S06.E02: Songs Of Innocence

[insubordination]

It's so good that they had the budget for all four mothers. I often lament that the budget on this show can't stretch to hire all the guest actors they need (perhaps  they should have had all the Dads too, plus Mona's/Mona's mum, plus the lead detective).

 

Still - really good episode showing the aftermath and what might have happened in the dollhouse. Ashley Benson made me cry one or twice. I have such a soft spot for Hanna. It was interesting watching the mothers trying (and mostly failing) to give their daughters what they need. I love a female-heavy show.  I though the four lead actresses all did an outstanding job in this episode. None of the male actors impressed me at all (bar Tyler/Caleb).

 

Sasha's message made me sad. As someone who had a thyroidectomy a couple of years ago, I can attest to a 'hormone imbalance' causing abnormal weight gain. Must suck to be a young actress in Hollywood.

Edited June 10, 2015 by insubordination

[Primetimer]

The identity of 'A' is looking less certain, but we know the Liars are going full-bore nutso.

Read the story

[Chaos Theory]

The actor has just turned 27 and is 6'2''!

Also, can we talk about how easy it seemed for Emily to guess the safe combinations after her mum kept changing them? That seemed pretty far-fetched... unless, with what the comment "Maybe A took a shot of us in a morgue-like setting because he wants it to seem like we're dead so our families will stop looking for us" last week and now this she's suddenly turned into a braniac (sort of like with Hanna and the SATs)...

Most people don't get very creative when they pick passwords and safe combinations. They have to remember it themselves. Most of us have maybe five or six that we use. I think Emily circled through the obvious (her birthday, her parents birthday, their anniversary) and got lucky. And the second time she didn't get into the safe she rented a gun from the gun range. Edited June 10, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[Shangrilala]

I just wanted to say it's not the costume department's fault her arms are HUGE (even bigger than mine, and I'm a mid-20-y.o. guy)! Say what you will about Sasha being the only teenager when the show started while the other were already in their early-to-mid 20s, but she is the only one who's  SIGNIFICANTLY gained a good amount of weight among the main cast (while the other ones have managed to stay fit and thin)! I'm not trying to shame her either but whenever I look at her I just can't help but think this look does not flatter her AT ALL!

 

I don't think you understand how a girls body changes in that 10 year time span.  If Sasha started the show at 14, or even as young as 12, it's not a matter of her significantly gaining weight, at least not in the way that you understand it.  When a woman is that young, she's still, essentially, a girl.  Her body has just started to go through a maturation process that can change your entire shape, in ways that you can't predict or expect and in ways that you can't control.  Troian started the show at 25.  Lucy and Ashley were 21.  Shay was 23.   They were well past that point in their lives.  As a a girl develops, they will carry their weight differently.  Some will carry it in their lower body, his and legs.  Others will carry it in their upper body.  Some will remain naturally thin. Others just won't be able to maintain or even get back to that shape no matter what.  Your statement as she's the only one to gain significant weight doesn't quite work here in that context - the female body doesn't work that way.  Couple that with her statement about hormone imbalance and there's your answer right there.  To characterize it as "significant" weight gain and compare it to women who were 10-12 years her senior is fundamentally unfair.  In other words, you're comparing apples and oranges.  I mean...even her voice is different.  She is not 12/13/14 years old anymore.  Look at a picture of yourself at 12.  Do you look the same?  Go out and look at a group of 13 or 14 year olds.  They look so young, younger than you envision in your head.  

 

As others have said, the costume department is doing her no favors.  It's like I'm watching Kelly Taylor turn beige all over again (showing my age here).  Instead of  always sleeveless, she'd be better in short sleeves.  Instead crew neck, she'd be better with vneck and scoop neck.  Instead of tops that add "weight" and layers - cardigans, ruffles - she should be in less busy tops.  And quite honestly, the girl has awesome legs, and great height.  They should be playing that up.  Instead of trying to hide her.  

 

Ashley Benson killed it in this episode.  I absolutely love the character of Hannah.  That scene in her bedroom, telling her mother what had happened, brought me to tears.  Emily at the gun range was a level of intensity that I've never seen from her.  And Spencer...poor Spencer.  I feel like I'm watching Spencer just slowly and painfully lose herself.  A has fucked with these girls for so long, and we've watched Ashley and Emily get stronger.  But Spencer has lost so much, she still has her mind, but I don't know... I think if we were to see these girls 30 years from now, it's Spencer who would be having the most trouble.  

 

If I were a Rosewood parent, I'd be moving my family out of town immediately.  

 

One other thing - did anybody besides me get the idea that A is still watching?  I mean obviously s/he is.  But some of the filming had the "A looking in on the girls" vibe to it.  For example, after the mattress in the hallway scene, it ended from the perspective of somebody, or a camera, observing the scene from above.  There was another scene with Aria, I can't remember which one, that also took on the angle of somebody observing, rather than being in the actual moment.  I thought it was a nice touch.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Shangrilala

[raytch]

I don't think you understand how a girls body changes in that 10 year time span.  If Sasha started the show at 14, or even as young as 12, it's not a matter of her significantly gaining weight, at least not in the way that you understand it.  When a woman is that young, she's still, essentially, a girl.  Her body has just started to go through a maturation process that can change your entire shape, in ways that you can't predict or expect and in ways that you can't control.  Troian started the show at 25.  Lucy and Ashley were 21.  Shay was 23.   They were well past that point in their lives.  As a a girl develops, they will carry their weight differently.  Some will carry it in their lower body, his and legs.  Others will carry it in their upper body.  Some will remain naturally thin. Others just won't be able to maintain or even get back to that shape no matter what.  Your statement as she's the only one to gain significant weight doesn't quite work here in that context - the female body doesn't work that way.  Couple that with her statement about hormone imbalance and there's your answer right there.  To characterize it as "significant" weight gain and compare it to women who were 10-12 years her senior is fundamentally unfair.  In other words, you're comparing apples and oranges.  I mean...even her voice is different.  She is not 12/13/14 years old anymore.  Look at a picture of yourself at 12.  Do you look the same?  Go out and look at a group of 13 or 14 year olds.  They look so young, younger than you envision in your head.  

