Race & Ethnicity On TV

[SistaLadybug]

I agree with all your points, ZaldamoWilder.  I am actually not mad at Tyler.  (I take issue with his (and Oprah's) representation of those of us who aren't fans as "haters" or folks who don't understand.)  I don't knock his hustle.  I see his game and I respect it but I'm not playing it with him.

 

My mother and grandmother and my close friend who is in her 30s but has been an old church lady since she was 13, all love him and find him hilarious.  They are his market.  I am not.  I am way too liberal in thought and behavior.  I am one of the women who in his movies would be vehemently slut-shamed and depicted as emasculating and in need of the love of a good (lightskinned) brotha.  I would probably lose my house in a fire, have my dog run over by a car and develop a horrible cough that would morph into AIDS.  That is why I can't get with his stuff.  Even if he was a kick-ass screenwriter.  Even if he wasn't laughable as Alex Cross.  Even if I didn't find Madea problematic all around.  it is clear to me that he does not like women like me.  Therefore, play on, playa, but you can kiss my ass whle you do it.

[ZaldamoWilder]

My mother and grandmother and my close friend who is in her 30s but has been an old church lady since she was 13, all love him and find him hilarious.  They are his market.  I am not.  I am way too liberal in thought and behavior.  I am one of the women who in his movies would be vehemently slut-shamed and depicted as emasculating and in need of the love of a good (lightskinned) brotha.  I would probably lose my house in a fire, have my dog run over by a car and develop a horrible cough that would morph into AIDS.  That is why I can't get with his stuff.  Even if he was a kick-ass screenwriter.  Even if he wasn't laughable as Alex Cross.  Even if I didn't find Madea problematic all around.  it is clear to me that he does not like women like me.  Therefore, play on, playa, but you can kiss my ass whle you do it.

 

LMAO!!!!!

[ribboninthesky1]

Thanks for sharing ZaldamoWilder.  I diverge on two points:

 

He says this is no different than the dudes who make the same version of a stupid ass frat boy or stoner kid movie that hollywood supports year after year but nobody questions those directors about the quality and delivery of their message.

 
Plenty of criticism is lobbed towards the likes of Michael Bay, Judd Apatow, Seth Rogan, etc.  Or in the case of TV, Ryan Murphy, Shonda Rhimes, JJ Abrams, Robert Orci, etc. Do their movies still make money? Do their shows get high ratings? Yep, sure do.  But that's never exempted them from critiques.
 

He's writing to, for, about and featuring bible toting, outspoken, big mamas everywhere and by design, isn't even trying to appeal to us.   What he says is the benefit is that a largely unaddressed niche sees themselves or people they can relate to represented on screen, where a *voice* for this audience simply didn't exist before.

 
Eh, all I see is the chitlin' circuit gone mainstream.  If he thinks that it's only those outspoken big mamas that watch his productions, that generates tens of millions of dollars, that generates ratings on TV, I beg to differ.  There's a point somewhere in there between Dave Chappelle's "I think people are laughing at me, not with me" perspective and addressing a niche that I can't quite articulate.

 

Also, I suspect that even if Tyler wanted to expand his writing to a wider audience, because he came into the game with said niche, he's not going to get much support from the Hollywood machine to do it.

 

Critiquing his work isn't necessarily being a hater, and it irks the hell out of me when that's used as sort of a silencing technique.  If those who disliked him were actively trying to censor his work or sabotage his productions, okay.  But talking about what he produces is fair game to me.  Unfortunately, I suspect him being black (a black man, even) is used to shield him in a way that would never be if he wasn't.  That's a whole other talk show, though.  And ultimately, as I said in an earlier post, at the present, he's the only major producer, and there's not a level of variety that there was 15, 20, 25 years ago. Plus, with the advent of social media, there are more platforms for like-minded folks to come together, discuss, and even be the verbal minority with critiques.
 

Admittedly this is a large part of the themes in his films as this is revisted over and over again in various iterations, but if you remove the judgemental piece of it, again, I think he has some interesting ideas. And he is insanely fortunate in the casts he gets because they do elevate his material.  Of course, this is mostly because there are so many talented black actors who aren't getting enough work elsewhere.  If anything, it is even more a testament to how good some of them are because they make Tyler Perry's work look not terrible.

 
Hee! Well, you got me there.  Most of them do manage to rise above the material.

 

ETA:

 

it is clear to me that he does not like women like me.  Therefore, play on, playa, but you can kiss my ass whle you do it.

 

Yep, pretty much.

