S07.E08: The Cavi-Art Of War

[Leroux]

I loved the exchange between Carole and Bethenny. 

 

Completely uncomfortable and 100% real. That is exactly how I would have reacted. Carole was supportive without being condescending or offering her unsolicited advice about things she cannot possibly relate to, but still managed to defuse the situation with kindness. This is the Carole I want to see. 

 

I am annoyed that Carole is going with this ditzy, cougarish persona that she is portraying this season. I always thought that she was smart, educated, intelligent, all things I admire in a lady, this year she has gone back two steps but I still have hopes for her. 

 

Heather IMO is not being edited to be a bossy busy buddy, she has always been like that, it got overlooked because she was against hated Aviva so it might seem more evident this season but it is nothing new or edited to look that way. 

[WireWrap]

I think that is what's happening. Because the season has filmed, the editing team can go back and craft this story that let's Bethenny off the hook since it's apparent during filming that she doesn't like Heather. I'm currently re-watching last night's ep as I get ready, and right after LuAnn's TH where she says that Carole has no kitchen, we come back to Heather and Bethenny mid-conversation.

 

Heather: So what is the visitation. So six days you don't have her?

Bethenny: No no no.

Heather: Oh, 'cause I thought that you said is, like, 'Six days I don't get to see her.' I'm like, that's not fair. You gotta fix that.

Bethenny's TH: I find it very personal for someone to ask you about your custody situation.

 

Heather repeats back to Bethenny what Bethenny said. Yet, that'll get glossed over as though, out of the blue, Heather initiated conversation about Bethenny's custody. Bethenny knows how to talk about herself apropos of nothing. I'm going to believe that she came into this scene announcing to everyone in her fast-talking and anxious way that she wasn't going to stay for long--"I can't stay. I can't stay. I'm leaving at 3:30. I can't stay long. I have to pick up my kid at 3:30. I don't get to see her, so this time is precious."--and Heather picked up on it. It seems, too, that Heather misunderstood whatever the six days that Bethenny mentioned (because where would Heather get six days in that conversation if not from Bethenny's mouth?) given that we come into the scene with Heather asking about six days.

 

This season is so painful to watch. I liked Bethenny so much in all her seasons on RHONY. I watched her spin-offs (minus the last season of the last spin-off). I'm still wary about Jason, but I think that she's being a right bitch to Heather under the guise of this divorce, which I gather is stressful. Yet, she manages to turn it off for the other women so she's capable. She simply doesn't want to when it comes to Heather.

IMO, Bethenny is nasty to Heather and Kristen because they are married. They are succeeding at something she failed miserably at. JMO

 

I do.  Sonja was wearing an evening gown and Heather was aware of the price point.  Last time I checked, KMart didn't sell formalwear. Heather's a stealth bitch.  Or rather, she thinks she's stealth.

How would Heather know Sonja's price point for her clothing line? At this point, Sonja has not shared any info about that with Heather.

 

Not for nothing but John always looks like that to me even when just reading a menu in a restaurant. Similar to some people who just have resting bitchface, I think John just has resting perv face. 

 

 

Ramona is just an asshole. I don't really care what led up to what and who escalated what. What pisses me off and makes me strongly dislike Ramona is that old runtelldat shit she pulled where she herself was talking much shit about John but than goes to Dorinda and acts like she was just an innocent bystander whose ears were offended by the things Luann spewed about her so-called dear friends man. That to me is one of the worst violations ever! That is why I can't with Ramona's nasty petty ass and why I can never find fault with Luann going in on her ass after all the nasty shit Ramona has said and done to her re: her marriage and kids. Glad that Dorinda saw right thru her.

 

Ramona was acting strange during that whole caviar dinner. Frankly, I do think she was feeling some kind of way about something but I of course don't know what. I think she was spoiling for a scene. She seemed inebriated and her going over to cuddle and kiss on Dorinda? Please.

The whole bringing food to Mario thing earlier in the episode was weird. Did you see Ramona's face and eyes during that sequence with B and Dorinda? Those were her huge, crazy runway eyes.

 

 

The title of Bethanny's talk show thread over at the now defunct TWOP was "Shut up guests I'm talking." Pretty much says it all doesn't it. 

 

CB2 is for broke bitches like me. CB2 is the little cheaper sister company of Crate and Barrel, which I would think is also too pedestrian for B but would make more sense.

 

 

This is so sad to me. Carole and Heather may not be my favorites but they do seem to have found some type of real friendship outside the show. Thing is if B decided not to come back next year, Carole will likely rarely if ever see her again. B is an opportunistic work friend.

 

Dorinda's house in the Berkshires looks like nothing I expected. It's amazing. Previews make it like a murder mystery house and all the guests look like Clue characters, especially the Countess. Git it!

 

I was NOT enamored or enthralled with Carole's run for coop board but at least she was acting like a grown up. I don't get why she would need to engage such heavy hitters for such a thing. Real political campaign managers?? Really. I hope those handmade middle school looking posting that even Reese Witherspoon's character in Election would be embarrassed by were just for that initial 'think tank' and not used during the actual campaign. 

IMO, Dorinda has replaced Sonja in the friend tug of war battle between Ramona and LuAnn. These 2 had fought about who was the better friend for Sonja for years now but Sonja is no longer close to LuAnn and she is irritating Ramona to no end, so they are doing it over Dorinda.

[crgirl412]

I already have forgotten the names of the two guys who are "executives" with Sonja Morgan's Vanderlay Industries, but I remember looking at their LinkedIn profiles, and both contained such buzzy phrases as "international luxury lifestyle."

 

These women are so shallow that if John looked like a Jacques, or Mario, they wouldn't care about him dating Dorinda. (And I like Dorinda, but this isn't exactly a case of a very mismatched Paulina Porizkova dating Ric Ocasek, if you get my drift.) I don't remember anyone saying a word about a much-younger man going after a freshly-divorced Countess. It's the Upper East Side, so it's a sin to be anything less than svelte and to show perspiration.

 

And I think Ramona's way of starting a sentence with "in all sincerity" needs to be a drinking game.

All of your points were spot on! 

