S01.E05: Cobalt

[Yolapukka]

 

That said, I wasn't clear if "cobalt" involved clearing out that entire camp or just the hospital area.

 

Excellent point, I assumed they meant the entire safe zone, but it could have referred to the quarantine/ medical facility. That dialogue too was vague to say definitively what was being referenced.

[JusLaugh]

You're not alone English Teacher! We'll be the small minority that seems to be enjoying the show. I did laugh at the teenagers playing dress-up bit. Not because it was funny but in a face-palm kind of way. And those walkers all in a stadium? Good luck to that part of the world once they get out.

 

I, too, am a part of this club--I really like the show. It is more of a TV drama right now than a gory zombie series like TWD, but I am getting a kick out of all of the characters and the situation. 

 

I think both Alicia and Chris are extremely angry kids who have no control over their lives and who's parents never listen to them. That is a recipe for a teen acting out. Add the boredom of the prison camp they're in and it is the perfect storm. 

 

Nick must be the luckiest junkie in the history of junkies. Love the new guy and hope the character is in it for the duration.

 

Madison and Liza are both highly adaptable to any situation and very strong women.

 

Salazar is bad ass! 

 

Travis...meh, but I am coming around.

 

The one complaint I have is the way they portray the military. They use the premise of "just following orders" to justify their degrading attitude the writers have assigned this unit. Sorry, but one of the first things you learn in basic training is about lawful and unlawful orders and how not to follow the unlawful ones. Also, our military is not like the ones Mr. Salazar had experiences with. First of all, the US military is all volunteer, not thug-napped kids who have been brain washed to follow some doctrine. Second of all, those of us who have served took an oath to protect, not to destroy our own citizenry, so I don't like when apocalyptic writers portray the military as oppressive asses who just follow unlawful orders and mow down innocent civilians without question. 

Edited September 28, 2015 by JusLaugh

[JBody]

^^^YES.  Thank you.

[riverheightsnancy]

Ok so, I like the show, but I have never watched TWD. Not really a fan of Zombie shows, but I liked the focus of this show in the previews, so I gave it a try. Here are some questions that I do not understand regarding Zombies. If the answers contain spoilers, please hide. I do not mind the spoilers though. 

 

1. Once a person turns, will they stay zombie "alive" forever unless they get a head shot? 

2. Can zombies exist forever without eating? Can they die of starvation?

3. Will the Zombies turns on each other and eat each other? 

4. Do Zombies have strength or cognition? If so, why couldn't Susan bust through or go around the fence?

5. Can Zombies open doors or figure out things like putting a key in a lock? 

6. Will Zombies eat ANY live thing (cats, dogs, fish, wild animals, mice?)

7. It is a virus? (I assume). Does it affect ALL living things? 

8. Can dead people (in cemetaries) become Zombies?

9. Does the person have to be infected as a live person and THEN they can become Zombie after they die? If never infected, never a Zombie?

10. So, if this is an infection, is it safe to say that anytime any person dies, they WILL become a Zombie?

11. Where did the virus come from? Is anyone immune?

12. How does exposure occur?  Body fluids, aspiration, only by bites, blood? 

 

Ok, I hope that is not too many, but some of these questions have been bugging me since day 1. I agree with everyone else. These guys need to start preparing for what may happen. Stockpiling weapons, food, water etc... It is about to get real serious. The military was actually keeping them safe. Not anymore. Strand is a very interesting character, wondering where it all goes with him and addict boy. 

Edited September 28, 2015 by HalcyonDays
Added spoiler tags

[that one guy]

 

It's been less than two weeks and the military, consisting of people who are trained to deal with conflicts that could potentially last years, has already devolved into a bunch of evil, cowardly, and incompetent bullies?

I guess this is why I was nervous about this setup and appreciated skipping the fall of civilization on TWD. The zombie apocalypse is an interesting setting, but there's no realistic story to tell about how we get there. I realize that distrust in government has become a core element of the American character, but there's no way the military would lose LA in 9 days to an enemy that is not organized and hasn't even mastered the doorknob. A zombie outbreak is not actually the end of the world. I appreciate the arena reference to Katrina, but the comparison is poor - you can't just shoot the Mississippi River in the head. With zombies, tell everyone to stay inside and clear block by block with armored vehicles. Evacuation is stupid because lots of people crammed together in a shelter are zombie chow if somebody turns. If you are locked in your house, you only kill your own family because zombies are too stupid to get out of the house by themselves.

 

To make it worse, the show definitely makes it seem like things are under control in L.A. Much of the city is evacuated. There are a few random zombies roaming around but it's not tough for the army to shoot them. There's a big mess contained in a stadium. (As others have pointed out, drop a bunker buster on the damn thing.) But streets around the safe zone are mostly quiet, Madison and Salazar and Travis have all been able to go out and explore and come back pretty easily, it's not like there are hordes of zombies pressed up against the fence. So why are they evacuating. Are the out of supplies? How? It's only been 2 weeks.

 

We saw things go badly for the troops at the library, but their tactics were terrible.  It just doesn't make sense. I don't think Kirkman was ever interested in figuring out exactly how civilization fell, he was more interested in what happened next. So while I'm mostly enjoying this show, I'm not sure why it exists.

 

But the "let's dress in rich people's fancy clothes and trash their stuff in an angsty expression of how little material things matter" shit was just stupid and a waste of time.

 

Call me extremely shallow, but I don't feel that finding an excuse to put Alycia Debnam-Carey in that dress was a waste of time. Wasting the champagne, however, was tragic.

