S02.E03: Maybe Tomorrow

[benteen]

Agreed that the repressed homosexuality storyline is overplayed and I hope there's more to Paul's story than just that.  Blackmailing him for being gay, in California of all states, would be ridiculous.

[ToastnBacon]

 

So are we supposed to think that the driver who quit stole the Cadillac?  Is it just too convenient that it was down the street from his house?

 

I was thinking that the killer torched the car near the ex-transpo driver's house to implicate him, he just got unlucky that Ray and Ani were there at the same time.

That also points to the killer having knowledge of what goes on at the movie set.

The mayor's house and all those portraits of himself reminded me of Sadaam Hussien. I also think that the mayor isn't really in control of what is going on with the scam in Vinci.

It was really strange how the Chief of Police was ignoring his ranting when they had Ray in the office.

If he once was in control, it has slipped out his hands because he seems delusional about the State DA being placated by their cut of the money.

[islandgal140]

Who da fuck is Stan?!? The guy at the construction site was named Bart. At least that is what VV called him.  I know cause I had the close captioning on. 

 

I swear if it wasn't for it being the dead of summer with not much other Sunday programming I am interested in, a decent female lead in the form of Rachel Adams, Colin 'breakfast, lunch and dinner' Farrell and some of the good will last season's True Detective had built up with me I wonder if I would even still be watching. I am just not finding the show or the mystery compelling. I don't care that VV got robbed for millions and some one is out to get him. I don't care about the corrupt town and mayor of Vinci. Stan who? Caspere who? I double don't give a damn about about VV's sperm motility and wife. Really show? 

 

Colin's character gives me such feels especially with regards to his son. On the one hand, I don't blame his mother for not wanting the boy around him unsupervised. But on the other, he does clearly love him and damn it takes a special something to love him so unabashedly knowing he isn't his and is a product of rape but yeah, dude is not a good dad and they should do what is best for the boy.

 

I haven't much complained about the dialogue on this show. It has been WTF worth in some respects but it hasn't really bothered me until last night. That conversation between Vince Vaughn and his henchman/bodyguard after that Russian left had a small but for some reason the most annoying exchange I have ever heard strung together in a sentence. VV asked: 

 

Shouldn't a reasonable man infer from Osip's arrival and departure and fucking failure to make good on our terms as being connected not just to Caspere but prefiguring Caspere? In a casual sense. I'm saying, do you think that Osip could've done Caspere"

 

 

Who da fuck talks like this?!!? I don't know why but this exchange just bothered the ever-loving hell out of me. In the real world, a regular thug/wannabe kingpin would have just used the last sentence.

 

Which brings me to the next problem. Again, VV in this role not working for me and it is not as if I have a problem with him playing a bad guy. It is the type of bad guy he is playing that I ain't buying. I could buy him as some Wall Street Gordon Gecko type no problem. However, as some started from the bottom, basement rat battling, giving beat downs with my own two hands, shaking down all manner of bigwigs for protection money and on the cusp of legitimacy? Just nope! 

 

Okay so the guy who shot CF with the riot rounds was wearing the bird mask and presumably the same guy who killed Caspere and was in the stolen movie car which was shown sitting outside when CF showed up to the house. My question is why? Also why didn't he take the recorder with the hard drive before than also? Must be some other cop(s) involved somehow.

 

Mayor of Vinci's house did feel like some old Scarface shit!

 

I got my eyes on those 2 redheads - VV wife and his main henchmen who couldn't be reached for hours. 

[shapeshifter]

...You're right, I checked and that guy at the construction site is Bart, not Stan.

Then sorry guys, I have no idea who Stan is either. I guess he's just one of Frank's men.

 Too bad. I liked your version better, penelope79.

 

 

The fight scene between Frank and the guy with the Fuck You grill was amusing to me.  In what world do these people live, where the "gangstas" solve their issues in 2015 with a fistfight between 2 heavyweights while their minions stand around in a circle waiting for the finish?  And then one of the minions conveniently has a set of pliers at the ready? Come on.

 

And the mayor and his family....again, what world is this???...

Twin Peaks?:

...Here is snippet from a review of the show from The Atlantic.

...I mentioned an occasional David Lynchian quality to the show last week, but this scene turned the Lynch dial up to eleven. It was more Twin Peaks than Twin Peaks at its Twin Peaksiest....

