S07.E18: Rumble On The Runway

[racked]

When I first moved to NYC, I worked as an associate planner and IMO Heather's questions were reasonable and spot on. However, I do think at this point that she should know that all Sonja wanted was someone to show up and smile and tell her she's great. Sonja doesn't want real help she wants support in the form of approval.  Neither Heather or Bethenny are capable of giving that if it's not genuine, but Heather especially.  I still really like Heather, but at this point I think she knew Sonja's people were big frauds who wouldn't be able to answer even the simplest question related to business.  Sonja doesn't HAVE a real business here. She's got a fraud show. Just smile and nod and let her be happy in her delusionland. 

Edited August 6, 2015 by racked

[SweetieDarling]

I was just reading Kristen's blog and had to stop. When talking about her business she said, "For many, many years, I was a full-time mommy, so it's nice as the kids get older and are in school more to have my own thing."  Now, I realize that "many" is a relative term, but are her kids even in kindergarten yet?

 

 

 

[Duke2801]

I don't fault Heather for asking the question, but I can see how in the context of Heather's past with Sonja and her businesses, it could be viewed as Heather trying to further brand Sonja as delusional

 

 

Let's keep it one hundred.  Sonja needed not an ounce of help from Heather in that department. 

 

Further, Heather didn't ask any more pointed questions than Beth did when she attended that meeting with S and her crackpot team earlier in the season.  Was Bethenny skewered for trying to make S look stupid?  (maybe she was--I honestly don't remember!)

[Freckledbruh]

Let's keep it one hundred.  Sonja needed not an ounce of help from Heather in that department. 

 

Further, Heather didn't ask any more pointed questions than Beth did when she attended that meeting with S and her crackpot team earlier in the season.  Was Bethenny skewered for trying to make S look stupid?  (maybe she was--I honestly don't remember!)

I can't speak for anyone else but I definitely don't hold Heather more accountable than B.  Heck, I think B acted worse especially when you consider how many business failures she has under her belt.  Then again, I could be biased since I like Heather way more than B.

[ZaldamoWilder]

I was just reading Kristen's blog and had to stop. When talking about her business she said, "For many, many years, I was a full-time mommy, so it's nice as the kids get older and are in school more to have my own thing."  Now, I realize that "many" is a relative term, but are her kids even in kindergarten yet?

 

See, I was almost there with her but this is exactly how a HW who's teetering on the brink of likeability falls over the edge.  I don't wanna dissect every word that comes out of every one of their mouths.  But, :D  yeah, many, many = 5 years.  Her son is 5, daughter 2 or 3.  I'd also like to give her the benefit of the doubt that full time mommy is synonymous with stay at home mom.  Because what the hell is a part time mommy?   And just because this got on my nerves:  Full time nanny.

 

When you start a business with limited resources, no husband, daycare you have to take them to in a semi reliable car and a boss who can't relate, please get back to me.  

[abbottrabbit]

The quack guy saying there was no competition was what made Sonja look like a fool. What the fuckety fuck does that mean? Are the women who might buy Sonja's frocks currently wondering the street naked and with money to burn? Surely they are buying something? For the record jackass, those clothes they are currently wearing would be what is called "competition". The fact that Sonja talks about how brilliant these people are gives yet another glimpse into her delusional mind.

 

I personally have been wandering around starkers for the last 38 years because I couldn't find a pair of overpriced red drawstring tuxedo pants...  until now.

 

Sonja's shit ain't real.  I mean, the stuff clogging her pipes, besides random waterlogged Blackberries, is real.  But not the clothes.  Or the jewelry. 

 

She wasn't a model.  The Chanel shot is not a modeling shot taken on behalf of Chanel in order to sell Chanel.  She was a model in terms of taking down wangs and being amazing arm candy, not selling gardenia-based perfume and boucle jackets.  She did not have a modeling career.  She was not in a show at age 14 in upstate NY unless she was showing off Stella D'Oro packages in her local Wegman's.  There are entire boards and subthreads on places like The Fashion Spot highlighting the most obscure models of the 70s and 80s and 90s.  There are scans of LuAnn's work even, from back in the day.  Sonja was less of a model than Alex McCord.  There is actualy less to substantiate Sonja's claim.  I mean...damn.

 

 Every single damn thing you said, but especially this. 

 

[WireWrap]

When I first moved to NYC, I worked as an associate planner and IMO Heather's questions were reasonable and spot on. However, I do think at this point that she should know that all Sonja wanted was someone to show up and smile and tell her she's great. Sonja doesn't want real help she wants support in the form of approval.  Neither Heather or Bethenny are capable of giving that if it's not genuine, but Heather especially.  I still really like Heather, but at this point I think she knew Sonja's people were big frauds who wouldn't be able to answer even the simplest question related to business.  Sonja doesn't HAVE a real business here. She's got a fraud show. Just smile and nod and let her be happy in her delusionland. 

I don't know, smiling and nodding would make them, Heather/Bethenny, look like fools in business IMO. I think Sonja was hell bent on embarrassing Heather with help from Bethenny but she didn't realize that, although Bethenny and Heather are not friends, Bethenny really respects Heather as a business woman. Sonja blames Heather that everyone else was coming at her for her drunken out of control, black out behavior this season and this was to be pay back time for her. JMO

[atir]

ZM, what exaggeration about the dresses are you referring to? B said one dress was $500 & the other $485?

I loved the smackdown. R started a rumor about B's first marriage while B is going thru an ugly, bitter 2nd divorce. That rumor cauesd B to go thru more damage control. I'd be livid, too. I'd bring up all of R's transgressions while I had her in the hotseat.

