Aged Well: Old Shows That Are Better Than You Remember

[Marsupial]

Becker, the TV show Ted Danson did after Cheers, about a misanthropic doctor working at a low-income clinic in Brooklyn. It came and went without much fanfare, but it was a really smart and funny show that's definitely worth a second look.

 

Seconding and thirding the love for Malcolm in the Middle, ​a wonderfully subversive comedy that presaged Modern Family in many ways.

 

And Sisters! I haven't rewatched it but that definitely goes on my list, what a perfect nugget of 90s perfection. All the girls with boys' names! The sister who married her sister's husband! I want to relive all of it!

[Moose135]

I really liked Becker!  I agree, it didn't seem to get as much notice as it deserved.

[fishcakes]

I liked Becker too, and was always puzzled by how it was frequently referenced at TWoP as the epitome of a crap sitcom.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Haha, I'm a big fan of Curb Your Enthusiasm and there is an episode where Larry David shows up at ("real life") Ted Danson's birthday party with a chauffeur. Larry lets the chauffer into Ted's house and then the chauffeur proceeds to get very drunk.  There's a cute Becker reference here.  Watch from 0:30 if you don't want to watch too much.

 

Edited April 25, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[BW Manilowe]

Marsupial: Some, but not all (as I remember), of the seasons of Sisters are out on DVD now.

[bmasters9]

Marsupial: Some, but not all (as I remember), of the seasons of Sisters are out on DVD now.

Four seasons' worth to be exact, with the fifth one due for this July 19. 

[Marsupial]

Thanks for the Sisters heads up! And also for sharing that Curb clip...now that's another show I never get tired of rewatching.

[Sandman87]

Agreement about Becker being underrated. The character Becker reminded me of myself in some ways. Maybe in too many ways...

[Princess Sparkle]

I started rewatching The State recently (after receiving my copy of the Union of the State oral history from Amazon) and while I liked it back when I saw it in reruns, I appreciate The State so much more now that I'm older.  Some skits were out there, but so many of them were so smart and goofy at the same time, and it's not something that MTV would ever entertain putting on now.  

Plus, those 11 comedians are responsible for so many of the shows and movies I find funny now, so rewatching them when they were just starting out is a joy to me.  I just wish there were more episodes.

[zxy556575]

I suppose this could just as easily be in unpopular opinions, but I've been rewatching Star Trek: Voyager and love it a lot. Janeway is also my favorite captain.

During Voyager's original run I was living overseas with only one channel of American TV and watched because it was there but I remember enjoying it, especially after Seven of Nine was added to the cast. Now that I've also caught (thanks, streaming services!) on similar shows such as Next Generation, Enterprise, Deep Space Nine, the Stargate series, Battlestar Galactica and Babylon 5, I still prefer Voyager. I like every one of the characters, which isn't the case with other shows, and am drawn in by the warmer tone.

[slf]

I've started rewatching La Femme Nikita and I'm impressed by how well this show has held up. The fashion can be hilarious and Peta Wilson really cut her teeth with this series but overall it's great. Wilson is still electric as Nikita and Roy Dupuis smolders better than pretty much any actor on tv right now. Their chemistry is bananas. 

[Rick Kitchen]

I've been enjoying the episodes of "Wanted Dead or Alive" that I see on MeTV.  Steve McQueen rocked those tight, tight pants, and it's always fun to see the HITG guest stars. There was, however, an episode the other day where Josh tied up his horse at one of those black lawn jockeys that made me realize the racial sensibilities of the time.

[Raja]

Aspire has been running Room 222. I remember the liberal politics but didn't remember the  full on episodes related to gay rights, mentioning that the teachers Mr Dixon and Miss Johnson came out of segregated schools. Teachers being threatened with rape and other physical violence which I did remember from The White Shadow as a teen. There were even scenes were I can see changes in the world. Like Miss McIntrye helping out a boy who wants to be a Mainline minister and go to Harvard Divinity school and she was saying not a chance he grades don't even come close. So as a public school teacher she takes him to a coffee shop charismatic church service to say there is another way. And now guest roles from Chuck Norris and Aretha Franklin among others

[cynicat]

23 minutes ago, Raja said:

Aspire has been running Room 222.