 

As others have said, the costume department is doing her no favors.  It's like I'm watching Kelly Taylor turn beige all over again (showing my age here).  Instead of  always sleeveless, she'd be better in short sleeves.  Instead crew neck, she'd be better with vneck and scoop neck.  Instead of tops that add "weight" and layers - cardigans, ruffles - she should be in less busy tops.  And quite honestly, the girl has awesome legs, and great height.  They should be playing that up.  Instead of trying to hide her.  

 

Ashley Benson killed it in this episode.  I absolutely love the character of Hannah.  That scene in her bedroom, telling her mother what had happened, brought me to tears.  Emily at the gun range was a level of intensity that I've never seen from her.  And Spencer...poor Spencer.  I feel like I'm watching Spencer just slowly and painfully lose herself.  A has fucked with these girls for so long, and we've watched Ashley and Emily get stronger.  But Spencer has lost so much, she still has her mind, but I don't know... I think if we were to see these girls 30 years from now, it's Spencer who would be having the most trouble.  

 

If I were a Rosewood parent, I'd be moving my family out of town immediately.  

 

One other thing - did anybody besides me get the idea that A is still watching?  I mean obviously s/he is.  But some of the filming had the "A looking in on the girls" vibe to it.  For example, after the mattress in the hallway scene, it ended from the perspective of somebody, or a camera, observing the scene from above.  There was another scene with Aria, I can't remember which one, that also took on the angle of somebody observing, rather than being in the actual moment.  I thought it was a nice touch.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you!

 

Just because she's the only one in the whole goddamn cast acting her actual age, doesn't mean that her body is now 'wrong' and everyone else's is right. For the life of me, even the most beautiful girls at my school, looked nothing like the liars on their worst days, let alone best.

The change in her body figure is something that was supposed to happen to all the liars. Had they brought a younger cast, it would've been much more interesting to see them go through these changes. Instead, Sasha gets the short end of the stick just for being a normal teenager the way she's supposed to be.

Her instagram post shows a lot of maturity. I can only imagine what she must have felt with people calling her fat and saying she better hit the gym and get herself moving a little. 

 

And yeah, I totally got the still watching vibe, even with Emily at some point...

I don't know if A is still watching though. I mean, I can't see how he would be. He should be on the run after trying to cover his tracks.

It's just strange... The we've come to know since season 3 is incredibly well calculated, but since the dollhouse, he seems more reckless, like he's running out of time or something. Did anyone else get that impression?

It could either be the writers dumbing him down a bit and toning down his genius/omnipresent/ghost-ninja deal so the liars may have a chance at capturing him, or he actually has a master plan that he needed to execute in a certain time frame.

Edited June 10, 2015 by raytch

[resonance]

Her body has just started to go through a maturation process that can change your entire shape, in ways that you can't predict or expect and in ways that you can't control.  

I know how difficult it can be for us ordinary peeps to gain/lose weight with our average incomes and full time jobs; but, this is Hollywood and we regularly see actors and actresses completely warp their body types in a matter of months (i.e. Reese Witherspoon). Their appearance is their career and they have a gazillion resources like gyms, dietitians, cooks, personal trainers, etc.

 

Matthew McConaughey starved himself for his role in the Dallas Buyer's Club. If Sasha can't keep control of her weight, she's probably not that serious about becoming a major actresses. 

Edited June 10, 2015 by resonance

[adultingbetween9-5]

I know how difficult it can be for us ordinary peeps to gain/lose weight with our average incomes and full time jobs; but, this is Hollywood and we regularly see actors and actresses completely warp their body types in a matter of months (i.e. Reese Witherspoon). Their appearance is their career and they have a gazillion resources like gyms, dietitians, cooks, personal trainers, etc.

 

Matthew McConaughey starved himself for his role in the Dallas Buyer's Club. If Sasha can't keep control of her weight, she's probably not that serious about becoming a major actresses. 

And if you'd actually bothered to read all the posts and follow the link to Sasha's statement you would know that she isn't able to fully control the situation. She has a Thyroid problem. If you are willing to be so judgemental, it's on you. *shrug*

[Lady Calypso]

I know how difficult it can be for us ordinary peeps to gain/lose weight with our average incomes and full time jobs; but, this is Hollywood and we regularly see actors and actresses completely warp their body types in a matter of months (i.e. Reese Witherspoon). Their appearance is their career and they have a gazillion resources like gyms, dietitians, cooks, personal trainers, etc.

 

Matthew McConaughey starved himself for his role in the Dallas Buyer's Club. If Sasha can't keep control of her weight, she's probably not that serious about becoming a major actresses. 

 

This is going completely off topic right now, but I feel like I should point out that Sasha is 19 years old now. There's a difference between someone who is older and someone who is still maturing. Also, yeah, read Sasha's Instagram post where she has to state to people about why her weight has changed. Again, she's NINETEEN years old, not thirty or even twenty five. She's an actress, but she's also a normal human being and not a method actress. 

Edited June 10, 2015 by Lady Calypso

[Black Knight]

I think Sasha's body is just fine, and I don't think she needs to force herself to be stick-thin to prove that she's "serious" about being an actress. I think McConaughey set a bad example, actually, by forcing himself down to a seriously unhealthy weight for the sake of a role - in this age of CGI, that is unnecessary. Priorities.

 

On to the show. Like so many others, I think Aria picked Spencer due to the fact that she apologized to Spencer. I suspect Hanna is the only one who actually rotated through the other girls, deciding she wasn't going to play A's game the way A wanted - but then nobody else chose her, and that's why she feels so guilty and is having trouble looking any of the other girls in the eye, because she has a sort of survivor's guilt because she is the only one who wasn't picked while she picked everyone. And if she was never picked, that means Spencer didn't pick her, and given her surprise at Aria's apology, she didn't pick Aria either, so that means she picked Emily. Which is interesting because I always thought Emily was Spencer's favorite in some ways, but my guess is that Spencer picked her because she's the biggest girl, the athlete of the group, and so can deal with physical pain better than Hanna or Aria. As for Emily, Shay had to grab at one of those buttons to shoot the scene, of course, but I think they didn't want the shot to be definitive for viewers, so I don't think we're supposed to go off which button she seemed to push in that scene. By process of elimination (Spencer was already picked by Aria, I think Hanna wasn't picked by anyone), I think Emily picked Aria.

 

Well, they sure brushed Mona's whole frame-Ali-for-murder scheme under the rug with a couple of lines from Veronica. I'll accept the legal aspect of it being handwaved away so that Mona can run around free, but I still need to have a scene where Ali and Mona talk about it, though.