 

ETA: The actress is actually pretty great. I know she can rock an apocalypse, because she plays a post-apocalyptic warlord on "the 100," although I didn't realize that until today because the roles are so different and the performances are nothing alike. I blame the writers for not giving her much of anything to do.

Edited September 28, 2015 by that one guy

[Omar G.]

Excellent point, I assumed they meant the entire safe zone, but it could have referred to the quarantine/ medical facility. That dialogue too was vague to say definitively what was being referenced.

 

The scene where Christopher and Alicia are watching the military vehicles clear out in the middle of the night suggests to me it's the entire safe zone that's being abandoned/cleared, not just the hospital.  I could be wrong, but that was my reading of it.

[Anela]

 

 

I'm unspoiled, so I'm curious to see if Shawn Hatosy is a regular on this show, or will be offed in the finale. A tortured man forced to go along and get along with his torturer has all kinds of plot potential.

I wonder if he dies from his injuries (or if Daniel kills him, since he can't send him back to his friends/co-workers), and he turns.

 

I don't understand why they are leaving at all. Did they say why? It makes no sense to me to waste all those supplies and food and everything on those people just to... leave later and leave them behind? Are they planning to kill them too? I don't remember.

 

Why?

I think the character mentioned above, said something about "humane termination". I also don't understand why they would just kill people. Maybe they've lost too many men elsewhere, so they need to move on, but that's no excuse for killing healthy people.

 

I also liked Liza taking the gun, and putting down Grizelda (?), before she could reanimate. 

Edited September 28, 2015 by Anela

[JBody]

OK, I'll bite *snicker*

 

1. Once a person turns, will they stay zombie "alive" forever unless they get a head shot? Yes.

2. Can zombies exist forever without eating? Can they die of starvation? They can die of starvation according to Milton.

3. Will the Zombies turns on each other and eat each other? No. Has not been demonstrated.

4. Do Zombies have strength or cognition? If so, why couldn't Susan bust through or go around the fence?  Not individually.  However fresh zombies are faster, stronger, and herds can mow down fences, etc.  However S1 of TWD had zombies picking up rocks and climbing ladders...  A few years on and many herds are of zombies in various stages of decomposition.

5. Can Zombies open doors or figure out things like putting a key in a lock? Again S1 showed Morgan's wife turning the door knob, explained as "muscle memory," so not true cognition.

6. Will Zombies eat ANYTHING live thing (cats, dogs, fish, wild animals, mice?) Yes.  Alive is the key.

7. It is a virus? (I assume). Does it affect ALL living things? Assumed virus,  Lots of fan spec that it is some kind of bioweapon.  Only humans seem affected.

8. Can dead people (in cemetaries) become Zombies? Hasn't been demonstrated.

9. Does the person have to be infected as a live person and THEN they can become Zombie after they die? If never infected, never a Zombie? Everyone's infected, everyone will turn into a zombie unless there is severe brain trauma.

10. So, if this is an infection, is it safe to say that anytime any person dies, they WILL become a Zombie? Yes.

11. Where did the virus come from? Is anyone immune? Don't know and don't know.

12. How does exposure occur?  Body fluids, aspiration, only by bites, blood? Exposure irrelevant.

Edited September 28, 2015 by HalcyonDays
Added Spoilers Tags

[HighMaintenance]

Biggest laugh of the night was the U.S. Army commercial playing after a few scenes of the show's military's asshole behavior.

Just because there is not much else to watch on Sunday night at this time, and I'm looking for just "fluff" on TV, however I'm continuing to subject myself to this show. Why? I'm hoping that at some point it is going to get interesting or better. However this show is as someone stated upthread as a quick "cash grab" due to the popularity of TWD. Fear TWD is like a cross between a Lifetime lady drama and a "SyFy Original" movie.

Apparently there is a "Walking Dead" maximum per episode limit. Due to budget, no doubt. So far out of a population of 4 million, we've only seen: zombie Gloria in the church, zombie Calvin in a water culvert, zombie homeless guy in the park (assumed - as it was just a guy shambling), neighbor Peter, the Dog whisperer, zombie neighbor Susan, zombie doughnut waitress "Kimberly" (who looked like zombie Rhianna), and zombie Library Patron #1. Listen show, I might "Fear" the walking dead if there were more than 7 walkers in 5 episodes.

They should have renamed it "Fear the Invisible Walking Dead".

So much exposition could have been done indirectly regarding the impending apocalypse without having to show hordes of thousands of zombies. How about our lead characters relating the smell of the putrid stench of thousands of dead bodies in the air? Where are the moans of the undead and the tortured screams of the still living outside Camp Barrio?? Even just occasionally in the background?? When there are minimal autos driving, no electricity, no aircraft - these sounds would carry far and wide. None of the characters seem hungry or thirsty (or curious). No scenes of them breaking into other houses scavenging food or bottled water? Arrgh! So frustrating.

I totally agree on the military so quickly becoming the evil Schutzstaffel and shooting regular citizens AND taking ten minutes out of their race downtown to shoot a donut shop waitress who was trapped in the store. And then bullying a citizen to shoot her. Thanks for the anvil to the head, but I get it, military = evil. However, Lt. Moyers was dispatched without any fanfare. Usually a villain gets a graphic comeuppance. Show couldn't even deliver on the that!

Not sure what sense to make of the saleman in the cage with junkyboy. I'm guessing he needs him as a meat shield/zombie bait to get the hell out of zombie hospital? Also, he may be keeping him as his Renfield and promising him drugs if he will be zombie bait. No, that would be too interesting.