[Freckledbruh]

 

I don't know, smiling and nodding would make them, Heather/Bethenny, look like fools in business IMO.

How?  Do you honestly think either of their business investors are watching this show?  If they are, do you honestly think them nodding and smiling is more detrimental than all of the other crazy, rude crap they have done on this show?  That just doesn't make sense to me.

[walnutqueen]

Ramona wants an older man with money. Like we all do. Can't blame her for that!

 

I'm pretty sure not all of us want an older man with money.  I've never considered age or financial status when choosing my previous partners.  Now I don't want a man at all.   :-)

 

I can, and do blame Ramona for being a rude bitch to the bartender.

[WireWrap]

How?  Do you honestly think either of their business investors are watching this show?  If they are, do you honestly think them nodding and smiling is more detrimental than all of the other crazy, rude crap they have done on this show?  That just doesn't make sense to me.

Yes, I honestly think sitting there smiling and nodding would have made them look foolish and clueless in business. We don't know if any of their business partners watch the show or not but it is always possible that they do watch. Public perception is also important, if they look like they know nothing business wise, why would anyone want to buy their products? I also don't think their soft ball questions were asked to embarrass Sonja or her team but were asked to give them an idea of what Sonja/team were looking for so they could help Sonja, after all, that is why they were there.....to help Sonja. They were not asked to wear their Team Sonja cheerleading outfits and bring their pompoms to the meeting. LOL She would have asked Ramona and Dorinda had that been the case and because Dorinda was there, she would have gotten past the editing monkeys. LOL

[shoegal]

I don't think that sitting and smiling and playing along in the model casting would have made Heather or Bethenny look stupid. It wasn't a business meeting, it was a model casting. They could have played along and come out fine, no harm no foul.

I do think that both Heather and Bethenny wanted to be useful, and because they both have legitimate brands, they also want to dig a little deeper to find out if Sonja has a legitimate business going on. I can see their probing as being both out of legitimate questioning and wanting to expose the fact that the emporer has no clothes.

Edited August 6, 2015 by shoegal

[Freckledbruh]

 

Yes, I honestly think sitting there smiling and nodding would have made them look foolish and clueless in business.

Well that just doesn't make sense to me at all.  Both have built successful businesses with high volume sales but somehow being nice to a cast mate will cause their house of cards to tumble?  Really?  On this show, B has pissed on a stick and in a bucket and yet it didn't stop her from getting a multi-million dollar deal with Jim Beam.  In what world does pissing on camera (twice!) is less detrimental to one's reputation than smiling and acting like a decent human being?

[ZaldamoWilder]

I don't know, smiling and nodding would make them, Heather/Bethenny, look like fools in business IMO. I think Sonja was hell bent on embarrassing Heather with help from Bethenny but she didn't realize that, although Bethenny and Heather are not friends, Bethenny really respects Heather as a business woman. Sonja blames Heather that everyone else was coming at her for her drunken out of control, black out behavior this season and this was to be pay back time for her. JMO

 

How?  Do you honestly think either of their business investors are watching this show?  If they are, do you honestly think them nodding and smiling is more detrimental than all of the other crazy, rude crap they have done on this show?  That just doesn't make sense to me.

 

Not to speak on WireWrap's behalf but I took this to mean that, no matter what one thinks of each of Bethenny and Heather, it's indisputable that they've launched successful, highly profitable businesses.   Something that's even more admirable when you consider the existing competition in each of their markets and that their product (B's case) is not necessarily the best of its categorical kind.   If we operate under the premise that from an entrepreneurial standpoint these are chicks who know or at least, learned, their shit, the failure to make basic inquires about marketing, placement and sales - something each of them has excelled at - would make them remiss.  Saying nothing is actually what would've made them terrible friends.  That's the part I think Sonja's an asshole for.  There are people with the experience and more importantly willingness to help her, contrived or not and she's insulted because they don't want to sign off on her dumbassery?  If anything Heather should be lauded for her efforts, the toaster oven was stupid as shit but she said (or was told) to help Sonja execute it anyway and even in the face of ridiculousness, offered genuine and useful advice.  The second time she does shows up to do the same thing and Sonja blasts her out, again?  I highly doubt their investors are watching, but if so, they should be impressed. 

[Freckledbruh]

 

Saying nothing is actually what would've made them terrible friends.

If they were trying to be good friends, then that would have been a discussion OFF CAMERA while on camera they would ask end customer oriented questions to give Sonja an opportunity to talk up her clothes.  Time and place and all that. 

[sistermagpie]

Not to speak on WireWrap's behalf but I took this to mean that, no matter what one thinks of each of Bethenny and Heather, it's indisputable that they've launched successful, highly profitable businesses.   Something that's even more admirable when you consider the existing competition in each of their markets and that their product (B's case) is not necessarily the best of its categorical kind.   If we operate under the premise that from an entrepreneurial standpoint these are chicks who know or at least, learned, their shit, the failure to make basic inquires about marketing, placement and sales - something each of them has excelled at - would make them remiss.

 

 

Also I could imagine that whether or not they'd feel it would be remiss not to say anything to protect Sonja, it's really hard for people to support stuff that goes against the basic logic of their profession. It's like if she brought her doctor friend along to a meeting with her homeopathic healer or their anti-vaxxer friend and the doctor was like "So what treatment is this that you're giving her?" and the person gave them answers like this, I think a lot of doctors would have totally sneered on camera about it too. It's hard to pretend to be a gullible, uninformed person--in fact you'd want to be totally on tape showing your contempt because you want to be on record at being completely against that.

