S02.E14: 6 Months Later

[Wings]

Thank you LDK615 for sharing your inside information, greatly appreciated!   And same to you, inonomous for asking your source to answer our questions.  Pass on a kudos to your source, too.  Stellar spoiling!  *** clap clap clap clap clap clap clap***

[seasick]

 

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since the whole money issue was brought up, wonder if she was expecting old school matchmaking where such a match would usually be filtered out unless the participants don't have stringent expectations ~ they generally will not match unequal partners because they see it as a potential minefield for conflicts. so the parameters for filtering would include status, education, job & salary among others.  she may have expected something similar where she expected them to match her specific lifestyle on every level and hence her anger that they didn't deliver... this was as you described ~ a mail order marriage kind of situation.

I do think this is very close to my belief on the matter re: Davina..  She appeared FURIOUS with the experts, far more than she was with Sean.  I'm not sure she expected exact matches on every aspect, but I do think that is an important thing to consider in matchmaking, and actually on those levels he was pretty close.  

 

No. I think she was ready to spit in their faces for putting Sean on the show, period.   His issues were blatant, beginning with his grief for losing a child. ( and not just so soon after that tragedy, but how it fit in with his 'poor me' persona)   and so on and so on. He's definitely on the spectrum somewhere.

 

 I think she originally held the experts in high regard and is appalled and spitting mad at what I think she considers to be  gross negligence.    This goes beyond incompetency.   I think she holds them to a higher standard and rightfully so. On some level most of us seem to agree that the serious red flags on these guys could not have been missed. 

[crazychicken]

I have to admit I have a soft spot for Davina as I am like her in that I am willing to help somebody but only if they are willing to help themselves, I quickly lose patience with people that constantly moan about the same things yet do nothing to change situation and once I lose patience there is no coming back. I will be polite but I will no longer listen to the whining and cut them off so probably do come across as cold and disinterested. We heard over and over from Sean about how he needed to step up and fix the situation yet his actions didn't reflect that, now we know that he pretty much only turned up for filming we know why Davina thought he wasn't present because he wasn't not just emotionally but physically.  Sean & Ryan R say the right things yet never follow through, Jac handled it a lot more graciously then I would she gave him more chances than what he deserved.

 

Now I have finally watched the whole reunion after 3 attempts I didn't even make it to the 5 minute mark the first time as when Sean came out with his hunched shoulder and said meek "nice to meet you Mr Frasier" I say red I thought you fake bastard how can the experts not see what a manipulative jackhole you are. When he got into the conversation his whole meek demeanor dropped until he had to play the victim card again when he suffered 'severe' anxiety at the thought of seeing Davina that was my second straw. Not even Ryan douche bothered me as much as Sean's fakeness, and then we got Ryan R he had me fooled I really thought he was genuine, turns out he is just a great smooth talker, talk about telling everybody what they want to hear, he made it sound like he made an effort when on the couch alone and was put on the spot when asked if him and Jac were still together with her there. The look he gave her said to me you answer but don't rat me out, no wonder the coward deleted his social media he has been getting the good guy edit and he was the biggest douche of the lot.

[buckbuck]

As far as I'm concerned, none of the women can be blamed for not trying hard enough.

 

As soon as the asses in production chose those three guys and didn't do their due diligence in checking them out thoroughly, the whole sad exercise became moot and instead became a charade.

 

There was nothing to try for.

 

So a hearty F**K YOU to the producers, Cilona, blondie and Epstein.

 

(I give Dr. Pepper a pass because she seemed genuine.)

[Snarklepuss]

I do think this is very close to my belief on the matter re: Davina..  She appeared FURIOUS with the experts, far more than she was with Sean.  I'm not sure she expected exact matches on every aspect, but I do think that is an important thing to consider in matchmaking, and actually on those levels he was pretty close.  

 

No. I think she was ready to spit in their faces for putting Sean on the show, period.   His issues were blatant, beginning with his grief for losing a child. ( and not just so soon after that tragedy, but how it fit in with his 'poor me' persona)   and so on and so on. He's definitely on the spectrum somewhere.

 

 I think she originally held the experts in high regard and is appalled and spitting mad at what I think she considers to be  gross negligence.    This goes beyond incompetency.   I think she holds them to a higher standard and rightfully so. On some level most of us seem to agree that the serious red flags on these guys could not have been missed. 

 

Yep, and it's my theory that Davina felt this way early on - probably the moment in the sleigh when she cried was the moment she realized she had been handed a total poseur dud and was screwed.  Her anger came through in everything she did and she found it impossible to play act like someone who was totally invested in the process or had any respect for Sean, something which the audience misinterpreted as her impossibly high standards.  Meanwhile it was really her justified outrage at being given a real jerk.  Then the editors make Sean look as good as possible, making her look as bad as possible.  Then the public makes erroneous conclusions based on what they see and crucifies Davina.  Then the experts chime in so as to try to make her look bad and save their reputations.  It really has to suck to be her.  I think it says a lot that Jaclyn was so defensive towards negative posts about her online.

[Wings]

I think Sean was relieved his child was miscarried. He doesn't

radiate daddy vibes.

[crazychicken]

What are you guy talking about, you expect that the first requirement of the experiment to get married was they be mature enough for marriage, don't you guys listen to the experts actually I still have no idea on what they think the most important quality is, sexiness, shared childhood bullying I do not think they even know why they paired these couples.

[GeorgiaRai]

... I think she was so hurt by her perceived rejection from Ryan and some of his shitty comments to her (I say perceived because I don't know how much of it was an actual rejection at least in the beginning) that she became vindictive and wanted to get him back for it.  She saw that he was a hothead so she did everything she could to instigate his anger and thus make him look as bad as she possibly could on camera, thus getting sympathy and making him look even more like an evil monster. 

