Race & Ethnicity On TV

[janie jones]

To be honest, I know nothing at all about hair school, but I'm surprised you aren't expected to be decent at dealing with a variety of hair textures.

Second of all, these fuckin stylists.  If I'd never done a black person's hair before and got a job on a show where I'd need to do black people's hair, I'd do my best to learn so that I could do my fucking job.  How are you not embarrassed that you're so incapable of doing what you're being paid to do that the actress has to do it for you?  How are you too proud to expand your skills?  It's like if you got a job as a secretary and just never bothered to learn to type.  It's incomprehensible to me.  I guess I'm not racist enough.

[praeceptrix]

Tallahassee Florida is looking to fill a gap and has launched a 24/7 cable TV Black News Channel.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51449735

From the article:

The first US national news channel to cater to African-American viewers has launched in Florida.

The Black News Channel (BNC) will cover news "culturally specific to the African American community", said the new cable news network.

The BNC said it planned to target the "image gap" in negative black stereotypes depicted in the media.

[UNOSEZ]

4 minutes ago, praeceptrix said:

Tallahassee Florida is looking to fill a gap and has launched a 24/7 cable TV Black News Channel.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51449735

From the article:

The first US national news channel to cater to African-American viewers has launched in Florida.

The Black News Channel (BNC) will cover news "culturally specific to the African American community", said the new cable news network.

The BNC said it planned to target the "image gap" in negative black stereotypes depicted in the media.

I'll be keeping an eye for its content.. Its being spearheaded by former congressman J.C Watts... And I Get rge feeling it may have a decidedly conservative bend... But I'll keep an open mind and I do try to support all my brothers and  sisters... Tho if I see some diamond & silk type nonsense... I'm out

[Stats Queen]

4 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

I'll be keeping an eye for its content.. Its being spearheaded by former congressman J.C Watts... And I Get rge feeling it may have a decidedly conservative bend... But I'll keep an open mind and I do try to support all my brothers and  sisters... Tho if I see some diamond & silk type nonsense... I'm out

J.C. Watts may be a republican but I don’t see him as being an extreme conservative, but more someone who today would be considered center right. He seems sensible and in touch with the world around him. Hopefully I’m not wrong. He always seemed to me as someone who wanted to lift everyone up. I am white, though, so I would not presume to understand anyone else’s experiences.

i was thinking about him a few days ago, and now I hear about him doing this. The fact that he kept out of the spotlight for a number of years is not a bad thing.

JHMO

[UNOSEZ]

I'm probably just in a mood today.. But these casting directors or hair stylists  or whoever is in charge of this... They gotta quit with the curly flop fro that they seem to wanna stick with all us bi/ multi-racial black ppl.. Its just... Too much on tv today between shows and commercials I musta seen about 11 on boys and girls.. Men and women... I'm mixed.. Almost all my close friends were mixed.. Most of my family is mixed.. I don't know ANYONE who's ever had that hairstyle.. But seemingly every white parent with a mysteriously or tragically dead black spouse seems to have a kid with that ridiculous mess on their head ( I see you Richard flood on Grey's)...  Ugh

[proserpina65]

On ‎02‎/‎09‎/‎2020 at 10:14 AM, Hiyo said:

Here is another article about diversity on Dr. Who.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/jan/08/doctor-who-more-offensive-than-ever-jodie-whittaker-pc

That's an interesting article.  I haven't watched Doctor Who since Jodie Whittaker took over, partly because I didn't really want a female Doctor, but mostly because I really don't like Whittaker as an actress.  (There are actresses who could've won me over but she isn't one of them.)  I was interested in the new companions, but it sounds like I wouldn't like this particular incarnation of the Doctor for a lot of the reasons detailed in the article.

On ‎02‎/‎09‎/‎2020 at 5:04 PM, Raja said:

Los Angeles segregation was a different animal than Southern segregation 

Maybe, but that doesn't excuse not having hairstylists on sets where there are black actresses.

On ‎02‎/‎09‎/‎2020 at 6:43 PM, Neurochick said:

True, and that's why those hairstylists will never make much $$$.

Black women spend more than white women to get their hair done, and I believe that's a fact.

It sounds like it would be worth it to get any extra training required.  Why cut oneself out of a potentially high-spending clientele?

[Hiyo]

Quote

There are actresses who could've won me over but she isn't one of them

Too bad Alex Kingston already appeared on the show, I think she could've made a good Doctor.

