S03.E13: The Wrath Of The Lamb

[Tippi Blevins]

Okay, but what happened to the Leeds family dog?!

 

Did Will have time to take to dog home to the rest of his pack? Is it still in a kennel somewhere wondering WTF is going on?

[lulee]

Okay, but what happened to the Leeds family dog?!

 

Did Will have time to take to dog home to the rest of his pack? Is it still in a kennel somewhere wondering WTF is going on?

Molly: "Dammit, he's disappeared, probably over a cliff, and I'm left with another damn dog... Eh, they're more reliable than him."

[dargosmydaddy]

Season 1 of Hannibal was one of my all-time favorite seasons of a show, ever. Season two didn't live up to it, but was still mostly awesome. Season three... I mentioned this in a thread earlier in the season, but it felt like everyone lost their humanity. The first two seasons were quirky and surreal, but the non-Hannibal characters still acted and reacted in ways that felt very real. Not so much in season three. Which may have been what Fuller was going for, and may even be realistic considering what Hannibal put them all through, but it left me cold. Don't get me wrong, there were still flashes of brilliance and some awesome performances, particularly by Hugh and Mads, but it wasn't the show I fell in love with.

 

Finale observations...

 

* I feel bad for Molly. She was one of the few season 3 characters who did feel human to me.

 

*That was one huge Verger baby! I know we had the three year time jump, but considering Alana wasn't even pregnant yet before the jump, that kid looked too old for two-and-a-half/ barely three.

 

*Could have done without the Red Dragon montage in the end. The scene was so poorly lit that for a moment I thought Francis had survived rather than it being a flashback.

 

*I think I kind of like the cliff dive. Good for Will. He takes out Hannibal and the self he is becoming.

 

I don't think I want another season, mini-series, movie, whatever. I prefer to think Hannibal and Will are dead, and that Bedelia is with Chiyoh, or really did just serve up her own leg in the belief that Hannibal might stop by. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure I'll watch if there is a follow-up, but if we get a Fuller show resurrection, I'd much prefer a Pushing Daisies movie.

[Anela]

**** me. First, my DVR hadn't recorded the episode, and they end it that way? I'm not on board for murder husbands. I haven't read all of the books, but I've seen comments about Clarice running off with him, so I guess that was going to be their way around it, but I'm disappointed in Will. Hugely. Unless he was trying to kill Hannibal, by tipping over that cliff - that, I understand. I thought he made sure that Hannibal went over the cliff. If he is supposed to be running around, and killing with him - ugh.

 

That stab to the head - ouch. I could have done without another bloodbath, too. 

 

Bedelia looked drugged, and terrified. 

 

Price and Zeller were my favourite part. 

 

I was hoping that Molly would be back.

 

dargosmydaddy: Season one was my favourite, too. I only watched it, to give it a try, when I saw an ad for it two years ago. I hadn't heard about it before NBC started running commercials, that March or April, and I ended up hooked. Seeing Hannibal play with everyone, and then Will finally getting treatment, and realizing what was going on. I like *that* Will. 

Edited August 30, 2015 by Anela

[lulee]

Just further confirmation ... Hugh Dancy indicates to EW that the cancellation news came after filming so no effect on what was shown:

 

Where in filming were you guys when you found out the show was canceled?
We had finished. We’d wrapped and left. So the finale was written, discussed, and performed, and put together before the show was canceled, so there was also a very clear idea for — believe it or not [Laughs] — what another season might look like.

[MorbidPet]

I'm just numb right now. I don't want it to be over. It is just too frickin good to be over.

[Anela]

Thank you for the links to the interviews. He said that it could either be Hannibal surviving the fall, and serving up Bedelia's leg, or it might be his Uncle, and Lady Murisaki... 

 

Regarding seeking out or avoiding anything else from Bryan Fuller: I would watch something else of his. I loved Dead Like Me, and liked Pushing Daisies, and Wonderfalls. My whole family liked Dead Like Me. 

Edited August 30, 2015 by Anela

[Captanne]

Oh, was "Dead Like Me" his?  I did like that very much.  I also liked "Wonderfalls."  Hmm.  Interesting.  Those were all too short lived, imo.  

 

That explains why I like(d) Hannibal so much.  Jeez, I just wish that start of S3 hadn't happened.  I understand his saying, "They were all in a fever dream and recovering from the end of S2....."  Believe me -- I'm a war veteran a couple of times over and so is Mr. C.  So are many of our friends.  We get PTSD.  I just don't agree with the amount of time Fuller spent on it.  I had no reason to believe while it was ongoing that it wasn't to be the tenor of the whole season.  (Also I tired of it very, very quickly.  It made me afraid for the possibility of cancellation.  You just can't masturbate like that on a national network.)

 

As a side note -- in the EW interview that ElectricBugaloo posted in the Media thread, Dancy says they were finished filming and off to the four winds when news of the cancellation came through.  So, that's an interesting bit of news in perspective of the Finale for S3.  It was left open ended for a reason.

 

ETA:  lulee GMTA!!  

Edited August 30, 2015 by Captanne

[Chaos Theory]

Now I really can't wait to see the gag reel!

I think that Will going over the cliff was less about suicide and more about killing Hannibal. Will thought he was sacrificing himself for the greater good. In ridding the world of Hannibal, he was making the world a safer place for Molly, Walter, and everyone else. Killing Hannibal meant freeing Molly and Walter from a lifetime of looking over their shoulders worrying if Hannibal or one of his lackeys was about to murder them.

Plus he had said it hinself numerous times. Things would never be the same with him and Molly. Every time he looked at her or her son he would see them murdered and himself as the murderer. Hannibal has succeeded in destroying the one pure thing in his life. Even without killing it.

[jeansheridan]

I think this group is gonna want to watch American Gods.  Gaiman and Fuller were meant to work together.  And if Fuller gives the Odin role to Mads (as he SHOULD), we will all be happy with the result. 

 

So more random thoughts.  I love love love that Chilton is alive.  The Wile E. Coyote indeed.  I also love that Fuller gave him some great comments to make and that his Chilton was no fool.  Misguided, pompous, sometimes silly in his ego, but no fool.  And I love that he was more or less surviving with himself intact.  He was still sarcastic and grandiose.  What happened to him throughout this show would have broken most people.  Hell, Will was a shattered person in many ways, but Frederick lives on, mind whole, planning his next book (which will write itself).  He is as tenacious in living as Hannibal.  Hannibal has got to be a bit impressed.

 

I feel bad that Hannibal didn't even get a sip of wine.  Although nice of Francis to provide all those shards of glass useful weapons.

