S01.E03: The Dog

[maczero]

Chris sucks but I think Alicia is a psycho for intentionally elbowing him in the fucking face after he helped save her life. She didn't even apologize.

I felt for Chris.  He's trying to help someone and he gets an elbow to the nose for it.  

 

I'm also curious how Susan managed to get out of the house so quickly and track down Alisha in the garden maze -- I thought walkers moved kind of slow.

 

Plot!  The tracking down part I believe - the really fresh zombies can have some "live" behaviors - I remember Morgan's wife trying the doorknob way back in Ep 1.  So there might not be so much mindless shuffling like in the TWD universe. 

I imagine the newly turned still have memories of their old life and will often repeat behaviors associated with their former life.  Morgan's wife returning the home she stayed in before she died supports this.  I'm guessing Susan spent a lot of time in her garden and went there out of instinct.  She just happened to run into Alicia who got lost in the maze.

 

Greetings all. I come seeking refuge from the AMC forum, the new format is hard to navigate from my phone. I like the Salazar family, especially Daniel.Madison can take her Monopoly set and run off to the desert with her kids...she annoys me. Travis has the mindset of TWD's Hershel in the first half of Season 2 when it comes to the dead but I love his truck. Hoping for Tobias to make an appearance next week.

Madison's catching a lot of heat over the Monopoly game but a lot of preparedness experts say playing games during a stressful situation is a good distraction for children.  Granted they're talking about small children, but I say it's still a good call.  Besides it was a black out and they were waiting for Travis, it was a good way to kill time and bond as a family.  

 

I might be reading too much into things, but I thought the long look between the two men was supposed to imply that the neighbor also had bloody curtains or other zombie-stained items to throw away. However, I was surprised that both men assumed trash would just be collected like normal amidst the riots and blackouts. 

Even if there is no trash pick up, I wouldn't want a trash can with a brain splattered carpet right next to the house.  The smell and flies would be enough reason to get it a way from the house.  Although, burying the carpet along with the body would've been a smarter idea. 

 

You know what I found odd? It's supposed to be a nice neighborhood, right? Madison's house is very open and exposed, but when Nick was looking to break into a house for pills, both it and the one next to it had security bars on all the windows. Nice ones, yes, but still - they didn't seem like they would be on the same street.

What's so odd about that?  Everyone has different views on security and aesthetics.  I have bars on my patio door.  Most of my neighbors don't.  A lot of them feel security bars are ugly and convey an image that the neighborhood's not safe.  My opinion is that my security is more important than my house's curb appeal.

[magdalene]

I read somewhere - here? - that there is no awareness of any zombie mythology in this universe up to the point when it's zombie apocalypse time.  This is how I have been trying to make sense of why characters like Travis for example are so utterly naive and clueless.

 

Has it ever been explained on the other show what may have caused the zombie apocalypse? Personally my knee jerk reaction is to blame the government, ha.

[MsNewsradio]

I read somewhere - here? - that there is no awareness of any zombie mythology in this universe up to the point when it's zombie apocalypse time.  This is how I have been trying to make sense of why characters like Travis for example are so utterly naive and clueless.

 

Has it ever been explained on the other show what may have caused the zombie apocalypse? Personally my knee jerk reaction is to blame the government, ha.

 

That's correct - neither this show nor TWD have awareness of any zombie mythology, which is also why the term 'zombie' is never utilized on either show.

[grumpypanda]

I just can't with this show. Look, I understand how the Horror genre works - you have to have people making illogical and/or stupid decisions to: give the walkers something to eat, cause drama by separating the family members, go on mini-quests to increase tension, etc. But I was hoping that with TWD under their belts, the powers that be would fix some of those tired tropes and introduce something... I dunno, different?

I don't think I can continue with a family that includes Madison who seems to have Asperger's and doesn't react to anything, or smelly, grease stained Nick who chews scenery like he chews Oxy, and clueless/checked-out/angsy Alicia...I'd be walking to the desert myself in the dead of night.

As has been said, why are they not glued to the TV or the radio to help them know what to do? No, let's play a boardgame. Alicia's got a damn iPhone, why aren't they on the internet looking for safe places to go? Maybe the roads to the desert are overrun by BurningMan zombies! They could at least be reading Reddit for first person accounts with the undead. No, she's probably listening to K-Pop and continuously texting her un-dead boyfriend. Why didn't the showrunners have a few scenes with radio or TV on in the background? It could help to build the tension, fill in some of the backstory for the viewers and move the story along a bit faster.

If this show is continuing on to a 2nd season, please kill off most of the existing cast, build a whole new cast for season 2 with a couple of the originals there to tie the story together... then kill the remaining v1.0 characters.

Yes to all of this! The electricity was still working while they were playing Monopoly by candlelight so I don't get why they weren't watching tv or listening to the radio trying to get more information. The ZA is still in the very early stages so I find it hard to believe that all outside communication has ceased already.

I think it could have been interesting to see some news footage of what was going on around the world. I imagine Madison's reaction to seeing the collapse of society on tv would be "shit happens, anyone up for a game of Yahtzee?"

[rab01]

Ah, refresh my memory here...Amy was bitten and so was Jim. As far as I can recall, they were the only two "infected."

 

Yup, you're totally right.

That said, how do you think the neighbor in this show got it? Coughing one minute and zombie the next doesn't seem quite like the bite followed by enervating fever that we've seen so often ...

Edited September 16, 2015 by rab01

[CletusMusashi]

I agree that board games are a good distraction.

But... is this really a situation that calls for distraction?

What'll they do if the house catches on fire, break out "Hungry Hungry Hippo?"

[Bec]

Hey, don't knock Nick's lack of basic hygiene. For all we know, Nick has figured out that making yourself smell like death is the way to make yourself less attractive to the zombies.

[Yemayah]

I'm late to this party, but I couldn't remember my sign-ins and forget where I wrote them down..

