/lies (with their baby/toddler son in the home) and not loving him for cheating on her in her bed with a teenager totally makes the failure of the L&L2 marriage all her fault. It's true that Liz fell out of love with Lucky over time and had feelings for Jason, but Maxie's attitude toward Elizabeth from the day she wanted Lucky for herself was just .. reprehensible. It didn't stop there. I still remember years later, Maxie putting Liz down as a yucky mother, saying Matt would never find that pretty/sexy.

What about the emotional affair with Jason BEFORE Lucky sexed up Maxie when Liz was shredding police files and silently letting Sam be accused? All for her precious Jason...and while, as a nurse, she couldn't tell Lucky had a drug dependency because she was busy playing cow eyes with Jason.

Lucky cheating physically was wrong, but Liz got the ball rolling before that.

[Bringonthedrama]

What about the emotional affair with Jason BEFORE Lucky sexed up Maxie when Liz was shredding police files and silently let Sam be accused?

Lucky cheating physically was wrong, but Liz got the ball rolling before that.

A) We may be talking about/have different ideas of "affair." I remember Liz confided in Jason about being angry and hurt regarding the mess with Lucky, but they weren't all "Oh, I wish we could plan a future together" and she wasn't saying the L word to/about Jason until months (I forget how long) after their night together, which was the last night of Maxie and Lucky. I actually watched a clip recently where Liz was pretty early into her pregnancy with Jake, and said to Jason I'm in love with Lucky and you're in love with Sam. They all did crappy things at various times. But I don't understand why Sam is being brought into an exchange that is about Maxie's awful behavior and attitude regarding L&L2's marriage and her attitude toward Val now.

 

B) Actually, Liz and JJ's Lucky had a talk at Kelly's, after Luke hit Jake in 2011, where Liz reflected on choices she regrets and Lucky said the lies/deception in their relationship started with him. I think he may have been talking about the first Lucky recast, but my guess is the writers deliberately kept it vague.

[admiralrodcocker]

I'm so glad that Ron is gone, and this episode is a prime example of why. I am home sick and had no tolerance for the Nina/Franco/Kiki/Madeline/Nathan hour. I turned on a twenty year classic - Clueless - instead. Who the fuck cares about any of these people? Sorry, not sorry if these happen to be your faves. They are AWFUL. Oh please, oh please let this sorry ass group be the first ones to be axed!

[HeatLifer]

I want to see Billy play Jason without fist bumps, high-fives, "Titanic" references, and being referred to as "Big Jake." Pleassssseee new writers.

[rur]

I don't care about Nina at all, but this gaslighting is terrible. 

 

What's bothering me more is how stupid Nina is being. As someone upthread already mentioned, she should have been able to notice that the crying baby sounds were  coming from a) Ric's pants and b) the balcony when she was holding the doll.  If I were her, I'd be taking pictures of everything  with my phone. On the other hand, maybe that means she'll be sent offscreen to recuperate from her breakdown soon. And Franco will follow her. 

 

 

And Franco being all offended on Kiki's behalf? Oh please. Sit your serial killing ass down.

 

Amen. 

[WendyCR72]

I want to see Billy play Jason without fist bumps, high-fives, "Titanic" references, and being referred to as "Big Jake." Pleassssseee new writers.

 

If Billy Miller is taking an out, as is rumored, just keep Jason in the PC River. (I doubt Billy will go. But you never know.)

[dubbel zout]

My DVR decided not to record today, so I had to watch online. 

 

Bobbie's skin tone today was awful. As was JZ's face when Bobbie cried (or tried to). Yikes.

 

Today was a prime example of why GH is sinking in the ratings. The Bobbie/Luke and Luke/Young Luke stuff was the only thing worth watching, with maybe a bit of Laura/Scott thrown in. Otherwise, oh, the horror.

[HeatLifer]

If Billy Miller is taking an out, as is rumored, just keep Jason in the PC River. (I doubt Billy will go. But you never know.)

Billy has been "rumored" to be leaving since the first day that poor dude walked on the set. People have wanted him gone from the beginning out of some wish that Steve Burton will grace us once again. Not saying I'd be shocked if Billy left, but he is not the problem nor was he ever the problem. He needs good writing. He is an AMAZING actor who hasn't been able to showcase shit. They had Little Jake show up out of nowhere and the writing for Jason was "oh, hey, UR son, I'll read to him and play with him. Kewl."

Jason dying again would.kill.the.ratings. No payoff from this story will.kill.the.ratings.

[Donny Ketchum]

I'm so glad that Ron is gone, and this episode is a prime example of why. I am home sick and had no tolerance for the Nina/Franco/Kiki/Madeline/Nathan hour. I turned on a twenty year classic - Clueless - instead. Who the fuck cares about any of these people? Sorry, not sorry if these happen to be your faves. They are AWFUL. Oh please, oh please let this sorry ass group be the first ones to be axed!

