Kelly File: Duggar Interview Part 2 2015.06.05

[Cobb]

How about a family therapy show with the first season staring the Duggars and Kardashians?

Wife swap Dillard's and West's?

[Tabbygirl521]

Even Donny Bonaduce has some standards. No go.

I feel compelled to share my heart that Danny Bonaduce has a genuine job, and therefore no need to lower himself in this fashion. Although I am sure he would be happy to pound the ever-loving crap out of a molester. He has the morning drive-time slot on KZOK-FM in Seattle. I hated him on the Partridge Family, but I get a kick out of him now.

[Cobb]

Jill and Jessa started a new facebook page titled 2 Brides and Their Grooms on Tuesday. Based on the information shared in the about section, it appears that they do care about keeping their show.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Cobb

[Tunia]

Oh my...how prophetic is this November, 2014, blog from Homeschoolers Anonymous that Potato511 linked in Part 1:

And most disconcertingly, the relationship ideas of the Duggars directly groom women for sexual abuse. As homeschool alum Lana Hope has pointed out,
“The news media has finally connected Doug Phillips of Vision Forum, who sexually assaulted a young woman for a period of a few years, to the Duggar family. It’s not that the Duggars have sexually assaulted anyone.
But.
But they are following the very teaching of courtship and stay at home daughters that allows women to be vulnerable to an abuser. The control they put their daughters under is quite frankly terrifying.”

 4 Reasons Conservatives Should Join Liberals in Opposing the Duggars
https://homeschooler...ng-the-duggars/
 




Edited June 7, 2015 by Tunia

[Darknight]

Jill and Jessa started a new facebook page titled 2 Brides and Their Grooms on Tuesday. Based on the information shared in the about section, it appears that they do care about keeping their show.

That's a dumb title name

[Potato511]

Perhaps a lay person could ask him this question, but I think a journalist would take a lot of heat for that.  I think a more pertinent question might be why such restrictive and punishing safeguards were put in place if Josh were a changed person.  The girls being required to take on all childcare duties and prevented from having a normal relationship with their brothers because Josh made what was described as a silly mistake of curiosity doesn't make sense if they say he was completely recovered from it. 

I'm pretty sure Michelle made the point that this incident made them realize the "dangers" of a house with adolescent boys, period. So the safeguards were not just Josh-related, according to her. That said, looking for consistency, shreds of truth, etc. here = a losing game...

Edited June 7, 2015 by Potato511

[Micks Picks]

I was amazed at the high ratings these girls got for their greedy and tacky behavior during their wedding planning and weddings.  If they had the slightest interest in changing, and in genuinely sharing with their fans (the sharing goes both ways, the fans must be able to influence the girls to see pluses in lives as well), they would have done so. The girls have been given advantages few others in their set have had or could dream of having, even despite the home schooling.  The could have developed interests beyond bearing babies.  They could have refrained from insulting others' religions.  They could have shut it regarding Nazi like behavior.  They did not.  They didn't seem to make any adjustments at all.  There was no respect for their audience.  I wouldn't watch their own shows.  I have absolutely zero in common with them, and I don't like their better than the rest you, look how perfect I am attitudes.

[Julia]

I don't, honestly, have much use for the daughters. Leaving aside the abuse, which is what they've asked us to do, I think their views are as ignorant as their parents', and I don't believe they should be paid a great deal of money to be the glamorous face of an extremely unglamorous reality on the sideshow network

That said, I'm a little confused by the question of whether they've held down jobs before. No, I don't consider being on reality TV to be an experience transferrable to gainful employment which doesn't involve a full crew of competent adults making the trains run on time. On the other hand, the two of them have been running a 24 hour full service daycare and homeschool for their deadbeat parents for over a decade. If you don't think that's a real job, I suspect you may not have ever stayed home with a child.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Julia

[Mrs. P.]

Jill and Jessa started a new facebook page titled 2 Brides and Their Grooms on Tuesday. Based on the information shared in the about section, it appears that they do care about keeping their show.

I have a sickening feeling that this could be the title of their spin-off series.

[Potato511]

Jill and Jessa started a new facebook page titled 2 Brides and Their Grooms on Tuesday. Based on the information shared in the about section, it appears that they do care about keeping their show.

fwiw, that page does not appear to be owned by the any of the Duggars.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Potato511

[Cobb]

fwiw, that page does not appear to be owned by the any of the Duggars.

I keep going back and forth. I found out about it, because Jill mentioned it on her personal facebook page. Not her public figure one, but her original page that she used to friend people. So unless someone hacked it, she is asking people to go and like it. It would appear she is at least in some way involved.