 

-Sonja's brand is literally just as real as George's Vandelay Industries!

 

- If John "looked" better they would all hush.  Look where Mario's "good looks" got Ramona.

 

- Ramona's "in all sincerity" should be a drinking game on WWHL!  All the women should take cover when she starts a sentence with it since she's gunning for someone!! 

Edited May 27, 2015 by crgirl412

[charmed1]

None of the NY housewives really bother me that much. I neither love nor hate them and each one has amused me at some point. Other than Bethenny who I find really annoying, but I don't hate her. I enjoy them most when they're drunk and dancing on tables with pirates.

I'd probably most likely hang out with Heather and take fashion tips from Kristen. And boy if Bethenny hates Heather calling her Beth, she'd really hate me. Most of my friends have 3 syllable names that I shorten to one. Or I call them by old lady names we've all assigned to each other. Eunice, Mabel, Ernestine, Gertrude...they call me Shirley. No offense to anybody with an old lady name.

I'm really not understanding what Sonja's party was about. Sooo...was she featured in Latina magazine? Or was that a catalog where she was modeling her clothing line? Or was it both? And I loved how she had to tell Heather her dress was imported Italian fabric. Who told you that, Sonja? Your team? And she should hope that shit gets sold in Kmart. Look at Jaclyn Smith and Kathy Ireland and now Sofia Vergara. They're not exactly Straight Outta Low-Cash like Lady Morgan.

Edited May 27, 2015 by charmed1

[jaync]

The whole narrative - or lack thereof - is creating an unlikable impression for Heather, and I don't know why, except to make sure, once again, that we side with Bethenny.

FWIW, Heather did win the WWHL poll a couple of weeks ago, so apparently she's still well liked by much of the viewing audience (or by Andy, if one believes the polls are rigged).

 

She simply doesn't want to when it comes to Heather.

Yep. If Beth just simply doesn't like Heather, then fine, she doesn't like her, no big whoop. But the way she seeks out to be offended by every.single.innocuous.thing that Heather says is pathetic. I think Beth is just being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole.

 

How many more times do the Birkins need to be posed for the camera? We get it, Beth, you have all the money.

[ryebread]

I was NOT enamored or enthralled with Carole's run for coop board but at least she was acting like a grown up. I don't get why she would need to engage such heavy hitters for such a thing. Real political campaign managers?? Really. I hope those handmade middle school looking posting that even Reese Witherspoon's character in Election would be embarrassed by were just for that initial 'think tank' and not used during the actual campaign. 

 

I *think* it was supposed to be tongue in cheek.  But a lot of effort was put into those posters and gathering of otherwise busy business people to her war room for the scene to end up feeling so flat.  I dunno.  I don't want made up crap on my reality TV.  If 1/2 the audience either doesn't get it or just finds it dumb, how funny/clever are you really?

 

Thought Kristen's apology was sincere to Sonja.  If Sonja produces another thing or not, I think Kristen was being genuinely kind and just wanted to show support.  Unlike Heather, whom I still believe wants Sonja to suffer another big fat fail.

[Mountainair]

I'm probably not going to come across very good here but Beth can miss me with all her whining about custody and weekends with her daughter. The only thing that matters is that she willingly signed up for this show knowing what filming schedules were like so her excuses are crap. She's not the only one on the show with children obligations, etc and she for damn sure isn't the only person in the world with shared custody, divorce issues, shitty childhood, etc.

I feel no ounce of sympathy for her and wish the show wold stop focusing on her so much. I realize that marriages can turn sour and unfortunately children can and are often involved however way back when she crawled into bed with Jason after having only known him for a short while she could have insisted on a condom or made damn sure she was on birth control herself. She didn't. To make matters worse, she decided she needed to marry him ASAP knowing she was a damaged individual. So, she was a dumb ass yet I'm supposed to feel sorry for her? Nah.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Forget the very very obvious "Scenes With A Therapist" in which we get to watch Bethenny make excuses for her rotten behavior based on having been abused as a child.

 

Seriously, how ridiculous is this?  When have you ever encountered someone who says something nasty as shit to you & then immediately tries to excuse the nastiness by crying about their abusive childhood or that they're going thru a divorce?  It's just so fuckin' dumb.  And not even funny dumb.  Just insults-your-intelligence idiotic.  If Bethenny does really behave this way in public, she's a fool.  And I don't believe she's a fool.  So we're just getting a fake routine here.  Honest Bethenny?  Yeah right.

 

Ramona. Yeesh. I felt sorry for Dorinda and for Ramona's date. Poor Dorinda. She really looked like she was going to cry by the end there. Terrible. So what if you don't like her boyfriend? Shut up about it.

 

This is pretty idiotic too.  I mean Moaner has said this stuff directly to the camera several times -- er, so she's pretty much talking shit about John to the whole fuckin' world.  How did she think she was gonna get away with her bullshit story of making Lu look bad?  Did she make this stuff up for a storyline?  If she did, it just seems forced & dopey.

[ryebread]

How would Heather know Sonja's price point for her clothing line? At this point, Sonja has not shared any info about that with Heather.

 

Bethenny called Heather after she went to Sonja's business meeting.  Even if my assumption is wrong that Beth didn't discuss the clothes, the launch date, the partners AND the price point during that call, Heather has eyes - she could see Sonja was wearing a silk evening gown that wouldn't be the type of merchandise sold in KMart.  She's awful.

 

I also believe that Beth told Heather that even though the merchandisers couldn't specifically name who they had deals with, Bloomies et al. were mentioned.  And then Bethenny and Heather laughing about it.  That's probably the only time those 2 had gotten along thus far.  Laughing at someone else's delusion.

[Trooper York]

Resting Perv face?

I love it. That's perfect!

[ghoulina]

Not for nothing but John always looks like that to me even when just reading a menu in a restaurant. Similar to some people who just have resting bitchface, I think John just has resting perv face.

 

Oh my gosh, he does! I never would have coined it so brilliantly, but I've noticed the same thing. Kadooz! 