I'm not glad, per se, that he was fired, but I can totally understand why.  Ron, when he focused on the characters who've been around longer, could be pretty amazing or pretty terrible, depending on what he did.  But he brought about some pretty good stories when he was focusing on them.  But there was no amazing or terrible with his new characters.  Nathan excepted, they've all been just plain terrible.  (I admit I'm a rare fan of Nina, but I won't deny the writing for her has been terrible from jump.)

[movado23]

I haven't watched GH in many years but decided to jump in to catch the end of Luke. The writing on this show is beyond bad - how do these people even say these lines ? Bobbi and Monica - plastic surgery has destroyed you. This is all very depressing to watch.

[Gigi43]

I haven't seen the full episode yet so I'm holding off on my comments I just here to celebrate Ron being out! But what I saw of Luke/Bobbie did look good. When is TG's very last airdate?

[Harmony233]

I haven't seen the full episode yet so I'm holding off on my comments I just here to celebrate Ron being out! But what I saw of Luke/Bobbie did look good. When is TG's very last airdate?

monday.

[stlbf]

Shut up Maxie! Truly, you are not one to judge anyone.

The more I ignore the stupid gaslighting of stupid Nina, the better it is for my health and tv. Why wouldn't Nina use her cell phone to record the stupid sounds that she hears?

Still hate the useless Sabrina. She singlehandedly ruined Michael Quartermaine!

I like the actress playing teen Pat. Maybe she can play one of Scotty's daughters? Or a recast Kiki? Paul and Jenny's unknown daughter?

Still can't figure out why Luke and Bill Eckert looked alike. Since Bill was related to the Spencer kids via their mother and Bill's dad being siblings. And now it seems that Luke looks just like his dad. Unless the spector of Tim looking like Luke was solely in Luke's head.

Later RC! :)

[ByaNose]

For some reason, I always thought RC & FV were a package deal. I guess not. LOL!!! RC was a pretty good writer on OLTL. He supposedly was a fan of GH beforehand but he really had horrible time management with writing for the characters of GH. I do appreciate him specifically asking and writing for Donna Mills. She's been really good as Madeline (though basically Abby) and, it will be interesting to see how she's written or even considered with the new writing team.

[fishsanwitt]

I'm glad RC is gone gone gone, but look who they have put in his place - two more losers - Altman and Passannte (or however you spell her name - sorry about that). They were just *fired* from Y&R. Is there NO-ONE out there who can fucking write?

[WendyCR72]

I'm glad RC is gone gone gone, but look who they have put in his place - two more losers - Altman and Passannte (or however you spell her name - sorry about that). They were just *fired* from Y&R. Is there NO-ONE out there who can fucking write?

 

It's a vicious circle. Not to defend the incestuous hire-fire of writers from one soap going to another to also fail, but I doubt outside writers would go near soaps since they are still gasping for breath. Ironically, fresh blood could help, but with the future so uncertain, I see why outsiders stay away, hence the constant recycling.

 

That and most of the soap-writer greats are no longer with us.

[jsbt]

I never really thought they'd be separated, either. But when Logan turned on RC, and that twitter hashtag (#whyratingsarelow) went viral and didn't let up, I had a feeling he might be done. Ron has never faced that kind of sustained public pressure before.

 

The only question was whether Frank would fight for RC. I think Frank's loyalty is conditional, and I am not at all surprised he survived.

[ByaNose]

Is there anything such as new soap writers? It seems like head writers get fired and go to another soap as a associate head writer and then back again. Is soap writing just so different that they aren't discovered? I'm surprised the networks don't have their own programs for future writers for soaps. Maybe, they do and I'm not aware of it. Anyway, I doubt RC will be working in a soap anytime soon. All the others soaps are taken. Not that they couldn't use a new writer but I doubt RC will be on one of them.

[SlovakPrincess]

I get that soap writing is different and there's far more pressure to output A LOT of stuff ... but I still don't understand why these writers go from show to show, not understanding the fundamentals of good storytelling - like, making the story make sense, and satisfying to watch, and not writing characters out of character.  

[dubbel zout]

Maybe Ron'll work on an ABC Family show. Or Nickelodeon, given his love of precocious brats.

[Bishop]

re: Maxie, to be fair to her, she did not actually get in Valerie's face . . . yet. Valerie walked into the room and she said "what is that homewrecking bitch doing here?" Which . . . minus points to Maxie for a) using trite phrases that make one's teeth hurt b) using them when she was that herself once, and much more and c) the Metro Court is a public place, she can go there if she wants.

