General True Crime Shows

[LuvMyShows]

On 5/25/2021 at 7:41 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

Just saw Lori Vallow and husband charged with murder. 
https://abc11.com/lori-vallow-and-husband-indicted-on-murder-charges-in-deaths-of-2-kids/10694176/

Thanks for posting this...hallelujah!!

[SunnyBeBe]

I’m annoyed that I’ve read a couple of places that they killed the children due to their religious beliefs.....that’s infuriating.  They have perverted their religion to justify their evil.

[Koalagirl]

This is infuriating!

https://nypost.com/2021/05/27/lori-vallow-declared-unfit-for-trial-in-murder-of-her-children/

 

 

[SunnyBeBe]

16 minutes ago, Koalagirl said:

This is infuriating!

https://nypost.com/2021/05/27/lori-vallow-declared-unfit-for-trial-in-murder-of-her-children/

 

 

I read an outside psychologist made that recommendation, but it is contested.  I guess they’ll let the experts chime in on their opinions.  She’ll eventually face her fate. 
 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/05/27/lori-vallow-daybell-ruled-unfit-trial-children-deaths-idaho/7470665002/

Edited May 27, 2021 by SunnyBeBe

[andromeda331]

16 hours ago, Koalagirl said:

This is infuriating!

https://nypost.com/2021/05/27/lori-vallow-declared-unfit-for-trial-in-murder-of-her-children/

 

 

What? That's bullshit!

[LuvMyShows]

Oh good grief, more incompetence.  In the latest Accident, Suicide or Murder, a man is found dead in his home.  Over the years he had been an alcoholic, got sober for many years, then fell off the wagon when he married his current wife several months earlier, and she and her son moved in and were using drugs in his house.

One morning the wife said that she went out to CVS at 5 am to fill a prescription and when she came back he was dead.  (That doesn't sound suspicious at all...everyone goes to fill prescriptions at 5 am.)  It was determined that he died from a heroin overdose, but the syringe was never found (again, nothing suspicious there), and the other members of the man's family said that he did not do drugs (nope, not suspicious).  Yet it didn't appear that they tested his hair to find out if he had been using heroin before this overdose. 

But worse, the wife said that although her son lived in the house, he was not there at the time of the murder, so the idiot detective said that since the son wasn't at the house at the time of the murder, he didn't interview him.  WTAF?  First, how do you not at least interview the son for corroboration about whether he really was or wasn't there, and to possibly corroborate the mom's alibi.  Second, how do you not interview him for an understanding of how life had been going in the house, including how his mom and step-dad were getting along.  Third, even after it was determined that the son was stealing from the coats of the attendees at the man's funeral, they still didn't interview him about his step-dad's death, even now being a possible suspect in his own right given his shadiness.

[Annber03]

I saw that story, too. I was already suspicious of the aunt's death a few months prior as it was, and then when they talked about the guy's wife and her son wanting the house, that pretty much confirmed my suspicions. And sure enough...

But yeah, it is amazing how many red flags and simple investigative avenues were missed or ignored for the longest time. Hell, just the idea in and of itself of two drug users moving in with a guy who'd had a history of drug abuse of his own, only for him and his aunt to both wind up dead in a short period of time...that alone should've been enough to make investigators go, "Hmm....something seems very off here."

[One Tough Cookie]

20 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

Oh good grief, more incompetence.  In the latest Accident, Suicide or Murder, a man is found dead in his home.  Over the years he had been an alcoholic, got sober for many years, then fell off the wagon when he married his current wife several months earlier, and she and her son moved in and were using drugs in his house.

One morning the wife said that she went out to CVS at 5 am to fill a prescription and when she came back he was dead.  (That doesn't sound suspicious at all...everyone goes to fill prescriptions at 5 am.)  It was determined that he died from a heroin overdose, but the syringe was never found (again, nothing suspicious there), and the other members of the man's family said that he did not do drugs (nope, not suspicious).  Yet it didn't appear that they tested his hair to find out if he had been using heroin before this overdose. 

But worse, the wife said that although her son lived in the house, he was not there at the time of the murder, so the idiot detective said that since the son wasn't at the house at the time of the murder, he didn't interview him.  WTAF?  First, how do you not at least interview the son for corroboration about whether he really was or wasn't there, and to possibly corroborate the mom's alibi.  Second, how do you not interview him for an understanding of how life had been going in the house, including how his mom and step-dad were getting along.  Third, even after it was determined that the son was stealing from the coats of the attendees at the man's funeral, they still didn't interview him about his step-dad's death, even now being a possible suspect in his own right given his shadiness.