...What I say about her pushing him still doesn't get him off, though.  He does have responsibility for that.  Just not as much as I think people might be giving him, though.

 

I didn't see her this way at first, but with everything that's happened since the Decision Day episode aired, I've come agree.  I'm not sure if she did it in a totally mean-hearted way or was acting more out of a need for validation, but the end result, IMO, was definitely setting up Ryan up to look evil & herself to look like the sympathetic victim.

From this article: http://nypost.com/2015/06/15/married-at-first-sight-hubby-threatened-to-kill-me-bride/

If July 13 comes and goes and it's all thrown out-I'll apologize to Ryan (in absentia) for thinking he could actually hurt someone. I'll probably always think he's an immature jerk, though.  

 

Thanks for all the links you've provided, Rules.  It looks like the main source for all of the allegations is the New York Post's claims of what is in the petition.  I'm sorry to say that I've come around to believing that these reports are true (not necessarily true about Ryan, but true in that they are the allegations made by Jessica in her petition).  The most disturbing aspect of this entire thing to me is that someone revealed confidential court files to the media - that's a horrific breach of privacy. 

Anyway, I don't know what (if anything) from the hearing will be made public, but I doubt you'll owe Ryan an apology.  :)  He seems to be over Jess (if he was ever actually invested to begin with) and to have a thick enough skin to survive all the hate directed at him from strangers/MAFS fans, so I think he'll come out of this just fine.  As will Jess.  I just wish they'd BOTH shown better judgment and better behavior throughout this "experiment". 

 

[princelina]

Her anger came through in everything she did and she found it impossible to play act like someone who was totally invested in the process or had any respect for Sean, something which the audience misinterpreted as her impossibly high standards.  Meanwhile it was really her justified outrage at being given a real jerk.  Then the editors make Sean look as good as possible, making her look as bad as possible.  Then the public makes erroneous conclusions based on what they see and crucifies Davina.  Then the experts chime in so as to try to make her look bad and save their reputations.  It really has to suck to be her.

 

That's why I think she had such a great "whatever" attitude towards them and Sean at the reunion - she probably realized through the other girls and her SM shenanigans that enough of us could see the truth about him and them, so she just showed up to roll her eyeballs and let them yell at her a final time.

[rulesoftravel]

 

I just wish they'd BOTH shown better judgment and better behavior throughout this "experiment".

I wish they had both shown better judgment and not done the "experiment."

[seasick]

I think Sean was relieved his child was miscarried. He doesn't

radiate daddy vibes.

I can agree.  But it sure made for another great reason to all feel sorry for poor  boo-boo Sean. 

 

And I can't help but bring this up.  When Kevin asked Sean about spending more time apart then together  and Sean defended it with his typical 'stress and anxiety' excuse,  Sean then went on to drop what he thought was a huge (low blow) bombshell:

 

"Davina made a comment to me that rings in my head to this day when she had said    'i'm not going to be your caretaker"  

This got no reaction 'cuz..."Yeah!! this is a marriage Sean, not the ER at the psych ward!!!.

 

When this did not get the anticipated reaction, he went on to say   "she said  'you need to be here for ME..  ( selfish and cold hearted Davina)  

 

Uck!  I hope I'm done!  lol (but i'm not counting on it)

[BunnySlippers]

Article about Ryan and Jac never getting together after reunion

http://www.examiner.com/article/married-at-first-sight-update-did-ryan-and-jaclyn-stay-together-after-reunion

 

Thanks for the link. Too bad that article makes it seem like it was both Ryan's and Jac's fault for them not getting back together. We all know that is not the truth...

 

[aven]

At first, I favored Jaclyn and Ryan R, but once Ryan showed his true, immature self, I hoped Jaclyn would just move on, so when she decided to "stay married," I was tremendously disappointed. Now, six months later, it's not surprising that their relationship did not work, and I'm relieved that Jaclyn has moved on and away from that loser, Baby Ryan.  Even at the end, he was still offering insincere apologies and could hardly wait to get back to his comfort zone-- the basement.  Good riddance!  The other two couples also never stood a chance--weak men with strong women.  

[Snarklepuss]

The thing that separates Jaclyn from Davina is that Jaclyn actually fell for Ryan as he's not quite as fucked up as Sean (which admittedly isn't saying much) and his issues weren't as blatantly apparent and didn't feel insurmountable even when she found out about them.  Even if Jac knew at some point that he has someone in the wings already occupying his heart she can still hope that his heart will change.  So she put everything she could into making the relationship work and it showed on screen.  Even at the reunion I felt like she was keeping up appearances so as not to jinx any potential change of heart from him in the future.  She doesn't want to burn her bridges.  I felt so sorry for her and I identify because I was once in a very similar situation.

 

Meanwhile Davina couldn't possibly fall for Sean because in my opinion she figured out early on due to his obvious blatant issues that he was not for real.  So she couldn't possibly act like she was putting everything into the relationship and bend over backwards to make it work because what was there to put anything into if he was a phony and completely checked out?  I feel sorry for her because as a result she looked like the bad guy to most of the public who didn't have the benefit of any inside info. and rumors.

[okerry]

I think Sean was relieved his child was miscarried. He doesn't

radiate daddy vibes.

I hate to say it, but I think Sean really, really wanted that story to be told on the show so he could say, "SEE, I'M NOT GAY, I KNOCKED UP A CHICK, AND I GET LOTS OF GIRLS, THIS ONE WASN'T EVEN A SERIOUS ONE, JUST BECAUSE DAVINA WON'T SLEEP WITH ME, HEY, LOADS OF OTHER WOMEN DO," blah blah blah.