 

Dancy said they only had 8 days to film this episode.  Eight days to do that escape sequence and fight scene.  That is like nothing.  Game of Thrones spent 12 days on one scene last season (and it was an epic scene, but still!).  The escape was a bit too tidy, but it fits with the incredible luck of Hannibal.  Maybe the details were incredible, but it felt like yeah, Hannibal would have such crazy perfect luck.  And we did know that Francis was a good shot.  The show did bother to establish his creds that way.  He wasn't a man to hesitate in shooting people.  I think if someone is that ruthless and unflinching, they can inflect a lot of damage quickly.

 

Although I will say, isn't this the THIRD time a person has gotten out of a police van at this point?  Abel, Will, and now Hannibal.  Those police vans aren't very secure apparently. 

 

And oh my goodness, Will's flirty "please" to Hannibal in the cell.  I love you Dancy.  While I'm fully happy to leave the kissing (and so much more) to fanfic, this kind of slow burn flirting is one of my favorite aspects to this show.  These two men (the characters I mean) really like each other.  They are at their very best and worst with each other.  It really is a beautiful thing to see come together.  From their first breakfast together to this final fall from grace, delightful. 

[Captanne]

Chaos Theory

 

Plus he had said it hinself numerous times. Things would never be the same with him and Molly. Every time he looked at her or her son he would see them murdered and himself as the murderer. Hannibal has succeeded in destroying the one pure thing in his life. Even without killing it.

But it's not canon -- at least not in Manhunter.  (I haven't read the book in a long time and I'm an advocate of making the books canon, a la Sherlock Holmes*).  In Manhunter, he resolves the Red Dragon story and is back with Molly at the beach. 

 

I mentioned that in my initial review of the finale -- it was interesting that Fuller finally completely and dramatically deviated from canon -- Will and Hannibal fall over a cliff together rather than Hannibal fading back to jail and Will ending up with Molly back in his isolated life with them.

 

(NB, in that EW interview, even Dancy acknowledges the "Holmes and Moriarty at Reichenbach Falls" homage in the last scene.  He jokes that he's not sure if he's to represent Holmes or Moriarty but I think it's pretty clear he's Holmes in that game.)

 

*Holmesians (or Sherlockians, pick your name) use the written and published stories as canon.  All other versions, of which their are millions, are open to interpretation.  At least in the Sherlockian Society I belong to.  It's a lovely note about Dancy and his Holmes allegory.  After Reichenbach falls, Holmes returned unscathed.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Captanne

[Chaos Theory]

As for me add Fuller to the list of show runners I most definitely would at least give a show I would not normally watch a chance. I loved every last.....bite of this show. Not sure it's in my top ten list but it sure is on my top twenty.

[Blue Chihuahua]

My fanwank is essentially they survive, Will gets taken to a hospital to recover, and Hannibal deals with Bedelia and is free to begin hunting Alana. I'll spare everyone the details. I really don't like the thought of "murder husbands". Never have. Their relationship is unique, so much more than that. That was why I loved the books and movies and the whole universe Harris created. Any relationship or encounter with Hannibal is beyond anything normal. Unique, as I said. That's what made it compelling to me. It was different. Not your average serial killer novel. I never saw it as anything even approaching sexual, and I never will. I think it's just too mundane for Hannibal. That said (very ineloquently), I would also like to say I will miss the show very much. It is right up there with "The X files" as one of my favorite shows ever. I'm glad we got the seasons we did, and I'm glad I was introduced to the wonderful actor that is Mads, but I'm greedy and want more. Third time NBC has let me down. Three strikes and you're out NBC.

ETA: Is it wrong that I was a little disappointed in Hannibal's escape? I was hoping for something a little more...clever?, elaborate? I don't know. I was just a little underwhelmed, especially considering the escape in SotL.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Blue Chihuahua

[Penman61]

I would love an audio recording of the Hannibal director/DP at home watching when one of those goddamn daybright NBC animated promos unfolds across the bottom of their carefully-wrought arty-dark scenes.  

 

They annoy me, so I can only imagine how they enrage the creators.  I picture them on their knees, tears streaming, touching the screen, sobbing, "My chiaroscuro...my chiaroscuro!"

Edited August 30, 2015 by Penman61

[attica]

Poor Frederick.

 

Fuller describing Esparza's antics on set while in his charred makeup made me so happy. 

 

Anderson looked so good in that blue lace dress, I can't even.

[queenanne]

YES on both points! Who's going to let these police officers deliberately be murdered to further Hannibal and Will's scenario to catch Dolarhyde? Jack would okay this? Also, why show Will having a loving wife and son and then make us believe he'd commit suicide and leave them behind? Maybe Fuller should've left off Molly and her son completely because they didn't contribute much and then he could've justified his ending better.

 

This x1000.  Took the words right out of my mouth.  These were huge flaws in the plan.  The officers worst of all - no way would someone authorize that. Even if just Will did it that would be bad enough, because I can certainly see a season of "how do we who love him, pull this man we love back from the clutches and sharing the mindset of insane monster Hannibal" - but those poor officers.  Within the show context they are "real people", if it's a "real accident" I don't care about unnamed extras, but when we know it's a purposeful construct that could have been avoided and that one of our human windows into the show's world caused this... why couldn't those officers have had helmets and flak jackets?  Because we can't run the risk of them really thwarting this pretend transport?  No... just no.  Outfit some prisoners from Death Row or something as fake law enforcement.  That almost ruined the whole episode for me.

 

Based on this season Molly does indeed seem to have been shoved in there simply because she was in the book, and casting Nina Arianda, in retrospect, seems like it's signifying Molly will be a cheap pointless shortcut because they can't spare the time to break in a new unknown-to-him-actress, for Hugh Dancy to develop ground-floor-level chemistry with.  Since Fuller clearly had the ability to do whatever he wanted with the characters he got, I'm very disappointed he didn't do more with Molly.

[Neurochick]

I don't like the idea of Hannibal hunting Alana, he lied to her about who he was, fuck him, or don't fuck him.

 

And oh my goodness, Will's flirty "please" to Hannibal in the cell.  I love you Dancy.  While I'm fully happy to leave the kissing (and so much more) to fanfic, this kind of slow burn flirting is one of my favorite aspects to this show.  These two men (the characters I mean) really like each other.  They are at their very best and worst with each other.  It really is a beautiful thing to see come together.  From their first breakfast together to this final fall from grace, delightful.

 

 

I once read this blog post where a woman said "for every pot, there's a lid."  But what if your lid is a serial killer?  

 

I think Will kept coming back to Hannibal because Hannibal really, understood him.  Hannibal knew what Will was like deep down inside.  And Will also knew Hannibal, Hannibal knew it.  Hannibal is a predator, he will kill what he views as prey, but he knows that if he kills Will, that's it, there's nobody to really know him and unlike the book Hannibal,

he doesn't have to drug them to make them stay.  

.