 

All the moms! Wow.

[AnJen]

I liked this episode, but I wish there was less focus on Ali and the new creepy cop; and I really would like to know why every other love interest on this show is an adult male; they obviously have no problem with 30-year olds playing teenagers, so the same actor could have been cast as a teen, but wasn't; the amount of problematic-but-portrayed-as-romantic relationships that Marlene creates has me concerned.

 

I disagree that the Milgram Experiment situation (where they think they hurt each other but actually didn't) happened, simply because they know each other well enough to know whose screams they're hearing; and inevitably at one point someone chose them. If the screams had been recorded, they would have heard their own screams and cries playing out through the dollhouse and been like "Huh, that's weird I definitely didn't scream/cry/plead just now" and would've figured it out. It also doesn't make sense to me that A wouldn't physically torture them, when he's perfectly fine with mental/emotional torture and has proven to be capable of murder. 

 

I too would love to see the show get a legal and medical consultant; the fact that the parents all seemed to be like "Omg you were kidnapped and tormented for a month, what's the big deal, why are you reacting so weirdly to things?!" was ridiculous to me. There would have obviously been mandatory therapy, and the parents would have been told what types of things to expect. Furthermore, I can't imagine that any doctor would be like "Oh, your daughter used to abuse amphetamines? So even though she just went through a hellish trauma, you think anti-anxiety meds might be a bad idea? Sure, let's let her suffer!"

 

I do hope they keep the PTSD going; this isn't something you bounce back from, and this show has a bad habit of having the girls bounce back from things within a few episodes. Emily was pretty much fine a couple episodes after she killed Nate, and so was Aria after Shauna. I'd like to see their stay in the dollhouse have an actual toll on their lives, and not just for a few weeks.

[apgold]

Clearly they are leaning towards Andrew and Charles not being one and the same.  I think Andrew might've been working with Charles on some level (he was acting way too sketchy towards the end of last season) but then Charles turned it around and framed him.  Even Toby, who is not the brightest bulb, said it was a bit too convenient.  I would like to know what he was saying to the police in the last montage, but I guess we'll learn more soon.

 

I did like this episode, even if it didn't try to answer many questions and focused on each Liar and how they deal with what happened plus having all four moms in the episode was needed.   Clearly Alison's dad is lying to her about not knowing who Charles is. 

 

I did miss Mona, I hope she is in the next episode.

 

I don't trust Sara Harvey either, but it looks like she's going to be Em's new love interest.

[mercfan3]

Spencer definitely picked Aria in the clip. Aria's picture was far left, and that's the one she pulled. (Plus, I recognized Aria's scream.) I thought Emily picked Hanna for the same reason (Hanna was far right) but Hanna was far right on Spencer's, maybe she wasn't on Emily's. 

 

It really makes sense though. Despite them being wrong, I think Aria and Emily both believe that Spencer is the strongest, and of the three, Spencer thinks Aria is the strongest. 

 

I think they're all wrong though, and Hanna is the strongest. 

 

And on the cops side of things..

 

umm..okay..yes..let's tell the high school student that they can't put the person who kidnapped and tortured her away, unless there is a positive ID..and then be shocked that she suddenly makes a positive ID. Really. Shocker. It shouldn't do any damage to the case, cops should know better..but this is Rosewood.

 

And also..yay for Toby pointing out the obvious. 

[SadieT]

I didn't mind Lorenzo that much. He doesn't seem so old, if Toby is 19/20 then he could be around that age as well.

I don't know if he's working for A, the odds are not exactly in his favor anyhow (being a minority character AND a cop in Rosewood), I'd say let him enjoy his 2 days being alive.

I've learned not to trust new characters since Cece Drake killed that snake with a mannequin leg. Except for Dean Stravos. He's all about listening and making you better while looking perfect in a v neck t-shirt and a Spiderman hoodie. God bless his heart. 

 

You have to be 21 to be a cop in most states, including PA and have an associate degree/60 credits of college. Toby could possibly be 21 (maybe he's the only one who's aged in the last 6 years) but I don't recall him ever taking a college course. Not to mention he seemed to have completed the academy and his training in like 3 weeks. No wonder Rosewood Police Department is so inept, they apparently have no standards for hiring. But yeah, cute new cop is probably in his mid-twenties and probably shady in some way. 

 

I heart Dean Starvos. Wish Spencer was with him and not Toby. He's so pretty. Sucks that Veronica chose that one moment to act like a concerned parent and kick him out. 

 

Can we talk about how absolutely huge Andrew is? I know he's definitely not Charles but I also suspect that he's not a high schooler. Watching Keegan Allen try to tackle him and then that long shot of him looking like a giant at that interrogation table was jarring and a kind of humorous. Maybe he's an undercover high schooler?

 

Right? He looked like the hulk sitting at that table. I half expected him to smash it into bits with his fists. The idea that Toby thought he could beat him up if he had 5 minutes alone with him was hilarious to me. Andrew could crush officer Toby in a heartbeat.

 

I know how difficult it can be for us ordinary peeps to gain/lose weight with our average incomes and full time jobs; but, this is Hollywood and we regularly see actors and actresses completely warp their body types in a matter of months (i.e. Reese Witherspoon). Their appearance is their career and they have a gazillion resources like gyms, dietitians, cooks, personal trainers, etc.

 

Matthew McConaughey starved himself for his role in the Dallas Buyer's Club. If Sasha can't keep control of her weight, she's probably not that serious about becoming a major actresses. 

 

As it's been explained numerous times in this thread already.... not only has Sasha had to publicly contend with the very normal and natural changes one's body undergoes as you transition from child to adult, she's also apparently dealing with a hormone issue. Her weight has nothing to do with her commitment to her career. Plus she's not even over-weight. Matthew McConaughey was a grown ass man who did something very unhealthy in hopes of getting an Oscar. 