[DearEvette]

A Fun, violent, snarky, space opera.  And it stars a WOC as the titular royal character?   So very much in my viewing wheelhouse.

 

[Anduin]

10 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

A Fun, violent, snarky, space opera.  And it stars a WOC as the titular royal character?   So very much in my viewing wheelhouse.

 

That trailer wouldn't show up for me, so here's one that did work.

Anyway, it looks... interesting, I think. Like it could either be GOTG or, shudder, Valerian. I'm desperately hoping for the former. One to check out, thanks.

[selkie]

On 2/14/2020 at 1:44 PM, Hiyo said:

Too bad Alex Kingston already appeared on the show, I think she could've made a good Doctor.

Who canon is that a Time Lord can regenerate into an appearance of someone they'd known before. Lalla Ward was first cast as Princess Astra in the show and then became Romana #2 when Mary Tamm (Romana #1) asked to leave the show. 

[aradia22]

Quote

Has anyone seen Dolemite is My Name on Netflix?  My husband and I watched it last night and it is fantastic. 

Late reply but yes. I was a little bit bored but that's part of my contention that movies are too long and someone needs to step in and tell people to make some cuts. It is a RARE movie I watch these days that I think earns it's 2 hour running time. Especially on streaming services, I feel like creators do what they want with the running times for movies and TV shows instead of making judicious cuts to end up with a stronger final product. I liked Eddie Murphy but I didn't love him. I didn't find a lot of the Dolemite bits (like the actual stand up) funny and he didn't seem fully comfortable doing someone else's material and I don't think the rest of the movie demanded great acting from him. The script was okay but not that strong. Like, the whole thing with his dad went nowhere. I wish they'd also gone somewhere with Tituss Burgess' character and Rudy's casual homophobia. It was like a Judy or Disaster Artist level of movie. I'm not mad I watched it but I'm glad I didn't pay for it. My big takeaway from the movie was that I've really missed Wesley Snipes and I hope he gets more work. 

[aradia22]

Quote

A Fun, violent, snarky, space opera.  And it stars a WOC as the titular royal character?   So very much in my viewing wheelhouse.

Oh my God, is "grew up in Canada" guy the guy from Instant Star??

[paulvdb]

4 hours ago, aradia22 said:

Oh my God, is "grew up in Canada" guy the guy from Instant Star??

I haven't watched the trailer, but Tim Rozon (Tommy Q from Instant Star) is supposed to be in this.

[Spartan Girl]

Hank Azaria: "It didn't feel right to play Apu anymore."

It would have been nice if he realized this years ago, but good for him for doing some soul-searching and coming to this decision.  That's more than what the show's writers have said, which was just the tone deaf, "Oh everybody on this show is stereotyped, shut up." 

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Hank Azaria: "It didn't feel right to play Apu anymore."

It would have been nice if he realized this years ago, but good for him for doing some soul-searching and coming to this decision.  That's more than what the show's writers have said, which was just the tone deaf, "Oh everybody on this show is stereotyped, shut up." 

Yup. The 2017 documentary The Problem with Apu by  Hari Kondabolu showed just how TONE DEAF the creators and critics (ALL WHITE--Gee what a surprise!) were about this character. It's like, shut up, you Desis; anything that misrepresents you or shows you in a stereotype isn't important for you to get your feathers in a ruffle, because you're just not that important.

[Spartan Girl]

57 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Yup. The 2017 documentary The Problem with Apu by  Hari Kondabolu showed just how TONE DEAF the creators and critics (ALL WHITE--Gee what a surprise!) were about this character. It's like, shut up, you Desis; anything that misrepresents you or shows you in a stereotype isn't important for you to get your feathers in a ruffle, because you're just not that important.

I saw that documentary it was good. I feel sorry for all the grief poor Hari got over it from all the whiny racist trolls.

Honestly, Apu isn't the only problem with The Simpsons, it's just the one that got the loudest noise. The show isn't just dated AF, it's not even funny anymore. It is long past time for it to be done.

[adora721]

So, Yahoo.com pointed to an Insider article in which a real couple's therapist gives her opinion on the Netflix TV Show, "To All the Boys I've Loved Before: P.S. I Still Love You." What struck a nerve was Ms. Scott's assertion that, "John Ambrose was manipulative towards Lara Jean".

Below are a few excerpts from the article:

"Scott also said that, to her, John Ambrose came off as manipulative because he didn't give Lara Jean the chance to explain her complicated feelings towards him, and instead wasted no time amping up the romantic tension between them."