This story was on in the afternoon, but it was my nap time and I fell asleep.  It's probably on demand.  Did you guys know that the OWN network has a lot of Datelines?

I need a new life,☹️

[SunnyBeBe]

Has anyone seen the Lifetime movie Chris Watts:Confessions of a Murderer?

[LuvMyShows]

1 hour ago, One Tough Cookie said:

Did you guys know that the OWN network has a lot of Datelines?

I only saw that they have 20/20 episodes...

[One Tough Cookie]

3 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

I only saw that they have 20/20 episodes...

My bad..........................................😳.

[Persnickety1]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Has anyone seen the Lifetime movie Chris Watts:Confessions of a Murderer?

Is it a made for Lifetime movie?  I may have to track it down (even though Lifetime doesn't necessarily care about silly little things such as facts in their "true stories," I still watch them  😂 )

[SunnyBeBe]

3 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

Is it a made for Lifetime movie?  I may have to track it down (even though Lifetime doesn't necessarily care about silly little things such as facts in their "true stories," I still watch them  😂 )

Yes. I saw the trailer.  I’m not sure if it’s worth downloading the Lifetime app on my Firestick in order to watch it, because I probably wouldn’t watch anything else on it.  They sure did get some similar looking actors....it’s freaky how much they resemble the actual people.  It looks very disturbing.

 

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by SunnyBeBe

[smittykins]

12 hours ago, One Tough Cookie said:

My bad..........................................😳.

I’ve seen Dateline on OWN(that and the 20/20 reruns are the only shows I watch on that channel).

[Tdoc72]

On 6/2/2021 at 7:21 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

Has anyone seen the Lifetime movie Chris Watts:Confessions of a Murderer?

Yes, it was so-so. 
 

This Saturday, Lifetime is doing the Jennifer Dulos murder for their true crime movie, followed by an hour of true crime show about the same case. It stars Annabeth Gish & Warren Christie. 8pm EST

[Persnickety1]

On 6/2/2021 at 9:08 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

Yes. I saw the trailer.  I’m not sure if it’s worth downloading the Lifetime app on my Firestick in order to watch it, because I probably wouldn’t watch anything else on it.  They sure did get some similar looking actors....it’s freaky how much they resemble the actual people.  It looks very disturbing.

 

 

Oy, this was difficult to find anywhere.

I even signed up for the Lifetime app "Movie Club," and it wasn't on there.  It also wasn't on the regular Lifetime app.  The whole movie wasn't on YouTube.

Seriously, it became a quest for me to find this damned thing so I can watch it.  

I finally ran a Google search and investigated further.  I finally found it being streamed from somebody's Facebook page, asked my son-in-law to mirror it to the TV, and watched about the first 10 minutes.  Mini Persnickety wanted to watch it, too, but she had given up the quest and fallen asleep 😂

Now that we've found it though, we'll be watching it tonight with dinner.  

I can't for the life of me figure out why Lifetime made this movie so hard to find.  I guess I'll be cancelling my 7-day free trials of Lifetime and Lifetime Movie Club, though.  

[SunnyBeBe]

Does anyone know what happened with this homicide?  It sounds really bizarre.  It’s the only story on this site that I have ever seen that does not have a comment option. For some reason comments are not allowed.  Why?  So bizarre.   

Socialite kills local police officer as they drink near ocean, in wee hours.....she claims it’s an accident.  Huh?
 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9653815/TOM-LEONARD-New-details-socialite-police-chief-drinking-buddy.html

 

[Persnickety1]

Did anyone watch "Gone Mom" on Lifetime last night?

I have it on my DVR and am going to watch it later today.

It's the story of Jennifer Dulos.  I had seen a program on the case on Dateline or 20/20.  I didn't realize her husband had committed suicide last year.  

Really sad case.

[badhaggis]

3 hours ago, Persnickety1 said:

Did anyone watch "Gone Mom" on Lifetime last night?

I have it on my DVR and am going to watch it later today.

It's the story of Jennifer Dulos.  I had seen a program on the case on Dateline or 20/20.  I didn't realize her husband had committed suicide last year.  

Really sad case.

It really is. I wish that before he killed himself he had said where she was. Now their children have no parents and no idea where their mom is. It is a huge sad mess.