 

On to the show. Like so many others, I think Aria picked Spencer due to the fact that she apologized to Spencer. I suspect Hanna is the only one who actually rotated through the other girls, deciding she wasn't going to play A's game the way A wanted - but then nobody else chose her, and that's why she feels so guilty and is having trouble looking any of the other girls in the eye, because she has a sort of survivor's guilt because she is the only one who wasn't picked while she picked everyone. And if she was never picked, that means Spencer didn't pick her, and given her surprise at Aria's apology, she didn't pick Aria either, so that means she picked Emily. Which is interesting because I always thought Emily was Spencer's favorite in some ways, but my guess is that Spencer picked her because she's the biggest girl, the athlete of the group, and so can deal with physical pain better than Hanna or Aria. As for Emily, Shay had to grab at one of those buttons to shoot the scene, of course, but I think they didn't want the shot to be definitive for viewers, so I don't think we're supposed to go off which button she seemed to push in that scene. By process of elimination (Spencer was already picked by Aria, I think Hanna wasn't picked by anyone), I think Emily picked Aria.

 

Well, they sure brushed Mona's whole frame-Ali-for-murder scheme under the rug with a couple of lines from Veronica. I'll accept the legal aspect of it being handwaved away so that Mona can run around free, but I still need to have a scene where Ali and Mona talk about it, though.

 

All the moms! Wow.

 

To me it looked like Emily just slammed any button without even looking because she was running out of time which is why I couldn't tell who she picked. I feel like if they were forced to pick multiple times they all probably picked each of the others at least once. I don't think any of the girls would repeatedly pick the same friend to torture. Unless they secretly hated that friend and were evil and sadistic themselves.  

 

In order for this show to continue to go on so much shit has to be hand-waved so I don't even care that Mona's seriously twisted plot to frame Ali for murder is just swept aside. This is why I don't hold Ali's past transgressions against her. Literally everyone in that town has done something awful to someone else at some point and we're just expected to forgive them and move on because the story's gotta keep on going. Mona and Toby have both hit people with their cars. Mona cyber-bullied the girls for like a year. Toby faked his own death and pushed his girlfriend to a mental breakdown. Ezra is a straight up statutory rapist who preyed on Aria and her friends to gain fodder for his TRUE CRIME NOVEL. All the men in town sexually pursue teenage girls. Paige tried to drown Emily. Ali and the girls blinded Jenna... who was apparently sexually assaulting her step-brother? But the show acts like what's done is done so who cares. 

 

I liked this episode, but I wish there was less focus on Ali and the new creepy cop; and I really would like to know why every other love interest on this show is an adult male; they obviously have no problem with 30-year olds playing teenagers, so the same actor could have been cast as a teen, but wasn't; the amount of problematic-but-portrayed-as-romantic relationships that Marlene creates has me concerned.

 

I disagree that the Milgram Experiment situation (where they think they hurt each other but actually didn't) happened, simply because they know each other well enough to know whose screams they're hearing; and inevitably at one point someone chose them. If the screams had been recorded, they would have heard their own screams and cries playing out through the dollhouse and been like "Huh, that's weird I definitely didn't scream/cry/plead just now" and would've figured it out. It also doesn't make sense to me that A wouldn't physically torture them, when he's perfectly fine with mental/emotional torture and has proven to be capable of murder. 

 

The writers seem to have forgotten that the girls attend high school (sometimes) where there's plenty of boys/girls their own age. 

 

It looked like they were in some weird dungeon interrogation room when they were forced to play A's game. It could have been soundproof or something and if the screams were recorded maybe they were only played in that room for that particular liar so they'd hear what they think is them torturing their friends while playing the game, but wouldn't necessarily hear anything else from their rooms and thus never hear their own pre-recorded scream? 

 

I think we're supposed to sympathize with A upon his reveal... because he "HAS A SOUL" and "it's not the who but the why" and all that crap so maybe they don't want to have him inflicting physical damage on the girls and think the audience will have an easier time forgiving the mental anguish he's caused? I don't know. He has had plenty of opportunities to kill them all and never took advantage of them. And I don't think he's ever physically attacked them before? Except for Ali last season when she got attacked in her house and Emily swooped in to save her. 

Edited June 11, 2015 by SadieT

[lorikauai]

I think A is still spying on them. The police are focused on Andrew and not looking for him/her. He doesn't need to hide. Plus if Sara is an accomplice (brainwashed or active participant from the beginning) then he has an inside man. And we still have Mona, Toby, and Ezra who are all suspicious.

I still do think the Milgram experiment is a possibility. A could have easily recorded their screams one of the other times he was frightening them. I don't think it really matters either way though.

I agree that Andrew's hugeness was way more distracting than Ali's weight gain.

[emma675]

As someone who has dealt with thyroid problems (and eventually had to have my thyroid removed), I am in total sympathy with Sasha's predicament. Thyroid hormone imbalances are a bitch and can wreck havoc with your metabolism. After 10 years of struggling, I'm finally losing weight, but it took surgery and finding the right dose of medication to do it. All of the exercise and starvation in the world won't help you lose weight if your hormones are out of whack. Poor kid.

 

I hope this PTSD is a continuing theme and not just a one off episode. I love that they are delving into the trauma and long lasting issues the girls would naturally face after what they went through. I hope we get actual answers about whether they were mentally or physically tortured (or both) and I hope that the girls sit down together and hash through their experience. No one can understand it like they do.

 

As for Lorenzo the new guy, he's totally shady and totally working for A, but I did crack up over his "would you like a tiny hamburger" line to Ali. He's already funnier than Toby.

[AmandaPanda]

If the Milgram experiment stuff really did happen, then I think that's another point toward Wren being involved somehow. It's a classic psychiatric experiment. I remember learning about it in my Psych 1000 class in college. 

[chelsie]

So how do they know that Andrew isn't a fallboy? A has been known to plant convincing evidence... ETA: Nevermind, Aria pretty much said.

 

I think Sasha looks great, she carries the extra weight well.

Edited June 10, 2015 by chelsie

[Black Knight]

 I feel like if they were forced to pick multiple times they all probably picked each of the others at least once. I don't think any of the girls would repeatedly pick the same friend to torture. Unless they secretly hated that friend and were evil and sadistic themselves.  

I agree that if acting entirely alone, they wouldn't repeatedly pick the same friend - they would've done as I suspect Hanna did and rotated through the girls. So in that scenario, only the first pick might have been somewhat "telling" in terms of their priorities and how they make decisions (like how I think Emily is one of Spencer's favorites but Spencer would be practical enough to pick her because she figures Emily as an athlete who's been injured would have the highest pain tolerance).

