S02.E08: Memento Mori

[maczero]

Billie Piper's diatribe was righteous and insane; great job.  What will Caliban do?  I bet their story will hold over for next season, which it should, it needs more attention than just the two episodes left can give it.

 

 

Am I the only one who thinks this isn't all Brona?  I mean I can understand Brona wanting payback against men because of her shitty life.  But this chick also wants to screw over humanity as well.  Not to mention she seemed a bit of a megalomaniac.  This really doesn't sound like Brona.  I'm under the impression that something evil hitched a ride back when the body was brought back to life.

Wait a second, guys. Was Malcolm just outed by Evelyn as Vanessa's biological father? Or was she referencing their emotional father/daughter connection?

It kinda sounded that way to me.  I'm hoping it isn't.  

 

I've just marathoned PD in a couple of days, after catching Little Scorpion and being intrigued. I'm fairly positive that the vampire brother on earth (whether it's Dracula or Dorian or something else) is still alive as Malcolm killed the head vampire and all of the vamps it had turned were also killed. Mina didn't die with that vampire, so the vampire big bad (presumably the brother, using Mina to get Vanessa) is still around.

 

I hope that there's rematch with the vampires.  That first bunch was pretty weak.  Also, hope to see Dracula show up as well.

 

Everyone seems to be forgetting that Lyle is still technically under the employ of the witches. Sent specifically to mess with the translation. Now I also think he's 98% Team Vanessa but he could be lying about some integral part of that translation.

He could be but I could've sworn that Evelyn wants Lyle to lead them to the witches. 

 

It was a mistake showing the portrait.  There's was no way it was going to live up to the hideous of what was in our imaginations.

 

Speaking of Dorian, I'm hoping that he and Lillystien will team up and form their own monster crew opposed to the show's protagonists.  Maybe recruit Mr. Hyde and the Mummy.

Edited June 23, 2015 by maczero

[iMonrey]

 

Lastly, I like Eva Green and I always have but I think I have seen my fill of her bat cray cray slithering contortions and dialogue.  I watched the short lived CAMELOT and she acted in a very similar manner.  I like her more without all the 'extras'.

 

I agree with this. I know Eva Green is a big selling point for this show, but the main reason I never really got into the first season was because it was just one long Eva Green fuck-fest and over the top Eva Green antics. They've toned it down this season and I've been enjoying this season far more than the first. This episodes was very good and she wasn't even in it. They need to continue relying on her a bit less. Sure, she's a great character and important to the story but this episode proves every little scene doesn't need to revolve around her.

 

I was really mesmerized by the scene between Lily and Caliban and wouldn't have expected to be. I thought for sure this was the scene where he kills her for rejecting him (just like in the original story) so flipping that on its head was gratifying and the actors were great. I'm still confused about when exactly she realized who she really was but that's a minor quibble. 

 

I'm also not sure exactly how or why Sir Malcolm was able to 'break the enchantment' but if he's able to then Vanessa should be as well.

 

Finally, I want to know what the hell kind of poison Dorian used on Angelique because I've never heard of anything that kills that instantaneously. She barely had time to swallow it.

 

 

[FurryFury]

It was a big challenge for the show to have a big, important episod without Vanessa, who is usually at the center of everything and played by the strongest (imho) actor in the cast, and I think it has mostly succeeded.

Holy hell, that Brona/Caliban scene! I knew BP was good (I've also loved Rose on Doctor Who, and there really are many who do, Sakura12 - I think 90% of Tumblr fans prefer her and RTD's period), but I didn't expect that intensity. I'm really impressed with the way the show turned its weakest storyline into a strength. That said, I'm still not a fan of Caliban, but I appreciate the bait-and-switch in regards to him and Brona.

Angelique's death was expected, but I didn't think we'll see Dorian in chains on his portrait. I wonder if he, and not Dracula, could be the second brother (because I desperately want for his existence to tie into the plot)... Or maybe he's actually Ethan's evil counterpart? I mean, we've just seen Ethan in chains as well.

I liked Sir Malcolm in this ep (although I dearly miss his beard), but the last scene didn't live up to the previous one with Brona and Caliban. I assume that now that enchantment has failed, it's time for illusion magic? Meh.

