Episode Discussion: TFGH

[Tiger]

If you go with the scene, yes. However, I'm thinking of the Most Beautiful Times in Port Charles. Jasus got Dock and Rolled, Monica just called up her real son, AJ went about truth telling, Micheal learned many factual things. Like that Carly stole her mother's husband, Tony Jones and just didn't want AJ to be the father. And meathook! So, therefore, since Jason went into the river (thanks Faison!), and Monica pulled AJ out of a hat, it was trading Jason for AJ. Then Sonny killed AJ and magically Jason was alive somewhere.

We can blame Jason for everything. Team AJ.

AJ may have been a drunk and FAT, FAT, FAT, but at least he didn't kill people for money.

[dubbel zout]

Please. Fat >>>>>>>>>>>>> murder-for-hire on the OMG TEH EVUL scale.

[Chairperson Meow]

AJ may have been a drunk and FAT, FAT, FAT, but at least he didn't kill people for money.

AJ never ever gave up on his son. Nor did he make a replacement Micheal. AJ also never stopped being a Quartermaine because it wasn't easy. #ReasonsWhyAJIsBetterThanJason

[ulkis]

Faux Ron on Twitter posted s picture of that scene and I sure as hell hope it was bunchy underwear because otherwise it's just gross! I mean sure MW is a beautiful sexy woman, but geez kid, if you're going to get a hard on doing MAKE BELIEVE sex scenes, maybe you should pursue another line of work. Or at the very least, take a cold shower right before filming.

Pontius Pilate (@GHTweeterer)

7/18/15, 12:45 AM

Explains where all the blood that's supposed to be going to his brain is going #GH pic.twitter.com/UAHctUqB5I

 

I'll cut him some slack, I'm sure it happens to a lot of actors, it's not like they're not actually touching and kissing.

[HeatLifer]

That happens to a lot of actors. It's not a big deal, really, but TPTB probs should have caught it, if anything.

[Oracle42]

If you go with the scene, yes. However, I'm thinking of the Most Beautiful Times in Port Charles. Jasus got Dock and Rolled, Monica just called up her real son, AJ went about truth telling, Micheal learned many factual things. Like that Carly stole her mother's husband, Tony Jones and just didn't want AJ to be the father. And meathook! So, therefore, since Jason went into the river (thanks Faison!), and Monica pulled AJ out of a hat, it was trading Jason for AJ. Then Sonny killed AJ and magically Jason was alive somewhere.

We can blame Jason for everything. Team AJ.

 

I think for me, AJ's death was the first big indication that RC didn't really have a plan for the show. He killed off a member of a legacy family that he'd just resurrected - who had great chem with all of his costars because he hadn't figured out a way to deal with Ava killing Connie. AJ and Jakeson could co-exist, in fact, this story would actually be pretty watchable if AJ/Jakeson had been building a relationship this whole time - and if it had been Carly/AJ at the Hell No Wedding instead of Sonny. But RC decided Ava/AJ couldn't co-exist while AJ was the only person who knew that she'd shot a woman in the stomach and left her to bleed out.

RC put his own creation (and ego) ahead of a legacy character who had more existing relationships and more potential story - and he's been doing it ever since in stories that have gotten progressively dumber and sloppier

Edited July 19, 2015 by Oracle42

[Francie]

I'll cut him some slack, I'm sure it happens to a lot of actors, it's not like they're not actually touching and kissing.

 

 

That happens to a lot of actors. It's not a big deal, really, but TPTB probs should have caught it, if anything.

I remember Robert Woods, whom I adore, saying that after a love scene, he would apologize to his screen partner if he'd get, err, aroused.  And he'd apologize if he didn't.

[LeftPhalange]

I think for me, AJ's death was the first big indication that RC didn't really have a plan for the show. He killed off a member of a legacy family that he'd just resurrected - who had great chem with all of his costars because he hadn't figured out a way to deal with Ava killing Connie. AJ and Jakeson could co-exist, in fact, this story would actually be pretty watchable if AJ/Jakeson had been building a relationship this whole time - and if it had been Carly/AJ at the Hell No Wedding instead of Sonny. But RC decided Ava/AJ couldn't co-exist while AJ was the only person who knew that she'd shot a woman in the stomach and left her to bleed out.