[auntjess]

 

On 6/2/2021 at 6:42 PM, One Tough Cookie said:

This story was on in the afternoon, but it was my nap time and I fell asleep.  It's probably on demand.  Did you guys know that the OWN network has a lot of Dateline

I live by my DVR, and on U-verse, if you find a show anywhere, you can click on "more showtimes" and see like ever Dateline that's on anywhere, but like "20/20 Homicide" is different from the plain, so you have to look at each.
I do this because I like to see if a Russell Williams (Canadian colonel and murderer) show is on.
Does anyone else watch the To Catch a Smuggler shows, plain (US), and several other countries.
They're my current favorites among since DiscoveryL has taken all my other shows.

[SunnyBeBe]

I don’t catch many crime shows anymore, but I did recently watch the entire season of Murder House Flip!  Yes, these experts renovate homes where famous murders have occurred!  It’s really good, imo.  The homeowners stay in the homes, so I’m not sure what they call it Flip.  They actually find the victims blood in most of the cases😱 I think it’s on the Roku channel.  They only had one season. I hope there’s more in store. 

[Epeolatrix]

I really wanted to see this because I love the concept of rehabilitating 'murder houses' and the work that goes into it. There's a man named Randall Bell that has been doing this since the late 80s/early 90s, so if this is something you're interested in, there's a lot of articles about him online.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Epeolatrix
corrections

[SunnyBeBe]

27 minutes ago, Epeolatrix said:

I really wanted to see this because I love the concept of rehabilitating 'murder houses' and the work that goes into it. There's a man named Randall Bell that has been doing this since the late 80s/early 90s, so if this is something you're interested in, there's a lot of articles about him online.

Tks!  I think all of the featured homes were in CA.  I was also interested in the total redo of the Sharon Tate house.  It sounds a little morbid, but I find it fascinating.  Most of the homeowners say they bought the home knowing of the crime, but couldn’t resist due to the good price.  

Edited June 10, 2021 by SunnyBeBe

[Epeolatrix]

Well, it's a fascinating idea. Almost always, the main problem with a murder house is what remains after a physical cleaning. How does one erase an invisible death stain for those who live there? Can you minimize the house's reputation by making minor changes to the exterior of the house? What if your house becomes a tourist attraction? Fixing all this seems like such an interesting challenge to me.

[Persnickety1]

I watched "Broken Harts" on Discovery+ a couple of nights ago.  I distinctly remember when this happened and initially it was thought it was a tragic accident.  As more details started to come up, I stopped following the case as it made me physically sick.  

This documentary was better than I expected.  

May those poor children rest in peace after the apparent nightmare existence they had on this earth.  

 

[Schnickelfritz]

On 6/9/2021 at 12:18 PM, auntjess said:

Does anyone else watch the To Catch a Smuggler shows, plain (US), and several other countries.

Absolutely!!! The best (IMHO) is Colombia. Maybe I just love how they pronounce Coke-Eye-Eena. They don't play down there.

Wish they would show Border Security: Australia. The things people try to sneak into the country is mind boggling.

[auntjess]

On 6/11/2021 at 5:03 PM, Schnickelfritz said:

On 6/9/2021 at 1:18 PM, auntjess said:

Does anyone else watch the To Catch a Smuggler shows, plain (US), and several other countries.

Absolutely!!! The best (IMHO) is Colombia. Maybe I just love how they pronounce Coke-Eye-Eena. They don't play down there.

I'll look for the Australian show.  I like Colombia, but my favorite is Brazil, because I love the tall immigration guy, who seems nicer than a lot of the others.
I haven't seen Colombia recently, but they're showing Peru again.
The Rome is my least favorite, the stuffy guy in charge, and I guess I don't understand the concept of the EU, because an Italian guy came back from a quick trip to Paris, and he got all kinds of grief over what he spent at a pricey leather goods store. I thought it would be just as if you bought it in Italy.
The US one, like some not others.  I love cargo searches, though I US should use dogs more in terminals too.
Newark is cool, with all the trucks to search.
Haven't seen Madrid in while, they were good too.

Edited June 15, 2021 by auntjess

[Persnickety1]

Is anyone watching Evil Lives Here:  Shadows of Death?

I was catching up with season 2 yesterday and caught the episode about Gary Green

It was one of the most disturbing episode of this program I've ever seen.  

I also caught up on Paula Zahn's show and watched a recent episode about Tammy Alexander (aka Cali Doe).  I don't like to spoil too much in this thread in case someone hasn't had a chance to watch a program, but I have to say that when (about 40 years later) her half-sister was found and her DNA was confirmed...and then they tracked down Tammy's boyfriend at the time she disappeared and he still had her audiotapes, I almost shed a tear.  After all of these years and hearing the voice to go with that sweet teenaged face was just incredible.  They haven't solved the crime yet, but at least a definitive identification has been made.  Very bittersweet episode.  