[Luciano]

I go back and forth with Carole but I thought her reaction to Bethenny crying in CB2 was awesome. They are not close friends, Carole's been through some stuff herself, so she doesn't really act like the sky is falling everytime someone gets sad. Now that was the kind of cool chick persona that I got a kick out of.

Yeah, Carole annoys me most of the time, but I really liked her during that Bethenny scene. That was the best way to react for Bethenny, especially since it ended up with them laughing over having to pay for the napkins Bethenny used. I do see a nice friendship forming since they complement each other.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Luciano

[kassa]

Carole is all about creating elaborate scenes to be filmed.   It's like putting a play on in the back yard -- and it satisfies contractual obligations to provide x number of glimpses into her "real life."  The more she can fabricate, the less they can demand of her.  

 

I’m sure Bethenny had a deal up front.  I will give you crazy super rich homeless neurotic girl in the city (complete with luxury hotel room porn).  I will give you therapy sessions delving into my darkest past and a trip to Miami to visit my estranged stepfather.  I’ll have issues with whoever you want me to have issues with.  I’ll slag on whoever you want me to slag in my talking heads.  And you’ll pay me $x and give me all the Skinny Girl product placement we can cram in.

 

I hope for her daughter’s sake she’s getting actual therapy, because the snarling tone she used with her therapist is likely the tone her mother used with her, and no matter how much she loves her daughter, all I could think was her turning that tone on that little girl.  Because it's a reflex, and the divorce has exacerbated it.

 

She may be getting all the explanatory talking heads, but I don’t think they’re necessarily working in her favor (if that’s even BRAVO’s intention).  She’s a naturally witty woman, but trying way, way too hard, and the manic delivery is making me uncomfortable.

 

Heather and Luann are afraid they’re on the bubble, so they’re going to bring it.  I hope Luann settles down, though – laidback Countess is the best Countess.  Heather, unfortunately, does not have the gift of snark.  She's smart, and she's sharp, but her quips are like anvils.  She can't pull them off and then backtrack acting all innocent.  "Kmart" was a total slam - Sonja has never presented her delusional line as anything but "international luxury" -- even if you include "on a budget" you would not be talking Kmart.  

 

Kristin, on the other hand is carrying herself quite well so far.  She's learning the game.  I found her apology to Sonja fake, but it was good enough that it was plausible (and if genuine, quite a nice one).

 

Dorinda’s still a puzzle to me.  She obviously has some kind of hostility towards John.  He must really lay it down in the bedroom because I don’t really get them.  And it’s not my job to get them – she’s entitled to be happy with whomever.  But somebody who’s truly happy with someone will not sit by and calmly film scenes about how disgusting everybody else in the room thinks he is.  She had no problem telling him in no uncertain terms to back off her daughter – she couldn’t find the words to tell that room full of bitches “enough!”?

[ghoulina]

I also believe that Beth told Heather that even though the merchandisers couldn't specifically name who they had deals with, Bloomies et al. were mentioned.  And then Bethenny and Heather laughing about it.  That's probably the only time those 2 had gotten along thus far.  Laughing at someone else's delusion.

 

I'm just not so sure I see that happening. Beth is definitely not above being a bitch, but she also tends to be pretty upfront with people. So far, other than Kristen last night, she was the only one who's been supportive of Sonja. I know she thought that meeting was crazy pants, but I don't know if I see her getting all catty about it with Heather. The other reason I think this is because earlier in the season Heather kind of tried to bond with Bethenny over talking about how abrasive and cuckoo Ramona is, and Bethenny shut that shit down real fast. 

[Primetimer]

...Actually, she just goes to a conference room across the street, where she's hired a bunch of people to sit around and pretend to be her co-op board campaign staff.

Read the story

[Mozelle]

CB2 is for broke bitches like me. CB2 is the little cheaper sister company of Crate and Barrel, which I would think is also too pedestrian for B but would make more sense.

 

Yo, I won't lie. I was eyeing a coffee table on their site a few months back. I ended up not getting it, but my salaried ass isn't above CB2 because...well.

 

Heather IMO is not being edited to be a bossy busy buddy, she has always been like that, it got overlooked because she was against hated Aviva so it might seem more evident this season but it is nothing new or edited to look that way. 

 

I don't think it was overlooked at all. I'm firmly a Heather apologist now, but it wasn't always that way. She totally rubbed me the wrong way in her first season. I couldn't get a handle on her, and she did seem a busybody. Plus, I was still trying to figure out who this chick was taking on Ramona out the gate. I think it wasn't until the St. Barth's episodes that I feel like I finally came around to Heather. She took that walk into a clear glass door like a champ, and I liked the interaction between her and Carole. 

 

What I'm saying is--from the moment she's been on screen, Heather has been a tough as nails woman who won't hesitate to let someone know that she isn't going to stand for their behavior. That hasn't changed over the seasons. For me, though, what changed was my reaction to that. 

[ryebread]

I hope for her daughter’s sake she’s getting actual therapy, because the snarling tone she used with her therapist is likely the tone her mother used with her, and no matter how much she loves her daughter, all I could think was her turning that tone on that little girl.  Because it's a reflex, and the divorce has exacerbated it.

 

Even before Bryn was born, knowing about Beth's mother's dysfunctions and about Beth's own quick anger, I wondered about the kind of tone she was capable of taking with her future child when she screamed at Kelly, "Go to sleep.  Go to SLEEEEEEP!" 

 

I'm a calm parent but I wanted to snarl that at my own party-all-night toddler after a long, stressful day.  So Beth doing it doesn't seem like such a stretch I'm sorry to say.  I hope I'm wrong.

 

I'm just not so sure I see that happening. Beth is definitely not above being a bitch, but she also tends to be pretty upfront with people. So far, other than Kristen last night, she was the only one who's been supportive of Sonja. I know she thought that meeting was crazy pants, but I don't know if I see her getting all catty about it with Heather. The other reason I think this is because earlier in the season Heather kind of tried to bond with Bethenny over talking about how abrasive and cuckoo Ramona is, and Bethenny shut that shit down real fast. 

Beth was being snarky about it before she left the meeting  Then in the vestibule with her assistant.  Did she just call Heather to say, hey, you should help Sonja out with her new project.  I'm the wrong one for the job?  I honestly can't see Beth having any conversation without infusing some snark.