 

However, Spencer/Emily/Aria might've become concerned that if they rotated evenly, they might be on the SAME rotation, since they weren't able to coordinate with each other, and so one girl might get zapped multiple times in a row by her well-meaning friends, and then the next girl would get zapped multiple times, and so on. So they each picked one girl and stuck to that girl, not out of maliciousness or because that girl is THAT much lower than the others in the friendship tier, but to keep the rotation even in that way. It's an interesting dilemma. If it were just me picking, I would definitely rotate through the other girls, but if other girls were also picking along with me, I'd have to think about it - sticking to one girl might well be the better way of making sure it's spread out evenly, if there's reason to believe everyone will pick a different girl as their first choice.

 

If that's what Aria, Spencer and Emily were thinking, where it went wrong in my eyes is that Spencer probably expected Hanna to pick her, and Aria to pick Hanna. Instead Aria picked Spencer (probably based on mental toughness, like I think Spencer picked Emily based on physical toughness), and now that Spencer knows that, she can figure out the rest of it.

 

I think if we were to believe Emily picked without knowing who she picked, they would've directed Shay to close her eyes. Emily rushed, but I think she did pick deliberately.

 

So how do they know that Andrew isn't a fallboy? A has been known to plant convincing evidence...

 

Spencer seems to be doubtful, while Aria is full-on convinced (probably because of her relationship with Andrew). I think the others are somewhere in the middle.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Black Knight

[mercfan3]

It is interesting that we saw Spencer pick Aria, Emily pick Spencer, and we got confirmation that Aria picked Spencer, but nothing on what Hanna did.

 

We also got confirmation that there were more games than the shock one. Who gets food and water for example. 

 

One thing I did notice though, is that they have wires attached to them while picking during the game. Does that mean that they were all playing that particular game at the same time? 

 

PS..CeCe Drake's favorite game is "Truth or Dare." 

 

I thought all the girls seemed pretty convinced that Andrew did it. Aria was seeking vengence more than the other girls. But when Toby was suggesting some doubt, Spencer seemed confident it was Andrew. Emily and Hanna almost don't seem to care. 

Edited June 10, 2015 by mercfan3

[Mabinogia]

I was thinking about the Milgram Experiment torture and I'm leaning towards the physical violence not being inflicted being more psychologically damaging than if they were being tortured because, think about it. You are asked to choose a friend. you hear them scream. In that heightened state you aren't thinking clearly and pretty much accept things at face value. And yet, no one is picking you, since, when it's not your turn, you are not being tortured. It seems clear to me they were not able to sit around and discuss what was going on at the time, so they don't know. Why isn't anyone picking me? Do they not think I'm strong enough? I am picking them but maybe they chose no one and got punished instead. Am I a horrible person? blah blah. It's diabolical really. And until the girls finally face their fears and talk about it amongst themselves, they have no way of knowing if their friends were strong enough to take the pain themselves or just never picked them to torture and tortured the other three instead.

The question is, why? I am liking the persons idea that this points to Wren the doctor who did a stint at Radley for no apparent reason. I just can't think of anything a teenager or group of could possibly do to warrant this kind of treatment. So I would almost prefer, at this point, that it was an experiment or that Ezra is still writing his stupid book but decided to make it a horror novel instead.

I do think the show did a remarkably good job at showing how such torture would affect each of the girls in different ways that completely suit their characters. Take action Emily decides to learn to defend herself, on the edge Spencer falls off the deep end, Ostrich Aria sticks her head in the sand and Hanna deals with it by tearing her room apart to try to erase the memories and start over.

And I just want to echo everyone ever and say that Hanna has the greatest support group ever. her father can go suck it because her mom was perfect. From trying to get her to open up without pushing to hard, to the heartbreaking scene when she just fell to the floor against the wall and watched her daughter sleep in the arms of her rock, Caleb. Just...perfect.

When the show started I never thought Hanna would be my favorite by a mile. But she is.

[Kromm]

Does anyone on this show ever ask the question why these girls just don't move away? I mean they'll lose their friends, okay I get it, but the show seems to drive them apart semi-regularly anyway? Why do ANY of these people still live there? They should not only have moved away, but maybe even gone into hiding.

Of course that would require parents that give a shit, I suppose. Or striking out on their own.

[GaT]

And yet, no one is picking you, since, when it's not your turn, you are not being tortured. It seems clear to me they were not able to sit around and discuss what was going on at the time, so they don't know. Why isn't anyone picking me? Do they not think I'm strong enough? I am picking them but maybe they chose no one and got punished instead. Am I a horrible person? blah blah. It's diabolical really. 

I wouldn't think any of that, I would just assume that everyone liked me better than the other people, & that's why nobody picked me to get tortured. I wouldn't want to be in the group that gets picked.

[cuddlingcrowley]

I agree with everyone, the episode was great, the handling of the girls PTSD was awesome. I hope we get to see more of what they went through. Lorenzo isn't as bad as the tumblr liveblogging led me to believe but I don't see any chemistry between him and Ali. Along with the fact he's supposed to be Ali's first "healthy relationship", I'm bored to tears already.

 

As for the next potential future couple, Sara and Emily, wake me up when it's over. I think the actress is terrible and if Emily ends up with fake!Ali I might kill someone. Hopefully she's an A minion (an Amanda Young type, like in Saw) and there's that.

 

It's so obvious Andrew is being framed, I can't believe Alison isn't speaking up more given what she's been through, as should all the other girls.

 

I thought all the girls seemed pretty convinced that Andrew did it. Aria was seeking vengence more than the other girls. But when Toby was suggesting some doubt, Spencer seemed confident it was Andrew. Emily and Hanna almost don't seem to care.

 

 

Really? My take was that Spencer was  contrasting Aria by doubting Andrew is Charles. Hence her: if he's the one, let the cops figure it out thing. I actually don't think anyone was that convinced it was Andrew.

 

I'm actually dinging Aria's spirit right now. I think her character works better with a darker edge because she often comes off very fake to me, like she's acting in a tv show in her head (which is a very teenager thing). It's nice seeing her in a more genuine note, less calculated.

 

This time around the parent that annoyed me the most was Mama Fields. I know she was concerned about Emily's safety but she did the typical parent thing where she reacted with anger and harshly when that's the last thing Emily needs right now. Spencer's mother was also terribly realistic, what with forbidding Spencer from taking the drug but not looking for another option which Spencer desperately needs. 