Edited September 4, 2014 by ribboninthesky1

[After7Only]

The thing about Tyler Perry is that he his movies have the bones of really good, interesting storytelling. But when he gets to the meat of it, it gets overseasoned and overcooked. He goes overboard with caricatures and stereotypes. If he dialed it back and got some nuance, his stuff could be really interesting. For instance, The Family That Preys had some real potential to be interesting. Also it had Kathy Bates and Alfre Woodard! Come on, how can you waste those two? They completly rose above the material. If he had only managed to edit himself, the movie could have been great. But in the end the story felt simple and mired in amateurish plotting and overwrought characters. And Eeeevil, bad womens!

 

I remember seeing The Family the Preys and thinking, 'Wow Tyler's finally started to up his game with his writing', then his next Madea movie came out, and it was back to the same poor storytelling.  I later read somewhere that Alfre Woodard and Kathy Bates demanded major re-writes to the script before they would sign on, and a ghostwriter was hired to fix the script.  Which explains why the movie felt 'different' than other Tyler Perry productions.

 

I totally get that Tyler is writing for a his target demographic (and I am not in that demographic).  But I still feel he can up his writing and storytelling game and still apeal to that demographic, plus a few others.  He needs to realize that others outside of his target audience also watch his products and are influenced by the stereotypes he puts out there. 

 

Would love to see him use his influence to put other storytellers, in the spotlight who are different than him that could show a different segment of Black life and culture to world.  But all he seems to put out are things that he controls and writes. 

[BoogieBurns]

I totally get that Tyler is writing for a his target demographic (and I am not in that demographic).  But I still feel he can up his writing and storytelling game and still apeal to that demographic, plus a few others.

 

His audience isn't going anywhere. It is time for him to write some quality. I completely agree. My parents will watch anything that has his name attached, even if it was (gasp!) well-written! It doesn't have to compromise his overall plan; by that I mean, it doesn't have to be an all-white cast who hate going to church or whatever. Why Did I Get Married was a decent movie until Tyler Perry's face got involved. He should embrace the art of collaborating, and he should stay behind the camera.

 

Tyler Perry isn't the voice of all the people. He isn't Oprah! (hehe) 

[ribboninthesky1]

I remember seeing The Family the Preys and thinking, 'Wow Tyler's finally started to up his game with his writing', then his next Madea movie came out, and it was back to the same poor storytelling.  I later read somewhere that Alfre Woodard and Kathy Bates demanded major re-writes to the script before they would sign on, and a ghostwriter was hired to fix the script.  Which explains why the movie felt 'different' than other Tyler Perry productions.

 

Word? I didn't know about this, and it certainly puts that movie into perspective. I still thought it was kind of crappy, solid actors notwithstanding. Also, thinking on it further, it would seem that several of the higher profile actresses are "one and done" with his films.  For example, I don't think Taraji Henson or Alfre or Angela Bassett or Sanaa Lathan sign up for any other production, including TV.  It may not mean anything, but these actresses aren't exactly getting meaty roles. Yet, they're still not up for a long-term partnership with a major producer...unless he's not asking them back.

 

Would love to see him use his influence to put other storytellers, in the spotlight who are different than him that could show a different segment of Black life and culture to world.  But all he seems to put out are things that he controls and writes.

 

I don't know about TV, but I thought there was a film or two that he produced, but didn't write or direct.  I didn't see the films, but based on the trailers, I remember thinking they seemed to be in his niche.  Which meant that I wouldn't watch them. It would be nice if he collaborated with someone like Issa Rae or Larry Wilmore (who I believe are partnered for a HBO deal), but I can't see that happening. 

[DearEvette]

I remember seeing The Family the Preys and thinking, 'Wow Tyler's finally started to up his game with his writing', then his next Madea movie came out, and it was back to the same poor storytelling.  I later read somewhere that Alfre Woodard and Kathy Bates demanded major re-writes to the script before they would sign on, and a ghostwriter was hired to fix the script.  Which explains why the movie felt 'different' than other Tyler Perry productions.

 

Ha! That explains it then.  Becuase I thought the exact same thing, that he was getting some maturity.  It is the last movie of his I ever saw.  It is too bad that he is such a control freak that doesn't just hire people.  He's in a position where he could pay it forward a bit and give opportunities to talented black screenwriters who actually could turn his vision into something stronger.

 

His audience isn't going anywhere. It is time for him to write some quality.... Why Did I Get Married was a decent movie until Tyler Perry's face got involved. He should embrace the art of collaborating, and he should stay behind the camera.

 

Tyler Perry isn't the voice of all the people. He isn't Oprah! (hehe) 

 

i agree.  I understand the need to cater to the audience when he first started out because 1) it was all he knew and 2) those were his fans.  Makes sense.  But as time goes on he has to correlate his shrinking box office with the fact that 1) that original audience isn't growing 2) if wants to continue to get the distribution to open wide in theaters, he needs to not just account for the audience he has, he needs to appeal a bit wider so his audience can grow.