 

Whether or not any of the characters in the FTWD universe would have a concept of Zombies does not really address the dissonance some of us are experiencing about a character’s actions, responses and choices (or lack thereof) relative to their individual and/or collective experiences as events are unfolding.  From the very beginning, through all 3 episodes, the whole of FTWD is not tracking for me, be it a result of some combination of acting, directing, writing, staging or casting choices. 

These characters are so impenetrable that I cannot empathize or even care about them; nor relate to how the characters are processing what they see and feel. The actors are not doing a good job of conveying the conscious/unconscious mix of impending dread, mounting fear, vulnerability, confusion, frustration and disorientation that occurs when one’s humanity and sense of normalcy/order is being both assaulted and challenged by the incomprehensible, a mix that might explain some questionable behaviors or choices- be they dumb, bad or illogical.

 

Compare with NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD (1968):  The characters in this movie know nothing of zombies/walking dead (and the audience back then had no preconceived notions of Zs/WD either). The characters don’t know what/why/how, but they react out of fear, confusion, survival instinct and ‘reality’ as they observe it unfold and from which they try to escape.  As horror and tension build with the knowledge of some that they are in a deathtrap, they are further motivated by suspicion, prejudice, hoarding, territoriality and protecting-one's-own and. in doing so. reveal aspects of their 'normal times' character. Of note, the actors deftly establish character and function as an ensemble from the get-go, and the character dynamics are consistently realistic.  Forget not having a concept of zombies: FTWD characters are not reacting realistically-IMO- to the real-time events as they are unfolding in their faces.

 

The NOTLD characters had arrived at the house confused and frightened, having run for their lives from hordes of crazed ‘”people” or “those things” turning over cars, chasing them, biting. Recall Ben’s (Duane Jones) monologue about what he experienced before barely making it to that house. Barbra, the traumatized woman, in shock, recalling the terrifying events in the cemetery and her escape. The mother’s fear and confusion about her sick daughter, who was bitten during their escape, and her alarm when Ben says to her: “..who knows what kind of diseases they have..”  Later, they find a TV and listen to a news bulletin where the newscaster reports-incredulous!- that there are reports of “people eating other people" and reports of "the dead coming back to life!" 

 

FTWD actors have no chemistry; there is no sense of an ensemble effort; the acting/choices are ‘off’; the characters are dumbed-down and slow-witted (writer/director fault). We can't know if this is a result of shock because we don't know the baseline.  I’m never certain about passage of time, the spatial layout of places, and events; I cannot step back and see the larger picture/scale/scope, a result of having only the POV of these few characters.

 

For myself, I feel there is a gaping hole in the storytelling by not opening the series with a teaser suggesting the ground zero of the plague virus and/or of Patient(s) Zero, even if the origin of the virus itself cannot be known. What were the initial symptoms and duration to death? For example (if they must have a junkie for a character), did the virus come to LA via some shipment of really ‘bad sh@#’ or bad food? Another option would have been to have the opening few episodes offer the POV of different families or individuals in different places. I think the hospital where Mrs Salazar was being taken for her injured foot should have been one of those places where we see through the eyes of the medical staff, especially if said Patient(s) Zero collapsed in the ER. Perhaps the POV from a police or military base. Maybe even of the passengers/crew on that jet.  What do folks think about the lack of storytelling via unrelated POVs (folks who later might come together as a group) or lack of teaser/prologue that might suggest origin of the plague?

[txhorns79]

Compare with NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD (1968):  The characters in this movie know nothing of zombies/walking dead (and the audience back then had no preconceived notions of Zs/WD either).

 

Night of the Living Dead was certainly an important step in the zombie genre, but zombie movies and fiction existed well before that movie was released.  In terms of the episode, there are aspects I don't like, but I also give them a break because I have no idea how I would act in that situation.  If I saw a love one zombified, I'm sure I would probably ponder and wait way too long before killing them, or otherwise make bad choices out of panic or desperation.  

 

I would agree though that I don't like the characterization of Travis.  I think the show is so invested in making Madison the "strong" one, that they aren't sure how to handle Travis.  I mean, I look at the situation with Susan.  The fact that she was at the fence all night reaching for him and his kids so she could eat them should tell him that she isn't the loving neighbor he knows, and it's beyond her just being sick.     

[NurseGiGi]

Well, on rewatch I found that I liked the episode less than I did the first time around.  I think the main reason I didn't like it as much is I know if I had been in that truck watching that hospital scene unfold I would have had the screaming meemies.  Then seeing my neighbor eating the dog would have been the nail in my coffin. I understand people reacting in different ways, which is why I've given the show some slack.  But one, or more, should be crying in a closet after seeing the neighbor eat a dog and then get his head blown off.

 

I'll be the person screaming and running outside headlong into a herd of walkers in the event of a real ZA.

Edited September 16, 2015 by NurseGiGi

[queenanne]

Compare with NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD (1968):  The characters in this movie know nothing of zombies/walking dead (and the audience back then had no preconceived notions of Zs/WD either). The characters don’t know what/why/how, but they react out of fear, confusion, survival instinct and ‘reality’ as they observe it unfold and from which they try to escape.  As horror and tension build with the knowledge of some that they are in a deathtrap, they are further motivated by suspicion, prejudice, hoarding, territoriality and protecting-one's-own and. in doing so. reveal aspects of their 'normal times' character. Of note, the actors deftly establish character and function as an ensemble from the get-go, and the character dynamics are consistently realistic.  Forget not having a concept of zombies: FTWD characters are not reacting realistically-IMO- to the real-time events as they are unfolding in their faces.

 

Amen.  I would also argue that (a) we're not in 1968 anymore; and (b), I have to admit I'm no horror expert, but judging by the tropes of the genre for the likes of vampires and werewolves, there should be plenty, plenty of mythological universe-borne emendations and hybrid iterations of Hammer-era conceptions of "zombies".  Admittedly the one that everyone knows would be "Braaaaaaaains!", but I have to feel there are other variations on the principle.  For the characters in the twenty-teens to have heard nothing of them, absolutely nothing... that doesn't sit right with me.  