 

Cynical of me, yes, but that's what comes of watching this show. I was stunned when I saw him put that story out there. That, alone, was reason enough that he should never have been on the show - first because it was too soon, and second, because he was blabbing it all over national TV. Never heard a word about the mother and how she felt about this. But apparently Sean thought he'd get the mileage out of it that HE wanted (see caps above!) so there it was.

[trashjunkie]

And I can't help but bring this up.  When Kevin asked Sean about spending more time apart then together  and Sean defended it with his typical 'stress and anxiety' excuse,  Sean then went on to drop what he thought was a huge (low blow) bombshell:

 

"Davina made a comment to me that rings in my head to this day when she had said    'i'm not going to be your caretaker"

This got no reaction 'cuz..."Yeah!! this is a marriage Sean, not the ER at the psych ward!!!.

 

Yup!  He said that and I was like "...And?"

I've dated guys who need/want caretakers, that shit gets old real quick.

Now I'm a nurturing person, and my husband would definitely back me up on that, but I'm not anyone's mother.  Take care of your damn self.

[cherry slushie]

I just remembered something.  Doug from Season 1 said Sean has never been in a relationship.  The man is 34 yrs old!  By now, he should have at least one relationship under his belt, even if it was only a few months long.  He has never shared his life, other than a few sexual romps, with a woman.

 

Even ignoring the fact that the man has severe anxiety issues, this should have set off huge red flags and blaring bells and whistles to the 'experts', but it's obvious they based their choice on his looks, thinking a mutual physical attraction (same with Jessica and Ryan) would make for a perfect coupling and good TV.

 

On another note; from now on, if this show continues past Season 3, it should be a stipulation in the contract that the participants MUST live together for the 6 week experiment.  No running home to Mommy, ex-girlfriends, or less scary suburbia!

[algebra]

Yup! He said that and I was like "...And?"

I've dated guys who need/want caretakers, that shit gets old real quick.

Now I'm a nurturing person, and my husband would definitely back me up on that, but I'm not anyone's mother. Take care of your damn self.

I agree. If he wants a mommy he should move back in with his own. Doesn't she have a basement too?

[okerry]

I just remembered something.  Doug from Season 1 said Sean has never been in a relationship.  The man is 34 yrs old!  By now, he should have at least one relationship under his belt, even if it was only a few months long.  He has never shared his life, other than a few sexual romps, with a woman.

 

Even ignoring the fact that the man has severe anxiety issues, this should have set off huge red flags and blaring bells and whistles to the 'experts', but it's obvious they based their choice on his looks, thinking a mutual physical attraction (same with Jessica and Ryan) would make for a perfect coupling and good TV.

 

On another note; from now on, if this show continues past Season 3, it should be a stipulation in the contract that the participants MUST live together for the 6 week experiment.  No running home to Mommy, ex-girlfriends, or less scary suburbia!

Yes. If it's known ahead of time that they have to live together or face breach of contract, that might eliminate a LOT of the wrong people. Good call.

 

Just for fun, what else should be added to the contracts to make things better next time? (Mods, feel free to move this if necessary - )

[Snarklepuss]

I just remembered something.  Doug from Season 1 said Sean has never been in a relationship.  The man is 34 yrs old!  By now, he should have at least one relationship under his belt, even if it was only a few months long.  He has never shared his life, other than a few sexual romps, with a woman.

 

Even ignoring the fact that the man has severe anxiety issues, this should have set off huge red flags and blaring bells and whistles to the 'experts', but it's obvious they based their choice on his looks, thinking a mutual physical attraction (same with Jessica and Ryan) would make for a perfect coupling and good TV.

 

I could have predicted that about Sean before hearing it from Doug.  I have said before that he pings to me as a complete commitment-phobe.  He has severe anxiety at the thought of having to follow through on any kind of relationship commitment (and I'm sure this was not lost on Davina).  That is why he acted the way he did with Davina.  It wasn't HER that caused his anxiety, it was his issues.  When he said at the reunion that just the thought of her now makes him anxious I wanted to punch him in the face - That's his commitment phobia talking.  He made his issues Davina's fault, the total prick.  I am sure he never really wanted a relationship - He is a freaking liar.  He went into this just wanting his 15 minutes of fame, a few rolls in the hay and perhaps the prospect of getting on "The Bachelor".  He probably heard that he could get a lot of women interested in him for just sex if he did this show.  Plus he knew that he could fall back on his slippery non-commitment skills to get out of the marriage all the while making it look like it's the woman's fault it didn't last.

 

BTW, there are several books on commitment phobia.  Too bad the so-called "experts" never read them.  But I did and now I'm even more convinced that they had little to do with choosing Sean as marriage material for this show.  His issues would be like a big neon sign for any reputable relationship psychologist interviewing him.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Snarklepuss

[Bella]

Yes. If it's known ahead of time that they have to live together or face breach of contract, that might eliminate a LOT of the wrong people. Good call.

Just for fun, what else should be added to the contracts to make things better next time? (Mods, feel free to move this if necessary - )

I'm still visiting my mom and attempting to mod by phone, which is not optimal.

So if you could start a new thread with the title Fix the Show, I'd be grateful. We really need something like that IMO.

[cherry slushie]

Even at the reunion I felt like she was keeping up appearances so as not to jinx any potential change of heart from him in the future.  She doesn't want to burn her bridges.  I felt so sorry for her and I identify because I was once in a very similar situation.

 

 

Yes! So much Yes to this!  I was thinking the same thing and have also done it myself.  Hopefully Jac will start spilling more now that the chance of him having a change of heart are pretty much dead in the water.

 

 

Yes. If it's known ahead of time that they have to live together or face breach of contract, that might eliminate a LOT of the wrong people. Good call.