 

It is all well and good to be proud about your vision and the fact that you don't need Hollywood money to finance your projects, but they still do control distriubtuion.  And they will not be wanting to reserve precious space in multi-plexes for a movie that isn't going to put asses in the seats.   I think one of the reasons he's still able to get even the audiences he does is because black folks are so thirsty for representation.  But even so, after awhile that water starts to taste bitter. 

 

Even moreso for black women.  I am sorry but we have enough issues with other people writing problematic narratives of our identites and politicizing everything about us (our hair, our bodies, our skin tone, our sexuality) without having those same problematic narratives constantly reinforced and granted some small legitimacy by a prolific black filmmaker.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Even moreso for black women.  I am sorry but we have enough issues with other people writing problematic narratives of our identites and politicizing everything about us (our hair, our bodies, our skin tone, our sexuality) without having those same problematic narratives constantly reinforced and granted some small legitimacy by a prolific black filmmaker.

I'm a little hesitant to insert myself into this discussion, but I've been reading the thoughtful, well-written posts here, so I'll gingerly dip a toe in.

 

I'll open by saying that I don't really care for Tyler Perry because I think he's kind of a crap filmmaker, and like Judd Apatow he has a niche he's trying to appeal to and doesn't stray far from that. My issues with Apatow are another peeve for another time. Regardless, I think they both could do good work if they tried harder and /or did something different.

 

But isn't it just as politicizing to specifically mention 'light-skinned brothas' being paired with the women in Perry's films, as if they aren't black enough or are somehow inferior to a man with a darker complexion? I can see how the 'being a savior' thing can be annoying, but would that somehow be more palatable if the guy in question were darker? I swear I'm not trying to be snarky, it's a real question.

[ribboninthesky1]

Even moreso for black women.  I am sorry but we have enough issues with other people writing problematic narratives of our identites and politicizing everything about us (our hair, our bodies, our skin tone, our sexuality) without having those same problematic narratives constantly reinforced and granted some small legitimacy by a prolific black filmmaker.

 

Right? if he wasn't the only major producer in the mix for the past 10 years or so, I could just handwave it, as there would be counterpoints available.  But nope, he stands alone, for now.  I'm not even sure I want *him* to broaden his audience, as I truly believe it's not in him.  I'd just like for other black producers to get the financial backing to bring their work to the mainstream. If producers like Ava DuVernay or Sanaa Hamri or Issa Rae or Dee Rees could get the same support, that would be awesome.  

 

But isn't it just as politicizing to specifically mention 'light-skinned brothas' being paired with the women in Perry's films, as if they aren't black enough or are somehow inferior to a man with a darker complexion? I can see how the 'being a savior' thing can be annoying, but would that somehow be more palatable if the guy in question were darker? I swear I'm not trying to be snarky, it's a real question.

 

I don't interpret it as them not being black enough.  But it's a narrative trend that Tyler has in his films, and it's odd.  I don't think calling it out is politicizing - he does that by his narrative, IMO. If anything, Perry seem to imply that it's the "lighter-skinned brothas" who are more manly and can step up as a romantic partner. 

Edited September 7, 2014 by ribboninthesky1

[SistaLadybug]

But isn't it just as politicizing to specifically mention 'light-skinned brothas' being paired with the women in Perry's films, as if they aren't black enough or are somehow inferior to a man with a darker complexion? I can see how the 'being a savior' thing can be annoying, but would that somehow be more palatable if the guy in question were darker? I swear I'm not trying to be snarky, it's a real question.

Since I'm a person who mentioned "light-skinned brothas", allow me to address this.  You misunderstood my point.  Being not dark-skinned myself, I obviously don't think of lighter-skinned Black folks being less than Black or inferior to darker-skinned people.  What I'm trying to point out is that I think Perry himself has colorism issues in that when he has a woman being "saved from herself", quite often it's by someone lighter.  It's as if he thinks of a light-skinned man as the ultimate savior.  So no, I'm not saying that *I* think of light-skinned man as a savior, I'm saying I think he does.

[Luckylyn]

The Boondocks did an awesome

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Since I'm a person who mentioned "light-skinned brothas", allow me to address this.  You misunderstood my point.  Being not dark-skinned myself, I obviously don't think of lighter-skinned Black folks being less than Black or inferior to darker-skinned people.  What I'm trying to point out is that I think Perry himself has colorism issues in that when he has a woman being "saved from herself", quite often it's by someone lighter.  It's as if he thinks of a light-skinned man as the ultimate savior.  So no, I'm not saying that *I* think of light-skinned man as a savior, I'm saying I think he does.