 

 

On to the show. Like so many others, I think Aria picked Spencer due to the fact that she apologized to Spencer. I suspect Hanna is the only one who actually rotated through the other girls, deciding she wasn't going to play A's game the way A wanted - but then nobody else chose her, and that's why she feels so guilty and is having trouble looking any of the other girls in the eye, because she has a sort of survivor's guilt because she is the only one who wasn't picked while she picked everyone. And if she was never picked, that means Spencer didn't pick her, and given her surprise at Aria's apology, she didn't pick Aria either, so that means she picked Emily. Which is interesting because I always thought Emily was Spencer's favorite in some ways, but my guess is that Spencer picked her because she's the biggest girl, the athlete of the group, and so can deal with physical pain better than Hanna or Aria. As for Emily, Shay had to grab at one of those buttons to shoot the scene, of course, but I think they didn't want the shot to be definitive for viewers, so I don't think we're supposed to go off which button she seemed to push in that scene. By process of elimination (Spencer was already picked by Aria, I think Hanna wasn't picked by anyone), I think Emily picked Aria.

 

 

I think it's interesting that people on tumblr were seriously considering whether Hanna was the one picked the most and you're theorizing she's the one least picked. I'm personally more inclined to agree with you. I think Hanna has a huge bond with the four girls. I definitely can't imagine either Emily or Spencer picking her. I also can't imagine Spencer picking Aria, either, because she's so tiny and I always thought Aria was Spencer's favorite, with the Sparia thing and all, same like I think Emily and Hanna are each other's favorites.

 

I think  Spencer and Emily might have been picked the most because they're by far the most physically strong from the bunch. Or at least, they appear so.

 

I wonder if we'll ever know who picked who, besides Aria picking Spencer. I'm also not convinced it wasn't "just" A playing mental games with them. 

Edited June 10, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[AnJen]

Operating under the assumption that they were actually shocked, I found this online:

Effects of Electrical Current* on the Body [3]

 

Current, Reaction

1 milliamp, Just a faint tingle.

5 milliamps, Slight shock felt. Disturbing, but not painful. Most people can “let go.” However, strong involuntary movements can cause injuries.

6-25 milliamps (women)† 9-30 milliamps (men), Painful shock. Muscular control is lost. This is the range where “freezing currents” start. It may not be possible to “let go.”

50-150 milliamps, Extremely painful shock, respiratory arrest (breathing stops), severe muscle contractions. Flexor muscles may cause holding on; extensor muscles may cause intense pushing away. Death is possible.

1,000-4,300 milliamps (1-4.3 amps), Ventricular fibrillation (heart pumping action not rhythmic) occurs. Muscles contract; nerve damage occurs. Death is likely.

10,000 milliamps (10 amps), Cardiac arrest and severe burns occur. Death is probable.

 

 

I think it's possible that A/Charles could have kept the voltage around 40-50 milliamps; enough to cause a lot of pain, but less likely to kill. I'm actually really interested to hear if the torture was purely psychological. As I said above, I doubt it, but I'd still like the writers to clarify. A seems fine putting the girls through the wringer as long as they aren't killed or maimed in the process. Like Spencer said in one episode, the cat likes to keep the mouse alive to play; once it's dead the fun is over. But that doesn't stop the cat from hurting the mouse...just doesn't kill it (right away, at least).

 

Given that he was fine withholding food and water from them for days, I just don't think an electric shock is that far of a jump. 

 

I will say, compared to the premiere, last night's episode was kind of boring. I sometimes wish this show were only allotted 13 episodes a season, so that the writers would be more motivated to keep the quality/information high in all episodes and not have ones that seem more like filler. I'm tempted to DVR all of the episodes and then binge-watch them after the mid-season finale, except that I love discussing it on the forums too much, so I'd end up spoiling myself for something.

[Artsda]

I was thinking Emily might have been picked the least, Spencer the most. I think Spencer just might be considering the strongest despite her addictions. She's always battling and seems to have the most butting heads with the other girls. While Emily's always the nicest.

[cuddlingcrowley]

I will say, compared to the premiere, last night's episode was kind of boring. I sometimes wish this show were only allotted 13 episodes a season, so that the writers would be more motivated to keep the quality/information high in all episodes and not have ones that seem more like filler. I'm tempted to DVR all of the episodes and then binge-watch them after the mid-season finale, except that I love discussing it on the forums too much, so I'd end up spoiling myself for something.

 

 

You should look into doing that. I don't have that problem with PLL, along with Hannibal, those are the only shows I enjoy watching it as it airs, BUT I've noticed that depending on the show binge-watching it can enhence my experience in viewing it dramatically. Especially the shows prone to having a lot of fillers as it tends to happen with the ones with longer seasons. That's the only way I can keep up with TVD. It made the difference to me between deciding to quit on it altogether and actually learning to enjoy it again.

Edited June 10, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[GaT]

As for the next potential future couple, Sara and Emily, wake me up when it's over. I think the actress is terrible and if Emily ends up with fake!Ali I might kill someone. Hopefully she's an A minion (an Amanda Young type, like in Saw) and there's that.

 

 

I thought her wig was horrendous, it looked really fake. I'm just tired of Emily trying to hook up with every new female that says hello to her, she's the PLL player.

Edited June 10, 2015 by GaT

[Jack Shaftoe]

I almost fell asleep during this episode. Are they freaking serious, wasting time with Spencer's stupid addiction story and Alison hooking up with some new cop guy? Not a single journalist harassing the girls with questions? Come on, if this was a real kidnapping case there would be a media circus of epic proportions in Rosewood.

 

The Liars jumping onboard with Andrew is A so easily? Do these girls ever learn from their mistakes? I laughed out loud when Aria was all "Andrew was always around" as if this had been the case for years and not for the last month at most.

 

The whole PTSD thing would have been so much more effective if we hadn't had so many instances of the girls (well, Aria not so much) shrugging off terrible experiences with incredible ease in the previous seasons.

 

You would think that Emily knowing how to shoot a gun well would have come up by now...

 

Pam totally ships Emily and Paige, doesn't she? Or that's just my shipper goggles talking. I liked that they mentioned Paige and she wanted to come back apparently but I really we could have seen that phone conversation that her and Emily had.

 

 

I thought her wig was horrendous, it looked really fake. I'm just tired of Emily trying to hook up with every new female that says hello to her, she's the PLL player.

 

Better than hooking up with Alison, I'd say but such a silly idea nevertheless. Why do we need this Sarah Harvey anyway? It's not like A hasn't harmed way too many characters already, introducing new important characters at that stage is bad form.