I caught a few episodes and have been trying to decide if it holds up.  Overall, I think it does.  When I was growing up, I was sure that high school would be exactly like that!  I saw the episode you mentioned, and Aretha Franklin was amazing.  Also if today, a guidance counselor told a student that college isn't for everyone, his parents would sue before the sun went down. Special snowflakes can do anything they want!

[Chaos Theory]

Bumping up the thread to recommend Night Court.  It's running reruns on LAFF (I dint know exactly what channel that is but "you know you want to"). Anyway it's a lot funnier then I remember it being.  Maybe because I am older and I get the jokes now.

[cpcathy]

They had a few bum seasons but overall, Night Court was very funny.

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Bumping up the thread to recommend Night Court.  It's running reruns on LAFF (I dint know exactly what channel that is but "you know you want to"). Anyway it's a lot funnier then I remember it being.  Maybe because I am older and I get the jokes now.

I love that show. It was so fun and so funny.

[bmasters9]

On 6/23/2016 at 6:53 PM, Rick Kitchen said:

I've been enjoying the episodes of "Wanted Dead or Alive" that I see on MeTV.  Steve McQueen rocked those tight, tight pants, and it's always fun to see the HITG guest stars. There was, however, an episode the other day where Josh tied up his horse at one of those black lawn jockeys that made me realize the racial sensibilities of the time.

I've been seeing it on DVD (through six discs [first season and half of the second], and soon to start on that seventh disc [I think this is where Wright King joins up as Jason Nichols for a time; Jason being Josh's sidekick]), and it's been really good (I think it's one of the best series on DVD I've been seeing in quite a while). 

[janie jones]

On 8/28/2017 at 0:32 PM, Chaos Theory said:

Bumping up the thread to recommend Night Court.  It's running reruns on LAFF (I dint know exactly what channel that is but "you know you want to"). Anyway it's a lot funnier then I remember it being.  Maybe because I am older and I get the jokes now.

That's funny because I too have caught a few episodes recently on LAFF, and I don't like it nearly as much as I did when I was a kid!

Edited September 2, 2017 by janie jones

[cleo]

A channel where I live has been showing old tv series that I haven't seen, because they were before my time. 

-- Mary Tyler Moore- I am enjoying this. I'm not sure what season they're on but I've seen both Cloris Leachman and Betty White, which was cool. I think Sue Ann is my favourite character, and probably Rhoda. Murray seems to just be there to make one line jokes. Mary herself is ok. She is very thin, to the point of being spindly, unhealthy (to me) looking. Was she considered really attractive? 

--Partridge Family- I just could not get through a single episode of this. It just seemed too treacly. 

--They just started airing the Monkees and I've seen one episode, also read the Wikipedia write up. So yeah, it is weird although I love they were into breaking the fourth wall this early. The little 'music video' bit at the end was surreal- this poppy light music over the most random images, some of them that I think were supposed to be disturbing. The music was okay. I assume overall the show was best enjoyed stoned... I'll check it out again, but my days of indulging are behind me so not sure if I will stick with it or not. 

I just realized today they are also showing Bewitched, but it's earlier than I'm usually able to watch tv. I will try to catch an ep though.

 

I love watching old shows, I love watching something from another time period and just getting a glimpse of that period. I don't mean that the shows were accurate portrayals of a time, but they reflect the tastes etc. of a given time. 

I have also tried Hill Street Blues. I made it through the first two seasons. It is pretty good show overall, and I understand it strongly influenced the shows that came later, but I just got bored with watching it.  

Edited February 5, 2018 by cleo

[magicdog]

16 hours ago, cleo said:

A channel where I live has been showing old tv series that I haven't seen, because they were before my time. 

Sounds like you found FETV.

 

Quote

They just started airing the Monkees and I've seen one episode, also read the Wikipedia write up. So yeah, it is weird although I love they were into breaking the fourth wall this early. The little 'music video' bit at the end was surreal- this poppy light music over the most random images, some of them that I think were supposed to be disturbing. The music was okay. I assume overall the show was best enjoyed stoned... I'll check it out again, but my days of indulging are behind me so not sure if I will stick with it or not. 