(ETA - in the Cali Doe case, it was a tip from an internet user who was perusing missing persons sites and saw the information for Cali Doe and saw the resemblance between her and Tammy Alexander.  Really interesting how all of it unfolded)

Happy Sunday, my fellow posters 🥂

 

Edited June 13, 2021 by Persnickety1

[LexieLily]

If anyone watches Deadly Women, the new season premieres Thursday, 6/17.

[KittyMom4]

On 6/13/2021 at 10:34 AM, Persnickety1 said:

I also caught up on Paula Zahn's show and watched a recent episode about Tammy Alexander (aka Cali Doe).  I don't like to spoil too much in this thread in case someone hasn't had a chance to watch a program, but I have to say that when (about 40 years later) her half-sister was found and her DNA was confirmed...and then they tracked down Tammy's boyfriend at the time she disappeared and he still had her audiotapes, I almost shed a tear.  After all of these years and hearing the voice to go with that sweet teenaged face was just incredible.  They haven't solved the crime yet, but at least a definitive identification has been made.  Very bittersweet episode.  

(ETA - in the Cali Doe case, it was a tip from an internet user who was perusing missing persons sites and saw the information for Cali Doe and saw the resemblance between her and Tammy Alexander.  Really interesting how all of it unfolded)

Happy Sunday, my fellow posters 🥂

I will have to watch this, Tammy was found in my hometown when I was 12, it was so disturbing at the time. My parents knew the farmer who found her body. I was so happy when they finally found out who she was, it was so sad knowing she was all alone and no one seemed to miss her. I hope they are able to find her killer while I'm alive.

[Persnickety1]

2 hours ago, BexKeps said:

I will have to watch this, Tammy was found in my hometown when I was 12, it was so disturbing at the time. My parents knew the farmer who found her body. I was so happy when they finally found out who she was, it was so sad knowing she was all alone and no one seemed to miss her. I hope they are able to find her killer while I'm alive.

It must be so bittersweet for her sister.  

On the one hand, I'm sure she's very grateful she was finally discovered.

On the other hand, I'm sure a part of her would have preferred believing that Tammy had just gone on and made a wonderful life for herself.  

I hope they find her killer, too.  Such a sad story.  Those audiotapes were incredible, though.  She must have been Kevin's first love and those tapes must have meant a great deal to him to hang onto them for all of those decades.  

Such a tragic case with a life cut way too short.  

RIP Tammy

[geekgirl921]

Did anyone watch Web of Lies this past week. I know domestic violence can happen to anyone but sometimes I don't understand how. This young woman was seemed to have so much to offer, I just don't understand how she let this man dictate everything about her life, including what she could wear, who she could talk to, etc.. She was living in Australia but she was from Canada. He actually let her go back to visit family. She was on an entire different continent; I do not understand how she just didn't stay in Canada. I really don't want to blame her, it was extremely sad and it was entirely his fault but it really stuck with me. In a nice bit of poetic justice, one of the cameras that he had set up to spy on her was what proved that he was lying about what happened. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Yeah, it is difficult to understand why people stay with someone who is abusive, controlling, etc.,  I’ve read about how it works.  I didn’t see that episode of Web Of Lies, but I’ll offer this.  My ex was a total narcissistic jerk, mean, etc.  I finally left but the reason I hung in there for the time I did is that for an entire year my fiancé was so great. He was kind, loving, thoughtful and I was thrilled!  I had no idea that he was pretending to be a nice person.  Once he felt my love was unconditional, he became a total jerk.  So, I kept wondering when the good guy would return.....only, there was no real good guy.  He was rotten to the core.  So, I ended it.  I never was totally controlled my him, though he made my life miserable for a few years.  So, I kind of understand when someone gets scammed by a manipulator. There are usually times they will be nice and try to make you happy.  You yearn for those times.

Edited June 15, 2021 by SunnyBeBe

[Annber03]

Yeah, I saw that episode, too, and I think this guy just seemed to tap into some sort of vulnerability/insecurity that this woman was dealing with. I seem to remember something in the episode abut her always wanting to be around people and whatnot, and that, combined with the fact she was in a new country, far away from her family and friends, probably made it a lot easier for that creep to zero in on her and take advantage of that. 

And it's so frustrating, too, because she was so close to getting away for good, and going back home. And then...that tragic ending :(. 