RC put his own creation (and ego) ahead of a legacy character who had more existing relationships and more potential story - and he's been doing it ever since in stories that have gotten progressively dumber and sloppier

 

I'm sure Ava will end up dead eventually once Ron gets bored with her and/or gives up on trying to "redeem" her. AJ's death is just delaying the inevitable.

[Oracle42]

I totally agree but that actually makes it worse. I dunno, maybe he has impulse control issues. He doesn't seem to think things through

Edited July 20, 2015 by Oracle42

[Chairperson Meow]

We could be having AJ/Jakeson scenes, but instead we have Ava in a wig with a bad accent. They're really making great use of Maura's talents!

[Sake614]

We could be having AJ/Jakeson scenes, but instead we have Ava in a wig with a bad accent. They're really making great use of Maura's talents!

That'll teach her to win an Emmy!

[Chairperson Meow]

That'll teach her to win an Emmy!

Well, yeah!

Ron literally got handed the easiest freaking job ever- write GH and get ratings. What did the fans want?

Less mob, more actual stories

More legacy families, basically any family not new and not named Corinthos

He did the exact opposite of that.

[ciarra]

If Neenah's hotel bill was so huge, I wonder what Anna's was?  Not that Anna ordered any food, but the room would be pricey.

[ulkis]

Well, yeah!

Ron literally got handed the easiest freaking job ever- write GH and get ratings. What did the fans want?

Less mob, more actual stories

More legacy families, basically any family not new and not named Corinthos

He did the exact opposite of that.

I give RC a lot of crap but I don't think writing GH is the easiest job ever at all. You have to write a new episode almost every day, and balance around budget, scheduling, network notes, etc. I don't think I could do it. Although I don't think RC can anymore either really.

[Chairperson Meow]

I give RC a lot of crap but I don't think writing GH is the easiest job ever at all. You have to write a new episode almost every day, and balance around budget, scheduling, network notes, etc. I don't think I could do it. Although I don't think RC can anymore either really.

I meant that rhetorically.

[UYI]

That happens to a lot of actors. It's not a big deal, really, but TPTB probs should have caught it, if anything.

 

There are at least two instances on GH I can think of where this has happened before. I remember reading once that someone noticed this happening to Brad Maule when Tony and SJB!Carly were making out once on the couch.

 

And of course, there's the infamous Montauk incident with SBu and KMc. I've seen THAT screencap. ;) 

[dubbel zout]

"I don't know how you guys walk around with those things." /Elaine Benes

[cmahorror]

And of course, there's the infamous Montauk incident with SBu and KMc. I've seen THAT screencap. ;)

 

 

Okay, I haven't heard about this and I have not seen that screencap.  Help please?

Edited July 19, 2015 by cmahorror

[UYI]

Okay, I haven't heard about this and I have not seen that screencap.  Help please?

 

Normally this would go in the History thread, but here it is. Look very carefully at SBu's...erm..lower area at the beginning of this clip. He seems to be enjoying things a bit too much. ;)

 

[BestestAuntEver]

I will not fall into the YouTube rabbit hole. I will not fall into the YouTube rabbit hole.

Ugh, my JnR loving heart remembers this. Damn, I smiled reminiscing and watching the whole thing. To bad Jason has been dead to me for years. Still not over his treatment okay Robin during JnR II or the break up. That's why I don't care if, Sam or Liz has him. His a tool!

[Rancide]

A lot of viewers have simply lost faith in the show.

 

This is where I am.  Have taken GH off my DVR, check in here every couple of weeks to see if there's any point in tuning back in.  I don't know these characters, I don't care about them, don't have a single couple I'm rooting for, don't find the dialogue engaging or amusing.