 

But on the other hand, Hannibal might leave Will, the same way Francis left Reba.  I believe that Francis loved Reba but that small, sane part of his brain knew damn well that eventually he'd kill Reba because that's who Francis was.  Hannibal knows on some level that because he is a predator, he will eventually kill Will, and that would break Hannibal's heart because then he'd have no one who knows him.  

[Captanne]

I don't know Nina Arianda but I liked her very much.  I particularly liked Fuller's Molly.  She was consistent and wonderful.  Very grounded and a fresh breath of reality in a show that needed it.  (I'm not being negative about the show -- it was dark and mysterious.  I loved that about it.  Which made Molly's existence all the more welcome and bracing.)  I especially liked Arianda's performance.

 

Earlier someone suggested the show bordered on misogyny -- and the examples they used of Alana and Bedelia and Reba are good ones and well taken.  I agree with the problematic trend as far as the argument goes ... but no further.

 

I think Molly's character is a good example of Fuller's balance with women.  Even, God forbid, Chiyoh represented agency, power, and the one person who finally escaped Hannibal's grasp alive, perhaps even the healthiest because her stated goal is to watch Hannibal and prevent him from hurting anyone else.  (Was she watching the final showdown from an aerie somewhere and determined that the Red Dragon was a worthy victim for Hannibal to successfully be allowed to kill?)

 

But, back to Molly -- she was strong, resourceful, practical, and remained consistently that way.

 

I think, maybe, the only argument in her case for misogyny is that she just wasn't given enough air time.  I don't happen to agree with that, though.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Captanne

[redfish]

So many interpretations just from the finale. Hee.  I think that finale fight Will/Hannibal vs. Dolerhyde  I think what made it "special" for Hannibal was not only was it a kill that he and Will could share it was with a prey that was powerful enough to make Hannibal feel "alive."

 

Bedelia in the past always got away with being detached to the carnage/chaos. When Hannibal accused her in the beginning of season3 of whether she's participating or observing, she was able to rationalize that she wasn't really a killer by using the "observing" card while still getting the thrill of seeing a murder. She wanted to have it both ways without staining her sanity or soul. But after Will dropped the information to her, he was able provoke an emotional reaction from her (fear) and tipped her mind over the edge. Now she is forced to either participate (offering up her leg for dinner) or observe her own murder.

[Snookums]

I could have done without another bloodbath, too.

 

 

I loved the final battle but part of me was wondering "What on earth is the line item cost for fake blood on this show?" I wouldn't be surprised if the real FBI nosed around just to make sure all the bodies were fiberglass.

[Captanne]

LOL, Snookums.

 

Say, I really am taking the "Bedelia served her leg" on faith (based on you guys and the interviews with Fuller I've read) -- I don't doubt them.  But, I gotta tell ya, that was so dark that I couldn't tell really what was going on.  I could see her in the plunging neckline at the sumptuous table and the leg entree.  Then the camera went down to her left hip and....

 

Lost me.

 

How do we know it's her leg?  I don't doubt it -- but what did "we" see?  (I didn't even notice her hide the fork.) 

 

ETA:  For the record, I couldn't closely watch the "It Was A Dark and Stormy Night" moment on the cliff top, either.  I was afraid it would get hokey.  Then, I just remember thinking, "Boy, I'd like to be Will right now.  Snuggling up like that looks so -- warm and safe."  And then I thought, "What the FUCK am I thinking?  After that death scene?!"  So I was in a bit of a fuddle when the Bedelia meal rolled around.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Captanne

[queenanne]

Er, it looked like they cut away half of a long skirt to show us her stump.

 

At least, with Fuller's interpretation I have no doubt believing he meant it to be a stump.  Tough to retrofit its description against what I know of lingerie, considering I'm not familiar with undergarments designed for amputees.  I do think the undergarment would have made no sense as worn by someone with two whole legs, as it looked like the elastic cuff of the stockings designed to be worn with garter belts - maybe that was meant for a tourniquet effect - or if you had Spanx type boy shorts with an elastic leg-cuff descending down.

[lulee]

ETA:  For the record, I couldn't closely watch the "It Was A Dark and Stormy Night" moment on the cliff top, either.  I was afraid it would get hokey.  Then, I just remember thinking, "Boy, I'd like to be Will right now.  Snuggling up like that looks so -- warm and safe."  And then I thought, "What the FUCK am I thinking?  After that death scene?!" 

I don't usually have dreams about meeting Mads Mikkelsen at a bookstore, but when I do, it's after a scene like that.

[kechara]

I had to watch twice. Her dress seemed to be slit at the side up to nearly her hip. Her leg was white and bandaged at the stump. The bandage looked kind of blue to me. I didn't realize that's what it was the first time

[jeansheridan]

 

Then, I just remember thinking, "Boy, I'd like to be Will right now.  Snuggling up like that looks so -- warm and safe."

They did their job then.  Because that was probably the safest Will had ever been with Hannibal.  I was thinking of all the Dante references and then I thought of Milton.  So Will and Hannibal have one moment of perfect understanding and paradise (with blood and pain because life has blood and pain) and then the fall from grace into the ocean.  Weeeeeeee.

 

Also, Fuller really doesn't like to kill off his characters.  Alana, Chilton, Jack, our two favorite techs, Freddie (yea!), Bedelia (mostly) make it.  Beverly was probably the worst death for me (and most frustrating since she did everything wrong), Abigail, and Bella.  I'm not counting the killers, although Abel definitely died badly (although with a certain sass).

 

All those troopers dead.  I'm not sure how Will intended that to go down.  It's hard to imagine he would willingly put innocents into harms way in such a callous manner.  Was he imagining they would get to the safe house and then Francis would attack?   I must say, Will never seemed to get a handle on Francis.  He was always surprised by the man and his sudden actions.  One thing about Francis--he was a man of action.  Decisive once he decided.  Not really a thinker. 

 

I love how he also threw Hannibal off like he was a gnat.  He did that to Will too, but to see him toss Hannibal was impressive.  Mads has never looked so small.  Even compared to Jack and I think Jack is pretty big. 

[Captanne]

Bella died, too.  Don't forget Bella.

[Chaos Theory]

Captanne

 

Season 4 (If there was one) would have had to deviate from cannon regardless.  Fuller failed to get access to Silence of the Lambs so there would have to be some Deviation (No Clarice Starling for one)  .  I think the show stayed with a cannon enough but then decided to go with an ending that felt organic for the show.    Honestly this version I could not see Will going back to his life with Molly and being happy.  It would have been interesting to write it that way and see that Hannibal was right that he could never go back home again but I think the choice Fuller made was a good one.  

Edited August 30, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[tennisgurl]

I wanted to put off watching this, but I needed to know how it happened. 

 

I kind of knew this was the only way it could end, but damn. What an ending. What a show. Just...wow. 

 

Honestly though, the injuries that people survive on this show. Its probably the most magical realism of this whole thing. 