"He's so full steam ahead with her that there's no space for her to say, 'Oh, actually I have a boyfriend,' or, 'Actually I'm not looking at this relationship the same way as you are,'" Scott said. "There was just no space for her to have an experience other than his."

John Ambrose is Black and played by an African-American or biracial actor.  I watched the show only a few days ago and found nothing that John did or said manipulative. For the majority of the show, John is completely unaware that Lara Jean (who is Asian) has a boyfriend, Peter, who is White. Even when John brings up Peter, Lara Jean fails to tell John that Peter is her boyfriend even though she has multiple opportunities to tell John. 

I think the therapist's conclusion that John was manipulative is a result of  her bias against a Black person. It reminded me of some online assertions that ten-year-old Iris West was manipulating ten-year-old Barry Allen to fall in love with her when Iris comforted him on the night his mother died and his father was arrested.

How can such a therapist treat real interracial couples if she's prone to ascribing some evil intention to a person of color she might be counseling?

[UNOSEZ]

18 minutes ago, adora721 said:

Peter, who is White.

I really thought he was Latino.. Or half.. Or at the very least Latino of European descent... But naw he pulled a Ariana Grande/Floriana Lima on me... Italian and Dutch 

[Hiyo]

Quote

I think the therapist's conclusion that John was manipulative is a result of  her bias against a Black person.

Mileage varies, I guess. I don't think she is biased, but she does sound like a shitty therapist.

[adora721]

48 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

Mileage varies, I guess. I don't think she is biased, but she does sound like a shitty therapist.

Her impression of Peter was, "In contrast to her impression of John Ambrose, Scott said she was a huge fan of Peter in the movie because his actions and words portrayed emotional vulnerability." "Peter's emotional availability and genuine nature signified a healthier relationship than the one Lara Jean had with John Ambrose, because he came off as more phony and self-serving, Scott said."

Did Ms. Scott not notice that Peter brought up John's childhoold stutter in front of the group at the pizza party? Did Ms. Scott not notice that Peter took the last pizza slice like he's been doing since they were kids? Did Ms. Scott not notice that Peter became combative towards John when John tried to clean up after the party?  Did Ms. Scott not care that Peter was counseling and hugging his ex (Genevieve) and never told Lara Jean about it? Those actions suggested selfishness since Peter showed he hadn't learned to put others at the party ahead of himself, didn't care that Lara Jean might be feel insecure about Gen or embarrassed about his behavior, and showed a careless disregard for John's feelings about his stutter.

While Peter is no villain for his behavior, neither is John for his. So, I disagree that Ms. Scott doesn't have a bias against John.

Edited February 26, 2020 by adora721

[Hiyo]

Yeah, I'd still like more info on the woman before sentencing her to being biased against black people.

But as I said, mileage varies.

[proserpina65]

On ‎02‎/‎14‎/‎2020 at 2:44 PM, Hiyo said:

Too bad Alex Kingston already appeared on the show, I think she could've made a good Doctor.

My dream would've been Helen Mirren, but that's never going to happen.

On ‎02‎/‎16‎/‎2020 at 11:58 AM, selkie said:

Who canon is that a Time Lord can regenerate into an appearance of someone they'd known before. Lalla Ward was first cast as Princess Astra in the show and then became Romana #2 when Mary Tamm (Romana #1) asked to leave the show. 

That is true, but River Song was rather polarizing amongst the fandom.

Vagrant Queen looks very promising.  I'm marking this on my calendar right now.

1 hour ago, adora721 said:

While Peter is no villain for his behavior, neither is John for his. So, I disagree that Ms. Scott doesn't have a bias against John.

It is possible that she's biased against the character for reasons other than race, though.  And, as Hiyo said, she could also just be a shitty therapist.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, adora721 said:

While Peter is no villain for his behavior, neither is John for his. So, I disagree that Ms. Scott doesn't have a bias against John.

She does but it's pretty standard delusional shipper bias talk she's issuing where,  at the hint of a triangle, there's a tendency to erase flaws of the preferred love interest and amplify or invent flaws of the other love interest.

I've seen this kind of analysis by fans in shipper wars regardless of the gender or race of the two options.