I don't think it was implied he was Vanessa's father. Although he probably wishes he could be.

Edited June 23, 2015 by FurryFury

[Sakura12]

Holy hell, that Brona/Caliban scene! I knew BP was good (I've also loved Rose on Doctor Who, and there really are many who do, Sakura12 - I think 90% of Tumblr fans prefer her and RTD's period), but I didn't expect that intensity. I'm really impressed with the way the show turned its weakest storyline into a strength. That said, I'm still not a fan of Caliban, but I appreciate the bait-and-switch in regards to him and Brona.

 

That's good, it must be this forum and twop that hated her. It is interesting to see the praise for Moffat fall every episode he puts out. He ruined Doctor Who for me. Rose is still my favorite companion. I'm happy that Billie Piper is able to show she can act (she just can't do accents, which is it's own special talent). I loved the Bronily reveal. It was one that I was truly shocked at. I know we saw her kill that guy last episode, but her speech where she revealed she knew exactly what she was was intense. 

[Dobian]

What I want to know (and I must re-watch that scene) is, at what point did Bronily know she was Victor's creation?  From the very beginning?  Bronily is now a very interesting character and I've been a fan of Caliban from the start.  Their story has a lot of potential, but I fear for Victor...

 

My one other exposure to Billie Piper was Secret Diary of a Call Girl, in which I found her quite engaging.  A shame they pulled the plug on that one prematurely (only 32 episodes over four seasons), despite it doing quite well for a cable series.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Dobian

[Taly]

Did anyone else notice the scorpion on the floor, the tracks made by Malcolm's feet? I swear I saw one if not several in the dust while Malcolm stood there.. Nice touch if so.

[Sakura12]

I want Bronily to have known from the beginning and been playing innocent for Victor, but I also think it was the party at Dorian's that triggered her memory, her mannerisms changed after that. Starting by grabbing a drink when Victor who doesn't drink never introduced her to alcohol. 

[LittleIggy]

When did Sir M figure out that Evelyn was a witch who put a spell on him? I walked out of the room and must have missed something. He doesn't seem all that bright to me, ie, going to confront her by himself.

Did the Pinkerton guy turn? I expected old One Hand of Scotland Yard to mention another attack but nada.

[Cyranetta]

 

taly: Did anyone else notice the scorpion on the floor, the tracks made by Malcolm's feet? I swear I saw one if not several in the dust while Malcolm stood there.. Nice touch if so.

Indeed, but the only problem is that I now associate the scorpion so strongly with Orphan Black that I half expected Tatiana Maslany's voice to come out of it...

[spaceghostess]

Did anyone else notice the scorpion on the floor, the tracks made by Malcolm's feet? I swear I saw one if not several in the dust while Malcolm stood there.. Nice touch if so.

Yes! I commented on that to my husband, but then wondered if I was seeing things.

[pele2102]

Finally, I want to know what the hell kind of poison Dorian used on Angelique because I've never heard of anything that kills that instantaneously. She barely had time to swallow it.

You know maybe in his fucked up King Douche way he killed her so quick because he felt some kind of affection for Angelique.

[rozen]

Helen McCrory is a QUEEN! She makes a spectacular villain. Her scene with Sir Malcolm were spell binding. Even though I am not remotely moved by her confessions of being lonely and alone (who told you to sell your ass to the devil) it was very nice to see genuine emotion coming from her. Although, color me surprised that she was catching feelings for Malcolm.

 

 

I think she was playing him during the entire spiel. But I do think that part of it is true. He is probably one of the few humans capable of walking with her through the ages, because he's A) got an incredible amount of self-awareness and B) is sort of a remorseless asshole despite it. Vanessa is literally the only weak spot he has left, if shit hit the fan I'm pretty sure he's sacrifice even Sembene and rent-a-son Victor. She could have done all sorts of nasty puppet things with his corpse, but instead she left him alive and locked him in a room full of Zombie Family. She was pissed. 

 

I liked that Malcom was low-key fighting the enchantment (finally) in this episode before Sembene staged an intervention. He saw this new "love" was a mask over who he really was and was trying to wrestle it out. Have to give him some credit as he was battling a witch with a lifetime of experience in this stuff. Hecate could swing from chandeliers and she still couldn't have gotten his attention. Kali caught his eye because she was a woman, not a little girl. Funny, because Hecate's probably older than Malcom twice over.

