The Bachelor in the Media

[Artsda]

Chris Soules' Social Media and Cell Phone Will Determine Fate in Fatal Crash

http://www.tmz.com/2017/04/27/chris-soules-fatal-crash-prosecution-social-media-photos-manslaughter/

[saber5055]

ByTor, you asked about lights on the tractor Mr. Mosher was driving. One of my clients is a tractor organization. I asked my contact, who is an expert and writes for the tractor industry, replied with this. Note, this person knows nothing about this accident or why I asked. What he said: "A 2640 is a Utility tractor, built without a cab, but it does have fenders, with headlights mounted there in. Unless someone ordered it without fenders, a 2640 would have totally adequate lighting for night time operation. As to tail lights, I am not sure they had the standard 'red' lights, but I think it would have flashing lights at the back to warn drivers of its presence."

Thinking about this accident, farm vehicles will move over as far as they can, with their right wheels off the paved part of the road, when a vehicle comes up from behind, so cars can pass easier. Because the tractor went into the right ditch and Chris’s truck into the left, I’m speculating Chris hit the tractor on it’s left rear, sening it into that ditch, and he swerved at the same time, sending his truck into the opposite ditch.

And the poster who said Chris holing up for enough hours to put his drunkeness into question was correct. It took long enough (five hours) after the accident to get the search warrant and get him tested that he can no longer be charged with OUI.

I’d love to know what was on his Instagram account that caused him to take hit down right after the accident while leaving up his Twitter and Facebook accounts. I’m guessing some “boozing it up” pictures. I hope whomever he was with does the right thing and comes forward with the truth.

And yes, tractors have FLASHING rear lights to warn oncoming traffic.

[saber5055]

I can't judge Chris's drinking on a reality show that provides free booze and encourages drunken behavior to get better rating with what he does in real life that causes him to kill someone with his recklessness.

[fib]

24 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

I can't judge Chris's drinking on a reality show that provides free booze and encourages drunken behavior to get better rating with what he does in real life that causes him to kill someone with his recklessness.

Seriously.  

I just hope this doesnt cause Rachel's season of the Bachelorette problems. She doesnt deserve it.  There will be enough drama because of her ethnicity without Fleiss et al embroiled in problems caused by Chris. 

Ive been eagerly anticipating this next season...

[Lsk02]

58 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

I’d love to know what was on his Instagram account that caused him to take hit down right after the accident while leaving up his Twitter and Facebook accounts. I’m guessing some “boozing it up” pictures. I hope whomever he was with does the right thing and comes forward with the truth.

TMZ (again, who knows how accurate that is) is saying he liked to post pics of Iowan sunsets taken while he was driving around. The speculation is that he was taking and posting pics while he was driving. His phone and records have been confiscated, but if he deleted Instagram and his account, I don't know if it will still somehow show if he posted at that moment. 

[fib]

41 minutes ago, Lsk02 said:

 His phone and records have been confiscated, but if he deleted Instagram and his account, I don't know if it will still somehow show if he posted at that moment. 

Instagram's own records of his activities wont have been changed if he deleted his account, though the county will probably need to supbeona those. I think the taking down of his social media accounts more likely reflects the fact that it would be bad PR to have discussions of what happened occuring on them.  Chris shouldnt be commenting at this point in the investigation, and it is difficult to ignore people attacking you/DMing you/defnding you.  

Maybe there are pics/posts that are problematic, but I think Chris is just going into a virtual hideyhole until the legal aspects are sorted out, which is wise. 

[ByTor]

Thanks for the tractor details @saber5055.  I'd also find it really hard to believe that an experienced farmer in his 60s would have neglected to use headlights.

46 minutes ago, Lsk02 said:

His phone and records have been confiscated, but if he deleted Instagram and his account, I don't know if it will still somehow show if he posted at that moment. 

I could very well be wrong, but I've always been under the impression that deleted accounts aren't really deleted deleted & there's always some way to retrieve the data.