[bluebonnet]

That said, I'm a little confused by the question of whether they've held down jobs before. No, I don't consider being on reality TV to be an experience transferrable to gainful employment which doesn't involve a full crew of competent adults making the trains run on time. On the other hand, the two of them have been running a 24 hour full service daycare and homeschool for their deadbeat parents for over a decade. If you don't think that's a real job, I suspect you may not have ever stayed home with a child.

I'm one who has been pointing out that these girls have had paying jobs for the last 10 years, give or take.  Mostly I've brought it up in the context of simply stating that they have had paying jobs, so getting one after this wouldn't be something new.  (What happened to their money or continues to happen to their money is a different thing entirely.)  Being a reality star offers a lot of transferrable skills, the list would be long and can even wildly fluctuate depending on the focus of the reality show.  I think just sorting through the list of reality stars who continue to be financially successful even after the show goes off air offers some ideas.  But yeah, I do agree that the many hours of childcare offers a whole other skill set, though one that would require extra education and licensing if they want to use it.  Can't be a teacher or a daycare provider or most things related to it without some specialized requirements.  

[Cobb]

LMFAO. I could see Derrick telling Kim to back that thing up.

Buhahaha! Jill would have no problem with Kanye. Afterall, she grew up with JB. Their arrogance is pretty closely matched!

[NikSac]

The Duggars cannot say "Look at us..." and then turn around and say "But not at this part - this was in the past..."

 

And I think they might be surprised to find out that "plus it was only a few seconds, the girls were asleep, AND he cried about it so it really didn't matter" isn't enough for most people to just pretend nothing happened.

[MarysWetBar]

Well, at least prayer gets in some authorized touching! Now, who is that leaning on Derick's legs?

Leaning on his legs? Thank goodness! All i saw was the back of someone's head and thought it may be MEchelle purposing for a very special rapture.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I hope Josh is starting the first chapter of his tell-all where he throws these Lying Liars who Lie under the bus. He should just say he was a perv and that his parents and sisters are lying about it now so they can keep their show. I'd have more respect for him than I do for his parents and J & J if he did that. I would also rather hear from Jana- who doesn't have a spin-off in the works.

^^^This. The Duggars better hope that Josh doesn't get too upset when he realizes their "we've forgiven Josh for these things that hardly happened and could have been so much worse" media blitz doesn't work and the show still gets canceled. He might decide that the way he'll support himself and his family is by starting to spill all the Duggar family "secrets" like blanket training, Michelle's rumored laundry room breakdown, the real deal on the place he went for a few months when he was sent away & paying for his own therapy, and any skeletons in their closets.

Finally, I don't recall as much sympathy for Anna "Chickadee" Cardwell when she was "outed" as the victim in the Honey Boo Boo nastiness. Was it less offensive to people because of the "white trash" factor? She hurts just as much.

This is such a good point. Where's Chickadee's two part interview, Megyn Kelly? Edited June 7, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[NikSac]

I think that these ladies believe it was quick and over the clothes is what proves the assault was mild enough that they didn't wake up. Do you understand what I mean? Josh did them a grievous wrong, but it was done in such a way they didn't suffer the trauma from the act, but from the revelation/

 

Sorry to quote such a small part of your good post, but I wanted to respond to this part, particularly since it was in response to something I said. I do agree it's possible they didn't wake up, but I've also heard of women waking up mid-rape so I don't think that's an automatic "out" for Josh. (please note: not saying Josh raped the girls).

 

I have found myself wondering, was it a good idea to tell the girls?  I mean if they really truly had no idea, no trauma from it, etc. was it harmful to go to them and say "oh by the way, you were molested in your sleep"?  I really don't know enough about this whole realm of psychology to know, but I have wondered if the girls who honestly and truly didn't know might've been better off not even knowing.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I've changed my opinion about the police report.  Previously, I agreed that it was poor redaction.  However, for various reasons, I have access to several (completely unrelated) police reports that required a lot of redaction due to minors involved.  In each case, because I know the subjects, I know who the victims are.  The redaction work is identical to what is present in the Duggar report.  The major issue with the Duggar report is that (1) the public knows who the Duggars are because they put themselves on tv, magazines, books, and tour talks and (2) the parents and the perpetrator acknowledged the crimes on the day they were revealed.  

 

It's always a difficult line to balance the public's right to know about criminal activity with the privacy of victims, especially minor victims of sexual crimes.  The police department did the best they could in redacting this report as much as possible.  Regardless of what sort of magazine InTouch is, they still need to at least try to prove the claims they make, which is why releasing a public report before it was destroyed was their job rather than to make the claims and allude to a report.  