[breezy424]

Sonja is still under the thumb of the bankruptcy Trustee and has to run all her business plans through the Trustee for approval.  So I am thinking, investors because of her past are guarded and she screwed up and has paid dearly for it-is she not entitled to ever have another endeavor. I am surprised Heather hasn't thrown that in her face, to get the upper hand.

 

I look at this way Sonja and the entire single cast have also been previously married with Bethenny, Sonja and Dorinda having been married twice before-should these women not be supportive if they find a new love?   What am I thinking Ramona and Kristen going after John.  Foolish to think you can just support a friend.

I didn't say anything about her not being entitled to another endeavor.  Sonja screwed up.  Yes, she paid for it.  That doesn't mean she has learned from her mistakes and now she's a business genius. 

 

What does Heather want the upper hand in?

 

Don't see the point of the analogy.  Sonja blew $7 million in a business deal.  I don't think a true friend would just blindly support her newest endeavors.  A true friend would ask questions because of her past screw up and her ramblings about Nigerian football team, etc., etc.  She's all over the place.  But to answer your analogy, a good friend would ask questions and if they had concerns, they should bring it up.  BTW, I don't Ro is a 'friend' to anyone and I wouldn't have considered Kris a friend of Dorinda's.

[ZaldamoWilder]

If they were trying to be good friends, then that would have been a discussion OFF CAMERA while on camera they would ask end customer oriented questions to give Sonja an opportunity to talk up her clothes.  Time and place and all that. 

 

On camera is where the discussion was taking place though.  

 

If they weren't friends, especially Heather, they wouldn'tve needed to come at all, let alone stay.  The larger point is she doesn't know what she's doing and I think the debate here is whether or not telling someone that makes them a friend or foe.  When people (with experience) told this to Bethenny, I think she heeded the advice.  She hated Martha Stewart but ole girl said this is not for you, she listened and moved on to her next hustle.  Personally, I'd love it if I had women in my camp who had my back like that and if it meant the possibility of embarrassment because it's happening on camera, then maybe I call the girls I knew were coming to the meeting and say ya'll can pull my collar when we're done shooting this scene but in the meantime just cheese and nod. 

[kassa]

Sonja's shit ain't real.  I mean, the stuff clogging her pipes, besides random waterlogged Blackberries, is real.  But not the clothes.  Or the jewelry.

 

 

Dying....

[ButterQueen]

If they were trying to be good friends, then that would have been a discussion OFF CAMERA while on camera they would ask end customer oriented questions to give Sonja an opportunity to talk up her clothes.  Time and place and all that.

Let's be real, they aren't real friends; they are HW's and the show was the time and place.

[shoegal]

Not to speak on WireWrap's behalf but I took this to mean that, no matter what one thinks of each of Bethenny and Heather, it's indisputable that they've launched successful, highly profitable businesses.   Something that's even more admirable when you consider the existing competition in each of their markets and that their product (B's case) is not necessarily the best of its categorical kind.   If we operate under the premise that from an entrepreneurial standpoint these are chicks who know or at least, learned, their shit, the failure to make basic inquires about marketing, placement and sales - something each of them has excelled at - would make them remiss.  Saying nothing is actually what would've made them terrible friends.  That's the part I think Sonja's an asshole for.  There are people with the experience and more importantly willingness to help her, contrived or not and she's insulted because they don't want to sign off on her dumbassery?  If anything Heather should be lauded for her efforts, the toaster oven was stupid as shit but she said (or was told) to help Sonja execute it anyway and even in the face of ridiculousness, offered genuine and useful advice.  The second time she does shows up to do the same thing and Sonja blasts her out, again?  I highly doubt their investors are watching, but if so, they should be impressed.

I would agree if this was a strategy meeting for marketing or sales, but it wasn't. It was a model casting. Nodding along with this girl yes, that girl no would not endanger Heather or Bethenny's reputation as businesswomen. This was fluff, they didn't have to get into the business strategy.

[WireWrap]

Well that just doesn't make sense to me at all.  Both have built successful businesses with high volume sales but somehow being nice to a cast mate will cause their house of cards to tumble?  Really?  On this show, B has pissed on a stick and in a bucket and yet it didn't stop her from getting a multi-million dollar deal with Jim Beam.  In what world does pissing on camera (twice!) is less detrimental to one's reputation than smiling and acting like a decent human being?

How could they have helped Sonja pick models without knowing or seeing the clothes to begin with? How? There were no clothes or drawings of the clothes to get an idea of what Sonja was looking for so they asked basic questions to help them understand the line. Basic questions that Sonja and her team could not or would not answer and it is all Heather's/Bethenny's fault? They didn't ask these questions to make anyone look foolish but to gather information so that they could help. Again, if Sonja only wanted a cheerleading squad, she should have asked Ramona and Dorinda, not real business women who took helping Sonja serious. Really, shame, SHAME, on Heather and Bethenny for really wanting to help, like Sonja asked them to do. LOL

 

The peeing thing (gross) with Bethenny happened after the JB deal was already in the works and her HW personality/exposure is a big reason she got the contract to begin with. Heather's line was already successful before she joined the show and she doesn't need to rely on her HW personality to keep it going IMO.

[WireWrap]

If they were trying to be good friends, then that would have been a discussion OFF CAMERA while on camera they would ask end customer oriented questions to give Sonja an opportunity to talk up her clothes.  Time and place and all that. 