 

I wish Toby would remember what it is to be falsely accused and ease up with "Andrew is A! Because of reasons!". Then again, he is probably overly excited because he and cop buddies solved their first case ever.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Jack Shaftoe

[auntiemel]

 

But if that were the case wouldn't the girls have asked each other "Hey but did I really hurt you?", "Hey but did I really end up depriving you of water?". If the answer to said question is no, it should be fairly easy for them to get over those 3 weeks of alleged torture.

 

But part of the psychological burden that you bear is knowing what you've now found out about yourself - you are the kind of person that will torture someone you love in order to avoid torture yourself. Even if it didn't play out that way, you still have to live with yourself, you still have to sleep at night, you still have to look at yourself in the mirror. Whether or not it played out, you still pushed that button, and it can be almost impossible to forgive yourself for something like that.

 

It's kind of like Sophie's choice. I'll spoiler this even though the movie is old:

Sophie had to choose one of her kids to be killed, and she chose her daughter. Of course, her son ended up dying before they were freed anyway. The choice was ultimately pointless, logistically. Both of the kids died, in reality. But what she couldn't get past was that moment - when she was pushed to choose one of her kids to die, she did it. She chose one. Even though the choice was ultimately pointless, it was what it meant about *her* that tortured her.

Edited June 10, 2015 by auntiemel

[Giuliano Lanzilli]

Where does it say that Sarah is going to be Emily's next love interest? I thought she was dug up as a character for mystery-related, not romantic, purposes! Oh God another lesbian in Rosewood! :(

 

And puhleeeese ANYONE, forced to choose between hurting yourself and someone else, would pick the latter option for self preservation (unless it's a parent and a child you're talking about)! It's not like they had a choice, DUH!!! -.- I still think they should've talked it over... besides we don't even know what the game rules were or how many times they were forced to zap a friend or even if the torture itself was exectued through zapping. It's just a convenient was for the show "not to have to go there", as in "tell, don't show", which is annoying.

[Spencer Hastings]

still think they should've talked it over... besides we don't even know what the game rules were or how many times they were forced to zap a friend or even if the torture itself was exectued through zapping.

I might have missed it but did the girls have a chance to talk it over? I was under the impression that they didn't see each other again after they woke up in the morgue.

[cuddlingcrowley]

Where does it say that Sarah is going to be Emily's next love interest? I thought she was dug up as a character for mystery-related, not romantic, purposes! Oh God another lesbian in Rosewood! :(

 

 

Well, it doesn't but

MK talked about Emily finding out her soulmate is closer to her than she previously ever realized and that that person was trapped with Emily. I'm hoping against hope it's Hanna, otherwise I'd find that quote very misleading but I'm already prepairing myself for the worst, thinking it might be Sara.

[Cranberry]

@cuddlingcrowley 

Do you have a link to where she said the person was trapped with Emily? I don't remember that.

[Agent Dark]

Operating under the assumption that they were actually shocked, I found this online:

 

I think it's possible that A/Charles could have kept the voltage around 40-50 milliamps; enough to cause a lot of pain, but less likely to kill.

Voltage is measured in Volts, not Amps ;)  That table is about the effects of a current passing through your body and through vital organs.  If the circuit created passes through your heart (like when you touch a bare conductor, and create a path from your hand through your torso down to your feet which are grounded) then you are far more likely to suffer life-threatening problems than say if the circuit was created from one of your fingers to the back of your hand.

 

The higher the voltage, the easier it is to penetrate through an insulating medium (like air, or your skin).  The higher the current, the more damage the electricity will cause you.  Car Batteries can put out hundreds of Amps, easily enough to turn your insides to crisps, but at only 12Volts it's unlikely to penetrate your skin (assuming clean, dry skin of course) and you might only feel a slight 'tingle'.  You're probably going to start really feeling the effects of an electric shock at around 50 or 60V, but that is highly dependant on the condition of your body and skin.   On the other hand, a 'Megger' (an instrument used for measuring Insulation Resistance on electrical wires and plant) can generate DC Voltages upwards of 5000 Volts, but only output microAmps.  You certainly know about it if you zap yourself, but its highly unlikely to cause any harm (think of a way way more nasty static shock zap).

 

I highly doubt they were getting repeatedly zapped by a 50mA current because they would be in very real danger of electrocution (ie death by electric shock).  It's far more likely to be a higher voltage (1-2kV maybe) but very low current source (<5mA) since it bloody hurts like hell but doesn't do any real harm.

[Shangrilala]

By the way, I just want to add that I thought Aria acted bizarre this episode. Strange enough to put me on the AriA bandwagon somewhat.

Also, what was up with Toby and Ali? That whole "I'm glad it's over" convo was loaded with innuendos. I just don't know about what?

[lorikauai]

I just assumed Emily/Sara would be a thing. Emily loves wounded puppies. (wrongly accused Toby, closeted Paige, back from the dead Ali, grieving "cousin" Nate to name a few). Plus when are any of the girls single?

[mercfan3]

The girls decision wasn't themselves or the others for the shock. The girls decision was one of the other three or all of the girls. (Listen to the voice, "Pick one, or all will suffer.") At that point, it actually wouldn't have been selfish to not pick one just to take a stand and a clear conscience, because really that means they picked all three. (Of course it wasn't their fault, but that's the situation they were in.) 

 

The food and water was her or me..and who knows for that. And no, the girls didn't get to talk to each other. They didn't get to see each other for three weeks. 

[Artsda]

@cuddlingcrowley 

Do you have a link to where she said the person was trapped with Emily? I don't remember that.

Spoiler thread.

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/2303-everyone-is-a-the-spoiler-thread/page-4#entry1173501

[Cranberry]

Haha, yeah, that was my post! Okay, so nothing new.

[SadieT]

The girls decision wasn't themselves or the others for the shock. The girls decision was one of the other three or all of the girls. (Listen to the voice, "Pick one, or all will suffer.") At that point, it actually wouldn't have been selfish to not pick one just to take a stand and a clear conscience, because really that means they picked all three. (Of course it wasn't their fault, but that's the situation they were in.) 