[saber5055]

I would trust what TMZ says. I believe it's one of the most reliable sources, given it's owned by a lawyer and has multiple lawyers on staff. They are factual and typically the first to break news stories, all of which have been verified before posting. Newspapers I also trust as journalists are fact-checkers too -- libel suits are very real in that profession. I also agree with fib that Chris will go into hiding until his lawyer says it's okay to come out. I hate that his only statement was saying his thoughts and prayers are with the Mosher family instead of saying I'm sorry I killed your husband/father/grandfather.

[booboopbedoo]

Oh Chris! I was going to get some overalls and come and play in the mud with you! Now that I know you may have a drinking problem I am going to have to pass 

[ByTor]

Apparently it's going to be argued that Chris did not flee the scene:

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/chris-soules-new-legal-team-argues-he-didnt-flee-the-scene-w479224

Quote

In a statement to Us Weekly, the legal team says: “Soules’ 911 call, released yesterday, proved that the initial knee-jerk coverage of this accident was incorrect. While initial reports suggested Soules fled the scene, the 911 call confirms that Soules in fact was the one who contacted law enforcement immediately. During the call, he clearly identified himself and explained his role in the terrible accident. Soules attempted to resuscitate Mr. Mosher and remained on the scene with him until emergency medical personnel arrived.”

...and then he fled.  Not leaving immediately doesn't mean he didn't leave.

Edited April 27, 2017 by ByTor

[Mabinogia]

He didn't flee to hide that he was involved, but it sure looks like he fled to hide the fact that it wasn't a no fault accident. Because if it had been just an accident and the police showed up to question him the I'm not trying to hide the fact that I was driving drunk response would be to let them in and tell them what happened.

[valen]

What is his defense for hiding in the house until the police had to force their way in? 

[Wings]

3 hours ago, saber5055 said:

I hate that his only statement was saying his thoughts and prayers are with the Mosher family instead of saying I'm sorry I killed your husband/father/grandfather.

His lawyer would never let him say that. Admission of guilt.  Lawyers get very twitchy when their clients don't say as they are told.  It is obvious he did, but there is a defense in the works and they are waiting for toxicology report of the tractor driver, for one.  Were his lights on etc. 

7 minutes ago, valen said:

What is his defense for hiding in the house until the police had to force their way in? 

It isn't against the law to not open the door to a police officer without a search warrant.  You hear of people doing this. 

He called 911 and stayed until the medic arrived, hard to nail him fleeing given this.  Yes, you are supposed to stay until police arrive but I see a loop hole there. 

[chocolatine]

5 hours ago, ByTor said:

I could very well be wrong, but I've always been under the impression that deleted accounts aren't really deleted deleted & there's always some way to retrieve the data.

That's exactly right, Instagram/Facebook still have access to his data, including timestamps (and location if he had that enabled). I believe if the court subpoenas them, Insta/FB will have to hand over that data.

[lightbeam]

I just hope the true is revealed somehow, and that Chris doesn't get away with hiding the drinking (he was most assuredly) doing.

So tired of people getting away with shit.  Pay the piper, Chris.

[DEL901]

They are now saying an open container of beer was found in the car.  Add that to his need to rush home and delete his Instagram account... things are looking worse and worse.

[Bobcatkitten]

Here is the exact Iowa law he is facing. Seems clear to me he didn't fully comply.

 

If the accident causes the death of a person, all surviving drivers shall remain at the scene of the accident except to seek necessary aid or to report the accident to law enforcement authorities. Before leaving the scene of the fatal accident, each surviving driver shall leave the surviving driver's driver's license, automobile registration receipt, or other identification data at the scene of the accident. After leaving the scene of the accident, a surviving driver shall promptly report the accident to law enforcement authorities, and shall immediately return to the scene of the accident or inform the law enforcement authorities where the surviving driver can be located.