Whenever they mention dropping a bomb on LA, I'm reminded of the scene from The Simpsons - "We've tried nothing, and we're all out of ideas!"

[KirkB]

I certainly don't have all the answers but I can hazard a guess based on what Walking Dead has shown.

 

1. Once a person turns, will they stay zombie "alive" forever unless they get a head shot? No, sort of. It seems zombies do rot but slower than corpses used to. In time it appears they may rot away but their head remains 'alive' and hungry until there is nothing left of it.
2. Can zombies exist forever without eating? Can they die of starvation? Yes and no. They cannot die of starvation as such, but some of them seem to become less and less energetic if they don't feed, laying around until something attracts their attention. 
3. Will the Zombies turns on each other and eat each other? They don't seem to view one another as food or rivals for food. At best other zombies moving just seems to trigger them to move in the same direction.
4. Do Zombies have strength or cognition? If so, why couldn't Susan bust through or go around the fence? Strength, yes, though how much varies on their degree of freshness and of course the writers. Some can be pushed away easily while others seem to have learned wrestling in their undeath and are pretty good at tying people up while they try to eat them. Cognition, not appreciably, though it has been hinted the newer or more intact ones may have some shadow of their muscle memory intact so they can try doorknobs or even climb fences.
5. Can Zombies open doors or figure out things like putting a key in a lock? Not much since the first season. This is the sort of thing which varies a bit more depending on the writer. Usually they just run headlong into doors and then pound on them.
6. Will Zombies eat ANY live thing (cats, dogs, fish, wild animals, mice?) Yes. If it's alive they will eat it if they can catch it. Rick found a horse and turned it into a buffet. Dogs will eat zombies too though, so I guess it's only fair.
7. It is a virus? (I assume). Does it affect ALL living things? We don't know. The show has gone out of its way not to say. Humans are the only zombified living things we have ever seen though.
8. Can dead people (in cemetaries) become Zombies? Maybe. There has never been a scene showing one way or the other. It's hard to know if a given corpse dug it's way to the surface or not.
9. Does the person have to be infected as a live person and THEN they can become Zombie after they die? If never infected, never a Zombie? It was eventually revealed that everyone is somehow infected. So anyone who dies from anything other than massive head trauma will apparently come back seeking flesh if something isn't done to prevent it.
10. So, if this is an infection, is it safe to say that anytime any person dies, they WILL become a Zombie? Yes. Unless the cause of their death was head trauma. A mostly intact brain seems to be a requirement for them to come back.
11. Where did the virus come from? Is anyone immune? The answer to both is we don't know. We're not even sure if it IS a virus, since pretty much everyone who might have a clue seems to be dead. And as for immunity, the only way to test that would be to kill them and see if they rise again, which is kind of a one way thing.
12. How does exposure occur?  Body fluids, aspiration, only by bites, blood? Okay, now this is not as clear an answer. Since everyone is already infected if they die they turn. BUT, there does seem to be something in zombie fluids (blood, saliva, etc.) which if it gets into the human system makes at least some people sick and they die faster. Maybe. The problem is, based on evidence of the ongoing Walking Dead its not certain if the bite itself makes people sick or if the damage from the bite (or any damage really) triggers the zombitis to spread faster.

They are deliberately vague on this. 

Edited September 28, 2015 by HalcyonDays
Added Spoiler Tags

[Irishmaple]

I'll pour myself a glass of wine and settle in here at the table for one. I'm really sorry Moyers didn't make it. I appreciated that guy. He had no time for self-indulgence. Awake for 50 hours? Welcome to the end of the world. Don't believe it's the end of the world? Have a ride-along and see for yourself. I liked that he killed every zombie to cross his path, pro-actively culling before a horde collected. I can appreciate the ruthlessness of making the head count a source of pride for his young soldiers. I liked him introducing Travis to the cold reality of the dead walking among the living, letting Travis have a glimpse of the ugly choices Moyers made to that point. He killed zombified, infected and innocent men, women and likely children, and he had to order and habituate his people to it as well in the dying hope of retaining control of Los Angeles. He went to help a pinned-down squad without hesitation. Asshole or not, I liked the guy.

Which makes the show challenging for me now because I dislike most of the focus characters. I like Liza and I can tolerate Nick, and small doses of Chris. But the rest? I can't stand Madison and have no time for Alicia's self-involved angst. Bored? Go find someone to help. I despised Daniel's explanation that the torturer suffers too. Bullshit. One of you is tied to a chair and the other is making the choice to hurt that person.

I'll stick around for the finale because Zombies, but I haven't formed any attachment to this show. After six episodes of the mothership, I was all in.

[English Teacher]

Yes. But frankly I didn't see the importance of that. In the promo he says that the Center was like the soldier said so he must have been telling the truth? Or something like that? Oookay.

I also don't get the importance of the Center, it's as if all hell will break loose when the zombies there break out. But there were millions of people in LA, are they telling us that all people and zombies have been cleared except those? What?

Cause frankly, 2000 is nothing compared to the millions that should be walking around. Like someone said, LA must be hell by now.

I thought perhaps Daniel plans to use the hoard as a means to prevent Operation Cobalt and provide a distraction so he can get to his undead wife. Of course it is insane to unleash a thousand score of walkers but this episode has portrayed him as a man willing and capable of anything to "protect" his family.