As much as I hated the fight scene and the pliers, it did give us the best line of the night: "That's no way to greet the world."

[Bannon]

I've tried to like this show two years in a row, and have not done so. It is a bit unfortunate, since there is a structure here which could provide the basis of something quite good, especially this year. Corrupt municpal government is a theme which always interests me, in that it allows for a complexity and multidimensionality of characters. "The Wire" did not waste a lot of time on that most boring of plot devices, the sexually deviant serial killer. The Vince vaughn chracter could have been a really great exploration of the very ruthless non-sociopathic protagonist.

 

Instead, the writing has featured really obvious mistakes, big and small. The recurring dive bar featuring the singer is really stupid. Note to writers; people who sell liquor by the drink don't hire live entertainment to provide  atmosphere to a few angsty customer scattered about the saloon. They do so to fill the place, and if they can't, the saloon keeper abandons live entertainement. Which is why sparsely populated dive bars don't have live entertainment. On a larger note, the entire sexual perversion of the murder victim subtext is pretty lame, and yes, I know HBO is going to HBO. If they actually try to have a young, single character, blackmailed over being  gay, that is just too stupid for words. More generally, it's a real error to have every single chracter be severely emotionally damaged, in that it is the collision of the well adjusted with the maladjusted which provides great entertainment. Think of Saul and Bullock in "Deadwood", for instance.

 

Too bad, really. 

[teddysmom]

If they actually try to have a young, single character, blackmailed over being  gay, that is just too stupid for words.

 

Tell that to Scientology and Tom Cruise/John Travolta.   I agree it's stupid to think that anyone cares, but just because we're cool with someone's sexuality doesn't mean they've come to terms with it, or understand it. 

 

I get the feeling Frank and Ray meet at the Black Rose at the end of the evening, when the place has pretty much cleared out. It could be the only place in town.   And never underestimate a bar owner's ability to make bad business decisions. 

[Bannon]

Tell that to Scientology and Tom Cruise/John Travolta.   I agree it's stupid to think that anyone cares, but just because we're cool with someone's sexuality doesn't mean they've come to terms with it, or understand it. 

 

I get the feeling Frank and Ray meet at the Black Rose at the end of the evening, when the place has pretty much cleared out. It could be the only place in town.   And never underestimate a bar owner's ability to make bad business decisions. 

If they had written the part in a manner which made being gay blackmail fodder, sure, it could work, but they didn't do that. They just have a sexually confused/repressed young single guy, working a job where being straight or gay doesn't really matter. Sure, it could cause him some discomfort, but blackmail? That's just dumb. 

 

Also, I've spent way too many late evenings in bars. saloons, taverns,gin joints, buckets of blood, and any other description where hooch is served to the hoochhounds, in multiple states and countries, than I care to admit to. This joint rings about as true as bottom shelf scotch poured into a Johnny Black bottle. To me, it is ridiculously affected, poor, writing. 

Edited July 6, 2015 by Bannon

[Crim]

Not only is the repressed homosexuality storyline obvious, it is also telegraphed and smoke-signaled and sang with loud bullhorns, as in this lovely exchange: "You do girls.", "In a pinch. With the right medication." - did the writers think they had to clear up the scene in the pilot just in case it was still too mysterious and subtle? This is a minor detail, but it does not bode well for the writing in general when there is this sort of double backing to hammer everything in.

 

The obvious Twin Peaks "homage" - I'll just call it that - was interesting for one moment, then I was pulled out of the scene by how ineffective it was compared to Twin Peaks. It was half-assed, without that blatantly surreal dream quality that sucks you in. In fact, for all that they pulled a big shot (well, relatively) director for this, I can't remember a moment when I was particularly impressed.

 

Still watching for the visuals though, and by visuals I mean Rachel McAdams. Damn, she looks great and I like her in the role. She even made the dull Soldier Viagra likeable in their scene together. Maybe it's her line readings, but the writing for her often sounds better. "Like a cheerleader on an oil rig." was just the right kind of funny.

[cpcathy]

I'm just glad I'm not the only one who doesn't know who Stan is!

 

This is soooo boring.