 

I made excuses for RC for a long time after many had given up on him.  The show WAS better there--briefly--and he did have a lot to struggle with that was hugely disruptive and beyond his control, like the impending cancelation then non-cancelation, the sudden loss of his OLTL characters, Tony Geary's recovery taking so much longer than expected, etc.  But it's been long enough.  No more excuses.  The show just blows.

 

I'll probably tune back in for the last couple of months before its cancelation just out of sheer nostalgia.  But otherwise I have no interest.

[ulkis]

I made excuses for RC for a long time after many had given up on him.  The show WAS better there--briefly--and he did have a lot to struggle with that was hugely disruptive and beyond his control, like the impending cancelation then non-cancelation, the sudden loss of his OLTL characters, Tony Geary's recovery taking so much longer than 

 

for my own part I feel zero sympathy for losing the OLTL characters. They should have never been there in the first place. TG I feel a bit iffier about, but really, a 67 year old man getting spinal surgery, maybe you might want to have a contingency plan in place.

 

But it's funny, because in both those instances he just screwed himself even worse, by bringing back the three OLTL characters as new characters a month later, and with Tony geary by switching the story mid stream because people guessed who it really was. It makes me sigh.

[TeeVee329]

The Tony Geary situation was out of Ron's hands, to a point.

 

But he didn't have to have Fluke sneer, "Wouldn't you like to know [who am I]?" in the final scenes they shot before Tony Geary's break.  Nor did he need to basically reset the story to square one when Tony Geary was finally back.  That's all on Ron.

[Oracle42]

for my own part I feel zero sympathy for losing the OLTL characters. They should have never been there in the first place. 

 

Honestly, the fact that losing those characters caused so much damage to his stories pisses me off. They were all front-burner for months before the lawsuit and apparently RC was planning to keep them there indefinitely and tough luck for the viewers who were hoping to see General Hospital instead of the continuing adventures of OLTL transplants 

[WendyCR72]

Honestly, the fact that losing those characters caused so much damage to his stories pisses me off. They were all front-burner for months before the lawsuit and apparently RC was planning to keep them there indefinitely and tough luck for the viewers who were hoping to see General Hospital instead of the continuing adventures of OLTL transplants 

 

Hence RC keeping on useless Silas and SERIAL KILLER Franco so as to keep his OLTL pets employed. So in his head, he probably thinks he still won (even if he barely uses Silas and keeps paying ME for...reasons).

[Ambrosefolly]

I would trade Silas for McBain, but the one thing I can't help thinking about how much better Roger Hogworth would have worked as Stephen Lars Webber. To make it less weird, they should have had him played the character as soon as OLTL wrapped instead of trying to insert Todd Manning into Port Charles. 

[Rancide]

Meh.  I was always okay with the OLTL characters (and I never watched that show).  I felt bad for the fans of the show when it was canceled and was happy for them that they had someplace to see at lease some continuation of the stories and people they cared about.  Plus, it wasn't like GH didn't need another infusion of viewers from somewhere--and badly.  

 

I assumed the characters they brought over were some of the show's most popular, and frankly I'd much rather have a character that has already succeeded elsewhere, even if it was on a different show, than random new front-burner characters that may turn out to be huge flops (Kiki, Silas, Nina, Nathan, Rafe, etc.)

Edited July 20, 2015 by Rancide

[ulkis]

Meh.  I was always okay with the OLTL characters (and I never watched that show).  I felt bad for the fans of the show when it was canceled and was happy for them that they had someplace to see at lease some continuation of the stories and people they cared about.  Plus, it wasn't like GH didn't need another infusion of viewers from somewhere--and badly.  

 

I assumed the characters they brought over were some of the show's most popular, and frankly I'd much rather have a character that has already succeeded elsewhere, even if it was on a different show, than random new front-burner characters that may turn out to be huge flops (Kiki, Silas, Nina, Nathan, Rafe, etc.)

 

I think I would have been more okay with it if they weren't being written by a writer who clearly preferred these characters. At least, it seemed like that.