 How do they find out what Sonja needs, model wise, and help her without asking questions and then how do they do it "off camera" during filming? They know that had they asked Sonja to step out of the room so they could have a word with her the cameras and sound boom would have followed them to wherever they went to record them. If Sonja only wanted "yes women" nodding in agreement, then why didn't she tell them via phone or text this before they went to the meeting? Again, shame, SHAME on Heather and Bethenny for taking Sonja's request for their help seriously! LOL

[ZaldamoWilder]

I would agree if this was a strategy meeting for marketing or sales, but it wasn't. It was a model casting. Nodding along with this girl yes, that girl no would not endanger Heather or Bethenny's reputation as businesswomen. This was fluff, they didn't have to get into the business strategy.

 

Totally willing to buy this with the caveat that only production knew it was a model casting.  There's no way to explain B and H having simultaneous and identical responses to the Empress having no clothes (I'm sorry I don't remember whom to credit upthread for that but it's brilliant, consider it ripped off).   So if I'm invited to a meeting that I think is about business and the only other person in the room I know is another one of my castmates who is also her own businesswoman and the remaining people in the room are my 3rd castmate's *business associates* then it's fair to say it's a business meeting (to me).  I don't know that I've been punked until we're arguing about models. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

Sonja's business is illusory.  It's not real.  The party was real.  The time lag in staging the second looks was real.  Ramona's shiny red foobs and flushed faced and attempted derailing of Bethenny's brilliant, focused read (do not make me love you, Frankel!  Don't do it!) was very real, and a very big fail.  An actual highly successful fashion designer/businessman presented his very real presentation, Elie Tahari, and the nail polish on his model's nails is also real, since you can buy it online and in person at Rickys -- kadooz to Kristen, who kept it real, and didn't indulge on camera in meetings with people who are little flitting shadows on LinkedIn.  Kristen also collaborated with a jeweler to sell pieces averaging around $200 on her and the designer's site.  Some items are sold out.  That's real.

 

Sonja's shit ain't real.  I mean, the stuff clogging her pipes, besides random waterlogged Blackberries, is real.  But not the clothes.  Or the jewelry. 

 

She wasn't a model.  The Chanel shot is not a modeling shot taken on behalf of Chanel in order to sell Chanel.  She was a model in terms of taking down wangs and being amazing arm candy, not selling gardenia-based perfume and boucle jackets.  She did not have a modeling career.  She was not in a show at age 14 in upstate NY unless she was showing off Stella D'Oro packages in her local Wegman's.  There are entire boards and subthreads on places like The Fashion Spot highlighting the most obscure models of the 70s and 80s and 90s.  There are scans of LuAnn's work even, from back in the day.  Sonja was less of a model than Alex McCord.  There is actualy less to substantiate Sonja's claim.  I mean...damn.

 

I am pretty flummoxed by how Heather and Bethenny asking completely standard questions was some kind of unsupportive massive takedown.  But honestly, the only way to be Sonja's friend is to be like that snitty, stupid swami fraudster, and tell her that another successful line (LuAnn's - which was sold, and where 'sold out' indicates things were once available and are now sold out) was 'too schlumpy' for Sonja and her Sharpie'd Prada bowling bag from back in the day.  Sure thing.  Heather and Bethenny didn't join this show to seem like they have no clue about how one might run a business.  They just didn't.  Neither did Sonja.  Why are they obliged to just nod and smile?  And thanks to those pointing out that the idea that Sonja is simply supportive is simply a suppurating lie.  Nope!  She is a catty g.d. mess and has been snarky and see you on the day after Monday-ish about LuAnn and Heather in particular.  On camera.  Which we know is a capital crime...off with Heather's head!

 

*Unlike my friend, I am 'po, and my own closet is full to bursting with Closet Freak by Lisa Wu, thanksverymuch, so I didn't attempt to pay for a 4-figure dress to figure out if I have a Ralph Lauren or a Versace body (<-- The Sonja Scale has now replaced other kinds of measurement tools like BMI calculators on NIH's site.  "Are you Armani or Dolce and Gabbana?")

 

Thank you for weeding thru all the poo that comes out of Sonja's mouth.  It sure as fuck ain't easy to keep up with all of Sonja's bullshit & babble.  It's gotten to a point for me, with Sonja, that I just assume everything she says is bullshit, nonsense & babble.  Kinda similar to how I felt about Gretchen.  There may be some truth mixed in with what they constantly babble, but it's way too exhausting, tiring & draining to figure it out.  Ah, but if you think of Sonja's babble, bullshit & nonsense as entertaining, then she can be pretty enjoyable & actually funny to watch.

[OhGromit]

Apparently, there were buyers there from major department stores, in spite of Heather's claims that she didn't see any of them.  

 

Sonja herself also noted the buyers weren't there, before Heather did.  

[shoegal]

Totally willing to buy this with the caveat that only production knew it was a model casting.  There's no way to explain B and H having simultaneous and identical responses to the Empress having no clothes (I'm sorry I don't remember whom to credit upthread for that but it's brilliant, consider it ripped off).   So if I'm invited to a meeting that I think is about business and the only other person in the room I know is another one of my castmates who is also her own businesswoman and the remaining people in the room are my 3rd castmate's *business associates* then it's fair to say it's a business meeting (to me).  I don't know that I've been punked until we're arguing about models.

Intitially, yes, it seems Heather and Bethenny thought it was some sort of business meeting, but once they got there it was established that it was a model casting. My point is only that since it was a model casting and not a business meeting, it doesn't reflect badly on Heather and Bethenny to just nod and smile and play along. However, I do understand Heather and Bethenny wanting to feel useful and productive.