 

It's very unfortunate that the sibling victims don't get to enjoy the same sort of privacy the fifth victim does.  I have a lot of sympathy for them and I wish this had never happened to them.  I also wished they'd never been made to be in the public sphere and I blame their parents as well as inadequate child labor laws that don't do enough to protect children on reality tv.  But I don't think laws should change about public criminal information.  In 99.9% of cases, the victims identity will be properly protected because 99.9% of the population aren't public figures. The legally and properly released police report is not to blame.

Thank you so much for this post. You said what I was trying to say a few pages back so much more articulately.

The police report was revised the same as all other similar reports I've ever seen. That's sad, but it's not something that happened only to the Duggar Family as some type of persecution or liberal agenda. It's a problem with police reports and court documents in cases like this. However, most families aren't TV so it isn't the whole country that's reading between the lines and can tell who the victims are.

[JoanArc]

 

2 Brides and Their Grooms

I can't tell if that page is real or not. Launching last Tuesday was a bad PR move; they're usually savvy about timing announcements. "Incestuous molestation is NO BIG DEAL" isn't a masterstroke of marketing, either.

 

The two of them were only interesting because the other girls are spinsters, and no one can really tell the any of the boys apart. 19kac was running out of steam, but Jess and Jill are one-trick broodmares at this point.

[Sew Sumi]

Jill and Jessa started a new facebook page titled 2 Brides and Their Grooms on Tuesday. Based on the information shared in the about section, it appears that they do care about keeping their show.

That's a fake page. 

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

This was heartbreaking. I didn't believe anything they said. They can't even speak the truth when they're "speaking the truth".

 

I've been thinking a lot about why they chose Jessa and Jill and I've come to a few conclusions. They're both married, so their reputations won't be hurt by it. They have the most to lose if the show is cancelled, as I don't really believe Jill and Derick could support their current lifestyle without the show and Ben and Jessa certainly couldn't. They've been featured a lot this season, so others who tuned in to watch weddings and babies are probably more likely to be attached. Jessa is logical and in control, Jill is emotional. Both are obediant (because they're dependant). Jill is a mother and Jessa is a mother-to-be (sympathy points?).

 

All of this was arranged. It is dispicable. They've been exploited by their parents their whole lives. Leave them alone. How very, very sad.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I don't, honestly, have much use for the daughters. Leaving aside the abuse, which is what they've asked us to do, I think their views are as ignorant as their parents', and I don't believe they should be paid a great deal of money to be the glamorous face of an extremely unglamorous reality on the sideshow network

That said, I'm a little confused by the question of whether they've held down jobs before. No, I don't consider being on reality TV to be an experience transferrable to gainful employment which doesn't involve a full crew of competent adults making the trains run on time. On the other hand, the two of them have been running a 24 hour full service daycare and homeschool for their deadbeat parents for over a decade. If you don't think that's a real job, I suspect you may not have ever stayed home with a child.

Amen to the last sentence of this post!

Imagine if after the show ends, JimBob and Michelle could somehow be forced to pay the sister moms back wages for the years they raised and educated their siblings (I know that could never happen, but just imagine). How much is a nanny? How much is a tutor? How much is a personal chef (even if she only makes Tater Tot casserole)? How much is a maid? Multiply by 14-19 or so.

[silverspoons]

That's a fake page. 

I was tired and typed in 2 brides and 2 grooms and it sure would not be a Duggar approved page. It was a page with gay wedding photography. It does make me wonder how much Jill & Jessa search facebook. I don't use facebook personally but I do peek at family & friends pages. It is so easy to go from one person to the next person and end up looking at a strangers page across the country with some crazy pictures or stories. I just can't imagine Jessa or Jill hasn't look around the internet more then the recipes and Bible stuff they admit to if they have official facebook pages.

 

When I found the 2 brides and their grooms page, I thought it was most likely a fan page. It does show that these Duggar fan pages get lots of likes fast.

 

I'm sick of Fox rerunning this interview. Fox is in between the 2 channels I watch the most and as I flip by our family jokes about what catch phrase we will hear, over the clothes, bad choices, his heart, paid for his own therapy and if I turn the volume off the body language is just as bad. Jill and Jessa seemed cold and distant with each other as they were pouring their hearts out and ugh watching Michelle starring at Jim Bob is sick. I tried starring at my husband tonight and after about 30 seconds I couldn't do it without laughing.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Me thinks that for all JimBob's talk of "buy used, save the difference" and all of his businesses, the family hasn't been as frugal as he'd like us to think. I don't think there's a huge nest egg - certainly nothing big enough that could keep the 21 Duggars plus spouses and children (and future spouses and children) living the lifestyle they've become accustomed to thanks to the show. My guess is without that reported $40k per episode (I think that's what it was reported to be) and the free perks that come from product placement and the like, a lot of things at Casa de Duggar (not to mention at Casa de Dillard & especially Casa de Seewald) are going to change.