 

I'm a huge Monkees fan and it's nice they turned up in syndication again (even though I have the Blue Ray set!)!  The show IMO is awesome although some fans are often torn over which season was better since despite the humor, there were differences (first season a bit more mainstream in look and sitcom tone while season 2 was more psychedelic and go for broke).  The music definitely stands the test of time (especially some lost gems which never made the light of day until relatively recently) and the show is credited as being the origin of music videos as we know them (at the time they were referred to as "romps").   I happen to prefer the first season a bit more - especially due to how well the guys come together as friends.  The serious moments balance the silly ones very well.  If you ever see the episodes,   "Success Story", "I've Got A Little Song Here", "One Man Shy" and "Monkee Vs. Machine",  you'll definitely agree how these guys sell it.   

 

ETA:  "Monkee Mother" is another Season 1 standout as they interact pretty well with the recently departed Rose Marie.

Edited February 6, 2018 by magicdog

[Annber03]

I remember watching the "Monkees" reruns all the time when I was a kid, 'cause my mom was such a fan of that show, and the group :D. I've caught the show again through adult eyes and can find a new appreciation for it. The humor is very odd sometimes, for sure (if not all the time :p),, but it was also pretty clever and entertaining. I would not be surprised to hear people who write for more current offbeat comedy shows citing that show as an influence. 

7 hours ago, magicdog said:

"Success Story", "I've Got A Little Song Here", "One Man Shy" and "Monkee Vs. Machine",  you'll definitely agree how these guys sell it.   

You just listed some of my mom's favorite episodes :). Especially "Success Story". I've lost count of how many times I've seen that one, as well as the one where Mickey dresses as a chaperone for a party. 

[cpcathy]

The Monkees was ahead of its time. It's a funny show, it even won the Emmy for Best Comedy one season!

[ratgirlagogo]

On 2/6/2018 at 3:25 AM, magicdog said:

he show is credited as being the origin of music videos as we know them (at the time they were referred to as "romps").   

Excuse me? By whom? I'm not trying to be combative - I'm genuinely curious  because I'm old enough to have watched this show in its original run (and to have been pissed that it replaced my beloved Man from Uncle) and I NEVER heard this term ever. Where did you grow up, that you heard this term?   The earliest versions of what later were called music videos I've always believed to be the films made for the Scopitone machines - These Boots Were Made For Walking was the most popular and the most famous but I remember the ones for Walk on By and King of the Road getting many plays as well.  The Shakey's pizza parlor in my home town  had a Scopitone machine and that's where I saw them at the time.  I think it cost a quarter for a play, which was more expensive than the three songs for a quarter you could get on the audio-only jukebox.

ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopitone

[magicdog]

Monkee co-creator, Bob Rafelson used the term to describe them from the beginning.  The term romp even falls into the dictionary definition:

 

Quote

 

a : high-spirited, carefree, and boisterous play

b : something suggestive of such play: such as 

(1) : a light fast-paced narrative, dramatic, or musical work usually in a comic mood 

 

I'll probably have to do more research to find the actual quote he used but I do remember him and those closest to the project had used that word to describe them.

 

5 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

The earliest versions of what later were called music videos I've always believed to be the films made for the Scopitone machines - These Boots Were Made For Walking was the most popular and the most famous

I remember seeing "These Boots..." on MTV back in the 80s as a "Classic Clip", and no doubt it's also is a forerunner to the modern music video.   I never saw a Scopitone machine where I was growing up (Long Island, NY in the 70s and 80s) but I'll take your word for it.  They may have had them in certain areas of NY (or NYC) during that time as well.  

 

The Monkees were different in which their romps were weekly (meant to promote their music in funny and interesting ways) and not occasional like the other artists you mentioned.  Although I'm too young to have seen this first hand, most music acts had to get their exposure between radio and occasional TV appearances.  TV helped their sales skyrocket if they were on a large enough show.  My parents used to tell me that if you performed on The Ed Sullivan Show back in the day, you were "made".  Same thing for American Bandstand.  Being a weekly TV series made the need to appear on those shows unnecessary for The Monkees.