SistaLadybug, I didn't intend to imply that you thought of light-skinned men as saviors, so I apologize if I created confusion. I haven't really watched any of Perry's films because as I said upthread I don't care for him and life is too short to watch movies I don't like. So it is entirely possible that he thinks a light-skinned man is a better romantic partner than a dark-skinned one, and maybe I'm reading you wrong somehow, but when you mentioned light-skinned brothas I was wondering what might be wrong with a light-skinned brotha. I'm trying to say this correctly because I really want to be edified on the subject, or at least sensitive to it.

[SistaLadybug]

SistaLadybug, I didn't intend to imply that you thought of light-skinned men as saviors, so I apologize if I created confusion. I haven't really watched any of Perry's films because as I said upthread I don't care for him and life is too short to watch movies I don't like. So it is entirely possible that he thinks a light-skinned man is a better romantic partner than a dark-skinned one, and maybe I'm reading you wrong somehow, but when you mentioned light-skinned brothas I was wondering what might be wrong with a light-skinned brotha. I'm trying to say this correctly because I really want to be edified on the subject, or at least sensitive to it.

There's nothing at all wrong with them, nor is there anything wrong with their darker-skinned counterparts which is why folks point out that Perry tends to use lighter-skinned men as his romantic leads/saviors.  Women don't need to be saved from themselves at all but if they're going to be, a dark-skinned man is just as likely to swoop in as a light-skinned one.

 

Anyway, the point is that Tyler Perry shows himself problematic in many ways - most glaring among them (to me) - are his issues with women, gay men and colorism.

[BoogieBurns]

Anyway, the point is that Tyler Perry shows himself problematic in many ways - most glaring among them (to me) - are his issues with women, gay men and colorism.

 

Methinks the man doth protest too much. 

 

Who are the other big producers/directors of color that have had successful films/ TV shows? Lee Daniels likes his movies too heavy for my taste (see: Precious), but he does seem to have a wider range than Mr. Madea. Some of the other names are mentioned above, but none of them are super familiar to me. 

Edited September 8, 2014 by BoogieBurns

[galax-arena]

I was wondering what might be wrong with a light-skinned brotha.

I think it’s less about the individual person than what Hollywood (or Tyler Perry in this case) is saying by *only* showing that particular type. I’m not black and am not an expert on colorism as it affects the black community, but I know that it’s an issue where light skin is prized over dark skin. It’s not just men, but women as well; wasn’t part of the controversy re: Zoe Saldana playing Nina Simone was that Zoe’s skin was too light? It’s not Zoe Saldana’s fault, of course; she can’t help her skin color. But in those situations you can’t help but think that it would have been a great opportunity for a darker skinned actress who wouldn’t otherwise get noticed in the already limited pool for black actresses. And it felt particularly annoying in this case (IMO) because it’s not like Zoe was an unknown who could have used the exposure.

 

I think it’s similar to when people criticize how white a cast is, they’re not saying that there’s anything wrong with being white, just that there’s something messed up about a Hollywood that thinks that white people are the only kinds of people worth portraying.

Edited September 8, 2014 by galax-arena

[ethalfrida]

 One of the things that bothers me about Madea is the pronounciation. It is short for "mother dear" which is a southern term of endearment given to mothers and grandmothers. The correct way to say it is "muh-dear". I don't know why Tyler did not correct this right off. He wouldn't have named his character that if he was't aware of it.

[Wax Lion]

 

Lee Daniels likes his movies too heavy for my taste (see: Precious)

 

FWIW, his upcoming Fox drama "Empire" has been called his attempt at making a black "Dynasty" so it shouldn't be too heavy.

[CoderLady]

 One of the things that bothers me about Madea is the pronounciation. It is short for "mother dear" which is a southern term of endearment given to mothers and grandmothers. The correct way to say it is "muh-dear". I don't know why Tyler did not correct this right off. He wouldn't have named his character that if he was't aware of it.

 

Thank you! In my family and my neighborhood that's how it was pronounced. I think Perry went with what would sound right to whites, and I'm trying to be open-minded about why that would matter more than authenticity.

[DearEvette]

FWIW, his upcoming Fox drama "Empire" has been called his attempt at making a black "Dynasty" so it shouldn't be too heavy.

 

Oh man, I hope Empire doesn't suck.  Pleasepleasepleaseplease be good.  I am loving Taraji P. Henson's instagram stills of her character Cookie. 

[topanga]

 

I am loving Taraji P. Henson's instagram stills of her character Cookie.