 

Give Sembene something to do, jeezhuss. He's making the two lines per episode they give him count. I want an extended scene between him and Vanessa, it would be epic. But not possessed Vanessa, because he'd just backhand her unconscious again and haul her back to bed. So practical, that Sembene. 

 

Caliban's an idiot. Still threatening to come back and torture Victor once he's acquired Lily? That means he literally has no recourse other than to murder you, idiot. He has too much faith in his supernatural strength. Trying to kill someone who knows you're coming is a battle of brains, not brawn, and I still bet on Victor in that fight. Heroin-withdrawl and all. 

 

Lily is the superior model, dumb dumb. She could probably rip Caliban limb from limb just because Victor put her together better. That rant was The Best of All Time. I swear I think she was going to squash him into a hundred pieces until she realized he was very easily cowed and decided to use him for her maniacal plans. I'm glad she shat all over his possessive bullshit. Even in undeath, her life is supposed to revolve around making men happy? Caliban has spent how many years ruminating on the unfairness of humanity, and his solution is to use Lily to assert his denied position in the patriarchy? I still hope she squashes him, actually. 

 

Twin brothers! Ok, I'm happy now, storyline makes more sense. Two brothers duking it out to spring themselves from prison. So Ethan's exorcism worked not because he was a stealth super priest, but because he was the Wolf of God. I think Vanessa needs to make a "Mother of Evil" guidebook equivalent for her next incarnation. Acquire a wolf of god, like, immediately. Check.

 

All right, the last two seasons of this benevolent Dorian Grey bs was worth it just to see his innocent fluttering eyelashes while Angelique looked him in the eyes as he murdered her. The minute she found that passage way I was like "naw girl, didn't you read Blue Beard as a child?" Do not look the gift horse in the mouth, steal his money and run away. He probably would have even found that amusing. I always prefer they not show the portrait. I don't think anyone can ever do justice to what people have in their minds from the books. But then again, I guess without that people who haven't read it would have no idea what the big deal was.  

 

I would roflcopter if they made Dorian into Dracula. One of the two evil brothers finds a way to subvert his curse and is all like "naw, I'm cool with no apocalypse, they have foie gras here!" 

[ganesh]

If they don't show the portrait, then Dorian isn't tied into the main plot. If Dorian is the brother, then they kind of have to show it. They could have gone way way more gross with it imo, but I think it has to be shown to tie everything together.

[BuddhaBelly]

Isn't Caliban immortal? I remember him saying he tried to kill himself several times with little success.

[Cthulhudrew]

I liked that Malcom was low-key fighting the enchantment (finally) in this episode before Sembene staged an intervention. He saw this new "love" was a mask over who he really was and was trying to wrestle it out.

 

I liked it, but I thought it was kind of tragic at the same time. Him unconsciously realizing there was something wrong with him because, deep down, he knows he isn't capable of love. That's pretty dark. 

 

(The conversation between Victor and Malcolm where a lot of that self-realization came out was very bleak, and all the more bleak because Victor was wrestling with this insoluble problem of his own "love." Two men who are really incapable of genuine affection- at least of the traditionally romantic, superficial kind; one because of his own inner love/ego and self-loathing, the other because of his cold, calculating, Vulcan logic.)

[cali1981]

Speaking of Dorian, I'm hoping that he and Lillystien will team up and form their own monster crew opposed to the show's protagonists.  Maybe recruit Mr. Hyde and the Mummy.

If they also bring in Abbott and Costello, I'm gonna feel like I'm a kid again at my local movie theater's Saturday matinee!

Edited June 24, 2015 by cali1981

[darkestboy]

I think it's amazing that an episode without Vanessa and Ethan can be as compelling as any with them. They were not really missed here.

I liked that Malcolm came to be aware of what Evelyn was doing to him and their confrontation along with the final scene packed a big punch.

Sembene keeps surprising as a character as well, doesn't he?

Hecate trying to usurp her mother has been building for a while and it'll be interesting to see if she can go through with it as well. Lyle is so screwed though.