I think that Heather and Bethenny both come from a place of wanting to help and wanting to expose Sonja's business as a sham. I do think Bethenny leans more toward wanting to help and Heather more towards exposing the sham given their history. Frankly, I am surprised that Sonja included Heather at all (maybe prodded by production?).

[escatefromny]

I'm not sure if John's panic over Dorinda not answering her phone was sweet or weird. It's probably both, and Dorinda seemed to take it in stride. More power to her, I guess.

I vote for weird. Extremely weird, controlling and child like. So she forgot to call you when she arrived (or she ran out of battery, or she forgot to activate roaming). Was there a big news story about goings on in London that concerned you - plane crash, IRA bomb, toxic gas leak in Mayfair - no? So what's the big deal. When you called the hotel, asked for her room and (presumably) were told she made a do not disturb request were you satisfied to know that she arrived and checked in? No, you went full on psycho and asked the security staff to wake her at 5:00 a.m. .... and for what?? Not to confirm she arrived (you obviously knew that) but to basically bust her balls for not calling. WTF?!?! Sorry, for me this type of red flag would have resulted in immediate break up. I don't think there was anything sweet about it or about John's insecurities and need for attention and control. Yuck!

[WireWrap]

Intitially, yes, it seems Heather and Bethenny thought it was some sort of business meeting, but once they got there it was established that it was a model casting. My point is only that since it was a model casting and not a business meeting, it doesn't reflect badly on Heather and Bethenny to just nod and smile and play along. However, I do understand Heather and Bethenny wanting to feel useful and productive.

I think that Heather and Bethenny both come from a place of wanting to help and wanting to expose Sonja's business as a sham. I do think Bethenny leans more toward wanting to help and Heather more towards exposing the sham given their history. Frankly, I am surprised that Sonja included Heather at all (maybe prodded by production?).

I don't think Heather wanted to do anything other than to help Sonja as she was asked to do. I really believe that Heather was sincere when she apologized to Sonja in T&C and only wanted to help her in any way she could. It is on Sonja for not telling Heather/Bethenny what she expected of them before this meeting took place no matter who set it up to begin with, her or production. I also think that had Heather and Bethenny just smiled and nodded this scene would have never made it past the editing monkeys and would have been cut and, IMO, Sonja was fully aware of that hence her not telling H/B before hand.

[imjagain]

I vote for weird. Extremely weird, controlling and child like. So she forgot to call you when she arrived (or she ran out of battery, or she forgot to activate roaming). Was there a big news story about goings on in London that concerned you - plane crash, IRA bomb, toxic gas leak in Mayfair - no? So what's the big deal. When you called the hotel, asked for her room and (presumably) were told she made a do not disturb request were you satisfied to know that she arrived and checked in? No, you went full on psycho and asked the security staff to wake her at 5:00 a.m. .... and for what?? Not to confirm she arrived (you obviously knew that) but to basically bust her balls for not calling. WTF?!?! Sorry, for me this type of red flag would have resulted in immediate break up. I don't think there was anything sweet about it or about John's insecurities and need for attention and control. Yuck!

I agree with this, very weird.

I can't stand Dorinda and think she has been rude and nasty to John, but that is beyond weird. He knew she arrived and was sleeping and he had the hotel staff wake her, what a jerk. I would be pissed.

Eta:

Is it common for hotels to inform callers if some is staying there?

I only ask because, my daughter recently moved to California. She stayed in a hotel for about 5 days till her apartment was ready. I had received a call from the moving company with some questions and they couldn't reach her. Of course her phone was off or dead. So I called the hotel and asked for her room, I didn't know the number or whatever. They told me they couldn't tell if she was staying there or not.

She called about an hour later, I told her to charge her damn phone. :)

Eta: nevermind, obviously John knew the info about her room.

Edited August 6, 2015 by imjagain

[talula]

Re: Sonja's model selection meeting IMO

She said she had previously picked out her models, I suppose from photos. Now she was finalizing her selection in the flesh. She did not need anyone to help...she wanted her cast mates along purely as eye candy to show the RHONY audience she's legit. Look at me I'm a big wheeler/dealer NY fashion designer...here's my staff, my models and my successful business acquaintances.

The producers decided to film the event and give underdog Sonja, a pre-fashion show package, knowing full well Bethenny and Heather would not play deaf, dumb and blind to the situation. The audience was set-up once again, to either defend a dejected Sonja or defend Bethenny/Heather in the segment.

Edited August 6, 2015 by talula

[Pattycake2]

What I've gotten out of all of this is - There aren't really any clothes.  It was either an exploratory thing to see if Sonja's name could actually sell clothes on line or a money laundering scheme.  And Lady Morgan just might go there considering her unstable fraudulent business background.  Heather and Bethenney were not told it was a model selection meeting so that the camera could catch their reactions.  If they had just nodded and smiled, the scene would have been edited out.  Bethenney went after Ramona on purpose either for personal or producer-driven reason.  Look, we're both wearing similar hemlines! didn't trigger it. Look, we're both wearing blue!  Look, we both have legs!  Whatever.

[BettyPoz]

If they were trying to be good friends, then that would have been a discussion OFF CAMERA while on camera they would ask end customer oriented questions to give Sonja an opportunity to talk up her clothes.  Time and place and all that. 

Nodding and smiling on camera when production would KNOW they were faking it would only lead to Talking Heads that would cause heads to explode here.