Exactly!  It should include something like; The participant must live (spend the night, or however they might word it) a set number of days, like at least 38 out of the 42 days, or it's breach of contract and they don't get paid.

[Adiba]

There is a huge difference in talking back to him and purposely being an ass by throwing $100 at him and smashing his watches.  She is not innocent in this.

Sorry if this has been answered before, but did Ryan D actually take the $100 that was thrown at him?

[rulesoftravel]

Short answer: yes.

[Adiba]

Short answer: yes.

Thanks--I thought so, but I was sort of half-watching the reunion.

So he kept the money. Snort.

[Vinyasa]

Sorry if this has been answered before, but did Ryan D actually take the $100 that was thrown at him?

 

Yes, but he didn't use the "Best Day Ever" money clip!!!

[JapMo]

I'd keep the money, too. Screw her.

[Waterlilly]

Well he has done that too. In several ways.

[Phoenix]

Davina's statement about Sean not knowing who he is was clear.  Sean is gay.  The experts seemed oblivious to what she was implying. 

 

And is was unbearable watching him desperately trying to portray himself as a victim.  He was pathetic.  Yes, it was clear he needed Davina to be his caretaker.  He is weak, frail and all about being a long suffering, anxiety ridden, put upon person who never recovered from his past.  And he thought these traits would make someone a good husband??!!!  He wanted Kevin and the experts to see Davina as a bully.  Considering what Sean put her through she handled herself with class....and she even had the experts against her, blindly not seeing Sean for what he is...a pathetic weak "man", a poser, a fast talker (both literally and figuratively) and a fraud.

 

The way he entered all humped over and then addressing Kevin as Mr. Frazier was manipulative and sickening to see. He gave nods to the experts in an attempt to ensure they were in his corner, as always. 

 

It's hideous Davina has to live with a divorce in her public record...she went into this process trusting all was legit.

[Chaos Theory]

And here I was going to volunteer for the show to find me a husband but I think I'd have better luck with a magic 8ball.

Come on 8ball......."reply hazy try again."

Edited June 18, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[cardigirl]

I could have predicted that about Sean before hearing it from Doug.  I have said before that he pings to me as a complete commitment-phobe.  He has severe anxiety at the thought of having to follow through on any kind of relationship commitment (and I'm sure this was not lost on Davina).  That is why he acted the way he did with Davina.  It wasn't HER that caused his anxiety, it was his issues.  When he said at the reunion that just the thought of her now makes him anxious I wanted to punch him in the face - That's his commitment phobia talking.  He made his issues Davina's fault, the total prick.  I am sure he never really wanted a relationship - He is a freaking liar.  He went into this just wanting his 15 minutes of fame, a few rolls in the hay and perhaps the prospect of getting on "The Bachelor".  He probably heard that he could get a lot of women interested in him for just sex if he did this show.  Plus he knew that he could fall back on his slippery non-commitment skills to get out of the marriage all the while making it look like it's the woman's fault it didn't last.

 

BTW, there are several books on commitment phobia.  Too bad the so-called "experts" never read them.  But I did and now I'm even more convinced that they had little to do with choosing Sean as marriage material for this show.  His issues would be like a big neon sign for any reputable relationship psychologist interviewing him.

How many long term relationships had Davina had?  I can't remember what her response as to why she wanted to try the experiment.  

[Vinyasa]

It's hideous Davina has to live with a divorce in her public record...she went into this process trusting all was legit.

 

It is hideous that Jaclyn and Jessica have to also have a divorce on record. I could really care less if Sean has it on his record. Move over DUI.

 

Wonder if the show pays for the divorces?

[Pollock]

Stupid question I feel but here we go: why is it a problem having a divorce on public record? Does this have consequences in the US? I don't feel like there is much of a stigma with divorce anymore outside of religious community but maybe it's different in America?

 

And if divorce is damaging somehow, another stupid question while I'm at it: can the women try get an annulment instead of a divorce? I mean the pairing were obviously and blatantly a sham, at least for Jessica and Davina, can't they claim they were duped or something like that? With all this being on camera, it seems pretty obvious that neither of them were really married so, could that help?

[algebra]

Interesting question; for some reason "marital status" is a box on almost every official form we have here.

There have been cases of former spouse's assets being seized for tax liens and such. It's so easy to hide assets under a spouse's name that often it is assumed that's what you've done. It's sort of up to you to prove your assets really are yours, not a former spouse's. So I suppose if your ex runs up a lot of debt, the creditor might come after you even if it's been years since you were married.

[Gigi43]

For Davina, I'm assuming the benefit of calling it quits after the 6 weeks means the show takes care of the divorce process. I've just been assuming it's in whatever contract that's signed to be on the show, sort of like a pre-nup, that the parties just walk away with what they have and the show covers and fees, otherwise I think it's far less likely people would sign up risking to have to give money/property to someone they've only known for six weeks. For Jessica and Jaclyn, they chose to stay married, meaning they chose to risk having to handle a divorce on their own. I don't feel bad for any of them for having to get a divorce. Sure, any marriage can end in divorce, but they all signed up to maybe get divorced in 6 weeks. They chose high odds of getting divorced. I do feel bad if the show promised them a spouce that was vetted and background checked, but then gave them people with records and important stability issues to know about, and have "experts" trying to convince them too stay anyway because that is wrong/misrepresentation. I said in another post I get some of these people maybe really thinking maybe they could meet someone decent based on two of the last season couples, but, if they expected no chance of getting a divorce/ really only get a perfect match, on a reality dating show that's premise involves a possible divorce (and one couple from last season did split after 6 weeks), their extreme naivety is on no one but themselves. Even if any of them were in a happy marriage now, that doesn't mean 3 years from now they won't divorce. 50% of married couples end up divorcing, it could happen to any couple who enters into a marriage and they all married with divorce already on the table.