[Ronin Jackson]

I'm annoyed with this Strand fellow. Here I was, ready to quit this show after the season finale since the writers have utterly failed to concoct any interesting characters or situations, and this dude comes in with a few minutes of screentime and makes me interested and curious what he's up to... even though the rest of the episode was dull. Hopefully they kill him off in the season finale so I can quit the the show as scheduled.

[JBody]

Irishmaple, I'll join you at the table, if you don't mind.  I enjoyed Moyers' scenes and am a tad annoyed that he was fragged without so much as a how-do-you-do.

[riverheightsnancy]

Thank you (KirkB & JBody) for those answers. That helps my understanding. 

[The Mighty Peanut]

I don't have a huge problem with Travis being reluctant to accept that people aren't just sick. It's been 9 days; what's easier to believe--that death is no longer a permanent state and corpses are reanimating as mindless flesh eating beasts, or that people are suffering from some sort of horrible combination of airborne rabies and a necrotic bacterial infection? So, the whole military dick waving trial-by-fire adventure seemed, well, stupid.

I also don't accept that things would have deteriorated into sanctioned military mass murders and corrupt shithole internment camps with deeply rooted hierarchal complexities at this point in time. I think the trouble with this show is they had to go from zero to ZA in six episodes and so could not establish a consistent portrait of the time in between the shit being dispersed and it actually hitting the proverbial fan. It's a bit of a catch 22 because I wouldn't have wanted to watch three episodes of people watching news coverage about a strange virus. At the same time, Madison's acceptance of the new world and Travis' lack thereof both seem fundamentally screwy.

I think a LOST format that combined flashbacks with the present day would have been so much more effective.

Edited September 28, 2015 by The Mighty Peanut

[mightysparrow]

I'm annoyed with this Strand fellow. Here I was, ready to quit this show after the season finale since the writers have utterly failed to concoct any interesting characters or situations, and this dude comes in with a few minutes of screentime and makes me interested and curious what he's up to... even though the rest of the episode was dull. Hopefully they kill him off in the season finale so I can quit the the show as scheduled.

 

You and me both.

 

I had honestly forgotten that Colman was even on this show and then I checked Facebook on Sunday morning.  I knew he was going to be good but I had no idea he'd be so mesmerizing. Maybe it's because of what he's being compared to.   I'd be happy if the rest of the cast were chomped except for Salazar.  Then, in season 2, he and Strand could roam the countryside torturing and conning people.  At least once per episode, each one could have a monologue to add to their Emmy reel.

 

That would be must see TV.

[Timetoread]

I know this is a show that is based on fantasy but the way people act is so unrealistic to me.

The world is ending so you get dressed up and break things? Wtf?

And what is with speaking in metaphors? Like the guy with Nick? Who talks like that? And Ophelia's mom? Again, the way she was talking - like she is someone on a tv show, not like an actual person. All the dialogue is very obviously lines on a tv show versus anything natural or organic.

So many holes. The military plan is to kill everyone except themselves? Why? Just because it is an evil thing to do and makes for a plot?

Nothing is organic on the show.

 

So much this!!  I got what they were trying to say with the teenagers, but wouldn't it be cool if one of the teenagers was a "prepper" and instead of trashing the house, they looted it for survival materials and showed up to the house packe and ready to go, once the adults figured out that it was time to go.  And the guy in the cell with Nick.  Why is he in a hospital?  Isn't that the hospital?  And the death of Ophelia's mom was indeed wierd, unless it turns out the she was the head warlord in their old town and married one of her henchmen.  Otherwise, it's just stupid.  And who names their kid Ophelia.  Did they read Hamlet?  Don't they know what happened to Ophelia?  And God, YASSS about the military.  There is no way all of them would have had all those guns pointed at one hysterical woman.  They would have called over the one guy and been like, "Dude, you girl is freakin out and wasting all the booze by throwing it at us. Please make that stop."

 

And Madison - she gets her own line of text for me to say, I just can't with her and her stupid face anymore.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Timetoread

[Lyra Angelica]

But they are leaving L.A. to film in Canada, so I doubt it!

 

So I take it "head for the desert" is no longer the plan?

[cmfran]

It was interesting to see value still placed on material things, like the cuff links. I think I also spotted the back of one of the military vehicles loaded up with a big flat screen TV and a bicycle. In the present-day of TWD, jewelry/money/electronics/etc. would have no value at all. 

[rab01]

I thought I saw a looted flat screen on that truck.  ... Why would anyone take it? What TV show do they plan to watch?

[Bad Example]

I loved your quote so much Mightysparrow I brought it over from the live chat. (It closed before I could respond.)

 

How did this wonderful, awesome character find his way on this show?

 

Nick's so lucky! He's trapped with a smooth talking magician! I can't wait until he Houdinis both of them out of that cage.

 

He was so happy when he got the gig.  I can only pray that, for the show's sake (and the viewers), he's the exception to the 'Dead Black Actor' rule.  Because this show needs Strand (that's his name) desperately.

 

Interesting the magician reference- he immediately put me in mind of the voodoo guy in Disney's The Princess and the Frog.

I find the character creepy and not a nice person (the way he manipulated Doug into more hysterics and his removal)... but at the same time my biggest thought was, "FINALLY. NOW the show is starting."  He is just some much-needed energy.

 

8. Can dead people (in cemetaries) become Zombies? Hasn't been demonstrated.

 

 

 

Thank you (KirkB & JBody) for those answers. That helps my understanding. 

I'm going to disagree a little bit with their answer to #8, because we saw

some bodies that had long been buried in a riverbank emerge as Walkers as the ground eroded.  To me that implies that there are a lot of Walkers banging around in caskets.  