2 hours ago, geekgirl921 said:

In a nice bit of poetic justice, one of the cameras that he had set up to spy on her was what proved that he was lying about what happened. 

I liked that, too. The video itself was horrifying to see, but yeah I'm glad that his creepy scheme wound up backfiring so spectacularly on him like that. 

[nokat]

13 hours ago, geekgirl921 said:

Did anyone watch Web of Lies this past week. I know domestic violence can happen to anyone but sometimes I don't understand how. This young woman was seemed to have so much to offer, I just don't understand how she let this man dictate everything about her life, including what she could wear, who she could talk to, etc.. She was living in Australia but she was from Canada. He actually let her go back to visit family. She was on an entire different continent; I do not understand how she just didn't stay in Canada. I really don't want to blame her, it was extremely sad and it was entirely his fault but it really stuck with me. In a nice bit of poetic justice, one of the cameras that he had set up to spy on her was what proved that he was lying about what happened. 

I still don't fully understand, but I saw it in action with a friend. She had a loving family, but this guy started isolating her and hated all of her friends, so she stopped hanging out with us. It can be a slow process and you don't realize it I guess.

[nokat]

12 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I didn’t see that episode of Web Of Lies, but I’ll offer this.  My ex was a total narcissistic jerk, mean, etc.  I finally left but the reason I hung in there for the time I did is that for an entire year my fiancé was so great.

Yes, I've heard this too, they are so attentive and loving until they've hooked you. I've found that anyone who is just too nice can be rotten at the core. I don't mean nice people, but there's one who try too hard. 

[geekgirl921]

16 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Yeah, I saw that episode, too, and I think this guy just seemed to tap into some sort of vulnerability/insecurity that this woman was dealing with. I seem to remember something in the episode abut her always wanting to be around people and whatnot, and that, combined with the fact she was in a new country, far away from her family and friends, probably made it a lot easier for that creep to zero in on her and take advantage of that. 

And it's so frustrating, too, because she was so close to getting away for good, and going back home. And then...that tragic ending :(. 

I liked that, too. The video itself was horrifying to see, but yeah I'm glad that his creepy scheme wound up backfiring so spectacularly on him like that. 

Yes, I think too many people have a fear of being alone, thinking being in a bad relationship is better than being alone. I have been alone for a long time, trust me, it's much better than putting up with manipulation and abuse!

[Annber03]

Speaking of "Web of Lies", last night's episode, with the teacher preying on students, was pretty damn infuriating. How many chances can that guy get? 

I loved Zoey and her mom fighting back as they did, though I hate that they had to face a lot of nasty comments from people who would've rather believed the teacher over them (not surprising that happens, mind, but it doesn't make it any less horrible). I hope some of them happen to come across this episode, maybe it'll shut them up a bit. I loved Zoey just flat out calling out her town for refusing to see the truth at one point. She had no patience with or sympathy for their ignorance and it was awesome. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Is anyone watching Court TV?  I just posted a comment on that thread. I became intrigued with the jury sentence recommendation hearing today for Chris Martin in KY.   They  also have the trial of Robert Durst in the Bermon murder case.  

[kathyk24]

Oxygen is airing the Peacock documentary on John Wayne Gacy. It is horrifying I wonder how many people would be alive if the police took missing persons report seriously.

[CrazyInAlabama]

The same thing happened with Jeffrey Dahmer.   One victim escaped him, and the police thought it was a domestic issue, and dragged the kid back and left him with Dahmer.   

[SunnyBeBe]

19 hours ago, kathyk24 said:

Oxygen is airing the Peacock documentary on John Wayne Gacy. It is horrifying I wonder how many people would be alive if the police took missing persons report seriously.

I get so frustrated when I see current reports that when family members report a missing loved one they are dismissed as just someone who left on their own accord and will likely return soon. Don’t these agencies receive proper training on how prompt investigation is essential?  It’s so frustrating.  In modern times this is so outdated.  

[CrazyInAlabama]

From watching this type of crime drama show for years, an adult without medical or mental issues can't be forced to return home or contact anyone.    

I still remember the case of the woman who disappeared, and because she had previous mental issues, the police said she left voluntarily, and they claim they could do nothing.   It took a long time to get police looking for her, and that was because she was accused of harassing the boyfriend's new girlfriend.   It turned out the woman had been murdered by the new girlfriend, who staged her own harassment, and arson.   They never found the woman's body.   

https://abcnews.go.com/US/horrific-stalking-case-jealous-lovers-cover-murder/story?id=74431142

 

Edited June 21, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[Andyourlittledog2]

4 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

From watching this type of crime drama show for years, an adult without medical or mental issues can't be forced to return home or contact anyone.    