 

As far as shutting Heather down when it came to Moaner?  Beth was still establishing her BMOC status. I think she had a prob with Heather starting the snark because I think Bethenny has a problem with Heather starting anything. 

[HumblePi]

This had to be the highlight of the episode. The 30 second clip between commercials when Ramona and her partner are interviewing a woman who has filled out an application.

 

On the application there's a question under skills.  "List any other office machines you can operate:" The woman filled in the answer "stapler".  She then explains "because I thought like you know, like with bar-tending like you know, we staple receipts and stuff". 

 

If I was that woman, I would have NEVER signed a release for the show to use that clip.

 

[ScoobieDoobs]

Wait, so did Bethenny finally find an office?  Was she in her office with those poor, poor sad-looking assistants of hers, when she was turning down Dorinda's trip to the Berk-sheers?  So she's not riding around Manhattan in her limo all day stuck in traffic anymore?

[breezy424]

From Heather's blog:

It takes the same amount of work to develop a strategy and the collections for a branded business at Kmart (think of the Kardashians at Sears or Daisy Fuentes at Kohl’s) as it does to build a brand like Michael Kors at Bloomingdale’s or Calvin Klein at Macy’s, who both deal in multiple levels of distribution.

It was in no way meant as an insult to ask Sonja's business partner for clarification on their strategy for sales and distribution. Sonja describes what she is launching as an “international affordable luxury brand” and one dress worn at a party and in a random ad honestly doesn't define it for me. But any insights regarding the strategic nature of their launch naturally could...

The key here is that Sonja has said numerous times that she was selling luxury at 'affordable' prices.  To me, asking about KMart was a dig is questionable.  Let's face it.  Sonja is all over the place regarding her 'brand'.

Also from her blog:

Rushing into Carole’s results party to help set up, I was surprised to see Bethenny had already made it. I was happy she had, because she's often challenged with making dates due to her custody arrangements. Our talk about her custody of Bryn was a simple conversation to bring clarity to a topic she often discusses. I just didn't realize that only Bethenny can address it. I feel like there are a lot of unwritten rules with her. What you can ask, what you can say, how you can feel...it’s a little tough to navigate.

Interesting that the editors decided to not show this scene from the beginning.  They cut in mid conversation so we have no idea how the conversation was started.  Otherwise known as giving Heather the bitch edit.  Heather is right about Beth's rules.  Beth also has no problem grilling people about personal things.

Next week the tension between Heather and Beth continue:

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-7/episode-709/videos?clip=2868748

[WireWrap]

Bethenny called Heather after she went to Sonja's business meeting.  Even if my assumption is wrong that Beth didn't discuss the clothes, the launch date, the partners AND the price point during that call, Heather has eyes - she could see Sonja was wearing a silk evening gown that wouldn't be the type of merchandise sold in KMart.  She's awful.

 

I also believe that Beth told Heather that even though the merchandisers couldn't specifically name who they had deals with, Bloomies et al. were mentioned.  And then Bethenny and Heather laughing about it.  That's probably the only time those 2 had gotten along thus far.  Laughing at someone else's delusion.

Actually, they did not say what stores they were aiming for because they were in "talks" with a number of stores and no price were discussed. And from what Heather said, about that phone call,  Bethenny was skeptical about all of it and about Sonja's "team".  JMO

[izabella]

How many more times do the Birkins need to be posed for the camera? We get it, Beth, you have all the money.

 

Beth has all the money but NO joy.  That money has not brought her any joy or happiness whatsoever.  She is miserable and is spreading her misery like the plague in every room she walks into.

[ryebread]

Actually, they did not say what stores they were aiming for because they were in "talks" with a number of stores and no price were discussed. And from what Heather said, about that phone call,  Bethenny was skeptical about all of it and about Sonja's "team".  JMO

I know but Sonja was telling others, Bloomies and Macy's and somewhere she said Harrod's IIRC.  LOL.  Now that kind of delusion could not be ignored - Beth was totally skeptical.  That's why when she made the phone call to Heather, in the couple hours after the meeting and before Dorinda's cocktail party, what else would they have discussed besides the collection, Sonja's delusion and Beth's disbelief? 

 

For me, bottom line is, Heather KNEW Sonja wasn't angling for a Kmart line.  She was just being a bitch.  Her blog is all kinds of backpedaling.

[OhGromit]

Shallow note - isn't it hilarious how Sonja walks down the sidewalk like it's a runway? With a jaunty little bounce and her lips pursed? Who is she trying to impress!?

 

The cameras!  Us, the audience! 

Edited May 27, 2015 by OhGromit

[HumblePi]

I just finished watching the entire episode. I've said previously that I didn't watch RHoNY when Bethenny Frankel was a cast member. I had seen bits and pieces and decided then that I didn't like her or Jill or anyone. I also never watched Bethenny's talk show. I just honestly never liked her on a personal level, not for any other reasons other than I found her abrasive and talked too fast.

 

I've completely changed my mind about Bethenny Frankel. I know about her childhood and it was horrible. Now I like her almost for the same reasons I disliked her. She just cuts to the chase of things, goes to the heart of the matter. She doesn't mince words and she says exactly what she thinks. She's very vulnerable and still healing, that's obvious. I appreciate that Bethenny puts her weekends with her daughter above a weekend at Dorinda's house in the Berkshires, which looked beautiful by the way in the promo for the next episode.

 

I have also changed my opinion of Dorinda. I didn't like her at first and felt she didn't quite fit in with the others. Now I can see that the other women really like Dorinda and respect her. I haven't seen Dorinda be intentionally catty or spiteful yet, maybe that's why I still like her. Her boyfriend looks like the exact opposite of any man I could ever be attracted to both physically, and mentally.

[WireWrap]

I know but Sonja was telling others, Bloomies and Macy's and somewhere she said Harrod's IIRC.  LOL.  Now that kind of delusion could not be ignored - Beth was totally skeptical.  That's why when she made the phone call to Heather, in the couple hours after the meeting and before Dorinda's cocktail party, what else would they have discussed besides the collection, Sonja's delusion and Beth's disbelief? 