[JBody]

It's a bit of a catch 22 because I wouldn't have wanted to watch three episodes of people watching news coverage about a strange virus. *snip*

 

Me neither The Mighty Peanut but CNN or whatever should've been on in the background during the Monopoly game with the kids checking their phones every 2 seconds.  Oh right, the entire communications structure of the first world fell in a day.  Surely there's a ham radio operator out there but we'll never see it.  It's instant nineteenth century but with infinite gasoline.

Edited September 28, 2015 by JBody

[JBody]

*snip*

 

 

I'm going to disagree a little bit with their answer to #8, because we saw

 

 

Sorry about possible spoiler but it aired years ago so I'm going to reply thusly:

the flash flood zombie -- my assumption was that he or she had been buried by said flash flood during the zombie outbreak, which at that point was going on 2 years I think? 

It is possible that cemeteries are filled with zombies waiting to bust out but it hasn't been demonstrated.  My opinion is that this thing was airborne and everyone who was alive at the time it happened was infected -- people dead and gone before then wouldn't have been infected.

[Yolapukka]

 

So I take it "head for the desert" is no longer the plan?

 

 I'm guessing head for the mountains instead? 

 

I may be misremembering, but I think after epi 1 they started shooting in Vancouver except for some exterior shots, so for all we know they could remain trapped in LA, but escape their safe zone so we could get another season of Madison clutching a coffee cup in a house while she glares at and second guesses everybody, only this time they are squatting somewhere, hoarding supplies and hiding from the military and walkers. Sounds exciting.

Edited September 28, 2015 by yuggapukka

[Ohwell]

Daniel has officially lost my business with his unnecessary torture. I hate torture. The fact that this has been his jam before is not ok. Shawn Hatosy was willing to cooperate and he still cut him. I know he may have been holding back info on Cobalt, but still.

 

I'm sick of Daniel's speeches about the lawless post-zombie hellhole he lived in years ago before coming to the US.

 

And now I want him to get eaten.  He didn't have to torture that soldier.

 

I thought Crispy Shirt was gay and just wanted to use Nick as his plaything.

[The Mighty Peanut]

Sorry about possible spoiler but it aired years ago so I'm going to reply thusly: the flash flood zombie -- my assumption was that he or she had been buried by said flash flood during the zombie outbreak, which at that point was going on 2 years I think?  It is possible that cemeteries are filled with zombies waiting to bust out but it hasn't been demonstrated.  My opinion is that this thing was airborne and everyone who was alive at the time it happened was infected -- people dead and gone before then wouldn't have been infected.

I agree with you but they've been inconsistent about the

incubation period between death and reanimating. Amy took the entire night, but the dying man Milton was studying with Andrea took 5 seconds.

Maybe a slow turner would be slowed further by being in a cold morgue and/or embalmed, making it possible to wake in his casket. I'm sure hastily buried murder victims from the early days are pretty common.

Alas, I think too much about zombies.

Edited September 28, 2015 by HalcyonDays
Added Spoiler Tags

[Chicago Redshirt]

I thought I saw a looted flat screen on that truck.  ... Why would anyone take it? What TV show do they plan to watch?

If you assume that the outbreak is containable, eventually electricity will be fully restored, and new TV shows will be filmed or at a minimum you can watch whatever's been done to this point on bluray/DVD. 

 

Not that we'll get back to it, but I think it would be cool to have an update of the Twilight Zone classic "Time Enough At Last," wherein a bookish man lucks into surviving a nuke strike, makes his way to a library and relishes the notion of being able to spend an eternity reading...until he breaks his glasses. 

[peach]

I was really hoping they had to evacuate before Brenda and Brandon had a chance to change out of their formal wear.

 

I really kind of wanted them to at least go home like that.  See if anyone even fucking noticed.  Hey, just out doing a little shopping, Mom.  I want to see Chris and Alicia team up and go all Bonnie & Clyde or something.  Anything.  While everyone else whines and wrings their hands over Nick.

[kaydub]

I think I can put my finger on what's been bothering me about this show. I have no sense of impending doom for these people. At all

 

 

same here with me! like what's been stressed by most of this forum since episode one, the main characters have witnessed people being run over/shot that stand right back up and don't stay dead. they've seen a man eating a dog in their living room. and there's no panic, no fear, no struggling to keep it together or struggle to not freak out. they're all just THERE. maybe i'm just a paranoid or hopeless, but if that were me and my family, i'd be slightly more panicky and crying and trying to hold it together, and not just wandering around with a blank look like "oh." there's just no feeling of the doom and danger that everyone has to know is coming.... why is no one expressing/experiencing that?

[RedHackle]

I think I may have said already that it's as if they took every single thing that makes TWD great and have done the opposite here.  I was completely hooked on TWD before the end of the pilot episode.  We knew who Rick was, and kind of who Shane and Laurie were as well.  No we didn't know everything but we knew enough.  And, as previously mentioned, details, details; they so matter.  These might seem like small nitpicks but on a show about zombies, it's kind of important not to hit the viewer over the head and remind them repeatedly that they're watching a silly show that has no consequences - mostly because they writers themselves don't believe in it.

 

 

Here are my tiny nitpicks,  all indicative of a bigger problem, I think.

 

- The "torture works" trope.  I know there are people who still argue this one in real life, so we're not likely to abandon it, but if you're going to do that, can you try to have some consistency from shot-to-shot on exactly what the physical damage being done is?