[polyhymnia]

I haven't much complained about the dialogue on this show. It has been WTF worth in some respects but it hasn't really bothered me until last night. That conversation between Vince Vaughn and his henchman/bodyguard after that Russian left had a small but for some reason the most annoying exchange I have ever heard strung together in a sentence. VV asked: 

 

 

Who da fuck talks like this?!!? I don't know why but this exchange just bothered the ever-loving hell out of me. In the real world, a regular thug/wannabe kingpin would have just used the last sentence.

 

That ridiculous exchange and the dialogue from his meet with CF where they both used apoplectic several times.  And strident, I think.  I thought that was a decent scene in the bar, but definitely trying too hard with the dialogue.  And it's not that this didn't happen (frequently) last year with MM's monologues but he pulled it off much, MUCH better.

I am trying to not compare it to season 1, but I really don't watch procedurals so if this season is just a quirky procedural + boring POV of minor organized crime boss I will be disappointed.

[Jextella]

In season 1, there was one storyline about a weird cult-like entity doing dastardly things with women and children. Set against a bayou backdrop with remnants of Creole voodoo, it all seemed to work. It was a compelling backdrop. Interesting. Creepy, etc.

I get the feeling the writers built this season on top of "sex" assuming issues of rape, prostitution, repressed homosexuality, infertility, S&M (or whatever the hell Ani was attempting in the bedroom) etc. would be enough to give us the creepy factor of Season 1. Epic FAIL.

They should have kept the focus on the corruption of the city and scaled back the sexual issues to .001 of what they are now. The corruption storyline by itself should have been sufficient for a good writer.

As it is now, it's just sort of a convoluted mess and the sex stuff is detracting from what could otherwise be a good story.

...just my opinion.

[ToastnBacon]

Where are you guys getting that Paul is going to be blackmailed over his sexuality? I don't think that at all.

If anything, Velcoro's partner was snapping pics for the Tabloids, or for the Vinci PD bosses.

[Bannon]

In season 1, there was one storyline about a weird cult-like entity doing dastardly things with women and children. Set against a bayou backdrop with remnants of Creole voodoo, it all seemed to work. It was a compelling backdrop. Interesting. Creepy, etc.

I get the feeling the writers built this season on top of "sex" assuming issues of rape, prostitution, repressed homosexuality, infertility, S&M (or whatever the hell Ani was attempting in the bedroom) etc. would be enough to give us the creepy factor of Season 1. Epic FAIL.

They should have kept the focus on the corruption of the city and scaled back the sexual issues to .001 of what they are now. The corruption storyline by itself should have been sufficient for a good writer.

As it is now, it's just sort of a convoluted mess and the sex stuff is detracting from what could otherwise be a good story.

...just my opinion.

I agree completely about season 2, but I disliked season 1 as well, since I find the weird cult-like entity doing dastardly things to children and women to be tiresome. Plain old murder wrapped around the pursuit of money, power, and jealousy,  written to include characters who are mutifaceted and speak in an interesting, believable, fashion, is a better path to good drama, it seems to me. Of course, it's really, really, really, (really!) hard to created multifaceted characters who speak in an interesting, believable fashion, which is why so many writers follow the path of affected plot devices.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Bannon

[Bannon]

Where are you guys getting that Paul is going to be blackmailed over his sexuality? I don't think that at all.

If anything, Velcoro's partner was snapping pics for the Tabloids, or for the Vinci PD bosses.

Why would he be snapping pictures of two men for tabloids or Vinci PD, if not for blackmail, given the suggestion that the two men had been sexually intimate?

[sjankis630]

I have not been that impressed by Vince Vaughn either in this role but some of it has to do with the stilted dialogue given him. I mean DeNiro would have trouble making it believable IMHO. I wasn't impressed  with VV beating up the pimp to show how tough he was either, but I was impressed by how much of a dick he was to Ray after he told him about getting shot point blank with a shotgun after VV sent him to the house. If I was Ray I would have been pissed.

On a side note - just to add to all the confusion - did anyone get an Anthony Perkins weird vibe from that set photographer Ray talked to? For some reason I can just see him as the type to be "filming" Caspere's exploits and somehow be involved in this whole thing. I mean I would suspect him if I didn't already know there were only 5 more episodes left and it would be too distracting.

 

I also didn't notice that dead Stan's eyes were missing - I thought something looked weird about his body.

We are all going to need eye protection before this is all over the way this sloppy writing is flinging about all these loose ends.