That isn't to say that race never plays a part in shipping preferences.   It does.  It's just hard to extrapolate that out with this scenario,  especially given the fact that John wasn't even an option in the first movie. (And the brief moment he's seen, he's played by a different, white actor.) The Peter/LJ ship was established in the first movie and while I'm sure there were people who jumped ship, most who watched the sequel already had a predetermined preference for Peter/LJ. It wouldn't have mattered who played John.

2 hours ago, adora721 said:

Did Ms. Scott not notice that Peter took the last pizza slice like he's been doing since they were kids?

I come from a culture where no one eats the last piece of pizza because they don't want to seem rude....and then it gets tossed.

I refuse to accept the premise that Peter taking it if it's there is rude. It's there within everyone's research. 

[adora721]

4 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

It is possible that she's biased against the character for reasons other than race, though

The setup of the show is that John and Peter were equal in terms of education, but not popularity. They even had the same friends. In Lara Jean's eyes, both were loved or crush on when she was very young girl.  Lara Jean mentions that being with John feels more easy and natural than being with Peter.

As a licensed therapist, Ms. Scott should not have shipper bias. She uses words to describe John that are not based on any evidence in the actual show, such as "self-serving, "manipulative," and "phony." Again, nothing in the narrative supports her conclusions.  Again, this isn't just anyone giving their opinion; it's a licensed therapist.

4 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I refuse to accept the premise that Peter taking it if it's there is rude. It's there within everyone's research. 

I brought up the pizza because John mentioned that Peter did this when they were young kids. Peter doing it as a kid in understandable; kids tend to be self-centered. But Peter still doing it as a 17 year old shows little growth in Peter's ability to let someone else have the last slice, which would have been the gracious and humble thing to do.  I don't think it makes Peter awful; he still has maturing to do.

Edited February 27, 2020 by adora721

[adora721]

4 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

That isn't to say that race never plays a part in shipping preferences.   It does.  It's just hard to extrapolate that out with this scenario,  especially given the fact that John wasn't even an option in the first movie. (And the brief moment he's seen, he's played by a different, white actor.) The Peter/LJ ship was established in the first movie and while I'm sure there were people who jumped ship, most who watched the sequel already had a predetermined preference for Peter/LJ. It wouldn't have mattered who played John.

This licensed therapist should not be acting like a shipper. And it's OK to prefer Peter to John, but John doesn't have to be a "bad" guy for Peter to be the one Lara Jean chooses. This isn't a zero-sum game. I, too, prefer Peter for Lara Jean simply because I was already invested in their relationship from the first series. However, I don't think John is anything like the therapist describes in the article. John is a great guy; I swooned when John played the piano, but he's not the one for Lara Jean.

There are studies that show that doctors, and I'd consider this therapist a type of doctor, hold strong biases against POCs, Black people in particuar, that are hard to root out. In the show, "All Rise", a White doctor was sued because he refused to listen to his Black female patient's concerns after childbirth, which led to her death. I suspect the episode was based on these studies.

ETA: The "All Rise" episode might also have been based on the real-life experience of Serena Williams after she gave birth to her daughter. A nurse was slow to respond to Serena's symptoms and her request for a CT scan to check for an embolism.

Edited February 27, 2020 by adora721

[DearEvette]

Yeah, there are a lot of studies about the racial bias about the pain tolerance of African American patients.  Basically white doctors don't trust black patients to understand their own pain levels and will often under-prescribe medication.

On the one hand... this is terrible.

On the other, it is largely believed to be the reason that the opioid epidemic actually did not hit the black population as hard as it has whites since they were less likely to be prescribed opioid medication.  For once, racial bias actually saved black lives.

Grey's Anatomy had an episode that touched on this when Miranda knew she was having a heart attack, and even though she said she was a doctor and knew the symptoms, the doctor did not believe her.  Also it had another layer beyond race since sometimes heart attack symptoms do not present in women the same way they do in men.

[Irlandesa]

14 hours ago, adora721 said:

Ms. Scott should not have shipper bias.

She can have shipper bias but having that bias means she should have stepped away from trying to analyze the show from a professional standpoint. The fact that she didn't is a pretty good indication that she's not great at her job.

14 hours ago, adora721 said:

But Peter still doing it as a 17 year old shows little growth in Peter's ability to let someone else have the last slice, which would have been the gracious and humble thing to do.

But the pizza slice is there.  Anyone can take it.  The fact that no one else does isn't on Peter. If John wants the last slice, he should take the last slice.