Maybe I should post this in the thread "Unpopular TV Opinions," but I do not like Taraji P. Henson. Mind you, I'm always happy to hear about her working on a project because there are so few roles for women of color. But something about the actress herself bugs me. In interviews, she loves to talk about how fly she is, how she doesn't need advice about love, and how Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie go on and on about how beautiful she is. Being so braggadocios makes her seem very insecure and very annoying.

[zillabreeze]

Well add this group to the list of groups Tyler Perry doesn't care for: Hispanics.  I wasted 2 hours of my life last night watching "If Loving You is Wrong".  I have mountains to snark about when someone starts a thread, but----

He sends the only female Hispanic character to a kids softball game wearing pants two sizes too tight and huge stripper shoes.  Then he makes one Hispanic man a crazy, hot head; grabbing and slamming the woman around while everyone cowers.  The other Hispanic male is a tatted up (implied) drug dealer driving around half laying in the backseat.

 

His disdain for the characters was almost palpable.

Edited September 10, 2014 by zillabreeze

[Raja]

Well add this group to the list of groups Tyler Perry doesn't care for: Hispanics.  I wasted 2 hours of my life last night watching "If Loving You is Wrong".  I have mountains to snark about when someone starts a thread, but----

He sends the only female Hispanic character to a kids softball game wearing pants two sizes too tight and huge stripper shoes.  Then he makes one Hispanic man a crazy, hot head; grabbing and slamming the woman around while everyone cowers.  The other Hispanic male is a tatted up (implied) drug dealer driving around half laying in the backseat.

 

His disdain for the characters was almost palpable.

I owned one Perry movie and a  seen a few taped plays and Adam Rodriguez played the hero opposite Taraji P. Henson in I Can Do Bad All By Myself. He runs middle of the pack so to speak but I do wonder if folks would consider the villain Brian J. White a light or dark skin toned brother? In the latter movie the Black female lead is often romantically linked to a non Black man. I think it is because the root of his work is in the gospel play circuit

[After7Only]

I owned one Perry movie and a  seen a few taped plays and Adam Rodriguez played the hero opposite Taraji P. Henson in I Can Do Bad All By Myself. He runs middle of the pack so to speak but I do wonder if folks would consider the villain Brian J. White a light or dark skin toned brother? In the latter movie the Black female lead is often romantically linked to a non Black man. I think it is because the root of his work is in the gospel play circuit

 

Brian J. White wouldn't be considered dark skinned.  But unfortuantely the movie still fell into the trap of Black woman victimized by the darker skinned man and saved by the love of the lighter skinned man (Adam Rodriguez).  Not all of his movies follow this route, but too many of them do, to not think it's he has some latent issues on colorism. 

[ribboninthesky1]

Maybe I should post this in the thread "Unpopular TV Opinions," but I do not like Taraji P. Henson. Mind you, I'm always happy to hear about her working on a project because there are so few roles for women of color. But something about the actress herself bugs me. In interviews, she loves to talk about how fly she is, how she doesn't need advice about love, and how Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie go on and on about how beautiful she is. Being so braggadocios makes her seem very insecure and very annoying.

 

I see your point.  I like her, and can appreciate her self-confidence, to a degree.  I'll always believe she was shafted by the Person of Interest executives.  But when I read quotes like, "I'm treated like I'm on the D list," she's really doing herself no favors. Black women have rarely, if ever, had it easy in Hollywood.  She's hardly the only one hustling for consistent, quality work. I wonder why she doesn't just have her own production company, as she's been in the business long enough to have developed some relationships.  

 

I wish her the best with Empire, but I can't see myself watching the show. 

[Ankai]

Rami Malek has been cast as the lead in a rather odd-sounding show. I loved him in The Pacific, though I suspect that his character was meant to be White. I think that his other prominent characters were supposed to be Arab or half-Arab. I am not sure about this new show.

[Neurochick]

I like Taraji and I get why she feels she's treated like she's on the D list.  I mean Person Of Interest fucked her over for the Mary Sue Shaw character.  I wonder if a white Oscar nominee would have been treated the same way.  

 

As for Tyler Perry, I think most of his shows and movies are crap; but I'm not his audience.  What I think he's doing is the same thing Harlequin Romance/Barbara Cartland novels used to do and to an extent Lifetime movies do, he sells romantic fantasy and a fantasy that a lot of women share.  It might not be my fantasy but like I said, his stuff isn't for me.

[ribboninthesky1]

Rami Malek has been cast as the lead in a rather odd-sounding show. I loved him in The Pacific, though I suspect that his character was meant to be White. I think that his other prominent characters were supposed to be Arab or half-Arab. I am not sure about this new show.