[RazzleberryPie]

Say, I really am taking the "Bedelia served her leg" on faith (based on you guys and the interviews with Fuller I've read) -- I don't doubt them.  But, I gotta tell ya, that was so dark that I couldn't tell really what was going on.  I could see her in the plunging neckline at the sumptuous table and the leg entree.  Then the camera went down to her left hip and....

 

Lost me.

 

How do we know it's her leg?  I don't doubt it -- but what did "we" see?  (I didn't even notice her hide the fork.) 

I couldn't tell what was going on under the table, either, but that was definitely a leg and settings for three on the table. Glad for the clarification here.

 

I can't help but roll my eyes and sigh when Bedelia and will speak to each other. It's just very. slow.  carefully.   chosen. words. that.   sound. all. wisened.   and like they're trying to have some cultured, calculated duel, but it just comes off as smug, pretentious, and never really saying anything. Bedelia had potential, but then annoyed me, plus being drugged out of her mind was a pathetic alibi. Own what you're doing or go home.

 

Rushed, weird ending, but I guess the cancellation was to blame. 

[supposebly]

 

why couldn't those officers have had helmets and flak jackets?  Because we can't run the risk of them really thwarting this pretend transport?  No... just no.

I might be misremembering, don't think that was actually the plan. Jack's face (and the implied egg on it) confirmed that for me. While Will suggested the plan, and I'm fairly certain he devised it in detail with Dolarhyde, he and Jack had another plan. They agreed on using Hannibal as bait, but the how was different, I'm sure. Jack wasn't going to sacrifice those officers but I think Will was.

Jack should have been more aware of what Will was capable of after the Chilton disaster. But Jack has a huge blindspot when it comes to Will. I don't think he realized that Chilton was entirely Will's fault.

 

All big parts of why Will knew he had to die and kill Hannibal in the process.

 

I checked on the CityTV website again: Yes, Bedelia is missing most of her left leg. So, unless they put it in the freezer, that leg on the table is hers. She looks high and terrified at the same time and I finally saw her hiding the fork. If this is really Hannibal who is hosting, he will notice the absence of a fork, I'm sure.

Edited August 30, 2015 by supposebly

[jeansheridan]

At the end of last season, I had wanted Molly to be the redeemer of Will (or his motivation to fix himself), but I clearly don't have Fuller's brain.  I give him credit for following this relationship to what feels like an inevitable conclusion.  Molly is no Watson, for fans of Sherlock.  In Sherlock, Watson helps Sherlock stay human.  He's both a weakness and a huge support for him.  Molly never got enough time to be that for Will.  She was an alternative reality.  A fairytale for Will to live in for three years.

 

Damn, Hannibal is quite devoted.  Three years in a cell to get your obsession to finally understand what he has been missing!  

 

I did love that moment when Mads discarded his straitjacket and strolled over to the police car.  He put his face into the sun, delighted with life.  Hannibal never seems to have a bad day.  Probably the worst moment for him ever was when Will rejected him.  Otherwise, it's all good in Hannibal's world. 

 

I though it was interesting that Will referred to himself as a "cow".  Up until they were outside, he still didn't quite see each other as equals.   Or he assumed Hannibal didn't see him other than as meat.  Defense mechanism?  Even at this point, he still doesn't want to be Hannibal's equal?

[jeansheridan]

 

While Will suggested the plan, and I'm fairly certain he devised it in detail with Dolarhyde, he and Jack had another plan. They agreed on using Hannibal as bait, but the how was different, I'm sure. Jack wasn't going to sacrifice those officers but I think Will was.

I still don't think Will was so far gone he was willing to let people die like that.  And I think the van crashing and Will going a bit fuzzy was an out for him (and maybe a narrative cheat--Will doesn't have to act because he can't act). 

 

He does it snidely, but Will does have the decency to tell Bedelia to get out of Dodge while the getting is still good.  And while I love Bedelia, this is the one time I wish Anderson had just broken out and snapped that line at him instead of sticking to her stylized delivery.  Nothing will be as good as her "I am Lydia Fell" swanning however.  I think Bedelia and possibly the Cynthia Nixon character were the only people who didn't care for Will at that much.  And Freddie.  I think Freddie had a healthy distrust of Will.  In fact, I would say, Freddie tolerated Will for the sake of a story, but she's one of the few characters not charmed by him.  Mason wasn't much either actually.  Not that Will was charming.  If he hadn't had Dancy's lovely face and all those dogs, he didn't have much going for him.

[supposebly]

 

I still don't think Will was so far gone he was willing to let people die like that.

He pretty much set up Chiyo killing that man, so I think it was only a logical step to do anything to get Hannibal (and himself) to that point.

 

 

I though it was interesting that Will referred to himself as a "cow".  Up until they were outside, he still didn't quite see each other as equals.   Or he assumed Hannibal didn't see him other than as meat.  Defense mechanism?  Even at this point, he still doesn't want to be Hannibal's equal?

I would go with defense mechanism. A last-ditch effort to distance himself and to see himself as a victim only.

[Tippi Blevins]

I don't know if Will planned for all those guards to die, but he didn't seem especially upset by it, either. I think Francis probably knew the plan was a trap and decided to follow them from the hospital, or somewhere nearby, and just cut out all the middle men.

 

Did Hannibal and Will take the police car all the way to his house? Did they hotwire another car somewhere en route? Because I feel like somebody should have been able to track the missing police car(s) pretty quickly.

[thuganomics85]

Well, it certainly looks like Fuller was prepared for this to be the end.  Sure, there were a few glimpses that could lead to the idea of continuing, but I think this can easily work as a series finale.  Will and Hannibal officially become "murder husbands" (thanks, Freddie. That will never get old!), and kill Francis/The Red Dragon, but then Will takes them both off a cliff.  Have to watch again, but it really looked like it was Will that initiated the fall, which I think makes sense.  He knew that, even if Francis deserved it, he was continuing to loose himself to Hannibal, and he felt this was the only way to end this.  Dark for sure, but I really didn't see a happy ending for either Will or Hannibal.

 

Now, the "special" scene with Bedelia, does put a damper on things and makes it possible they or at least Hannibal survived.  But I'm fine with pretending it was either Chiyoh or Bedelia is crazy enough to have done it herself somehow.  Either way, I wasn't a huge fan of that scene.  I think her getting owned by Will was a perfect send-off for the character, and this wasn't needed.

 

At least Alana and Margo made it out.  I got worried when I saw Katherine Isabelle's name because I wonder if she was going to be set-up as a casualty of war, but I'm glad that wasn't the case.  Alana may have been a jerk to Hannibal, but really: he deserved it, so I didn't want her to get punished for it.

 

Jack's final scene being him standing around baffled that another plan failed was hilarious.  You suck, Jack.  Even with Francis dead, I can't see you not getting demoted after this clusterfuck.