[ToastnBacon]

Why would he be snapping pictures of two men for tabloids or Vinci PD, if not for blackmail, given the suggestion that the two men had been sexually intimate?

How would he even know what they where talking about from that far away? Edited July 6, 2015 by ToastnBacon

[Maire]

I haven't much complained about the dialogue on this show. It has been WTF worth in some respects but it hasn't really bothered me until last night. That conversation between Vince Vaughn and his henchman/bodyguard after that Russian left had a small but for some reason the most annoying exchange I have ever heard strung together in a sentence. VV asked:

QUOTE

Shouldn't a reasonable man infer from Osip's arrival and departure and fucking failure to make good on our terms as being connected not just to Caspere but prefiguring Caspere? In a casual sense. I'm saying, do you think that Osip could've done Caspere"

 

 

I picked up on this dialogue too. It was so stilted. It sounded very "Deadwood" to me but VV is no Al Swerengen!

[Bannon]

How would he even know what they where talking about from that far away?

He wouldn't, but why have him snapping pictures? Of what use are they to anyone? It's an old army buddy; so there is nothing revelatory in the two people speaking with each other. Why are the writers indicating the character is a closeted homosexual, and establishing that he is being covertly photographed?

 

It's certainly possible that the purpose of the photographs is to find out who the other guy is, and somehow have him linked to some previous Black Mountain nefariousness, but there exists a strong possibility that threatening to force the character from the closet is going to be a way to advance the plot. I hope it isn't, because that's really stupid, but it is a real possibility at this point.

[Penman61]

I agree that just because viewers would be cool with Paul's gaiety doesn't mean HE would be, but the examples of Cruise/Travolta I think show why it's a weak choice here:  Both Cruise and Travolta established careers when it was NOT ok to be out (late 70s, early 80s), and they now both have significant investments in their established personae such that coming out COULD damage them, even now.  

 

Paul is barely 30 (if that) in 2014, so it's just not clear why his 2014 closetedness should be such an important pillar of his character without some clear specific motivation (religious upbringing, hateful family, etc.).  To whom exactly is this obviously single man going to be blackmailed, in a job and state with employment protections and in a field with openly gay brass?

 

On matters etymological, I'd like to point out that VV keeps using the word strident; I do not think that word means what he thinks it means.  CF was being uncooperative or perhaps quietly antagonizing, but there was nothing in volume or tone (which is what defines strident) to suggest strident. If you're gonna write precious goddamn dialogue, at least make sure it's correct.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Penman61

[Bannon]

I picked up on this dialogue too. It was so stilted. It sounded very "Deadwood" to me but VV is no Al Swerengen!

Milch was writing characters set in the latter part of the 19th century. They should have sounded stilted to us. The modern profanities were inauthentic, but the reason they were employed was due to the use of late 19th century profanity, to show the profane nature of Deadwood, would have had the effect of making the people sound like Loony Tunes' Yosemite Sam, and would have had an unintended humorous effect.

 

This stuff is just low grade Mamet, a vastly overrated writer of dialogue, in my view.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Bannon

[BeatrixK]

Rachel McAdams...you're character is totally dysfunctional, but I do have to say I am developing a pretty big girl crush on you!  You may single-handedly save this season.

 

VV - I think it's a combo of his acting (Not bad, but he ain't gonna be getting any Stanly Kowalski role offers anytime soon.), and either the character of Frank being poorly written/just miscast.  I swear, there are times I think VV is taking a page out of Joey Tribianni's 'Smell the Fart acting' play book. 

 

I keep having to remind myself this is a different story than season 1....and I don't think it's good that I have to remind myself that while watching the current season.

[Quilt Fairy]

As much as I hated the fight scene and the pliers, it did give us the best line of the night: "That's no way to greet the world."

I hated that scene, too (I couldn't even look at the TV), but I was rooting for VV to do that.

 

I don't understand the mayor. In any other story it would be VV who is squeezing him, talking about "the vig", etc. Are we to presume that the mayor is actually better connected than VV? Because otherwise I don't understand where his power is coming from. Being corrupt in and of itself doesn't give you power.

 

Last season, doing a noir story set in the Louisiana bayou was different and it worked. If you're going to bring your noir series back to LA, the home of noir, you just need to do it better than this.

[Bannon]

I hated that scene, too (I couldn't even look at the TV), but I was rooting for VV to do that.