[Rahul]

I said before that I wondered if Sonja was money laundering. I feel certain she is now. I can see many many many bundles of money being passed through that website. And the same person waiting on the other side of the website catching it as it comes. And not nary a complaint about the dresses that never show up.

 

Wow, you really took it home. I realized that Sonja doesn't want customers placing actual orders due to the insanely high price point for pre-sized clothes, but it never occurred to me her website could be a money laundering front. 

 

Do we have another Housewives scandal and potential incarceration on the horizon?

Edited August 6, 2015 by Rahul

[ScoobieDoobs]

What I've gotten out of all of this is - There aren't really any clothes.  It was either an exploratory thing to see if Sonja's name could actually sell clothes on line or a money laundering scheme.  And Lady Morgan just might go there considering her unstable fraudulent business background. 

 

Hey look, I'm with you, but here's the site-

 

http://www.sonjamorgannewyork.com/

 

It seems to be up & running & you can supposedly order stuff.  Will anything actually be shipped?  Who knows?  I'm still skeptical of those suspicious characters who are running this thing.

[zoeysmom]

What I've gotten out of all of this is - There aren't really any clothes.  It was either an exploratory thing to see if Sonja's name could actually sell clothes on line or a money laundering scheme.  And Lady Morgan just might go there considering her unstable fraudulent business background.  Heather and Bethenney were not told it was a model selection meeting so that the camera could catch their reactions.  If they had just nodded and smiled, the scene would have been edited out.  Bethenney went after Ramona on purpose either for personal or producer-driven reason.  Look, we're both wearing similar hemlines! didn't trigger it. Look, we're both wearing blue!  Look, we both have legs!  Whatever.

This has Sonja explaining her business plan:  http://www.bravotv.com/watch-what-happens-live/season-12/episode-12129/videos?clip=2888383  SHe is starting small and hoping to get into stores in LA, NY, London and Dubai-they have opened a Fatburger in Dubai-rich people who want American items.  Sonja also claims to have a new fall line.

 

Sonja is doing any money laundering-ridiculous she under the thumb of the BK trustee until her case is complete.  She has to get approval to borrow money and to spend over a certain amount.  So any money in and any money out is included in reports filed by her.  The idea behind money laundering is you have income from illegal sources and you run it through a legitimate business.  I don't think Sonja has any money to launder and even the dumbest of criminals-at the Giudice level, would not launder with the BK Trustee on the case.  Sonja is pretty forthcoming in her answers.  She knows she had to start small and she hopes to get into $29.95-$69.95 the reasonable price market but small steps--even Andy said good for you.  I am betting her first California contact will be Kyle's store.

[WireWrap]

This has Sonja explaining her business plan:  http://www.bravotv.com/watch-what-happens-live/season-12/episode-12129/videos?clip=2888383  SHe is starting small and hoping to get into stores in LA, NY, London and Dubai-they have opened a Fatburger in Dubai-rich people who want American items.  Sonja also claims to have a new fall line.

 

Sonja is doing any money laundering-ridiculous she under the thumb of the BK trustee until her case is complete.  She has to get approval to borrow money and to spend over a certain amount.  So any money in and any money out is included in reports filed by her.  The idea behind money laundering is you have income from illegal sources and you run it through a legitimate business.  I don't think Sonja has any money to launder and even the dumbest of criminals-at the Giudice level, would not launder with the BK Trustee on the case.  Sonja is pretty forthcoming in her answers.  She knows she had to start small and she hopes to get into $29.95-$69.95 the reasonable price market but small steps--even Andy said good for you.  I am betting her first California contact will be Kyle's store.

I don't know anything about money laundering, so I don't know if they, investors or any business "partners", would be able to get past a BK Court, especially if Sonja did not have to invest a penny in the line and I don't think she did as she is broke. Her talk about her plans for the future sound just like her talk about her TO and the plethora of TO products/cookbooks, it is the same rhetoric/gobbly gook now as then. Maybe when I hear/read that customers are actually getting the items/clothes they bought off of her website and that they are pleased with what they got, I can begin to take her serious, until then, it is the same ole same ole chatter from Sonja that never goes anywhere.

[racked]

What I've gotten out of all of this is - There aren't really any clothes.  It was either an exploratory thing to see if Sonja's name could actually sell clothes on line or a money laundering scheme.  And Lady Morgan just might go there considering her unstable fraudulent business background.  Heather and Bethenney were not told it was a model selection meeting so that the camera could catch their reactions.  If they had just nodded and smiled, the scene would have been edited out.  Bethenney went after Ramona on purpose either for personal or producer-driven reason.  Look, we're both wearing similar hemlines! didn't trigger it. Look, we're both wearing blue!  Look, we both have legs!  Whatever.

 

 

That actually makes a lot of sense. This just seems so obviously not a genuine business venture to me, at least not with the people Sonja had at that meeting. It's comical and makes good tv, but it makes me feel better to believe Sonja isn't really taking it too seriously because if she is, that's just sad. 

 

I'm surprised Heather went at all. The way Sonja treated her after toastergate, it seemed pretty clear she does not want Heather's help and does not consider her a friend. 

[Eliz]

How do they find out what Sonja needs, model wise, and help her without asking questions and then how do they do it "off camera" during filming? They know that had they asked Sonja to step out of the room so they could have a word with her the cameras and sound boom would have followed them to wherever they went to record them. If Sonja only wanted "yes women" nodding in agreement, then why didn't she tell them via phone or text this before they went to the meeting? Again, shame, SHAME on Heather and Bethenny for taking Sonja's request for their help seriously! LOL

Especially when Sonja showed up late to the meeting! You want to have an off-camera chit-chat, get there before the cameras are rolling, sister.