 

I can understand the simultaneous desire not to get hung up in lore and conventions, or to have a Zombieland type situation with snark; but this goes too, too far in the other direction.  don't zombies even source from the likes of vodoun, ultimately?

[Sakura12]

I get them not knowing about zombies, but these people live in LA, don't they have any kind of emergency plan for earthquakes or something? Or is go to the desert? Do they have a fully stocked underground bunker out there or something, is that why they are not worried about having food and water?

 

I live in a suburb of Chicago and my parents told me to always have canned food in the house, have blankets, flashlights, batteries, tools and water in your car. Always keep your tank half full. And all we pretty much get are blizzards and tornado warnings. 

Edited September 16, 2015 by Sakura12

[Bad Example]

Why were the English subtitles so freakin tiny?! That was irritating.

 

 

Yes, it was.  I didn't understand why they had to  make the print so small.

 

I think they were just giving us a concrete and easily accessible problem to distract us around in the hope that we would overlook everything that's a problem if you think about it for more than a second.  "Oh, I didn't notice x, y, and z because I was too busy trying to read that stupid-small caption."

 

 

  Although, burying the carpet along with the body would've been a smarter idea. 

 

 

Considering a lot of what we've seen so far, something being a "smarter idea" immediately negates it.  

Except the Monopoly game.  Not bothered by that.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Bad Example

[LVmom]

I presume we are supposed to come to the conclusion that these are people jaded by media and technology. Same as people shrugged off the Florida "bath salt zombies", as in that's some random drug, happened in Florida, not here, I've got a mortgage to pay and a sick mom, not really worried about it.

 

My only problem with this, is if my next door neighbor had ingested said bath salts and was munching on a dog, I'd be a little less lollygaggy and a lot more get the fuck out of here. I like the improvements made each week but they are tiny and slow for my taste.

[ChipBach]

I presume we are supposed to come to the conclusion that these are people jaded by media and technology. Same as people shrugged off the Florida "bath salt zombies", as in that's some random drug, happened in Florida, not here, I've got a mortgage to pay and a sick mom, not really worried about it.

 

My only problem with this, is if my next door neighbor had ingested said bath salts and was munching on a dog, I'd be a little less lollygaggy and a lot more get the fuck out of here. I like the improvements made each week but they are tiny and slow for my taste.

 

Not sure I'd take a family who is unprepared for any type of outdoor survivalist adventure to the desert.  Seems to be a pretty brutal environment to try to "get to know on the run".  I wonder if all the active volcanos have already been filled?

[HighMaintenance]

I'm late to this party, but I couldn't remember my sign-ins and forget where I wrote them down..

 

Whether or not any of the characters in the FTWD universe would have a concept of Zombies does not really address the dissonance some of us are experiencing about a character’s actions, responses and choices (or lack thereof) relative to their individual and/or collective experiences as events are unfolding.  From the very beginning, through all 3 episodes, the whole of FTWD is not tracking for me, be it a result of some combination of acting, directing, writing, staging or casting choices. 

These characters are so impenetrable that I cannot empathize or even care about them; nor relate to how the characters are processing what they see and feel. The actors are not doing a good job of conveying the conscious/unconscious mix of impending dread, mounting fear, vulnerability, confusion, frustration and disorientation that occurs when one’s humanity and sense of normalcy/order is being both assaulted and challenged by the incomprehensible, a mix that might explain some questionable behaviors or choices- be they dumb, bad or illogical.

 

Compare with NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD (1968):  The characters in this movie know nothing of zombies/walking dead (and the audience back then had no preconceived notions of Zs/WD either). The characters don’t know what/why/how, but they react out of fear, confusion, survival instinct and ‘reality’ as they observe it unfold and from which they try to escape.  As horror and tension build with the knowledge of some that they are in a deathtrap, they are further motivated by suspicion, prejudice, hoarding, territoriality and protecting-one's-own and. in doing so. reveal aspects of their 'normal times' character. Of note, the actors deftly establish character and function as an ensemble from the get-go, and the character dynamics are consistently realistic.  Forget not having a concept of zombies: FTWD characters are not reacting realistically-IMO- to the real-time events as they are unfolding in their faces.

 

The NOTLD characters had arrived at the house confused and frightened, having run for their lives from hordes of crazed ‘”people” or “those things” turning over cars, chasing them, biting. Recall Ben’s (Duane Jones) monologue about what he experienced before barely making it to that house. Barbra, the traumatized woman, in shock, recalling the terrifying events in the cemetery and her escape. The mother’s fear and confusion about her sick daughter, who was bitten during their escape, and her alarm when Ben says to her: “..who knows what kind of diseases they have..”  Later, they find a TV and listen to a news bulletin where the newscaster reports-incredulous!- that there are reports of “people eating other people" and reports of "the dead coming back to life!" 

 

FTWD actors have no chemistry; there is no sense of an ensemble effort; the acting/choices are ‘off’; the characters are dumbed-down and slow-witted (writer/director fault). We can't know if this is a result of shock because we don't know the baseline.  I’m never certain about passage of time, the spatial layout of places, and events; I cannot step back and see the larger picture/scale/scope, a result of having only the POV of these few characters.

 

For myself, I feel there is a gaping hole in the storytelling by not opening the series with a teaser suggesting the ground zero of the plague virus and/or of Patient(s) Zero, even if the origin of the virus itself cannot be known. What were the initial symptoms and duration to death? For example (if they must have a junkie for a character), did the virus come to LA via some shipment of really ‘bad sh@#’ or bad food? Another option would have been to have the opening few episodes offer the POV of different families or individuals in different places. I think the hospital where Mrs Salazar was being taken for her injured foot should have been one of those places where we see through the eyes of the medical staff, especially if said Patient(s) Zero collapsed in the ER. Perhaps the POV from a police or military base. Maybe even of the passengers/crew on that jet.  What do folks think about the lack of storytelling via unrelated POVs (folks who later might come together as a group) or lack of teaser/prologue that might suggest origin of the plague?