14 hours ago, adora721 said:

There are studies that show that doctors, and I'd consider this therapist a type of doctor, hold strong biases against POCs, Black people in particuar, that are hard to root out.

I know this. I tangentially work in health care and disparities in outcomes based on race, gender, and sexuality are very real problems.  Some of it is due to outright or unconscious bias.  But there's an even more insidious reason found in the systematic racism in how medicine experimented on black and brown bodies or in how clinical trials were run using white men yet extrapolated out to the general population.  That's especially fun for women. And because it's systematic, it's not just relegated to patients who see white doctors. 

But you could say that about pretty much any profession because bias is a real thing.  And that's why it's very possible this therapist is biased.

But solely based on what she said?   Race isn't the first place I'd go.  The last show I watched with a triangle had two white men as potential love interests for a woman and I often wondered what show some fans were watching because they'd do stuff like she did--seemingly invent offenses out of thin air. That's what her comments reminded me of because things like that are common in shipper wars.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Irlandesa

[adora721]

11 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

But solely based on what she said?   Race isn't the first place I'd go.

While I can agree that she may be a shipper and that she may also be a bad therapist, I cannot agree that race isn't the source of her bias. John and Peter are well matched in likeability, looks, and in romantic esteem in Lara Jean's mind. The key difference is their race.

The main reason I believe the therapist has racial bias is that she ignores all of Peter's faults; she doesn't even mention one fault. And yet can find mutliple faults with John. Sure, that might be shipper bias, but it might be racial bias, too. 

Often in shipper wars both sides will point out the faults of the other side to make their case and then declare that the ship of their choice has fewer issues or faults and is the best ship. In this situation, Kelly Scott has declared in a public arena that Peter has zero faults and John has at least three egregious faults that disqualify him as boyfriend material.

Ms. Scott points out that Lara Jean is insecure, but fails to indict Peter for his continued relationship with his ex-GF as feeding into Lara Jean's insecurities. Ms. Scott doesn't indict Lara Jean for not telling John about dating Peter even when Lara Jean knows they'll both be at the pizza party. However, Ms. Scott indicts John for somehow preventing Lara Jean from telling him that she's dating Peter. Basically, nothing is Peter or Lara Jean's fault; it's all John's fault.

If you read her company page, she declares, "I have a solid foundation in evidence-based techniques," And yet, she has zero evidence for her negative conclusions about John. Bad therapist? Maybe. Shipper bias? Maybe. However, the zero-sum nature of her conclusions lead me to believe it's racial bias. We'll just  have to agree to disagree on this. For Ms. Scott to ignore her years of training and experience with families and couples, who surely have different points of view, suggests that something far more powerful than shipper bias is at work here.

ETA: Here's an article about a  study that shows that some White people see race as a zero-sum game and an excerpt:

"Michael Norton is a professor at Harvard Business School. He and his co-author Samuel Sommers, a professor at Tufts, published an article that says whites see racism as a zero-sum game that they are now losing."

Edited February 27, 2020 by adora721

[Trini]

TV Guide did a several articles about Black superheroes for Black History Month: https://www.tvguide.com/news/rise-black-superheroes-black-history-month/

They cover TV and some movie superheroes; they have quotes from actors and producers. One of the articles is a gallery that list most of the (live-action) Black superheroes that have appeared on TV and film; even those not based on comic book characters.

Video of some of the actors discussing their roles:

(The young actor who plays Dion's answer to the question of "What was the first Black superhero you remember?" is adorable!)

 

Edited March 1, 2020 by Trini

[Trini]

Trailer for Self Made: Inspired by the Life of Madam C.J. Walker, the Netflix miniseries.

 

More info: Netflix Sets Premiere Date ..., Unveils First Look At Octavia Spencer Limited Series

[Hiyo]

Quote

But solely based on what she said?   Race isn't the first place I'd go.

Amen to that.

[proserpina65]

19 hours ago, adora721 said:

As a licensed therapist, Ms. Scott should not have shipper bias. She uses words to describe John that are not based on any evidence in the actual show, such as "self-serving, "manipulative," and "phony." Again, nothing in the narrative supports her conclusions.  Again, this isn't just anyone giving their opinion; it's a licensed therapist.

I don't disagree with you there.  She's allowed to have shipper bias when watching a show just like the rest of us, but if she's writing in her professional capacity, as she was in the article, she needs to leave that bias at the door.  I was just saying that it isn't necessarily racial bias at work.  Could be, I don't really know enough about Ms. Scott to say one way or the other.