 

Anyway I happened to see the ratings for the A&E airing. I find it odd the added on 10pm Part 2 actually had a few hundred thousand more viewers than the first hour. I believe the number was 1.26 million and 1.32 million. I wonder if the Ryan/Jessica news had people look for the listing and assume maybe the 2nd part would include the talked about threats.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Gigi43

[Snarklepuss]

How many long term relationships had Davina had?  I can't remember what her response as to why she wanted to try the experiment.  

 

I don't remember if her long term relationships were ever mentioned.  As to why she wanted to try the experiment, it was because she had spent so much time building her career that she needed help finding someone.  I know she wanted love, marriage and children.  She says she had tried everything (online dating, blind dates, colleagues, etc.) and still came up empty handed.  Davina strikes me as having trouble meeting someone because she put everything into her career.  Also she is very intelligent and some people may find her unapproachable.  Men are probably intimidated by her to some degree, but I'm not going to blame her for that necessarily.  It could be because they are threatened by her, like I think Sean was.  The only thing I agreed with Dr. Logan about was when she told Jaclyn in this episode that the idea that women can be too independent, too bold and too loud really bugged her.  It bus me too.  And I think there are still a lot of men out there who are put off by those qualities in women.  But even though Jaclyn was those things people liked her anyway because she was able to show her vulnerable side, which people like.  On the other hand, Davina seems to have a hard time radiating warmth and personability.  I think a lot of people saw that as coming from a superiority complex, but I didn't.  Some of those things can be related to personality.  Davina is naturally a more dispassionate type while Jaclyn is what most people would call a "people person".  I think a lot of people even today still think women should be personable and dependent and not dispassionate and independent.  The fact that Davina sticks to her guns about what she wants in a relationship and won't settle would be applauded if she were a man.  But because she's a woman she gets called a selfish bitch with impossibly high standards.  I don't think she can win.

[cardigirl]

I don't remember if her long term relationships were ever mentioned.  As to why she wanted to try the experiment, it was because she had spent so much time building her career that she needed help finding someone.  I know she wanted love, marriage and children.  She says she had tried everything (online dating, blind dates, colleagues, etc.) and still came up empty handed.  Davina strikes me as having trouble meeting someone because she put everything into her career.  Also she is very intelligent and some people may find her unapproachable.  Men are probably intimidated by her to some degree, but I'm not going to blame her for that necessarily.  It could be because they are threatened by her, like I think Sean was.  The only thing I agreed with Dr. Logan about was when she told Jaclyn in this episode that the idea that women can be too independent, too bold and too loud really bugged her.  It bus me too.  And I think there are still a lot of men out there who are put off by those qualities in women.  But even though Jaclyn was those things people liked her anyway because she was able to show her vulnerable side, which people like.  On the other hand, Davina seems to have a hard time radiating warmth and personability.  I think a lot of people saw that as coming from a superiority complex, but I didn't.  Some of those things can be related to personality.  Davina is naturally a more dispassionate type while Jaclyn is what most people would call a "people person".  I think a lot of people even today still think women should be personable and dependent and not dispassionate and independent.  The fact that Davina sticks to her guns about what she wants in a relationship and won't settle would be applauded if she were a man.  But because she's a woman she gets called a selfish bitch with impossibly high standards.  I don't think she can win.

I don't disagree with you that there are double standards applied to everything, especially relationships.  I think, though, that saying there are red flags because a man is in his 30s and has never had a serious relationship could also bring up red flags when applied to women.  There may be MANY valid reasons why someone is unattached in their 30s, especially these days.  When I was in my early 30s (back when dinosaurs roamed the earth) it was unusual to meet anyone my age who hadn't been married at least once by then.  Now, for my kids' generation, it seems the norm to wait til early 30s to begin to think about settling down.  It maybe just in my area of the country, but more and more people are delaying family and marriage while building careers, or enjoying their 20s.  So either both Davina and Sean are players, building their careers, or have not yet met THE ONE, or there is something wrong with their approach to building a loving, lasting relationship.

 

I'm not a big fan of Sean or Davina. I didn't want her to be dependent on him, although I didn't think she acted like a partner much either. I do think it was terrible of Sean to have waited til decision day (if indeed he did wait til then) to bust out all of his "concerns."  No wonder she's so angry. Let's just say that they have both had trouble finding deeper relationships, and both need to look at why.  I think Davina would probably say it's because all the men she meets do not live up to her standards, and not that maybe she needs to adjust anything about herself.  THat's my opinion based on nothing more than what I've seen on TV and then on social media with the whole twitter wars (which disgust me.)

I also wanted to say, I enjoy reading your posts Snarklepuss, as they are well written and thought out. 

[Koda1969]

Hello everyone!
I have been a long-time lurker. Love reading the comments here far more than the show, I’ll admit! Finally decided to chime in with my two cents. My husband gets up at 3 a.m. for work, so he’s in bed by 8 p.m. which leaves me to indulge in my “guilty pleasures” shows. Although, I feel like I wasted hours of my life watching this season.

That said, I’ll admit up front that I think I’m fairly human in that I see things through my own filter. My own life and experience shapes how I view people, and I think that isn’t that uncommon. It’s just human nature. My thought about reality shows is somewhat skewed now, because last year my husband listed some of his comic book collectibles online, and got a call from the producer of one of those pawn shop shows who said she’d pay him $50 just to come down and be on camera trying to pawn the items. He went, and while they didn’t make a deal right away, as he was walking out they asked if he’d sell the two items separately and when he said yes, they asked him to come back so they could re-shoot the scene. So, the “reality” part of reality TV just isn’t as un-scripted as these shows lead us to believe.