I suspect that the Duggar-owned businesses may suffer from this scandal and the family's reaction to it as well. Their area of Arkansas has started to see growth and there are likely other options than Duggar-owned businesses for towing, used cars, etc. While leg-jumpers might continue to call Duggar Towing when they break down or shop for a used car at Duggar Motors, my guess is plenty of local people would now be more inclined to call a non-Duggar-owned business after this scandal and their response. I also believe that speaking engagements will dry up or pay considerably less, as well as book deals/sales. The lifestyle the Duggars have become accustomed to is OVER.

One or more of their kids is going to see that it's more financially advantageous to break away and spill the details of growing up in this family than to stay towing the party (or in this case family) line.

Edited June 7, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[silverspoons]

Me thinks that for all JimBob's talk of "buy used, save the difference" and all of his businesses, the family hasn't been as frugal as he'd like us to think. I don't think there's a huge nest egg - certainly nothing big enough that could keep the 21 Duggars plus spouses and children (and future spouses and children) living the lifestyle they've become accustomed to thanks to the show. My guess is without that reported $40k per episode (I think that's what it was reported to be) and the free perks that come from product placement and the like, a lot of things at Casa de Duggar (not to mention at Casa de Dillard & especially Casa de Seewald) are going to change.

I suspect that the Duggar-owned businesses may suffer from this scandal and the family's reaction to it as well. Their area of Arkansas has started to see growth and there are likely other options than Duggar-owned businesses for towing, used cars, etc. While leg-jumpers might continue to call Duggar Towing when they break down or shop for a used car at Duggar Motors, my guess is plenty of local people would now be more inclined to call a non-Duggar-owned business after this scandal and their response. I also believe that speaking engagements will dry up or pay considerably less, as well as book deals/sales. The lifestyle the Duggars have become accustomed to is OVER.

One or more of their kids is going to see that it's more financially advantageous to break away and spill the details of growing up in this family than to stay towing the party (or in this case family) line.

Jim Bob still thinks he is frugal because he buys the kids used shoes and clothes and buys used beds. He isn't seeing that as the girls drive to the goodwill 30 minutes away to buy a $5 used shirt and they are buying a $5 starbucks and using $20 shampoo in an newer SUV that gets 14mpg. They also are eating out and buying more easy to prepare foods, in fact during 17 kids he said the food budget was $1500 a month and in 19 kids , well it was 18 because Josh was married, the food budget was $5k a month. Don't tell me losing Josh and gaining Josie and Jordyn costs $3500 a month in food!

 

I really hope Jim Bob put aside lets say at least 40k (one episode) per kid. In Arkansas 40k could get a small starter house or fixer upper or a big chunk of a down payment. Since they homeschool  and own businesses unlike most of us they don't need to look in the best school district or be close to work. I think Jim Bob will find quiet businesses to run like his storage units. How many people know who owns their storage unit? The 4 kids that will have the hardest time if the money dries up are the 4 youngest girls. The older kids remember the lean years and I don't think it will ever be as lean as the 1990's when they lived in the trailer. The middle boys seem to get the shaft with the used clothes, beds and poor schooling. The youngest girls having been getting the new clothes and toys. Recently  Josie. Mac and Jodryn all in new Gymboree were playing with a bunch of American girl dolls. This is just 1000% different then the four oldest girls who at that age were living in a 2 bedroom trailer with 1-2 used toys each, a blanket and 5 shared outfits.  

 

These interviews have gone badly. The general public I don't think wants to see them on TV but they still have a following. They will still have some income from speaking and confernces if the show and media money goes away. I think Jim Bob will be most upset that his profit margin goes down for his speaking fees. Right now TLC pays for the gas in the bus and lodging for many of the speaking tours and we see an episode of the Duggars doing something nearby. I'm sure Jim Bob will cringe paying $500 every time he fills up the bus for the tours.

[NextIteration]

That usage of "whenever" for "when" is just a regionalism. It's very common.

 

Ah, thank you!  It made things seem sketchy because well timelines and such. ;)

[becca3891]

Jess takes her statistics from the same websites as Michelle does I think. Remember when Michelle said "Did you know that if every single human being in the world stood shoulder-to-shoulder they would fit within the city limits of Jacksonville, Fla.?"

 

Well, hate to tell you Michelle, but if everyone had 19 children, we would need 5 planet Earths to hold us all.

Ugh, that "fact" is a talking point from one of Gothard's seminars. It's just like someone asking you how many guests you have room for in your house, of course meaning beds, food and hot water, and saying you can have 300 guests because that's how many can stand shoulder to shoulder in your house. Meanwhile, you have enough food, hot water and beds for only four people. That little analogy is probably over their heads, but how can they not understand that the issue is availability of food and clean water for all, not how many can physically fit on planet earth????