[aradia22]

Quote

She can have shipper bias but having that bias means she should have stepped away from trying to analyze the show from a professional standpoint. The fact that she didn't is a pretty good indication that she's not great at her job.

I get that people in different professional fields want to occasionally do something fun or maybe spread awareness about their jobs. There are all these videos and articles online with input from real surgeons, lawyers, psychiatrists, etc. And the kind of people who do those little segments on the news or have a talk show. But basically, the more of those things you do, the more I question your professional credibility. The worst ones are the medical doctors who shill dubious products/procedures and the psychologists/therapists who will weigh in on any public person's trauma or psychological profile. Basically, your Dr. Ozs or Dr. Drews. I don't care how long they studied or what degrees they have. They signed it all away to be for-hire hacks.

Also, I know it was announced a while back but after seeing that trailer, I am SO EXCITED for Self-Made. It looks like they went all out with the period costumes and production values. I hope it's good and the script is good. 

[Trini]

'Phil LaMarr Breaks Down His Most Famous Character Voices':

 

Thought it would of interest to this thread since he talks about voicing some of his most famous Black animated characters.

[In2You]

On 2/26/2020 at 2:11 PM, UNOSEZ said:

I really thought he was Latino.. Or half.. Or at the very least Latino of European descent... But naw he pulled a Ariana Grande/Floriana Lima on me... Italian and Dutch 

Noah Centineo is not Latino. He was claiming Puerto Rican to take Latino roles those. A Latinx tv show even asked him about it recently.

 

Ethnicelebs traced his background and couldn't find any Puerto Rican

https://ethnicelebs.com/noah-centineo

[adora721]

On 2/29/2020 at 9:49 PM, aradia22 said:

But basically, the more of those things you do, the more I question your professional credibility.

Exactly. This therapist has made statements that are demonstrably untrue. Just watch the show, and you'll find zero evidence for what she claims to see in John. It totally diminshes her credibility.

To think she'd risk being shown as incompetent just for shipper bias makes no sense to me. One thing more illogical than shipper bias is racial bias, which is what I think is driving her weak arguments. Even if it's shipper bias, it's possible that racial bias is the driving factor for that shipper bias. For evidence, see the Snowbarry shippers who don't like Iris for "some" reason. They think Iris and Barry just don't "look" right together. They claim that WestAllen is boring and Iris is just a love interest, but then swap Caitlin's face on top of Iris' body in WestAllen gifs or make whole videos of so-called Snowbarry moments that are strictly platonic. Shipper bias and racial bias are not mutally exclusive; they often go hand in hand in genre fandoms, unfortunately.

Edited March 13, 2020 by adora721

[In2You]

I tried watching Noughts and Crosses but it just felt like a story to show white people how racism is wrong but flipping the script.

[ursula]

1 hour ago, In2You said:

I tried watching Noughts and Crosses but it just felt like a story to show white people how racism is wrong but flipping the script.

I haven't watched the tv show but I read the book and I actually found it offensive. For a show where black women are supposed to be privileged and protected, the black Juliet ends up being beaten and brutalized more than any other character in the story. One particular white character kidnaps someone, then claims that he found guilty and hanged because he had the audacity to sleep with a black woman... and not because he, you know, kidnapped someone. The romance came out of thin air and was abusive and offensive. It was a "flipped" world that still had black people suffering and white people being entitled. 

And that's not to start with the atrocious world-building (I hear the show improved on this), where everyone answered British names even though "Africa" (and it's vague Africa, they mention no specific ethnicity) colonized Europe. 

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, ursula said:

I haven't watched the tv show but I read the book and I actually found it offensive. For a show where black women are supposed to be privileged and protected, the black Juliet ends up being beaten and brutalized more than any other character in the story. One particular white character kidnaps someone, then claims that he found guilty and hanged because he had the audacity to sleep with a black woman... and not because he, you know, kidnapped someone. The romance came out of thin air and was abusive and offensive. It was a "flipped" world that still had black people suffering and white people being entitled. 

And that's not to start with the atrocious world-building (I hear the show improved on this), where everyone answered British names even though "Africa" (and it's vague Africa, they mention no specific ethnicity) colonized Europe. 

Saw the breakdown for what it was supposed to be and just said naw... I can't sit thru some weirdo world where white folks are the suffering masses Oppressed under some black folk.. Cuz you know history of earth... Gimme intra-racial... Class warfare... Even gender.. But some parasitic oppression obsession seemed gross to me.. 