 

This season really could have used more Zeller and Price.

 

Glad we got a final moment with Chilton.  I don't think it's surprising at all that he's still alive, and really, considering how unrealistic this show always is, I really don't find it that far-fetched.  Hell, I don't think ever Will or Hannibal should have been standing after getting shot and all those knife wounds.

 

I do feel bad for Molly.  And her son.  And, of course, the dogs.  I just hope the dogs find happiness: wherever if it is still with Molly or elsewhere.

 

Disappointed they couldn't work Freddie in briefly: maybe having her blog about Hannibal being "released" into FBI custody or something.

 

Overall, I will miss the show and it's amazing cast and characters, but I found this to be a satisfying end to the Will/Hannibal chapter.

[saber5055]

Hugh Dancy indicates to EW that the cancellation news came after filming so no effect on what was shown

 

 

I find that very off putting that Fuller thought about or even wanted to do another season of this dreck. This finale was, IMO, a gigantic EFF YOU to the viewers and the network. This season bordered on FU for most episodes, but this one ... please. Jack, Alana and the FBI were portrayed as jackasses and morons, as were the two lab people, whose banter was more like they were working to be stand-up comics than scientists. And the final scenes? Please. Too moronic and over-the-top to even discuss.

 

So to Fuller saying FU to us, I say one big EFF YOU, Fuller, for effectively making me hate what I once loved. I use to think you were better than that.

[Black Knight]

It's really hard for me to get behind an episode that required major characters to be so fucking stupid in order to get the ending. Although, it was almost worth it for Bedelia's scene. GA's face of utter shock at the very start, upon hearing Will's dumbass plan, made me giggle for a good thirty seconds and was the moment of the episode for me. And then she went on to abuse him, in her particular way, for his dumbassery. I loved that she threw in "twitchy."

 

Margot must truly love Alana, because if I were her, I would have been all, "Oh hell no. You created this mess by willingly allowing the crazy serial killer who has sworn to kill you to go free. You get in one helicopter, and I and our son will be flying off in another helicopter and going as far away from you as humanly possible." (I did love the sheer gothic visuals of their short scene together, the clothes and the castle and the wind...I wish Katharine Isabelle had gotten more this half-season than a wordless cameo, but at least we saw her.)

 

I just...don't really know what the hell Will and Alana were thinking. I get that there was a certain sense of fatality going on with them - Will knowing Hannibal would never let the two of them be finished, Alana feeling that she's living on borrowed time as Hannibal said to her - but Hannibal was in custody, they had other options. Just fucking arrange a "suicide" in Hannibal's cell and have done with it - you can't tell me that Alana with her control of the institution and her money and power couldn't have set it up and gotten away with it. And what the fuck was Jack's excuse for going along with this supremely idiotic plan? Okay, so Will and Alana were utterly blinded by their sense of fatality - which I don't really buy, as I said, but at least it's something - but Jack? He knew who the Red Dragon was and what he looks like, so it wouldn't have been that hard to run him to ground. It was not necessary to use Lecter as bait. And of course a bunch of poor cops who just had the bad luck to pull the "escort Hannibal" duty get killed as a result.

 

I've hated Will since S2, and this episode made me hate him even more, "reckless twitchy little man," but at least in the end he found just enough decency inside himself to shove himself and Hannibal off a cliff and put this all to an end. Finally. If he'd done that in S2 when he had the chance to kill Lecter and declined because Lecter was "interesting" to him now, so many lives would have been saved.

 

I suspected that Fuller meant this season to be the last anyway, and I did appreciate the ending. I just wish it hadn't required such utter stupidity to get there. I could live with one of Will, Alana and Jack being that epically stupid, but a plan that required all three of them to be so stupid was really just a fail on the writers' room part. Having Bedelia rant in her fashion to hang a lampshade on the stupidity just isn't enough, as enjoyable as GA was in that scene, because this is easily the dumbest thing by far that I've seen any character do this TV season. And I watch Mistresses and Under the Dome, for god's sake!

Edited August 30, 2015 by Black Knight

[crowswork]

On demand the scene with the Leg is missing. We see Alana choppering out with the family but No Bedelia after the Will scene.

[Black Knight]

Her final scene looked cold to me.  She looks at Margot, but Margot does not look at her, say anything, or acknowledge her.

Alana wasn't looking at Margot, she was looking behind her at their burly bodyguard with a huge gun. Just the show's way of letting us know that, as Fuller said, Alana and her family are going to have to have guys like that following them around all the time now. Alana will always be looking over her shoulder to make sure it's her bodyguard there and not Hannibal.

 

And Fuller does call Alana's ending the only happy one of the bunch. She gets to go away with her wife and son, even if she has to have bodyguards. If Margot was mad at her she wouldn't have been flying off in the same helicopter. She's staying with Alana even though that puts herself more at risk. Now mind you, Margot's being a lot easier on her than I would be, but she clearly loves her dumbass wife even though she's a dumbass. (And as stupid as Alana was in this episode, I was still happy she made it out alive. That was one reason I was glad earlier this year when the show's cancellation was announced, because she was marked for death but that death seemed like a late-series kind of event, not something that would happen in S3. So our last image of Alana is her safe and going away with her family.)

 

I consider Molly to have had a happy ending too, though, even though we didn't see her. She's vastly better off without Will, who never really cared about her or her kid and just wanted the illusion. She was to Will what Alana was to Hannibal for a time, a useful cover. Molly's rid of him now and can remarry someone who isn't a budding psychopath and won't totally ignore a giant "I'm sending a serial killer after your wife and stepson" sign in bright neon letters.

[Bruinsfan]

So true about Stephen King adaptations. There generally is no inbetween... except maybe "It" and "The Stand."

I'd argue that rather than being in-between, It manages to be both at once: brilliant whenever Tim Curry is onscreen, awful the rest of the time.

 

And Fuller does call Alana's ending the only happy one of the bunch. She gets to go away with her wife and son, even if she has to have bodyguards. If Margot was mad at her she wouldn't have been flying off in the same helicopter. She's staying with Alana even though that puts herself more at risk. Now mind you, Margot's being a lot easier on her than I would be, but she clearly loves her dumbass wife even though she's a dumbass.

It makes sense to me, Hannibal is not the Devil to Margot; that role is reserved for her brother. Since Alana finally freed her from Mason's control and helped her thwart even his posthumous revenge plans, the extra security precautions are just an inconvenience which could easily be accepted as bad that must be taken with the good.

[DeadlyEuphoric]

I don't think Hannibal woud kill Will eventually. The one time he "really" seemed like he coud kill Will was in Italy, when he felt he could never really have Will and wanted to consume him to always keep a part of him with him - and I still believe part of that was Bedelia's own manipulation of Hannibal, she was the one who was all "well, if you ate your sister to forgive her her influence, you should probably eat Will to really forgive him too". Since then Hannibal seems to have gone firmly back to his "World is just better with Will in it" stance...