From shows I've seen the police work on finding the missing person, assuming something may be wrong, and if they find they are okay and 'missing' on purpose and don't want to contact their family or friends then they leave them to it and just report back that the missing person is alive and well and does not wish contact. They don't force them to go back, but they are supposed to find out if they are kidnapped or in an accident or murdered or something like that against their will.

[Andyourlittledog2]

I just watched the Fear Thy Neighbor about the Indiana neighbors with the dogs and the fence etc and I had to come here to say that the neighbor who the episode seemed to determine was 'right' was a total asshole. I mean he and his wife escalated every situation they had. I mean seriously, there is a foot or more gap in the fence the dog can get through, the guy is afraid of the German Shephard, so fix the gap. Simple. But no, it's 'their' newly built fence, they made a foot wide gap apparently on purpose, and they guard it like it was a rare and precious thing. The neighbor tries to block the gap and the idiot announces it is 'his' fence so he takes the wire down. Repeatedly. And they declare this like they are triumphantly defending their inalienable right to have this weird gap in the fence that the dog can get through. And they kidnap the neighbor lady's little dog and call the police to complain about this little bitty dog who wandered onto their lawn one day even though they could have just returned the tiny thing but no, they make a federal case out of it, claim the dog -- which they picked up and carried into their house -- 'bit' the man and therefore tit for tat. 

All in all, just all around jerks. I hated that they were found 'innocent' of the shooting in 'self defense'. Air Force officer shoots eleven rounds into an old man laying on the ground on his own property, a man who had not gotten off one shot at the time. Ugh.

[SunnyBeBe]

Fear The Neighbor often has two sides that are at fault imo.  It’s like you can see the catastrophe coming but they don’t. They can’t see that escalating a neighbor feud is a risky thing.  Then when someone goes postal everybody acts all surprised.  Lol I rarely feel sympathy for the one who is killed.  Often they have tortured the neighbor and provoked the matter, imo.  I don’t think any of the people who are involved ever watch ID Discovery. 😝   I did feel bad for the poor lady who was killed when her neighbor had his viscous dogs attack her.  

[Andyourlittledog2]

It is one of the things I hate about Fear Thy Neighbor, that the bulk of the narrative is told by people on the two sides and the ones who do most of the talking are the ones who didn't get killed. In this particular episode though almost everyone in the talking heads were on the one side and their self righteous smug narrative that they were mostly faultless and the neighbor was a horrible human being was just intolerable to me. Especially since they did so much to provoke the man intentionally and made no compromises to keep the peace at all. And then to kidnap that little dog simply for spite?  They were awful awful people and it pains me to know that they learned nothing and suffered no consequences for killing that man. Eleven rounds in rapid succession while he lay on the ground. That is not self defense once you get that far. The old man was at fault too, absolutely, but the army officer and his wife were just assholes the whole time and could have handled it much better and also not killed him. They just did not come off any where near as well as they think they did.

Edited June 21, 2021 by Andyourlittledog2

[auntjess]

Man claims to have solved the Zodiac Killer code.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/22/world/europe/france-zodiac-killer-cipher.html?smid=fb-share&fbclid=IwAR0t9Y7-UCoZr9Wj1sjhO7LtomgzbJaZ3n3BnY9L5Y8NJYTEH1MLnzVYdXc

New York Times

By Constant Méheut
June 22, 2021
Updated 3:01 p.m. ET
Lire en français
ARGENTEUIL, France — Fayçal Ziraoui loves a good challenge. As a teenager, he designed 3-D animations. In 2018, he completed an Ironman race. More recently, he developed virtual reality software that allows people to experience life in a space capsule.

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“I’ve never set limits on what I can learn,” Mr. Ziraoui, a 38-year-old French-Moroccan business consultant, said in an interview at his home in the Paris suburb of Argenteuil.

And so, when Mr. Ziraoui stumbled across an article in a French magazine in December saying that no one had ever solved two ciphers attributed to the Zodiac killer, who terrorized the San Francisco Bay Area in the 1960s and ’70s, he thought, “Why not me?”

The ciphers had long baffled cryptographers, law enforcement agents and amateur sleuths obsessed with the unidentified serial killer with a penchant for ciphers. Half a century of unsuccessful research had led many to believe that the identity of the Zodiac killer would forever remain a mystery. Numerous sleuths have claimed to have figured out the mystery through various techniques over the decades, but have had their theories debunked.