[ByTor]

1 hour ago, scribe95 said:

After leaving the scene of the accident, a surviving driver shall promptly report the accident to law enforcement authorities, and shall immediately return to the scene of the accident or inform the law enforcement authorities where the surviving driver can be located.

I guess his lawyers are going to argue that he complied with the bolded requirements & wasn't aware he needed to stay after emergency personnel arrived.  All I know is, if I hit someone and knew they were injured bad enough that I had to check for a pulse, I'd want to stick around at least until he made it into the ambulance.  I don't remember reading this, but did the police and EMTs arrive at the same time?

[saber5055]

Wings, I know his lawyer would not let Chris say anything incriminating. That doesn't stop me from being extremely disappointed in him. If it had been me, I would have stayed until Mr. Mosher was put in the ambulance, then followed it to the hospital. Or gone off arrested by the police. Something. Anything but run away. Of course, I wouldn't have a need to save my own ass, which was tops on Chris's mind after he knew EMTs were on the way. It's my understanding he ended his 911 call and took off on foot as soon as the operator said ambulance and police were on the way. He was seen picked up by a red truck; I understand there is a search now for the owner of that truck as an accomplice, and that person can face charges too. I think now it's a waiting game, until his cellphone and social media are analyzed. But I'm putting my money on him getting six months, with that sentence commuted to house arrest or community service, something of that sort, after he spends a month or two in lock up. If even that. JMHO.

[Wings]

32 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Wings, I know his lawyer would not let Chris say anything incriminating. That doesn't stop me from being extremely disappointed in him. If it had been me, I would have stayed until Mr. Mosher was put in the ambulance, then followed it to the hospital. Or gone off arrested by the police. Something. Anything but run away. Of course, I wouldn't have a need to save my own ass, which was tops on Chris's mind after he knew EMTs were on the way. It's my understanding he ended his 911 call and took off on foot as soon as the operator said ambulance and police were on the way. He was seen picked up by a red truck; I understand there is a search now for the owner of that truck as an accomplice, and that person can face charges too. I think now it's a waiting game, until his cellphone and social media are analyzed. But I'm putting my money on him getting six months, with that sentence commuted to house arrest or community service, something of that sort, after he spends a month or two in lock up. If even that. JMHO.

Of course not.  

Speaking objectively without attachment, it was a knee jerk reaction to save himself given his rap sheet. 

The owner of the getaway truck will probably claim he didn't know the details of the accident, all I knew was he could not drive his truck, so I picked him up and drove him home.   A lie, but that is hard to prove.  His word against theirs. I didn't know they were looking for him.  One report said they identified where Chris was by the pick up in the driveway.   Since it is a small town and cops knew his name that probably was a false detail.  He would not be hard to find.  

He will not get away without punishment.   But what is the question.  My guess is house arrest and a big fine.  I base that on absolutely NO knowledge of the law.  LOL  

[kira28]

While I feel terrible about the death of the tractor driver, I used to live in an area where people drove tractors on the road and I can tell you first hand that these farmers did not do everything they were supposed to do as far as driving with lights on, driving close to the right hand edge of the road so cars can go around etc. I've had to follow a slow moving tractor 20 miles per hour to work on a 55 mph road.. But since Chris lives in the area he should have known to be on alert for a slow moving tractor. Even if the guy did not have his lights on Chris really has no excuse. If he was drunk he needs to face whatever penalties the laws in his state call for. 

[thehepburn]

8 hours ago, DEL901 said:

They are now saying an open container of beer was found in the car.  Add that to his need to rush home and delete his Instagram account... things are looking worse and worse.

 

Pretty sure it's more than one open can.