Damn it, Dorian. Poor Angelique. She did not deserve that.

Victor probably should get out of London now for his own safety.

The highlight of the episode was of course that scene with Lily and Caliban. Just wow to the whole exchange. Lily is completely out of control, 9/10

[attica]

Caliban annoys my man-tits. Wanna be a whiny, abused martyr for everything that's wrong with the world? Cool. Wanna be a bullyish asshole embodying everything that's wrong with the world? Kay. But don't be fucking BOTH! God.

 

Hah! I gotta tell you, though, I find whiny martyr and bullyish asshole go hand in hand SO VERY OFTEN.

[iMonrey]

When did Sir M figure out that Evelyn was a witch who put a spell on him? I walked out of the room and must have missed something. He doesn't seem all that bright to me, ie, going to confront her by himself.

Did the Pinkerton guy turn? I expected old One Hand of Scotland Yard to mention another attack but nada.

The only thing I can think of is when Malcolm was coming out of the haze he could hear Evelyn chanting over his voodoo doll. Well, we could hear her, and there was some indication he might be hearing her too.

[rubinia]

Victorian men were oppressed and abused?

I think the OP was referring to gay/closeted Victorian men, i.e., Angelique, Mr. Lyle, Oscar Wilde.

 

Lily.........Oh boy, Here Go Hell Come. 

LOL! Calvin! Lily's rant was amazing. My husband and I were just staring at the screen, open mouthed, the whole time. Especially when she was talking about various orifices being bloody...yikes.

[LittleIggy]

How can Bronilly and Caliban create more of themselves? I doubt their reproductive organs function. They would need Victor to make more monsters.

[Ravenya003]

OMG, I just saw a post on Tumblr (yeah, I know, not the best place for reasoned discourse) that accuses Lily of "disregarding Victor's feelings" and being "in the process of wounding him deeply". The minor detail that Victor smothered her to death with a pillow? "She was already dying."

 

Yeah, it's probably just a teenage girl with a crush on Harry Treadwell, but honestly - that some young women can spin situations like this into abused woman=bitch, manipulative man=misunderstood woobie is just plain terrifying to me. What must their real-life outlook on male/female relationships be? *clutches pearls*

 

And my desire to see Lily strangle Victor to death and burn the place down afterwards has just quadrupled. Unfortunately I get the sinking feeling this story is going to end with Victor/Caliban teaming up to take down the Scary Vengeful Woman. Don't do it Penny Dreadful! You've subverted tropes before!

 

Also: my two cents on the "who is Lucifer's brother?" is that it's definitely NOT Dorian Grey. In the same scene this concept is introduced, the gang identifies him as the Vampire Master who kidnapped Mina (the prophecy speaks of one fallen angel cursed to "drink the blood of the living"). So it's the as-yet unnamed and unseen Dracula. 

 

Still not sure how Dorian fits into this entire story, though it looks like he'll be hooking up with Lily next week.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Ravenya003

[FurryFury]

How can Bronilly and Caliban create more of themselves? I doubt their reproductive organs function. They would need Victor to make more monsters.

I've noticed this as well, and I hope to see this phrase explored. It's quite possible she wants to learn the secret of resurrection from Victor and to make more undead monsters.

 

I think the OP was referring to gay/closeted Victorian men, i.e., Angelique, Mr. Lyle, Oscar Wilde.

 

I don't think Angelique is a man, isn't she basically a pre-op transsexual? But of course, I'm far from an expert in these subjects.

 

OMG, I just saw a post on Tumblr (yeah, I know, not the best place for reasoned discourse) that accuses Lily of "disregarding Victor's feelings" and being "in the process of wounding him deeply". The minor detail that Victor smothered her to death with a pillow? "She was already dying."

Yeah, it's probably just a teenage girl with a crush on Harry Treadwell, but honestly - that some young women can spin situations like this into abused woman=bitch, manipulative man=misunderstood woobie is just plain terrifying to me. What must their real-life outlook on male/female relationships be? *clutches pearls*

And my desire to see Lily strangle Victor to death and burn the place down afterwards has just quadrupled. Unfortunately I get the sinking feeling this story is going to end with Victor/Caliban teaming up to take down the Scary Vengeful Woman. Don't do it Penny Dreadful! You've subverted tropes before!