So, my thoughts on the couples (I agree with many who have said this season sucked in comparison to last season). Sean and Davina. I am no fan of Sean, and agree with most who have said he is a whiner, etc. As far as Davina, there was one thing that struck me. The scene where they are talking about money/earnings. I earn a LOT more than my husband. He will sometimes joke that when I finish my MBA and become a CEO somewhere that he wants to be my pool boy. I dragged him to another state, and while my job came with me, he had to start in a different position at his company, with a far lower pay. I don’t feel the need to discuss who earns what, because truthfully, from day one, my money is OUR money. We support my elderly mother as well, so in essence, a huge chunk of what I earn goes to supporting both households. But, as I said, I view us all as a team, and whatever I have, is ours combined. I would never dream of suggesting that earnings are a sign of success, as my husband works his tail off, and at the same time, I don’t want to emasculate him by comparing who is more successful. So, I feel that Davina did judge Sean in many ways, not the least of which was his success. Again, that doesn’t excuse his stupid behavior..Just saying that she had such a long laundry list of what she wanted and needed, that I don’t think she was fully invested either (she strikes me as the all or nothing type where if she doesn’t feel it right away, she shuts down). Likewise, people aren’t mind readers, especially if you just met. If you need something, state it clearly. I know she said things like she needed to be courted, but feel should have said “hey, you jackass, why don’t you take me to a movie or out!!” Granted, his not being there..well, I think everything has already been said here before.

Jess and Ryan - I was married to an abusive alcoholic in my 20’s, so I bristle at emotional abuse and agree that Ryan has some anger issues. But I do think Jess is a shit-stirrer. She reminds me a lot of my ex-sister-in-law. That girl could turn on the water works at the drop of a hat and play the victim perfectly. My brother was no angel, but she did everything she could to push his buttons. From day one, she tried to separate him from his family (she refused to allow me and my mother to go my twin nephew’s christening) and used the legal system at every turn to make him miserable. She never worked a day in her life, and would often berate my brother to give her more alimony after their divorce and then went to court and claimed he was an abuser to get full custody of the twins. Meanwhile, she sent him hundreds of texts telling him how she was going to “screw him”.  The family court system here errs on the side of caution, and she didn’t require proof..just came to court, sobbed and  to ensure that she and the boys were protected, allowed her to take them full-time. There are video tapes of her leaving the boys at her parents nearly every night and going out partying, but because my brother can’t afford the attorney to fight it, right now, he is helpless. About the money thing, I sort of view it like I said above. I don’t get how any money either of them had wasn’t “their money”. I know it was wedding money, but I can’t help but wonder if she didn’t use it as a way to fight with him. Again, this is just my opinion, and I don’t condone the anger he has a propensity for showing. I just get this feeling from her that she likes playing the victim.

Jac and Ryan - very little left to say that wasn’t said. He struck me as too weak from the get-go and the whole “I can’t leave mom and niece” thing to me was a bad omen. I’m glad for Jac that she now sees that stability and good character can outweigh “sparks”, sadly, Ryan isn’t that guy. But, I hope she learns from this and can recognize a “good guy” down the road. I was single through most of my 30’s as I focused on my career and going back to college. I was 43 when I met my husband. I’d actually been working with an “expert” to deal with my own baggage about men, and when I met my husband, there weren’t instant sparks. But, our first date lasted 8 hours as we talked and talked and talked. He’s a knuckle-dragger in some sense, but only in that he (still to this day) opens the car door for me, and isn’t too great with expressing feelings. But, he doesn’t walk away from a fight and will talk to me when I say I need to talk. He isn’t perfect, and I don’t have “The Notebook”, but I do know that in 20 years, he will be there by my side. That, to me, is far greater than anything else.

Lastly, my thought about the “process”. I think the concept of tests, etc. being able to find a perfect match. Well, as a veteran of dating sites back in the day, I see those types of tests as very flawed. One site that touts in commercials to “find the perfect match” well, when I’d fill out those long lists of questions, I’d somehow always get matched with weak “overly emotional” types which drove me crazy. I don’t have an issue with someone expressing their feelings, but at the same time, I can’t stand someone who over-analyzes. So, I’m not a fan of these supposed tests.

At the same time, I think that part of the issue is that human nature is that when we are taking a test, we may not be as honest, if that’s the right word. What i’m trying to say, is that if we put down on paper what we think we want and need in that moment, it may not be a true reflection of who we are. I think back to Monet in the first season, where she did say she wanted a “strong” man, and admitted after the show that she realized that she needed to re-think what she viewed as a strong man. If you say you want a sensitive man, you may end up with one who over-analyzes, etc. So, I think the notion of being able to match people just based on how they present themselves and say what they want, is probably flawed. Especially since they have to get married to said stranger.

In the long run, I think people will compromise and make sacrifices for a good relationship when they are invested in it. That investment comes, I think, with a sense of control that you “selected” the person. Having that selection made for you, I think tends to make a person less sure of the choice, if that makes sense? I think this show is flawed ultimately, because it is on television, they have to eliminate good people based on things like physical appearance, and so, they aren’t really matching based on true qualities, but what will look good on television.

I think this season, sadly, was a huge bust!

[algebra]

I agree with you: Jess is a shit-stirrer, Ryan D has anger issues, which is why they were matched, for good TV fireworks.

Jaclyn is strong and outgoing so she was matched with a recluse who lives like a spider in his mom's basement, so they were matched for TV.

Sean and Davina were also matched for maximum incompatibility. Sean was bullied as a child and deals with conflict by disappearing, Davina was abandoned as a child and reacts to a partner's disappearance with hysterics.

