Race & Ethnicity On TV

[ursula]

1 hour ago, angora said:

I DO wonder if the creators thought, "We want to make Watson a woman, but we don't want her and Holmes to hook up, so who could we cast? Oh hey, I bet Lucy Liu would be great!", without interrogating why it was easy for them to envision her in a purely-platonic relationship with the male lead.

 

^This. And I say this as someone like you, who liked their relationship as it was. 

 

1 hour ago, angora said:

For sure. From Star Wars, you can add Rey and Finn, along with Jyn and Cassian from Rogue One.

It is tv tropes worthy. Can anyone suggest a good name? I have some ideas...

Doomed Interracial Romance.

Unlucky POC Love Interest.

RMS Interracial Bait and Switch.

 

4 hours ago, Popples said:

Ugh, really? I'm surprised I didn't even catch that many POC Romantic False Leads in the series.

I think the Angelina thing is what really made me sit up and notice because it's just so... random? It was one of those her many post-book Q & As when someone asked her how the non-trio mains ended up, and she just threw in this bit about Angelina and George's marriage being dysfunctional for no logical reason. Like it bothered her that she had to give that much.

[Danny Franks]

On 6/16/2020 at 5:35 PM, ursula said:

It is tv tropes worthy. Can anyone suggest a good name? I have some ideas...

Doomed Interracial Romance.

Unlucky POC Love Interest.

RMS Interracial Bait and Switch.

 

Ichabod and Abby on Sleepy Hollow was a big one. The chemistry between the two actors, and the dynamic between their characters, really drove that show. The showrunners didn't like it, and ended up killing Abby off in season 3. Then they tried  (and failed) to reboot the show without her.

Mako and Raleigh in Pacific Rim.

Spooner and Calvin in I, Robot.

There's definitely a sense of 'if these characters were the same colour, they'd definitely hook up but... they're not.'

Not-Love Interest is a trope, but it doesn't seem to quite cover this.

[DearEvette]

Ugh.  Even now years later, just the mention of Ichabod and Abbie sends me into a rage spiral.  Time has not blunted this!

There is a 'Like goes with Like' romance trope, that doesn't quite cover it either because it assumes a romance triangle between two non-white partners and a white third, where it is the white person who is the interloper who needs to step aside.   I kinda like 'If only they were white'  LOL.

[In2You]

Actress Dana Davis who is also the author of 3 young adult novels and the upcoming memoir of veteran soap opera actress Melody Thomas Scott spoke recently about her Blacklisting experience in an interview with her literary agency. The show was Franklin & Bash.

http://www.triadaus.com/romanandjewel.html

Triada: Currently, there are protests and demonstrations against police brutality and systemic racism going on across the country and world. Could you say more about Hollywood's part in systemic racism?
 
Dana L. Davis: There are many moments, but one stands out above them all. I was once working on a TV show as a series regular where I wore a Black Barbie shirt to work. The shirt featured a Black Barbie with a beautiful fro. When someone commented that my character should wear her hair like that, the executive producer of the show said, to a room full of cast and crew, “No. We don’t want this character to be ghetto.” And everyone laughed. I was humiliated.

This same executive producer was writing storylines for my character that I felt to be stereotypical and degrading. When I approached him about it, and also that I wanted my character to be a more integral part of the show and not the Black sidekick, he basically said if I didn’t like what he was creating, I could leave the show. So when I did exactly that, I left the show, he trashed my name to the network and around Hollywood. Certain casting directors refused to even see me because of the terrible things this man said about me, and the network has never worked with me again. A network I love. I never got to tell the network my side of the story which was heartbreaking.

One time, a producer wrote a line where a character pulled out my hair and my character was supposed to scream, “Ow! You pulled out my weave!” I was the only Black girl in the scene and I refused to say the line. It was degrading. I stood up for myself and my career suffered because of it. It’s not fair. White actors do it all the time. But as a Black actor, I was labeled difficult because I wanted a voice. I deserved one. I still do. But this is how Hollywood behaves. I hope it changes. I hope this new Civil Rights Movement creates change. We need it. 
 