[saber5055]

I just read that a judge has ordered the warrants and other information gathered so far in the investigation sealed. Prosecutors wanted them sealed while defense team was going for a gag order anyway, to limit the release of pre-trial information. I guess we won't find out much else until trial. And yeah, I'm guessing everyone knows who that red truck belongs to, people around here know everyone by what they drive, plus I "assume" there would be a call on Chris's phone to that person. Kira28, I'm in the heart of farm country and have followed many slow-moving farm vehicles for long distances (which seem longer at 20 mph) when it's impossible to pass due to hills, curves, oncoming traffic. But if you take a look at where this accident happened, that road is flat and level for as far as one can see. You wouldn't have to follow that slow mover for more than a minute, if even that, before you could pass and get going to work full speed.

[NeverLate]

On 4/27/2017 at 3:25 PM, ByTor said:

Apparently it's going to be argued that Chris did not flee the scene:

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/chris-soules-new-legal-team-argues-he-didnt-flee-the-scene-w479224

...and then he fled.  Not leaving immediately doesn't mean he didn't leave.

He left, AND hid in house! Oh, and someone was dying..turd!

3 hours ago, thehepburn said:

 

Pretty sure it's more than one open can.

Yes, it said beer canS

[Artsda]

I'm still lost as to where Chris's truck is? Did he leave it, did he drive it? If he did drive it, wouldn't he have taken the cans out when he got home to hide the evidence?

[NeverLate]

28 minutes ago, Artsda said:

I'm still lost as to where Chris's truck is? Did he leave it, did he drive it? If he did drive it, wouldn't he have taken the cans out when he got home to hide the evidence?

Someone drove him home, not in his vehicle.

[MsPH]

From what I gather, the red truck he was picked up in is also his, since it was found at his home and they still hadn't identified the driver two days later. Surely if it was someone else's truck they could easily find the owner, not to mention it wouldn't have been parked on Chris's driveway if the driver wasn't there anymore when the police showed up. Unless the driver is someone who works for Chris and drives that truck during the day and just happened to be doing so at the time of the accident, it all seems pretty calculated to me. Did they pick Chris up in his own truck so they couldn't be identified? Surely phone records will reveal who Chris called though if he did call for a lift.

[thehepburn]

13 hours ago, Artsda said:

I'm still lost as to where Chris's truck is? Did he leave it, did he drive it? If he did drive it, wouldn't he have taken the cans out when he got home to hide the evidence?

 

It went into a ditch upon impact. CS left it there after calling 911, hence the open beer cans found. 

[Wings]

After the trial we will probably only know the charges and no details unless they become public record.  The information has stopped flowing now.  Dang

[saber5055]

Yeah, the records being sealed and a gag order put in place by Soules's THREE lawyers has stopped anything new coming out. On TMZ's site, there is a vote box, you can click as to whether you think Chris was 1. drunk or 2. did the right thing, something like that. When I voted, it was 90-percent vote for "drunk." I did read that his lawyers are going after the sheriff and others, saying they released everything to the media to take advance of Chris's "fame," and they are digging into these local officials/EMTs/police getting payolah for information. So, the sideshow is starting. What I've read online and seen on our local news is nothing more than would be released after any accident of this sort. But ... lawyers.

[NeverLate]

28 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Yeah, the records being sealed and a gag order put in place by Soules's THREE lawyers has stopped anything new coming out. On TMZ's site, there is a vote box, you can click as to whether you think Chris was 1. drunk or 2. did the right thing, something like that. When I voted, it was 90-percent vote for "drunk." I did read that his lawyers are going after the sheriff and others, saying they released everything to the media to take advance of Chris's "fame," and they are digging into these local officials/EMTs/police getting payolah for information. So, the sideshow is starting. What I've read online and seen on our local news is nothing more than would be released after any accident of this sort. But ... lawyers.