- No matter how bored he is, Alicia got Chris to try on clothes with her?  Seriously?  Are teenage boys that much more malleable than they used to be? Oh, and while we're on the subject, every single item of clothing in this stranger's closet that Alicia tries on fits her like a glove?  Please.  Half the clothes in my own closet don't fit me.

- Madison is still making her teenage daughter's bed?  I highly doubt it.  Don't most parents generally make their kids start making their own beds at around 9 or so?  Or was that just me, AKA, Meanest Mom in the World ?

- There's  zombie apocalypse raging and teen daughter Alicia is so overly-protected that her parents don't even want to tell her what's happening...and yet, with martial law declared and curfew on, we still let her and teenage boy wander around the neighborhood with no worries.  Right.

- As others have said, the stupidity of the writing for the military characters doesn't even merit discussion.

 

Having said all that, like others, I was intrigued by this new character, Strand, is it?  My thought was "oh good, something to make me not hate watch this show".

[KirkB]

When my power goes out and I start to freak out a little. I have to imagine that if my neighbors started trying to eat me I would...well, run screaming for the hills comes to mind. 

 

Oh, and zombies or not, neither Travis nor Maddie seemed to even notice Chris and Alicia were gone a good part of the day, especially considering the army just made off with Nick.

Edited September 28, 2015 by KirkB

[Cthulhudrew]

I don't understand why they are leaving at all. Did they say why? It makes no sense to me to waste all those supplies and food and everything on those people just to... leave later and leave them behind? Are they planning to kill them too? I don't remember.

 

I'm still trying to figure out why this particular neighborhood of Silver Lake was selected as a base camp/survivor's enclave. It doesn't appear to have any strategic significance, is populated by a mix of well-to-do people and people who can't even afford to get their front windshield fixed (it would be easier to fix it than to pay off all the tickets he must get for driving around with that thing).

 

The city appears largely abandoned, as has been pointed out time and again. Did the military set up here because these were apparently the only idiots in the city to completely fail to observe what was going on around them and get out of town? "Guess who drew the short straw, Moyers? Looks like you get moron babysitting duty, haw haw!!"

Oh, and zombies or not, neither Travis nor Maddie seemed to even notice Chris and Alicia were gone a good part of the day, especially considering the army just made off with Nick.

 

Honestly, would you have noticed if either one of those characters hadn't shown up at all last night either? :D

[LadyArcadia]

Apparently there is a "Walking Dead" maximum per episode limit. Due to budget, no doubt. So far out of a population of 4 million, we've only seen: zombie Gloria in the church, zombie Calvin in a water culvert, zombie homeless guy in the park (assumed - as it was just a guy shambling), neighbor Peter, the Dog whisperer, zombie neighbor Susan, zombie doughnut waitress "Kimberly" (who looked like zombie Rhianna), and zombie Library Patron #1. Listen show, I might "Fear" the walking dead if there were more than 7 walkers in 5 episodes.

They should have renamed it "Fear the Invisible Walking Dead".

 

 

This!  1,000x THIS!!!  I want to put this on a plaque and hand deliver it to the writers.  We should be nearly two weeks into it.  Where are the walkers?!  Where's the "FEAR"?  The best they came up with so far were the riots. That was riveting!  Then....ZZzzz...  Are we seriously that far along and have only seen 7 walkers?! In the middle of LA!!  Disgraceful.

 

And..the new guy. I guess his name is Strand. I don't get the love. At all. The moment he started speaking my face contorted into a "who farted?" look.  Is he auditioning for a commercial? A new stadium announcer?  Who TALKS like that?!  That wasn't even buttery creamy smooth, that was game show host levels of bad.  Shut UP new guy and stop trying to audition for something more grand. This is "Fear the Walking Dead."  Trust me, it ain't that great. 

[RedHackle]

One more point I forgot to make about Strand: he was not lying.  One, heroin junkies really kind of are the 'gold standard' of junkiedom (heh) and also, yes, absolutely goddamn right, you want a junkie or alcoholic with you when hell comes knocking.  We are amaaaaaazing problem solvers. We're complete crap as human beings, but man are we good in a crisis. It's kind of our thing.  Anything we can find the takes the focus off our real problem, and we practically develop super powers.  Good call, Strand.  Nick was starting to get on my last nerve but you're right - bring a junkie friend with you to the end of the world. (You don't want to be there if some small problem like running out of coffee or breaking a fingernail happens.  We don't cope so well with mundane reality.)

[Amelie06]

 

We're not even a full month into this thing and if this show is honestly saying United States Military are ready, right now to slaughter United States citizens, I do not buy it. 

While I agree that the way the military is being portrayed is awful, I do give the writers a little leeway. We all know how the military would most likely act in emergencies. But the dead rising to eat the living is so batshit crazy that I'm not convinced that soldiers could just fall back on their training and maintain calm. There would be a lot of implications for some people about this that would change the shape of their world, beyond the zombie conundrum. If you were religious, maybe zombies makes you believe that there can't possibly be God in existence. Or maybe you think it is the end of times and you just want to focus on getting right before the Messiah returns. This may cause the agnostics and atheists to become believers. None of this has been portrayed in the show. But I could see with this unprecedented species ending event going on, that the few people left in the military wouldn't be acting like they would during the war in Afghanistan or any other more normal military engagement. 

 

I don't have a huge problem with Alicia and Chris hooking up. Let me be clear. I don't want to see it. I don't. But I'm not opposed to it in theory. They aren't related. They didn't even grow up together. In the normal run of things it would be a bit weird. But in this situation, he will be one of few boys around her own age that she isn't related to or isn't a rotting corpse. I'm not mad if Alicia decides to get down with the get down. 