 

For me, bottom line is, Heather KNEW Sonja wasn't angling for a Kmart line.  She was just being a bitch.  Her blog is all kinds of backpedaling.

Not me, I think Heather was unclear where this "affordable" line of clothes was to be sold from, if it even happened. Heather has first hand experience with Sonja saying 1 thing and doing the opposite (product wise), Bethenny does not. Even at Dorinda's party, when Sonja spoke to Heather/LuAnn, she did not mention any store names, so Heather would not have any idea where these clothes were destined to be sold. AND apparently, they, Sonja/team, never got any store to pick up her line, so maybe she should have considered KMart from the get go. LOL

[ryebread]

Not me, I think Heather was unclear where this "affordable" line of clothes was to be sold from, if it even happened. Heather has first hand experience with Sonja saying 1 thing and doing the opposite (product wise), Bethenny does not. Even at Dorinda's party, when Sonja spoke to Heather/LuAnn, she did not mention any store names, so Heather would not have any idea where these clothes were destined to be sold. AND apparently, they, Sonja/team, never got any store to pick up her line, so maybe she should have considered KMart from the get go. LOL

 

Heather has eyes. Sonja was standing in front of Heather with a silk red evening dress on.  Heather is a lot of things but she's not entirely stupid.  Why/how could she look at that and ask if they were selling to Kmart?   

 

If Heather had designed and planned on selling the evening gown she was wearing at an event and anyone asked her if Kmart was distributing it....LOL...nostrils would have flared.

Edited May 27, 2015 by ryebread

[motorcitymom65]

Actually, they did not say what stores they were aiming for because they were in "talks" with a number of stores and no price were discussed. And from what Heather said, about that phone call,  Bethenny was skeptical about all of it and about Sonja's "team".  JMO

I have no idea if Heather was trying to be stealth or not. Since no one from Sonja's "team" had as yet actually ever been able to name a potential retailer, she might have been throwing something out to provoke a reaction and therefore get them to enunciate what the fuck it is they are talking about. After she said Kmart they were suddenly able to start listing retailers, something they weren't doing before. My cute husband has a fairly senior role at one of the luxury retailers her "team" named. He rarely watches the show but caught that part and he just laughed and laughed and laughed. He said it sounded like Heather was probably on the right track with Kmart, since the discussion is about "affordable" or "accessible" luxury. I could see someone thinking about Kohls, Kmart, Target, etc.

[SFoster21]

Talk about your bad edits. John is getting royally hosed.

First they mention cheating and flash to John's grinning mug. Then they bring in the caviar girl and position the camera cuts to make it look like he was drooling over her when they weren't in the same frame. Then the producers make him leave the table so they can talk about him. They wouldn't have done that if he was sitting there because he would have confronted them as he did when he was allowed back in the room. They made it look like he followed the girl out to hit on her when they had to get him out of the room. Ramona would have never brought it up because she is a bully but also a coward. Witness how she tried to bullshit John when he was back in the room.

I expect that from Satan Andy because he has a problem with ethnics be they Italian, Armenian or black. He will always set them up to be foolish at best or venal scumbags at worst.

Ultimately it is John's fault for being a fame whore. I just hope his personal reputation and business are not destroyed in the process. Big mistake filming buddy. Big mistake.

You know, the "stars" of these shows are largely white women and damn near all of them are made to look like idiots and fools. Can't buy this stretch. Ain't no damn body "Satan." Consenting adults sign up and get what they get.

[jimene79]

To me, the Bethenny/Heather scene was definitely Heather trying to be empathetic to Bethenny. I actually think it's kind of revolting how Bethenny tried to use that against her.  Also revolting...Bethenny saying that working moms have a "choice"  was an entitled, tin-eared thing to say - especially nowadays.  Many mothers don't have any choice - for f#$! there's a ton of women forced to go back to work days after having their baby.  Hate her.

[ElsieH]

The best part of that job application is in the screen cap from the write-up.... What types of computer software are you proficient in? And she answered "Micros(??)", Instagram, Tinder, Word, and Twitter". OMG I'm dying.

[AnnaL]

Isn't it crazy that when Carole is not focused on her chef she can go back to be somehow a normal woman?

 

Is this just an act for the cameras? does she regresses and pretends to be a teen when he is around or is it just an act?

 

Bethenny and Carole discussing the two dollar napkin was hilarious to me and I can see how they have started to warm to each other.

 

Heather loses me completely with her carefully fabricated "I care so much about you that I have to ask you these personal questions on camera because that is how much I care about you" routine, she mentions in her blog that Bethenny has talked about arraignments for her daughter several times, that is normal conversation, she has provided those as an explanation for leaving early or not going to an event, to bluntly ask her what is her custody arraigment is way too deep for a person who you have known for few weeks.

 

It would be like a person saying "I am having problems at home and I can't make it to your party" and another person using that statement as an excuse to ask me, "how is the divorce going on, have you guys split the assets yet?" The custody issues were under a gag order and while Bethenny has probably talked to them behind cameras, at least on cameras she has been vague about it, to ask for the specific number of days that she has her daughter is way too much, way too soon.

 

Heather has this immense need to know everything about everybody and to be nosy about all details of others, she throws the stone and hides the hand, was really any need for her to tell Ramona that she had let the walls down and being more humble and nice as opposed as her previous nasty persona? what did she expected Ramona's reaction to be? could she have just enjoyed the fact that they were having a nice moment? Sometimes no comments are needed.

 

Seems to me that once Heather lit up the match and had Ramona going she just sat back and enjoy the carnage between Ramona and Luann. There is definitely something very phony about Heather , IMO except for Carole , her concern about the other ladies comes across as fake.

[sasha206]

I thought Kristen's apology to Sonja was ridiculous. Sonja got her picture in a magazine - great, but her Sonja empire is still a figment of her imagination. Yes, Sonja was wearing a dress - an actual toaster came out of the box - but does she have a line? Are they are on sale anywhere? No, and no. But hey, at least it gave Kristen a scene.