 

I don't think either Brona/Lily or Victor are villains in this situation. He may have smothered her but he wanted to save her, in his way. She was dying of an incurable disease, after all. I guess I could see his point of view. 

I also hope the show won't make it into an EvilLily vs GoodMen because I really, really loved how her speech called out the inherent unfairness of the Victorian system in regards to gender. It gave me goosebumps, really. So I think that the show understands that Lily's a victim, not a villain.

 

Also: my two cents on the "who is Lucifer's brother?" is that it's definitely NOT Dorian Grey. In the same scene this concept is introduced, the gang identifies him as the Vampire Master who kidnapped Mina

 

Which is exactly why some people think it's Dorian. It would be way too convenient otherwise. Red herrings exist for a reason.

Edited June 24, 2015 by FurryFury

[rubinia]

Well...I suppose Angelique can fall under the umbrella of LGBT, then...

 

 

In the same scene this concept is introduced, the gang identifies him as the Vampire Master who kidnapped Mina

 

Don't they also say that the brother who was banished to earth was forced to feed on the blood of the living? That sounds like a vampire to me, although I suppose you could argue that if Dorian is out killing people he's "feeding" on their blood in a sense, too...

Edited June 24, 2015 by rubinia

[2AT]

My 2 cents: Dorian made his Faustian deal with Lucifer's brother and will be enslaved by him for eternity (represented by his chained image in the portrait).

[BuddhaBelly]

 

I don't think either Brona/Lily or Victor are villains in this situation. He may have smothered her but he wanted to save her, in his way. She was dying of an incurable disease, after all. I guess I could see his point of view.

 

He saved her for his own use. I can't pretend he was being altruistic in any way. He didn't save her to give her an opportunity to start over or be again with the man she loved. He reanimated her to get Caliban off this back and then fell for her himself. 

 

I still believe that she was starting to remember her past when Peter bought the clothing for her. Her comments about women dressing for the male gaze came too far out of left field not to be a hint. 

[FurryFury]

He saved her for his own use. I can't pretend he was being altruistic in any way. He didn't save her to give her an opportunity to start over or be again with the man she loved. He reanimated her to get Caliban off this back and then fell for her himself.

 

Well, he did think it was better than death, I guess. I never said he was altruistic, but I think he didn't view it as evil. Maybe the following events will make him reevaluate his position (I hope so).

[maczero]

 I also hope the show won't make it into an EvilLily vs GoodMen because I really, really loved how her speech called out the inherent unfairness of the Victorian system in regards to gender. It gave me goosebumps, really. So I think that the show understands that Lily's a victim, not a villain.

Based on her speech, I'd say she's a villain.  She's not just targeting men who wronged her but all men.  Not to mention, she seems bent on her and her kind dominating humanity (women included).

[cali1981]

I was just looking at the clip of Lily and Clare on YouTube and someone posted one of the funniest comments ever:

"Why is Billie Piper yelling at Meatloaf?".

[Dobian]

I was just looking at the clip of Lily and Clare on YouTube and someone posted one of the funniest comments ever:

"Why is Billie Piper yelling at Meatloaf?".

 

Being that Meatloaf was in Rocky Horror Picture Show, there is a definite connection here.  Will we be seeing Bronily and Caliban break out into a rendition of "Time Warp" soon?

[luckyroll3]

My 2 cents: Dorian made his Faustian deal with Lucifer's brother and will be enslaved by him for eternity (represented by his chained image in the portrait).

Interesting. I actually think Dorian made a deal with Lucifer, and when the time comes, Lucifer will claim his fee in the form of possessing Dorian, allowing him to walk the earth. I've thought this since season 1, but who the hell knows.

[qtpye]

I also hope the show won't make it into an EvilLily vs GoodMen because I really, really loved how her speech called out the inherent unfairness of the Victorian system in regards to gender. It gave me goosebumps, really. So I think that the show understands that Lily's a victim, not a villain.

 

 

 

Based on her speech, I'd say she's a villain.  She's not just targeting men who wronged her but all men.  Not to mention, she seems bent on her and her kind dominating humanity (women included).