 

I'm not familiar with him, but that show does sound odd.  I'm left wondering what the hell a vigilante hacker is.  But then, I've found attempts to dramatize any of the computer/information science fields never seem to work out well.  It rarely seems to translate well on screen.

[xaxat]

New York Times profile of Viola Davis. It covers race, age and working with Shonda Rimes. 

 

I have such a crush on that woman.

[galax-arena]

Remember when Charlize told Viola that she was "hot as shit"? So much facepalming.

 

[ribboninthesky1]

Yes, I HATED the way Theron and Clooney directed the conversation away from what Viola was saying.  Haven't been able to tolerate either one ever since.

[xaxat]

Bryan Fuller Has No Plans to Whitewash American Gods’ Shadow for TV.

 

 

In our conversations about who our ideals are for specific roles, Shadow is described as… is he a gypsy? Is he Hispanic? Is he black? Or is he all of those things in one? So we know that he is not white! I think if we cast a white man to play Shadow we would be the biggest assholes on television.

[Neurochick]

The New York Times, Shonda Rhimes & How to Get Away With Being Racist

Edited September 22, 2014 by Neurochick

[topanga]

The original NYT article is offensive, say the least, and I liked this response to it. Black women can't seem to get away from the "Angry Black Woman" trope, even if writers deliberately make a black female character multi-dimensional, vulnerable, and complex. For some people, she remains the Angry Black Woman because that's what they see when they look at her. Us.

[2KllMckngBrd]

Remember when Charlize told Viola that she was "hot as shit"? So much facepalming.

 

Holy shit. Holy mutha fuckin shit (I will curse here and there...but this requires more than I am used to putting in written form). What-the-fuck. I have never seen that before and I am pissed. Watching that felt like the same gut punch as when Tom Cruise went off the rails and showed us who he really is. I can't un-see it, but I wish to hell I could. Fuck George Clooney. Fuck Charlize Theron. How dare either one of them diminish the points Viola Davis was attempting to make. They completely hijacked the conversation, and told her that her point of view isn't valid b/c it's not their experience. Fuck them. By behaving as though their experiences are the only that should matter, they just reinforced the very points Viola Davis was trying to make.

 

Thank you for posting this, but I will never be able to look at them and not remember the very dismissive way they carried on in this clip. Charlize Theron knows god damn good and well that we still live in a world where white women who look like her are the standard of beauty. It doesn't mean that Viola isn't beautiful and talented. It simply means that she doesn't fit the "standard. For her and Clooney to spin that into it's the Hollywood establishments" fault is beyond ridiculous.

 

Viola Davis is 1 classy broad. B/c I would have been tempted to fuck them both up.

[galax-arena]

George Clooney shouldn't be surprising at least. When he won an Academy Award several years before that, this was his acceptance speech (in response to the host claiming that Hollywood was out of touch):

I would say that, you know, we are a little bit out of touch in Hollywood every once in a while. I think it's probably a good thing. We're the ones who talk about AIDS when it was just being whispered, and we talked about civil rights when it wasn't really popular. And we, you know, we bring up subjects. This Academy, this group of people gave Hattie McDaniel an Oscar in 1939 when blacks were still sitting in the backs of theaters. I'm proud to be a part of this Academy, proud to be part of this community, and proud to be out of touch.

White privilege in action, ladies and gentlemen. 

[arc]

Vulture: An In-Depth Cultural Analysis of Asian Male TV Characters Getting Some Action The list is both pretty thorough and not that long a read! =P  Seriously though, the analysis makes it more than just a list.

[Actionmage]

The thing about Clooney is that he's sitting there explaining about the gross conversations, but he's a producer! He adds his name to a project and it's like a hacker has turned all the street lights green. That felt very disingenuous, to me.    

 

I peeked at his producer and writer credits on IMDb. Not many of his projects are non-white centric. (For this conversation, I am talking about his fictional work.) He doesn't have to make every project about only about non-white folks.  A number of his projects seem to have a "throwback"/nostalgia-type of feel:The Good German, Good Night and Good Luck, Leatherheads, O Brother..., Far From Heaven, Argo, Fail Safe, and Rock Star ( to name a lot). Not that they aren't good films, but to me, it doesn't seem that Mr. Clooney is interested in many stories outside of something with a white male lead.

 

If he and a couple of higher-profile producers just started backing even just one racially diverse (with no explanations or excuses, see: Alien)/non-white male centered film per each company's slate, there should be less reluctance, correct?

[ribboninthesky1]

The thing about Clooney is that he's sitting there explaining about the gross conversations, but he's a producer! He adds his name to a project and it's like a hacker has turned all the street lights green. That felt very disingenuous, to me.   