With all the back-and-forth that's gone on in this discussion board, it seems like we've lost track of the fact that all Heather askedwas essentially, "Sonja, I've never seen your clothes and I don't know what they look like. What are they like?" She phrased it differently, but "who do you hang with" was just a different way of saying "what's the vibe of your collection, give me an idea of what it's like by comparing it to something I know." All this talk about marketing strategy and comparing maps of specific high-end retailers seems, in my opinion, to be missing the point. The TERRIBLY UNSUPPORTIVE, UNDERMINING, FRENEMY thing that Heather did was just ask Sonja and her team to describe the clothes a little so she would have some idea in mind of what the models would be wearing. Sonja had rejected the first model as not looking right for her clothes, so to ask what those clothes are like seems perfectly reasonable -- oh, you're going for a certain look, what is that look? The fact that such a basic, innocent question ended up making Sonja & Co look foolish because they couldn't answer it is not the fault of the person who asked the question.

The other TERRIBLE thing that was done to Sonja in that meeting was Bethenny telling her not to reject the models while the models were still in the room. Which is basically the same thing as telling Ramona not to say "he's a bartender" in front of the bartender. Don't be rude to people's faces. That's just basic human decency, and I sure wouldn't want to sit next to my friend and nod along as she was being that rude.

[TV Diva Queen]

I also heard $500 and $485.  

LOL, I'm going to beat the dead horse.  I have a similar speaking style as Bethany and we use the same intonations.  

 

So, all morning, I've been saying out loud, to myself, "45".  and to the naked ear, its sounds like 485.  I'm sticking with my $4500.  $485 is such a random number to recall for how much a dress costs.  

[LotusFlower]

Totally willing to buy this with the caveat that only production knew it was a model casting.  There's no way to explain B and H having simultaneous and identical responses to the Empress having no clothes (I'm sorry I don't remember whom to credit upthread for that but it's brilliant, consider it ripped off).   So if I'm invited to a meeting that I think is about business and the only other person in the room I know is another one of my castmates who is also her own businesswoman and the remaining people in the room are my 3rd castmate's *business associates* then it's fair to say it's a business meeting (to me).  I don't know that I've been punked until we're arguing about models.

What I've gotten out of all of this is - There aren't really any clothes.

I was at least one of the folks who used the "Empress isn't wearing any clothes" line, but I have to give credit to Heather, who said it on the show, and it's so important to the tale of Lady Morgan, and this long discussion we're having here. There are no clothes. There is no fashion line. She managed to stitch a few together and throw a party, but that's it. There were no buyers. The website is a cover. No one is buying, and those that tried have not received anything. It's all a ruse. And here's the thing - everyone knows it. That's why Andy keeps asking Sonja pointed questions - where can one buy the clothes, in the same way he used to ask (rib) Sheree for updates on Chateau Sheree. The Empress isn't wearing any clothes, and Heather and Bethenny and Andy and everyone else are either going to let her walk naked through the streets, or tell her.

[shoegal]

LOL, I'm going to beat the dead horse. I have a similar speaking style as Bethany and we use the same intonations.

So, all morning, I've been saying out loud, to myself, "45". and to the naked ear, its sounds like 485. I'm sticking with my $4500. $485 is such a random number to recall for how much a dress costs.

Bethenny said it was a Milly dress, which would be $485 not $4500. If you rewatch, Bethenny says 485, with the emphasis on the four and the five. I thought she said 45 at first, but on rewatch was able to hear the 485. Edited August 6, 2015 by shoegal

[breezy424]

OK - after reading the thread, I did a quick check on Sonja's website.  SonjaMorganNewYork.com was registered on Nov 9, 2014 by House of Fashion, 1410 broadway suite 301.  House of Fashion is part of Jeetish Imports which is at the same address.  Jeetish Imports does a couple of women's clothes lines plus private label.

 

http://sonjamorgannewyork.com.ipaddress.com/

 

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/aj-bindra/2b/826/9b6

 

I really couldn't find anything on Sonja's CEO, Gaurav Aggawal.  But it does seem that Jeetish is a legit business.  I don't believe that Gaurav and the other Sonja Morgan Brands employees work for Sonja fulltime and wonder if there is an actual company Sonja Morgan Brands.

[Rahul]

LOL, I'm going to beat the dead horse.  I have a similar speaking style as Bethany and we use the same intonations.  

 

So, all morning, I've been saying out loud, to myself, "45".  and to the naked ear, its sounds like 485.  I'm sticking with my $4500.  $485 is such a random number to recall for how much a dress costs.  

 

I had the captions turned on. Bethenny definitely said $485, and it was captioned as such.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

'The Empress Has Clothes! Very Nice Clothes!' / Not even a runaway boob can stop Sonja from finally launching her international luxury lifestyle brand.

[zoeysmom]

I didn't say anything about her not being entitled to another endeavor.  Sonja screwed up.  Yes, she paid for it.  That doesn't mean she has learned from her mistakes and now she's a business genius. 

 

What does Heather want the upper hand in?

 

Don't see the point of the analogy.  Sonja blew $7 million in a business deal.  I don't think a true friend would just blindly support her newest endeavors.  A true friend would ask questions because of her past screw up and her ramblings about Nigerian football team, etc., etc.  She's all over the place.  But to answer your analogy, a good friend would ask questions and if they had concerns, they should bring it up.  BTW, I don't Ro is a 'friend' to anyone and I wouldn't have considered Kris a friend of Dorinda's.