The experts knew exactly who they matched with whom. They deliberately matched these couples up to be as incompatible as possible, ergo, the premise was fraudulent.

[Snarklepuss]

I don't disagree with you that there are double standards applied to everything, especially relationships.  I think, though, that saying there are red flags because a man is in his 30s and has never had a serious relationship could also bring up red flags when applied to women.  There may be MANY valid reasons why someone is unattached in their 30s, especially these days.  When I was in my early 30s (back when dinosaurs roamed the earth) it was unusual to meet anyone my age who hadn't been married at least once by then.  Now, for my kids' generation, it seems the norm to wait til early 30s to begin to think about settling down.  It maybe just in my area of the country, but more and more people are delaying family and marriage while building careers, or enjoying their 20s.  So either both Davina and Sean are players, building their careers, or have not yet met THE ONE, or there is something wrong with their approach to building a loving, lasting relationship.

 

I don't have the time to list them all, but I think there has been more than enough evidence to believe that Sean is incapable of an emotionally intimate, committed relationship with a woman.  There really hasn't been enough evidence to believe that about Davina, IMO.  I'm not saying it couldn't be true, but I don't see as many red flags.  First of all, no one has come forward to claim that she's never had a long term relationship and she's never said that herself that I know of.  She's never admitted that she was ever a "player" like Sean did in his initial interviews with the show.  She seems to be very resolute and honest about wanting a relationship.  Sean seemed to be lying about that, just my gut on that one but it seems like Davina saw that about him too.  She doesn't strike me as a commitmentphobe.  She strikes me as someone with trust issues for sure, but I don't see her as fitting the self defeating, terminal pattern that Sean does.  I don't see her as forever incapable of a long term relationship like I see Sean.  She seems to be someone who has put off a relationship and children for her career, something that a lot of women do who achieve as much as she has.  And as a result she's kind of immature in that way, but not necessarily terminally so.  I don't see it as coming from the same crippling "disease" that Sean has. 

 

Commitment phobia usually manifests itself in certain ways and I don't see the evidence with Davina to say she has it.  Usually when I've seen women with it they either become provocative sexually and are kind of like Samantha from SATC, or they have a string of LTRs that somehow never end in marriage, and not because the guys didn't want to marry them (one of my high school girlfriends is one of these).  She could be the kind that has impossibly high standards, but unlike a lot of people I don't see her as having those.  I think I have more reason to believe that Dr. C wanted to make her look that way for his own reasons than I do believing she really is that way.  Of course Davina could actually have these issues.  I just don't see the signs for it and my gut doesn't tell me it's there either. But my point is that even if Davina were the most dysfunctional woman on the planet, that wouldn't make Sean any more able to have a LTR with her for his own reasons.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Snarklepuss

[jamblastx]

It is hideous that Jaclyn and Jessica have to also have a divorce on record. I could really care less if Sean has it on his record. Move over DUI.

 

Wonder if the show pays for the divorces?

As a divorced person of almost ten years, I don't think there is any real stigma attached to it.  Maybe after two or three but not one.  What's more damning on each of these pinheads is that their divorce comes after thinking that a bind date marriage reality show was the way to go to find true love

[rulesoftravel]

 

I do feel bad if the show promised them a spouse that was vetted and background checked, but then gave them people with records and important stability issues to know about, and have "experts" trying to convince them too stay anyway because that is wrong/misrepresentation.

I feel bad that the men weren't tested for STDs.  Wait, I meant that I feel enraged.     If that is indeed true, then the women were put at risk.  

[Neurochick]

I don't remember if her long term relationships were ever mentioned.  As to why she wanted to try the experiment, it was because she had spent so much time building her career that she needed help finding someone.  I know she wanted love, marriage and children.  She says she had tried everything (online dating, blind dates, colleagues, etc.) and still came up empty handed.  Davina strikes me as having trouble meeting someone because she put everything into her career.  Also she is very intelligent and some people may find her unapproachable.  Men are probably intimidated by her to some degree, but I'm not going to blame her for that necessarily.  It could be because they are threatened by her, like I think Sean was.  The only thing I agreed with Dr. Logan about was when she told Jaclyn in this episode that the idea that women can be too independent, too bold and too loud really bugged her.  It bus me too.  And I think there are still a lot of men out there who are put off by those qualities in women.  But even though Jaclyn was those things people liked her anyway because she was able to show her vulnerable side, which people like.  On the other hand, Davina seems to have a hard time radiating warmth and personability.  I think a lot of people saw that as coming from a superiority complex, but I didn't.  Some of those things can be related to personality.  Davina is naturally a more dispassionate type while Jaclyn is what most people would call a "people person".  I think a lot of people even today still think women should be personable and dependent and not dispassionate and independent.  The fact that Davina sticks to her guns about what she wants in a relationship and won't settle would be applauded if she were a man.  But because she's a woman she gets called a selfish bitch with impossibly high standards.  I don't think she can win.

 

I think this post is spot on.  That was one of my issues with Davina from the start, she didn't radiate warmth, while Jaclyn did.  I work with a dispassionate type of person and can't stand her, talk about frosty, and it makes me think that she's a real uncaring bitch who is destined to spend her life alone, the very things I've read in posts describing Davina.  But then I wonder how I'd feel if she were a man.  