 

Yep, and it's not like some of his fellow white male actors haven't produced films that featured black actresses. When the reporter asked Viola the question, George even acknowledged, by answering a question that wasn't even directed at him, that there aren't that many roles! Look, I get that whites in Hollywood primarily write for and cast their own, it's just the world we live in.  But then kindly shut the entire fuck up when someone asks a black actress about her struggle for roles in Hollywood.  This is why "I can't be bigoted because I have black friends" spiel is usually bullshit, which I mention because George and Viola are supposedly friends (I vaguely remember reading that Viola and her husband honeymooned at Clooney's villa).

 

Vulture: An In-Depth Cultural Analysis of Asian Male TV Characters Getting Some Action The list is both pretty thorough and not that long a read! =P  Seriously though, the analysis makes it more than just a list.

 

That was a good read.

[Ohwell]

The issue I had with the Viola/Clooney video is that I thought the host should have asked Viola the question in a one-on-one interview so that she could answer in depth, how she wanted to.  It looks to me as if the other actors sitting around the table were uncomfortable and/or just didn't want to get into a discussion about black actors in Hollywood, at least not at that time.   

[Raja]

I saw more of a gender and ageism than racial issue when Charlize Theron bumped in when Viola Davis was saying as a 46 year old Black woman not even Hallie Berry still gets "the roles". Nearing 40 herself Theron seemed to be in denial that her movie roles are also drying up while Clooney is still in the running for magazine's sexist man alive awards. however TV seems to have different ethic then the big screen as many leading ladies are the 40, 50 something year old still fabulous types

[topanga]



 

The roles Tyler Perry has made a point to create for black actors (as leads) are still somehow rare in 2014.   That's what's sad, he's virtually alone in what he's trying to accomplish.  Is he syrupy and heavy handed as hell? Yup.   But again, I beseech you not to be too mad at him, he's not targeting us.   He says this is no different than the dudes who make the same version of a stupid ass frat boy or stoner kid movie that hollywood supports year after year but nobody questions those directors about the quality and delivery of their message.

I agree with all your points, ZaldamoWilder.  I am actually not mad at Tyler.  (I take issue with his (and Oprah's) representation of those of us who aren't fans as "haters" or folks who don't understand.)  I don't knock his hustle.  I see his game and I respect it but I'm not playing it with him.

 

Well said. But the reality is that most black people--and some non-black people--who don't like Tyler Perry's work or take issue with the way he represents women, they absolutely hate him and wish he would curl into a ball and die. And I'm only exaggerating a little. Some of the posts I've read on TWOP or previouslyTV are indeed along that same vein.

 

I personally am not a Tyler Perry fan. I supported him enthusiastically when his movies first hit the scene, but I got tired of watching the same stories, the same characters, and the same themes in his movies and TV shows. And yes, he does seem to have a problem with ambitious black women. So guess what? I stopped watching them. I don't write essays or give interviews stating that he's setting the black race back 100 years, as some people claim.

[johntfs]

 

Even if 3 out of 4 black women are overweight, that doesn't mean that the majority of black women are as fat as Da'Vine Joy Randolph. As was mentioned earlier, plenty of black women don't have names like Charmonique. The fact that an individual actress who is both fat and named Da'Vine exists doesn't inherently make this character less problematic, less stereotypical, or less off-putting. Surely, there were other, less trite options.

 

Work as the heavy black secretary is still work.  Weight-loss programs cost money, which is hard to get if you're not working.  It seems like this discussion is moving to replace visual/implied discrimination ("Why do we have yet another stereotypical heavy black secretary?") with actual discrimination ("She should be fired and replaced with a thinner actress, perhaps yet another white model-actress with a name like Cindy or Suzie or Bambi...")

 

Moved here from "Selfie"

[topanga]

 

Work as the heavy black secretary is still work.  Weight-loss programs cost money, which is hard to get if you're not working.  It seems like this discussion is moving to replace visual/implied discrimination ("Why do we have yet another stereotypical heavy black secretary?") with actual discrimination ("She should be fired and replaced with a thinner actress, perhaps yet another white model-actress with a name like Cindy or Suzie or Bambi...")

Right on, johntfs. No one is saying that overweight actresses shouldn't work. And I think it's great that Selfie is striving for diversity by casting a woman of color in a recurring role. If she happens to be overweight, well, okay. But why does her name have to be Charmonique? To me, that's what makes the entire character a stereotype. Why can't a black secretary who just happens to be overweight be named Cindy or Suzie? The overall joke would still be relevant--that Eliza doesn't bother to speak to her or learn her name.