 

Question:  Does anyone here know the time-line re: the Harpo cancellation of the Duggars on the Oprah show? (i.e., had the Duggars already done a special?)  Another question:  What do you suppose Harpo TOLD Jim Bob & Michelle as to WHY they would not be featuring them on Oprah (despite the fact they flew them all to Chicago, put 'em up in a hotel, etc.)???  We'll never know the answer to that one, will we? 

Yes, they had already done a couple of their specials, which is how Oprah knew who they were. Great question and I'd love to know what reason if any she gave them for why she didn't air their show.

I keep going back and forth. I found out about it, because Jill mentioned it on her personal facebook page. Not her public figure one, but her original page that she used to friend people. So unless someone hacked it, she is asking people to go and like it. It would appear she is at least in some way involved.

Just to clarify, Jill absolutely does not have a private Facebook page visible to the public. The only real one is her public figure page, https://www.facebook.com/pages/Jill-Duggar/1585717631652806?fref=tsWhatever you saw, and also the 2 Brides and their Grooms page, are fake.

[CofCinci]

Thank goodness "2 Brides and Their Grooms" is fake.  What a stupid name for a show.

[NextIteration]

I agree. I mentioned in the Josh and Anna thread how I remembering our concern about Josh's health these past few months. And there was his less that joyous reaction to the pee stick. He's been waiting for the shoe to drop. i believe he is very possibly suffering in ways that go away beyond whether they keep their show. 

 

I wish I could stretch myself to have some empathy here, but it is a struggle.

 

because this would have definitely deterred my terrified 8-year-old self.  I was terrified that I was overreacting, that it wasn't a big deal and just a normal thing. Turns out it's not (JOSH!) and I'm so thankful I told a non-Duggar-like person who understood that. 

 

I'm glad you had someone too, hugs.

 

Well if he's looking for paying work he's out of luck. We're all volunteers so we don't get paid. 

 

But it might help them learn empathy?  That would be invaluable to them!

 

To clarify: I'm not saying I see going to strip clubs as directly related to child molestation.  But it seems like in their world view any "change" on his part would have been a specific - and not a global - improvement of his character - if he's going to strip clubs just a few years later.

 

Thank you!  I could care less if Joshie frequents strip clubs nightly, hires prostitutes or gets tied up in a fetish club.  I just want him to leave the little ones alone. 

 

Consensual legal sexual behavior is completely different than non-consensual illegal sexual behavior.  I have no idea if his "change" was for the better or worse, but I'm just fine with him going to the strip club at the age of 18, it's normal!  It's even normal for an FRC hate mongering ass.

 

Seriously? Spend a day in the police report. You'll be less critical of the daughters, but more disgusted by every single thing. :(

 

I appreciated your whole post, I'm done posturing about any of this because I simply can't read the police report.  The teeny tiny bit of time I had it open in a window I was terribly triggered.  I can't say what is in there and what isn't because I can't read it, which is why I chose not to comment much about this interview.  What they did do though, is minimize what happened.  And I got really skeeved out by Jessa's characterization of Josh's methods as "sly".  I'm someone that was molested, in my sleep and woke up.  So this again, is triggering for me.

 

Also, since I haven't watched this show hardly at all, I don't "know" these young ladies like many of you do.  I have enjoyed a lot of the snark while "getting to know them" somewhat the last couple weeks, but the mannerisms and behavior in this interview are/were somewhat foreign to me.  Where I have a problem is the lies that are being told about the timelines, that Josh went to Ma and Pa every time, and other particulars but that is probably obfuscation that was written out on Michelle and Jill's cheat sheets.  It's sort of clear to me from "Alice's" posts and other things published that:

 

1. Josh molested two sisters.

2. Josh came forward to his parents and admitted this.

3. Nothing was done and Josh escalated.

4. Josh escalated badly enough that he did it again to another survivor in front of others 

5. Someone went to Ma and Pa and told on him (for TomServo should he? show up - this impression is from other sources than the police report)

6. Josh was pulled out of the house and sent away to whatever that building was that was Gothard owned, previously owned by Hobby Lobby to do something, construction?  Repairs?  Perhaps to prepare it for a new prison ministry?

7. JimBob brought Josh unfortunately to the PedoStatie for a stern talking to, PedoStatie failed to file a report

8. Specials are taped and broadcast

9. Somebody contacted HARPO and they pulled an interview and sent the Duggars packing, they also forwarded the email to the authorities (I don't know what authorities)

10. The police and DHS became involved.  I honestly believe that they all did get some kind of licensed therapy here, I have no idea if it was enough, but it was enough to meet DHS requirments.

11. I think that Josh was placed on some sort of offender list, probably not the Sex Offender Registry, but something a step down from that - and then filed to be removed once he met the requirements of DHS.