 

Grizelda was acting super creepy before she died. Was she calling Daniel the devil/demon? I couldn't tell. She certainly is in it up to her eyeballs in regards to his shady ass past. 

[cynic]

I realized a few minutes into this episode that I'm done. I'll probably read the comments next week to see how it turned out, but that's it for me. I thought I might like this show better than the mothership since I watch for the drama and tolerate the gore/zombies, but I don't find the drama here compelling at all. I can't stand any of these people. Have fun y'all.

[tennisgurl]

I am not at all surprised at how evil the military apparently is in this universe. "Evil authority guys with guns" is an easier to write enemy than zombies, I guess. They're easier for an audience to hate. The mothership does that too (humans have been a bigger threat to the heroes than walks for ages) but on that show, the ZA has been going for awhile, and it makes sense that people are giving into their darker natures, out of panic and fear, or out of a desire to get more power in a confused world. These guy, however, apparently went from 0-evil in about a week. 

 

Right now, the cartoon evil military is the worst part of the show for me. I enjoy a lot of other things about this show, but its silly bad guys are just annoying.

Edited September 28, 2015 by tennisgurl

[polyhymnia]

The one complaint I have is the way they portray the military. They use the premise of "just following orders" to justify their degrading attitude the writers have assigned this unit. Sorry, but one of the first things you learn in basic training is about lawful and unlawful orders and how not to follow the unlawful ones. Also, our military is not like the ones Mr. Salazar had experiences with. First of all, the US military is all volunteer, not thug-napped kids who have been brain washed to follow some doctrine. Second of all, those of us who have served took an oath to protect, not to destroy our own citizenry, so I don't like when apocalyptic writers portray the military as oppressive asses who just follow unlawful orders and mow down innocent civilians without question. 

 

I don't like the military portrayal either.  As in the giant military plan to just kill the civilians.  I think more of the soldiers would be like the kid who likes Ofelia.  I can see them getting more hostile towards civilians as this progressed, but right from the get-go? I liked that a few of them were just ready to abandon their posts, though.  And that except for Moyers they had a little bit of sympathy for Travis's inability to take the shot.

Ironically, though, it was the U.S. military/CIA/college of Americas that trained the soldiers in El Salvador during their civil war (who were fighting on behalf of the landowners because communism, etc.).  So Salazar would have reason not to trust the military and even not to trust the US military.  I didn't love that he became a torturer.  It didn't make sense with what he said about the war in previous episodes.  Doing bad things to survive, sure, but an actual torturer.  Eh.  Also, so much annoyance with TV's persistent insistence that torture works.  Yay!  Torture works, the nice young kid who would have told them everything anyway because they had a rapport built with him still says it under duress.  Whatever!!

I didn't hate the teens in the rich house.  I actually thought Alicia's new attitude on the bike was pretty funny.  I mean, it was a very stereotypical "this is why we can't have nice thing, teens!" but them reflecting on the dead family was sort of nice.

I thought Strand was a figment of crying neighbor's imagination, too, until it was obvious that Nick saw him.  His dialogue was pretty ridiculous but he totally delivered.  Same with Griselda.  It at least made sense that she was spouting nonsense because she was dying.  Liza is calm, cool, and collected.  She is the only one from the core family (setting aside the Salazars) that seems to really have what it takes.

No Country For Old Men pneumatic bolt weapons!!  I wonder how easy it is to find the air tanks, though.

 

ETA:  I watch this with my teen (who is fairly annoyed by Alicia and Chris but not so much by Nick except the grandpa clothes) and I turned to her at several points last night to say that FTWD really must not have much of a budget.  Especially the library scene.  That was cheap.

Edited September 28, 2015 by polyhymnia

[HalcyonDays]

Remember guys, not to discuss any Walking Dead spoilers in the Fear episode threads. Some people haven't caught up on TWD yet. However, if something about the zombies was learned in the previous 5 episodes of Fear, that is okay to discuss, since it occured on Fear itself.

 

I've spoiler-tagged some posts that are clear information about TWD.

 

If you want to discuss the zombies, etc, you can go to Clarks vs Camp Dinner Bell: Compariing FTWD and TWD 

or for some more detailed Zombie info, the Walkin Dead has this thread that focuses on the Walkers: Zombie Talk: Gruesome Gory and Grabby.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I don't have a huge problem with Travis being reluctant to accept that people aren't just sick. It's been 9 days; what's easier to believe--that death is no longer a permanent state and corpses are reanimating as mindless flesh eating beasts, or that people are suffering from some sort of horrible combination of airborne rabies and a necrotic bacterial infection? So, the whole military dick waving trial-by-fire adventure seemed, well, stupid.

I also don't accept that things would have deteriorated into sanctioned military mass murders and corrupt shithole internment camps with deeply rooted hierarchal complexities at this point in time. I think the trouble with this show is they had to go from zero to ZA in six episodes and so could not establish a consistent portrait of the time in between the shit being dispersed and it actually hitting the proverbial fan. It's a bit of a catch 22 because I wouldn't have wanted to watch three episodes of people watching news coverage about a strange virus. At the same time, Madison's acceptance of the new world and Travis' lack thereof both seem fundamentally screwy.

I think a LOST format that combined flashbacks with the present day would have been so much more effective.

 

The thing is that there has been empirical evidence, no doubt, of people not being harmed or even slowed by what would otherwise be fatal wounds. No known illness does that. At some point, one would think that Travis and the rest would accept the evidence of their own eyes. Or at least have some reaction to it. Part of the problem with the show is that they are so muted over seeing the infected do what is the impossible.