 

--BTW, there's a constant stream of students doing internships in the medical clinic where I work, and the young black females tend to have 'creative' names. And it does make their names harder for me to remember, even as a black woman. I don't know if that makes me racially insensitive, but that's my reality.

[galax-arena]

The author of a book on Nickelodeon's Golden Age thinks that women and POC are ruining television.

 

Excerpts:

I think it’s worse when they shove it in there. Sanjay and Craig is a really good example, which funnily enough is written in part by Will McRobb and Chris Viscardi from Pete & Pete. That show is awkward because there’s actually no reason for that character to be Indian — except for the fact that [Nickelodeon President] Cyma Zarghami and the women who run Nickelodeon now are very obsessed with diversity. Which is fine — do what you’re gotta do, and Dora [the Explorer] was certainly something of a success, but there’s no reason for [sanjay] to be Indian at all. No one working on that show is Indian. They’re all white. It’s all the white people from Bob’s Burgers and Will and Chris.

 

To just shove it in there because, “Uh-oh, we need diversity,” is silly and a little disgusting. It needs to be the best people working on the best shows. They happen to be white, that’s a shame. They happen to be all guys, that’s a shame. No one says this about sports — they do sometimes, the owners — but sorry, that most basketball, football players happen to be black. That’s just the way that it is.

 

But this provides something to relate to; if an Indian kid is watching and sees himself on screen, that’s great.

 

That’s true, that’s fine, but why can’t he relate to a white guy too?

Are you kidding me? Indian kids and other POC relate to white people ALL THE TIME. If we want to consume American media, we have little choice in the matter. It's white people who usually have more issues with relating to people who don't share their skin color, because they've never had to.

 

If Sanjay and Craig is a good show, why would it bother you that they made the main character Indian-American?

 

I think that it does the culture a disservice. If I were Indian or Jewish, for example, and watched something where the characters are Jewish or supposed to be, and if it’s not specific to that, then I start to wonder, “Why are they doing this?” It becomes blackface.

THAT'S NOT WHAT BLACKFACE MEANS, YOU FUCKING DIPSHIT.

 

You’re saying, “If it doesn’t matter, then why not let them be Indian?” I’m saying, “If it doesn’t matter, why make them Indian?”

Oh, for the love of....

 

Hilariously, his Nick Nostalgia event this week has been cancelled. The spec is that he did it out of a prime sense of butthurt from all the flak he's been getting from this interview. As someone who had purchased tickets - I went to the last event too, and even then Klickstein struck me as being a bit up his own ass, but you know, nowhere near this level of douchiness - I'm rolling my eyes.

 

Think this might need to be cross-posted to the Gender thread for some of the dismissive shit he says about Clarissa and how hard it is to be a man in the media industry today.

[Bella]

Wow. Quoting from the douchenozzle:

 

here’s no reason for [sanjay] to be Indian at all.

 

There's also no reason for him to be white. In fact, there's no reason for most characters to be white. How often does it matter that a character is white? What does whiteness give to a character that is absolutely essential?

 

I am white, and I can't think of a reason most of the time. Maybe if it's a historical piece and you've got someone who attended Harvard in 1870 or fought in the French Revolution, yeah. But otherwise, there's usually not much of a reason beyond the limitations of the minds of TPTB.

[Joe]

Oh dear. Matthew Klickstein, author of An Oral History of Nickelodeon, says some rather unfortunate things about race. According to another site, he was due to appear at a con. Sensibly, they pulled him, though the trainwreck factor could have been entertaining.

 

Here are some highlights.

[ribboninthesky1]

That's the same article galax-arena referenced two posts above...

[Joe]

Damn, I wasn't paying attention.

[Trini]

Gahahayyyyyhhhh....!!!

 

To just shove it in there because, “Uh-oh, we need diversity,” is silly and a little disgusting. It needs to be the best people working on the best shows. They happen to be white, that’s a shame. They happen to be all guys, that’s a shame. No one says this about sports — they do sometimes, the owners — but sorry, that most basketball, football players happen to be black. That’s just the way that it is.

Wow. What is wrong with him? (rhetorical--where to start??)

With that reasoning, I guess white guys make the best presidents and black guys make the best criminals 'cause NUMBERS.

 

Is he really complaining that's there's not enough white people around? He really doesn't know that others factors play into these issues/results?? Gaaaah

[Trini]

 

Vulture: An In-Depth Cultural Analysis of Asian Male TV Characters Getting Some Action

You don't know how happy I was that John Cho/Gabby Union was the first thing they talked about! (That show was crap, but I still 'ship them.) Didn't know about Darren Criss being "stealth Asian".