 

I thought so too.  She seemed more concerned that she might *be perceived* as a mean girl.  I am sooooo ready for Dorinda's take down of her next week.

 

I felt sorry for Dorinda in this episode.  Really, Moaner, should you really be judging the mates of your friends?  I mean, given your own situation?  

 

I actually thought Carole was kind of funny with Bethenney.  Sometimes you hug someone and they REALLY get going.  I think Carole's "I'm not a hugger" type of comments would've made me laugh a bit and diffused the situation.  

Edited May 27, 2015 by sasha206

[Persnickety1]

I thought Kristen's apology to Sonja was ridiculous. Sonja got her picture in a magazine - great, but her Sonja empire is still a figment of her imagination. Yes, Sonja was wearing a dress - an actual toaster came out of the box - but does she have a line? Are they are on sale anywhere? No, and no. But hey, at least it gave Kristen a scene.

 

I'm telling ya, I'm already wringing my hands in anticipation of next week's episode and Dorinda totally calling out Kristen for her part in the dancing with John debacle.  

 

I'm hoping that irritating O face might just be frozen on Kristen's face after that scene.

 

I was neutral about Dorinda until tonight.  I really felt bad for her during her birthday "celebration."  And imagine that, her good "friend" Ramona, who apparently has been crying on Dorinda's shoulder throughout the Mario shenanigans, is the one leading the pack against John.  I think Dorinda is seeing a side of Ramona she probably had never seen before.  

 

Welcome to Bravo, Dorinda, where destroying friendships is expected (hell, encouraged) to help bring the drama and the ratings.  

 

Betrayal, party of 1, your table is ready.

 

But, in all honesty, did any of us here on PTV think Ramona had truly changed?  

 

Now let's get this show on the road for next week when Kristen will finally get that camera time she's been angling for...but somehow I doubt this is the way she wanted it to unfold.  

Edited May 27, 2015 by Persnickety1

[OhGromit]

I had to google a Maleficent tattoo.  My god, they exist.

 

 

Good god, what body part is that?  

[imjagain]

I already have forgotten the names of the two guys who are "executives" with Sonja Morgan's Vanderlay Industries, but I remember looking at their LinkedIn profiles, and both contained such buzzy phrases as "international luxury lifestyle."

These women are so shallow that if John looked like a Jacques, or Mario, they wouldn't care about him dating Dorinda. (And I like Dorinda, but this isn't exactly a case of a very mismatched Paulina Porizkova dating Ric Ocasek, if you get my drift.) I don't remember anyone saying a word about a much-younger man going after a freshly-divorced Countess. It's the Upper East Side, so it's a sin to be anything less than svelte and to show perspiration.

And I think Ramona's way of starting a sentence with "in all sincerity" needs to be a drinking game.

When I hear/see the phrase "if you get my drift" it always cracks me up, my mom used to say it when she was trying to say something shady about someone without actually saying it lol(she had a thick Spanish accent so it was more like dreeft) . So when I read it in your post it made me laugh, thank you Edited May 27, 2015 by imjagain

[ryebread]

There is definitely something very phony about Heather , IMO except for Carole , her concern about the other ladies comes across as fake.

 

I can't argue with that. I think their friendship works because Heather likes to be in charge and Carole, now in her teen years, needs someone to take charge. She's lost her footing or something. This is possibly why the friendship with Bethenny is going to work.  Bethenny likes to mentor and Carole seems, to me, like she needs a mentor.

[trimthatfat]

Based on that preview clip posted a few replies back, Heather is extremely annoying and overbearing. Bethenny informed the host and hostess of her dietary restrictions. Heather, as the guest, did not need to interject, particularly since Bethenny said she'd be able to see what she can and cannot eat once she'd been served. Heather's aggressiveness is very off-putting.

[Trooper York]

Didn't the make a movie about people named "Heather?"

[nexxie]

Totally LOVE Dorinda calling out Ramona for making Lu the scapegoat - Dorinda has her eyes open.

Bethenny probably doesn't give a rats ass about Heather or any of the other cast mates.

 

The producers gives them all a script or season over-view for them to follow. This show has as much relationship to reality as I do to being a runway model.

Agreed. It was interesting watching Bethenny with Andy on WWHL last night - their views of the franchise, etc.

[Mrs peel]

Nobody will ever get through to Sonja, so pat her on the head and tell her she's pretty, say you’re sorry that you were "mean" to her and I'm sure all will be goo

.God, that is so true.

It's the same in NYC, but sometimes it takes a long time to count the ballots, so people have left the meeting and are notified later.

Thanks GussieK.  Makes sense, but with 30 units that’s not what happened here.  And, again at least where I live, the new board usually meets immediately after to elect officers.  So folks running for the board don’t leave.  So again, probably fake.

My thing with Ramona is that her complaints about John seem really superficial. He's not abusive to Dorinda and she has repeatedly said that she is happy with him. From what I see, Ramona's issue is that John is a bit of a flirt who doesn't have the right connections or great wealth.

I do think Ramona mentioned that the wealth thing made her suspect he was using Dorinda.

I agree this is all superficial, the “he doesn’t live in Manhattan” especially.  I also think that the fact that he basically owns a dry cleaner, incredibly upscale though it may be, is part of the “problem.”  Ramona doesn’t consider it a white collar job/career.  Though of course Mario’s business selling cheap religious medals and finisher medals isn’t exactly a seat on the NY Stock Exchange either, but then again we don’t expect logic here.

 

But using Dorinda for her money?  The money she did/didn’t get from husband #2?  Someone linked to the NY Times wedding story, which said Dorinda met him when she was his real estate agent, and she was quoted “well, if I knew I’d end up living in the place I would have pushed for the other townhouse.”  A townhouse she clearly doesn’t have now.  Hey, I get it, she’s trying to live within her means, but I don’t have the sense that she has oodles of excess wealth either.  Yeah, she lives in the UES (but relatively isn’t the UES now cheaper than hipper neighborhoods?), buys expensive shoes/clothes.  And the house in the Berkshires (which looks great).  I know she had a cashmere business in London, but I wonder about her net worth (though I will always love the line “money talks, wealth whispers).  I think she had tons of $$ with hubby #2, but he likely had children and didn’t leave it all to her.