12. The Duggars get a series.

13. The Duggars become increasingly political.

14. Josh gains employment with the FRC.

15. Michelle tapes a hateful bigoted robocall that is a screed against transgender women.

 

Somewhere in there though it's sketchy - Josh and the survivors were dragged in front of some sort "church" to confess and offer forgiveness.  How the fuck a five/six (the time is sketchy) year old can understand what happened completely and forgive is beyond my comprehension though.  So in conclusion, if it weren't for the evasiveness and obfuscation I wouldn't question this interview at all.  But that said, I think it's really gross that these two were thrown to the wolves to save the franchise, for reasons like "reputation", even if they may have the largest investment because of a possible spin-off.  It's just more display of how crazy the belief system is what probably caused this mess in the first place.

 

eta: I hope and pray that the locks to the girls' bedroom were from the inside.

Edited June 7, 2015 by NextIteration

[becca3891]

So sorry to hear of your experience, Nextiteration, and the same goes for all of you who have shared. It is amazing how widespread a problem molestation is. (Although I do agree that Jill's outrageous claim that 2/3 of families experience it was way off.) Other reputable statistics have the numbers at 1 in 20 boys and 1 in 5 girls who are molested. Still horrifying numbers, but I do wonder if Jill got her numbers based on "like minded" families she was aware of. Gothard's teachings, I fear, make little distinction between having tempting thoughts and acting on them. HUGE difference.

 

I am in total agreement with everyone who has said they believe the licensed therapy came only when DHS told Boob and Mechelle it was a requirement for their home being deemed safe. Notice that they gave no time frame for the counseling in their interview. They were very vague with time when it suited their purposes.

 

Did everyone watch the first half of Hannity, which came on after Megyn Kelly? I was so glad I did; I can't stand Hannity but his guest who was arguing with the pastor was amazing. 

[Churchhoney]

I've been thinking about the family dynamics on display in both interviews - "batshit" is right on. 

 

So, OK, the first interview is just the parents, which makes sense. They're the ones who decided how their family would live and that they'd take the big money to be on TV, etc. (OK, technically per ATI/Gothard/etc. JimBob decided, since he's the Head[ship] and The Man In Charge of It All, while Michelle's his adoring helpmeet for Sex on Demand and Making Babies.)

 

But, I don't know, just having Jill and Jessa there, alone on the screen with MK? I'm not sure. I realize, they were there to talk about a very sensitive subject so of course an entourage would be inappropriate. And I'm sure the parents hovering in sight would send the wrong message (coercion, or at least being influenced to Say The Right Things To Protect The Family). But, I dunno, would it have been out of line to see a husband or two, even for a few minutes? As in, these are young guys, recently married, who love and support their wives? You know, the richer or poorer, better or worse, stuff, like this? 

 

So, the Duggar way is to toss the two married daughters up onto the TV screen to talk about difficult things. Alone. Maybe having the husbands there, even as silent support, wouldn't have worked. I don't know. But I'm thinking that it sure was cold of the 'rents to shove those girls out there alone to carry the water for keeping the TV show like that. Wonder if JB ever considered having Derick and Ben there. Because I assume this whole interview was JB's decision, and wouldn't have happened without his OK.

 

Very interesting observation.

 

Couldn't do that, of course. Might not have total control over those husbands.

[MrsMommy]

Am I the only one who thinks they chose jessa and jill to do the interview so no one will know the other survivors? I'll use numbers for example we know 2 married duggars was touched j1 and j2. They don't want the public to know j3 and j4 was touched because who will ask their hand in marriage knowing they have been defrauded?

This may have been confusing I literally just woke up 5 minutes ago and can barely think at this point.

[NEGirl]

Becca3891 - I watched Sean Hannity on Friday. The preacher, who was from Dallas, was one of the scariest, craziest people going. He kept screaming and going on and on about Josh being forgiven. Thank God, the psy. was calm, articulate, and able to get his point across that Josh's behavior was not normal.  I do not usually watch Fox because I consider them anything but a  "fair and balanced"  network. However, Sean Hannity appeared to agree with most people that Josh was in need of real help as a teenager and his parents failed him.

Edited June 7, 2015 by NEGirl

[Adiba]

I've been thinking about the family dynamics on display in both interviews - "batshit" is right on. 

 

So, OK, the first interview is just the parents, which makes sense. They're the ones who decided how their family would live and that they'd take the big money to be on TV, etc. (OK, technically per ATI/Gothard/etc. JimBob decided, since he's the Head[ship] and The Man In Charge of It All, while Michelle's his adoring helpmeet for Sex on Demand and Making Babies.)