 

[Annber03]

Damn, that executive producer. What a dick. 

That really sucks. 

[MissyPoo]

Dang I've been wondering what happened to Dana and why she hasn't been in more things (loved her Lifetime movie). I'm excited she's been busy (and an author! woo hoo!) and she was able to tell what happened on F&B. I hope that producer's name is revealed one day so he can get the proper dragging he deserves.

Now excuse me, I have some books to add to my cart. 

[paulvdb]

Since the topic of Sleepy Hollow was mentioned, Deadline just published what Nicole Beharie says about it in interviews with The San Diego Union-Tribune and The New York Times.

Quote

“My costar and I were both sick at the same time but I don’t believe that we were treated equally,” she told The San Diego Union-Tribune. “He was allowed to go back to England for a month [to recover while] I was given Episode 9 to shoot on my own. So I pushed through it and then by the end of that episode I was in urgent care. And all the doctors, including the doctors that the studio was sending, were all confirming, ‘Hey, she can’t work right now.'”

Production shut down for two weeks because of her illness, she told the Times. She also said she had daily checkups “to make sure I was actually sick” — and when doctors told her she needed to rest, Beharie added, “that’s not what they wanted to hear.”

“There’s a lot of pressure in a situation like that where so many people are relying on you alone to get up and get going,” she said. “I feel like it’s taken me the last few years to really see clearly that it wasn’t personal, it’s about the way that these structures are set up. It was very difficult to talk about at the time because I wanted to get back to work. But I was labeled as problematic and blacklisted by some people.”

 

[possibilities]

The people who made Sleepy Hollow (and ruined it, because of their racist agenda) are the ones who should never work again.

[peachmangosteen]

Does anyone know what autoimmune disease Nicole Beharie has?

[In2You]

9 hours ago, MissyPoo said:

Dang I've been wondering what happened to Dana and why she hasn't been in more things (loved her Lifetime movie). I'm excited she's been busy (and an author! woo hoo!) and she was able to tell what happened on F&B. I hope that producer's name is revealed one day so he can get the proper dragging he deserves.

Now excuse me, I have some books to add to my cart. 

Everyone who laughed and let those microaggressions against her fly needs to be dragged. Include Gosselar and Meyer since they weren't newbies.

[Trini]

5 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Does anyone know what autoimmune disease Nicole Beharie has?

I could only find one article about it (based on an instagram post which no longer exists), and she didn't specify which disease.

----

I never watched Sleepy Hollow (save for a few clips) but I did pay attention to news about it since it was one of the few TV shows ever to have a Black woman lead. I remember thinking at the time that it was extremely fishy that Beharie "decided" to leave and her character was killed off. (Some in the media picked up on this as well.) It's horrible the way she was treated.

Another reminder that there also needs to be people of color behind the scenes also, and in executive positions; and they need to have their views heard and respected.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Trini

[DearEvette]

On 6/21/2020 at 4:16 PM, Trini said:

I remember thinking at the time that it was extremely fishy that Beharie "decided" to leave and her character was killed off. (Some in the media picked up on this as well.) It's horrible the way she was treated.

Yeah, pretty much everybody side-eyed that story.  The Sleepy Hollow boards was basically a #webeenknew hastag.  LOL.

The cherry on top was after Abbie was killed off and I think it was the May upfronts prior to Season 4.  The TCA pressed hard on the backlash the network was getting for killiong off Abbie.  For months they had been selling the line that Nikki wanted off, but then the story "suddenly" changed.   The friggin' head of Fox entertainment, Dana Walden said:

“a variety of factors led to the ending” and that it was “not a decision we wanted to make” but “we were put in a position where we had to make it.”

And then she had to nerve to add:

“What we know is that Tom Mison is a big star. And the Ichabod Crane character has been so central to the series and the storytelling and he feels like an original, big Fox character. And there was also a tremendous amount of enthusiasm from fans about the show coming back and about Tom having the ability to be the center of the series."

Yeah.. I am not still bitter or anything....