Fame? Omg...lol

[valen]

On 4/29/2017 at 4:29 PM, saber5055 said:

Yeah, the records being sealed and a gag order put in place by Soules's THREE lawyers has stopped anything new coming out. On TMZ's site, there is a vote box, you can click as to whether you think Chris was 1. drunk or 2. did the right thing, something like that. When I voted, it was 90-percent vote for "drunk." I did read that his lawyers are going after the sheriff and others, saying they released everything to the media to take advance of Chris's "fame," and they are digging into these local officials/EMTs/police getting payolah for information. So, the sideshow is starting. What I've read online and seen on our local news is nothing more than would be released after any accident of this sort. But ... lawyers.

Gross. He may get away with whatever it is that he was working so hard to hide, but if he tries to destroy the reputation of EMTs and police, in order to do so, his own reputation is never going to recover. It's unlikely to recover anyway, I suppose, but I would like to see some dignity and self-respect. I would like to think there are limits to how low someone will sink.

[NeverLate]

38 minutes ago, valen said:

Gross. He may get away with whatever it is that he was working so hard to hide, but if he tries to destroy the reputation of EMTs and police, in order to do so, his own reputation is never going to recover. It's unlikely to recover anyway, I suppose, but I would like to see some dignity and self-respect. I would like to think there are limits to how low someone will sink.

Agree! 

[CindyBee]

Chris and his legal team are really clueless as they filed a motion to dismiss the felony charge on the day of Mr. Mosher's funeral:

http://people.com/crime/chris-soules-files-felony-dismissal/

Can't believe not one person thought "hmmm, maybe we should wait ONE day to file and give Mr. Mosher's family some peace & privacy on this sad day for them".  

[saber5055]

Soules was a story on Nightline last night, complete with commentary by Nancy Grace. It played some of the 911 Chris audio, then said he left the scene before police got there. It talked about his prior arrest record and drunk charges. However, it left out the most important part IMO, that Soules hid in his house and refused to answer the door until cops got a search warrant. Nancy Grace said he can't be charged with OUI, which we already knew because of the time lapse while Chris was hiding. She also said odds are really good charges will be dropped, although she said a civil trial is possible. I was so disappointed the show didn't say Chris hid out for five hours, although that might be part of the gag order. I think it was said he's wearing an ankle monitor, but so what, big deal to that.

Thanks for that link, CindyBee. It irks the heck out of me that reports say Chris "allegedly" left the scene. WTHeck, he was SEEN leaving, and he freaking wasn't there when police arrived. What's "allegedly" about that? They might as well say Mr. Mosher "allegedly" died from his injuries. (Caused by Chris.)

[saber5055]

Update: Our local noon news just reported that Chris is appearing in court today. He faces a Class D felony charge. If the victim's family testifies against Chris, odds are better that he will serve some time. Our evening news should have a report on what happened in the hearing.

Here is a link to a page that goes into detail about Iowa felony charges. I can't do a link so you'll have to copy/paste. http://myiowadefenselawyer.com/criminal-offenses/

[leighdear]

In other news, Nick got booted from Dancing with the Stars.  YAY!!!!  

Bad enough he ruined a whole Bachelor season for me, I hated seeing that pubic-headed loser dancing with Peta, whom I like.   

[NeverLate]

1 minute ago, leighdear said:

In other news, Nick got booted from Dancing with the Stars.  YAY!!!!  

Bad enough he ruined a whole Bachelor season for me, I hated seeing that pubic-headed loser dancing with Peta, whom I like.   

That's how I felt! Such a twit! Peta deserved better!

[Artsda]

Chris Soules Prosecutors Say He Purchased Alcohol Before Fatal Accident, Dodged DUI Check by Fleeing

http://www.tmz.com/2017/05/02/chris-soules-bought-alcohol-before-fatal-accident/

[NeverLate]

9 minutes ago, Artsda said:

Chris Soules Prosecutors Say He Purchased Alcohol Before Fatal Accident, Dodged DUI Check by Fleeing

http://www.tmz.com/2017/05/02/chris-soules-bought-alcohol-before-fatal-accident/

Wouldn't the store have a camera, I hope so. Cant dispute them!