 

I go back and forth with Bethenny at this point.  I do appreciate that she won’t go somewhere if she has her daughter with her, and considering the bad blood with Jason she can’t easily ask to switch time out.  But she could solve that problem with $$.  She thinks her daughter is hurting with the divorce?  Then settle it.  Would it require she pay out more than she thinks she should have to?  Likely.  But I gotta tell you, I did divorce law for years (nothing this high end though), and anytime a client complained their divorce was taking too long (or longer than their friend X), I would remind them if they agreed to everything the other side wanted now we could be done, finished.  Never happened.  And what’s going on in the divorce is nothing compared to what she claimed to have witnessed in her mother’s second marriage. 

Heather has eyes. Sonja was standing in front of Heather with a silk red evening dress on.  Heather is a lot of things but she's not entirely stupid.  Why/how could she look at that and ask if they were selling to Kmart? 

Yeah, but Bethenny’s original “skinnygirl” margherita (sp?) had very expensive tequila, and the actual skinnygirl does not, so there’s that.

 

However, I did think Kmart was a dig, but considering we won’t see the clothes anywhere anyway, didn’t care.  I see what Heather is saying about strategies, etc., but Kmart was never in the plan for Sonja.  Because she’s too stupid to realize the 99% still have to buy clothes, and so many people want to emulate anyone who is on TV, no matter how ridiculous they are. 

 

What’s the possibility Sonja hooked up with these folks just to get some free clothes and jewelry out of the deal?

[LotusFlower]

 

Heather: So what is the visitation. So six days you don't have her?

Bethenny: No no no.

Heather: Oh, 'cause I thought that you said is, like, 'Six days I don't get to see her.' I'm like, that's not fair. You gotta fix that.

Bethenny's TH: I find it very personal for someone to ask you about your custody.

Does Heather come on a little strong, at least to some people's comfort level? Sure. But I think she's a fighter, a very loyal and committed person with strong convictions, someone who's always trying to right a wrong, as this passage illustrates. Heather is trying to get to know Bethenny, so she asked about the custody agreement not only because Bethenny talks about it, but also because it was peripherally brought up vis a vis Bethenny leaving the party early. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, there's something very "right" about it, in my book, as Heather hears (or perhaps misheard) an arrangement she doesn't think is fair to Bethenny, and wants to "fix that." That, to me, is someone who is very clearly on your side, which we know is characteristic of Heather. That doesn't mean that Bethenny has to like her. If she doesn't, that's her prerogative. But she doesn't have to criticize her for showing interest and support.

From Heather's blog:

Our talk about her custody of Bryn was a simple conversation to bring clarity to a topic she often discusses. I just didn't realize that only Bethenny can address it. I feel like there are a lot of unwritten rules with her. What you can ask, what you can say, how you can feel...it’s a little tough to navigate.

Exactly.

[Trooper York]

kassa said

 

Dorinda’s still a puzzle to me.  She obviously has some kind of hostility towards John.  He must really lay it down in the bedroom because I don’t really get them.  And it’s not my job to get them – she’s entitled to be happy with whomever.  But somebody who’s truly happy with someone will not sit by and calmly film scenes about how disgusting everybody else in the room thinks he is.  She had no problem telling him in no uncertain terms to back off her daughter – she couldn’t find the words to tell that room full of bitches “enough!”?

 

I am troubled by that too. Dorito seems to be pissed at John most of the time. He is what he is. I think he is proud of who he is and what he does. I would expect the judgmental bitches on the Real Housewives of New York to dislike and mock someone who works for a living so that is no surprise. It appears that Dorito is going after Kristen next week about the grinding scene. So there is that. But if she scorns John that much why doesn't she go get herself a cool sexy faithful dude like Mario or Josh.

 

I can't believe John is happy about the way he is playing the part of a piñata this season. Every scene he is in he is either set up to look like a perv or people are talking about how gross they think he is. Her daughter is calling him fat and asking why her Mom is dating him because she can't bear to be in the same room as him. He should drop this show and Dorito as soon as possible.  Cut rate Ellen Barkin impersonators are a dime a dozen.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Trooper York

[AnnaL]

Heather didn't just commented casually if Sonja's line would be sold at K-Mart , we all saw the previous scenes with her remarks about how a picture doesn't make a line, how a dress doesn't mean anything and while all that is true the fact remains IMO that Heather seemed to be a little bit irritated that Sonja even dare to show up with a dress from her collection.

 

Kristen was nice enough to admit that in the past she has been catty about Sonja and her products, Bethenny was honest enough to admit that she had thought this was all a fantasy but seemed really excited when she found out that Sonja actually had some clothes in her line, Sonja will never set the world on fire with her collection, heck she probably won't be able to sell a dozen of dresses as overpriced as they are but in last night episode she was at an event where she was trying to showcase her collection, would it have killed Heather to be a little bit more gracious?

 

I wonder how would Heather react if one of her castmates would question Heather's investors at one of her YT events and ask her if the line will be sold at the dollar stores? Heather would go ballistic.

[archer1267]

I would expect the judgmental bitches on the Real Housewives of New York to dislike and mock someone who works for a living so that is no surprise.

 

 

I always thought it funny that some of these women carried airs when they would likely be looked down upon by the true NY elite. I mean, as an example, Bobby Zarin is a nice man who can buy his wife all sorts of fancy toys, but I'm sure there are those who would have considered him a "fabric merchant" and not their social equal. And what did Mario do, exactly? Sell religious gifts wholesale? From what I've seen online, it's Ramona who was the primary wage earner.

[motorcitymom65]

 

 

Heather loses me completely with her carefully fabricated "I care so much about you that I have to ask you these personal questions on camera because that is how much I care about you" routine, she mentions in her blog that Bethenny has talked about arraignments for her daughter several times, that is normal conversation, she has provided those as an explanation for leaving early or not going to an event, to bluntly ask her what is her custody arraigment is way too deep for a person who you have known for few weeks.