[ratgirlagogo]

On 2/9/2018 at 4:12 AM, magicdog said:

I remember seeing "These Boots..." on MTV back in the 80s as a "Classic Clip", and no doubt it's also is a forerunner to the modern music video.   I never saw a Scopitone machine where I was growing up (Long Island, NY in the 70s and 80s) but I'll take your word for it.  They may have had them in certain areas of NY (or NYC) during that time as well.  

Scopitone machines were gone by the very early 70's.  You would not have seen them. They were jukeboxes that never quite took off, commercially - they were more expensive, there wasn't enough content, and basically most people didn't get the point of staring at them in a bar or a restaurant.  

 

On 2/9/2018 at 4:12 AM, magicdog said:

The Monkees were different in which their romps were weekly (meant to promote their music in funny and interesting ways) and not occasional like the other artists you mentioned.  Although I'm too young to have seen this first hand, most music acts had to get their exposure between radio and occasional TV appearances.  TV helped their sales skyrocket if they were on a large enough show.  My parents used to tell me that if you performed on The Ed Sullivan Show back in the day, you were "made".  Same thing for American Bandstand.  Being a weekly TV series made the need to appear on those shows unnecessary for The Monkees.

Your parents are right about  Ed Sullivan, but rock and roll acts were few and far between on that show.   And plenty of them DID make TV appearances - there were a lot of local dance party shows in those days (as in the movie Hairspray)  and bands with national hits would get on the national rock/pop specific music shows like Shindig and Hullaballoo and Where the Action Is - all of which  included filmed sequences, especially from the major acts like the Beatles and the Stones who were too big for these little penny-ante shows.  The Monkees didn't appear on those other shows in part because they weren't at that point an actual band.   While I get that Rafelson may have called the musical segments romps, I say, again, as someone who lived through the period in question, this doesn't convince me that "romp" was  a term used by anyone else.  They'd be called musical numbers if they were called anything, and as such had a long history on TV by that point with all the non-rock variety shows.    The Monkees was really set up to imitate the Beatles' movies - the producers hired some knockout professional songwriters, like Neil Diamond and Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart,  cast four reasonable looking young guys who played a band on TV  (and yes, yes, I know, I know! eventually learned to play their instruments and become a band in real life), and got a hip guy like Jack Nicholson's friend Bob Rafelson to pull it all together.  Thus their eventual extreme high-camp status - while they were fake, they recorded some great, great songs,  the show is often enjoyable, and I think Head is an amazing movie.

[janie jones]

3 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

eventually learned to play their instruments

I don't know about Davy Jones, but the other three were already musicians before the show.

[ratgirlagogo]

13 minutes ago, janie jones said:

3 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

eventually learned to play their instruments

I don't know about Davy Jones, but the other three were already musicians before the show.

Oh I think they all were to some extent, so that was maybe a little mean.    But not on the instruments they were supposed to be playing (Mickey was a guitarist, Davey apparently was the best on the drums, etc.) and in any case whatever they had done they were not a band - they were assembled to look like a band on TV.   The public shaming was so intense for them that , as I said, eventually they BECAME a band.  A band whose best material was written by other people, but a band.

[Willowsmom]

Davy was a broadway star. He was the Artful dodger in Oliver!

[Blergh]

I liked the Marx Bros. approach of the Monkees a great deal. However; IMO the only really entertaining part of "Head" was when the late Mr. Jones did a  music hall tribute re 'Daddy's Song' which included the then-unknown dancer Toni Basil as his dancing leading lady (who would later achieve fame with the single "  Mickey" which some thought was about Mr. Dolenz but she has denied this).

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

Oh I think they all were to some extent, so that was maybe a little mean.    But not on the instruments they were supposed to be playing (Mickey was a guitarist, Davey apparently was the best on the drums, etc.) and in any case whatever they had done they were not a band - they were assembled to look like a band on TV.   The public shaming was so intense for them that , as I said, eventually they BECAME a band.  A band whose best material was written by other people, but a band.

Does this make The Monkees the first of the "boy bands" (like N Sync)? 

[SVNBob]

21 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Does this make The Monkees the first of the "boy bands" (like N Sync)? 

There is a reason they were nicknamed "The Pre-Fab 4"....

[magicdog]

Actually here were "boy bands" (actually boy groups since they didn't always play when performing) predating the rock era. 