 

I don't understand the mayor. In any other story it would be VV who is squeezing him, talking about "the vig", etc. Are we to presume that the mayor is actually better connected than VV? Because otherwise I don't understand where his power is coming from. Being corrupt in and of itself doesn't give you power.

 

Last season, doing a noir story set in the Louisiana bayou was different and it worked. If you're going to bring your noir series back to LA, the home of noir, you just need to do it better than this.

Yeah, this is looking like a bad remake of "Chinatown" at this point. Having the Vaughn character remove the gold teeth could have worked great, but the set up, with the ridiculous fight in front of the professional criminals, was just dumb. Think of Bob Hoskins having all the criminals hung upside down on meathooks, when he wants to get them in line, in "The Long Good Friday".  

Edited July 6, 2015 by Bannon

[meep.meep]

I'm in the "who is Stan" club.

The dialog that VV has to deliver is awful. I hesitate to blame him for not being able to sell it.

The show is called True Detective. We've seen that the folks in Vinci don't want Ray to solve the murder. The county wants Ani to get Ray instead of solving the murder. I am sure that we will learn what the state wants Woodrow to do instead of solving it.

Frank is the detective here. He has to solve the murder in order to find the money he gave Caspare. He's on the case.

[preciousperfect]

Another +1 for who the hell is Stan?

 

Too many characters so far. Hopefully they are done introducing people and can move the plot along.

[Desperately Random]

Rachel McAdams...you're character is totally dysfunctional, but I do have to say I am developing a pretty big girl crush on you!  You may single-handedly save this season.

 

VV - I think it's a combo of his acting (Not bad, but he ain't gonna be getting any Stanly Kowalski role offers anytime soon.), and either the character of Frank being poorly written/just miscast.  I swear, there are times I think VV is taking a page out of Joey Tribianni's 'Smell the Fart acting' play book. 

 

I agree with you. I am loving Rachel McAdams in this. Both she and Colin Farrell are the standouts this season. The best part of every episode are scenes that feature one or both of them. I am also starting to warm up to Taylor Kisch's character and I think the actor is doing a good job with what is probably going to turn out to be the worn out "can't admit he's gay" storyline we've seen a hundred times already. Still, I'm curious to see what happens to his character so I give the actor credit for keeping me interested.

Vince Vaughn has been the big disappointment for me. I really thought he was going to be good in this and I have been surprised at his lackluster performance. As others have said, he just doesn't have the gravitas for the role and he comes across as bored more than anything else. It isn't helping him that the actress playing his wife is even worse. She really seems like some one saying her lines without any feeling or emotion behind the words. Her and Vince Vaughn's scenes together are the worst of every episode.

 

I don't understand the mayor. In any other story it would be VV who is squeezing him, talking about "the vig", etc. Are we to presume that the mayor is actually better connected than VV? Because otherwise I don't understand where his power is coming from. Being corrupt in and of itself doesn't give you power.

 

This is probably the part of the story I can relate to and understand the most. Vinci is based on the RL city of Vernon, which is located in Los Angeles County. The city is mainly industrial and has a population of a little over a hundred residents. It also had a mayor and city council that was corrupt and had been in power for decades. Any opposition to them was quickly and effectively squashed.

So the Mayor having power over Frank is completely in line with how Vernon and it's political representatives ran the city and kept control over the people who worked for them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernon,_California  

Here are some of parts related to the corruption:

 

The city held no contested elections from 1980 to 2006; The "Los Angeles Democrat" said city officials virtually "handpick their colleagues": Out of the five current City Council members, four were appointed, not elected by the voters.[7]

Most of the city's less than 90 voters are city employees or connected to city employees who live in homes rented at a nominal fee. In 1979 a firefighter tried to run for mayor and was immediately evicted and told he couldn't run. In 2006 a group of outsiders tried to move into Vernon and run for office. The city tried to cancel their registrations but was ordered to allow them to run and to count the ballots. Almost none of the city employees voted for them. Leonis Malburg, the mayor for fifty years, was convicted of voter fraud, conspiracy, and perjury in December 2009. In May 2011, the former city administrator Bruce Malkenhorst, Sr., accepted a plea deal for misappropriating $60,000 in public funds.[24]

In 2006, a controversy arose concerning a few people who moved into Vernon and ran for city council. This marked the first time in more than two decades that there was a competitive race for city council. In 2006, eight people converted a 1950s era office building into a five-room apartment (the building had previously been used as a tanning facility turning sheepskin into billiard/pool pockets), and three of them filed to run for office. The city responded by cutting off their power and moving to evict them as illegal squatters.[25] The City of Vernon alleged that the men were part of a hostile takeover attempt by convicted felon Albert Robles, who nearly bankrupted the nearby city of South Gate as treasurer and Eduardo Olivo, a former Vernon attorney who also worked with Albert T. Robles, in South Gate.