[boes]

I LOVED OLTL, loved it.  And I was very unhappy to see it and AMC end.  AMC, at that point, was almost a mercy killing, but still, I'd watched it since Day 1 - same time I started watching GH.  OLTL I came to late, but learned to love quickly.  It had some awesome charactors portrayed by very good, clever actors.

None of whom made the transfer to GH.  Although I enjoyed Howarth in his OLTL role, he wasn't my favorite, and as an actor, was too fickle to depend on IMO.  His attention to the role varied with his mood.

I utterly despised the Starr character and actor, and felt only a bit less for Michael Easton and his character.

 

But no matter how much I missed OLTL, I didn't want some sort of hybrid GH - melding the two in any form would only result in a mutation.  GH, AMC, and OLTL were different creatures, they weren't interchangeble and you just couldn't throw characters from one show to another and think it would work.  And IMO it didn't.  It felt so phony.  

 

And I wouldn't have been any happier to see GH characters move to OLTL if OLTL had lived and GH hadn't, and the same for AMC.   Yet somehow Ron C. thought that would work.......He did some good work on OLTL, but he also did some absolute DRECK.  Terrible stuff.

And now, IMO, that's about all he does with GH.  

And while Easton is more of a non-entity these days, Howarth is beyond dreadful.  So much for the success of his OLTL actors/characters.

Edited July 20, 2015 by boes

[jsbt]

I think the infusion of the OLTL characters worked at first and brought more viewers to a show on the edge of cancellation, and I stand by it. There were mistakes with them right off the bat, though, such as killing both Starr's boyfriend and daughter (Cole going presumed dead would've been sufficient), then killing poor Téa's baby. I was not her undead husband Victor Jr.'s biggest fan, but he was a fascinating character, and the pairing with Téa was admittedly hot and had a lot of fans; that fanbase already had lost Victor on OLTL, it didn't need to lose the kid too on GH. I suspect that Ron had planned to eventually reveal Cole, Hope and both Victor and little Victor III to be alive a la Robin, but we've seen how far RC can string a story along when left to his own devices. It was too much too fast for too faraway a payoff.

 

The bigger mistakes with the OLTLers came later, when they began to rush story along, skip character beats and piss on their territory to try and deter Prospect Park. I think there was a very limited shelf life for how long you could play long-distance triangles with Todd, McBain and their OLTL love interests vs. their new GH ones - their fanbases didn't deserve to be doing that for years on end. You needed to make a clean break, or commit to having those past characters around more. Worse, they neglected key elements of GH. The stuff with A.J. and Carly was dynamite, Sean Kanan was incredible, but all they cared about was bringing back the same OLTL actors in new roles. That choice to bring back the trio with kludged-in new characters singlehandedly crippled the show in a way it has never recovered from. There have been ups and downs since, but they've never come back from that because that mentality is still intact, and they've only doubled or tripled down.

 

And honestly, even before things really went off the rails in '13, there were real problems. Plenty of dumb stories, plenty of lousy functional dialogue or too much comedy. The early Heather Webber stories went bad fast, Connie/Kate was unbearable, Trey and Kristina, etc. The good outweighed the bad, for awhile. But not for long. Some things have improved or been done away with since then, but the fundamental, worst error they ever made - the return of the OLTL 3 - has never been dealt with, and it colors everything they do now.

 

It's not just a question of those three actors, either, but of the stubborn impulse involved - more thirty-second scenes, more barely functional dialogue mixed with quippy in-jokes, more guest stars, more plot over character. It's all gotten much, much worse since 2013. But they'd rather keep blaming Prospect Park. They had a motherlode of GH-centric history and characters to work with right then and there - people and stories they had brought back, like Lucy, Deception, Laura, A.J. - and they fumbled it all in favor of pursuing an ego trip with their old stars.

Edited July 20, 2015 by jsbt

[RedRockRosie]

jsbt, I couldn't agree more with your assessment of this show. I watched GH from '63 until Guza's killing spree took out Allen Q & Georgie. Only reason I came back was to see my OLTL peeps after ABC cancelled it.