Very well said!  These characters are just too one dimensional (not even complex enough for 2 dimension IMO).  I'll go ahead and say it, but this episode's writing and direction was illogical and lent nothing to the story other than to reunite the cast into one location. I'm not impressed by any of these actor's abilities to convey any semblance of "horror" to the audience.  It's like watching a bad community theatre group.  The story is moving at a painfully glacial pace - it's almost like watching a badly acted/written daytime soap opera.

 

I also think the story's treatment could have benefited from jumping between different groups/scenes to fill out the story - the hospital, the streets of LA, the suburban neighborhoods, the police stations, the military's stronghold.  But I also get the feeling that this production was done on a scant budget.

[polyhymnia]

I think uneven characterization may continue to plague this show.  Last week, Madison is making all the dumb decisions (as far as survival) in the school but now she seems to be taking this seriously (getting a weapon, worrying about dispatching Susan, worrying about her own imminent demise, trying to insist they leave RIGHT NOW) and Travis, who had been doing at least some sensible stuff, is now Mr. Pacifist Who Hates Guns but inexplicably trusts the military.  Next week maybe only Alicia will have any sense.  It seems like their opinions and actions will change as dictated by plot needs, rather than them having an inherent character/personality/whatever.

 

Mr. Salazar has been the most even character so far.  Other than maybe Tobias.  I would think he'd be jonesing to take the truck, his wife and daughter, and get the heck out of the suburbs before the military noticed.

 

I assumed we were getting references to the brutal civil war in El Salvador.  I can truly believe that the begining of the Zombie Apocalypse was not as bad as the things he saw or did in El Salvador .

 We didn't always have clean hands either, which I assumed was why he made the comment at the end, when he saw the military roll in.  

The age he (Salazar) is at is the age of my IRL friend from El Salvador who saw some of his family murdered and had some of his extended family disappear before he left the country as a very young teen/tween.  He was separated from his mother and remaining sisters for years.  He came to the US via Honduras (I think he had aunts living in Florida).  IIRC people who didn't get out pretty close to the beginning were very much trapped there.  It will be interesting if they make Salazar have a connection with MS-13 (I hope not, that would be too stereotypical, but it did originate in LA) or a former soldier for either side.  Unfortunately they will probably be making it up as they go along.

[Cthulhudrew]

This episode put me to sleep. Literally.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Cthulhudrew

[PrincessEnnui]

Well, they are going to The Desert. So.

 

I'd just like to dispel this myth for the sake of my own sanity. If you are going to the desert, its best to cover up. Going to the desert means lots of exposure, including primarily the sun, the wind, and sand. If you don't want to deal with sunburn, you need to cover up. It you don't want to be sandblasted, cover up. You may also need that material to serve as bandage/cover later as well. Wear something light and breathable, but something that covers you. Regardless, even though its hot during the day, the temperature drops sharply at night. No good trying to be cool during the day, only to freeze at night.

 

Its the desert--no, no it isn't. Its to show skin. That didn't fly in Final Fantasy XII and it don't fly here.

[maczero]

I agree that board games are a good distraction.

But... is this really a situation that calls for distraction?

What'll they do if the house catches on fire, break out "Hungry Hungry Hippo?"

Like I said, most preparedness experts say a game, a deck of cards or a book is a good idea to have during a disaster situation.  You're not going to get so engrossed in these activities that you're not going to hear someone trying to break into your house or notice that your house is on fire.  In fact, it was clear that they were alert and mindful of outside noises while playing the game.   Now I will concede that it was dumb not to have a radio turned on to get information.

 

Not sure I'd take a family who is unprepared for any type of outdoor survivalist adventure to the desert.  Seems to be a pretty brutal environment to try to "get to know on the run".  I wonder if all the active volcanos have already been filled?

I don't think they're looking it at as a survival situation yet but more as camping in the desert for a few days.  Most people can handle that.  It's when you run out of your food and water, is when I'd say it becomes a survival situation.

[GreyBunny]

I can accept that they don't have zombie lore for either Romero or Haitian zombies and mindless, relentlessly shambling undead that want to eat living bodies is new to them.  What irks me is that they should still have films like Halloween, Friday the 13th, and other horror fare and yet they're acting like they've never seen ANY horror film and don't have a grip on Basic Horror Film Survival 101.  Is Barney the only TV show/movie they've ever watched?

[walnutqueen]

I get them not knowing about zombies, but these people live in LA, don't they have any kind of emergency plan for earthquakes or something? Or is go to the desert? Do they have a fully stocked underground bunker out there or something, is that why they are not worried about having food and water?

 

I live in a suburb of Chicago and my parents told me to always have canned food in the house, have blankets, flashlights, batteries, tools and water in your car. Always keep your tank half full. And all we pretty much get are blizzards and tornado warnings. 

 

30+ years of living just south of L.A.; most of those working for a City with constant "Emergency Preparedness" training & drills.  Not a single stockpile or worry about earthquakes, along with the majority of our general populace.  Only one earthquake in all those years even rattled the windows, so ...  we just don't give a shit, I guess.   :-)

[tessa]

I made mention to my son, who thinks this is getting better every week but not near the show TWD is, that many thought here and on another forum that the grid going down was a good visual effect. He responded that it was the one thing that really bugged him. His thoughts - the walking dead are still in their infancy - day 1,2, yes there was a riot - but the walking dead are no where at the capacity to disable the power like was shown and he's right - that was premature.

[Raven1707]

Yup, you're totally right.

That said, how do you think the neighbor in this show got it? Coughing one minute and zombie the next doesn't seem quite like the bite followed by enervating fever that we've seen so often ...

 

For the sake of argument, I'm going with the theory that the zombie virus is something like "The Great Influenza" of 1918, which was fully capable of killing young healthy people within the course of a day, and killed untold millions of people worldwide. In a zombie world, if those people died and turned, and then went on to bite others, a secondary method of transmission could be established. The people who might be considered immune because they survived the initial infection or simply never became ill in the first place could still be carriers. And when those people died, even of natural causes, the virus could reanimate them.

 

["The Great Influenza" is a classic non-fiction account of the 1918 pandemic, written by John M. Barry.]