 

Their investigation uncovered evidence of voter fraud on the part of the ruling family, which, it was asserted, tried to keep out new residents. Leonis Malburg, who has been mayor for 50 years, claimed he lived in a small Vernon apartment in the 2800 block of Leonis Boulevard (named after his grandfather, also a mayor), when in fact he was living in upscale Hancock Park, Los Angeles. His wife and son also claimed to live in Vernon, voting in Vernon elections though evidence indicated they too lived in Hancock Park. Charges against the Malburgs include voter fraud, assisting unqualified voters, false registration, and perjury.[17]

Malkenhorst Sr. was charged with 18 counts of "misappropriation of public funds" for reportedly taking $60,000 of city money for personal use. His salary from the city had been $600,000.

 

[represent]

 

7 minutes ago

 

Another +1 for who the hell is Stan?

I think Stan was the guy who was sitting in the back of the car when VV's character was asking am I diminished or something to that effect.  When he was admitting that he had absolutely nothing left and that he mortgaged his house twice and whatnot. Stan is the one guy around him that does not seem to be his muscle, he seemed like he was his lawyer of financial advisor. He always seem to have the portfolio or paper work in his hands. Yeah, I didn't see that guy in this episode at all alive anyway, the dead guy looked like him.

[MarkySnark]

Between the opening singer (young Kurt Russell) and the mayor's wife (Courtney Love), I thought this episode was a game of "Spot the Celebrity Impersonator." Also, since Frank seems to be a much better street thug than he is a money manager, maybe the crime organization should let Mayor Drunken Snidely Whiplash run the business end of things and have Frank be his main enforcer.

[Crim]

I think Stan was the guy who was sitting in the back of the car when VV's character was asking am I diminished or something to that effect.

I think you are right! I think it's his lawyer; he went in with Frank for the conversation about the land purchases.

 

This guy:

https://i.imgur.com/A8CPW0y.jpg

Edited July 6, 2015 by Crim

[represent]

 

I agree with you. I am loving Rachel McAdams in this. Both she and Colin Farrell are the standouts this season

I co-sign on this. Although I am a VV fan as well and don't think he's awful, but the other two stand out a lot more when they are on screen.   I knew I would like McAdams in this if she pulled it off because I've only seen her in the damsel/girl next door roles. I knew that it would be entertaining to see her play the complete opposite since I've never seen her do so.

[iMonrey]

I honestly don't think Vince Vaughn is the problem. The problem is that the entire storyline for Frank is an enigmatic mess. Scene after scene of Frank having conversations with people where they talk in circles, make vague threats and accusations and I still don't understand exactly what is happening. I feel as if I walked into the middle of the movie and I don't know what's going on and can't pick up the thread. I don't know if it's deliberately obtuse to keep us guessing or if the writer is just doing a crap job of conveying whatever the heck is going on with this character, but that's the problem I have with it.

 

I think VV - as an actor - just brought a lot of baggage with him and lots of eyebrows were raised when he was cast, but I honestly wouldn't find Frank's story any more compelling with another actor no matter how good they were. I do think if it were someone more popular there wouldn't be as many complaints; I can truly see critics fawning all over Matthew McConaughey if he were playing Frank with his usual Texan drawl and people would ooh and ahh over the nuance of his performance, while VV just isn't bringing anything flashy or kooky to the part. But this storyline is a stinker and it's not VV's fault.

 

The opening dream sequence is another reason this show isn't working for me. It's trying too hard to be arty.

[represent]

 

I think you are right! I think it's his lawyer; he went in with Frank for the conversation about the land purchases.

 

This guy:

 Spoilerhttps://i.imgur.com/A8CPW0y.jpg

 Edited by Crim, A minute ago.