 

As for the military, I would have to say that despite so many soldiers being heroes, sometimes individual soldiers as well as the entire hierarchy have done some pretty shady things. I have no doubt that if the real world got in a situation where everyone who died turned into a flesh-craving monster who could turn other people into flesh-craving monsters, the military response to that would get pretty extreme pretty quickly.

 

There's approximately 7k people who die every day in the U.S. in the real world. Now imagine that those 7k people accelerate things by killing/turning at least one other person a day (a fairly conservative number), plus another 7k die of non-zombie causes and turn into zombies. Then on day 3, the 21k each turn someone, etc. By the time it got on people's radar, we'd be looking at a couple hundred thousand zombies, I'd bet. 

[morgankobi]

I thought I saw a looted flat screen on that truck.  ... Why would anyone take it? What TV show do they plan to watch?

Not this one, if they're looking for any info on their current situation.

 

I hope Mr. Crispy Shirt has only one rule if you want to be a part of his team: you have to dress the part.

[peach]

The military story would be a lot more believable if the citizens of this safe zone were a lot more worried/pissed off than just lone Ophelia.  The whole community seems about as worked up as Madison over being trapped in there with no information.  I guess there are a lot of people clutching coffee cups and staring out windows.  

 

I was interested in episodes 2 and 3 when they brought the topic of riots into the show, but then they immediately dropped it.

 

If the neighborhood was more confrontational, it would be a more believable scenario that the troops would be "us vs them" about it.

 

After all, this was just last year, without any undead roaming around or the collapse of society.

Edited September 28, 2015 by peach

[Raven1707]

 

 

Not that we'll get back to it, but I think it would be cool to have an update of the Twilight Zone classic "Time Enough At Last," wherein a bookish man lucks into surviving a nuke strike, makes his way to a library and relishes the notion of being able to spend an eternity reading...until he breaks his glasses. 

 

Ah, talk about a classic! "Time Enough At Last" and "Midnight Sun" are my absolute favorite episodes of The Twilight Zone. Not a coincidence that both center on an End-of-the-World scenario; I am drawn like a moth to a flame.

[nitrofishblue]

I have been watching this show since there isn't much else on at that time that is bearable. Waiting for the new fall shows to arrive. I view the show as comedy with lots of stupidity thrown in for good measure. For a lead character Travis is a huge snooze fest. I have been unable to give a d*** about any of them. Sure no Daryl in this show.

[featherhead]

I like this show. It's keeping my interest until TWD returns.

Good news is that I think Travis finally gets it! The soldier held out a lot longer than I thought he would.

[peach]

I want the dark haired soldier to survive and tag along with the main characters. He was nice eye candy and a decent actor, and lord knows someone in that group is going to have to know how to use weapons.

 

Yes, I vote for keeping him.  He sorta reminds me of young George Clooney.  That would make season 2 much more watchable. 

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2373989/?ref_=nv_sr_1

[raven]

 

Part of the problem with the show is that they are so muted over seeing the infected do what is the impossible.

All these people know is that dead is dead, dead is permanent.  Therefore to them what they're seeing is not the dead walking; when they're more in the front lines, like the soldiers, then they'll have to accept it.  Madison had the most violent interacton and though she may believe now, at first it's easy to convince herself that he was sick, not dead, once it's past. Or maybe she just has an easier time killing people then Travis does, not that big a shock IMO.   When she and Travis see Susan through the trellis, Susan appears alive; her eyes are bright, she has expression and is reaching out.  She appears sentient.  Sure Liza accepted it right away; she was on the lines and saw clear medical evidence.

 

So Travis doesn't surprise me, and neither does the family's complacency.  They're waiting for someone to tell them what to do, where to go, or that it's over. They got jostled with Nick being taken and yeah, a LOT of parents I know wouldn't care at all about their "captor" being tortured if it means they'll find out where his fellow captors took their kid.  To me it's interesting to see these pieces of the characters come out.   It hasn't been that long, if they run out of food or water, we'd see a difference I think.  Most of them are in their own homes, they feel protected, whatever.  As soon as the necessities and comforts go, it's over. 

 

 

Is he auditioning for a commercial? A new stadium announcer?  Who TALKS like that?!

 

LOL yeah.  He can play mind games with Nick all he wants, Nick can take it.  I don't like bullies and he was bullying Doug (and enjoying it), who is so obviously doomed.  But his speechifying was a bit much.   I am interested to see him teamed with Nick though.

 

 

I think both Alicia and Chris are extremely angry kids who have no control over their lives and who's parents never listen to them. That is a recipe for a teen acting out.

True, they bugged me but this point is well taken.  No one is watching them, Alicia must be thinking "it's the end of the world and Mom's STILL all Nick, Nick, Nick". Chris's mother left.   The scene showed how quickly some can move to acceptance that these people aren't coming back, their stuff is fair game.

 

It's not surprising that the world is ending with a whimper rather than a bang.  I get how it's not interesting for some to watch though.  I wonder where they'll go with second season, it would just be WD with new characters.  It's a relief to be out of the woods though. 

[Ripley68]

Am I the only one who thought that emo teenage boy said that his dad had an affair with Madison?

[ToniG]

Am I the only one who thought that emo teenage boy said that his dad had an affair with Madison?

Chris is Travis' son, and Travis is involved with Maddie. Not sure if there was another emo teenage boy, I was reading the forums while the show was on. It's the only way I can make it through.