 

Yeah, too much story with them too fast, no reason to kill Cole & 2 babies.Too much outright goofiness & silliness. Ron had a goldmine of history just with GH & he blew it. Damn shame these writers have such big fat egos & so little to back it up.

 

Yup...I think you are right on with everything you said above. 

 

Edited to add Georgie! How could I forget her?

Edited July 20, 2015 by RedRockRosie

[TeeVee329]

I suspect that Ron had planned to eventually reveal Cole, Hope and both Victor and little Victor III to be alive a la Robin, but we've seen how far RC can string a story along when left to his own devices. It was too much too fast for too faraway a payoff.

 

Wasn't there some weirdness, right before Starr fled the state, of somebody spying on her, watching her lay flowers on the side of the road where the accident happened?  It seemed they were going to tap into the Cole stuff sooner than later, probably because Michael/Starr were a boring couple.

 

And then there was the Retconia mess, which could have easily been avoided since John of all people could have had the cleanest reason to come to town - he and Natalie split, he needed a fresh start, so he came to investigate the mob with old mentor Anna.  Done.  They didn't need to make up crap with some sister the OLTL audience never heard of, let alone cared about.

[Francie]

And then there was the Retconia mess, which could have easily been avoided since John of all people could have had the cleanest reason to come to town - he and Natalie split, he needed a fresh start, so he came to investigate the mob with old mentor Anna.  Done.  They didn't need to make up crap with some sister the OLTL audience never heard of, let alone cared about.

 

She was the first We(-2)NeverCared.  Except she really was WeNeverCared.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Francie

[Ambrosefolly]

Yeah, but how would they insert Sonny into OLTL storyline?

[TeeVee329]

John didn't need a special, personal reason to target Sonny.  He's a cop/FBI agent, Sonny's a mobster.

[Ambrosefolly]

John didn't need a special, personal reason to target Sonny.  He's a cop/FBI agent, Sonny's a mobster.

True, but Sonny needs that shade of being a martyr. If John was targeting Sonny because Sonny is a murderous criminal lord, he would be almost justified!

Edited July 20, 2015 by Ambrosefolly

[Oracle42]

I think McBain's attraction to Jason's wife was a much more compelling wrinkle, the sister was completely unnecessary. Though I could've done without all the tedious Caleb/Livvie "we have a mystical connection" winks at the Port Charles fans.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Oracle42

[dubbel zout]

Retconia was so stupid. Anna could have brought McBain in as someone with no ties to PC and therefore a cop she could trust to help her take down Sonny. It would never have happened, of course, because Sonny never loses, but it would have established John in PC. 

 

She was the first We(-2)NeverCared.  Except she really was WeNeverCared.

 

McBain's never-seen dead fiancée Caitlyn was his first WeNeverCared. I think that's what brought him to Llanview in the first place.

 

I guess Ron wanted McBain to have his own version of the Sonny/Karen story, but we knew Karen, so her decline meant more.

[TeeVee329]

And, of course, Sonny was just trying to help Retconia like the good little mobster he is, Joe Scully Jr. was to blame.  Blech.

[swtrgrl]

Can someone point me to where I can figure out this OLTL cast thing? I mean, how did they write them off then have them show up as different people? I never watched OLTL but I live in the you know, world ...so I know who Todd, Starr, etc... are/were.

[Chairperson Meow]

Can someone point me to where I can figure out this OLTL cast thing? I mean, how did they write them off then have them show up as different people? I never watched OLTL but I live in the you know, world ...so I know who Todd, Starr, etc... are/were.

Roger Howarth played Todd. Todd escaped from prison via Carly's help and disappeared. Starr was dating Micheal and left him to go to LA. McBain is still on a secret FBI mission.

The actress who played Starr originated Kiki. Roger Howarth was Franco. McBain was Silas.