[xaxat]

In addition to Nicole/Abby, I didn't like the way they handled Orlando Jones/Frank. The show tried to paint his departure as voluntary, but he used social media to make it clear he was fired.

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 minutes ago, xaxat said:

In addition to Nicole/Abby, I didn't like the way they handled Orlando Jones/Frank. The show tried to paint his departure as voluntary, but he used social media to make it clear he was fired.

Orlando was AWESOME with his truth telling!

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, xaxat said:

In addition to Nicole/Abby, I didn't like the way they handled Orlando Jones/Frank. The show tried to paint his departure as voluntary, but he used social media to make it clear he was fired.

Me too. When Frank began to be sidelined it was my first real indicator that the show was going in the opposite direction I wanted. I bailed when it became clear the Abbie was being treated the same way.

I really wonder how the show ended up with a diverse cast to start. I liked Tom Mison in the first episodes but it was Nicole, Orlando and John Cho were that sold me on the show. 
 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Guest

[DearEvette]

2 hours ago, Dani said:

I really wonder how the show ended up with a diverse cast to start. I liked Tom Mison in the first episodes but it was Nicole, Orlando and John Cho were that sold me on the show. 

Season one had a very different behind the scenes crew than seasons 2 and 3.

As I recall --  Roberto Orci, Alex Kurtzman and Len Wiseman were deeply involved and very hands on early on.  I remember early interviews where they talked up both Beharie and Jones.  They kinda backed off at the end of S1 and Kurztman went on to do Star Trek Discovery.

Season two was the beginning for the end.  It was still watchable , but Mark Goffman's  love of Katrina (Katia Winter) was super evident.  It was too bad because Goffman was a good writer and had written some of the best episodes of the show, including the stellar season finale, Tempus Fugit.  But he sucked as a showrunner.  And that was when the noticeable sidelining of Jones took place.  And even to some extent, Nicole.

He was ousted (rightfully so) and Season 3 was when it really got bad.  Sam Chalsen and M. Raven Metzner took over and they brought on Busty Ross and put Jennie in a micro-mini skirt in one episode because they thought Lynddie Greenwood was hot.  Sam Chalsen also wrote the episode in season two that put Katrina in a corset and skinny jeans.  So there you go.

Edited June 23, 2020 by DearEvette

[Sparger Springs]

They ruined sleepy hollow and I was pleased when they finally cancelled that nonsense.  They took a show that people loved and turned it into the Ichy and Katrina show. Nobody signed up for that.  I hope Nichole goes on to win all the awards.  

[callie lee 29]

Sleepy Hollow show runners can go fuck themselves sideways  to Sunday for screwing over Orlando Jones. He may have been my favorite thing on that show. Between him and John Cho leaving i was done. 

And they really missed the boat with Nichole and Tom.  Those two had amazing chemistry. I'd still be watching them today fighting headless creepies if I could. Instead  we got Katrina.  We did not deserve that.

[Enigma X]

Before Sleepy Hollow, I never knew showrunners could commit show suicide more heinously and swiftly than the showrunners of Heroes did. Alas, those behind Sleepy Hollow had to instruct someone to hold their beers.

[ursula]

1 hour ago, Enigma X said:

Before Sleepy Hollow, I never knew showrunners could commit show suicide more heinously and swiftly than the showrunners of Heroes did. Alas

I concluded then that Sleepy Hollow (like Twisted on ABC Family) was proof that networks would rather see a show fail with white leads than succeed with one black lead.

[kieyra]

16 minutes ago, ursula said:

I concluded then that Sleepy Hollow (like Twisted on ABC Family) was proof that networks would rather see a show fail with white leads than succeed with one black lead.

That one still stings.

Like a lot of otherwise clueless but well meaning folk, I was still in the process of becoming “woke” while that was going on, and even I was fucking flabbergasted. How do you throw away your lightning in a bottle like that? 

[Trini]

Remembering Twisted still makes me twitchy - but it had so many other writing problems as well.

[GHScorpiosRule]

14 hours ago, callie lee 29 said:

Sleepy Hollow show runners can go fuck themselves sideways  to Sunday for screwing over Orlando Jones. He may have been my favorite thing on that show. Between him and John Cho leaving i was done. 