 

 

I also remember her saying to Meatloaf (sorry Caliban) that if he wanted women, he would get him five to fuck or something equally as lewd.  I do not think she cares for anyone but herself.  Brona, for all her horrible circumstances. was actually a sweet person.

 

I actually think the nicest person in the series might be Angelique.  She was too good for Dorian.

 

Excellent episode.  I wish this series would get some Emmy love.

[Sakura12]

Brona told Caliban that she'd get him women and they'd fuck them together. 

 

Brona was a nice person before she died, so I think she is right in saying that Victor brought demons back with them. You can't play God by giving people life without consequences. 

[FurryFury]

I think I like the Dorian as a future vessel for Lucifer theory. Or maybe he already is somewhere inside of him? You know, kinda like Ben and Glory.

[Dutchabbey]

I think I like the Dorian as a future vessel for Lucifer theory. Or maybe he already is somewhere inside of him? You know, kinda like Ben and Glory.

 

So wait...Ben is Glory???

 

I've been a fan of Billie Piper's since her Doctor Who days and loved her in Diary of a Call Girl but I was totally blown away by her performance throughout this episode.  She and Rory Kinnear had such a bizarre yet believeable chemistry during their scene together.  I've watched this episode three times already because I can't get enough of it!  While I've adored Penny Dreadful from the beginning because dark British period pieces are the stuff I live for, this surpassed my wildest expectations.  So happy they renewed this show for a third season.

[crowswork]

Piper did diary of a call girl about a call girl who said she liked sex and money so why not. Most of the series was her screwing and looking kinda bored but once she tried being a dominatrix. She beat that guy like  a rug. Filled with rage as he screamed safe words. They never mentioned it again but it was clear she had some deep rage.

 

She can play the sweet or the sour or scary.

Edited June 27, 2015 by crowswork

[Slovenly Muse]

Wow, finally got around to watching this episode and it was amazing!

 

I actually really liked Dorian's portrait. He is, in many ways, a prisoner of his situation. In the book, he takes every opportunity to relieve himself of responsibility for his wickedness and takes no blame for himself. Each thing his does is, in his mind, a natural step in what he is experiencing, and that is all because of the portrait. He's afraid to leave the house for very long, because while he's away he's afraid of someone stumbling across the painting. He is isolated from his social circle and from all of the trappings of Victorian society as he is pushed further and further into the pursuit of pleasure. And removed from the bounds of mortality and consequences, those pleasures he seeks become darker and darker... I like that the portrait was not just ugly and disfugured, like some previous portraits have been (they're gross, sure, but what do they really MEAN?), but that it actually expressed his situation in a new way, the truth of him. An old, decrepit, pathetic figure chained to a painting. Is that figure really evil-looking? Well, it alters after each sin. Before the casual murder of Angelique, that evil may not have been truly present. Sure, he was always bored and selfish, but seemed capable of real affection too. But after that murder, when it changed, THAT is the Dorian we are dealing with now. I am so on board!

 

Lilly was amazing, of course. Caliban went in there intending to "take" her, believing he owned her. Now it's pretty clear who owns who! Can't wait to see how this plays out!

 

Sir Malcolm deserves to be the damsel in distress after that stupid stunt. I'm trying to remember, has he really contributed anything instrumental this season? Or has he just been a big, dumb dupe the whole way through? Hey, I have no issues with that! After the reveal last season that his exploration of Africa was basically an egomaniacal rape-fest, I have zero problems with the show taking a long, satisfying dump on his head. I'm quite enjoying it, to be honest.

 

This episode was so great, I didn't even miss my two favourite characters, still out on the moors and wearing fabulous knitwear together, I assume!

[MsChipper]

I don't understand this either. Have they ever explained why Vanessa is the chosen one to be the devil's bride?

 

 

It's been hinted that she may be the incarnate of Amunet back in Season 1. And if Amunra and Amunet ever got together - it would be the end of days, and darkness eternal, bla bla.

 

 

Everyone seems to be forgetting that Lyle is still technically under the employ of the witches. Sent specifically to mess with the translation. Now I also think he's 98% Team Vanessa but he could be lying about some integral part of that translation.

 

A few episodes ago Lyle asked Evelyn if she wanted him to misdirect the Scoobies with the translations and she told him not to. She wanted them to come to her once they figured it out.