It really isn't a friend or acquaintance's place to gauge if another has learned from her mistake.  That is a little too judgmental even for these broads.  I guess I am different, with a BK trustee involved, hired staff, and the show just a couple of days away I just don't think that either Bethenny or Heather needed to knock her or show off.  Bethenny or Heather were not supportive.  Jokes can be funny and they can also hurt.  Sonja made mention of Heather, Kristen and  Carole laughing at her expense.  The level of support requested was attend a meeting and attend a fashion both endeavors they were paid to do.  Sonja wasn't asking for money, she was asking for input in model selection.

 

Heather has said she should have stopped asking questions and just watched.http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-7/blogs/heather-thomson/heather-i-really-wasnt-sure-what If Heather could not pick up the style from the descriptions heritage and traditional and seeing one of Sonja's gowns then she should not have asked questions.  Sonja described the body type  the models needed.  The weren't be asked to decorate the venue, simply pick models.

 

Bethenny more so than Heather just think she is way too funny.   Mocking people in front of the camera and their boss is tacky.  I wonder what would have happened if Sonja's staff would have walked out of her? Would it have been worth the one-liner? Was Bethenny prepared to step in and take over?  Bethenny continues to yuck up about it-Heather has taken a different approach in her blog.

[BeachyMum]

I am starting to think  Beth bringing up her laundry list of complaints to Ramona at the fashion show was a way to make sure Ramona couldn't leave when she dropped her big secret -Beth and Kasey know each other.  Beth said this a few times to her and I kinda think it was below the belt and planned all along.  Could you imagine if Ramona spoke about Beth's current situation? She would have freaked the F out. JMO

[stinkogingko]

This has Sonja explaining her business plan: http://www.bravotv.com/watch-what-happens-live/season-12/episode-12129/videos?clip=2888383 SHe is starting small and hoping to get into stores in LA, NY, London and Dubai-they have opened a Fatburger in Dubai-rich people who want American items. Sonja also claims to have a new fall line.

Sonja is doing any money laundering-ridiculous she under the thumb of the BK trustee until her case is complete. She has to get approval to borrow money and to spend over a certain amount. So any money in and any money out is included in reports filed by her. The idea behind money laundering is you have income from illegal sources and you run it through a legitimate business. I don't think Sonja has any money to launder and even the dumbest of criminals-at the Giudice level, would not launder with the BK Trustee on the case. Sonja is pretty forthcoming in her answers. She knows she had to start small and she hopes to get into $29.95-$69.95 the reasonable price market but small steps--even Andy said good for you. I am betting her first California contact will be Kyle's store.

Given Sonja's adventures in the movie business, it's not unreasonable to presume she's a grifter and a little offshore money laundering won't alarm her unduly, as long as her cut gets delivered cleanly. The bankruptcy trustee's primary job is to see that she doesn't waste or conceal assets, and I suspect the value of her name is a difficult asset for even an experienced trustee to evaluate. Sonja could bat her eyelashes and claim innocence.

On the other hand if you wanted to be charitable, you could conclude that Sonja's business acumen wouldn't fill a thimble, and that her habit of wishful thinking could leave her open to any sort of flimflam. Such as that swami, or an alleged rag merchant. In which case searching questions would be even more necessary.

I still wonder what happened to the deal with the shirt maker. And the Nigerian football club!

Edited August 6, 2015 by stinkogingko

[MMLEsq]

I vote for weird. Extremely weird, controlling and child like. So she forgot to call you when she arrived (or she ran out of battery, or she forgot to activate roaming). Was there a big news story about goings on in London that concerned you - plane crash, IRA bomb, toxic gas leak in Mayfair - no? So what's the big deal. When you called the hotel, asked for her room and (presumably) were told she made a do not disturb request were you satisfied to know that she arrived and checked in? No, you went full on psycho and asked the security staff to wake her at 5:00 a.m. .... and for what?? Not to confirm she arrived (you obviously knew that) but to basically bust her balls for not calling. WTF?!?! Sorry, for me this type of red flag would have resulted in immediate break up. I don't think there was anything sweet about it or about John's insecurities and need for attention and control. Yuck!

Different take on it, just for argument's sake:  While watching, I assumed John was concerned because Dorinda was very emotional about going back to London for the first time.  She's clearly not as far along with her grief as Carole is -- Carole said as much -- and my first thought was that John was worried that she had actually done something to herself....taken pills or something.  

[AnnaMayWong]

Not to speak on WireWrap's behalf but I took this to mean that, no matter what one thinks of each of Bethenny and Heather, it's indisputable that they've launched successful, highly profitable businesses. Something that's even more admirable when you consider the existing competition in each of their markets and that their product (B's case) is not necessarily the best of its categorical kind. If we operate under the premise that from an entrepreneurial standpoint these are chicks who know or at least, learned, their shit, the failure to make basic inquires about marketing, placement and sales - something each of them has excelled at - would make them remiss. Saying nothing is actually what would've made them terrible friends. That's the part I think Sonja's an asshole for. There are people with the experience and more importantly willingness to help her, contrived or not and she's insulted because they don't want to sign off on her dumbassery? If anything Heather should be lauded for her efforts, the toaster oven was stupid as shit but she said (or was told) to help Sonja execute it anyway and even in the face of ridiculousness, offered genuine and useful advice. The second time she does shows up to do the same thing and Sonja blasts her out, again? I highly doubt their investors are watching, but if so, they should be impressed.

STANDING OVATION!! (and with courteous bow as an added bonus!). Edited August 6, 2015 by BookElitist