And they really missed the boat with Nichole and Tom.  Those two had amazing chemistry. I'd still be watching them today fighting headless creepies if I could. Instead  we got Katrina.  We did not deserve that.

AND Orlando was one of its biggest fans! I mean, I remember reading all his live tweets during the show, the interviews with Nichole and Tom. They had a gold mine there, and just TRASHED and FUBAR'D it.

[andromeda331]

15 hours ago, Dani said:

Me too. When Frank began to be sidelined it was my first real indicator that the show was going in the opposite direction I wanted. I bailed when it became clear the Abbie was being treated the same way.

I really wonder how the show ended up with a diverse cast to start. I liked Tom Mison in the first episodes but it was Nicole, Orlando and John Cho were that sold me on the show. 
 

I loved all four characters so much. They sold me on the show. I loved Abbie and Crane's friendship. Orlando and John were such great characters. I wish I had realized what was up and quit when Frank was sidelined. It was the bump up of Katrina that made me realize they were changing the show from the one I loved to the Katrina show and quit. I hate when shows do that. I didn't sign up for the Katrina show. I signed up to watch Crane, Abbie, Frank, Jennie and Andy.

15 hours ago, Sparger Springs said:

They ruined sleepy hollow and I was pleased when they finally cancelled that nonsense.  They took a show that people loved and turned it into the Ichy and Katrina show. Nobody signed up for that.  I hope Nichole goes on to win all the awards.  

So was I. I cheered when it was canceled and same when Person of Interest which I never forgave for killing off Carter. 

[Luckylyn]

The Sleepy Hallow situation felt like a bait and switch.  They started off really strong and then it shifted to make Katrina more screen time.  I wasn’t happy with the direction the show seemed to be going in and quit after Season 2.

[festivus]

I stayed till the end of season three because I couldn't let go of Abbie but the show made my decision for me.  

[methodwriter85]

6 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

The Sleepy Hallow situation felt like a bait and switch.  They started off really strong and then it shifted to make Katrina more screen time.  I wasn’t happy with the direction the show seemed to be going in and quit after Season 2.

I left in season 2 and really didn't regret my decision when I learned they killed off Abby.

I was promised The X Files meets Supernatural and instead they tried to set up Hart to Hart: The Cranes. I wasn't even a shipper for Abigail/Ichabod but it was painfully obvious to anyone watching the show that they were pushing Abby out for Katrina. Hell, they got to the point where they were making the headless horseman in love with Katrina and having Katia Winters play a dual role on the show. Even though they put a brake on that, there was no way I was going to trust the show and I was right.

 

[peachmangosteen]

I loved Sleepy Hollow but I gave up on it before season 1 even ended, I believe. Or maybe I watched all of season 1 but didn't come back for season 2. I actually think I might have just had something else to watch at the time or got busy or something but boy am I glad I got out when I did lol.

22 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I cheered when it was canceled and same when Person of Interest which I never forgave for killing off Carter. 

Was there more to that story? I didn't start watching POI until it was going into it's final season so I missed the media when that actually happened. It seemed weird to me that they killed her off.

[supposebly]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

Was there more to that story? I didn't start watching POI until it was going into it's final season so I missed the media when that actually happened. It seemed weird to me that they killed her off.

I didn't follow any media but to me, killing Carter did smell a lot like a combination of providing some unmotivated man pain for Reese with getting rid of the POC.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, supposebly said:

I didn't follow any media but to me, killing Carter did smell a lot like a combination of providing some unmotivated man pain for Reese with getting rid of the POC.

Not from what I read--those being the interviews out at the time--it was to shove out Carter and make room for that wretched Amybabyvoicewhat'sherface, who played Root and Sarah Shahi--who, while is of Iranian descent, character was White. And it was Nolan and the other show runner's wives, who asked "where are the women?" BULLSHIT, when Carter was RIGHT THERE. And they both found Shahi "hot" so there you go.

While it took me awhile to warm up to Carter, what they did was gross. And Taraji was a good employee, toeing the company line, agreeing with the spin that Carter was always going to leave after three seasons/be killed off BULLSHIT.