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But two weeks after embarking on his quest, Mr. Ziraoui said, he had cracked the two remaining ciphers — including one revealing the killer’s identity — by using an encryption key that came to light only in December, and creative code-cracking techniques.

In excitement, he began posting messages and videos online on some of the dozens of forums called things like “The Zodiac Killer — Unsolved & Unforgotten” where tens of thousands of amateur keyboard sleuths track and debate details of one of the most notorious serial murder mysteries in U.S. history — including the two ciphers known as Z32 and Z13.

It didn’t take him long to stir up the large, and now angry, online community devoted to the case.

ImageSome of the post-it notes Mr. Ziraoui made while working on the codes and some of the books he used as reference.
Some of the post-it notes Mr. Ziraoui made while working on the codes and some of the books he used as reference.Credit...James Hill for The New York Times
One of his posts was deleted by a moderator on one site, on others his theories were denounced by people questioning his credibility and findings.

“I don’t believe it for a second,” someone commented on zodiackillersite.com, a popular forum. “When he says that it took two weeks to crack the Z32 and an hour for the Z13, I think that sums it up pretty well.”

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In hindsight, Mr. Ziraoui realized he had been a little tactless, brazenly bursting into a tight-knit community with what he presented as definitive solutions.

“He came in and told them ‘end of the game’,” said Youssef Ziraoui, his brother and a journalist in Morocco. “But these people don’t want the game to end.”

And it remains unclear whether the case — which has for decades consumed police detectives, generated dozens of stranger-than-fiction claims and inspired a blockbuster movie — will ever be solved. The F.B.I. and the San Francisco Police Department, to which Mr. Ziraoui sent his findings, declined to comment, citing the ongoing investigation.

Born and raised in Morocco, Mr. Ziraoui studied in France, where he graduated from École Polytechnique and HEC Paris, the country’s top engineering and business schools, and where he now works as a freelance business consultant.

Mr. Ziraoui initially thought code solving would be a fun activity during the coronavirus lockdown. At the time, he knew nothing about the Zodiac killer, who was suspected of five murders in the late 1960s but who himself boasted of 37 killings.

The killer’s hallmark was a series of four ciphers, using letters of the alphabet and symbols, that he sent to media outlets from July 1969 to April 1970 with warnings, and tantalizingly, a promise of his identity.

A first 408-character cipher, in which the killer said he loved murdering people, was cracked soon after it was sent.

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The French magazine article Mr. Ziraoui read in December said the F.B.I. had acknowledged that a team of three hobbyist cryptologists had solved a second cipher, comprising 340 characters, 51 years later, with a code-breaking program that ran through 650,000 possible solutions before finding the encryption key. But the message provided no clues about the killer’s identity.

That left two unsolved codes, one 32 characters long and a 13-character cipher preceded by the words, “My name is __.”

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Two weeks after embarking on his quest, Mr. Ziraoui said, he had cracked the two remaining ciphers.
Two weeks after embarking on his quest, Mr. Ziraoui said, he had cracked the two remaining ciphers.Credit...James Hill for The New York Times
Many Zodiac enthusiasts consider the remaining ciphers — Z32 and Z13 — unsolvable because they are too short to determine the encryption key. An untold number of solutions could work, they say, rendering verification nearly impossible.

But Mr. Ziraoui said he had a sudden thought. The code-crackers who had solved the 340-character cipher in December had been able to do so by identifying the encryption key, which they had put into the public domain when announcing their breakthrough. What if the killer used that same encryption key for the two remaining ciphers?

So he said he applied it to the 32-character cipher, which the killer had included in a letter as the key to the location of a bomb set to go off at a school in the fall of 1970. (It never did, even though police failed to crack the code.)

That produced a sequence of random letters from the alphabet. Mr. Ziraoui said he then worked through a half-dozen steps including letter-to-number substitutions, identifying coordinates in numbers and using a code-breaking program he created to crunch jumbles of letters into coherent words.

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The work consumed his thoughts, waking him up at night and plunging him into a constant state of anxiety as he learned gruesome details about the murders.

“I was obsessed with it, 24 hours a day, that’s all I could think about,” Mr. Ziraoui said.

After two weeks of intense code-cracking, he deciphered the sentence, “LABOR DAY FIND 45.069 NORT 58.719 WEST.” The message referred to coordinates based on the earth’s magnetic field, not the more familiar geographic coordinates.