Yeah, that's the guy, he's Stan.

[Crim]

I honestly don't think Vince Vaughn is the problem. The problem is that the entire storyline for Frank is an enigmatic mess. Scene after scene of Frank having conversations with people where they talk in circles, make vague threats and accusations and I still don't understand exactly what is happening.

I think that if Frank's storyline was the only one to play out this way the show would still be watchable. After all, it is explicitly related to the murders, even if the connection is unclear and might even be a red herring in the end.

 

For me, the real issue is the story lines that aren't in any way connected to the main plot. I understand why the show didn't repeat season 1's structure, but this complete mess of disjointed character moments just ain't doing it for me. Is the show about murders and investigations and their effects on people's lives or is it about troubled sex lives? Because I signed up to watch for one, definitely not for the other. (ETA: When we saw Marty's family life, for example, it was justified and also we saw the dissolution happening; things like how he met his wife were not part of the show. This season it's all about back stories instead of letting the characterization just build before our eyes. It doesn't work that well for me, i.e. I really like Ani, but I honestly don't care about her childhood.)

Edited July 6, 2015 by Crim

[represent]

 

but I honestly wouldn't find Frank's story any more compelling with another actor no matter how good they were. I do think if it were someone more popular there wouldn't be as many complaints; I can truly see critics fawning all over Matthew McConaughey if he were playing Frank with his usual Texan drawl and people would ooh and ahh over the nuance of his performance, while VV just isn't bringing anything flashy or kooky to the part. But this storyline is a stinker and it's not VV's fault.

This is my view as well. I am no MM fan either way,  although he looks damn fine in those car commercials, LOL. But that didn't keep me from asking WTF was he saying in just about every seen in last seasons TD. I definitely was able to focus a lot better when WH's character was on screen than when MM's character was on. I was like what in the hell is he's talking about, it just took me out of the scene. That's what's happening a lot with VV's character this season and I like him a hell of a lot more than MM.

[teddysmom]

Then sorry guys, I have no idea who Stan is either. I guess he's just one of Frank's men.

 

Just read on another review - Stan is one of Frank's men.  He was at the bar during Frank & Ray's first meeting (present time), and was the guy who pepper sprayed the guy by his car.    

[Cardie]

I was all "the Emperor has no clothes" about S1 and am more or less hate-watching this season for the absurd dialogue and pretentious literary allusions. (Apparently Oedipus Rex is one of them, thus the eyes and the Greek tragedy reference of Ani being named Antigone.) Pizzolatto creates collages of others' ideas and thinks it makes him daring and smart. In reality he's just a guy who thinks sexual perversion and political corruption go together and putting lost, haunted men into the thick of the tangle is somehow profound.
 
However, I can't watch a mystery without attempting to solve it. Given the Oedipus stuff, I think the killer has to do with Frank giving Ray the identity of his wife's rapist. I have a feeling that this really wasn't the rapist, just someone Frank needed offed. So the revenge-seeker is either someone connected to the guy Ray killed or the real rapist, now moved on to more baroque activities. Since Chad has flaming red hair, I'd be on the lookout for redheads so

I got my eyes on those 2 redheads

Yes, indeed!

Edited July 6, 2015 by Cardie

[represent]

So, I'm thinking this is the one characteristic that must appear in every season of TD, one character that even with captions you still wouldn't know WTF they were talking about. It's what the best SNL skits are made of, comedy gold, IMO.

[Desperately Random]

This is Stan:

 

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1237235/?ref_=tt_cl_t46

 

So not the guy in the back seat of the car. I thought it was him too but i was remembering wrong.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Desperately Random

[represent]

was the guy who pepper sprayed the guy by his car.

 

But I thought I saw those two guys there when they found "Stan's" body. When Frank told them to pack him up I thought two of the guys were the ones who did the pepper spray hit, it looked like them.

I don't think Stan does hits which is probably why Frank said something to the effect of who would want to hurt Stan of all people. I don't think Stan is his muscle.

This is Stan:

 

http://www.imdb.com/...?ref_=tt_cl_t4

 

Oh, ok, he was barely on screen.

[Tara Ariano]

ICYMI, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

What If Taylor Kitsch And Vince Vaughn Switched True Detective Roles? In Sarah D. Bunting's alternate universe, Riggins is the kingpin, and the show is better for it.