I've always been honest that what kept me watching was Reese and Finch--Reese was the Batman without the Cowl for me, and everyone knows that I am BATMAN'S BITCH.

Root ruined the show for me to the point that I didn't watch the last five episodes to the show's end.

Edited June 24, 2020 by GHScorpiosRule
Spelling is Important!

[festivus]

I didn't mind Root or Shaw but I didn't understand why Carter had to die for them to be on the show. 'Oh noes, we can't have three women on the show, somebody think of the children!' I do suspect some racism was involved.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Was there more to that story? I didn't start watching POI until it was going into it's final season so I missed the media when that actually happened. It seemed weird to me that they killed her off.

At the time Taraji flat out denied that race played a part. 

TVLINE | But diving deeper, as you can appreciate, some people are like, “Oh, man, they had to go and kill off the black character.”
I know…. That’s why we’re talking, so that everybody knows it’s not like that at all.

Then last year Taraji said that that it was her decision to leave to because she was creatively unsatisfied. 

"I had to leave a show before, and it was the most money I'd ever seen in my life, and I was so miserable. It was stealing my joy. I just remember praying to God: 'God, I'm not happy creatively.'" 

"The next day, I called the producer. He got it. And I walked away, not even knowing where I was going. I ended up doing a play in Pasadena. I didn't care about who was coming to the theater, executives or casting directors. It was about Taraji falling back in love with this craft." 

Edited June 24, 2020 by Guest

[andromeda331]

21 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Not from what I read--those being the interviews out at the time--it was to shove out Carter and make room for that wretched Amybabyvoicewhat'sherface, who played Root and Sarah Shahi--who, while is of Iranian descent, character was White. And it was Nolan and the other show runner's wives, who asked "where are the women?" BULLSHIT, when Carter was RIGHT THERE. And they both found Shahi "hot" so there you go.

While it took me awhile to warm up to Carter, what they did was gross. And Tanaji was a good employee, toeing the company line, agreeing with the spin that Carter was always going to leave after three seasons/be killed off BULLSHIT.

I've always been honest that what kept me watching was Reese and Finch--Reese was the Batman without the Cowl for me, and everyone knows that I am BATMAN'S BITCH.

Root ruined the show for me to the point that I didn't watch the last five episodes to the show's end.

When the show started wasn't sure if I could see Michael Emerson aka Finch as anyone but Ben from Lost or what they were going to do with Carter especially after she turned Reese over to Snow. Where they going to have her keep investigating him? Talking at a distance? But she grew on me fast. All four characters became my favorite. What I loved about Carter aside from being awesome and badass was unlike Finch, Reese, and Lionel she never made a mistake that she was trying to redeem herself for. She was a cop who had always done the right thing. I really think the show needed that. It was perfect with the four. I hated Shah but I could have gotten used to her. I hated Root so much. But killing of Carter was the last straw. I quit and even when the show came up in reruns I always watched up to that episode and quit. 

3 minutes ago, Dani said:

At the time Taraji flat out denied that race played a part. 

TVLINE | But diving deeper, as you can appreciate, some people are like, “Oh, man, they had to go and kill off the black character.”
I know…. That’s why we’re talking, so that everybody knows it’s not like that at all.

Then last year Taraji said that that it was her decision to leave to because she was creatively unsatisfied. 

"I had to leave a show before, and it was the most money I'd ever seen in my life, and I was so miserable. It was stealing my joy. I just remember praying to God: 'God, I'm not happy creatively.'" 

"The next day, I called the producer. He got it. And I walked away, not even knowing where I was going. I ended up doing a play in Pasadena. I didn't care about who was coming to the theater, executives or casting directors. It was about Taraji falling back in love with this craft." 

Maybe but Carter had also been sidelined while they made room for Shaw and Root. I wonder if she would have been happier if she had more to do on the show. 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Maybe but Carter had also been sidelined while they made room for Shaw and Root. I wonder if she would have been happier if she had more to do on the show. 