[DEL901]

Chase, Robby, Tenly and 2 others in Malibu

[chocolatine]

38 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Chase, Robby, Tenly and 2 others in Malibu

Tenley's continued participation in "Bachelor Family" events is starting to get tragic. She was on the Bachelor seven years ago. Since then she's been on the original Bachelor Pad, been strung along by Kiptyn for several years until he had a baby with another woman, been unsuccessful on Bachelor in Paradise, tried to cozy up to Ben H before he went on his own Bachelor season, and now she's glomming on to the most recent class of rejects. Not a good look, Ten!

[fib]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

Tenley's continued participation in "Bachelor Family" events is starting to get tragic. She was on the Bachelor seven years ago. Since then she's been on the original Bachelor Pad, been strung along by Kiptyn for several years until he had a baby with another woman, been unsuccessful on Bachelor in Paradise, tried to cozy up to Ben H before he went on his own Bachelor season, and now she's glomming on to the most recent class of rejects. Not a good look, Ten!

Meh. Shes not my fav.  But she attended a fabfitfun event, probably all expenses paid, and probably because she makes bank shilling their crap on instagram. Its not like she returned to Paradise.  YMMv.  She still sucks though. 

[ByTor]

On 5/2/2017 at 10:55 AM, saber5055 said:

However, it left out the most important part IMO, that Soules hid in his house and refused to answer the door until cops got a search warrant.

This is yet another thing that confuses me about his whole story.  Chris refusing to answer the door until police got a search warrant would imply that they wanted to search his house.  Why would they need to search his house?  Because not to defend Chris, I think his not answering the door doesn't look so good, but if they in fact did want to search his house, that's Chris' right to demand they get a warrant & quite honestly it's the polices' problem if it took 5 hours to get one.

[NeverLate]

33 minutes ago, ByTor said:

This is yet another thing that confuses me about his whole story.  Chris refusing to answer the door until police got a search warrant would imply that they wanted to search his house.  Why would they need to search his house?  Because not to defend Chris, I think his not answering the door doesn't look so good, but if they in fact did want to search his house, that's Chris' right to demand they get a warrant & quite honestly it's the polices' problem if it took 5 hours to get one.

I thought he hid, to sober up. I still think that. 

[ByTor]

Oh I definitely think he hid to sober up...I just don't understand the whole search warrant thing.  Again...why would they have asked to search his house?

[Mabinogia]

I think they are not allowed in your house without your permission or a search warrant. Since Chris refused to come out, they needed a warrant to go in and get him? Just a guess. I don't think they actually searched the house, but they couldn't get to him as long as he was in there unless they got a warrant, and they probably weren't ready to do an arrest warrant?

[ByTor]

55 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

I don't think they actually searched the house, but they couldn't get to him as long as he was in there unless they got a warrant, and they probably weren't ready to do an arrest warrant?

I guess this is kind of what I was getting at...I assume the police couldn't forcibly get you to go to the station for questioning, but I also assumed they would need an arrest warrant.  I guess I'm just annoyingly hung up on the "search" thing :)

[Wings]

1 hour ago, F. M. said:

I thought he hid, to sober up. I still think that. 

Yes, of course that was it.  It has been done before.  He will escape the DUI but not vehicular manslaughter and leaving the scene, though his lawyer will put up an argument to drop the latter, given he called 911 and stayed until medic arrived.  There might be a loop hole in there.  

He is not going to go without punishment.  The question is what that will be.  

Edited May 4, 2017 by wings707

[NeverLate]

7 minutes ago, wings707 said:

Yes, of course that was it.  It has been done before.  He will escape the DUI but not vehicular manslaughter and leaving the scene, though his lawyer will put up an argument to drop the latter, given he called 911 and stayed until medic arrived.  There might be a loop hole in there.  

He is not going to go without punishment.  The question is what that will be.  

I don't know what he'll get, he's getting to old for this terrible wake up call.smh.