The sequence zeroed in on a location near a school in South Lake Tahoe, a city in California referred to in another postcard believed to have been sent by the Zodiac killer in 1971.

An excited Mr. Ziraoui said he immediately turned to Z13, which supposedly revealed the killer’s name, using the same encryption key and various cipher-cracking techniques.

After about an hour, Mr. Ziraoui said he came up with “KAYR,” which he realized resembled the last name of Lawrence Kaye, a salesman and career criminal living in South Lake Tahoe who had been a suspect in the case. Mr. Kaye, who also used the pseudonym Kane, died in 2010.

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Many Zodiac enthusiasts consider the remaining ciphers unsolvable because they are too short to determine the encryption key.
Many Zodiac enthusiasts consider the remaining ciphers unsolvable because they are too short to determine the encryption key.Credit...James Hill for The New York Times
The typo was similar to ones found in previous ciphers, he noticed, likely errors made by the killer when encoding the message. The result that was so close to Mr. Kaye’s name and the South Lake Tahoe location were too much to be a coincidence, he thought.

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Mr. Kaye had been the subject of a report by Harvey Hines, a now-deceased police detective, who was convinced he was the Zodiac killer but was unable to convince his superiors.

Around 2 a.m. on Jan. 3, an exhausted but elated Mr. Ziraoui posted a message entitled “Z13 — My Name is KAYE” on a 50,000-member Reddit forum dedicated to the Zodiac Killer.

The message was deleted within 30 minutes.

“Sorry, I’ve removed this one as part of a sort of general policy against Z13 solution posts,” the forum’s moderator wrote, arguing that the cipher was too short to be solvable. The moderator declined to be interviewed by The New York Times.

Similar dismissive comments were made on other forums. Many of the comments went down arcane, and sometimes nonsensical, rabbit holes; others said Mr. Ziraoui’s methods were too convoluted.

David Oranchak, the leader of the team that cracked the 340-character cipher, said in a written exchange that he was skeptical of Mr. Ziraoui’s solution, noting that “hundreds of proposals for Z13 and Z32 solutions” already exist, and that “it is practically impossible to determine if any of them are correct” because of the brevity of the ciphers. Others had also arrived at Mr. Kaye as a possible suspect through circumstantial evidence.

But David Naccache, a cryptographer and professor at École Normale Supérieure in Paris, and Emmanuel Thomé, a cryptography specialist at France’s National Institute for Research in Digital Science and Technology, said Mr. Ziraoui’s code-cracking methods were sound and should be considered by police investigators.

Another cryptographer, Rémi Géraud, also from the École Normale Supérieure, disagreed, saying Mr. Ziraoui had made arbitrary choices in his work.

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A photograph of the letter Mr. Ziraoui wrote to the F.B.I.
A photograph of the letter Mr. Ziraoui wrote to the F.B.I.Credit...James Hill for The New York Times
Looking back, Mr. Ziraoui said he realized he had “arrived a bit like a bull in a china shop” by openly challenging decades-old theories about the case on the online forums.

Mr. Oranchak said the Zodiac community “forms cliques around preferred suspects,” influencing the way they evaluate code-breaking claims.

“They are usually friendly to people who are cordial when presenting their ideas but once they start acting like they are 100 percent sure they’ve cracked the codes or the case, the community becomes rather hostile,” he said.

Five months after he first posted his solutions online, Mr. Ziraoui has now disappeared from the Zodiac forums. He has stopped responding to comments, saying he did not “have the skills to play” in the charged environment of the online forums.

“My brother would tell me: ‘Bro, what you just did here is pretty much the easy part,’” Mr. Ziraoui said with a smile. “‘Actually, the most difficult thing is to convince people.’”

The Zodiac Killer Case

[SunnyBeBe]

I’ve seen some messed up stuff on tv, but this is most bizarre I have seen, especially on ID Discovery.  Apparently this show is not new but it’s new to me.  One show featured is that of a man who can’t stop collecting and drinking other peoples’s urine!  He develops sneaky ways to collect it from public restrooms!  I wouldn’t recommend this show. 😳

https://corporate.discovery.com/discovery-newsroom/investigation-discoverys-my-strange-criminal-addic/

Edited June 23, 2021 by SunnyBeBe

[MissAlmond]

6 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I’ve seen some messed up stuff on tv, but this is most bizarre I have seen, especially on ID Discovery.  Apparently this show is not new but it’s new to me.  One show featured is 

delete delete delete 

Why did I glance at this forum and find this posting the same day I made lemonade? Yikes!