 

Or maybe he's actually Ethan's evil counterpart? I mean, we've just seen Ethan in chains as well.

 

Interesting. I actually think Dorian made a deal with Lucifer, and when the time comes, Lucifer will claim his fee in the form of possessing Dorian, allowing him to walk the earth. I've thought this since season 1, but who the hell knows.

I really like the idea. The Hound of God vs. the Beautiful Boy of Lucifer

(ironic that they slept together too!)

 

Personally, I'm just wondering how the heck did Sir M even knew where Evelyn lived. Did he ever visit her place before???

[luckyroll3]

I like that the portrait was not just ugly and disfugured, like some previous portraits have been (they're gross, sure, but what do they really MEAN?), but that it actually expressed his situation in a new way, the truth of him. An old, decrepit, pathetic figure chained to a painting. Is that figure really evil-looking? Well, it alters after each sin. Before the casual murder of Angelique, that evil may not have been truly present. Sure, he was always bored and selfish, but seemed capable of real affection too. But after that murder, when it changed, THAT is the Dorian we are dealing with now. I am so on board!

I absolutely love your description of this and it makes sense within the context of what we were shown.  I love the idea of Dorian being chained to the painting in such a way that he can't escape from it, and his always "looking for new experiences" is a way to break free from that, even if only for a moment of pleasure.  It kinds of gives this perception of him as a tragic figure, which is so overt in all the other "monsters" presented on the show, but hasn't been for him because of how vain and selfish he comes across as.  I don't know....this view makes me even more interested to learn more about the direction they're going in with him.

[blixie]

 

is going to end with Victor/Caliban teaming up to take down the Scary Vengeful Woman. Don't do it Penny Dreadful! You've subverted tropes before!

 

I feel like the show is sticking fairly faithfully to the spirit of Mary Shelley, and that's definitely not the trajectory of that story, although I could see Caliban not being on board with her Domination and murder of puny humans ueber plan she has, I'm thinking Ethan will factor in her ultimate end, but I hope most of that story plays out next season.

 

I have always  believed that Vanessa was Sir Malcolm's child, but I think she already is in practical effect if not by actual blood relationship, and Evelyn was probably messing with him more than expressing any empirical knowledge.

[loki567]

Am I the only one who thinks this isn't all Brona?  I mean I can understand Brona wanting payback against men because of her shitty life.  But this chick also wants to screw over humanity as well.  Not to mention she seemed a bit of a megalomaniac.  This really doesn't sound like Brona.  I'm under the impression that something evil hitched a ride back when the body was brought back to life.

It kinda sounded that way to me.  I'm hoping it isn't.  

 

I'm still catching up on the show so they might go into greater in detail in the next two episodes but that was my thought as well. And that ties it all back to the main plot, Victor isn't resurrecting corpses so much as inadvertently shackling demons or whatever into human bodies. 

[Peanut6711]

I didn't see Dorian killing Angelique as evil as much as I saw it as self-preservation. Angelique saw the painting/knew his secret; Dorian wasn't about to take that risk, especially with a mere mortal, a plaything at that because let's face it, that's really all Angelique was to him and that's all he purpose the character served in the script. I suspect if Dorian was to entrust the secret to anyone and allow them to live to tell about it, so to speak, it would be Vanessa or Ethan who also have their own secrets/supernatural abilities.

Quote

Victorian men were oppressed and abused?

Victorian culture was oppressive to both sexes having very rigid definitions of gender roles. 

[ganesh]

Dorian was also getting bored with her at that point too.

[Bruinsfan]

On 6/22/2015 at 11:21 PM, ganesh said:

I think that one scene was the best acting of BP's than all of Doctor Who. How did she figure out who she was though? She knows Victor created her. Does she know Brona now too? I do love how this show makes me laugh. Caliban was all "you are mine blah blah" and she totally flips on him. I thought he peed himself.

I never much cared for Piper on Doctor Who, but that was likely the best performance in the entirety of this series. I felt like giving a standing ovation in my living room! Love that John Clare is being schooled about being careful what he wishes for. He got his perfect monster bride, and she's scarier than he ever dreamed of being!