 

Whatever else Hannibal is,he is not some mindless unfeeling beast who just indiscriminately kills whoever comes his way because humans are just so tasty. As  Chesapeake ripper he would kill 2-3 people in a row and then go silent for a long time, actually when the show started he had been "silent" for about 2 years? Probably stopped after Miriam Lass got so close to catching him and waited his time? And for about 8 moths after S2 finale, he didn't kill anyone,except for Dr. Fell and his wife whose IDs he needed. The man can certainly control his "murder impulses" very well and doesn't necessarily live in a state of "stab stab, kill kill" mind.  And even before meeting Will he had human connections. He clearly loved his sister. He clearly cared for Chiyoh and did not mean to cause her any physical harm. He has great social skills and a lot of "friends" that he entertained for dinner, and I don't think he meant to kill and eat any of them - he likes having an audience to enjoy his shows after all. He kills people he finds rude and annoying and a danger to himself, the rest he tolerates or keeps around for his amusement or simply finds worthy enough to keep around. For example Alana. I think he truly enjoyed her company, and had no plans to harm Alana at all  (he even pretty much said he was hoping they would part without an encounter) untill she chose to be brave and tried to kill him. He liked Abigail very much and seemed very keen on saving her, but Will and anything related to Will comes first so he ended up killing Abigail to punish Will for betraying him. Even killing Jack wasn't a necessaty for him, as he was willing to forgo plans to kill Jack and offered Will to run away together right that instance (after realizing Will's betrayal, it was him giving Will a chance to make it all alright, even though Will didn't know it at the time), without going through their "kill Jack" plan (which was something Will suggested in the first place). Given Will's special status as the one person Hannibal truly loves and cares for in this world, who he seems to not do without, I really don't see Hannibal killing him.

 

As for why Hannibal is so special for Will and why he keeps going back to him. Before Hannibal Will was an extremely lonely person. He was antisocial. Not wanting to socialize with people, living in a secluded place, not able to make eye-contact. The one person he seemed to have as a friend was Alana and she actively avoided being alone in a room with him  - and he KNEW. That must have been hurtful. It seemed, anyone who met him who lacked the skills and knowledge to understand his empathy, found him weird and quirky and kind of disliked him or didn't connect with him. And the ones who did more or less understand his empathy and mental state, had such a huge "professional curiosity" about him that they were more interested in analyzing him, and he avoided them as a result. Hannibal was the one true exception. Hannibal would like nothing better than spending days and days alone in a room with Will, talking. Hannibal understands Will, doesn't judge him, helps him understand himself better, and shows great appreciation to the guy. Hannibal loves Will, and he shows it. And whatever "curiosity" Hannibal has on Will is a personal curiosity, not a professinal one. Hannibal wouldn't really want to write about Will, as he rather likes keeping Will all to himself. Their relationship is very intimate, very personal and very close. He doesn't treat Will like a fragile thing that can break at any point, nor does he treat Will as some useful means to an end. It is not about what he can "get" from Will, it is a relationship with reciprocacy. A relationship where they are equals, and they are truly friends. They both get something out of t.  They had a special bond they never had with another person in their entire lives. And Hannibal being a serial killer just doesn't change any of that. I loved how Will described their relationship, that they had a mutual unspoken pact to ignore the worst in eachother to continue to enjoy the best. Because the "best" is just that good, and that needed. It is why they ache for one another, and why they can't help but be in each other's orbit.

 

I think the relationship with Molly was there to underline this. Here was Will, in an apparently happy, healthy, supportive relationship where he was loved and even got to be a father. But it wasn't enough. Couldn't be. Because it was a relationship where he had to hide parts of himself, even from himself. Where he couldn't connect with Molly %100 and even if he told her about everything that happened with Hannibal,they still wouldn't be able to connect as Molly simply lacks that kind of "darkness" to understand and connect. Ironically, that is exactly why he chose her as his wife. He was trying to run away from the darkness,to have a pure, unstained , apparently perfect and peaceful life. It is why he didn't even want to let Jack inside the house, he wanted to preserve the purity. But it is not natural, it is not who Will is. He can try to ignore the darkness,but it is there, and it will creep into their lives somehow. And once it did, there was really "no point" to go back to Molly and Walter. What made that life special, what Will "enjoyed" about that life was lost. And I think he realized his one true,honest relationship was the one with Hannibal, it is why he gets so drawn to the guy. Hannibal simply gets him.

 

 

From what I understand the "FBI plan" was for Hannibal to be taken to a special house where he would be under FBI surveilance, and the location of the house made it easier to monitor whoever came and went. Once they were all settled in the house, the press was going to be told Hannibal escaped while being transferred to FBI custody (maybe even stage it) and Hannibal was then going to re-establish contact with Dolarhyde, trying to lure him to where he was, all under FBI surveilance, of course. So, no, there was supposed to be no attack during the transportation, and Hannibal was never going to be "set free" in any way. And I think this is the plan Will had to -to Dolarhyde he probably said he will talk FBI into transfering Hannibal, and will help Hannibal escape during the transportation, so that Dolarhyde can come and meet Hannibal. It is also why he told Jack they should tell the press he helped Hannibal escape, for authenticity purposes. What he is hiding is he alreay talked to Dolarhyde, probably because he figures Jack would oppose the plan then, or would insist on more protection for Will or something, and he didn't want Jack ruining his plans. Dolarhyde's attack on the way came out of nowhere... and I get that he made the convoy crash, and that can throw people off, but there were like 3-4 cars in that convoy, so around 8 agents, maybe (in the van carrying Hannibal alone there were at least 3 agents, including Will. might even be 4) . Doesn't look good that Dolarhyde can take them all out one by one. But on paper, the FBI plan wasn't necessarily putting the agents at any greater risk than they usually face in their line of duty, so I can see why it would get the OK. Hannibal being Hannibal and Will being Will, Jack should have been more weary I guess but wouldn't be the first time he got so obsessed with catching/killing a serial killer that he got blinders on. And Will's well being has never been his primary concern. Even in S1 he was fine with endangering Will and sacrificing him for the greater good.

 

 

ETA: Will's "cow" line felt like Will was saying "you tried to eat me! I am still angry about that Hannibal".Will knows he is now a "cow" as far as Hannibal is concerned.

 

 

Also, I find it AWESOME that when Will rejected Hannibal in episode 7, he anticipated Hannibal would  just surrender himself and was trying to manipulate him into doing so. Simply great. And apparently it was Hugh and Mads' idea. And the "it's beautiful" line was Hugh's idea too.