[ghoulina]

Madison's catching a lot of heat over the Monopoly game but a lot of preparedness experts say playing games during a stressful situation is a good distraction for children.  Granted they're talking about small children, but I say it's still a good call.  Besides it was a black out and they were waiting for Travis, it was a good way to kill time and bond as a family.

 

I didn't have a problem with the game either. They had to wait around, no electricity, it's a good distraction. At any age. 

 

What's so odd about that?  Everyone has different views on security and aesthetics.  I have bars on my patio door.  Most of my neighbors don't.  A lot of them feel security bars are ugly and convey an image that the neighborhood's not safe.  My opinion is that my security is more important than my house's curb appeal.

 

Agree. We have those heavy, security screen doors on our house. Our neighborhood isn't necessarily nice, but I didn't think Madison's was all that either. Just run of the mill. And hey, people might be more likely to loot the nice neighborhoods during a ZA, so secure away!

[maystone]

I think most of us have at one point or another heard about someone else’s dangerous or traumatic experience and thought they handled it wrong.   I know I’ve found myself thinking, “Oh, come on! I would’ve …” or “Please. They should have just …” as almost a knee-jerk reaction before actually trying to put myself in their place.

 

Aside from this being about zombies, the point is that this is an unprecedented event. Nothing like this has ever happened before in recorded history. There is no advanced warning system; there is no How To survival guide. Everyone in this fictional universe is trying to come to terms with something for which they have had no prior experience. None. Zilch.

 

But let’s say that they did. That Kirkland decided that the mythology of zombies existed in the WD universe as it does in ours. Do you still think that everyone would be at the same stage of acceptance or action when it really did hit the fan? I give you the case of the Florida man who was observed eating the face off of his victim, and the case of another Florida man who was also observed chowing down on someone's face. In neither case did the observer try to take out the Florida man with a bat or a katana or gun. In one case the observer actually did yell at the man to stop what he was doing. As if, you know, he wasn't actually dealing with a zombie even though zombies are rampant in current pop cult. Because we're just not wired that way. Not most of us, anyway. We look for the mundane explanation rather than leaping to the extreme.

 

In all openness and fairness, I have to admit that I was caught up in an extreme circumstance once - and I did not react at all as I thought I would have. Or should have. Live and learn. And while it frustrates me that some of the characters in FTWD are not catching on as soon as I think they should, I don't for a minute believe that those reactions (or lack of reaction) are unbelievable or poorly written for them.

[rab01]

For the sake of argument, I'm going with the theory that the zombie virus is something like "The Great Influenza" of 1918, which was fully capable of killing young healthy people within the course of a day, and killed untold millions of people worldwide. In a zombie world, if those people died and turned, and then went on to bite others, a secondary method of transmission could be established. The people who might be considered immune because they survived the initial infection or simply never became ill in the first place could still be carriers. And when those people died, even of natural causes, the virus could reanimate them.

 

["The Great Influenza" is a classic non-fiction account of the 1918 pandemic, written by John M. Barry.]

I agree completely. And to go back to my original thought on this, we have no idea how people are going to die on this show. Anyone the characters meet could be a zombie by the next morning. It would be a while before that stops happening ... and that's probably what brought civilization down.

 

I don't mind some of the *atypical* reactions we see on this show ... but I want some of the characters to do really smart things and others to scream in terror and others to have weeping hysterics.  In other words, I want to see a gamut of emotions. All of these people are reacting in similarly muted ways.  Also, I want to spend less time on close ups of stone-face while she tries to suggest a human emotion through her immobile skin.  

[BetyBee]

I feel like the dog is significant, but I'm not sure why.  The dog in the Jack London story lived and his human died, so I'm confused.  I try to be charitable about the stupid things these people do because I realize they haven't been watching 5 seasons of TWD, so there's that.  And it's common in horror flicks for the characters to do foolish things, but these people are beyond the pale.  I really want to root for someone, but after 3 episodes, I'm still not there.  I hated when Madison just stared when Liza tried to make nice with her.  And then came up with that ridiculous line about how it would break Travis to have to kill her.  Well, I bet it would break Travis to have to kill the mother of his child too!  He even said something about having 2 wives in the house.  Such an odd comment.  Hmmm - maybe I'm rooting for Liza.  Which probably means she's toast next episode.  I think the writers want us to find the Clark family completely amazing and I just don't.  I am fairly interested in the Salazars, but I think it will break the barber to have to put down his own wife and that seems inevitable.  

 

I do think the Monopoly game informed us how close the Clarks once were and that Mr. Clark probably died in an accident while they were all playing Monopoly and waiting for him to come home.  That scene was okay.  I also thought that when Patrick embraced Susan and she was killed, the way she fell was almost as if she was returning his embrace.  That was well done and so very sad.  Also sad to think of that little girl who waved to Nick being alone in her house. Someone upthread mentioned how sad to think of all the vulnerable people including children and babies in the hospital. The military is terrifying and I do believe we are well set up for next week for our group of 9 (probably soon to be 8) to begin working together to get free of the military.  I hope Tobias works his way to their house and helps them to escape.    I'm hanging in here and hoping things improve.  

[Cthulhudrew]

The whole "no zombies" thing is such a silly conceit that doesn't really add anything to the world these characters live in. I've seen people argue that Kirkman wanted his world to be set in the same world as Romero's Night of the Living Dead, where the word isn't mentioned* as if that is an excuse for it. Yet the word is used in the sequels to NOTLD, so clearly even in Romero's world it's a "known" thing. 

 

I've also seen Kirkman state that they didn't want to use the term because it draws to many parallels to existing zombie movies, and that he wanted the people in his world to see this as a new thing, particularly vis a vis shooting them in the head as a way to kill them. Which, again, seems like a really silly conceit; just because we- yes, you out there- are familiar with zombies from pop culture doesn't mean that they would be any less terrifying or hard to conceptually come to terms with if they were to suddenly show up outside our doors. And just because we "know" that you have to shoot them in the head, doesn't mean it would somehow lessen the threat of them. (If anything, its far more unbelievable that so many characters in TWD/FTWD/Zombie Movies are able to pull off these remarkable headshots off the cuff and often while in motion. The reality is far, far different.)