[rur]

And that's all the explanation that anyone got. They all just disappeared, then later they just showed up again in new storylines.

Edited July 20, 2015 by rur

[Dandesun]

I thought they made it fairly clear that Todd was going back to Llanview because he kept getting drunken phone calls from his other daughter (the not one, I refuse to accept it!) and, also, he got some sort of missive from a mysterious source that sent him back to Llanview, too. McBain's whereabouts were far more mysterious and, yes, Starr just went to LA the way she left OLTL in the first place.

 

And then they came back as completely different characters. New, in the case of Silas and Kiki, and recast, in the case of Franco.

 

And that's when the angels started weeping. (I'd actually debate that but... whatevs.)

[TeeVee329]

IIRC, Starr got a frantic call from who I think we were supposed to assume was Langston.

 

McBain's fictional end - disappearing into an endless FBI assignment - is pretty fitting, actually.

[backhometome]

I cant wait for Luke to leave then Lulu will stop being obsessed with him. Her first thought at Jake being back was being happy for Luke. Not Lucky or Elizabeth. She also needs more friends instead of talking to Daddy all the time.

 

Carly is the worst. According to her Jason was the most amazing person ever the night Jake died. Not Lucky/Liz that signed off on the organ donation. 

 

Elizabeth and her bitch face at the mention of Sam/Danny getting to know Jake. 

 

So Laura will be another person that knows about Jason. Of course.

[Bringonthedrama]

"Enjoy this miracle and raise his two sons"?!! Laura, Lucky has three sons! Ugh that people talk like both Cam and little Jake haven't always been his sons! Hate that everything is about Jason. I'm sure RC's all "irony! awesome!" about Carly going on to Jakeson about Jason. LOL at Carly: "I know my daughter!!" Ugh at Jakeson "You're a good mom."  Dude, you don't even really know Carly and have you ever even met Morgan??

 

Elizabeth doesn't care about the details?!! I don't believe that for a second. More b.s. writing. I guess I should be grateful that Robin got a mention when she was talking to Patrick, and he had tears in his eyes (I assume about both little Jake and Robin). Shouldn't Patrick do some scans, seeing as the person most recently escaped from Helena had a mind-control chip in his brain? I assume some of you are amused or disgusted by Liz tensing up and looking unhappy that Patrick figures Sam will want little Jake to have a relationship with Danny. I figure Jake won't be able to understand what it means to have 'two" fathers and a brother aside from Cam and Aiden for some years.

 

UGH that Lulu's talking like Luke's a hero because little Jake has been returned to Elizabeth and Lucky is safe.

 

Good for Tracy for not wanting Luke back.  Shut up, Dillon.  It was funny though, that an actor can make "Enjoy your pancakes" sound like F you. 

 

I'm disgusted that so far the one reaction I'd like to see is Cam's reaction to his brother Jake turning up alive after years of mourning. Instead, time is devoted to Carly's reaction and Jakeson's support of her. 

 

I will acknowledge that Laura and little Jake appearing to have a little bond is sweet to see. Nikolas' utter lack of emotion at seeing little Jake alive is so very Cassadine.  Unsurprising that Laura accidentally overheard the secret. 

Edited July 20, 2015 by Bringonthedrama

[Lillybee]

When was the last time that Carly actually spent some time with Joss? I think that she has been too busy servicing Sonny's dick to take the time to see her kids.

[TeeVee329]

I'm disgusted that so far the one reaction I'd like to see is Cam's reaction to his brother Jake turning up alive after years of mourning. Instead, time is devoted to Carly's reaction and Jakeson's support of her. 

 

In theory that's something I want to see, but the kid playing Cameron is...not the best.

 

Did Liz even name check him today?

Edited July 20, 2015 by TeeVee329

[HeatLifer]

Patrick can DIAF. What an absolute dumb fuck.

[Bringonthedrama]

 

 

Did Liz even name check him today?

Explain?

Patrick can DIAF. What an absolute dumb fuck.

This could apply to various things he's said or done, could you be more specific?