[cherry slushie]

I don't have the time to list them all, but I think there has been more than enough evidence to believe that Sean is incapable of an emotionally intimate, committed relationship with a woman.  There really hasn't been enough evidence to believe that about Davina, IMO.  I'm not saying it couldn't be true, but I don't see as many red flags.  First of all, no one has come forward to claim that she's never had a long term relationship and she's never said that herself that I know of.  She's never admitted that she was ever a "player" like Sean did in his initial interviews with the show.  She seems to be very resolute and honest about wanting a relationship.  Sean seemed to be lying about that, just my gut on that one but it seems like Davina saw that about him too.  She doesn't strike me as a commitmentphobe.  She strikes me as someone with trust issues for sure, but I don't see her as fitting the self defeating, terminal pattern that Sean does.  I don't see her as forever incapable of a long term relationship like I see Sean.  She seems to be someone who has put off a relationship and children for her career, something that a lot of women do who achieve as much as she has.  And as a result she's kind of immature in that way, but not necessarily terminally so.  I don't see it as coming from the same crippling "disease" that Sean has. 

 

Commitment phobia usually manifests itself in certain ways and I don't see the evidence with Davina to say she has it.  Usually when I've seen women with it they either become provocative sexually and are kind of like Samantha from SATC, or they have a string of LTRs that somehow never end in marriage, and not because the guys didn't want to marry them (one of my high school girlfriends is one of these).  She could be the kind that has impossibly high standards, but unlike a lot of people I don't see her as having those.  I think I have more reason to believe that Dr. C wanted to make her look that way for his own reasons than I do believing she really is that way.  Of course Davina could actually have these issues.  I just don't see the signs for it and my gut doesn't tell me it's there either. But my point is that even if Davina were the most dysfunctional woman on the planet, that wouldn't make Sean any more able to have a LTR with her for his own reasons.

In her tweets with her friend, Chris Pierro, she confirmed that he not only lied to her, but admitted it.  

 

Chris ‏@cpierro: @davinakullar remembr when Sean promised to pay for an annulment because he knew he lied about the whole shit as he said. Then nothing #MAFS

Davina Kullar ‏@davinakullar: @cpierro Of course I do...I still have all the text messages.  I would tweet him and ask him if he remembers...but, he's gone from Twitter.

 

When she kept trying to make it work, he finally admitted that he came on the show for disingenuous reasons, not to be married, and would pay for an annulment when it was over, which he never came through on (surprise, surprise).

 

When he was on the 6 months show acting all weepy and claiming to have had the best intentions if not for his anxiety, she immediately called him out on it.  How frustrating it must have been for her to listen to him outright lie, garnering sympathy from the 'experts' while they attacked her for being some kind of demanding shrew who failed the experiment.

Edited June 19, 2015 by cherry slushie

[Stinamaia]

I can agree.  But it sure made for another great reason to all feel sorry for poor  boo-boo Sean. 

 

And I can't help but bring this up.  When Kevin asked Sean about spending more time apart then together  and Sean defended it with his typical 'stress and anxiety' excuse,  Sean then went on to drop what he thought was a huge (low blow) bombshell:

 

"Davina made a comment to me that rings in my head to this day when she had said    'i'm not going to be your caretaker"

This got no reaction 'cuz..."Yeah!! this is a marriage Sean, not the ER at the psych ward!!!.

 

When this did not get the anticipated reaction, he went on to say   "she said  'you need to be here for ME..  ( selfish and cold hearted Davina)  

 

Uck!  I hope I'm done!  lol (but i'm not counting on it)

Silly me, but I thought being a caretaker in a relationship was a marker of co-dependency, and haven't we heard for the longest time that a co-dependent relationship is unhealthy?  Davina should have been given props for making her boundaries explicit.

[Stinamaia]

I guess Jessica is the only woman I thought a bit less of after the reunion show.  That was mainly because of her immaturity.   However, Ryan keeping the $100 was hilarious.   Like others, I've come to the conclusion that this $100 issue had come up more than once between them.  I understand her feelings and motivations, but it's best just to enjoy the contemplation of such actions rather then carry them through.   Fewer regrets that way.  :)

[rulesoftravel]

I don't think she regrets it.  I really do wonder how the July 13 court date will play out.  I can't help but think the reason the date was almost a month away from the Order of Protection date is because everyone is hoping this will die down and Ryan will learn not to run his mouth.

[jamblastx]

I guess Jessica is the only woman I thought a bit less of after the reunion show.  That was mainly because of her immaturity.   However, Ryan keeping the $100 was hilarious.   Like others, I've come to the conclusion that this $100 issue had come up more than once between them.  I understand her feelings and motivations, but it's best just to enjoy the contemplation of such actions rather then carry them through.   Fewer regrets that way.  :)

This season has seemed so staged to get these numnuts to interact with each other, I wouldn't be surprised that the whole $100 stunt at the reunion was concocted by the producers.  I already think that the photo of Davina and Sean falling down twice was planned and not an 'accident'.  And yes, I do believe that the moon landing was real ;)

[princelina]

I don't have the time to list them all, but I think there has been more than enough evidence to believe that Sean is incapable of an emotionally intimate, committed relationship with a woman.

 

Hee!  We'd have to start a new thread!!

[Liberty]

...being a caretaker in a relationship was a marker of co-dependency...

 

At the "Big Decision", Davina says "I need a strong man".  That creep Sean, replies "I'm not a weak person".

 

That creep Sean has succeeded in portraying himself as sexualy disintersted since 'the first thing to go in times of stress and anxiety is sex'.  He blames not being able to move to UES on 'anxiety'.  Yet he wants to be seen as "not a weak person".  Poseur Celona thinks it was an unfortunate confluence of events, Sean's promotion and the UES that contributed to the failed marriage, yet that creep Sean does not want to be seen as a "weak person".  Oh, it is behaving like the devil when Davina replies about her concerns, and he does not want to be seen as a "weak person".

 

The guy needs a caretaker, and she was not it.  Poseur Cilona should be arranging help for that creep Sean to have therapy for his 'anxiety' which has damaged that creep's interest in sex and ability to live on the UES.