Oh I’m sure that you’re right. Although I would argue that Carter was sidelined from the very beginning. She never had the role that she deserved. The show wanted to play with damaged characters and Carter got pushed out right when she should have been given more to do. 

[Browncoat]

I quit watching when Carter was killed off.  I don't even watch reruns.

[Trini]

4 hours ago, Dani said:

... The show wanted to play with damaged characters and Carter got pushed out right when she should have been given more to do. 

At that time it seemed like they wanted to kill someone off for shock value; and I thought it would be Fusco, because we already had two white guys and he was the most useless of the regulars. But no - they had to go with Carter. 😠 The one woman, and the one Black character of the original cast.

[DearEvette]

9 hours ago, Dani said:

Oh I’m sure that you’re right. Although I would argue that Carter was sidelined from the very beginning. She never had the role that she deserved. The show wanted to play with damaged characters and Carter got pushed out right when she should have been given more to do. 

They never really used Carter well.  As is typical is many shows she was given the thankless role of being the 'good, but clueless' character who doesn't really know what is going on (kinda like Iris was in season one of The Flash).  Even Fusco, though he didn't know about the machine, was more clued in to the Reese/John partnership before she was. 

I hated that they killed her off.  I hated even more that just before she got killed off she got to shine.  I think I could have dealt better if she had still been given so little to do and then let go.  But no they went and gave Carter a fab storyline in the first part if season 3 and Taraji ate it up.  So after two seasons of giving her so little to do, they dangle a big meaty steak in front of us, let us eat half of it and then yank it away for good.  Also letting John kiss her right before she died just felt like a slap in the face of their shippers.  So much wrong there.

[peachmangosteen]

This is a panel of black players of Survivor that I linked on the Survivor board and thought I should link here in case anyone was interested even if they don't watch Survivor.

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

12 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Also letting John kiss her right before she died just felt like a slap in the face of their shippers.  So much wrong there.

And that wasn't even in the script. Caviezel himself stated that that was him kissing Taraji. He talked to Taraji and told him he wanted to do something and for to just go with it. I think. Or that he had an idea.

I never shipped them. I was all about Reese and Zoe, who was Selena to his Batman.

What?

That said, before I go off topic, while I hated what Nolan and Company did, I was watching for the relationship between Reese and Finch; they had some awesome villains and supporting characters. EXCEPT for Amybabyvoicedwhat'sherface and Shahi.

Edited June 25, 2020 by GHScorpiosRule

[Enigma X]

I liked Person of Interest before Root came, but I also thought (and still think) that Caviezel is a very bad actor. I will admit that once I saw the kiss, I realized that Reese and Carter was the ship I wanted to board. 

I was really not a Root fan and hated the whole last season.

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I liked Person of Interest before Root came, but I also thought (and still think) that Caviezel is a very bad actor.

Just kidding! We like who we like!😉 Or don't like.

[Trini]

6 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And that wasn't even in the script. Caviezel himself stated that that was him kissing Taraji. He talked to Taraji and told him he wanted to do something and for to just go with it. I think. Or that he had an idea.

Here's an interview with the POI showrunners, and another with Taraji that mention that the kiss was Caviezel's idea.

But reading that showrunner interview again - again, I sideeye that common showrunner idea that they *have* to kill off someone demonstrate that "no one is safe", yet Carter was the only one of the original cast to die (murdered) before the series finale. Reese died with a self-sacrifice at the very end of the series; everyone else lived on if I'm not mistaken.

[andromeda331]

23 hours ago, DearEvette said:

They never really used Carter well.  As is typical is many shows she was given the thankless role of being the 'good, but clueless' character who doesn't really know what is going on (kinda like Iris was in season one of The Flash).  Even Fusco, though he didn't know about the machine, was more clued in to the Reese/John partnership before she was. 

I hated that they killed her off.  I hated even more that just before she got killed off she got to shine.  I think I could have dealt better if she had still been given so little to do and then let go.  But no they went and gave Carter a fab storyline in the first part if season 3 and Taraji ate it up.  So after two seasons of giving her so little to do, they dangle a big meaty steak in front of us, let us eat half of it and then yank it away for good.  Also letting John kiss her right before she died just felt like a slap in the face of their shippers.  So much wrong there.