 

The drawings for Bedelia's leg scene that Fuller tweeted specifically says Hannibal cooked the leg, and Bedelia is actually getting a plate of oysters to eat. So he is back to marinating her. It doesn't mention Will, but Fuller also made a point to tweet the table has 3 chairs, and you can see the table is set for 3 people too, so I still assume it is Will. http://majesticaljeff.tumblr.com/image/127969952713

 

Some more interviews (actually will just post all the links I have open right now):

http://www.vulture.com/2015/08/bryan-fuller-hannibal-finale-campy-sensual.html?mid=googlenews

http://tvline.com/2015/08/29/hannibal-series-finale-will-lecter-cliff-bryan-fuller-interview-season-4/

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/hannibal-finale-season-4-movie-revival-ending-spoilers-1201581424/

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/08/29/hannibal-finale-hugh-dancy-postmortem-interview?hootPostID=748f4fa2f56078a3f1ddce94c027d6ea

http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/hannibal-creator-i-wanted-to-be-sure-we-had-an-ending-for-the-story/1

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/hannibal-series-finale-spoilers-bryan-817966

Edited August 30, 2015 by DeadlyEuphoric

[crowswork]

Cool moment at the end when Hannibal pulls will to his feet - right at the edge of the cliff - Mads looks back furtively for a second. (Maybe it was just an actor seeing how close to the edge they were) but it seems as if he just surrenders and relaxes. Will rests his head on Hannibal's chest, throws that arm around his neck that is half embrace and half hammerlock and over they go. Love death.

[DeadlyEuphoric]

Okay, but what happened to the Leeds family dog?!

 

Did Will have time to take to dog home to the rest of his pack? Is it still in a kennel somewhere wondering WTF is going on?

 

 

Speaking of dogs, if we ever get a continuation of this story I will be rooting for Winston to pull a Lassie and track Will and Hannibal down and appear at their door one morning!

[raven]

Well that was silly.

 

It's a little odd to me that I can appreciate good performances and the really unusual aspects of the show but still be distracted by the utter ridiculousness of the Plan:

The only ones who have any say in whether or not the cannibal/murderer is snuck out of prision are Will and Alana and Jack?? The inmates are truly running the asylum.  So sorry, nameless FBI guys!  You're toast because of this dumb plan.

 

The Will/Hannibal/Dolarhyde battle in slo-mo - I admit, I giggled a bit.  I watch too much gory stuff to be put off by blood flying, and the need to make it seem like a dance - like some other visuals the show has given us, just doesn't work for me.  IMO, he's trying SO HARD to show the brutality - Hannibal tears out Dolarhyde's throat with his teeth! and LOOK! Will LIKES killing! I just want to tell Fuller to relax about it all. 

 

I know the show is fantastical but really, when it needs to twist its characters so much in order to get to endgame, it's a bridge too far for me.  Sorry, Hannibal doesn't owe his escape to any twisted brilliance, but to the utter incompetence of those surrounding him.  I should have known where Fuller was taking this when he had Jack calmly watch wounded Hannibal so slllloowwly limp off in Italy.   It's a little disappointing that he felt the need to take the story in this direction to set up Hannibal the Hero.  I'd already resigned myself to Fuller not being able to resist having Will become like Hannibal.

 

As much as Richard Armitage gave a great performance, the storyline was wasted.  He ended up being right there and almost easy to find, all things considered, so why all the convolutions to catch him?  There were other ways to trick/trap him then to release Hannibal.  So much good story wasted on Bedelia and Chiyoh.

 

The Molly storyline was wasted as well; except that I hope she and the kid are taking care of the dogs or finding them good homes.  I guess I'm thankful we got the actress we did, because in one interview Fuller considered having her killed by Dolarhyde but changed his mind because of Nina Arianda.

 

As much as I enjoyed the performances, after reading some of the Fuller interviews, I doubt I would tune in if the show found a home or if a movie were made.  The things that Fuller loved most - Bedelia, his idea of what Will gets from his relationship with Hannibal, the Italy scenario (he talks about that being some of his favorite things to shoot) - are things that I either outright hated or perceived differently.  I'm neutral on Alana so...nice for her that she didn't get killed, though now she and her family have to hide, though their cage will be much nicer than Hannibal's.

 

Sorry to be a drag on the thread and I'm glad you all enjoyed it for the most part!  I did like the Price and Zeller scene and Chilton's was pretty great as well.  Good for him on getting to laugh, though I think Alana was...less compassionate then she should have been.  "You've never been comfortable in your own skin" to the guy with no lips and most of his skin burned off?  At least Chilton got the good last line to her about Hannibal's skin - "Are you?" 

 

The final scene with Bedelia - I just want to say again STOP pushing this character on me.  Cannot stand her, don't care about her leg or her dinner. 

 

Oh and the shots of the cliffs were beautiful, and Francis-as-dragon-with-wings was a great visual right before he collapsed.

Edited August 30, 2015 by raven

[Captanne]

This from Fuller's interview in the Vulture article from DeadlyEuphoric''s comprehensive list.

 

I found both of these responses fascinating.

 

 

 

How should the viewer read Will and Hannibal falling off the cliff together? Is it a double suicide?

No, I think it’s a murder/suicide. And then of course coming back in and seeing that someone has cut off Bedelia’s leg and is serving it, and she grabs a fork and hides it under her napkin to stab the neck of the person who’s going to come into the room next suggests that either Uncle Robertus and Lady Murasaki are going down Hannibal’s enemies list and checking them off, or that Hannibal may have survived that fall.

Some people have told me that their interpretation of it is that she sawed it off herself, cooked it up, and is waiting for him to come home like, “Honey, I made dinner!” [laughs], which is hilarious.

 

I read it as a double suicide where Will finally was able to find someone who he could be his whole self with and that now would be the time to end his self.
In that moment, we are playing off the idea that “If I don’t kill him, I’ll become him.” [Will is thinking], I didn’t kill Hannibal and I became him because together we hacked up this guy brutally, and I really got off on that. I could either keep doing that, or I could just pull the plug right now because I just became the thing that I was terrified of the most, and if I have to end myself to end him, fair enough.

 

From other responses -- particularly about sex ("Amyl Nitrate fueled high"?  Really, Bryan?  I don't want to know about your personal experiences.) -- I have determined I don't want to meet Bryan Fuller.  Ever.
 

ETA:  raven, I agree with a lot of what you said -- it just didn't seem to disappoint me as much.  I enjoyed it thoroughly.  God, I couldn't agree more about fucking Be.  Dee.  Lee.  Yah.  Please, Fuller, just fucking STOP with her.  Blech.  But, he couldn't and I took it with a grain of salt.  In the article I quoted above, he mentions how he loves Anderson's portrayal.  Sigh.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Captanne

[DeadlyEuphoric]

I think the books by Thomas Harris work because he wrote them in the 80's and 90's (maybe before?) before advances in technology were made.  In 1991, after Rodney King was beaten, people started buying video cameras, today folks have smart phones (think of all the incidents of police misconduct that have been recorded this year), and there are cameras everywhere, cameras you can't even see, not only that but there are drones everywhere these days.  So to me, the thought of Will and Hannibal just running around the world killing people makes zero sense and I suspended a lot of belief for this show, but I know there would have come a point where I would be like, "no fucking way," and turned off the TV.  