[In2You]

8 hours ago, ursula said:

I haven't watched the tv show but I read the book and I actually found it offensive. For a show where black women are supposed to be privileged and protected, the black Juliet ends up being beaten and brutalized more than any other character in the story. One particular white character kidnaps someone, then claims that he found guilty and hanged because he had the audacity to sleep with a black woman... and not because he, you know, kidnapped someone. The romance came out of thin air and was abusive and offensive. It was a "flipped" world that still had black people suffering and white people being entitled. 

And that's not to start with the atrocious world-building (I hear the show improved on this), where everyone answered British names even though "Africa" (and it's vague Africa, they mention no specific ethnicity) colonized Europe. 

Yeah I tried read the first book in the series and couldn't get behind it. And the rest of the books per reading recaps sound traumatic as hell. And to think that was one of the very few books black teens had from a British author for a long time.  At least British authors are slowly making some progress. 

Plus it bothers me that there's that whole interracial relationship to prove something as if those actually do anything towards race relations.

Edited April 25, 2020 by In2You

[xaxat]

A history of Grant during the Civil War featuring Ta-Nehisi Coates as a commentator? Sign me up!

 

[Danny Franks]

On 4/24/2020 at 6:47 PM, In2You said:

I tried watching Noughts and Crosses but it just felt like a story to show white people how racism is wrong but flipping the script.

I watched the first couple of episodes, and it just seemed very... shallow. Like the writer thought it would be deep and meaningful and it would get people thinking but it's just 'what if Apartheid happened the other way around?' with a forbidden love story attached.

On the other hand, I've been watching Dear White People on Netflix, and found that far more interesting and thought provoking. The discussions around structural racism, white privilege and light privilege are interesting. Some of it is stuff I've heard before, some of it is new to me.

The way different characters react to, and try to deal with, a world that isn't built for them is really effective. And the show always manages to make every side of the debate feel genuine and understandable (except for Silvio, the gay, Hispanic right wing troll).

Ta-Nehisi Coates describes the show as being "about racism rather than about black people" and that's definitely evident in that most of the storylines revolve around how differences define relationships.

One storyline in the first season that really resonated, for obvious reasons, was the campus cop pulling a gun on Reggie because of a scuffle at a party, and Reggie having to deal with the impact of being rendered so powerless, as well as becoming a "public victim" and having his ordeal immediately (and rightly, I suppose) politicised.

[DearEvette]

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

One storyline in the first season that really resonated, for obvious reasons, was the campus cop pulling a gun on Reggie because of a scuffle at a party, and Reggie having to deal with the impact of being rendered so powerless, as well as becoming a "public victim" and having his ordeal immediately (and rightly, I suppose) politicised.

That was the stand out episode of the season 1 for me.  Such a perfect episode of tv that did everything right had an impeccable structure.  It was fun, funny as hell (until it wasn't), sharp writing and fantastic acting.

[shapeshifter]

Just popping in here to share an early occurrence of terms that I had thought more recently came into common use:

From the Cagney and Lacey episode "Land of the Free, (first aired February 1988):
[DETECTIVE LACEY TO A NUN WHO KNEW THE VICTIM] He was illegal, wasn't he?
[SISTER ELIZABETH] The word is 'undocumented'. People cannot be illegal. 

[ursula]

Miles and Gwen not kissing when they say goodbye at the end of Enter The SpiderVerse after being set up as a romance in the movie was cringey af. Like you can feel the racism radiating out of the screen in that scene. 

I wonder if there's a tv trope for this... the racist version of "No homo, just bros". 

We also need a tv trope for POC Romantic False Leads - Jimmy Olsen, Ned "Nick" Nickerson, Michael Culhane.

JK Rowling was particularly good at this - Dean Thomas, Cho Chang, the Patil twins. Heck, even the emphasized (by her) weirdness of Angelina Jones dating one Weasley twin and marrying another. Like Rowling went on record to describe that marriage as dysfunctional... 🤷🏾‍♀️

Edited June 15, 2020 by ursula

[Popples]

19 minutes ago, ursula said:

JK Rowling was particularly good at this - Dean Thomas, Cho Chang, the Patil twins. Heck, even the emphasized (by her) weirdness of Angelina Jones dating one Weasley twin and marrying another. Like Rowling went on record to describe that marriage as dysfunctional...