 

But, I don't know, just having Jill and Jessa there, alone on the screen with MK? I'm not sure. I realize, they were there to talk about a very sensitive subject so of course an entourage would be inappropriate. And I'm sure the parents hovering in sight would send the wrong message (coercion, or at least being influenced to Say The Right Things To Protect The Family). But, I dunno, would it have been out of line to see a husband or two, even for a few minutes? As in, these are young guys, recently married, who love and support their wives? You know, the richer or poorer, better or worse, stuff, like this? 

 

So, the Duggar way is to toss the two married daughters up onto the TV screen to talk about difficult things. Alone. Maybe having the husbands there, even as silent support, wouldn't have worked. I don't know. But I'm thinking that it sure was cold of the 'rents to shove those girls out there alone to carry the water for keeping the TV show like that. Wonder if JB ever considered having Derick and Ben there. Because I assume this whole interview was JB's decision, and wouldn't have happened without his OK.

I thought the same thing about having the two daughters give the interview together, rather than having their husbands with them. If I were to be interviewed on national television regarding such a sensitive subject, I know I'd want my husband there as silent support (at least to hold my hand). I think it may have been a wiser move, PR wise, to include the spouses, especially if they desire a spinoff. Jill and Jessa could have further driven home the point that they have moved on from the molestations as happily married women (?) Interviewing them together in their parents' home gave the impression that they are still juveniles, imo.

Of course that would also mean distancing themselves from their parents control, which JB likely would not allow.

[NextIteration]

Does anyone have a link to the full Hannity interview, I think I only found a clipped one on Mediaite, because I didn't see the preacher go batshit crazy, I saw him defend but not screech.  I even lowered myself to looking at Hannity's site.  Ha!

[GEML]

Have appreciated the variety of comments. I will add that unless your FB is very different from mine then, yes, there are plenty of people who never watched the show and seem to be enjoying this because they have been so political towards other people.

On the other hand, one reason the Duggars have for thinking people are out to get them for living a lifestyle choices is because they are projecting how they feel and act towards people (they feel) living a (erroneously thought) "lifestyle."

Plus, it doesn't seem to be possible to come out of AR without being convinced of a "vast left/right wing conspiracy!" ;)

[Fuzzysox]

Does anyone have a link to the full Hannity interview, I think I only found a clipped one on Mediaite, because I didn't see the preacher go batshit crazy, I saw him defend but not screech.  I even lowered myself to looking at Hannity's site.  Ha!

Watch at the end when the minister gets all smug because one of the lawyers Mark E (he used to be on Nancy Grace all the time) talked about how the police report was obtained illegally. 

[Twopper]

If anyone missed this and wants to see it, I think they will show it again tonight. Not sure if they are re-broadcasting just the girls--I mean married women--or the whole 3 nights of interviews and commentary.  Once was more than enough for me.  I think the most honest statement in the whole series was JImBob's line to the effect that the whole family was being punished (if the show was cancelled) because of the reaction to Josh (not the exact quote, but close). And then he tried to walk it back by saying they would be perfectly happy not to be on tv.  Well, I got the feeling the girls are going to be very unhappy without their spin-off and Josh is not topping the list of their favorite siblings.  I still think JimBob will be able to continue marketing the family (after a summer break, perhaps)  in group appearances (without Josh).  And I foresee another book about how the revelation about Josh brought everyone even more closer together. I still am amused that anyone thought it was a good idea for 4 unmarried (at the time) daughters to "write" a book about relationships.  That's the epitome of arrogance.  It would be interesting to fast forward 20-30 years to see what they think of their 20 year old selves and the old tv show.

[NextIteration]

Watch at the end when the minister gets all smug because one of the lawyers Mark E (he used to be on Nancy Grace all the time) talked about how the police report was obtained illegally. 

 

I can't find this clip.  It's not on Hannity's site, though there is the one from before the break and indeed, Mediaite clipped about 3 minutes from the first segment and you can see the preacher start to lose it.

[Chicklet]

Batshit family dynamics brought to you by the batshit-iest leader. Men are to be obeyed, protected, guided, respected even when they don't deserve it and to the detriment of everyone involved, as we have seen played out with this little morality (or lack-therof) play. So women pay the price every time because they aren't valued at all, except for the uterus. The uterus they have no control over.

This cult was made to order for people who aren't very bright. People who are afraid of learning because learning is hard evidently. Don't want the little ladies to use their brains so make up all these insane rules and the sheep will follow them. Oh yea and the men are afraid of the women, so make up rules to control them JUST in case one of the wimmen folk is very smart and figures out the deck is stacked against them and fights back.

No insult intended to any actual sheep.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Chicklet

[NEGirl]

The police report was not obtained illegally and almost all attorneys I saw interviewed stated this.  JB and Mechelle tried to say the police chief had an agenda agaisnt them because she did not shake Josh's hand(good for Her) and they seemed to imply, from my take, that she was a lesbian. People can correct me if I am wrong on this. The Smuggars will never win one cent if they sue.