 

 

 

I think if Hannibal and Will are considered dead, they would be able to run around Europe, committing murders from time to time without anyone going "Hannibal is back". And they are both smart and knowledgable enough to make sure their murders are not easy to connect to one another (so the local police won't notice there is a serial killer around).

 

 

I figure if we had a S4 with Will and Hannibal together, the focus would be more about their relationship, than the many joint-murders they commit together. Actually I think there wouldn't be that many murders, they would be shown to be putting some strain on the relationship as Will continues to lack Hannibal's appetite, and he may initially have a Bedelia-like "not participating" stance with it. And with FBI starting to come after them and Hannibal trying to get Will to the next stage in his acceptance of his dark side (he is not rejecting it anymore come S3 finale, but he is not fully embracing it either, still conflicted, still has the impulse to save people) it can turn into a "can Will be saved?" season, I guess.

 

I do agree this being the "camera and internet" age does make it harder to believe FBI's most wanted could just walk around freely not even bothering to make some changes to his appearence. On the other hand, as I am writing this, I have absolutey no idea who is on FBI's most wanted list (so if Hannibal is not in USA, his chances of recognition are lower I'd say), or in my country's most wanted list,  and I can't even really remember or describe how the market owner down the street looks (admittedly don't shop there often, just 2-3 times in 5 years) and although we know some of our neighbors well, some others we barely ever see and I don't know them..  so I can imagine how a most wanted serial killer can continue to live among normal folk with no one necessarily realizing...  And as for FBI going through all the camera recordings looking for Hannibal and or Will, I think it is easier said than done. There are just too many recordings, and not enough time or people to go through it (if I remember right normally almost none of the surveilance vids ever get watched, so if Hannibal is being careful with surveilance cameras while committing the crime, him being caught in some random surveilance camera while grocery shopping somewhere far away from the crime scene won't mean anything). Unless the "face recognition" software one sees in CSIs and movies really work and does the job for one, though as far as I know, it doesn't really work that well and needs specific conditions and limited number of people to search through etc.. Most cameras don't even record that well, and are set to "rewrite" over their recordings everyday...  Many crimes caught on camera continue to go on wih the criminals not apprehended. So I can buy Hannibal continuing to commit crimes without being caught, especially as it has been at least 3 years since Hannibal the Cannibal had his 15 seconds of fame on TV reports... He is probably mostly forgotten by now, especially in foreign countries.  IF he is keeping a low enough profile and not trying to replace a very well known public figure etc, that is.

Edited August 30, 2015 by DeadlyEuphoric

[Black Knight]

I think Fuller's statements on how Gillian Anderson viewed the material - "out of all the actors, she was the one who knew what movie she was in" - are interesting.

 

Because one thing that has struck me over the course of this year is that GA has two serial-killer shows going on at the same time, and The Fall very explicitly does not glorify the serial killer. She has a great scene with Jamie Dornan in that series where you expect that he's going to pontificate about all the "insights" he has, and instead she just utterly demolishes him as nothing more than a pathetic misogynist who kills women. Hannibal is very different; Hannibal and Will are forever pontificating and assigning great meaning to all they do, and do basically glorify the experience of being a serial killer as being this beautiful, powerful thing. It was interesting to me that GA would choose to do two shows with such different approaches to the same type of material, and I've wondered if her choice to play this in a campy fashion was her way of undermining the glorification going on by Will and Hannibal (and Francis).

 

But then, GA's line deliveries never bothered me because I always had the impression that was merely an affect of Bedelia's and not the way she normally spoke. And that was shown to be the case in this episode because she dropped the affect in her scene with Will where she just is so blown away by what an utter fucking idiot he is that she can't muster the affect.

[raven]

 

ETA:  raven, I agree with a lot of what you said -- it just didn't seem to disappoint me as much.  I enjoyed it thoroughly.

Hey Captanne things is, I was expecting to enjoy it! I've been appreciating the show's arc since they got everyone back to the U.S.  It's not that I'm disappointed with what Fuller did with Will - I was kind of expecting it - it's just the way it was handled.  Will "drops the mic" - even Hannibal says so! and then negates that by coming right back because ? there's no other way ? and from there it just kind of went downhill story-wise for me.

 

So I'm not a total drag :) I will say that I really did enjoy MM's take on Hannibal.  Everyone was very good (even if the script called for them to be nonsensical) but Mads really did make Hannibal's skin his own (hee) and when he's on screen, it's difficult to look anywhere else.  And that's coming from someone who doesn't find the man attractive (from the neck up anyway).  Just really great stuff all around. 

 

Hugh Dancy's performance was right up there too plus he's so, so pretty to look at.  Raul Esparaza was obviously having a blast as Chilton and was fun to have around.  So there was lots of good to appreciate. 

 

 

From other responses -- particularly about sex ("Amyl Nitrate fueled high"?  Really, Bryan?  I don't want to know about your personal experiences.) -- I have determined I don't want to meet Bryan Fuller.  Ever.

Heh, that's the one I read where I'm thinking - oh he loves almost everything about the show I didn't (which makes sense, it's his vision after all).  He sure does have an interesting POV.

Edited August 30, 2015 by raven

[kechara]

So, I think in SotL, Will is mentioned to be an alcoholic, with a disfigured face, living alone and self destructing...is that right?

Season 4 was supposed to be primarily about Will's journey, according to BF I wonder where he would go with that.

[Captanne]

Gosh, I totally agree about Mikkelsen owning the role.  Also about his looks -- I don't find him all that attractive but his physique is amazing.  I picked right up on his dancing background.  He's got that ballet-trained poise and a barrel chest.  Which is, of course, what made the "snuggle" so enviable.  (Otherwise, it was almost cringeworthy.  I prefer "snuggle.")

 

And Dancy is SO fucking vulnerable.  Wow did he make a great Will Graham.  What he did for me was to drive home the sense that Hannibal is Will's dark spirit and Will knows it.  Manhunter's Will Graham didn't give me that.  Then again, Petersen only had a few minutes with Lecter whereas Dancy's was with him for three solid seasons.

 

Also, Chilton.  LOL

 

As for Fuller and his amyl nitrate infused sex high?  Good for him.  Whatever must they get up to out there in Hollyweird?  [clutches pearls]

 

ETA:  Kechara, I believe that's right.  But if Fuller gets a Series 4 and hurts Will's face I will (in Bedelia's cadence) hunt.  him.  down.  

Edited August 31, 2015 by Captanne