Ugh, really? I'm surprised I didn't even catch that many POC Romantic False Leads in the series.

[angora]

2 hours ago, ursula said:

Miles and Gwen not kissing when they say goodbye at the end of Enter The SpiderVerse after being set up as a romance in the movie was cringey af. Like you can feel the racism radiating out of the screen in that scene. 

I wonder if there's a tv trope for this... the racist version of "No homo, just bros". 

We also need a tv trope for POC Romantic False Leads - Jimmy Olsen, Ned "Nick" Nickerson, Michael Culhane.

JK Rowling was particularly good at this - Dean Thomas, Cho Chang, the Patil twins. Heck, even the emphasized (by her) weirdness of Angelina Jones dating one Weasley twin and marrying another. Like Rowling went on record to describe that marriage as dysfunctional... 🤷🏾‍♀️

For sure. From Star Wars, you can add Rey and Finn, along with Jyn and Cassian from Rogue One.

And Abbie and Ichabod from Sleepy Hollow, my god! That show had something so special and they just threw it away. I'm not mad about no Sherlock/Joan on Elementary, because I think it was the right call for that show, but I DO wonder if the creators thought, "We want to make Watson a woman, but we don't want her and Holmes to hook up, so who could we cast? Oh hey, I bet Lucy Liu would be great!", without interrogating why it was easy for them to envision her in a purely-platonic relationship with the male lead.

Crazy Ex-Girlfriend is a tricky one for me. Rebecca's obsession with Josh Chan is SUPPOSED to be unhealthy, more about her mental health issues than about who he is, but as someone who came to the show specifically because I heard about the "Asian male romantic lead," it hurt to immediately see Josh portrayed as kind of a tool and not worth Rebecca's obsession, all while damaged-but-sensitive white bartender Greg was standing right there. The show then pulled the same thing with Nathaniel. Seriously, there were only two straight white guys in the regular cast, and they were both almost INSTANTLY painted as better potential matches for Rebecca than Josh. If they needed to maintain Josh as a symbol demonstrating Rebecca's unhealthy feelings about love, did they really have to make BOTH Greg and Nathaniel white? That felt icky to me.

[callie lee 29]

2 hours ago, angora said:

 

And Abbie and Ichabod from Sleepy Hollow, my god! That show had something so special and they just threw it away. I'm not mad about no Sherlock/Joan on Elementary, because I think it was the right call for that show, but I DO wonder if the creators thought, "We want to make Watson a woman, but we don't want her and Holmes to hook up, so who could we cast? Oh hey, I bet Lucy Liu would be great!", without interrogating why it was easy for them to envision her in a purely-platonic relationship with the male lead.

 

Oh man Sleepy Hollow really messed up when they didn't explore Abbie and Ichabod more. Of course they would have had to keep Abbie around and not totally fuck over the show first..  

[methodwriter85]

Vanessa Morgan has come out and slammed Riverdale for treating her like a sidekick and making her the least paid regular on the show.https://deadline.com/2020/06/riverdale-vanessa-morgan-black-people-portrayed-media-1202949597/ You know what? Good for her. She's right. I've watched every single episode of Riverdale and Toni is clearly just there to smile and look pretty as her (white) girlfriend's piece of arm candy. And remember when they decided to make all of the Pussycats black, patted themselves on the back for it, and then promptly ignored the characters unless Archie was having sex with one of them? I'm not watching Katy Keane but here's hoping Josie gets better treatment.

[DearEvette]

So I started watching Motherland: Fort Salem on FreeForm.  It is an alternate history of the US where there really were witches in Salem and they made a pact with the US govt to help them win wars.  So now in present day the witches are pretty much almost exclusively a military branch all their own with a deep tradition (almost required) military service.  And there is an equally magical big bad group of terrorists they have to fight.

I found the premise interesting and the world building is also pretty interesting.  On the pro side there is nice inclusion.  One of the main characters is a black witch whose family is one of the preeminent witch families whose military history can be traced back to the very beginning of the witch pact.  So she is high society and her family name is a golden ticket.

On the con side, I had to give up because the main character has been imbued with all the most annoying main character traits you can give a person.  She's edgy, she has a tragic back story, she's super special etc. etc.  Meanwhile she is so 'edgy and special' that she also gets to be rude and selfish and is never really called on her shit and is give pass after pass.  She was so petulant! I had to stop watching about halfway through the season because I just wanted to reach into my tv and throat punch her.