Edited June 7, 2015 by NEGirl

[Chicklet]

I have never figured out how to attribute something to another poster. Is there a FAQ on this subject?

[NextIteration]

I tend to use something like hat tip to MyWinston for batshit dynamics™.

 

The keyboard shortcut for ™ is alt 0153.

[Cherrio]

''Recently  Josie. Mac and Jodryn all in new Gymboree were playing with a bunch of American girl dolls. This is just 1000% different then the four oldest girls who at that age were living in a 2 bedroom trailer with 1-2 used toys each, a blanket and 5 shared outfits.''

 

I commented on this after their last special, about the expensive dolls.   Someone else said they could of found it used, but in this case I don't believe so.

           I made an observation years ago after the new house was mostly paid for and furnished for them, that JB was buying cars, trucks and other motorized things at a frantic pace.

 I think all the buying escalated and they probably have little in the way of savings. 

 Also, we really don't know what TLC pays JB and it certainly was not 40K at the beginning.     TLC has always had the advantage as far as salary goes.

[Julia]

 The keyboard shortcut for ™ is alt 0153.

or Option 2

[satrunrose]

 

While leg-jumpers might continue to call Duggar Towing when they break down or shop for a used car at Duggar Motors, my guess is plenty of local people would now be more inclined to call a non-Duggar-owned business after this scandal and their response.

Good point! If I lived near the Duggars and my car broke down and I was driving alone (like I do 95% of the time) and wearing pants (90% percent of the time), would I call Duggar towing knowing what the Duggar men in general feel about independent, unmarried, pants-wearing women? Plus, would I run the risk that a certain unemployed Duggar who used to feel himself entitled to do whatever he wanted to vulnerable women's bodies was doing some work for the family business? Nope!

 

As to the interview, I don't know to what point J and J were consciously lying and how much of why they said was the tragic outcome of being raised in a culture (or cult) where their only value is virtue and obedience before marriage and fecundity after. Maybe they weren't traumatized, and I would never expect that they should have been (or should share that with the world if they were). What I do know is that there are other ways of saying that they've moved on without saying that touching vulnerable women and girls, on their breasts and genitals, without consent is no big deal. They are public figures, and they have a responsibility to the audience to, at the very least, not suggest that assault is no big deal. 

[Fuzzysox]

The police report was not obtained illegally and almost all attorneys I saw interviewed stated this.  JB and Mechelle tried to say the police chief had an agenda agaisnt them because she did not shake Josh's hand(good for Her) and they seemed to imply, from my take, that she was a lesbian. People can correct me if I am wrong on this. The Smuggars will never win one cent if they sue.

I think that they are deflecting and trying to blame everyone BUT Josh.

 

The more I think about it Boob and MEchelle are trying to sell Josh for a new job situation. They are really pushing it and want him to get another high paying job by minimizing the whole situation. 

[PityFree]

There is no way in hell JimBoob and Me-chelle would have told the girls what happened to them if they were never aware of it in the first place. No way. So that is a big fat lie. JB's thinking: If you tell them they were molested, there are more witnesses to the awful events. If you don't tell them, they could pretend it never happened more easily.

 

Touching someone wakes the up unless they are very, very light sleepers. IMHO, all of the girls woke up or were awake and were aware were being touched inappropriately. They are only minimizing it for the media. JB & M would have swept it all under the rug if they could have. 

[CofCinci]

''Recently  Josie. Mac and Jodryn all in new Gymboree were playing with a bunch of American girl dolls. This is just 1000% different then the four oldest girls who at that age were living in a 2 bedroom trailer with 1-2 used toys each, a blanket and 5 shared outfits.''

 

I commented on this after their last special, about the expensive dolls.   Someone else said they could of found it used, but in this case I don't believe so.

           I made an observation years ago after the new house was mostly paid for and furnished for them, that JB was buying cars, trucks and other motorized things at a frantic pace.

 I think all the buying escalated and they probably have little in the way of savings. 

 Also, we really don't know what TLC pays JB and it certainly was not 40K at the beginning.     TLC has always had the advantage as far as salary goes.

Used American Girl Dolls sell for more than retail.  There is no "buy used, save the difference" with AG. The Duggars are so phoney!

[Fuzzysox]

Batshit is as batshit does

I think Dr Ablow said they are just nuts the way they live.

 

I found the clip of Ablow and the minister!

 

http://deadstate.org/dr-keith-ablow-dismantles-christian-pastor-josh-duggar-fits-the-profile-of-a-pedophile/

Edited June 7, 2015 by Fuzzysox