 

Yeah, when faced with the decision that one or all will suffer, the obvious rational choice is to pick the one and I'm sure the girls knew that was the better choice, but at the same time they were still forced to push a button that caused their friend to scream out in pain. So no matter what they're going to suffer the mental and emotional repercussions of thinking they chose to hurt their friend, even though they really had no choice in the matter and A was just playing with them. They're all going to have to work to come to terms with that eventually. I think had the girls had the chance to pick themselves, they would have in order to spare their friends, and the experience, while still horrifying and painful, wouldn't have had the same level of mental and emotional anguish, which is why that wasn't an option.  

[superman1204]

Sorry for continuing this conversation but I just wanted to get rid of these thoughts.

 

1. I think Sasha looks great but I hope she gets her hormone problems cleared up. 
2. I am going to give the producers the benefit of the doubt and assume the reason they are trying to cover up Sasha's weight gain is because the timeline stupidly compressed, meaning Alison technically gained twenty pounds in like thirty-six hours.  I know it is probably has more to do with ridiculous industry standards, but whatever this show gives me enough to be pissed off about already.
3. If they insists on hiding Sasha's weight gain, why can't they just be smart about it.  Have Alison wear sweatshirts most of the time and work it into the show by having Alison explain that she feels safe when she dresses plain/scrubby/whatever because of the two years she spent trying to hide from A and the police.  It would give Alison an emotional scene with the Lairs, it would draw a parallel between the Lairs current PTSD and Alison's own experiences, and Alison wouldn't be dress like someones mother.  Its not that hard!
4. Speaking of actors who don't look their parts anymore, some tell Andrew to switch to cardio, he looks nothing like a nerdy high school valedictorian.  Also stop putting him in such tight fitting shirts.  I get that most male characters exist primarily as eye candy, but seriously he is supposed to be A, I think sexy isn't what they are going for right now.  Between Andrew and Mike, sometimes I start thinking I am watching WWE instead of PPL.

[mac123x]

Mona wasn't in this episode for plot reasons.  If she was, and they were able to talk to her, they'd get an explanation of how she even knew about Charles DiLaurentis -- she's the one who left the anagram clue for Spencer to eventually figure out.  Along those lines, did Spencer tell Ali about the home movie?  "Yeah, Charles had an 8mm film (which makes no sense since it would have been filmed way after home video cameras were around) of you, your mom, and two older boys.  Since you mom told one of them to kiss his sister, presumably that's Jason.  The other boy was Charles I assume.  Hey, can we ask Jason or is he high again?"

[tennisgurl]

Emily wrapping herself up in her dads coat just killed me. Come on, there is no way the army would keep a father away from his daughter after she came back from being kidnapped and tortured! That`s just sick and wrong!

 

I wonder if we will get more torture flashbacks of what the girls went through? It seems to have been mostly psychological, but I`m not totally sure. I kind of don't want to know. 

 

Poor Spencer. Of all the girls, I worry about her the most. She already had issues before A started messing with everything, and now she has this new trauma? Her mom is actually trying to help, but is not doing the greatest job ever. Spencer needs some sleep, she sells exhaustion so well. In the future, she is going to be spending so much time in therapy. Of course, all the girls need to be in therapy at this point, but I doubt we will see that. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I agree that they need therapy after everything that's happened but I don't think they will trust one after what happened with their last therapist.

Hanna seems to be the only one with a real support system to get her through this.

[Law Mom]

Didn't Sara have a couple of best friends? Where are they now? You'd think they'd be all over their rescued bestie.

[Giuliano Lanzilli]

I might have missed it but did the girls have a chance to talk it over? I was under the impression that they didn't see each other again after they woke up in the morgue.

 

Yeah, I meant after the 3 weeks/when they got back home (Aria and Spencer sure had a chance to do so in the former's bedroom)!

[raytch]

Didn't Sara have a couple of best friends? Where are they now? You'd think they'd be all over their rescued bestie.

 

 

She did. Or does. But thats probably going to be a plothole that never gets closed so best not to think about it.

Aw come on y'all!

 

We've seen the way the liars reacted to Ali returning from the dead. There's a love hate relationship towards someone like that and I'm sure they didn't just go running to her door with fruit baskets. Even if they did, she has been underground in a dungeon for 2 YEARS. It wouldn't surprise me that she may have shut them off because she needs time to process.

Emily is the only one who tried to talk to her at the hospital, and she knows she was in the same place as her even if for a shorter period.

So it kind of does make sense that she would reach out to her first.

 

Still, all this, does not cancel out the possibility of her being brainwashed by A, or just really fucked up. But the way things went down, her reaching out to Emily was not that far fetched.

Edited June 11, 2015 by raytch

[Giuliano Lanzilli]

I just assumed Emily/Sara would be a thing. Emily loves wounded puppies. (wrongly accused Toby, closeted Paige, back from the dead Ali, grieving "cousin" Nate to name a few). Plus when are any of the girls single?

 

I totally love how we are operating under the assumption that EVERY girl getting close to Emily is a lesbian (hence potential love interest) BY DEFAULT! XD

[ottoDbusdriver]

I'm still kind of curious why, when there was an actual scene in the DiLaurentis household between Alison and her father, there was no sign of Pepe the dog.

[Jack Shaftoe]

The very last thing this show need is a new Alison, be it this Sara or whoever. Well, maybe it needed the return of the real Alison even less but at least she wasn't a late addition.

 

Also, I can't help but wonder - why the hell did A kept Sara prisoner for two and a half years (IIRC), kidnapped the Liars too but didn't bother kidnapping Alison? Why did A ruin his/hers "brilliant" plan of framing them all for Mona's "murder"? If A likes torture so much and has such an axe to grind with Alison, what's he/she waiting for? Of course, A does have a long history of changing his/hers motives at the drop of a hat and the writers can and will play the "well, A is mad, you see, why do you expect rhyme or reason?" card but still...

 

 

Along those lines, did Spencer tell Ali about the home movie?  "Yeah, Charles had an 8mm film (which makes no sense since it would have been filmed way after home video cameras were around) of you, your mom, and two older boys.  Since you mom told one of them to kiss his sister, presumably that's Jason.  The other boy was Charles I assume.  Hey, can we ask Jason or is he high again?"

 

Of course Spencer didn't tell Alison anything. Groping in the dark is much less fun, right? Let's just have Emily ask her about some guy named Charles Di Laurentis without providing any context whatsoever. What could possibly go wrong? Plus, the mastermind is totally Andrew, right? Never before has anybody framed by A - Q.E.D.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Jack Shaftoe