 

Buuut, Maxie loves both Dante and Lulu and she's supported them, so if she, say, gave Valerie the evil eye and said something like "mess with my friend's marriage and I'm gonna kick your ass" I would understand even if it weren't her business. Which it is not, not really.

 

But getting all "homewrecking bitch!!" is ridiculous and trite and annoying and how you can tell this soap is written by someone who is mentally 15 and fond of using the worst of soap cliches.

I LOVED Maxie's "homewrecking bitch" comment.  It's very much in character for Maxie, and I'm sorry, but Valerie DID set her sights on Dante for the specific purpose of coming between their marriage.  Yes, Dante is guilty, but I can't stand Valerie, and I can't wait for Maxie to get in her face.  

[OnceSane]

I LOVED Maxie's "homewrecking bitch" comment.  It's very much in character for Maxie, and I'm sorry, but Valerie DID set her sights on Dante for the specific purpose of coming between their marriage.  Yes, Dante is guilty, but I can't stand Valerie, and I can't wait for Maxie to get in her face.

I disagree. I don't think Valerie initially intended to make Dante hers or break up his marriage. Now? She's playing nice but I expect her to do some shady shit to break up Lante, especially if Dante says anything more about their "connection" in order to get Valerie to keep her mouth shut.

[ciarra]

Dear Neeenah, please quit shopping at Forever 21, because you're not. 

If I hear Luke, Sonny or Lucky whine about pain and their dark place one more time, I'm going to send them a case of Monistat.

[Lillybee]

I think that bringing back LilJake because of Helena may have been the last nail in RC's coffin.

[jsbt]

(Almost) everything wrong with what Ron Carlivati's writing has become over the last five or six years of public success can be conjured up in the larger balance of today's GH:

 

• Y&R star Michelle Stafford, who has only been on this show a year, frontburnered for weeks, crawling around on her hands and knees like an animal and howling about missing babies while Rick Hearst taunts her with a phone app cleverly named "WAAAAAAHHHHH!!!"
• Serial killer Franco (OLTL star Roger Howarth), dressed like a Con Edison repair man, having a tearful heart-to-heart with ATWT star Maura West in a cheap Party City wig about her deep dick monkey love for village idiot Morgan, most famous for his performer's offscreen social media crusade against Muslim dog eaters
• Knots Landing star Donna Mills having a ponderous discussion with plasticine, well-meaning newbie hunk Ryan Paevey about Y&R star Michelle Stafford, then arguing with a deeply bored Kirsten Storms
• Laura Spencer and Scott Baldwin doing absolutely nothing of note
• A desperate attempt to try and tie an artful bow on the horrific Fluke arc and the lame, cheap and rushed "final Spencer adventure," as Tony Geary staggers out the service exit with almost no personal dignity left intact but his much-loathed Luke and Laura reunion blocked
• Morgan and Kiki, doing anything at all

 

As to other notes:

 

I love Jackie Zeman, I always have and I always will; Bobbie is one of my favorite characters. But Jesus fuck, she's wrecked her face even worse. She looked much better a couple months ago and it's once again crippled her acting ability. Her crying jag looked like a pumpkin about to explode. Please stop, Jackie! I love you! Call a friend! And Bobbie and Luke's final conversation was far too superficial and greeting-card fodder. But the final moment was sweet.

 

Also, I don't expect them to do it, but I'll say it once again after today's show - there is no reason not to cast Joey Luthman (Young Luke) as a SORASed Cameron*** to amp up drama for Liz and her horrible behavior, and possibly Ric's demise. That guy is great. And how fitting that Tony Geary's final days gave him one more young man to share a conspiratorial wink with! No, really, those scenes with those two were actually the best with Luke all episode, which is saying something, sadly. I don't actually mind the angle of Luke simply leaving to rediscover himself wandering the Earth - I think it's one of the few things that fits after the ridiculous and terrible story over the last year, one of the few honest conclusions they could come to with him, and I suspect it is (was) a setup by Ron Carlivati for Luke to potentially, someday, hopefully return enlightened and ready to reunite with Laura. I just wish this entire storyline, not just in the last week but over the last few months, the last year, hadn't been such a fucking debacle.

 

***Also, as I said over in another thread, they might as well SORAS ol' Spencer too - get someone like Daniel Manche (Emo J.J. Snyder) from ATWT, who's always been kind of a kooky twist, and let Spencer's obvious queer flag fly. I mention him because I just spotted Manche in a horror movie on Netflix by chance the other day, he's dark and Tyler Christopher-esque, and he's still a very interesting sort of actor as an adult (also he got naked in the movie, and that was a little weird).

Edited July 25, 2015 by jsbt

[LeftPhalange]

 

Serial killer Franco (OLTL star Roger Howarth), dressed like a Con Edison repair man

 

 

her deep dick monkey love

 

Fuck.