 

 

We all know certain things about Beth's custody because she has discussed them. On camera. In the very first episode, when she cried about being homeless to Fredrik, she mentioned only being able to see her daughter 50% of the time. She cried and lamented this situation. He said later on WWHL that he tried to be sympathetic and say the right thing to her, but that he actually doesn't know Beth all that well.  Yet she talked with him about this. And with the audience. She has clearly talked about it with the others in regard to the reason she has to modify her filming schedule. She had clearly mentioned "6 days" to Heather, as Heather inquired further into this. It must be frustrating to have someone on your reality show who is talking a lot about their reality but doesn't want for anyone else to try to understand it. She had no problem questioning Dorinda about her issues with her daughter and John, and in giving her advice, which included "that is nuts, you cannot separate your life like that". 

 

I wonder how many times Bravo had to edit out folks asking Beth about her boyfriend, who she seemed to be very serious about at the time. Or maybe she made it very clear that this particular topic was off limits? Has there ever been a ho'wife on any of these shows who has had a very public relationship going on during filming that simply doesn't ever mention it at all? She is acting like she is a singleton and that she has a hard time trusting people and letting them into her life, while some articles were saying they were living together at the time. Seems like something she would have been discussing with her Therapist if this wasn't all for show to make Beth appear more sympathetic. Showing her having a happy love life clearly didn't fit in with the narrative. 

 

And that is really what is bugging me about all of this. Beth is clearly here simply as part of a PR campaign.  When Andy confirmed that Beth was coming back, which I believe was in the Fall, he said that he was surprised that word didn't leak out sooner, since they had made the decision back in July.  Guess what happened to Beth in July?  Beth posted that picture of herself wearing Bryn's PJ's.  She got all kinds of shit over that. She had been publicly getting shit for a long time, but this was so different. Folks were talking about what a poor role model she was for Bryn, how dangerous it was for a young girl to have such messages put in front of her, etc. I know that Beth kind of blew it off publicly, but I think it was a big deal and I thought then that the first thing she would do was to call up Andy Cohen and ask for a platform for a "re-do". A platform to show herself as a great mother. Some way for her to tell her story and to make folks understand why she is like she is.  IMO this is what all of this is about. Let her talk with her Therapist about how she cannot trust "new people", which explains the way she has been treating some of the new gals. Let her talk about how she doesn't care about missing things if it means she can spend time with her daughter, which shows what a superior mother she is. Let her talk about how this divorce has made her a "vulnerable" person. I don't know if she will end up being more liked or not, but I don't believe that is necessarily the plan. Folks don't have to like her, but they will at least understand her more based on all that she has been through. That was the plan and from the comments I think it is working perfectly. If I were one of the other ladies, I might just hate it. 

 

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-moms/news/bethenny-frankel-wears-4-year-old-daughter-bryn-clothes-picture-2014137

[WireWrap]

Heather has eyes. Sonja was standing in front of Heather with a silk red evening dress on.  Heather is a lot of things but she's not entirely stupid.  Why/how could she look at that and ask if they were selling to Kmart?   

 

If Heather had designed and planned on selling the evening gown she was wearing at an event and anyone asked her if Kmart was distributing it....LOL...nostrils would have flared.

There was no way for Heather to know if that dress would be sold in silk or if Sonja was going to use, say rayon like LuAnn does in her clothing line (she is on EVINE now LOL). I think some believe that Heather knew more about Sonja's line from Bethenny but Sonja never told Bethenny what materials she would use for her clothes, where they would be made or where they would be sold. Bethenny called Heather because she was worried Sonja was getting taken for a ride, not to fill her in on the details about the clothes themselves.

[LotusFlower]

Heather didn't just commented casually if Sonja's line would be sold at K-Mart , we all saw the previous scenes with her remarks about how a picture doesn't make a line, how a dress doesn't mean anything and while all that is true the fact remains IMO that Heather seemed to be a little bit irritated that Sonja even dare to show up with a dress from her collection.

Kristen was nice enough to admit that in the past she has been catty about Sonja and her products, Bethenny was honest enough to admit that she had thought this was all a fantasy but seemed really excited when she found out that Sonja actually had some clothes in her line, Sonja will never set the world on fire with her collection, heck she probably won't be able to sell a dozen of dresses as overpriced as they are but in last night episode she was at an event where she was trying to showcase her collection, would it have killed Heather to be a little bit more gracious?

I wonder how would Heather react if one of her castmates would question Heather's investors at one of her YT events and ask her if the line will be sold at the dollar stores? Heather would go ballistic.

What collection? She doesn't have a collection. That was Heather's point. While her K-Mart Q might have been a bit of a put-down, she wasn't wrong. Bloomingdale's? Nordstroms? Do you know how hard it is for a new designer to get retail space in a high-end store? And Sonja isn't even a designer!

Kristen was showing kindness in what she said to Sonja, but I think she was blinded by an actual dress on an actual model, without stepping back to realize that there's still no fashion line. In that way, she was almost doing a disservice to Sonja in feeding into the delusions. At this stage, the Sonja Morgan Collection is no different than the toaster oven - just an idea and a pipe dream.

Edited May 27, 2015 by LotusFlower

[breezy424]

Nothing wrong about getting a deal with K Mart.  Just ask Martha Stewart.  Adam Levine and Nicki Menaj also have lines at K Mart as well as Selena Gomez.

Edited May 27, 2015 by breezy424

[izabella]

I don't know if [bethenny] will end up being more liked or not, but I don't believe that is necessarily the plan.

 

Her plan isn't working for me.  I used to like her during her first run, didn't see her other shows, and was looking forward to her coming back.  But she is coming off really badly to me this time with her homeless, downtrodden, victim persona who's too wary and stressed to have a normal conversation with her co-workers.  Everything is traumatic or dramatic with her now, even having a child that she cares for. 

 

She should be reveling right now.  She's successful, wealthy, has a lovely daughter, and can live anywhere and however she wants and can do anything she wants.  Instead, she's acting like she's being zapped with cattle prods or otherwise tortured every moment she isn't on screen.  She is both twitchy and bitchy AND weepy, and is highly unpleasant to be around.