 

*I've never seen Kirkman state this to be the case directly, though I'm far from a scholar when it comes to his interviews.

[raven]

 

And while it frustrates me that some of the characters in FTWD are not catching on as soon as I think they should, I don't for a minute believe that those reactions (or lack of reaction) are unbelievable or poorly written for them.

I don't either.  We know Kirkman and others have said the zombies are incidental, it's how the living treat each other and I think this will be our next focus.  In World War Z (the book) there are lot of different stories, different reactions; alot easier to show & flesh out in a novel rather than six hours of TV, sure.  So maybe FTWD is trying to show too much in a small span of time, but I think the concentration is how quickly everything breaks down.   People do act stupidly and refuse to see what's staring them right in the face.  So Travis not believing it's dead people walking is OK by me for now.  Sure, he was organized and active, but he was thinking of pulling his family together, now he expects the cavalry to arrive.  Seeing his neighbor eat the poor dog - well we know there are people who are cannibals now.  He's thinking he doesn't know what the infection does to your brain.  Same thing with Calvin;  I've heard stories that people on certain drugs don't feel things and that's the extent of my experience with that.

 

I liked that Madison went back to warn Patrick.  Remember though she wouldn't let Alicia run out and help the neighbor.  Different at night when you're protecting your family I guess.  Still I think it's too soon for people to stop caring about each other.  Madison bashed the principal's head in because Tobias's life was in danger, so we know she can get it done.  Mr. Salazar didn't jump to "dead people walking"; he saw the threat and took it out.  Travis may also use lethal force if he feels his kids are threatened.   Alicia panicked when her life was in danger and was probably toast if not for Chris.  All of these reactions are understandable to me. 

 

I'm curious to see how the government attempts to regain but ultimately loses control.  Are those who are supposed to be cleaning up the mess dying, abandoning their responsibilities, both?   If everyone's infected, well I don't know how many people die every day all over the world, but I imagine that's a LOT of bodies getting up and running around, freaking out probably more than half of those who aren't, so making more dead bodies, etc etc.

Edited September 17, 2015 by raven

[Ripley68]

I liked the "return to normalcy" of the monopoly game. Something I would do to distract kids while waiting.  I would have liked to see some of the packing, and also feel a radio going in the background is much needed.

 

I agree, someone really needs to lose it.  Yes, step-brother did throw up, but someone should be screaming "what the hell is going on?!?"  No  matter how stoic you are, this shit will freak you out!  I love how ex-wife is all on board and in rescue mode, "you will stay right here with me." 

 

I like that they are stuck in the city. We had one group already roaming the wilderness, I want to see someone navigate a heavily populated area.  I grew up in California (and still have family there), we always had an emergency radio (though dad was a fireman), but don't remember an emergency plan for earthquakes.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Stopping to think about everything from The Dog, I think the thing that still bugs me the most is the dog allowing itself to be caught (& eaten) - thanks to the plot device it served to fulfill. 

 

It just should not have happened.  Because first of all, with the blood on it - and the fact it was trying to get in their 'back' patio door - it knew to avoid the zombies, because they would do bad things to it.  Even if the dog doesn't successfully attack the zombie (jump on it and knock it down, at the very least), it should have been easily able to escape out the open door and ran out into the neighborhood.  A fresh WD-universe zombie is a little quicker than a rotted one, but not quick enough for a healthy dog to not be able to evade and run away from.  It wasn't like it was a very tight, cramped space the dog was backed into.  In real world or fantasyland, its just not believable.

 

That dog didn't have to die (not like that, anyways).  It ended up more of a bigger plot hole more than a plot point, IMO.

[lawless]

The failure to try TV or the radio, or to frantically discuss what's going on, is bugging me too. But maybe Maddie was avoiding it on purpose to try to shelter Alicia? Cause up until the situation with the dog, Susan's house and so on, she thought they'd slip out to the desert and Alicia would never need to see/know exactly what's going on? That's pretty unrealistic thinking on Maddie's part, yet not an unbelievable human reaction, especially given where they are in the crisis. From a storytelling point of view, that is actually ok with me. I am also ok with the concept of Travis failing to comprehend/acknowledge what we know to be the truth of the situation. The taking out of the trash was a nice touch. I actually got it, he didn't think to bury the bloody stuff, so what else are you gonna do? He's not a mobster, he has no idea, this is all way beyond anything he's experienced, that's true for all of his family, and I guess I would expect them to be floundering at this point. But I think the show is missing the mark somewhat by not showing the characters in more frantic, shocked moments. The absence of that element doesn't ring true. Maybe it's still coming, but I feel like I'm missing out on the "panic" part of the "Great Panic" portion of the zombie apocalypse, and I'm really interested in seeing it, especially in a place as heavily populated as LA.

[ViewerPDX]

Stopping to think about everything from The Dog, I think the thing that still bugs me the most is the dog allowing itself to be caught (& eaten) - thanks to the plot device it served to fulfill.

It just should not have happened. Because first of all, with the blood on it - and the fact it was trying to get in their 'back' patio door - it knew to avoid the zombies, because they would do bad things to it. Even if the dog doesn't successfully attack the zombie (jump on it and knock it down, at the very least), it should have been easily able to escape out the open door and ran out into the neighborhood. A fresh WD-universe zombie is a little quicker than a rotted one, but not quick enough for a healthy dog to not be able to evade and run away from. It wasn't like it was a very tight, cramped space the dog was backed into. In real world or fantasyland, its just not believable.

That dog didn't have to die (not like that, anyways). It ended up more of a bigger plot hole more than a plot point, IMO.

.

The dog thinks the Z is dead. Dogs are attracted to the scent of fresh blood and raw meat. I found it to make sense, since the dog can't process why this fresh meal is moving, and its overriding instinct is telling it to bite the walkiing steak, because steaks don't bite back. To the dog, dead is dead, even if it moves.