[Kbilly]

Yeah, that's the guy, he's Stan.

 

I'm so glad I wasn't alone on this, cueing up imdb mid-episode (PS, imdb break up the True Detectives into seasons please!) 

 

The Mayor's house was embarrassingly bad. Trashed mansion "What party?"with the stumbling Russian wife using drugs  medicinally out of a balloon in front of cops, naked lady launching into the pool and crazily- affected son? Oh geez.

 

The Conway Twitty bit reminded me of Family Guy Conway Twitty bits! Right on with the bizarro Twin Peaks-ness.

 

I'm still baffled by the bolo. 

[LoveLeigh]

Does anybody know how I can find out the designer of the green silk kimono robe that Jordan, Frank's wife, was wearing in that final scene of this episode? 

[myname2use4now]

I'm just glad I'm not the only one who doesn't know who Stan is!

 

This is soooo boring.

FYI - Your post had me cracking up. It's never a good sign when an audience is spending its time trying to figure out who a character is and why they should care!

[Ellaria]

Does anybody know how I can find out the designer of the green silk kimono robe that Jordan, Frank's wife, was wearing in that final scene of this episode? 

 

You can try a general Google search but that may not yield much. The best bet is to contact the person doing the "costumes" for the show. Look in IMDB for his/her name.

 

The confusion about Stan's identity tells me that this show isn't doing something right. 

Edited July 6, 2015 by Ellaria Sand

[myname2use4now]

*snip

 

However, I can't watch a mystery without attempting to solve it. Given the Oedipus stuff, I think the killer has to do with Frank giving Ray the identity of his wife's rapist. I have a feeling that this really wasn't the rapist, just someone Frank needed offed. So the revenge-seeker is either someone connected to the guy Ray killed or the real rapist, now moved on to more baroque activities. Since Chad has flaming red hair, I'd be on the lookout for redheads so

Yes, indeed!

Was Officer Paul's mother a red head?

[NurseGiGi]

The dialogue was believable in the first season because MM's character was established to be a well read pompous intellectual type.  And mostly because he had WH around to be his foil and to make fun of these character traits.  VV has been established to be a gangster who still uses double negatives so the dialogue just doesn't work.  I really don't like VV and don't think he has the skills to pull off this role but I'm not blaming it on him.  And I think some comparisons to season one are viable since NP is the one who decided to bring along some of his overblown, unrealistic dialogue.   

 

Season two's plot just isn't working for me.  The VV character is onscreen entirely too much and as things now stand I'm watching only for CF, RM, and TK.

 

ETA:  The pic VV showed CF was of a brown headed man and they stated it matched his wife's description of her attacker. So, my point is the real attacker wouldn't necessarily have to be a redhead.

Edited July 6, 2015 by NurseGiGi

[Cardie]

It's possible Ray could have killed the actual rapist but someone connected to him wants revenge on Frank and Ray. But I don't think casting chooses a ginger kid when the mom, the legal dad, and the possible biological dad all have dark brown hair. (Yes, TK's mom is auburn-haired.)

 

Someone has conspired to swindle Frank out of his money, probably someone with a connection to the big corp. whose name begins with C (Catalyst?) and which keeps popping up in dialogue. Whether they have any connection to the serial killer is unclear. Last year the lawnmower man was a result of the perverse practices of the powerful family that ran the schools but they were directly involved in the cover-up, not the actual murders.

[CouchTater]

Just read on another review - Stan is one of Frank's men.  He was at the bar during Frank & Ray's first meeting (present time), and was the guy who pepper sprayed the guy by his car.    

Who was the guy who was pepper sprayed, by the way?  I may have glazed over because it was a Frank scene (LOL), but I never understood who he was, other than Frank perceives him as a threat.

Edited July 7, 2015 by CouchTater

[magdalene]

 

The confusion about Stan's identity tells me that this show isn't doing something right.

I still don't remember "Stan" as anything other than a glorified extra. This is because whenever Frank and his posse of generic goons are on my eyes tend to glaze over and my mind starts to wander to what the other main characters may be up to. As contrived as the whole Paul story line seems to me to this point I haven't been bored yet watching him angsting about. The same with Ray and Ani.

[WatchrTina]

I can't believe I turned off American Ninja Warrior to watch this dreck.

 

In other news, I do not give a fuck who Stan is.