There were the Four Lads, The Four Freshman, The Four Aces (four was a pretty popular number wasn't it?)  and Doo Wop groups of the later 50s and early 60s.

Technically, you could say the barbershop quartets of the turn of the last century qualify as such!

[Miss Dee]

I now want an SNL skit where the latest boy-band pop craze is an old barber shop quartet. Or some agent trying to see a barber shop quartet as the next big craze.

[cleo]

10 hours ago, SVNBob said:

There is a reason they were nicknamed "The Pre-Fab 4"....

How did their timeline line up with the Beatles? I'm confused about timing between the Beatles, Beach Boys, and Monkees...because  I thought I read somewhere that the Monkees built their idea of the music videos or romps off the success of the yellow submarine film, which I think was 1966. Wasn't that prior to the Monkees? I guess I assumed Monkees and Beach Boys were copycats, which doesn't mean they didn't have distinct talent, etc., just that the Beatles were first. 

But I don't know a lot about the time period (born in the mid 70s...)

[Haleth]

I think the Monkees show was highly influenced by Help and Hard Day's Night.

Peter Tork's dad was my advisor in college.

[ratgirlagogo]

7 hours ago, Haleth said:

I think the Monkees show was highly influenced by Help and Hard Day's Night.

Yes,  A Hard Day's Night especially is the template for it.  To be fair the Beatles were the model for many many bands that formed organically at the time, hell even the present time - they presented the idea that a band should write its own material, and that lead guitar, rhythm guitar, bass and drums were the standard instrumental line-up for a rock and roll band.

 

On 2/12/2018 at 1:07 PM, cleo said:

I assumed Monkees and Beach Boys were copycats

Monkees yes, Beach Boys no.  Brian Wilson was (is still, sometimes) a brilliant songwriter but that is another movie, as they say.

Edited February 13, 2018 by ratgirlagogo

[biakbiak]

17 hours ago, Haleth said:

Peter Tork's dad was my advisor in college.

Peter Tork went to my college, and donated an arcade lounge.

Edited February 14, 2018 by biakbiak

[shapeshifter]

On February 10, 2018 at 6:36 PM, ratgirlagogo said:

While I get that Rafelson may have called the musical segments romps, I say, again, as someone who lived through the period in question, this doesn't convince me that "romp" was  a term used by anyone else. 

Ditto

21 hours ago, Haleth said:

Peter Tork's dad was my advisor in college.

This ^ post immediately brought to my mind a picture of Peter Tork from that era even though I could not have otherwise recalled his name, nor could I recall any of the plots, gossip, or details about The Monkees except a few bars of a few songs.

[janie jones]

I don't know what they were referred to as back in the day, but I have known a few knowledgeable Monkees aficionados, and romps is what the little music videos are commonly called now.

Edited February 15, 2018 by janie jones

[ratgirlagogo]

On 2/14/2018 at 7:31 PM, janie jones said:

I don't know what they were referred to as back in the day, but I have known a few knowledgeable Monkees aficionados, and romps is what the little music videos are commonly called now.

Late returning to this topic, but a quick Google search has convinced me that this is the case - it is a thing in Monkees fandom and there are more than a few fansites that have "romp" as part of the name.  Again I really do have to stress that this is a relatively recent usage and seems specific to this fandom.  But, it IS a useage and  like I said, I get that now.

Edited February 18, 2018 by ratgirlagogo

[shapeshifter]

I've been enjoying reruns of The Nanny on COZI TV, which is always my thing, but this was the first time that I cried watching the show. In 6.15, "Ma'ternal Affairs," Fran discovers that her newly slimmed down mother is having an affair with an appreciative, romantic doctor. The plot wraps up in a restaurant with Sylvia (Fran's mom) being serenaded by Morty (Fran's dad), played by the great crooner, Steve Lawrence. 

[fishcakes]

14 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I've been enjoying reruns of The Nanny on COZI TV

I'd forgotten all about The Nanny until COZI started rerunning it and then I was happy to see that it still holds up, and sort of proud/embarrassed that I still know the theme song by heart. Then about three weeks later, our local affiliate dropped the COZI network (because I can never have nice things), so I only got to see a handful of episodes.