That's my theory, anyhow, and also why dogs are rarely seen in WD. They've been killed, because the only easy source of food available for a domesticated dog in the ZA will bite it, infect it, yet the dog's brain isn't nearly as complex as ours, so there is no re animation and the population trends toward extinction..

Edited September 17, 2015 by ViewerPDX

[ViewerPDX]

I can accept that they don't have zombie lore for either Romero or Haitian zombies and mindless, relentlessly shambling undead that want to eat living bodies is new to them. What irks me is that they should still have films like Halloween, Friday the 13th, and other horror fare and yet they're acting like they've never seen ANY horror film and don't have a grip on Basic Horror Film Survival 101. Is Barney the only TV show/movie they've ever watched?

It's been stated by the writers that zombie life isn't known in this Comic Book world.

I'll add that if I walked in on a neighbor eating a dog even knowing about zombies, my first thoughts would be bath salts or Angel Dust, not "he's a zombie bash his head in!!!" without calling the cops first. Explain that one to the cops when the autopsy showed drugs, and the cops start asking questions.

"Officer, I watch a lot of zombie stuff, and this guy was doing exactly what zombies do on TV so I smashed his head in with a baseball bat before calling you. I didn't want to turned into a zombie!"

No, I'd run outside, call the cops, and wait for them to arrest the guy because this is reality and zombies, although I know their mythology, don't exist. Even if they did, would they at all act the exact same as their fictional "weaknesses" are depicted on TV and in movies?

[MrHufflepuff]

I'm willing to cut a bit more slack for stupid behavior here because the crisis is unfolding, as opposed to TWD, where I want to smack everyone all the time.  Ok, there's no zombies in this universe, but the TWD crew often behaves like there's no apocalyptic fiction at all in their universe.  Here, everything is still in falling apart mode, so I can see people not making ready parallels to post-apocalyptic scenarios (like aliens or nukes or plagues), but it's pretty bizarre in TWD.

 

On the other hand, this is supposed to take place in LA.  Where the TV stations will interrupt programming to broadcast a freeway car chase for hours.  If all of this was indeed going down, channel 5 would be broadcasting the crap out of it and putting the population into a complete panic.  They'd have logos with "Plague Watch 2015" and Dr. Phil would be on to talk about how to cope with plague and Jillian Barberie would come on and tell us about the new Plague Dance that the kids are doing.

 

Instead, apparently, there's a news blackout on the whole thing.  That's the most unrealistic part.

[GreyBunny]

It's been stated by the writers that zombie life isn't known in this Comic Book world.

Yes, I know, but they lack the survival skills for even a non-zombie horror film.  As for behaving in real life, they'd already seen people die/be killed, become reanimated and try to attack them and they're still acting in a careless manner.  Who goes to a building alone when they've been told grisly murders just happened there, who doesn't call the police when they see a puddle of blood and guts all over the floor?  Who goes and gets their girlfriend and show her the murderhouse and STILL not call the police or bring other people with them?  And who leaves a door open in LA, especially at night?  Who grabs a gun and forgets the ammo?  Why keep their nearly-adult daughter in the dark about what little they actually know?  If they think it's some kind of flu and they don't know how it's spread, why get close to the zombified people?  The list goes on.  They have no horror sense whatsoever.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Yes, I know, but they lack the survival skills for even a non-zombie horror film.  As for behaving in real life, they'd already seen people die/be killed, become reanimated and try to attack them and they're still acting in a careless manner.  Who goes to a building alone when they've been told grisly murders just happened there, who doesn't call the police when they see a puddle of blood and guts all over the floor?  Who goes and gets their girlfriend and show her the murderhouse and STILL not call the police or bring other people with them?  And who leaves a door open in LA, especially at night?  Who grabs a gun and forgets the ammo?  Why keep their nearly-adult daughter in the dark about what little they actually know?  If they think it's some kind of flu and they don't know how it's spread, why get close to the zombified people?  The list goes on.  They have no horror sense whatsoever.

 

Actually, the way they are treating it in FTWD, I'm seriously questioning if the horror genre existed period in this universe, pre-ZA.  I mean, look at all the toned down reactions of the characters.  The next time Madison's face shows a true emotional reaction, it'll be the first time.  I've only witnessed 5 'true' reactions to the whole phenomenon since the show started; 1) Nick running from 'Gloria', 2) Nick "trucking" 'Cal', 3) Madison bashing in 'Arties' head [after finally getting a clue that he was beyond help], 4) Mr Salazar blowing 'Robert's' head off, and 5) Alicia fighting to get away from 'Susan'.

 

The rest of the time?  They're trying to get close enough to hug the zombies, and tell them it'll all be ok, "we'll get you help" - even after watching them EAT A REAL DOG, RAW.

[JackONeill]

Stopping to think about everything from The Dog, I think the thing that still bugs me the most is the dog allowing itself to be caught (& eaten) - thanks to the plot device it served to fulfill. 

 

It just should not have happened.  Because first of all, with the blood on it - and the fact it was trying to get in their 'back' patio door - it knew to avoid the zombies, because they would do bad things to it.  Even if the dog doesn't successfully attack the zombie (jump on it and knock it down, at the very least), it should have been easily able to escape out the open door and ran out into the neighborhood.  A fresh WD-universe zombie is a little quicker than a rotted one, but not quick enough for a healthy dog to not be able to evade and run away from.  It wasn't like it was a very tight, cramped space the dog was backed into.  In real world or fantasyland, its just not believable.

 

That dog didn't have to die (not like that, anyways).  It ended up more of a bigger plot hole more than a plot point, IMO.

 

I have a more direct and contemptuous take on the death of the dog. I think someone who makes these kinds of decisions likes to show animals being killed. Hell, on TWD they showed two (2) horses dying and being eaten. I think it's a childish and cheap way to create tension and fear. To me, TPTB are a bunch of kids that prefer gore over true terror. And that's the cheap way out.