Its really similar to Sleepy Hollow. Both shows started off great with four great characters with one more great one being added to Sleepy Hollow. They had a lot to work with. All four worked great together. But the showrunners either didn't notice or didn't care. They ended up sidelining characters we did like for someone else who wasn't even all that great. Then killed off Abbie and Carter as if they didn't matter as if fans didn't love them and just assumed everyone would get it over with and love the characters being shoved down their throats. It really stinks. Both were great shows with so much potential. 

Edited June 26, 2020 by andromeda331

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

they had some awesome villains  

Yes, they did. I loved Elias. I know he was terrible but I really liked him. Not to mention the great way we met him. Him taking out most of the mob bosses and killing his own father is one of my favorite episodes. We also had Carter being awesome in kidnapping the mob bosses and refusing to let Elias in not even after he kidnapped her son. There were so many great episodes. I loved Zoe too. She was so cool. And it was fun watching her just pop up like at the hotel in season two. 

[Neurochick]

Showrunners must study the "New York Undercover" nonsense.  New York Undercover was a good show for 3 seasons with a largely POC cast.  Then either the showrunners or FOX itself decided to make the show more "generic" meaning, "let's get rid of all theses POC and New York types so white folks in middle America can enjoy the show." 

The fourth season was the last. 

That was in 1999 and given what happened with Sleepy Hollow no one learned their lesson.

[DearEvette]

Even though I hated that Carter was killed and immediately stopped watching the show, I don't have the Kill it with fire!  reaction to re-watching pre-dead Carter eps of POI that I have with Sleepy Hollow.

Since it is on Netflix I decided to start catching some eps again.  And yeah, early season 1 Carter was really not deployed well at all.  But **Shallow Alert**  I love her HAIR!  Man Taraji's hair was fire in this.  Either she did her own hair or CBS actually ponied up for a real black lady hair stylist.  Also her wardrobe was tough girl chic.  She was rocking some good leather boot and leather jacket combos.

Also, I had forgotten how damn pretty Jim Caviezel is.  Even when he is doing that frozen thousand-yard stare he perfects in this (and there are times when he looks like a stone cold serial killer) he is so.... pretty.

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by DearEvette

[Guest]

On 6/25/2020 at 1:58 PM, Enigma X said:

I liked Person of Interest before Root came, but I also thought (and still think) that Caviezel is a very bad actor. I will admit that once I saw the kiss, I realized that Reese and Carter was the ship I wanted to board. 

I was really not a Root fan and hated the whole last season.

They really should have ended the show before the last season. If I’m remembering correctly Caviezel and Emerson wanted to work less which led to the shift in focus towards Root and Shaw. Then Shahi’s pregnancy left Root center stage and the whole show suffered.  

 

8 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Even though I hated that Carter was killed and immediately stopped watching the show, I don't have the Kill it with fire!  reaction to re-watching pre-dead Carter eps of POI that I have with Sleepy Hollow.

I continued to watch after Carter was killed and most of my bitterness over her death ended when Henson went on to Empire and Hidden Figures. Ever since then I’ve thought the spin at the time was cover for the fact that their high profile Oscar nominee wanted out. 

Edited June 27, 2020 by Guest

[Neurochick]

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Also, I had forgotten how damn pretty Jim Caviezel is.  Even when he is doing that frozen thousand-yard stare he perfects in this (and there are times when he looks like a stone cold serial killer) he is so.... pretty.

And he's very tall too.  POI filmed an episode in one of the city's indoor pools.  I know the lifeguard and he told me Jim Caviezel was real tall and a very nice guy. 

[biakbiak]

The Simpson’s will no longer have white actors voicing characters of color. Hank Azaria had already stated he would no longer voice Apu several months ago.

Also, Big Mouth is recasting the role of Missy who is bi-racial previously voiced by Jenny Slate and Central Park is recasting the bi-racial character voiced by Kristen Bell.

Edited June 27, 2020 by biakbiak

[BetterButter]