[Bort]

The Nanny reruns on Logo also. I've reawoken my love of that show with the reruns. It's been off the air for almost 20 years and it's still hilarious. There's a few things that are dated, but it holds up really well overall. 

[magicdog]

On 2/10/2018 at 4:36 PM, ratgirlagogo said:

While I get that Rafelson may have called the musical segments romps, I say, again, as someone who lived through the period in question, this doesn't convince me that "romp" was  a term used by anyone else. 

I finally have the answer  this one!!  I was watching the series finale, "Mijacogeo" this morning when the guys were about to go on the run from the villian.  Suddenly there's a freeze frame and on the screen were the words, "Typical Monkee Romp".  So, yes, they were called romps when the show was first run.   

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, magicdog said:

I finally have the answer  this one!!  I was watching the series finale, "Mijacogeo" this morning when the guys were about to go on the run from the villian.  Suddenly there's a freeze frame and on the screen were the words, "Typical Monkee Romp".  So, yes, they were called romps when the show was first run.   

Great catch, @magicdog!
I wonder if it's used more frequently in Britain than the U.S.
Anyway, here's the relevant portion from the OED (Oxford English Dictionary):

Quote

b. A lively, fast-paced, and usually frivolous play, film, or other entertainment.

1895    G. B. Shaw in  Sat. Rev. 19 Oct. 504/1   ‘Poor Mr. Potton’, at the Vaudeville, is called a farce,..but it is hardly more than a romp.

1942    Los Angeles Times 31 Oct.  i. 7/2   This will immediately follow that hilarious romp, ‘Out of the Frying Pan’, which is proving a great drawing card.

1964    Film Q. Summer 59/2   Shock Treatment could have been a romp. Unfortunately Sanders has only managed a sporadically amusing, but frequently limp and sagging, film.

2009    N.Y. Times (Nexis) 10 Feb.  c1   The film is a romantic romp about a couple of corporate security types working a con on the corporations and on each other.

[Chaos Theory]

I was just watching a marathon of some of the early episodes of Married With Children.   I remember the show being really really mean.  I guess it got that way towards the end but in the beginning it was mean yes but not excessively so.    It would never have lasted in the current climate mind you.  It would trigger everyone but the first few seasons were genuinely funny.

[Vixenstud]

On 7/2/2016 at 9:16 AM, Raja said:

Teachers being threatened with rape and other physical violence which I did remember from The White Shadow

With Brian Stokes Mitchell trying to rape Ms. Buchanan!  I remember that one 'cause his name was Lucius which reminded me of Lucifer!

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I was just watching a marathon of some of the early episodes of Married With Children.   I remember the show being really really mean.  I guess it got that way towards the end but in the beginning it was mean yes but not excessively so.    It would never have lasted in the current climate mind you.  It would trigger everyone but the first few seasons were genuinely funny.

Heh, I was about to say MWC....damned TBS, taking them off my morning schedule!  Anyway, the best seasons were 3-8 and 10-11.  I agree, this show would not make it now, what with the fat jokes and sex stuff.

[Chaos Theory]

1 hour ago, Vixenstud said:

With Brian Stokes Mitchell trying to rape Ms. Buchanan!  I remember that one 'cause his name was Lucius which reminded me of Lucifer!

Heh, I was about to say MWC....damned TBS, taking them off my morning schedule!  Anyway, the best seasons were 3-8 and 10-11.  I agree, this show would not make it now, what with the fat jokes and sex stuff.

I think it didn’t get really mean until the kids grew up and Steve left.  I think MWC was one of those shows that was just cuter when the kids were younger.   Once they reaaaaaly dumbed up Kelly and turned Bud into a serious creep I think the show went in a weird direction for me.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Vixenstud]

2 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I think it didn’t get really mean until the kids grew up and Steve left.  I think MWC was one of those shows that was just cuter when the kids were younger.   Once they reaaaaaly dumbed up Kelly and turned Bud into a serious creep I think the show went in a weird direction for me.

For me, once they stopped with the 'we ain't the Cosbys' and actually acted like a real dysfunctional family, it hit its stride.  Watching it as an adult now, it got better once Steve left and the hilarious Jefferson came aboard.