Actually, the way they are treating it in FTWD, I'm seriously questioning if the horror genre existed period in this universe, pre-ZA.  I mean, look at all the toned down reactions of the characters.  The next time Madison's face shows a true emotional reaction, it'll be the first time.  I've only witnessed 5 'true' reactions to the whole phenomenon since the show started; 1) Nick running from 'Gloria', 2) Nick "trucking" 'Cal', 3) Madison bashing in 'Arties' head [after finally getting a clue that he was beyond help], 4) Mr Salazar blowing 'Robert's' head off, and 5) Alicia fighting to get away from 'Susan'.

 

The rest of the time?  They're trying to get close enough to hug the zombies, and tell them it'll all be ok, "we'll get you help" - even after watching them EAT A REAL DOG, RAW.

 

This is California, after all. The land of fruit and honey. I think this show fits with most people's perception of California- There's nothing that some herbal tea and some rolfing won't fix.

 

Contrast that with Georgia; "Well, god damn, Stu, that guy just don't look right. Let's blow his danged head off!!"

 

(Actually, I like California)(And I live in Georgia)

Edited September 17, 2015 by JackONeill

[Dobian]

I still don't get that with all that's going down, no one thinks to turn on a freaking tv.  They had plenty of opportunity before the power started cutting out.  It just felt really weird.  And why would the power cut out so soon anyway, are people dropping dead at power plants and turning into zombies?  I also didn't get why they all had to traverse that weird garden maze to get in and out of the neighbor's  house?  Why couldn't they just go out the front door when Madison saw Travis roll in?  Nick is completely annoying, they'd better get past that recovering junkie storyline soon or I will start rooting for him to get bitten.

[GreyBunny]

And why aren't they listening to a battery-operated radio?  The entire west coast is an earthquake zone, a large enough quake could knock out services for a while and having emergency supplies including a radio and spare batteries is a must for anyone who lives there. 

[Dobian]

The whole thing with that neighborhood was just "off".  At the very outset of this catastrophe, their street looked practically deserted.  There's the woman across the street, surly guy putting out his garbage (I guess the garbage man hasn't been zombified yet).  Where's everyone else?  You can bet that at the beginning of something like this, there would be LOTS of neighbors outside, going door to door to talk about what's going in.  People making runs to the supermarket to stock up on food.  But they make it feel like the apocalypse has already happened.  The National Guard comes in to round people up, but they seem to outnumber all the residents in the neighborhood.

[Watcher0363]

The power outages were the most realistic thing on this episode. An AC power grid is one of the most difficult power systems to maintain and stabilize. It takes constant monitoring. A sub station knocked out here, people calling in sick, delayed by riots or just dead. Leaves lots of low skilled people to handle things. Then if you factor in that power is bought across state lines, if that power source also becomes unreliable there is noway a power grid could remain stable.  

[Raven1707]

Same thing with Calvin;  I've heard stories that people on certain drugs don't feel things and that's the extent of my experience with that.

 

In the Pilot, when Nick asked Calvin what he'd given him, if it was laced with PCP, Calvin said something to the effect that the last thing he needed was customers who were "paranoid and pissed off and immune to pain."

 

Pretty nifty bit of writing there...

Edited September 17, 2015 by Raven1707

[Sakura12]

I'm going to guess the rest of their neighbors are dead or got the hell out of there when they saw/heard about people eating each other after watching tv or listening to radio like normal people do.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Sakura12

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I'm going to guess the rest of their neighbors are dead or got the hell out of there when they saw/heard about people eating each other after watching tv or listening to radio like normal people do.

 

Well, at least one neighbor had their priorities straight.  Throwing a bounce-house birthday party in spite of a ZA outbreak.

 

Someone missed that day of class in Some Things Just Aren't That Important When the World Breaks 101.

[LVmom]

Perhaps we are going to find out this is a shady government hush up(nothing on the news), and there will be an exciting conspiracy subplot. Wish in one hand?

[Watcher0363]

Well, at least one neighbor had their priorities straight.  Throwing a bounce-house birthday party in spite of a ZA outbreak.

 

Someone missed that day of class in Some Things Just Aren't That Important When the World Breaks 101.

You can say what you said, but when your kid wants a bounce house party and you have promised a bounce house party. It is like, bounce house party on one hand and zombie apocalypse on the other. As a parent, best to err on the side of bounce house party. Disappointed child's memory is like that of an elephant and there is a risk at some point they may hear that, "revenge is a dish best served cold." So when you are eighty sitting alone in the nursery home on your birthday and your only birthday card reads. "Remember my bounce house party. Me neither! Are you wrapped warmly?" Would of, should of, is very little comfort.

[JackONeill]

And if you put a bunch of Walkers in a bounce house you'd have . . .

[Freelancer]

This is how the Alexandria Safe Zone was done in TWD. Deanna told Rick the story when they arrived

 

Speaking of TWD - watching, loving and know what's in store is making it hard for me to watch this show. I think it would have been better to show how it started then cut to people surviving in another part of the country; maybe do the show in flashbacks. The way this plays out it just makes a majority of the cast unlikeable and stupid (which technically they are not because they have no idea what's in store nor would I personally believe the dead has some how risen and no one did a special about it on the Today Show)

 

At least we now know which Zombie Rosita either jacked for an outfit or used for style inspiration.

I'm a novelist, and I keep thinking this is the problem too. Often times, as I/we (we being other fiction writers) work through drafts, we discover that we started at the wrong point: namely, if there's a way to work the backstory into the thick of the novel/plot, you've started too early in your timeline, and readers quickly get bored. You have to drop the reader (or in this case, the viewer) right into the thick of the action, which is precisely what they did with TWD. Here, I'm just constantly reminded of one of my books in which I ended up cutting the entire first third (100 pgs! sob) during a revision: too early, too boring, too much lead time. Maybe FTWD would have worked better if we'd never seen TWD (in fact, I'm sure it would have!), but we have, and now, trying to rewind that clock and make us unknow what we already know just doesn't work. 

Edited September 18, 2015 by Freelancer